From unknown Tue Sep 23 10:39:52 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#47425 <47425@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#47425 <47425@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 26.3; `plist-get', `plist-put' should accept a TEST function Reply-To: bug#47425 <47425@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2025 17:39:52 +0000 retitle 47425 26.3; `plist-get', `plist-put' should accept a TEST function reassign 47425 emacs submitter 47425 Drew Adams severity 47425 wishlist thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 26 18:13:56 2021 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Mar 2021 22:13:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42761 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lPuiJ-0000KZ-V5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Mar 2021 18:13:56 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:48472) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lPuiI-0000KS-AQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; 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Fri, 26 Mar 2021 22:13:42 +0000 Received: from SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b8d2:db6d:3e4b:d315]) by SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b8d2:db6d:3e4b:d315%5]) with mapi id 15.20.3977.030; Fri, 26 Mar 2021 22:13:42 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: "bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" Subject: 26.3; `plist-get', `plist-put' should accept a TEST function Thread-Topic: 26.3; `plist-get', `plist-put' should accept a TEST function Thread-Index: AdcijTlucWJyPG/hRjGNffNRatDIDQ== Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 22:13:42 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: gnu.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;gnu.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=oracle.com; x-originating-ip: [73.170.83.28] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: b1316a20-fc58-4815-6d8c-08d8f0a46a9f x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SN6PR10MB2592: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:7219; 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envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=aserp2120.oracle.com X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) Please consider adding a TEST comparer arg for plist keys. In Elisp, a plist key need not be a symbol: (plist-put (list "aaa" 1 "bbb" 2 "ccc" 3) "bbb" 42) That "works" (and no error), but it doesn't do what's expected, since the keys should be compared with `equal' or `string=3D', not `eq'. And if it were not intended that that work then Elisp would raise a wrong-type-argument error saying that the first arg isn't a plist. And note that the Elisp manual says: A "property list" ("plist" for short) is a list of paired elements. Each of the pairs associates a property name (usually a symbol) with a property or value. ^^^^^^^ In GNU Emacs 26.3 (build 1, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2019-08-29 Repository revision: 96dd0196c28bc36779584e47fffcca433c9309cd Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 10.0.19041 Configured using: `configure --without-dbus --host=3Dx86_64-w64-mingw32 --without-compress-install 'CFLAGS=3D-O2 -static -g3'' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 26 18:16:32 2021 Received: (at 47425) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Mar 2021 22:16:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42769 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lPukp-0000PN-FW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Mar 2021 18:16:32 -0400 Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:59664) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lPukn-0000P7-T6 for 47425@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Mar 2021 18:16:30 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 12QMEdWh170040 for <47425@debbugs.gnu.org>; 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Fri, 26 Mar 2021 22:16:20 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Drew Adams , "47425@debbugs.gnu.org" <47425@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: RE: 26.3; `plist-get', `plist-put' should accept a TEST function Thread-Topic: 26.3; `plist-get', `plist-put' should accept a TEST function Thread-Index: AdcijTlucWJyPG/hRjGNffNRatDIDQAAFHdQ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 22:16:20 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [73.170.83.28] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: bd2a90be-9e96-4281-df40-08d8f0a4c876 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SA2PR10MB4812: x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:2582; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: bd2a90be-9e96-4281-df40-08d8f0a4c876 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 26 Mar 2021 22:16:20.1003 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: vrX/bJ/phXj2zYftmaYRXbed7whu3mkRtFqTuafA5sVPlKOMRd6AYyqRw0Mt4cbxDAvv/5sS5t31R//HXeIUQA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SA2PR10MB4812 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6200 definitions=9935 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxlogscore=568 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2103250000 definitions=main-2103260164 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: uOur4a1wlnIg_v1YYXCi1kC12pZEulwl X-Proofpoint-GUID: uOur4a1wlnIg_v1YYXCi1kC12pZEulwl X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6200 definitions=9935 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 priorityscore=1501 suspectscore=0 impostorscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=876 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2103250000 definitions=main-2103260164 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47425 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) That would also mean we wouldn't need `lax-plist-*' functions. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Mar 27 03:18:16 2021 Received: (at 47425) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Mar 2021 07:18:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43321 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lQ3D6-0003Vj-6A for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Mar 2021 03:18:16 -0400 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:51829) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lQ3D3-0003VF-FW for 47425@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Mar 2021 03:18:13 -0400 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:41.202.241.58]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 000000000001E1D1.00000000605EDC2F.0000789B; Sat, 27 Mar 2021 00:18:06 -0700 Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 10:16:35 +0300 From: Jean Louis To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#47425: 26.3; `plist-get', `plist-put' should accept a TEST function Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/2.0.6 (2021-03-06) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47425 Cc: 47425@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) * Drew Adams [2021-03-27 01:15]: > Please consider adding a TEST comparer arg for plist keys. > > In Elisp, a plist key need not be a symbol: > > (plist-put (list "aaa" 1 "bbb" 2 "ccc" 3) "bbb" 42) > > That "works" (and no error), but it doesn't do what's expected, since > the keys should be compared with `equal' or `string=', not `eq'. > > And if it were not intended that that work then Elisp would raise a > wrong-type-argument error saying that the first arg isn't a plist. > > And note that the Elisp manual says: > > A "property list" ("plist" for short) is a list of > paired elements. Each of the pairs associates a > property name (usually a symbol) with a property or value. > ^^^^^^^ That is right, I always had that problem with plist, and still do. Amount of the coping code on my side would become redundant if that would be corrected to have a test function. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Mar 28 09:13:07 2021 Received: (at 47425) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Mar 2021 13:13:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45543 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lQVE2-00025i-Kf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 28 Mar 2021 09:13:07 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:55406) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lQVE1-00024o-1f for 47425@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 28 Mar 2021 09:13:05 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=usDOo5WvOaWSkqG3tyDkXER53pGrTTmDV8lv4vmPWo8=; b=b/z7xZLjb9XxBgtTE3DKGfDKkk fLNMl9fNhRmbsU9CT12rhqo6GMkyFFjr0ISCa30ry2p1C2WpQkl9wCqKWfM/tb6/TtjrNpTmnTb7x xyBq6qhh4Qxi1hpJoyYjg//0QY3SB7ItTw4kBpmAFJFx/aRHHxw5mWNLDg3LIpfiWvi4=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lQVDd-0002A7-Sk; Sun, 28 Mar 2021 15:12:52 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#47425: 26.3; `plist-get', `plist-put' should accept a TEST function References: X-Now-Playing: Bobbie Gentry's _The Girl From Chickasaw County (5): Touch 'Em With Love_: "Spinning Wheel" Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2021 15:12:40 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Fri, 26 Mar 2021 22:13:42 +0000") Message-ID: <87v99b5smv.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Drew Adams writes: > Please consider adding a TEST comparer arg for plist keys. > > In Elisp, a plist key need not be a symbol: > > (plist-put (list "aaa" 1 "bbb" 2 "ccc" 3) "bbb" 42) > > That "works" (and no error), bu [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47425 Cc: Nicolas Petton , 47425@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Drew Adams writes: > Please consider adding a TEST comparer arg for plist keys. > > In Elisp, a plist key need not be a symbol: > > (plist-put (list "aaa" 1 "bbb" 2 "ccc" 3) "bbb" 42) > > That "works" (and no error), but it doesn't do what's expected, since > the keys should be compared with `equal' or `string=', not `eq'. plist-put doesn't ensure that the operation makes sense here, no, but we can't really add that at this point, either. I think adding a comparison function makes sense, but on the other hand -- we seem to be moving towards using map.el more for these things now, so I'm not sure there's much enthusiasm for that. On the other hand, the generic map functions have the problem that they... can't really be used like plist-put. Sure (map-put! (list 'a 1) 'b 2) works fine, but you can't create a plist that way, which makes these functions barely usable at all for handling plists/alists: (map-put! nil 'b 2) will signal an error. So does anybody have an opinion here? I think I'm in favour of adding a comparison function for all three `plist-*' functions. Drew Adams writes: > That would also mean we wouldn't need `lax-plist-*' functions. Yes, those are horrible functions, and are barely used anywhere. (And `lax-plist-member' is missing.) -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Mar 28 12:43:31 2021 Received: (at 47425) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Mar 2021 16:43:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46916 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lQYVf-0001JA-4J for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 28 Mar 2021 12:43:31 -0400 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:37192) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lQYVc-0001Iw-UK for 47425@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 28 Mar 2021 12:43:29 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 12SGgDnx166116; Sun, 28 Mar 2021 16:43:23 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; 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Sun, 28 Mar 2021 16:43:20 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: RE: [External] : Re: bug#47425: 26.3; `plist-get', `plist-put' should accept a TEST function Thread-Topic: [External] : Re: bug#47425: 26.3; `plist-get', `plist-put' should accept a TEST function Thread-Index: AdcijTlucWJyPG/hRjGNffNRatDIDQBRt8hDAAc8CLA= Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2021 16:43:19 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87v99b5smv.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: <87v99b5smv.fsf@gnus.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: gnus.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;gnus.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=oracle.com; x-originating-ip: [73.170.83.28] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 87bd9f86-4a89-4bf5-dd6b-08d8f2089834 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SA2PR10MB4507: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: TsPoJsBjfcAlhpB3oVm1Bt+geIytVdJHZ/nah458drycf1IDkTiwfSFUXADH2CoGhBvvwLjNMqWHROx7RPEpGQxrcUjwINby9hUXOJOW6/J0QmAPISEo+BpDskwTYhVNkURLGV83UVZ1of96qYS3wdVouS622+/qx+5MllbfDBdsnFbSaxocilCYD1Dzwtq0LlNFHhrOEg5fs1Bv0JfrUq5ERxiUG6x5zLSuE8FEVilO0WEXDSHdKE0ygpM5QTwegldePBz4cO3pDwuyER6e3O2ZLmAfWEP+PpQT7KTss3UTiihXTV7d5qcNiombRcvmtl1oR5br7Pg5mx2RoLr59LTVkvbm2Ojaz+pHxZN5z4gikwDbDhkQcGD1lH/RpQ8vmz9KjahiXroXAvhzGxkG4EzaIQH6TTta9WemXUupBPfA8RaDTnKIV+sPpeJ0hdBOWNWCZP7WteN78Lhuxf4wckrC9nvWH1YxQf3zBdHpwe3RM5AkFPHXUXiAHpUSLZkA0Q5uU4miNz2BmsRwPWCEGRNLprBvXyrNgFnELAhT9P8aHsyAXQVsHQExprDJTI7QMzYCAb32W8A9f7GSJ/RDcXJGBbhbSZhbmVEL2nXvFGVf422Gs6y/19g9zZsM+lmZAeC5R03ztuFfwWiapTtHLvQchKdVLrwlkXxqq2AKSdq0/UYjxTgwSftym17bMBlZ x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 87bd9f86-4a89-4bf5-dd6b-08d8f2089834 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 28 Mar 2021 16:43:19.8673 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: rXGE6WbN+e8TcCHMRmyFGLAngWOClN1fhjp9oTUO4XfD3wVjTUvj/8/9E355mkKzQX+u/SSpvAO4agb4lQy7tQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SA2PR10MB4507 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6200 definitions=9937 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=600 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 bulkscore=0 phishscore=0 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2103250000 definitions=main-2103280127 X-Proofpoint-GUID: nPNlQ6dnOHNU1asdQIXepxtqKM9NlFtC X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: nPNlQ6dnOHNU1asdQIXepxtqKM9NlFtC X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6200 definitions=9937 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=899 clxscore=1011 priorityscore=1501 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2103250000 definitions=main-2103280126 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47425 Cc: Nicolas Petton , "47425@debbugs.gnu.org" <47425@debbugs.gnu.org>, Stefan Monnier X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > Please consider adding a TEST comparer arg for plist keys. > > > > In Elisp, a plist key need not be a symbol: > > > > (plist-put (list "aaa" 1 "bbb" 2 "ccc" 3) "bbb" 42) > > > > That "works" (and no error), but it doesn't do what's expected, since > > the keys should be compared with `equal' or `string=3D', not `eq'. >=20 > plist-put doesn't ensure that the operation makes sense here, no, but we > can't really add that at this point, either. Please elaborate. I don't know what you're saying, or why. > I think adding a comparison function makes sense, but on the other > hand -- we seem to be moving towards using map.el more for these things > now, so I'm not sure there's much enthusiasm for that. On the other > hand, the generic map functions have the problem that they... can't > really be used like plist-put. No. Please do _not_ bring generic mapping into this. This is a legitimate issue about plists and plist functions. > So does anybody have an opinion here? I think I'm in favour of adding a > comparison function for all three `plist-*' functions. +1.=20 > > That would also mean we wouldn't need `lax-plist-*' functions. >=20 > Yes, those are horrible functions, and are barely used anywhere. (And > `lax-plist-member' is missing.) Agreed. But their existence is an argument that the intention was to provide for the use of `equal' as an alternative test pred to `eq'. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Mar 28 15:21:03 2021 Received: (at 47425) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Mar 2021 19:21:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47064 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lQay7-0007F7-Bw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 28 Mar 2021 15:21:03 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-f49.google.com ([209.85.128.49]:34432) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lQay5-0007EJ-Be for 47425@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 28 Mar 2021 15:21:01 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-f49.google.com with SMTP id n11-20020a05600c4f8bb029010e5cf86347so7687705wmq.1 for <47425@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 28 Mar 2021 12:21:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=/0payXT+8omsvufYvYLQ+vWx2q5TZ4EPPQgZW/N9KS4=; b=LQ1U3Ns6m841y9P2wfm90aruKi02cEy6bklvzj1yxxAHJnot0CBf6CCbYKV22kL67S jUsU/sk6CMTk9D3Unu+uOaW9W8l42CCOWQSgFHVo9QfQdNXg3rTbUvHigyxDvl2ecykx KwWppa+o0HBIxSRXsV9mK8iudUJUX/N7pzQX59luUrl2B1SmzBUC6h4Vhk58FE5AdLUy q+X5ix/Ev5j8+UmA7nmAVjJGNWYvmM9Dc3gRr08Zr9mZ7EpgRov04g+U+L5YXeugkWi5 rGPbRW1x0i5VBjZfGfuPU5WFJp3YSKW3Izruh6F2/L2GHY8tw5UmK/5mZNjluFbztHyS iDhQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=/0payXT+8omsvufYvYLQ+vWx2q5TZ4EPPQgZW/N9KS4=; b=W79iQxJSAicOq/iLYvxlnsmBQaVUmYPfoQFE4T2AgxLQ31YZZqgf0TmXKJXyO4uDsj maeqW65KCmClnJLXwRiRViwWI/xkBuAA4pvG2Rtw+3zV762LTVvGBOUe6LDGALVzAAyk zwgxEB1zg5EQdWbQ71vatYuD/yz0oUKDCo8hLn0KltOaS0Wa2mi5qnF8F2WPEOZN6CXP DGc6JNmciKdfLCgP28L25HEB8I+kHikFO8mYtwcuWg8PDbm8m8PVt5pWg0dQ7xYHhGDm lIshFpvQulUi7d9PPdJTVbaWJwDDkPiOmNnzJ3T3Wmoby0lQVVNFSY2SpZxUxn1ykSmC ERkg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531mK0LLNz/3Nv0qFgPq9eL/SW9ft9xxs6/F0MBtQYEA3Q27KKvc rYXLy9y4/T/30CAIo5K3+dM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxSu2Ip2k9Zg7Di+dmZhkZti/y8CwvaXUf9GU6LZsG40i/F6YV5POR2myb0glIW3HGGK5nUBQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:2947:: with SMTP id n7mr22242122wmd.61.1616959255396; Sun, 28 Mar 2021 12:20:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from philipps-macbook-pro.fritz.box (p5b13f5b4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [91.19.245.180]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s3sm21042371wmd.21.2021.03.28.12.20.54 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 28 Mar 2021 12:20:55 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) Subject: Re: bug#47425: 26.3; `plist-get', `plist-put' should accept a TEST function From: Philipp In-Reply-To: <87v99b5smv.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2021 21:20:53 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0EBFBE59-A4C2-4C61-AD1B-A66E8B5F99CF@gmail.com> References: <87v99b5smv.fsf@gnus.org> To: Lars Ingebrigtsen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47425 Cc: Nicolas Petton , 47425@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams , Stefan Monnier X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) > So does anybody have an opinion here? I think I'm in favour of adding = a > comparison function for all three `plist-*' functions. I'm not a fan of this since it would mean that these functions will no = longer be side-effect-free. Adding a function argument to a function means that the function can no = longer really promise anything, so it leads to code that's harder to = reason about.= From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Mar 28 15:27:23 2021 Received: (at 47425) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Mar 2021 19:27:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47072 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lQb4F-0007OO-9d for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 28 Mar 2021 15:27:23 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:58774) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lQb4C-0007OC-VC for 47425@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 28 Mar 2021 15:27:21 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=vGe2DLSdix8ptHM9QRHA3CwDbvJEUF2PSrtEwBaJdpg=; b=IVDHNdWkiFkZM92qcjzLRYYpol L9zxN5/Zu7SzYY9ABXCGMdrg1IS60xM2DgQl04dN+r4w8RMTXRaxCMogpbfZ+z3tYxxXbeuP3rbxQ uRMjECaf3utq1DF+mE/TR+cGuf6skcwcAaaCNaTTKqMl+jLMlSgKnOiwfKhGuMfiJsn8=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lQb42-0005uF-Il; Sun, 28 Mar 2021 21:27:12 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Philipp Subject: Re: bug#47425: 26.3; `plist-get', `plist-put' should accept a TEST function References: <87v99b5smv.fsf@gnus.org> <0EBFBE59-A4C2-4C61-AD1B-A66E8B5F99CF@gmail.com> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAElBMVEWZiHhIIiGqm4uh Uzram1H///8bkq2dAAAAAWJLR0QF+G/pxwAAAAd0SU1FB+UDHBMTKeoPdrEAAAF3SURBVDjLdZKN tYMwCIUx6QChdIA86gBGnECz/0wPUFujlv6cI59www0Ax8CAnIGhSwFaAMKZFKXc5COOb84IIUPX gO4ZYhlL5IGxBQiMTwRMZ5A6QESFsQWqLoJYUKi0+TLVRYnFMT0A1VqlaDoc59C+dQMjc9MpOdBe 1GrkqbJqyEUjTzP3NyAKzfzWs14qpLz6QvpRk9UwbaF/We3sl0ml9zlYI7PHWyZV8Dm8VeC8kogv m5v8C3GQCBKjmLp3IsHxrxHvdQgzy5uBfMFcF3WxbuBQMy/F7XV1KOlrOqHsBWTXuV+SPe9eDfps qxL0rB7TNuBgG5C211Gb0Db4J2dt9lvVcOVuf6cWG9mWYa3wmqRWPj5GuQbYRvodx/2sftxDPOys dLM+4AX2SycQLelr1e4hx0hrnxboAfImLRdwp7yCcgfgB/DVku/cJ1Do41QL3BQ654MtnNz0WkG5 9no4sGit8qW6EDX9HtQ1bEt1u+qhoI1/E69UVoO/kYcAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6Y3JlYXRlADIwMjEt MDMtMjhUMTk6MTk6NDErMDA6MDAa8ZHJAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOm1vZGlmeQAyMDIxLTAzLTI4VDE5 OjE5OjQxKzAwOjAwa6wpdQAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: Miranda Dali's _Miranda Dali_: "Bird" Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2021 21:27:09 +0200 In-Reply-To: <0EBFBE59-A4C2-4C61-AD1B-A66E8B5F99CF@gmail.com> (Philipp's message of "Sun, 28 Mar 2021 21:20:53 +0200") Message-ID: <87v99bnkoi.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Philipp writes: > I'm not a fan of this since it would mean that these functions will no > longer be side-effect-free. Adding a function argument to a function > means that the function can no longer really promise a [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47425 Cc: Nicolas Petton , 47425@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams , Stefan Monnier X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Philipp writes: > I'm not a fan of this since it would mean that these functions will no > longer be side-effect-free. Adding a function argument to a function > means that the function can no longer really promise anything, so it > leads to code that's harder to reason about. `plist-put' already mutates state (of the plist), so it's not side-effect-free... The other ones are, though. But... I'm not sure that's really much of a concern in practice. (And Emacs should be able to reason about the function, still, if the predicate passed in is side effect free, but I guess we don't have the machinery for that in place?) -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 27 06:23:24 2022 Received: (at 47425) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jun 2022 10:23:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49914 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5lts-0000kU-DX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 06:23:24 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:35872) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5lto-0000jt-7J for 47425@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 06:23:21 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=0Uc9CS8mtTwh6te3cSUU8Lj2nbbZegSbJ/LwiNlrRDQ=; b=Qz0e5kpE7SfnrcwrHPb7Yj7exS OQDQOOYySKdcvyUy4VvyqUFMWX1JvrAh4xxD8bXRh0tzPrEmOibkxgjVoTiZXhKAkAUF8bMBm+/yL HKqSwCZuI/VXnVsMlfllRzznTXYrjDfmhmw1obXumLvwu3+G3XRNU9tBee6G50/0xo4I=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o5ltZ-0004nP-6m; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 12:23:07 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Philipp Subject: Re: bug#47425: 26.3; `plist-get', `plist-put' should accept a TEST function References: <87v99b5smv.fsf@gnus.org> <0EBFBE59-A4C2-4C61-AD1B-A66E8B5F99CF@gmail.com> <87v99bnkoi.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 12:22:59 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87v99bnkoi.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sun, 28 Mar 2021 21:27:09 +0200") Message-ID: <87zghy5rss.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: >> I'm not a fan of this since it would mean that these functions will no >> longer be side-effect-free. Adding a function argument to a function >> means that the function can no longer really promis [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47425 Cc: Nicolas Petton , 47425@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams , Stefan Monnier X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: >> I'm not a fan of this since it would mean that these functions will no >> longer be side-effect-free. Adding a function argument to a function >> means that the function can no longer really promise anything, so it >> leads to code that's harder to reason about. > > `plist-put' already mutates state (of the plist), so it's not > side-effect-free... > > The other ones are, though. But... I'm not sure that's really much of > a concern in practice. (And Emacs should be able to reason about the > function, still, if the predicate passed in is side effect free, but I > guess we don't have the machinery for that in place?) We don't. Anyway, that was the only objection here, so I went ahead and made this change in Emacs 29. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 27 06:23:21 2022 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jun 2022 10:23:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49912 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5ltp-0000kF-7J for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 06:23:21 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:35870) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5ltn-0000jr-LB for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 06:23:20 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=dhGej25URcUyVbqmq4M5FL4NvPsI1IKVSAPwf+OiFVI=; b=Wix1wCBz8U5NK4kNKXDV4UQx/F W4qQUJ789CbS3vd8cdUhuMPjav34ssBywZ6N7Z6V9DLF0ddfxKpAKbM9ZJbP6++J9/tNgoY9EGb3l lMUtXqGcGjBaMpD3RQaxeIWEYpfM6iBURnLg5vdRrXoEh7Fn04lZjZxToGEiy5uof1TQ=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o5ltf-0004nZ-Cr for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 12:23:13 +0200 Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 12:23:10 +0200 Message-Id: <87y1xi5rsh.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #47425 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: close 47425 29.1 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) close 47425 29.1 quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 27 07:32:10 2022 Received: (at 47425) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jun 2022 11:32:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50054 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5myQ-0001I6-Dx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 07:32:10 -0400 Received: from mail1470c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.14.70]:34972 helo=mail102c50.megamailservers.eu) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5myN-0001B8-JV for 47425@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 07:32:08 -0400 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1656329520; bh=VABJxIuMXVC6cC7PiBv8/2fSYbiYiS3ueKZUMQB3rrg=; h=From:Subject:Date:Cc:To:From; b=D8fYZfW6HMNE5Dg/+rXyE0w4O/DXrrBlatqXrC8a+ynb8M+svgfOoykbHCAE59vus jrk+CoXpS7BSDjxrqyJXjQlomJdxUpgihlKwgeo/S3ikmaCHZaeMkZ16D2cttfa2XF OTQxaPc/ssNI7CvBNIXsI4ofntMvan1AhuCUjUbs= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from smtpclient.apple (c188-150-171-71.bredband.tele2.se [188.150.171.71]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail102c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 25RBVwuo109196; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 11:31:59 +0000 From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: bug#47425: 26.3; `plist-get', `plist-put' should accept a TEST function Message-Id: <71C43639-B441-4BD1-93A0-C8DDE1389529@acm.org> Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 13:31:57 +0200 To: 47425@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-Origin-Country: SE X-Spam-Score: 1.3 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: > I'm not a fan of this since it would mean that these functions will no longer be side-effect-free. Adding a function argument to a function means that the function can no longer really promise anyth [...] Content analysis details: (1.3 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) -0.0 T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE No description available. 0.3 KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS Relay HELO differs from its IP's reverse DNS X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47425 Cc: Philipp Stephani , Nicolas Petton , Lars Ingebrigtsen , Drew Adams , Stefan Monnier X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) > I'm not a fan of this since it would mean that these functions will no = longer be side-effect-free. Adding a function argument to a function = means that the function can no longer really promise anything, so it = leads to code that's harder to reason about.=20 No fan of it either. A plist is not intended as a general-purpose data = structure; the `eq` key comparison is pretty much built in. The cost of adding an equality predicate is not huge but also not really = motivated. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 27 07:43:48 2022 Received: (at 47425) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jun 2022 11:43:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50074 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5n9g-0001xA-Mp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 07:43:48 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:36664) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5n9e-0001wu-GC for 47425@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 07:43:47 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=67L2ZVkH1OzZCXv3/h+NQdfhSlWmPXfniyYgH28qxTs=; b=QuuCpdLd4KSD0gYFocIOjjGJXL HvY8332Uyaltlz+crcT/6P2/cxTZkRQiTPnP9CjYGsf5HuJp+WwbPIyruWlMz085uS/KAaOlXBukj sIWGbVQ4wYpfTUIrYoPelNbiE1Y77y7txIjIvdmfPNPytyJ45zzrojyp/RWLb8SNWNJU=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o5n9I-0005ZI-Tb; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 13:43:31 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Subject: Re: bug#47425: 26.3; `plist-get', `plist-put' should accept a TEST function References: <71C43639-B441-4BD1-93A0-C8DDE1389529@acm.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAGFBMVEUcGiJcGBGlTBzU lEU9SUUNDAu6sZ/////py3SQAAAAAWJLR0QHFmGI6wAAAAd0SU1FB+YGGwsqEpQWJYAAAAGpSURB VDjLdZTPboMwDMbNlOxMkHqnrfYC68Q5Ym7ProTv0/7k/R9hnwOMhG2WWgX/6s+ObUpE1IST2fn5 Mlt+ogy6Y4dz4T928McxwDbwjGMwwOMxWMD5stoJDnIcH+aAwo4hAPCIyFCaPc3JIYUf4bNEGHDE Bnqv2chB4lRE9KQqEVSY3QxcBgdzRYthjpZziQgARFkMZRbJAYTnNNMeTHFOP0UqkodW5foDuhqY kkMNjispmQB44DjRBloDojqOA78w1xHqp9c0pPSJC27gHnrVR/Ond45cgif1j+kyDGkv1Yuf0hkR /Q606vX2ARDZ7VsCrY9wI963BHdGwOfvJsJuKb3ZQLrQNhWQlL6s74j4AS0pWcjV+l5V1eZBOa8i LpTAo14hJutuqNueO85eiDagALgIfGwbtOXw4WCbACm2720espRLeYNKqWYFNvicdM1hwAvKFQPt No8Mlp2TPTAtsl1ZAS1AsNYVQLn3DMRdWaDW1FWJnRmZm7VcOmjTVe/gCrzeT3+CuaTC7u0/QGWV +hvIb6C1lGAkskwuA7Vbzb0LzfLv8A21O7AgBjMOmgAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpjcmVhdGUAMjAyMi0w Ni0yN1QxMTo0MjoxOCswMDowMJ0lGWYAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5ADIwMjItMDYtMjdUMTE6 NDI6MTgrMDA6MDDseKHaAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Joni Mitchell's _Turbulent Indigo_: "Sunny Sunday" Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 13:43:23 +0200 In-Reply-To: <71C43639-B441-4BD1-93A0-C8DDE1389529@acm.org> ("Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd=22's?= message of "Mon, 27 Jun 2022 13:31:57 +0200") Message-ID: <87edzawcv8.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Mattias EngdegĂ„rd writes: > The cost of adding an equality predicate is not huge but also not > really motivated. The motivation is greater symmetry with assoc and friends. That is, people have been forced to use alists where they'd more naturally prefer to use plists because of the eq restriction. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47425 Cc: Philipp Stephani , Nicolas Petton , 47425@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams , Stefan Monnier X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd writes: > The cost of adding an equality predicate is not huge but also not > really motivated. The motivation is greater symmetry with assoc and friends. That is, people have been forced to use alists where they'd more naturally prefer to use plists because of the eq restriction. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 27 08:18:20 2022 Received: (at 47425) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jun 2022 12:18:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50192 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5nh6-00059q-Fo for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 08:18:20 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:37852) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5nh1-00059V-4N for 47425@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 08:18:18 -0400 Received: from pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 35CA7100169; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 08:18:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id D3E39100121; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 08:18:07 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1656332287; bh=r9Jl0P2UDWR94MlIUhjxsdECW4ez06ADLpL0FuxT3/I=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=hCJ4ELkLrDnFzqTvu3YeD2OiZE3TcmJ3fLyeHalXip5HWgSKwCjFuElQkZ/9zIkF2 /9C/K5NAM/EueYTBIcXAZAn+ojF/WVJCaz5W5W0v2n5MhSLdTbKY0lTl9x8dsAHQ7d gsnOFkleXALngX36/QD/XaIuGSACQq1LlytTefP4jW/UQroRbdFtXlUNCiCh+OSbLx mIsQgUbg7jKgQZ3DKr5zGObicaTUQM6u2Zx0JaGmoBKMSmz9atr/uCo9M5STAEgdZM 8p844xORO3NppexagtAZoEj+ykvSvp6PuK74I7fKvLp9vR9tVHoNLvBil3s/3Sio8t Y1ZCnZXdQB+tQ== Received: from alfajor (smb-adp04.hotspot.hub-one.net [213.174.99.154]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A04E012029D; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 08:18:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#47425: 26.3; `plist-get', `plist-put' should accept a TEST function Message-ID: References: <71C43639-B441-4BD1-93A0-C8DDE1389529@acm.org> <87edzawcv8.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 08:18:04 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87edzawcv8.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Mon, 27 Jun 2022 13:43:23 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL -0.106 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE -0.01 - X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47425 Cc: Mattias =?windows-1252?Q?Engdeg=E5rd?= , Philipp Stephani , Nicolas Petton , 47425@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Lars Ingebrigtsen [2022-06-27 13:43:23] wrote: > Mattias Engdeg=E5rd writes: >> The cost of adding an equality predicate is not huge but also not >> really motivated. > The motivation is greater symmetry with assoc and friends. That is, > people have been forced to use alists where they'd more naturally prefer > to use plists because of the eq restriction. Then again, plists should never have existed, in my book. They're just strictly worse than alists as datastructures. Their only advantage is that sometimes when you write them by hand it they're somewhat more compact (fewer dots and parentheses) but for those cases `eq` is always good enough in my experience. I'd be curious to hear of a use case where plists are better than alists while at the same time requiring a non-eq comparison. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 27 08:28:02 2022 Received: (at 47425) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jun 2022 12:28:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50218 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5nqU-0005Qw-9X for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 08:28:02 -0400 Received: from mail212c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.10.222]:42628 helo=mail194c50.megamailservers.eu) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5nqS-0005QN-Ae for 47425@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 08:28:01 -0400 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1656332873; bh=GzhXXZYhLXYowm2GqYEUTwEDV9NNQbMaQLQJ20OmKHU=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=ddc+pBXPULfu46+UjbAyKLNdWg3mg5F80EeiOhg3EmoiIWgWWvBUWZJbIsrJxGzQZ xZPg0b5gizOIWAJYHNQ/VprlFiMg/uUJRlVvIIdsOWYyG894rUSjjmFh7YxLed77qv PSkcg1GKVrgj1Bt8FMc553Kuc5296swy4kxkzFSA= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from smtpclient.apple (c188-150-171-71.bredband.tele2.se [188.150.171.71]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail194c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 25RCRoYd010573; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 12:27:52 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: Re: bug#47425: 26.3; `plist-get', `plist-put' should accept a TEST function From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 14:27:50 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6BBB5BB7-3552-4A98-AED5-96EF3B688B4E@acm.org> References: <71C43639-B441-4BD1-93A0-C8DDE1389529@acm.org> <87edzawcv8.fsf@gnus.org> To: Stefan Monnier X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-Origin-Country: SE X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47425 Cc: Philipp Stephani , Lars Ingebrigtsen , Nicolas Petton , 47425@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) 27 juni 2022 kl. 14.18 skrev Stefan Monnier : > Then again, plists should never have existed, in my book. > They're just strictly worse than alists as datastructures. Indeed. For example, key-value pairs cannot be shared between different = plists, and getting the nth key takes twice as long. There should be no reason to promote or expand the use of plists. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 27 08:42:06 2022 Received: (at 47425) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jun 2022 12:42:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50261 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5o45-00080Z-TK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 08:42:06 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:37242) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5o42-000802-8U for 47425@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 08:42:04 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=gzLh9H/2+BYJz7clhGkjQRV0D/f0rSGklzoNGAOWMZ8=; b=ftfpDMKs0XUgtIHTgxStVsZTq2 sm+/tQgKy1MRw+Um7Hw05KcQQ7QL5pOPmCiyj1cVWMoKooVTxc9YTrj5xkmGpzDQDQamsiNPpVWJm 3jS31VS1Z6S0wiGHN2SYT+p+P3D2VVaryfE/3QK7YKCzAC74tIe21E1NVQqvefEFvDxE=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o5o3l-00068G-Ps; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 14:41:48 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Monnier Subject: Re: bug#47425: 26.3; `plist-get', `plist-put' should accept a TEST function References: <71C43639-B441-4BD1-93A0-C8DDE1389529@acm.org> <87edzawcv8.fsf@gnus.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAElBMVEXr3am8p4qbeFpj P2ikWpr///8CVxArAAAAAWJLR0QF+G/pxwAAAAlwSFlzAAAuIwAALiMBeKU/dgAAAAd0SU1FB+YG GwwoJoLbpTIAAAGHSURBVDjLbZThgYMwCIUTvQE0LmCSBaowQO/C/jPdA7VJtPxR+cKDAK1zl/kE m9zDzJ/S+vTHGRYeMSEGDQC5B/hMsH2+hQxrYBEBCbEDaSaBZy4UOy0fA/9aJG1h7ZSyHG9LrxU8 v88jvVYKfBUDrSbFukBpRqRprW0KpM6TI+dGasGsKfKeAX4o1uxL0hREBcBTos/liRSgJ7t9lNeV m1gPLUSbAqELLIX10AFGFi5nABMLTYt2d0OAUDnqGoVZCuTM0OQim4GsQC4/zhQph5KBYn4hDWDT GhknMCRg1TEgL1M6QaEKrG6+AcQKWuBQ5wlOKbj3dFxcP2oEwNlf/mMDxR5Su5hjJkt6GIU4feak QK9gF/pMyq85ozakIP71RJ/N9jHP6wLEOqmhgiFi3N7AZiOsQMvIADYiij0Y9iWS+wJ0gi/XSSH5 27bT+BO4tB/bG+7gWuvQ5Gh+E41UCHX3rKpUQePHDlfA38GQughKsYImR3uPRF259Q8l5abcIYW2 xof9AwibZqK8bpu/AAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIyLTA2LTI3VDEyOjQwOjM4KzAwOjAw Zj+i6AAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMi0wNi0yN1QxMjo0MDozOCswMDowMBdiGlQAAAAA SUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Thee Oh Sees's _Help_: "Destroyed Fortress Reappears" Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 14:41:44 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Mon, 27 Jun 2022 08:18:04 -0400") Message-ID: <874k06wa5z.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Monnier writes: > I'd be curious to hear of a use case where plists are better than alists > while at the same time requiring a non-eq comparison. They're equivalent in features, yes, but people prefer plists for simple structures because they look nicer. I'd say they've proven their popularity over half a century. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47425 Cc: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= , Philipp Stephani , Nicolas Petton , 47425@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Stefan Monnier writes: > I'd be curious to hear of a use case where plists are better than alists > while at the same time requiring a non-eq comparison. They're equivalent in features, yes, but people prefer plists for simple structures because they look nicer. I'd say they've proven their popularity over half a century. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 27 08:44:37 2022 Received: (at 47425) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jun 2022 12:44:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50265 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5o6X-000845-Bw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 08:44:37 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:37270) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5o6V-00083s-HW for 47425@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 08:44:36 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=0cgz5ReQIT0Yemn47yFFlP91sBYC8mrx0AfeVPomRkw=; b=hQAMqXyY3HxiPdbPYsL6QcRiAW L+cmDEMwsvtYw3pmBk516qO7Q8HYW+M6QSjTcBXIHFmZgaCT3zR5FaO75Su91FbHh8WHXHMLzDwNN Kq4l/xTLSby7OQK8SqCHH9FqOZIM+IUP64dWhSwG11TXw+B2jZ7/hU9Wk0vKIVuFILcw=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o5o6H-0006Be-7E; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 14:44:23 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Subject: Re: bug#47425: 26.3; `plist-get', `plist-put' should accept a TEST function References: <71C43639-B441-4BD1-93A0-C8DDE1389529@acm.org> <87edzawcv8.fsf@gnus.org> <6BBB5BB7-3552-4A98-AED5-96EF3B688B4E@acm.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAElBMVEXr3am8p4qbeFpj P2ikWpr///8CVxArAAAAAWJLR0QF+G/pxwAAAAlwSFlzAAAuIwAALiMBeKU/dgAAAAd0SU1FB+YG GwwoJoLbpTIAAAGHSURBVDjLbZThgYMwCIUTvQE0LmCSBaowQO/C/jPdA7VJtPxR+cKDAK1zl/kE m9zDzJ/S+vTHGRYeMSEGDQC5B/hMsH2+hQxrYBEBCbEDaSaBZy4UOy0fA/9aJG1h7ZSyHG9LrxU8 v88jvVYKfBUDrSbFukBpRqRprW0KpM6TI+dGasGsKfKeAX4o1uxL0hREBcBTos/liRSgJ7t9lNeV m1gPLUSbAqELLIX10AFGFi5nABMLTYt2d0OAUDnqGoVZCuTM0OQim4GsQC4/zhQph5KBYn4hDWDT GhknMCRg1TEgL1M6QaEKrG6+AcQKWuBQ5wlOKbj3dFxcP2oEwNlf/mMDxR5Su5hjJkt6GIU4feak QK9gF/pMyq85ozakIP71RJ/N9jHP6wLEOqmhgiFi3N7AZiOsQMvIADYiij0Y9iWS+wJ0gi/XSSH5 27bT+BO4tB/bG+7gWuvQ5Gh+E41UCHX3rKpUQePHDlfA38GQughKsYImR3uPRF259Q8l5abcIYW2 xof9AwibZqK8bpu/AAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIyLTA2LTI3VDEyOjQwOjM4KzAwOjAw Zj+i6AAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMi0wNi0yN1QxMjo0MDozOCswMDowMBdiGlQAAAAA SUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Thee Oh Sees's _Help_: "Destroyed Fortress Reappears" Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 14:44:18 +0200 In-Reply-To: <6BBB5BB7-3552-4A98-AED5-96EF3B688B4E@acm.org> ("Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd=22's?= message of "Mon, 27 Jun 2022 14:27:50 +0200") Message-ID: <87zghyuvh9.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Mattias EngdegĂ„rd writes: > Indeed. For example, key-value pairs cannot be shared between > different plists, and getting the nth key takes twice as long. > There should be no reason to promote or expand the use of plists. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47425 Cc: Philipp Stephani , Nicolas Petton , Stefan Monnier , Drew Adams , 47425@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd writes: > Indeed. For example, key-value pairs cannot be shared between > different plists, and getting the nth key takes twice as long. > There should be no reason to promote or expand the use of plists. If you say "I want the nth", then, yes, it takes longer. But nobody does that with a plist or an alist -- they say "give me the value of key", and that's an identical number of operations on a plist as on an alist. (Plist is car for eq, cdr + cdr for traversal, while alist is car + car for eq, cdr for traversal.) --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 27 09:28:31 2022 Received: (at 47425) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jun 2022 13:28:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50321 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5on1-0000iI-GF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 09:28:31 -0400 Received: from mail1475c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.14.75]:58294 helo=mail118c50.megamailservers.eu) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5omx-0000i0-Gs for 47425@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 09:28:30 -0400 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1656336500; bh=VdxgYB0ruzeiUcoZ2U3yzf2mXdlJLolP3LdVHbzd01s=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=ZkSNvsbJ5hF94hvdNYImded0nUg+rCJp9eXvv81OLJXqdC1t5f6In8QamSyg2DFK5 rgGA8Ay72lUiLWZtZY8WeKI+5F6uRK9xNU2D1DgSQboWMz7d4e3IehIR7UL1xUV5On l0x+31+P8XY2MAEy+ugF840ze+3/kwnXKFSNBoqY= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from smtpclient.apple (c188-150-171-71.bredband.tele2.se [188.150.171.71]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail118c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 25RDSIb4038725; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 13:28:19 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: Re: bug#47425: 26.3; `plist-get', `plist-put' should accept a TEST function From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <87zghyuvh9.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 15:28:17 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <71C43639-B441-4BD1-93A0-C8DDE1389529@acm.org> <87edzawcv8.fsf@gnus.org> <6BBB5BB7-3552-4A98-AED5-96EF3B688B4E@acm.org> <87zghyuvh9.fsf@gnus.org> To: Lars Ingebrigtsen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-Origin-Country: SE X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47425 Cc: Philipp Stephani , Nicolas Petton , Stefan Monnier , Drew Adams , 47425@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) 27 juni 2022 kl. 14.44 skrev Lars Ingebrigtsen : > If you say "I want the nth", then, yes, it takes longer. But nobody > does that with a plist or an alist 'Nobody' is too strong (done it a few times) but yes, it's not a common = operation. But the point is that alists has several more advantages: counting = number of keys is twice as fast, iterating and/or transform the = collection easily done with mapcar, mapcan, dolist, mapc etc. Plists = have no real advantage from their structure. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 27 09:35:50 2022 Received: (at 47425) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jun 2022 13:35:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50331 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5ou6-0000vY-J7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 09:35:50 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:37734) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5ou1-0000vH-5p for 47425@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 09:35:48 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=ZVthypUnxEauYdZM7l7BlUzff75JoTT4v8Z7CoK8DHA=; b=ombJwME+YDumkj6zIN0qayhVgU nfvw5qYEb99C7YyC5ESRh3hJOvq3ROE8Wy56prP7YDKIZ435ghsfqKOSQWSdlacCTY40mOKPavCgq KOSVhfIQ5mNFjjbDZH4XOFdIe2A5WvvD2SHchRNTi8eBBP2mH1PDU3T0tKL5aMZlisUo=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o5otl-0006a2-B7; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 15:35:31 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Subject: Re: bug#47425: 26.3; `plist-get', `plist-put' should accept a TEST function References: <71C43639-B441-4BD1-93A0-C8DDE1389529@acm.org> <87edzawcv8.fsf@gnus.org> <6BBB5BB7-3552-4A98-AED5-96EF3B688B4E@acm.org> <87zghyuvh9.fsf@gnus.org> X-Now-Playing: Hercules & Love Affair's _Omnion: The Album_: "Controller (featuring Faris Badwan)" Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 15:35:27 +0200 In-Reply-To: ("Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd=22's?= message of "Mon, 27 Jun 2022 15:28:17 +0200") Message-ID: <87tu86ut40.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Mattias EngdegĂ„rd writes: > But the point is that alists has several more advantages: counting > number of keys is twice as fast, Nobody does that either. 😀 Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47425 Cc: Philipp Stephani , Nicolas Petton , Stefan Monnier , Drew Adams , 47425@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd writes: > But the point is that alists has several more advantages: counting > number of keys is twice as fast, Nobody does that either. =F0=9F=98=80 > iterating and/or transform the collection easily done with mapcar, > mapcan, dolist, mapc etc. Plists have no real advantage from their > structure. Yes, it's true that we have a lot more infrastructure that's geared towards simple lists, and you can use those more easily with alists. But mapcar etc aren't idea for alists, either. We do have `on' in `cl-loop'. Adding some syntax to pcase for plists might be nice. (I.e., for pcase-dolist etc.) --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 27 10:39:40 2022 Received: (at 47425) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jun 2022 14:39:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52970 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5pts-0003AM-49 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 10:39:40 -0400 Received: from mx0a-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.165.32]:55432) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5ptp-0003AC-8n for 47425@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 10:39:39 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (m0246629.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.17.1.5/8.17.1.5) with ESMTP id 25RDdKSb020701; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 14:39:34 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; 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Mon, 27 Jun 2022 14:39:30 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Stefan Monnier , Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: RE: [External] : Re: bug#47425: 26.3; `plist-get', `plist-put' should accept a TEST function Thread-Topic: [External] : Re: bug#47425: 26.3; `plist-get', `plist-put' should accept a TEST function Thread-Index: AQHYih/71iA+JEWL2UaASfnLQYYZcK1jTPrA Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 14:39:30 +0000 Message-ID: References: <71C43639-B441-4BD1-93A0-C8DDE1389529@acm.org> <87edzawcv8.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 10cae375-3b2a-49fa-56bc-08da584ad7fb x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BY5PR10MB4113:EE_ x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 10cae375-3b2a-49fa-56bc-08da584ad7fb X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 27 Jun 2022 14:39:30.0275 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: shQV52Euh6N2QM5ouZ5uFlZN7hDwfyUX8VdMupF5668RvYi7bXNCxvnD7DXBaFZqgzDw61pbb2KQUyRRdHowKA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY5PR10MB4113 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.517, 18.0.883 definitions=2022-06-27_06:2022-06-24, 2022-06-27 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxlogscore=503 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2204290000 definitions=main-2206270064 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: 42PGRZWbuaOLzuy00aCtZ6YU-DGf1PVi X-Proofpoint-GUID: 42PGRZWbuaOLzuy00aCtZ6YU-DGf1PVi X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47425 Cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=E5rd?= , Philipp Stephani , Nicolas Petton , "47425@debbugs.gnu.org" <47425@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > Then again, plists should never have existed, in my book. > They're just strictly worse than alists as datastructures. > Their only advantage is that sometimes when you write them by hand it > they're somewhat more compact (fewer dots and parentheses) but for > those cases `eq` is always good enough in my experience. > > I'd be curious to hear of a use case where plists are better than > alists while at the same time requiring a non-eq comparison. Wow. Stefan and I actually agree on something. ;-) (Well, I wouldn't go as far as saying that they never should have existed. But as far as listie things go, they're definitely nowhere near as useful as alists.) But whether plists should benefit from TEST functions other than `eq' is unrelated to whether alists might be generally - or even always "better" than alists. The fact is that some users use plists, even when they could, and maybe even should, use alists. And this is likely to continue, if not increase, due to experience with other languages and other key-value representations (JSON etc.). (Yes, IMO the manuals could tout the advantages of alists more, or compare & contrast plists and alists more. But that's not a reason not to give plist functions an optional TEST arg.) Plists with, e.g., string keys aren't uncommon, and that's likely to continue. That's kinda the point, here. 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: bf0973f5-18ba-4191-3f59-08da584adb85 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 27 Jun 2022 14:39:35.9644 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: valHlz1fnrKmoLgubDw8j7d/CTe4+9nJjwLHqRUG+QHWFBoFOLQbxz9rrQwTGWi0+iA/LCBx0auXZaETbNta9A== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN6PR10MB1364 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.517, 18.0.883 definitions=2022-06-27_06:2022-06-24, 2022-06-27 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxlogscore=328 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2204290000 definitions=main-2206270064 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: qWvykwakQr3SKyhgDGBg9JmF3ImBYIHr X-Proofpoint-GUID: qWvykwakQr3SKyhgDGBg9JmF3ImBYIHr X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47425 Cc: Philipp Stephani , Lars Ingebrigtsen , Nicolas Petton , "47425@debbugs.gnu.org" <47425@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > Then again, plists should never have existed, in my book. > > They're just strictly worse than alists as datastructures. >=20 > Indeed. For example, key-value pairs cannot be shared between=20 > different plists, and getting the nth key takes twice as long. > There should be no reason to promote or expand the use of plists. I happen to agree. Adding a TEST arg for plist functions isn't, IMO, promoting or expanding their use. It's just recognizing existing use. 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I'd say they've proven > their popularity over half a century. Yes, it's about recognizing that reality. Unless you're going to somehow _prevent_ the use of plists with keys that are other than, e.g., symbols - in particular keys that are strings, adding a TEST arg makes sense, IMO. 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 9d90ae9d-e559-48d6-67f6-08da584ae05c X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 27 Jun 2022 14:39:44.1010 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: tUZNXy5w1DOk7pTjy6F0uiouqCogHlGCHnc9ru0PSJ3h73WPOyr+DQs3APW+MS1C9VYotFbPmK+7PO6VzRYUzg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN6PR10MB1364 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.517, 18.0.883 definitions=2022-06-27_06:2022-06-24, 2022-06-27 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxlogscore=522 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2204290000 definitions=main-2206270064 X-Proofpoint-GUID: KmvHgHZW9R2f2MFLegt9JWLKS2XGBVE4 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: KmvHgHZW9R2f2MFLegt9JWLKS2XGBVE4 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47425 Cc: Philipp Stephani , Nicolas Petton , Stefan Monnier , "47425@debbugs.gnu.org" <47425@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > But the point is that alists has several more advantages: counting > number of keys is twice as fast, iterating and/or transform the > collection easily done with mapcar, mapcan, dolist, mapc etc. Plists > have no real advantage from their structure. Alists have a zillion advantages over plists. That's not what this enhancement request is about. A similar situation exists between vectors and lists. And even among different numeric types. And even between Lisp symbols and strings. It's the case that sometimes users use a type that's less useful than another type in some context. That's irrelevant to whether plist functions could benefit from a TEST arg. IMO. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 27 11:10:11 2022 Received: (at 47425) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jun 2022 15:10:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53013 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5qNO-0003xT-O8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 11:10:11 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:33212) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5qNM-0003xD-Ae for 47425@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 11:10:08 -0400 Received: from pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 7C5AF441187; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 11:10:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 6829C440FFC; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 11:10:01 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1656342601; bh=6VkGazv1GXmUm+DLOebVlBMYQb41GA5A8YHMtugFAB4=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=ADaPJTgo+7fgVIna9ETBDVFMjLqiTmdEY4dv/LqYfen3FeSCmRZApMJE1SKy4Kl3q qGLf+v18vVWbPBDfgAod+ZJ9wmYb4x7YefEatEI6rKocE5+xJOh9/v/HtA5BNtCXSm rTY9bqSDrIOhSl8+uxKQqVbAHHUkzjytu9rncWMIhc4H3Vf/epn6bLQ/5HsOUgiRu7 2mNfeAg1pSTk5YTguBX8iLnT2cjIyIxuiihPVipZzcARPSuZkCJ2PAISoxG5RTFn+o bnEUR2pnA4hU5FL2qOqt9uQAwf8UUhaPmRIg/cSrQnblUmxp5R9xGWT2EOzxx9dVem CDyCJbktaJG2w== Received: from alfajor (smb-adp06.hotspot.hub-one.net [213.174.99.155]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4239B12034C; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 11:10:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: [External] : Re: bug#47425: 26.3; `plist-get', `plist-put' should accept a TEST function Message-ID: References: <71C43639-B441-4BD1-93A0-C8DDE1389529@acm.org> <87edzawcv8.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 11:09:57 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 27 Jun 2022 14:39:30 +0000") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL -0.238 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE -0.01 - X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47425 Cc: Philipp Stephani , Mattias =?windows-1252?Q?Engdeg?= =?windows-1252?Q?=E5rd?= , Lars Ingebrigtsen , Nicolas Petton , "47425@debbugs.gnu.org" <47425@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Plists with, e.g., string keys aren't uncommon, and Really? Can you give examples? Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 27 11:12:01 2022 Received: (at 47425) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jun 2022 15:12:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53018 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5qPB-000402-7N for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 11:12:01 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:3052) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5qP9-0003zp-PE for 47425@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 11:12:00 -0400 Received: from pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 84F4144118C; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 11:11:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 03810441187; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 11:11:53 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1656342713; bh=LTLCke7AlIfq5xtfqEwDmXPFWjoUXWQ/+1YQmb2diZo=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=HiJeiGAV4FZbXnxMw7XCd+dsEmFQJbo6huGPCK2UpNhY50Ii3i46tdkFW9r73ibh7 TzumNxaygYW3IMWoRP3KTqHRmyvqh/jqAjOLeZ3c3B8dzXfy4xesiBQefwuz6ADSOx A2Q1cojwau4SxQQ8kr3nnBbk15KmRIAh0xSZKFLEk6ju6z88A/Gt5Fau36F+cNr7k/ tUmOkDQAcsaz9xyWi7Y3sD4Sw95QK+Cq6SIaUej8jAaVYLhPeNexrUI7i8wRtFMTO7 maBBnP/12QGiWnSWSKCrhYD223zmGfO6uYgCuaVxYHhoyNDu48bhJ8E+8BLvJ6t66P yUxRdoKmrjh9g== Received: from alfajor (smb-adp06.hotspot.hub-one.net [213.174.99.155]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 051BE12039B; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 11:11:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#47425: 26.3; `plist-get', `plist-put' should accept a TEST function Message-ID: References: <71C43639-B441-4BD1-93A0-C8DDE1389529@acm.org> <87edzawcv8.fsf@gnus.org> <6BBB5BB7-3552-4A98-AED5-96EF3B688B4E@acm.org> <87zghyuvh9.fsf@gnus.org> <87tu86ut40.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 11:11:49 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87tu86ut40.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Mon, 27 Jun 2022 15:35:27 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL -0.204 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE -0.01 - X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47425 Cc: Mattias =?windows-1252?Q?Engdeg=E5rd?= , Philipp Stephani , Nicolas Petton , 47425@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > `cl-loop'. Adding some syntax to pcase for plists might be nice. Not! Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 27 11:18:43 2022 Received: (at 47425) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jun 2022 15:18:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53039 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5qVW-0004BH-Ps for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 11:18:43 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:38670) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5qVR-0004B0-Oa for 47425@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 11:18:33 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=5gUxekGRHiBMzPprr2LZ9PHSvfLCCHxfTxsNLbEWztk=; b=aqXCsIqy4o8v7ok2LXFnFPpKgB xDc1LrZ2d/7ZNpncH3sZN0bDjWlv/jVwjVkA+vcYSJmhJmdfpp8wkMgB0VQ+wHCV3IBcLvIRqkWXn hL91RpZu/IODmkuqC6p//gGLM5GtQeIzU5GvFYWjSG/WU+dmnl3S7MO7GnKOQI/fQ0HA=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o5qVD-0007Ww-OC; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 17:18:18 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Monnier Subject: Re: bug#47425: 26.3; `plist-get', `plist-put' should accept a TEST function References: <71C43639-B441-4BD1-93A0-C8DDE1389529@acm.org> <87edzawcv8.fsf@gnus.org> <6BBB5BB7-3552-4A98-AED5-96EF3B688B4E@acm.org> <87zghyuvh9.fsf@gnus.org> <87tu86ut40.fsf@gnus.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAG1BMVEXCta2+sarFubG3 q6WwpZ6topupnpfNwLj///+vw1mlAAAAAWJLR0QIht6VegAAAAd0SU1FB+YGGw8QHSYJTrQAAAF1 SURBVDjLbVPJTQRBDLRNArYmAat5zBs1hLAhEAIJkP8DX+3pWdZaIabKt6sBGcZmMBQcQHBrWIMr M5fGoQ0bBBoeqhehBnm8iPh3mYDhan/QcGGwXwYIRK1EMYIyYBqR4dY2gnTtw4ixiN0EVufY3tHM gNV+EQ3mf+pDsOxLSK8cS2hfWm3lln/f2GWUu6tma3JS0pGVYJDG/mxoCfe7IYvcgP7yRBtnU5F2 9Fpt+K3ie48cBBdOebE4XhyNYzy6XT1aYXMl7/NtPuYnRyXx4rL28P7z/fXgukvWyDznb6VCYXQi k59j4asjXnXPTXLeube0qVfXUFCC3a9AjvoPnohKB7yrvYQLsatr8mddaRQMj/0Z3A70TwTIry+I rvZdvf1QgukvoOsF9cEVWuhUmuaSKxUxlg4iinqk4U8who066x342tNZ5ocToyRgiSmIY05jWm1j 9eT4lLq3R0YrKDNM2hhTd0cSXiXNmjFtNR4xmVP+ALMAQJrUEnDKAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0 ZQAyMDIyLTA2LTI3VDE1OjE2OjI5KzAwOjAwDdhznwAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMi0w Ni0yN1QxNToxNjoyOSswMDowMHyFyyMAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Massimo's _invalidObject Series (var)_: "setInterval("Jump()", 10);" Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 17:18:12 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Mon, 27 Jun 2022 11:11:49 -0400") Message-ID: <87h746uocr.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Monnier writes: >> `cl-loop'. Adding some syntax to pcase for plists might be nice. > > Not! đŸ„ł Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47425 Cc: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= , Philipp Stephani , Nicolas Petton , 47425@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Stefan Monnier writes: >> `cl-loop'. 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Mon, 27 Jun 2022 17:07:16 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Stefan Monnier Subject: RE: [External] : Re: bug#47425: 26.3; `plist-get', `plist-put' should accept a TEST function Thread-Topic: [External] : Re: bug#47425: 26.3; `plist-get', `plist-put' should accept a TEST function Thread-Index: AQHYijf9GX8zHYq7sUOGXXN9pboAq61jcx1Q Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 17:07:16 +0000 Message-ID: References: <71C43639-B441-4BD1-93A0-C8DDE1389529@acm.org> <87edzawcv8.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 9caee6b1-b402-422e-9d48-08da585f7cea x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MWHPR10MB1359:EE_ x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 9caee6b1-b402-422e-9d48-08da585f7cea X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 27 Jun 2022 17:07:16.6609 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: cPiDmBUZBbQuein7WjFdJeCgYNgQpt2TaEDTZw7sX8vlWSKfpTdYGI6YwvTnJegeUUlCtGVRrxjmu1sgouCaVA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR10MB1359 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.517, 18.0.883 definitions=2022-06-27_06:2022-06-24, 2022-06-27 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxlogscore=798 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2204290000 definitions=main-2206270070 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: CIDlA0eyLbVobPSxneSKJKIL9lhVp3TY X-Proofpoint-GUID: CIDlA0eyLbVobPSxneSKJKIL9lhVp3TY X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47425 Cc: Philipp Stephani , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=E5rd?= , Lars Ingebrigtsen , Nicolas Petton , "47425@debbugs.gnu.org" <47425@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > Plists with, e.g., string keys aren't uncommon > > Really? Can you give examples? Maybe I could, but I won't try. I take it that you don't think so. That's fine. My expectation is that more users nowadays may be inclined to use string keys than in the past, because (as I said) of the influence of things like JSON. This enhancement request is to cater to what I expect will not be all that uncommon. And there may be more and more use of conversion of alists (which do often have nonsymbol keys) to plists. For whatever reasons (good & bad). Note too, BTW, that (not uncommon) !=3D common. ___ CLTL2, "The Property List" says, in passing, that `symbol-plist' keys are "typically" symbols. It doesn't say that they _are_ symbols. And it doesn't say anywhere that they need to be distinguishable with just `eq'. In any case, I'll grant you that using symbol keys _is_ common. (The same is true of alist keys, BTW.) ___ BTW, CLTL2 also points to this as the essential difference between a plist and an alist: a property list is an object with a unique identity; the operations for adding and removing property-list entries are destructive operations that alter the property list rather than making a new one. Association lists, on the other hand, are normally augmented non-destructively (without side effects) by adding new entries to the front (see acons and pairlis). No mention of plist keys being symbols. However, it's also true that CL defines `remprop' as using `eq'. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 27 13:20:00 2022 Received: (at 47425) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jun 2022 17:20:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53167 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5sP2-0000u2-1M for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 13:20:00 -0400 Received: from mail18c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.10.28]:59484) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5sP0-0000tt-Cm for 47425@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 13:19:59 -0400 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1656350396; bh=IjqN/LonAVu1ctQguERcFkomko1s+EvPI/dBZVoGa0o=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=NII17hnuKL1Vr4ONym4uZbgD6Q8eYccaoX43D91riyNuNBp3PutM6GedBypI/CGa4 UMZ6u4dG12oNS/cgbpgTJX9b9pxJPQ10kfqrVFoVNlzZODfGeul9C3yN1wpXOE+4Nq 7pnb7F1SjSk0rEKqpRlQktlzVuZtHqhDKFUHagQ0= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from smtpclient.apple (c188-150-171-71.bredband.tele2.se [188.150.171.71]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail18c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 25RHJrAf064788; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 17:19:55 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: Re: bug#47425: 26.3; `plist-get', `plist-put' should accept a TEST function From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 19:19:53 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <50781052-27FB-4FA7-B34F-A138EEEF7AAF@acm.org> References: <71C43639-B441-4BD1-93A0-C8DDE1389529@acm.org> <87edzawcv8.fsf@gnus.org> To: Drew Adams X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-Origin-Country: SE X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47425 Cc: Philipp Stephani , Lars Ingebrigtsen , Nicolas Petton , Stefan Monnier , "47425@debbugs.gnu.org" <47425@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) > And it doesn't say anywhere that they need to > be distinguishable with just `eq'. Operations on property lists in Common Lisp use `eq`. There is no option = to use another equality predicate. This change is just needless gold-plating. Let's revert. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 27 13:23:06 2022 Received: (at 47425) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jun 2022 17:23:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53171 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5sS2-0000zD-Fz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 13:23:06 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:39602) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5sS0-0000yY-Qd for 47425@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 13:23:05 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=NEjCbfVEvkNUHM1StSk/w6kzj1r8ID6kF3wBSZkk1qg=; b=glC5DPWXFislaybbAMeXgdcBMZ 3sdnuSwM4R76hVj5DoXzhSqNIhTP6UJ+RnlJoD8TFnyZ2Q7MhsMEgg98aHpi4Ca9SEsslTsHRvNTc 2NdaBlQa9UpgaMNnhJgUCzYaHl7inJpZSJAOuIqTg9qwT/XXae6KRnBfBRsn5U21ojoI=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o5sRl-0000N5-Ij; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 19:22:52 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Subject: Re: bug#47425: 26.3; `plist-get', `plist-put' should accept a TEST function References: <71C43639-B441-4BD1-93A0-C8DDE1389529@acm.org> <87edzawcv8.fsf@gnus.org> <50781052-27FB-4FA7-B34F-A138EEEF7AAF@acm.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAElBMVEUxZCYRFA5PXjBb jlGmmnn///8xHCDOAAAAAWJLR0QF+G/pxwAAAAd0SU1FB+YGGxEWKDBYo2sAAAG4SURBVDjLddRR luogDAbgQGcBBWcBNHUBlHQBHmH/a7p/AmI9zuVBbb8mJEAlF/pYiciFiF8b6zW9wSvo5YTI+FIg 5zcNGRCZGV/kEeJfCQwCcwLQTsQWETcDpIwJqYg7xE8g8nvqwGzgAGzgB0QeEcwGu8KhEw+wqqhH pGPTG6gYDbzAxrGSNoLOiPBE0u4wMh24tuZthfA5wduCKayr9rB08Ie3iBg0EnNq19C8HDSWlXzC 84nEgC6AXJq7fAGKJ19AE6jDkil0SAqPCbZTosAD+p5Yxg6iVT1o5yt4g13hLDThJpjJVzpTh/gB C4B2wJPu7g1PA5FK90o/ecJZX+B2FEEDfmurXqFKDlKcXOCxGCzZqU1oBvmsP9ntBHBXaLnVMzvc mXC/QMANSZ9QW6u2HJh/QhaDh8GatzcQtSotj9M+IloHkZFqvjgAbO25Syu1cJmAapsknJ184lTH bcKJarC65CiHcE2FgGon8hY+4LdPQWHdPiCi/qfTgDW8atXXAJuQ2nOcmbBy2DdhASySC7ooKIeX civ9f0HPFZZSFqpF4ra6yxz99Qhfg1z4e3T4f8R33D8WfV8c5FBkLAAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpjcmVh dGUAMjAyMi0wNi0yN1QxNzoyMjo0MCswMDowMK56TPsAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5ADIwMjIt MDYtMjdUMTc6MjI6NDArMDA6MDDfJ/RHAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: =?utf-8?Q?M=C3=B8ster!'s?= _When You Cut Into The Present_: "Nebula And Red Giant" Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 19:22:45 +0200 In-Reply-To: <50781052-27FB-4FA7-B34F-A138EEEF7AAF@acm.org> ("Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd=22's?= message of "Mon, 27 Jun 2022 19:19:53 +0200") Message-ID: <87czeuuil6.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Mattias EngdegĂ„rd writes: > This change is just needless gold-plating. Let's revert. Nope. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47425 Cc: Philipp Stephani , Nicolas Petton , Stefan Monnier , Drew Adams , "47425@debbugs.gnu.org" <47425@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd writes: > This change is just needless gold-plating. Let's revert. Nope. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 27 13:41:57 2022 Received: (at 47425) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jun 2022 17:41:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53300 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5skH-0001Vd-5o for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 13:41:57 -0400 Received: from mx0a-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.165.32]:49206) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5skD-0001VU-Ua for 47425@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 13:41:56 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (m0246627.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.17.1.5/8.17.1.5) with ESMTP id 25RG8SP6001846; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 17:41:48 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; 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Mon, 27 Jun 2022 17:41:44 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=E5rd?= Subject: RE: [External] : Re: bug#47425: 26.3; `plist-get', `plist-put' should accept a TEST function Thread-Topic: [External] : Re: bug#47425: 26.3; `plist-get', `plist-put' should accept a TEST function Thread-Index: AQHYikooUwGfbrzsQUKb+naypPkUZK1jgRaA Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 17:41:44 +0000 Message-ID: References: <71C43639-B441-4BD1-93A0-C8DDE1389529@acm.org> <87edzawcv8.fsf@gnus.org> <50781052-27FB-4FA7-B34F-A138EEEF7AAF@acm.org> In-Reply-To: <50781052-27FB-4FA7-B34F-A138EEEF7AAF@acm.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 82005e95-4fa4-485c-fffb-08da58644da3 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM6PR10MB3948:EE_ x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 82005e95-4fa4-485c-fffb-08da58644da3 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 27 Jun 2022 17:41:44.8601 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: vpJitZulWZlve7/CMQ9b5bixNMPRq4e188eEBFucR/l6qtNpoS4Fx6ylYODTEMfQ4cDbUz8vSOMQV2W37oTAGw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR10MB3948 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.517, 18.0.883 definitions=2022-06-27_06:2022-06-24, 2022-06-27 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=424 suspectscore=0 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2204290000 definitions=main-2206270072 X-Proofpoint-GUID: Pu_EwXuj561c067YLO6fttABMQfTE4kE X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: Pu_EwXuj561c067YLO6fttABMQfTE4kE X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47425 Cc: Philipp Stephani , Lars Ingebrigtsen , Nicolas Petton , Stefan Monnier , "47425@debbugs.gnu.org" <47425@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > And it doesn't say anywhere that they need to > > be distinguishable with just `eq'. >=20 > Operations on property lists in Common Lisp use `eq`. > There is no option to use another equality predicate. Yes, I mentioned that fact. CL was of course defined 40 years ago. And its users, especially back then, didn't come from backgrounds that commonly included using key-value with string keys (such as JSON). And CL didn't change pre-existing functions (such as `remprop'), to give them :test args, as much as it added such args to new functions. CL sequence functions have :test, for example. (And a plist is a sequence.). Also, unlike Elisp, CL doesn't document any use of plists other than `symbol-plist' - it specifically didn't adopt the use of "disembodied" plists, for example. ___ I don't think that providing a TEST arg will needlessly encourage the use of non-symbol keys. I don't see how it will hurt, at all. But if someone thinks it's very important to discourage the use of non-symbol keys, then that can be added to the doc string. That's not equivalent to not allowing a TEST arg. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jun 28 11:24:03 2022 Received: (at 47425) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jun 2022 15:24:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56135 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o6D4N-0007oL-Lq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 11:24:03 -0400 Received: from mail-ej1-f52.google.com ([209.85.218.52]:41731) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o6D4G-0007nI-W1 for 47425@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 11:24:02 -0400 Received: by mail-ej1-f52.google.com with SMTP id u12so26444698eja.8 for <47425@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 08:23:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tcd.ie; s=google21; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=IHJzvghOfztRhwpPy7MJXvKRkQ1APwneJbCW3Z3s1Zc=; b=DcWGgToqVuGZr1cZoe/OcR6nLoCYNn99Ry8lcebb1sgSrOkWPjfQjZgn4nuyomoyIv nCrKnfwTBZAX99ygAr7rgin9U6apqo2e7YCPw6LKBe+jSKkUhDaq9h5EFDatEdHE8TNp GppMCMUyg5mEWD4ll9RdZ+wMcsogsZrS42aY9dZtHM3yFluYaFtoyfDIDuBq6OZDBRQ3 ksJcgIZhKZqRFEa2z+YqCs9SSWkAvox03SL2pf5Mqa6ldvYoTv+Q9rOABfAIGzePpYF+ cqD6J4CHb8SmfJJEMxTzC9zgzteLdT+LZbj2VrB+2mimxUdMcWD2Q70NfmTuXQeE4N0U 3JPQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=IHJzvghOfztRhwpPy7MJXvKRkQ1APwneJbCW3Z3s1Zc=; b=VACMwD1r6wqEVWIZncA/cQIYjUzzYSYxpDgY4yt8oR1k3uJthhZUIbN6JaDK1jnQ5o 5JYaSbeoV4bMWZRAFnnhmnJMIZkfG4+4k3PnluT1YJ6A1mLnCK5JV6VmxxmaIgZCytWk uYAnTDq7xDk5M1UP1LzIpuErfYnvX+rd4ys4Ykemz0pLftjM4/Tbo/1rT9JHr9xMmxhV g7esPpwFQ7TJ/6jLwL3mSHAaB7LGtia16paQSA/IoeXmN35Nuln3PWgBpeSKdM2+PXbr dSBPzIyczbkNhLDmhWZDXK69zH9pNoANlJ6KS9Xsrz/DNGW5f+bC481cmIhm1EugsXLI Stnw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora9xpHYVpznOhVNPpXncaNotqm1kdh1Q45aJdF0rcviKzEM0M15+ uOCn0ZDfMz77caIDOBcALt384A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1t8Hzwy0FV/+e9OgR6YQ1DOgXot0v9Ed5a/tUzK4gf2J9NteNdpaw6Q5RaUppRC1H5jCXBB3A== X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:9620:b0:726:9316:54b7 with SMTP id gb32-20020a170907962000b00726931654b7mr15586117ejc.73.1656429831163; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 08:23:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([2a02:587:322b:6f5e:dc92:136a:a7c4:dc8c]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t27-20020a17090616db00b0071cbc7487e1sm6537556ejd.69.2022.06.28.08.23.50 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 28 Jun 2022 08:23:50 -0700 (PDT) From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#47425: 26.3; `plist-get', `plist-put' should accept a TEST function References: <71C43639-B441-4BD1-93A0-C8DDE1389529@acm.org> <87edzawcv8.fsf@gnus.org> <50781052-27FB-4FA7-B34F-A138EEEF7AAF@acm.org> <87czeuuil6.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 18:23:48 +0300 In-Reply-To: <87czeuuil6.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Mon, 27 Jun 2022 19:22:45 +0200") Message-ID: <878rpg24mz.fsf@tcd.ie> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47425 Cc: "47425@debbugs.gnu.org" <47425@debbugs.gnu.org>, Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= , Nicolas Petton , Philipp Stephani , Stefan Monnier , Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) (let ((plist (list :a t))) (setf (plist-get plist :a) nil) plist) ;; => (:a nil) (let ((plist (list :a t))) (setf (plist-get plist :a #'eq) nil) plist) ;; error-> wrong-number-of-arguments Do we want the expander in gv.el to understand the new argument? There's also the question of map.el. Custom predicates are deprecated there, since they rely on knowing the underlying map type. Do we want plist operations to understand custom predicates regardless? Thanks, -- Basil From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jun 28 11:40:30 2022 Received: (at 47425) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jun 2022 15:40:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56142 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o6DKI-0008CO-42 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 11:40:30 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:49808) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o6DKD-0008C6-HM for 47425@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 11:40:29 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=z9aXgga4XUiuR5jfSfwiIuT/7F37fBVrhuomHYOYM88=; b=uxgpQHCMWI3l6QJCjpG1amxqFc 9g0b0QoQIpOkuPqDZXjZhDdpeFwTWornRu6n03GlnnOUaKWsvBdPnNY3YeHW6ALzVlqoC0GzhSZkr cBfcJDuWifkswIV7hy64V1jc2R9jY5mQDmaK3WZxOjszXUlbiqNnOEXndr1OEDNi/kjw=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o6DK1-0003ji-1P; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 17:40:15 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: "Basil L. Contovounesios" Subject: Re: bug#47425: 26.3; `plist-get', `plist-put' should accept a TEST function References: <71C43639-B441-4BD1-93A0-C8DDE1389529@acm.org> <87edzawcv8.fsf@gnus.org> <50781052-27FB-4FA7-B34F-A138EEEF7AAF@acm.org> <87czeuuil6.fsf@gnus.org> <878rpg24mz.fsf@tcd.ie> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAFVBMVEWrqKbGw7nU0ctZ TlOic1wcGB////8kETncAAAAAWJLR0QGYWa4fQAAAAd0SU1FB+YGHA8fI/0nd2kAAAG0SURBVDjL dZNLcqwwDEUFYQGW0wvArIBXgjmNlXlXOd7/Vp4kfyCpjgZg63D1swEYUM0vCy6ISzF0BEMhfrmb ASz2J7hLAn6+BQHxMf0BHLwDuj0a+ClAt72pyrarAd8kwRfiw1qSLCbB4NxYw61wJQkOpJqhA2hl CQBwgyWZLXnLqkAV2od23isNFSwVdAUqGN+A8BvcYsXjBqrfsw9oilBHUvzz+TgwdCAK6UzZYwzM oFsDe1d8nAKIBKCCpJVjkEjxfDDzdpbxSihATQ+RnpMAHut5CFik2fmDaFP/5itICsYACuLG8V8o Z2DALXBE2lNMxB69bwCeLhLRnimnWI8AXQaYnjCJn7IYjeIMFQBqhj2bnV4vwOAUyHFKhgqeFki+ zsDHPMUmyKs1LA+G/JqnHimXdsBscHwppDJwdkHAz1Jt2s2Z8zdP0imRqORucBfkJPWkL13JryaA OhgE2GfAg1R7AWYF8oINgC6Qt9gU3wBXUQKogZdOqvtzyg2sAmwl+90mU8GmI9TVy41+DLpqoE4k UdIq6AJxp3RLsjfA99w3MHGZVAdUQZSZ/VDIoanjP9BrucgzTGP0AAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0 ZQAyMDIyLTA2LTI4VDE1OjMxOjM1KzAwOjAwMojc9wAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMi0w Ni0yOFQxNTozMTozNSswMDowMEPVZEsAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Various's _DJ Kicks: Kamaal Williams_: "DJ Kicks" Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 17:40:10 +0200 In-Reply-To: <878rpg24mz.fsf@tcd.ie> (Basil L. Contovounesios's message of "Tue, 28 Jun 2022 18:23:48 +0300") Message-ID: <878rpgokyt.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: "Basil L. Contovounesios" writes: > (let ((plist (list :a t))) > (setf (plist-get plist :a) nil) > plist) > ;; => (:a nil) > > (let ((plist (list :a t))) > (setf (plist-get plist :a #'eq) nil) > plist) > ;; error-> wrong-number-of-arg [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47425 Cc: "47425@debbugs.gnu.org" <47425@debbugs.gnu.org>, Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= , Nicolas Petton , Philipp Stephani , Stefan Monnier , Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) "Basil L. Contovounesios" writes: > (let ((plist (list :a t))) > (setf (plist-get plist :a) nil) > plist) > ;; => (:a nil) > > (let ((plist (list :a t))) > (setf (plist-get plist :a #'eq) nil) > plist) > ;; error-> wrong-number-of-arguments > > Do we want the expander in gv.el to understand the new argument? Yup. > There's also the question of map.el. Custom predicates are deprecated > there, since they rely on knowing the underlying map type. Do we want > plist operations to understand custom predicates regardless? Using the map functions for plists doesn't really work, so I don't think it matters much. That is, if you end up with a nil MAP after doing some deletes, you suddenly can't put anything into the map. I think expanding map.el to try to handle plists was a mistake -- it's a fun hack, but can't be used meaningfully in practice. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jun 28 23:33:52 2022 Received: (at 47425) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Jun 2022 03:33:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56795 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o6OSe-000300-Hk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 23:33:52 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:60282) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o6OSa-0002zk-6Z for 47425@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 23:33:51 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:49232) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o6OST-0004b9-65; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 23:33:41 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=s3qmDq8Do5fEoLraXeePr4jfzOzfaD71j0wmmb6/cHs=; b=U1fv1n3HC1hm R34HtCqh4FXjcVxkKnFZ+mHmxXI6nzc8QxN1jAkxd80wB89JTjuoqShnP3EvS/ggJjTjpEtaLEhJB LyGYKTe94cocqlLoTMW1Jz9aejJYzljsscTnjNOWmfTSgqRbOi9mdqKpqzvtn2VeClSSdjUJxv9n3 oAJ76qh379yUYBPgSH5EcMNkGWYIOwC3JAZjOo03Z/O60hLtvxDDVH5DDrzUPi4yCRJgi/hsbYG0Z yb3qx44et6Id2PLKA+9pWkMoOvPWhlxYiJM91I8WG6VLfC6OVVyNgp+kkl+3aInyy5sng9ARHKHXo PUbu8pxZ2rwDEUrezhnDoA==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o6OSS-0005cM-BT; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 23:33:40 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87czeuuil6.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Mon, 27 Jun 2022 19:22:45 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#47425: 26.3; `plist-get', `plist-put' and proposed TEST function References: <71C43639-B441-4BD1-93A0-C8DDE1389529@acm.org> <87edzawcv8.fsf@gnus.org> <50781052-27FB-4FA7-B34F-A138EEEF7AAF@acm.org> <87czeuuil6.fsf@gnus.org> Message-Id: Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 23:33:40 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47425 Cc: 47425@debbugs.gnu.org, mattiase@acm.org, nicolas@petton.fr, p.stephani2@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] CL-style keyword arguments to modify list operations are clunky. Unless we implement them in an extra-complicated way, they will slow down the usual case, too. I understand the motivation for proposing this change, but let's solve it in a cleaner way that doesn't invite copying the bad designs of CL. Here are two ways that occur to me. * The applications that want to compare property names with `equal' could canonicalize those names. For instance, intern the strings you want to use as property names, perhaps in a special obarray. Then you can use `plist-get' and `plist-put' on them and get the results you want. * Define functions `plist-get-equal' and `plist-put-equal'. Instead of complicating the definitions of widely used functions `plist-get' and `plist-put', it will define two new functions that most users won't need to pay attention to. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jun 29 01:11:40 2022 Received: (at 47425) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Jun 2022 05:11:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56896 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o6PzI-0005Zu-1v for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Jun 2022 01:11:40 -0400 Received: from mx0a-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.165.32]:19780) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o6PzB-0005Zh-Lv for 47425@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Jun 2022 01:11:38 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (m0246627.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.17.1.5/8.17.1.5) with ESMTP id 25T4iUB7011456; 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Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o6kZm-0004dR-32; Wed, 29 Jun 2022 23:10:42 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Wed, 29 Jun 2022 05:11:05 +0000) Subject: Re: [External] : Re: bug#47425: 26.3; `plist-get', `plist-put' and proposed TEST function References: <71C43639-B441-4BD1-93A0-C8DDE1389529@acm.org> <87edzawcv8.fsf@gnus.org> <50781052-27FB-4FA7-B34F-A138EEEF7AAF@acm.org> <87czeuuil6.fsf@gnus.org> Message-Id: Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2022 23:10:42 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47425 Cc: 47425@debbugs.gnu.org, mattiase@acm.org, nicolas@petton.fr, p.stephani2@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, larsi@gnus.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > The suggestion was to add a TEST optional arg, > not a keyword :test arg. IOW, follow what we > usually do in Emacs Lisp. Sorry. I thought I had seen a proposal for a keyword arg. However, I still think that the other methods I proposed are cleaner overall. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Tue Sep 23 10:39:52 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2022 11:24:06 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator