From unknown Fri Aug 15 03:37:55 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#47324 <47324@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#47324 <47324@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: Missing information in documentation Reply-To: bug#47324 <47324@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2025 10:37:55 +0000 retitle 47324 Missing information in documentation reassign 47324 coreutils submitter 47324 Walter Harms severity 47324 normal thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Mar 22 12:45:03 2021 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Mar 2021 16:45:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58370 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lONfq-0005H9-Qg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 12:45:03 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:46974) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lONZE-00057A-VF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 12:38:13 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56082) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lONZE-0000G6-Ad for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 12:38:12 -0400 Received: from mx01-sz.bfs.de ([194.94.69.67]:20923) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lONZB-0003IX-5v for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 12:38:11 -0400 Received: from SRVEX01-SZ.bfs.intern (exchange-sz.bfs.de [10.129.90.31]) by mx01-sz.bfs.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A0FDA20616 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 17:37:59 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bfs.de; s=dkim201901; t=1616431079; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding; bh=QclEe+XxZRzDr9YWGQ0HRhPESaZcCmNKjDHhJOus5X8=; b=EGldVlhJuUmz/yBCg3xu/z6SazqfeEUga1Tu8R/V+C8kpw8wPu8eHyPHIE5gS4yOsFPozu tl5Z86Tw7oyITfiBcLHxjlfpqUE3N1+3rri/rm/QP3jKmY4bBvX6YqilLqTJ2xjbYp8IPA xjbr1CwV72SGUR5a9P7OqkxAa9YktUkDSJgF8xWv7Gu83oX39cBneSTOgFE3QwRvhkHI6d EwAU9p9NlrtJVuQsg7dCyrV0uB8foFfAEXuDucAgV0OHddHW3pSVENhSl+7iDzlYe7jRN9 GyrEUYZNX3Ab8j7/QffqMg4cM91Im3HZPGDgptR9B+0g0AHzB0Fmi55IL5KDgA== Received: from SRVEX01-SZ.bfs.intern (10.129.90.31) by SRVEX01-SZ.bfs.intern (10.129.90.31) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.2176.2; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 17:37:58 +0100 Received: from SRVEX01-SZ.bfs.intern ([fe80::7d2d:f9cb:2761:d24a]) by SRVEX01-SZ.bfs.intern ([fe80::7d2d:f9cb:2761:d24a%13]) with mapi id 15.01.2176.009; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 17:37:58 +0100 From: Walter Harms To: "bug-coreutils@gnu.org" Subject: Missing information in documentation Thread-Topic: Missing information in documentation Thread-Index: AQHXHzkzc/UXfEqSi0WH9f1Vx84tsg== Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2021 16:37:58 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.137.16.40] x-tm-as-product-ver: SMEX-14.0.0.3080-8.6.1012-26046.001 x-tm-as-result: No-10-2.014100-5.000000 x-tmase-matchedrid: NhVFA49szMjRubRCcrbc5grcxrzwsv5u3dCmvEa6IiGoLZarzrrPmdfp ogskkxeXhamnXLD4Y0XXNC6HGuGs1m2EnshdEio25x61kcWHbRb+MnTlbH/dxVc/CedjlcvkRph daShSOy3fn3q7r3cC12ivLll7h+Hdv1l2Uvx6idqWlioo2ZbGwdmzcdRxL+xwKrauXd3MZDVA3U pxpSeeI88QOncguYiaovd3oa46D305jgHk8dSLbfvO7jWSqPKy0F0/6P4dAgkYZ/VglaZ7M8T23 QUyQJ4V/CAjy65zRhwiSQLLbs+My48XflJirxyqAxLGAEH1YQjPJLI7E3gmkf4Fo47cRJ4RQwym txuJ6y0= x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: No x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No x-tmase-result: 10-2.014100-5.000000 x-tmase-version: SMEX-14.0.0.3080-8.6.1012-26046.001 x-tm-snts-smtp: 59A528F4EF348098CF373269909D745819D963DA6DACBECA6B9C0F9B937AE2142000:9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-16.95 / 7.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; HAS_XOIP(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DKIM_SIGNED(0.00)[bfs.de:s=dkim201901]; WHITELIST_LOCAL_IP(-15.00)[10.129.90.31]; NEURAL_HAM(-0.00)[-1.000]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; BAYES_HAM(-1.95)[94.76%] Authentication-Results: mx01-sz.bfs.de; none X-Spam-Status: No, score=-16.95 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=194.94.69.67; envelope-from=wharms@bfs.de; helo=mx01-sz.bfs.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 22 Mar 2021 12:45:01 -0400 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) hi list, in the documentation (man page) a nice feature is mssing when a fs is mounted on a directory ls marks that with a dot behing the permission mask (see example) drwxr-xr-x. 2 1003 users 4096 Mar 22 17:53 vendor ^^ notice the dot here I found nothing mentioned in the documentation. hope that helps. re, wh From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Mar 22 18:21:43 2021 Received: (at 47324-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Mar 2021 22:21:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59066 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lOSvf-0007Z0-EZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 18:21:43 -0400 Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([217.72.192.75]:38383) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lOSvd-0007Yl-Cb for 47324-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 18:21:41 -0400 Received: from [192.168.101.10] ([91.12.168.50]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue106 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MYvHa-1lBLsy0DHU-00UndH; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 23:21:32 +0100 Subject: Re: bug#47324: Missing information in documentation To: Walter Harms , 47324-done@debbugs.gnu.org References: From: Bernhard Voelker Message-ID: <251b8060-391c-f170-5e90-8d67acd9d9d4@bernhard-voelker.de> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2021 23:21:31 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.8.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:vAT81w12vz9j51YbVrECsmIFb/RsVhFgxXOITZj3ploW0NrUrmh VoVcSqembjAcYiZ9m+JPIQKWsVWdXz0pSHiOvB+ILcThp3pazP8lwl1X9JesZyp4r0VAjIM 3+PIeHvE5QusxgimuuikNjrkU7r4bBSgKNYygKYKOJpDYLOk1i1g81B+U192QWK8wym1oDQ 00bJV+msUPJFy5pq6WChg== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:NqCIMjmkHwg=:jRwXxI7GpSuBzb4xC5oi6U xwAPLLtIuC0SMj5OpX1T8kpF1CIUMZTiGpNGicfN3q6yi5ZT80VTpnEd01xtz6R5U4LMx9Jba KylTKsPW5J1X9+UsDbN1fy4EIK2O44snlvkrab/q5gmPxWKHWMzae+FodWwYdh9wBbRM7y/sy pt3sizIOjaS1IVJD7jeSjaKUz0VtpLMeS0Y7l7eov9tUFDT8AxRm86JMUAOI+dYFKR8UbRJ7Y O07pUSj+TS74iBqD2/A/x9LvxYsJ0PXw4UteTvYtMVk/Ic7d8ZudxcH+tAfe79y502bXCOffV Wqk8xaLF3vWnTMS8u3CVNOeSoDjZxnK8UCYKy1Ro6ndw62w3x0a3uptTDMBwxQ0zmBIO/W15D nHFPjx5ZeUXaQLVLd1Tenzn/YVFLqPLNzryfHtX4dRsh33zFRv7ZxBAAQYltlz44gFNkUiq4Q lvaQqtoSYg== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47324-done X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 3/22/21 5:37 PM, Walter Harms via GNU coreutils Bug Reports wrote: > hi list, > in the documentation (man page) [...] According to the GNU guidelines and to avoid double work, the man page of the coreutils is essentially not much more than the output of --help (and actually gets generated via that). Instead, the real documentation is available via the Texinfo manual, which is available in diverse formats. In a usual installation, it is reachable via: $ info '(coreutils) ls invocation' Alternative formats include HTML, PDF etc., see: https://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/manual/ > [...] nice feature is mssing > when a fs is mounted on a directory ls marks that with a dot > behing the permission mask (see example) > > drwxr-xr-x. 2 1003 users 4096 Mar 22 17:53 vendor > ^^ > notice the dot here > > I found nothing mentioned in the documentation. It is documented in the section about the '-l' option: https://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/manual/html_node/What-information-is-listed.html [...] Following the file mode bits is a single character that specifies whether an alternate access method such as an access control list applies to the file. When the character following the file mode bits is a space, there is no alternate access method. When it is a printing character, then there is such a method. GNU ls uses a ‘.’ character to indicate a file with a security context, but no other alternate access method. A file with any other combination of alternate access methods is marked with a ‘+’ character. Assuming that this section is clear enough, I'm hereby marking this as done in our bug tracker. Of course, the discussion can continue, and we could even reopen the issue if needed. Have a nice day, Berny From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Mar 23 11:47:59 2021 Received: (at 47324-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Mar 2021 15:47:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32796 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lOjGA-0002Ky-Ig for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Mar 2021 11:47:59 -0400 Received: from mx01-sz.bfs.de ([194.94.69.67]:26903) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lOe77-00046d-OY for 47324-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Mar 2021 06:18:19 -0400 Received: from SRVEX01-SZ.bfs.intern (exchange-sz.bfs.de [10.129.90.31]) by mx01-sz.bfs.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 34E8A2036B; Tue, 23 Mar 2021 11:18:09 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bfs.de; s=dkim201901; t=1616494689; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=1OlgJHCvn3rJCZE1yffqjcfTE4ePYzC1Wn7/KpquInA=; b=MTmv/1ZM0GV5wgpNHaKCWnC7cgYYhBHvoYKz5fZv4j6CSU4d7tZwn1HO/GgcFta7gxGvs1 c+58ZDS2itpoC0bOQkOGmMXKY8edrY+ZrdnCqzb1cE+eYbT53r1MGPB2mbWR78gWg4vbeM bulJgcsuE1upZORbMLq/5qq+tm2sZ3a7mOFz11d2yICHMXeYtjgxHwPXuj/NRgbw6q3Ckz C/6ypeMr9+Kv52PqIvapTFsRsQgHrK1xE6dYkI29ltoVc9xXVeEus5Zey3cFcCpzfGyEsC J6a11Zj57KGBrmd/tG01OjFJ2XJan4x77vDqn976flZzfxtKSiVY4TcKc69yjQ== Received: from SRVEX01-SZ.bfs.intern (10.129.90.31) by SRVEX01-SZ.bfs.intern (10.129.90.31) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.2176.2; Tue, 23 Mar 2021 11:18:08 +0100 Received: from SRVEX01-SZ.bfs.intern ([fe80::7d2d:f9cb:2761:d24a]) by SRVEX01-SZ.bfs.intern ([fe80::7d2d:f9cb:2761:d24a%13]) with mapi id 15.01.2176.009; Tue, 23 Mar 2021 11:18:08 +0100 From: Walter Harms To: Bernhard Voelker , "47324-done@debbugs.gnu.org" <47324-done@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: AW: bug#47324: Missing information in documentation Thread-Topic: bug#47324: Missing information in documentation Thread-Index: AQHXHzkzc/UXfEqSi0WH9f1Vx84tsqqQhDWAgADSrLY= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2021 10:18:08 +0000 Message-ID: <24451d2a7ed046d5ac41a2a24022adfd@bfs.de> References: , <251b8060-391c-f170-5e90-8d67acd9d9d4@bernhard-voelker.de> In-Reply-To: <251b8060-391c-f170-5e90-8d67acd9d9d4@bernhard-voelker.de> Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.137.16.40] x-tm-as-product-ver: SMEX-14.0.0.3080-8.6.1012-26046.006 x-tm-as-result: No-10--9.084000-5.000000 x-tmase-matchedrid: qMoZlrz0XKom4NZXvR5twRvgzEPRJaDEKQNhMboqZloTiSW9r3PknArV qGrinAXDKx+OtoDsQwspqjiZNhCgAkhOq1If1JZJVvRU70CYUV0vV5f7P0HVDHrnJezHTcPEpxT YcWU3u1A+EbcLhsn25zRvGKF0N4rRflJ76zYbjz/dOaMxXy5omc59tuYOMXu1rcN9BdgNdeazfZ HdXPtyJjCD3Spk/bGMQTkyyI51CmkhvPo19NQG7oR4m9rj7TBdkdXGsIxuGNny+gONHZfuXMc3w B+edZSio6/uyPHacA2PWx38Q1qIm7BAQLqGlKivWnQHHkRrIIVBHuVYxc8DWyFTAALyF60aPlAW wfVA2w4KF9uFJdNNyTiPMEPSOipfKuJ7X5THBj2dVNZaI2n6/w7ykmiMbupKY8r/ndGdDsVPC2F PZYnjsJMe2V3mxt0AV4kZyBpe9RMXv1XVN1vhCmxZ52CskxD+rFP4l9ANsI+KXNybanokT5sDGg 7Mg+MFQdcDXAfBVdTvK3TBvg+vxQOPKROgEivfiZH+akICId0FeeAjqMW+l66LIk1kYT+JiU6SX dXvaT4wDPokoqVvEsXTs2uxQc2dtU4lqmVgqI+4ULcxqX6De3iywgNDw+2ov3k52YnXvwG+5FXa 6NpZFIAyDrPGp0vHrrvHVamMRbM3KXWd30Ii3YMbH85DUZXy3QfwsVk0UbtuRXh7bFKB7ugPbi2 VuueTOoPh+duBhQTrXk3U0TXVMAtMqjrApAl5sBTJSD2iAW0= x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: No x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No x-tmase-result: 10--9.084000-5.000000 x-tmase-version: SMEX-14.0.0.3080-8.6.1012-26046.006 x-tm-snts-smtp: 2FC0100D022AF732C015C51B7BE8AD1326FE2D51C8AD53E87040987FD0D8CB5D2000:9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-18.00 / 7.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; HAS_XOIP(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DKIM_SIGNED(0.00)[bfs.de:s=dkim201901]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; WHITELIST_LOCAL_IP(-15.00)[10.129.90.31]; NEURAL_HAM(-0.00)[-1.000]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; BAYES_HAM(-3.00)[99.98%] Authentication-Results: mx01-sz.bfs.de; none X-Spam-Status: No, score=-18.00 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47324-done X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 23 Mar 2021 11:47:57 -0400 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) In my case there was no security context involved. It was a loop device mounted (that i was not aware of, the image was already gone). and rm -r stoped here because of "in use". I expected some mentioning of mount somewhere. re, wh ________________________________________ Von: Bernhard Voelker Gesendet: Montag, 22. M=E4rz 2021 23:21 An: Walter Harms; 47324-done@debbugs.gnu.org Betreff: Re: bug#47324: Missing information in documentation WARNUNG: Diese E-Mail kam von au=DFerhalb der Organisation. Klicken Sie nic= ht auf Links oder =F6ffnen Sie keine Anh=E4nge, es sei denn, Sie kennen den= /die Absender*in und wissen, dass der Inhalt sicher ist. On 3/22/21 5:37 PM, Walter Harms via GNU coreutils Bug Reports wrote: > hi list, > in the documentation (man page) [...] According to the GNU guidelines and to avoid double work, the man page of the coreutils is essentially not much more than the output of --help (and actually gets generated via that). Instead, the real documentation is available via the Texinfo manual, which is available in diverse formats. In a usual installation, it is reachable via: $ info '(coreutils) ls invocation' Alternative formats include HTML, PDF etc., see: https://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/manual/ > [...] nice feature is mssing > when a fs is mounted on a directory ls marks that with a dot > behing the permission mask (see example) > > drwxr-xr-x. 2 1003 users 4096 Mar 22 17:53 vendor > ^^ > notice the dot here > > I found nothing mentioned in the documentation. It is documented in the section about the '-l' option: https://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/manual/html_node/What-information-= is-listed.html [...] Following the file mode bits is a single character that specifies whether= an alternate access method such as an access control list applies to the fil= e. When the character following the file mode bits is a space, there is no a= lternate access method. When it is a printing character, then there is such a meth= od. GNU ls uses a =91.=92 character to indicate a file with a security contex= t, but no other alternate access method. A file with any other combination of alternate access methods is marked w= ith a =91+=92 character. Assuming that this section is clear enough, I'm hereby marking this as done in our bug tracker. Of course, the discussion can continue, and we could ev= en reopen the issue if needed. Have a nice day, Berny From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Mar 25 09:49:50 2021 Received: (at 47324) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Mar 2021 13:49:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37549 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lPQMv-0007vl-V9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Mar 2021 09:49:50 -0400 Received: from ishtar.tlinx.org ([173.164.175.65]:51540 helo=Ishtar.sc.tlinx.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lPQMu-0007vb-AY for 47324@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Mar 2021 09:49:48 -0400 Received: from [192.168.3.12] (Athenae [192.168.3.12]) by Ishtar.sc.tlinx.org (8.14.7/8.14.4/SuSE Linux 0.8) with ESMTP id 12PDnZ5S021283; Thu, 25 Mar 2021 06:49:37 -0700 Message-ID: <605C94F0.30002@tlinx.org> Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 06:49:36 -0700 From: L A Walsh User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 47324@debbugs.gnu.org, mail@bernhard-voelker.de, wharms@bfs.de Subject: Re: bug#47324: Missing information in documentation References: <251b8060-391c-f170-5e90-8d67acd9d9d4@bernhard-voelker.de> In-Reply-To: <251b8060-391c-f170-5e90-8d67acd9d9d4@bernhard-voelker.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47324 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 2021/03/22 15:21, Bernhard Voelker wrote: > > According to the GNU guidelines and to avoid double work, the man page of > the coreutils is essentially not much more than the output of --help. > --- It sure would be nice if GNU would join the *nix family and put full documentation in the manpage (as well as or in place of putting it in 'info'). If languages such as python and perl can document their usage in manpages, certainly gnu could be as helpful. -l From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Mar 25 11:05:46 2021 Received: (at 47324) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Mar 2021 15:05:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39223 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lPRYQ-00020m-18 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Mar 2021 11:05:46 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:50256) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lPRYN-00020W-1G for 47324@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Mar 2021 11:05:44 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDFFA1600BC; Thu, 25 Mar 2021 08:05:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id Lbk-eeLsq9mc; Thu, 25 Mar 2021 08:05:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BEB1160119; Thu, 25 Mar 2021 08:05:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id x31M2CYQcWgC; Thu, 25 Mar 2021 08:05:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (cpe-23-243-218-95.socal.res.rr.com [23.243.218.95]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0E53C1600BC; Thu, 25 Mar 2021 08:05:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#47324: Missing information in documentation To: L A Walsh , 47324@debbugs.gnu.org, mail@bernhard-voelker.de, wharms@bfs.de References: <251b8060-391c-f170-5e90-8d67acd9d9d4@bernhard-voelker.de> <605C94F0.30002@tlinx.org> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 08:05:35 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <605C94F0.30002@tlinx.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47324 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) On 3/25/21 6:49 AM, L A Walsh wrote: > =C2=A0=C2=A0 If languages such as python and perl can document their u= sage > in manpages, certainly gnu could be as helpful. You must be joking. Python and Perl are not fully documented in=20 manpages. Most free-software projects treat manpages the way the Gnu=20 project does, or don't even bother with manpages. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Mar 25 11:37:16 2021 Received: (at 47324) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Mar 2021 15:37:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39297 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lPS2u-0002vy-Jh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Mar 2021 11:37:16 -0400 Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.28]:33745) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lPS2t-0002vk-Eo for 47324@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Mar 2021 11:37:16 -0400 Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 313085C00E3; Thu, 25 Mar 2021 11:37:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imap21 ([10.202.2.71]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 25 Mar 2021 11:37:10 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zplane.com; h= mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to :subject:content-type; s=fm3; bh=BIHwXoGZMrJ8K8omqUVtnoGkn1k6N9u N4CZi6B4e4DI=; b=U8e3AYxMfC47O5aYaP0vhuoN+O6yGg5ya88gzEEPxpKRlJj R425fYUWccBXyxRoyf18oVKTWaM8TC9zNrhBCPJOk3Wb+1GjyKYjLMPdlNjHZ4NM 4GEJUSJiJc4CdJvocJ7WIP5OholWYpmpr0GmejkMpP6bfJDzdTDg5gw/R7+Fdwfj HEKvRC5ugPWhW0c1chac4Gl6IH6LsabGoC0aZf0WZ4Q0bfLDAycLN6U2zE/TctJO Lue2+l4pjtm4lbx/+8X/DG9ncEDB+J5NSPH6DuS/P1DLWsbZ0OQTpQHsplkQp7+R AbgYNiYzEKUVqzBRW1EVTdmrlnyluK+owYzy/ug== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=BIHwXo GZMrJ8K8omqUVtnoGkn1k6N9uN4CZi6B4e4DI=; b=ZU0vsUqTkwv5vQXWHXw/An 6cKeJOyDkXf0ju97k++ncgTeDdHNxbtI/BfZjCBAIifsyKZLYNVZ19mvjbA0sKJn OKe8jPI5wn9qTJscEDvkbklxDAZZaeYdC8Dn+BCjUFUoqAqhaBqDBbm9xKnMuK64 CI2t8lN7FVMiDezgjKCZ4tYGaVEekb1PIpNwf6/9oAi04u39ujdRH+GKdQ8xkI1G 9uxGG9GM8bybHYUMIOUZwlSPhMoH6ZDxZJGzD6jx/OXFrR/kzNjO3BMiPSFk+QHn 9edoTWHHA1zhbLSw5h5OKjr8R5bH/pfsoXCk7jdwzI3M/QKFjiHnwQhV4tZT6MHQ == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledrudehtddgjeelucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefofgggkfgjfhffhffvufgtsehttd ertderredtnecuhfhrohhmpedfifhlvghnnhcuifholhguvghnfdcuoehgughgseiiphhl rghnvgdrtghomheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnheptedtfeehveevleeuvdegjeefhedutd ejffeiieeijeegjeeiudfflefguddtteetnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfr rghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepghgughesiihplhgrnhgvrdgtohhm X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 1FD6C51C005E; Thu, 25 Mar 2021 11:37:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.5.0-alpha0-273-g8500d2492d-fm-20210323.002-g8500d249 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <605C94F0.30002@tlinx.org> References: <251b8060-391c-f170-5e90-8d67acd9d9d4@bernhard-voelker.de> <605C94F0.30002@tlinx.org> Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 09:36:48 -0600 From: "Glenn Golden" To: "L A Walsh" , 47324@debbugs.gnu.org, mail@bernhard-voelker.de, wharms@bfs.de Subject: Re: bug#47324: Missing information in documentation Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47324 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Thu, Mar 25, 2021, at 07:49, L A Walsh wrote: > On 2021/03/22 15:21, Bernhard Voelker wrote: > > > > According to the GNU guidelines and to avoid double work, the man page of > > the coreutils is essentially not much more than the output of --help. > > > --- > It sure would be nice if GNU would join the *nix family and > put full documentation in the manpage (as well as or in place of > putting it in 'info'). > > If languages such as python and perl can document their usage > in manpages, certainly gnu could be as helpful. > > Perl is by no means fully documented via its man pages. And the top-level man page (perl.1perl) has made that explicit up front for many years. The present language (perl.1perl, from 5.32.1) is: "Some documentation is not available as man pages, so if a cross- reference is not found by man, try it with perldoc." Perl's perldoc(1) is more or less analogous in spirit to GNU's approach based on info(1). The man pages contain quite a bit of useful info, but do not purport to be exhaustive. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Mar 25 19:00:33 2021 Received: (at 47324-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Mar 2021 23:00:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39791 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lPYxt-0005YM-KT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Mar 2021 19:00:33 -0400 Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([212.227.126.135]:38467) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lPYxr-0005Y9-Pv for 47324-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Mar 2021 19:00:32 -0400 Received: from [192.168.101.10] ([91.12.168.50]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue011 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1M277h-1lN67j2gED-002TkC; Fri, 26 Mar 2021 00:00:22 +0100 Subject: Re: bug#47324: AW: bug#47324: Missing information in documentation To: Walter Harms , "47324-done@debbugs.gnu.org" <47324-done@debbugs.gnu.org> References: <251b8060-391c-f170-5e90-8d67acd9d9d4@bernhard-voelker.de> <24451d2a7ed046d5ac41a2a24022adfd@bfs.de> From: Bernhard Voelker Message-ID: <17849a9d-712a-6a95-096a-0ee9d5d72fe5@bernhard-voelker.de> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 00:00:21 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.8.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <24451d2a7ed046d5ac41a2a24022adfd@bfs.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:UMjwo3FCHnfFdugFhqhBgq7Q8IPXr7+yi0yZbksNMO7kWIdpxXd z8cTY/EO9N9TvSK6Nx/eHRtYi6JoCqwvf4u635LBYbmHTI1TUNkWEO8Dg7NQ6eMzXdsJOaM rvneWcBOlBG0qYEMWNOE9YTw+DsXGmegw2qLJBCqvyuVL5E2fP7iw4ex0RSrC6A3CzGRhKe ZZ00UQweKgK94qOyRb8iw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:s+03XOC6maQ=:h0Vn9I6nIVgfW08kNKFnar yr0G+zkViKVCl6XDFBDuV43iYPGzVemm4P6MK9Z8JsCEK4NXCcAmR6KOOwekang3i+bq97qTI eLOpLC2D5DSK4f7r9EdnzuqclLWQre3AOFOExYsN6vaF2ZBjx0doZYncmitwP6e78FaqsDoGg /6YDXcmNI7UNaEFqHJ+eZ5KTPgJzJFBKjux9VFSWZPuYZMBXvyNbCtC9xRPSXJAcAnxWeV3hZ MOKROcpHYabB3jtJ0QitnOMNeh2TZTFxvqro2SBwwmAqzfMb1Tgp+vpX5+6qJ5/U60/if1NIJ brNDIDlF2BFn6SDpObG6fS+2a0GwJx2A1GvLk1APJd0DrVecBDJu97n1WLbTUZjE/eyYjV3+M y97dz6OMejaB7XxBnSiItYbASufUatQ+KzTywD530WzpyX6fsrxuTL0Rm+3Q7RgaZnzxDZWlQ hEluEB2/F1+A5jTWQqWPlsmpUW4elrclset1yLxPayuOcnSu54YT X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47324-done X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 3/23/21 11:18 AM, Walter Harms via GNU coreutils Bug Reports wrote: > In my case there was no security context involved. > It was a loop device mounted (that i was not aware of, > the image was already gone). > and rm -r stoped here because of "in use". > > I expected some mentioning of mount somewhere. According to the source code [1], the directory must have had a security context set. [1] https://git.sv.gnu.org/cgit/coreutils.git/tree/src/ls.c?id=4698e284f#n4243 So if it was a mount point, then the only logical conclusion is that the top-most directory of the mounted filesystem had this security context set. Reproducer: # Create an EXT4 file system and loop-mount it. $ dd if=/dev/zero of=x.img bs=1M count=128 status=none $ mkfs.ext4 -q x.img $ mount -o loop x.img /mnt # Initially, there's no security context, hence no '.' after the permission string. $ ls -ld /mnt drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 1024 Mar 25 23:54 /mnt # Apply a security context. $ setfattr -n security.selinux -v somevalue /mnt # Now, ls(1) prints the '.' after the permission string as a hint to the security context. $ ls -ld /mnt drwxr-xr-x. 3 root root 1024 Mar 25 23:54 /mnt Have a nice day, Berny From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Mar 25 19:06:13 2021 Received: (at 47324) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Mar 2021 23:06:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39809 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lPZ3N-0005gr-1B for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Mar 2021 19:06:13 -0400 Received: from ishtar.tlinx.org ([173.164.175.65]:45038 helo=Ishtar.sc.tlinx.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lPZ3L-0005gh-Dx for 47324@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Mar 2021 19:06:11 -0400 Received: from [192.168.3.12] (Athenae [192.168.3.12]) by Ishtar.sc.tlinx.org (8.14.7/8.14.4/SuSE Linux 0.8) with ESMTP id 12PN5rkY054845; Thu, 25 Mar 2021 16:05:56 -0700 Message-ID: <605D1753.6030302@tlinx.org> Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 16:05:55 -0700 From: L A Walsh User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Glenn Golden , Paul Eggert Subject: Re: bug#47324: Missing information in documentation References: <251b8060-391c-f170-5e90-8d67acd9d9d4@bernhard-voelker.de> <605C94F0.30002@tlinx.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47324 Cc: mail@bernhard-voelker.de, wharms@bfs.de, 47324@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 2021/03/25 08:36, Glenn Golden wrote: > Perl's perldoc(1) is more or less analogous in spirit to GNU's > approach based on info(1). The man pages contain quite a bit of > useful info, but do not purport to be exhaustive. > ===== On 2021/03/25 08:05, Paul Eggert wrote: > Most free-software projects treat manpages the way the Gnu > project does, or don't even bother with manpages. > Re: perldoc analogous to info: Perl, by default, installs all of its perldocs as manpages. Distro supplied modules follow the same practice. CPAN modules usually have their information installed as manpages. Individual packages that don't follow existing standards may not be converted. So yeah, that's analogous to .info: Gnu who does their own thing doesn't supply full docs in manpages -- doesn't really try. --- Re: "most"[sic] fs projs... Most or all of perl's base language information is installed as manpages. As for 'most free-sw', if it is GUI based or windows based, *nix manpages don't exist in their world. If a project is run via the command line on *nix, the manpages are the primary documentation -- for MOST free-sw targeting the *nix cmdline. Gnu is one of the worst offenders in *nix-cmdline-sw for not following that standard. Arguing the point w/Gnu-SW-devs who refuse to consider outside viewpoints isn't very useful. Cheers! From unknown Fri Aug 15 03:37:55 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2021 11:24:07 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator