From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Feb 08 10:39:30 2021 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Feb 2021 15:39:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51708 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l98dM-0002RB-Vy for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2021 10:39:30 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:47224) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l96bu-0007Jv-2i for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2021 08:29:51 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45368) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l96bh-0001h6-NV for bug-guix@gnu.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2021 08:29:40 -0500 Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([178.21.23.139]:37488) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l96bJ-00035T-Jr for bug-guix@gnu.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2021 08:29:37 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by disroot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BEE450E1C for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2021 14:29:07 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at disroot.org Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (disroot.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with UTF8SMTP id iV7OPIpV9D9H for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2021 14:29:05 +0100 (CET) Mime-Version: 1.0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=disroot.org; s=mail; t=1612790920; bh=BKBteqPG0QQv1RndGHKYdmmrYGa2OWd7U/dKlM3dmuY=; h=Date:From:Subject:To; b=jDOmENtkl6q1k6rd2WOT1aMPjzQE3sJqwNRo8V90MJj4yE1pPYLx6rFGlfkO/6y2h W2u3ZCbD1N6Hpui3JJLNI2hUnQ166sKjdWLC22dhv5PGR8Dea/xXKiExDnYR3LDfBc BvGNaR1/juTWYIqQ6LndNgXj7w9e3BH1vobgLUEowi5tt6L7fUUXtCGizy1sHTKBms bjgo2Nq4sd9Hdn1pKcSLN/ZPnVppiwwCcE3+N6kpF3kbP88zWLgSonOXy3gZvBpvxs Gf3D5f1J7Wo4JZ4iP8AqKuHw2qwxvJvGrvMO4pG+zC24cYjsBTYNOznna+KKhH2ajd ICfIlJpoBC3Ig== Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2021 13:28:40 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--=_RainLoop_175_216542502.1612790920" From: soheil@disroot.org Message-ID: Subject: User awareness of Anti-Features To: bug-guix@gnu.org Received-SPF: pass client-ip=178.21.23.139; envelope-from=soheil@disroot.org; helo=knopi.disroot.org X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 08 Feb 2021 10:39:28 -0500 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) ----=_RainLoop_175_216542502.1612790920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Users should be aware of anti-feature of packages.=0AIt is best to have a= nti-feature tag in anti-feature packages so that user know which program = has anti-features; Like F-Droid. Also, user should be aware of anti-featu= re during installation. And wherever this awareness is needed...=0A=0AAn = example is Telegram, Telegram is a program that user connects to a propri= etary server, and users who know less about computer softwares, are not a= ware of the anti-feature. ----=_RainLoop_175_216542502.1612790920 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
U= sers should be aware of anti-feature of packages.
It is best to have a= nti-feature tag in anti-feature packages so that user know which program = has anti-features; Like F-Droid. Also, user should be aware of anti-featu= re during installation. And wherever this awareness is needed...

A= n example is Telegram, Telegram is a program that user connects to a prop= rietary server, and users who know less about computer softwares, are not= aware of the anti-feature.

----=_RainLoop_175_216542502.1612790920-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 10 09:38:57 2021 Received: (at 46385) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Feb 2021 14:38:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55827 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l9qds-0003l6-8C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2021 09:38:57 -0500 Received: from albert.telenet-ops.be ([195.130.137.90]:47112) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l9qdn-0003kv-T1 for 46385@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2021 09:38:55 -0500 Received: from ptr-bvsjgyjmffd7q9timvx.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be ([IPv6:2a02:1811:8c09:9d00:aaf1:9810:a0b8:a55d]) by albert.telenet-ops.be with bizsmtp id TSep2400t0mfAB406SepgU; Wed, 10 Feb 2021 15:38:50 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#46385: User awareness of Anti-Features From: Maxime Devos To: soheil@disroot.org, 46385@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 15:38:36 +0100 In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha256"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-PCbqVDxxWoYrOsG/RiQO" User-Agent: Evolution 3.34.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telenet.be; s=r21; t=1612967930; bh=l3dWr+qAwo5jVdyu3+8jkhHl6rKy2RSrj8J/n2FMs48=; h=Subject:From:To:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=JqVyPPKldXuwck5xkI/3Api39t5yzyA/+0fTn4+fxcGutK2xcu4Mj9RL9IyCeIn0k CUyCPsGoI8K95LWgV502vfIoaq8Bu125NlojcVDzH5ASa2SZF+YnkS1MEKq61kse/w Vh3CQlS++Bgz+60MBdYih5nNv7mThECcn3Mu38+lWImE3G9d7p5drfaxmuZE7rc9yK zKU3yp5t2RQfSq1KpDFMBInACyiN0IO5Q5BjwET9JyYR3MewJZJgc5BoDr3q0vXU2/ gInFO8tvs8qE7Y8/L/+YVkGHDe5QnhfvmOF31JL57kM9zntAdiDcCKmbAEr/WH1WnE 2LvCGWzkxE/Pw== X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 46385 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) --=-PCbqVDxxWoYrOsG/RiQO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, On Mon, 2021-02-08 at 13:28 +0000, soheil--- via Bug reports for GNU Guix w= rote: > Users should be aware of anti-feature of packages. > It is best to have anti-feature tag in anti-feature packages so that user= know > which program has anti-features; Like F-Droid. Also, user should be awar= e of > anti-feature during installation. And wherever this awareness is needed..= . >=20 > An example is Telegram, Telegram is a program that user connects to a > proprietary server, and users who know less about computer softwares, > are not aware of the anti-feature. I'll have to think some more on whether this is something Guix needs, but I do have a partial concrete implementation proposal: Packages can have a =E2=80=98properties=E2=80=99 field, e.g. from gnu/packa= ges/bioconductors.scm: (define-public r-reactome-db (package (name "r-reactome-db") (version "1.70.0") [...] (properties `((upstream-name . "reactome.db"))))) Maybe add a =E2=80=98anti-features=E2=80=99 entry field for some packages? E.g., (define-public some-twitter-app (package (name "tweet") [...] (properties `((anti-features x y z))))) x, y and z can be symbols, e.g. based upon from https://f-droid.org/en/docs= /Anti-Features/ * ads (I don't think any application in Guix has these?) * tracking (should be patched out if possible) * non-free-network-services * non-free-dependencies (probably not allowed in upstream Guix, but maybe i= n a channel) The code behind =E2=80=98guix show=E2=80=99 and =E2=80=98guix search=E2=80= =99 would need to be adjusted to display anti-features, and the =E2=80=98guix install=E2=80= =99 code should warn if someone installs a package with anti-features. Greetings, Maxime --=-PCbqVDxxWoYrOsG/RiQO Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iI0EABYIADUWIQTB8z7iDFKP233XAR9J4+4iGRcl7gUCYCPv7BccbWF4aW1lZGV2 b3NAdGVsZW5ldC5iZQAKCRBJ4+4iGRcl7pftAQD4KQHWo9z/TsfjwrcKQ+AottXW ZzuGVVXDs4RUcDZpmgEAhn/66AgxZa8Cymj3ea6sZCpmK9FUASTtIgiR6l6ZxAI= =eaOT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-PCbqVDxxWoYrOsG/RiQO-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 10 11:53:25 2021 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Feb 2021 16:53:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57121 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l9sjz-00014H-UK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2021 11:53:24 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:41500) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l9sju-00013g-B4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2021 11:53:21 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44670) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l9sjt-00038n-Cn for bug-guix@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2021 11:53:18 -0500 Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.25]:38639) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l9sjr-000322-27 for bug-guix@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2021 11:53:17 -0500 Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 725F25C01BA; Wed, 10 Feb 2021 11:53:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 10 Feb 2021 11:53:12 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=famulari.name; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:in-reply-to; s=mesmtp; bh=jv10z+PiM3BQJG+H+Rbt3hyY aVPKU5oRbn0Lthnv9mU=; b=rPQHfXTeC6vo0D0C2g+inF4mh8ti9tkIYIjkbLnf JTuw+d7en0hwTpLtnhT141dCA7bZxnxwGO+X4FBqjsszeibi6PcPJxUSGmqRk+Un uAuMXWncpCfuEWKzGLWYh5fc9ohVCWWKpuKXfMN3Ki36lTw2ofrKrSEdUneytS9P W8o= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=jv10z+ PiM3BQJG+H+Rbt3hyYaVPKU5oRbn0Lthnv9mU=; b=B6z2jH7LuG22QjO6Nx20FI MfqSKiMW40pcEId5hfG3dviWNPl03UwdTeBbyWZnRRiLgprcB+TVAvYrzODa8uDL 2/u+MSA49pSZB01Ri0rQPJJ31l9GEYNcoTOGfY9rXOKYtJz+sA63xPBTaprnFv03 FHXYNGaF6Yny6BKyqJTdIP33In95e4n3zQszUGSBlhRAv8GIyiDmOFzSFiPZvTbw sd4M0LjEzC1YY7w73f8qJfwVQgaa+DNw/KuSptxxKzeUmiyBxruboZwqVlp1zE+K 3Ay+giiYw7vOYucrc9YyphW+5Yej8dWanoYq9EJSffW+57G+seq9/YRo8T8O7j8Q == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledrheejgdelvdcutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenuc fjughrpeffhffvuffkfhggtggujgesthdtredttddtvdenucfhrhhomhepnfgvohcuhfgr mhhulhgrrhhiuceolhgvohesfhgrmhhulhgrrhhirdhnrghmvgeqnecuggftrfgrthhtvg hrnhepueekkedtffdvtddugeejgedtvefhueefiedvjeeitdeigedtveejvdejheffvefg necukfhppedutddtrdduuddrudeiledruddukeenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtne curfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehlvghosehfrghmuhhlrghrihdrnhgrmhgv X-ME-Proxy: Received: from localhost (pool-100-11-169-118.phlapa.fios.verizon.net [100.11.169.118]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id E1BFC24005A; Wed, 10 Feb 2021 11:53:11 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 11:53:09 -0500 From: Leo Famulari To: soheil--- via Bug reports for GNU Guix Subject: Re: bug#46385: User awareness of Anti-Features Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.111.4.25; envelope-from=leo@famulari.name; helo=out1-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: 46385@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) On Mon, Feb 08, 2021 at 01:28:40PM +0000, soheil--- via Bug reports for GNU Guix wrote: > Users should be aware of anti-feature of packages. > It is best to have anti-feature tag in anti-feature packages so that user know which program has anti-features; Like F-Droid. Also, user should be aware of anti-feature during installation. And wherever this awareness is needed... I use F-Droid, but I dislike their "anti-feature" messaging. It's not clear to me that it's an example we should follow. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 19 10:22:45 2021 Received: (at 46385) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Feb 2021 15:22:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50146 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lD7cD-0004TF-1g for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2021 10:22:45 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:52814) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lD7cB-0004Sx-L7 for 46385@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2021 10:22:44 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:50559) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lD7c4-0001LB-VI; Fri, 19 Feb 2021 10:22:36 -0500 Received: from [2001:660:6102:320:e120:2c8f:8909:cdfe] (port=49858 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lD7c4-0001T0-HC; Fri, 19 Feb 2021 10:22:36 -0500 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Maxime Devos Subject: Re: bug#46385: User awareness of Anti-Features References: X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 1 =?utf-8?Q?Vent=C3=B4se?= an 229 de la =?utf-8?Q?R?= =?utf-8?Q?=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2021 16:22:34 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Maxime Devos's message of "Wed, 10 Feb 2021 15:38:36 +0100") Message-ID: <87v9aokrph.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 46385 Cc: soheil@disroot.org, 46385@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Hi, Maxime Devos skribis: > I'll have to think some more on whether this is something Guix needs, but= I > do have a partial concrete implementation proposal: > > Packages can have a =E2=80=98properties=E2=80=99 field, e.g. from gnu/pac= kages/bioconductors.scm: > > (define-public r-reactome-db > (package > (name "r-reactome-db") > (version "1.70.0") > [...] > (properties `((upstream-name . "reactome.db"))))) > > Maybe add a =E2=80=98anti-features=E2=80=99 entry field for some packages? > E.g., > > (define-public some-twitter-app > (package > (name "tweet") > [...] > (properties `((anti-features x y z))))) > > x, y and z can be symbols, e.g. based upon from https://f-droid.org/en/do= cs/Anti-Features/ > > * ads (I don't think any application in Guix has these?) > * tracking (should be patched out if possible) > * non-free-network-services > * non-free-dependencies (probably not allowed in upstream Guix, but maybe= in a channel) > > The code behind =E2=80=98guix show=E2=80=99 and =E2=80=98guix search=E2= =80=99 would need to > be adjusted to display anti-features, and the =E2=80=98guix install=E2=80= =99 code > should warn if someone installs a package with anti-features. I=E2=80=99m sympathetic with the idea of raising awareness of those anti-features. However, I don=E2=80=99t see a clear way we could =E2=80=9C= define=E2=80=9D each possible anti-feature; some are definitely ill-defined (for instance, a service is neither =E2=80=9Cfree=E2=80=9D nor =E2=80=9Cnon-free=E2=80=9D in= the same sense as software can be free or non-free.) It=E2=80=99s also not entirely clear to me how t= he UI could make good use of it. That said, there are anti-features that we have always patched out in the past, such as tracking/=E2=80=9Cphoning home=E2=80=9D and auto-upgrades= . Perhaps we could formalize that in our packaging guidelines? Ludo=E2=80=99. 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[66.158.155.254]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h2-20020a05620a244200b006a691904891sm17750099qkn.16.2022.06.09.14.12.43 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 09 Jun 2022 14:12:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Maxim Cournoyer To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Subject: Re: bug#46385: User awareness of Anti-Features References: <87v9aokrph.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2022 17:12:42 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87v9aokrph.fsf@gnu.org> ("Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s=22'?= =?utf-8?Q?s?= message of "Fri, 19 Feb 2021 16:22:34 +0100") Message-ID: <87wndph779.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 46385 Cc: soheil@disroot.org, Maxime Devos , 46385@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: [...] >> * ads (I don't think any application in Guix has these?) >> * tracking (should be patched out if possible) >> * non-free-network-services >> * non-free-dependencies (probably not allowed in upstream Guix, but mayb= e in a channel) >> >> The code behind =E2=80=98guix show=E2=80=99 and =E2=80=98guix search=E2= =80=99 would need to >> be adjusted to display anti-features, and the =E2=80=98guix install=E2= =80=99 code >> should warn if someone installs a package with anti-features. > > I=E2=80=99m sympathetic with the idea of raising awareness of those > anti-features. However, I don=E2=80=99t see a clear way we could =E2=80= =9Cdefine=E2=80=9D each > possible anti-feature; some are definitely ill-defined (for instance, a > service is neither =E2=80=9Cfree=E2=80=9D nor =E2=80=9Cnon-free=E2=80=9D = in the same sense as software > can be free or non-free.) It=E2=80=99s also not entirely clear to me how= the UI > could make good use of it. I agree. It's not well defined, and to me following the FSDG seems an already good warranty that you're getting only free software from a project dedicated to fixing any freedom issues that may be discovered. > That said, there are anti-features that we have always patched out in > the past, such as tracking/=E2=80=9Cphoning home=E2=80=9D and auto-upgrad= es. Perhaps we > could formalize that in our packaging guidelines? It'd be good to have this documented, indeed. Thanks, Maxim