From unknown Sat Sep 06 10:02:43 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#46839 <46839@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#46839 <46839@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: describe-variable should say something slightly different about invisibly defined variables Reply-To: bug#46839 <46839@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 17:02:43 +0000 retitle 46839 describe-variable should say something slightly different abo= ut invisibly defined variables reassign 46839 emacs submitter 46839 =E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC Dan Jacobson severity 46839 normal tag 46839 fixed thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 28 22:25:16 2021 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Mar 2021 03:25:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47680 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lGZBM-0003Bi-Gz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; 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Sun, 28 Feb 2021 19:25:05 -0800 (PST) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a29 From: =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: describe-variable should say something slightly different about invisibly defined variables Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2021 23:41:23 +0800 Message-ID: <87tupw6vz0.5.fsf@jidanni.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=23.83.212.47; envelope-from=jidanni@jidanni.org; helo=cyan.elm.relay.mailchannels.net X-Spam_score_int: -5 X-Spam_score: -0.6 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DATE_IN_PAST_06_12=1.543, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) describe-variable says gnus-draft-setup-hook is a variable defined in =E2=80=98gnus-draft.el=E2= =80=99. gnus-draft-mode-hook is a variable defined in =E2=80=98gnus-draft.el=E2= =80=99. However one can be found in that file, one can't. describe-variable could not be lying, therefore the one that can't be found must still be declared, in some new invisible way. Fine. However please make the help message output a little different, so we will know if we are about to have a wild goose chase looking for it or not. "Well just click the link. If it is invisibly defined, you will just go to the top of the file." Yes, but still, please make the wording a little different: E.g., gnus-draft-setup-hook is a variable defined in =E2=80=98gnus-= draft.el=E2=80=99. gnus-draft-mode-hook is a variable invisibly defined in =E2=80=98gnus-= draft.el=E2=80=99. (Proof: $ zgrep gnus-draft-.*hook *.el.gz gnus-draft.el.gz:(defcustom gnus-draft-setup-hook nil gnus-draft.el.gz: (run-hooks 'gnus-draft-setup-hook)))) OK. Now let's change some values and see what describe-variable says. gnus-draft-mode-hook is a variable defined in =E2=80=98gnus-draft.el=E2=80= =99. Its value is ((lambda nil (goto-char (- (point-max) 1)))) gnus-draft-setup-hook is a variable defined in =E2=80=98gnus-draft.el=E2=80= =99. Its value is ((lambda nil (goto-char (- (point-max) 1)))) Original value was nil gnus-summary-article-move-hook is a variable defined in =E2=80=98gnus-sum= .el=E2=80=99. Its value is nil We can tell the second one, gnus-draft-setup-hook was chagnged by us, because the Original value was mentioned. But for the first and third, well one we tinkered with, and one we didn't. But ah ha! There is no way to tell from the wording. >From the wording one guesses both still have the origninal value. emacs-version "27.1" From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Mar 01 08:03:28 2021 Received: (at 46839) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Mar 2021 13:03:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48429 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lGiCu-0007Bi-4l for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2021 08:03:28 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:42116) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lGiCs-0007BV-Gw for 46839@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2021 08:03:27 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=bBHx2JDQZZBa2NLSuF00370lPE+9ITFmcPTOlllnEe0=; b=YSs55A3UlxOg6w/6wtNju1bDi7 7gTe1R6S4nFaS5C9Lnv6dALUb9UTusB4W2CCf+rg7SvPcnTcmtCpBVDSl25ZGds9Vij3DfJB9wGUV IywQhGiWoi0l1tYeVcyt4PXjuYKPX98GiPn5Yf+ncW4Nhvy0jOBdogyDvOq62EcforUw=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lGiCk-00020w-Gd; Mon, 01 Mar 2021 14:03:20 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson Subject: Re: bug#46839: describe-variable should say something slightly different about invisibly defined variables References: <87tupw6vz0.5.fsf@jidanni.org> X-Now-Playing: Big Thief's _Two Hands_: "Wolf" Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2021 14:03:17 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87tupw6vz0.5.fsf@jidanni.org> (=?utf-8?B?IuepjeS4ueWwvA==?= Dan Jacobson"'s message of "Sun, 28 Feb 2021 23:41:23 +0800") Message-ID: <87ft1f81re.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson writes: > describe-variable says > gnus-draft-setup-hook is a variable defined in ‘gnus-draft.el’. > gnus-draft-mode-hook is a variable defined in ‘gnus-draft.el’. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 46839 Cc: 46839@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) =E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC Dan Jacobson writes: > describe-variable says > gnus-draft-setup-hook is a variable defined in =E2=80=98gnus-draft.el= =E2=80=99. > gnus-draft-mode-hook is a variable defined in =E2=80=98gnus-draft.el= =E2=80=99. [...] > "Well just click the link. If it is invisibly defined, you will just go > to the top of the file." You've reported something like this before, and told that it's fixed in Emacs 28.=20=20 It's still fixed in Emacs 28. You do not have to report this more times. Closing. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Mar 01 08:03:39 2021 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Mar 2021 13:03:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48432 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lGiD5-0007CA-Du for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2021 08:03:39 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:42130) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lGiD3-0007Bv-I2 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2021 08:03:37 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Yt04oTdKHIuiyQsz8oeyj1gsTi0U/M+ScEruRK6dArw=; b=WGRetz4RKuFNJisaC1M9Ody936 Wf+YnlklWW68M8NUsnpA4i0qJ7Q3OlmgLzT7+XukxMIncxYfMCyRRHafLqepIMaj3QPbyKqwf8bEW 2gPLT04WtwnMvYnYOT/RsI3lOL52EyzYfpoVYBs4rQxfnJ7AlVT7keA1zS/ocVQ3HTDA=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lGiCv-000215-Vn for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2021 14:03:32 +0100 Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2021 14:03:28 +0100 Message-Id: <87eegz81r3.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #46839 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 46839 fixed close 46839 28.1 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 46839 fixed close 46839 28.1 quit From unknown Sat Sep 06 10:02:43 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. 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