Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 0/4] Make certbot play more nicely with nginx

From: Carlo Zancanaro <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2024 08:48:54 +1100

Hi Felix,

On Tue, Jan 30 2024, Felix Lechner wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 30 2024, Carlo Zancanaro wrote:
>> certbot can't produce certificates without a functional nginx
>
> Yes, it can. The option is called --standalone. [1]

You are correct, of course. If I had been more precise I would 
have said "with our current configuration, certbot can't produce 
certificates without a functional nginx".

> Maybe another way to bootstrap the certificates would be to hold 
> off on starting Nginx or Apache until all certificates are 
> obtained?

This could work, but I see a few downsides.

As Clément has already mentioned, this would make nginx dependent 
on certbot. This causes problems for servers disconnected from the 
general internet, but it also shifts complexity into the nginx 
service without much benefit over the patch series I'm proposing. 
We'd need to add more configuration on the nginx side to control 
whether to delay startup based on whether we actually want 
certificates. This would delay the startup of the whole nginx 
process, even if some server configurations don't require new 
certificates.

For renewal, we would also have two options: (1) use --standalone, 
and require a period of downtime for our web server; or (2) use 
--webroot, and maintain two code paths for the two cases. I think 
it's a bad idea for Guix to make a decision that requires downtime 
of user systems if there's an alternative, so I don't like (1). 
Maintaining two "similar but different" code paths for (2) doesn't 
seem like a clear advantage over the patch series I'm proposing.

> Anyway, that's what I do manually.

I use the DNS challenge type, with hooks which automatically 
create/remove DNS records. This solves all the problems I'm 
bringing up (i.e. doesn't require nginx, doesn't involve downtime, 
has a single code path), but I don't think Guix can assume that 
all users have the ability to do this. My aim with this patch 
series is to make the default certbot configuration work for the 
common case of a simple web server, without manual intervention.

Carlo