From unknown Sat Jun 21 12:11:16 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#47416 <47416@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#47416 <47416@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: Strange sentence in documentation of 'insert-file-contents' Reply-To: bug#47416 <47416@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2025 19:11:16 +0000 retitle 47416 Strange sentence in documentation of 'insert-file-contents' reassign 47416 emacs submitter 47416 Tim Lee severity 47416 minor tag 47416 wontfix thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 26 14:20:03 2021 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Mar 2021 18:20:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42440 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lPr3z-00058O-6m for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:20:03 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:49546) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lPqxD-0004vl-AB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:13:03 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56858) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lPqxD-0001p7-2u for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:13:03 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-x52b.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::52b]:45667) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lPqxB-0001Dl-CZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:13:02 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-x52b.google.com with SMTP id v10so5136769pgs.12 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2021 11:12:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:mail-followup-to:mime-version :content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding; bh=eR69EpWXIVvA9wiWOF35h6BlqPCFpP+9TNlrzUmpLos=; b=KOSkKLuI4tC6rH+V3FSvOAm/QIJNifw689APt02GAN0JkO3mjSMK12OxKdwMVIY2lu iM2pztXOGdHJ0P3beXYua1dhlH3UuSTpu88MvpgPQnNz4r28/+ky9EnGsos78Trl6Gr7 hqJiL0nW0gAm+AcyTy5oJNwEeZiom5dIo+j3F5FhS7ed7PnzDO8dk8Wy2G1EtJb1Tvk9 Vg1+3V9A8pC5/BuL75CyyTS2bXdPpO955UeZP1H8Sws92MVgWHPCEJyeFQFndLBLFHRJ 9IkLqBKniqIjXVRT+3Sf4NZKQlYQKGrlOEtYDm0z4hNYW+73eeE9Op6O2tTfhYxpk+rs xOSg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:subject:message-id:mail-followup-to :mime-version:content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding; bh=eR69EpWXIVvA9wiWOF35h6BlqPCFpP+9TNlrzUmpLos=; b=lUBaqw1BWq8crYhjnYdJGJfWbDH9g8ZiN5nKYm8H8AtsVfLNY5NDl+XkhCHf/++OAD LK1UqNraytbDTGq4QicjdxYrNtXfZKdTKP6GsEFrvNiXTNHAWY2sszzZPMZcVCOI4+61 kSNXS7Ji6Udb9fTX83a71YNAzn+RLn3ErgUDdzLXu2B513oLfa7XhPnPL4KsCaxlvBE5 KRKp/7SHBDKH9M1KwA1pSRgBGOZvIIXFIxp62ci7b0pbTmaoArcIaT/85uI6RxH1so4N oLaDGTnff8MC6IFW84PZyw3geJLe8zxoOJfa5D1jhl7/dED798k2R/5IjyPKISAQXuH4 Su5w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532EPp7tfR8vozYAJgHrCVLm2IiWdQPeo6WLLbKlF+ZemtnIqlar JVciQphmKX6UGdhnCyqXUsfBOBu7Poc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJySjXv76Hki/lafZbVnIuFf4OTs401PQkuGoFdul296nSL5C1/QC9zzz+dYNm6di9dDxC9JWA== X-Received: by 2002:a62:cd4d:0:b029:216:8c86:bf5c with SMTP id o74-20020a62cd4d0000b02902168c86bf5cmr13575977pfg.27.1616782375475; Fri, 26 Mar 2021 11:12:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from home-guest ([61.6.230.244]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f6sm9876674pfk.11.2021.03.26.11.12.53 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 26 Mar 2021 11:12:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 02:12:50 +0800 From: Tim Lee To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: Strange sentence in documentation of 'insert-file-contents' Message-ID: <20210326181250.ykkaiotkb4mgmbmo@home-guest> Mail-Followup-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::52b; envelope-from=progscriptclone@gmail.com; helo=mail-pg1-x52b.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:20:02 -0400 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) The last paragraph/sentence in the documentation of 'insert-file-contents' is: > In addition, this function decodes the inserted text from known formats > by calling `format-decode', which see. It looks like there is something wrong about this sentence. "... which see." — See what? The sentence was introduced by commit bb085aed9593 (2012-12-21). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 26 14:32:37 2021 Received: (at 47416) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Mar 2021 18:32:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42451 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lPrG9-0005Rj-NR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:32:37 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-f54.google.com ([209.85.128.54]:53877) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lPrG7-0005RW-EL for 47416@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:32:35 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-f54.google.com with SMTP id g20so3453956wmk.3 for <47416@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 26 Mar 2021 11:32:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=lavLCZZ8wlFjUTF5sLWhyFVSenlxiCzfvx3iMxH82Yk=; b=jRAOG5JEUy0JADL8BxFfUNagvCCfgpdEHTZIUX2GcYjqDz+qeQg3Mgv0kMxPEFCMNK 9sdHBuCmSTApdcY1wtwgLx6KkVBkggF/bqoIlTnDO/j1JHCqkONlbcXXmTiev7/hLc7Z arI2hcQ/riI/j7En4o8v9sXPlhf8FtesG7Az6I5DoN+J7VKejBXWx2NDw/gp9HOA8hbo VRpgugl85xEMkged4GhmGDxDGdg2tKaj4TuKlubcgi7WU4sICQ4jQfcmoDWIC2djdYQs LsPiJ4NnTXdQm5h//H2A+15ZN8FUMbDIUdpdTzU14S/7R4yyMZYnk0a99SrpuP6swBWB 4vdg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=lavLCZZ8wlFjUTF5sLWhyFVSenlxiCzfvx3iMxH82Yk=; b=PfOpdVUj5ytIfhOWAof+08El6WXUUhfp6xUBqa9105HfvyMmFKSFthoobHM3ibJyVk 7MO3lda6+F6/np33MnY+e2fqjP8wIPy4ERRLWPThtZ+Vf6W/Bzv4ogf9mBXzVMYw8fkD n/9fZwngw/vJN+ckZzWulfVYHHINdw7eLgCGwKx/ZZw8V2ibcf0vJzjsJxW0st7o6yaE juufUbyFK8spI4KoiAx+GjEj5D1DHEfiIKGwh9dd9OYKelFa2j8UHDlSRoQKQBoov5Fm scJ0hTo15qZAj3q9PVqGQFFZUPVgeJSzJGf5nYRdOb3K0p7sRWGlTdg4G1TM6Svh9pnj q0NA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530dYHMhAdEMFV2VxvIHnctcLhQa1DCUhIMcWqNBnetoKRao8Tc6 FYgRpSeJ21QGEdczz0ZkQcIj64K6AMmDyg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxk+2tPe4GlxtlGVQTLTz/upCL+Ggyg4P8wa90pIY8OVKVfiLlbSIMUVQW0Tm1E4xhE79MHqg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:214d:: with SMTP id v13mr14333823wml.162.1616783549599; Fri, 26 Mar 2021 11:32:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from philipps-macbook-pro.fritz.box (p57997dea.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [87.153.125.234]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j6sm10833364wmq.16.2021.03.26.11.32.28 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 26 Mar 2021 11:32:29 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) Subject: Re: bug#47416: Strange sentence in documentation of 'insert-file-contents' From: Philipp In-Reply-To: <20210326181250.ykkaiotkb4mgmbmo@home-guest> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 19:32:28 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <416A2299-0AC6-45D2-B904-99F12F60C4FC@gmail.com> References: <20210326181250.ykkaiotkb4mgmbmo@home-guest> To: Tim Lee X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47416 Cc: 47416@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) > Am 26.03.2021 um 19:12 schrieb Tim Lee : >=20 > The last paragraph/sentence in the documentation of = 'insert-file-contents' is: >=20 >> In addition, this function decodes the inserted text from known = formats >> by calling `format-decode', which see. >=20 > It looks like there is something wrong about this sentence. >=20 > "... which see." =E2=80=94 See what? Apparently this is correct English. "... X, which see" means roughly = "To find out more, look up X."= From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 26 14:34:14 2021 Received: (at 47416) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Mar 2021 18:34:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42455 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lPrHi-0005UD-0k for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:34:14 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:42620) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lPrHf-0005U4-Tb for 47416@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:34:13 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20210101; t=1616783650; bh=BVlg7d+mcDhUPNyGJMGikYfZ1hbYmUw6pGMehDs7akU=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=hdGF1HVOpzZXNn9rU+vJFNN53l4P2Vm8/JWyPkY3NlOov7EG3ctseVQ6NpbgL8Zl3 pxprGscsqeTu3LNIkznvrOiJ3BjFaZ1sYs7KmNRGMK2WCTefysAEaHbtPAX0iv9tKi qFzjOaI2KCkZ2NCLebleGJfHKuq/dBr+H5Mi3o8vCRjW0+KWMNri868RdNnpdc5CFu h67+CUCq4uGes9wCRICPHy6Zm6IzcKN5v9aHkmwJ+VQ14u2uQuxJst5mSgoI8I3hQc QWpSMRy8yuVnLNvBlaaK6e8Pnb2A9SUbbPdZz9D00jEzzCu1zb+JlvkL55dSRWDuyL dmsqIS+KnGqcg== Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 18:34:09 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Tim Lee Subject: Re: bug#47416: Strange sentence in documentation of 'insert-file-contents' In-Reply-To: <20210326181250.ykkaiotkb4mgmbmo@home-guest> Message-ID: References: <20210326181250.ykkaiotkb4mgmbmo@home-guest> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="g3pSc5Es2m" Content-ID: X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47416 Cc: 47416@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --g3pSc5Es2m Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-ID: > > The last paragraph/sentence in the documentation of=20 > 'insert-file-contents' is: > >> In addition, this function decodes the inserted text from known formats= =20 >> by calling `format-decode', which see. > > It looks like there is something wrong about this sentence. > > "... which see." =E2=80=94 See what? > > The sentence was introduced by commit bb085aed9593 (2012-12-21). > See the Emacs manual Glossary: q.v. Short for "quod vide" in Latin, which= =20 means "which see". There are about 400 occurrences of "which see" in the= =20 Emacs documentation, it means "look at the documentation of the previous=20 word/function to find more information". --g3pSc5Es2m-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 26 14:42:43 2021 Received: (at 47416) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Mar 2021 18:42:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42460 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lPrPu-0005gE-S9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:42:43 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:44436) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lPrPu-0005g0-4U for 47416@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:42:42 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:41633) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lPrPo-0001Uo-TV for 47416@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:42:36 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lPrPi-00034r-MV; Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:42:31 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: 47416@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#47416: Strange sentence in documentation of 'insert-file-contents' References: <20210326181250.ykkaiotkb4mgmbmo@home-guest> X-Spook: World Health Organization chameleon man TSA Emergency X-Ran: {mD]SE4Th]5D^7=wB:<,N,;NkwFpa8Lisj|$U"2X2i[r^,V7?RP@]@^>{5A#\kUoigBT[` X-Hue: red X-Attribution: GM Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:42:30 -0400 In-Reply-To: <20210326181250.ykkaiotkb4mgmbmo@home-guest> (Tim Lee's message of "Sat, 27 Mar 2021 02:12:50 +0800") Message-ID: <5dczvlkb8p.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47416 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) It's one more archaism that Emacs refuses to remove. Ref https://debbugs.gnu.org/28790 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 26 15:09:48 2021 Received: (at 47416) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Mar 2021 19:09:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42511 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lPrq8-0006MI-Ej for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Mar 2021 15:09:48 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:52222) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lPrq7-0006M5-9o for 47416@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Mar 2021 15:09:47 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:42249) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lPrq2-0000zT-3B for 47416@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Mar 2021 15:09:42 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2793 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lPrq1-0007vb-04; Fri, 26 Mar 2021 15:09:41 -0400 Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 22:09:43 +0300 Message-Id: <83blb5pw94.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Glenn Morris In-Reply-To: <5dczvlkb8p.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> (message from Glenn Morris on Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:42:30 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#47416: Strange sentence in documentation of 'insert-file-contents' References: <20210326181250.ykkaiotkb4mgmbmo@home-guest> <5dczvlkb8p.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47416 Cc: 47416@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: Glenn Morris > Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:42:30 -0400 > > It's one more archaism that Emacs refuses to remove. It's unfair and unkind to use derogatory language for past decisions just because you disagree with them. Please just let go. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 26 16:27:18 2021 Received: (at 47416) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Mar 2021 20:27:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42591 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lPt37-0001wL-Va for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Mar 2021 16:27:18 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:42728) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lPt36-0001wE-Fx for 47416@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Mar 2021 16:27:17 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20210101; t=1616790435; bh=wby4gt6VTeih+2Zf5l+ctuplYHzrWaCkMHF30Ka4tdQ=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=ZTDE1yOz+c1mXpivkxMP30uGDsu5XjG8iwMVP8u5R29IdwYG4wnEXkyHO8qRGqWzu LZ/sqAOrNZ/ljFFPz6bmqUOC2p9UDTJT18dp41OR8y+8SG5W+7gv77f0M9pbBNXyjx aORNDRaEUjsDuJEYYqsXrCWEmu9xRmBXlQ0ZPEEOk10Yqt014aBKQu50+sLEvi4r8A t9f42xat3v+mfxJXvrqu7iScDlaSS6+HbKw/aN8HAwCZx9ka42hl9BHjOgKJx+zpId 36+k51qHwlAL9MO1ugzPklBUBh23XDOMf6DSlBY2T3ljiVYTjRJ34BsIFJ1ZAiEbu/ Z9BChC13pHabw== Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 20:27:14 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#47416: Strange sentence in documentation of 'insert-file-contents' In-Reply-To: <83blb5pw94.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: References: <20210326181250.ykkaiotkb4mgmbmo@home-guest> <5dczvlkb8p.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83blb5pw94.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47416 Cc: 47416@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) What about replacing "which see" with "quod vide"? It's not longer (eight letters and one space), and is easier to look up than both "which see" and "q.v.". From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Mar 27 01:57:06 2021 Received: (at 47416) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Mar 2021 05:57:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43172 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lQ1wY-0007iU-9d for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Mar 2021 01:57:06 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40708) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lQ1wW-0007i0-G4 for 47416@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Mar 2021 01:57:04 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:58985) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lQ1wQ-00056U-N6; Sat, 27 Mar 2021 01:56:58 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2739 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lQ1wP-0007Lc-Lv; Sat, 27 Mar 2021 01:56:58 -0400 Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 08:57:01 +0300 Message-Id: <83a6qpp2aa.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Gregory Heytings In-Reply-To: (message from Gregory Heytings on Fri, 26 Mar 2021 20:27:14 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#47416: Strange sentence in documentation of 'insert-file-contents' References: <20210326181250.ykkaiotkb4mgmbmo@home-guest> <5dczvlkb8p.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83blb5pw94.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47416 Cc: 47416@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 20:27:14 +0000 > From: Gregory Heytings > cc: 47416@debbugs.gnu.org > > What about replacing "which see" with "quod vide"? It's not longer (eight > letters and one space), and is easier to look up than both "which see" and > "q.v.". ISTR that past discussions concluded that q.v. would be even more cryptic. With "which see", at least native English speakers and those who are used to scientific literature would immediately understand what it means. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Mar 27 03:09:30 2021 Received: (at 47416) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Mar 2021 07:09:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43307 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lQ34c-0003Fn-MR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Mar 2021 03:09:30 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:43302) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lQ34a-0003Fd-Qm for 47416@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Mar 2021 03:09:29 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20210101; t=1616828967; bh=+4xYifcNXcmvcZGtqUiby9v5vupOH4hXWsCtfit6yfQ=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=UiIBKE0kiCmEbEgoMrs4rIBcjnAFeiz+60n/xIZ7yvnCyRMxzcgpQnN+s3UP3VrWz NkZZSTu9aYDIVKfhB2BkIIXnqbuDAOp7EtL1RK4DJzZXowv/zwTrnhDb1PR04P0Ele CS0oJO0zT1FqPpOvWcewiWM5JhT2WV55oK+/Goo+boK+2+4E3qEcaXQEKUqqYZoqes qE+Bt463XWlfyRmbM4F4MaG6b6yR8PUXfao7sknMGAUpLBz9wzPyjVO0cn74uPu8R1 7Vr5aJKxHApszKB7cc+Jgafw+Nt6N86i5ZETuDK/HYy69y090SZ6sT9dd81Tw7XhSV pCXI1Gq/mFdSA== Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 07:09:26 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#47416: Strange sentence in documentation of 'insert-file-contents' In-Reply-To: <83a6qpp2aa.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: References: <20210326181250.ykkaiotkb4mgmbmo@home-guest> <5dczvlkb8p.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83blb5pw94.fsf@gnu.org> <83a6qpp2aa.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47416 Cc: 47416@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> What about replacing "which see" with "quod vide"? It's not longer >> (eight letters and one space), and is easier to look up than both >> "which see" and "q.v.". > > ISTR that past discussions concluded that q.v. would be even more > cryptic. With "which see", at least native English speakers and those > who are used to scientific literature would immediately understand what > it means. > The only thing I see in that discussion (bug#28790) is: ""Quod vide" (qv) is arguably more conventional, but for those who haven't encountered the abbreviation or learned its meaning, it's a much tougher nut to crack." So it's about the abbreviation, not about the expression in full. I just tried, finding the meaning of "q.v." is difficult, but finding the meaning of "quod vide" is immediate. I tried to find recent occurrences of "which see" in Google Books and Google Scholar, there are none. There are some occurrences of "on which see " or "for {examples, a discussion, an overview, an assessment, ...} of which see ". It seems that all occurrences of "which see" are from the 19th century. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Mar 27 04:05:30 2021 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Mar 2021 08:05:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43362 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lQ3wo-0004hf-4A for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Mar 2021 04:05:30 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:37000) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lQ3wm-0004hP-4p; Sat, 27 Mar 2021 04:05:28 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:33135) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lQ3wf-0001HK-Rc; Sat, 27 Mar 2021 04:05:22 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2679 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lQ3wS-0004bx-1N; Sat, 27 Mar 2021 04:05:10 -0400 Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 11:05:12 +0300 Message-Id: <83zgypnhs7.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Gregory Heytings In-Reply-To: (message from Gregory Heytings on Sat, 27 Mar 2021 07:09:26 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#47416: Strange sentence in documentation of 'insert-file-contents' References: <20210326181250.ykkaiotkb4mgmbmo@home-guest> <5dczvlkb8p.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83blb5pw94.fsf@gnu.org> <83a6qpp2aa.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control Cc: 47416-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) tags 47416 wontfix thanks > Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 07:09:26 +0000 > From: Gregory Heytings > cc: 47416@debbugs.gnu.org > > > >> What about replacing "which see" with "quod vide"? It's not longer > >> (eight letters and one space), and is easier to look up than both > >> "which see" and "q.v.". > > > > ISTR that past discussions concluded that q.v. would be even more > > cryptic. With "which see", at least native English speakers and those > > who are used to scientific literature would immediately understand what > > it means. > > The only thing I see in that discussion (bug#28790) is: ""Quod vide" (qv) > is arguably more conventional, but for those who haven't encountered the > abbreviation or learned its meaning, it's a much tougher nut to crack." > So it's about the abbreviation, not about the expression in full. That's your interpretation. Anyway, we already had this discussion, so I'm closing this bug report. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Mar 27 14:31:44 2021 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Mar 2021 18:31:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44931 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lQDiq-0003V0-IF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Mar 2021 14:31:44 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:43606) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lQDip-0003Ut-2N for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Mar 2021 14:31:43 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46832) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lQDio-0005CT-Bg for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 27 Mar 2021 14:31:42 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:40874) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lQDin-0003vr-RP; Sat, 27 Mar 2021 14:31:41 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lQDil-0008D5-Fv; Sat, 27 Mar 2021 14:31:39 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Tim Lee In-Reply-To: <20210326181250.ykkaiotkb4mgmbmo@home-guest> (message from Tim Lee on Sat, 27 Mar 2021 02:12:50 +0800) Subject: Re: bug#47416: Strange sentence in documentation of 'insert-file-contents' References: <20210326181250.ykkaiotkb4mgmbmo@home-guest> Message-Id: Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 14:31:39 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > In addition, this function decodes the inserted text from known formats > > by calling `format-decode', which see. > It looks like there is something wrong about this sentence. > "... which see." — See what? See `format-decode'. "which see" after some nominal says to go look at that nominal. It is slightly old-fashioned usage but not obsolete. There is no obstacle to stating that sentence some other way if that is clearer. -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Sat Jun 21 12:11:16 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2021 11:24:04 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator