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envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=aserp2120.oracle.com X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) A. This is unclear, to me: If DEFAULTS is a non-nil symbol, then if `read-regexp-defaults-function' is non-nil, we use that in place of DEFAULTS in the following: If DEFAULTS is the symbol `regexp-history-last', we use the first element of HISTORY (if specified) or `regexp-history'. If DEFAULTS is a function, we call it with no arguments and use what it returns, which should be either nil, a string, or a list of stri= ngs. 1. If DEFAULTS is not a non-nil symbol, or if `read-regexp-defaults-function' is nil, then how to interpret that "the following" text? What's it for, in that case? And if it's not used in that case, then what if only one of those conditions holds? 2. Assume that `read-regexp-defaults-function' is non-nil - say `foobar', and DEFAULTS is also a non-nil symbol, say `toto'. Then DEFAULTS isn't `regexp-history-list', so the first sentence ("If DEFAULTS is the symbol `regexp-history-list') doesn't apply. Now what if `toto' isn't a function? What's the behavior? 3. Same thing, exactly, if both `read-regexp-defaults-function' and DEFAULTS are the same symbol, `foobar'. 4. Assume that DEFAULTS is `regexp-history-last', and `read-regexp-defaults-function' is a function. Then the first sentence applies, so we use the first element of HISTORY or `regexp-history' as default. OK. This particular case is understandable, if hidden in the jungle. 5. Assume that DEFAULTS is a function and `read-regexp-defaults-function' is non-nil. Then the first sentence doesn't apply, but the second one does: "we call it with no arguments..." What's "it"? DEFAULTS or `read-regexp-defaults-function'? (Nowhere does it say that the non-nil value of the latter should be a function, but let's assume that's the case, to be generous.) This doc is impenetrable, to me at least. There are 4 IFs, 2 of which seem to be conditioned on the conjunction of the other two: IF (a AND b) THEN: IF... IF... The relations between the two nested IFs aren't clear. Presumably there's an ELSE between them, but the overall meaning of this DEFAULTS description is unclear. B. And then we get to: We append the standard values from `read-regexp-suggestions' to DEFAULTS before using it. If the first element of DEFAULTS is non-nil (and if PROMPT does not end in ":", followed by optional whitespace), we add it to the prompt. How do you append that to a DEFAULTS value that's a string? Or a non-nil symbol? Or a function? How can we talk about the elements of a string, symbol, or function? In GNU Emacs 26.3 (build 1, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2019-08-29 Repository revision: 96dd0196c28bc36779584e47fffcca433c9309cd Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 10.0.18362 Configured using: `configure --without-dbus --host=3Dx86_64-w64-mingw32 --without-compress-install 'CFLAGS=3D-O2 -static -g3'' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 26 21:38:15 2021 Received: (at 46088) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jan 2021 02:38:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43149 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l4aik-0004iw-IC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 26 Jan 2021 21:38:15 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:34710) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l4aiX-0004iE-KA for 46088@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 26 Jan 2021 21:38:13 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=wd7K7MvhqvKP5FeDUb8T127mx6KDI/aBE6/S11YouZA=; b=oqr2YyrDwpHNoBs9TJskO5CpOy vCS9exSV6ceso4VzS2zvmJBn+Nu9xUXKuUTLV03xhTRjaHazpj95RkhKkbQkO7UpnVRlyuS6nwTAa GjuFEg3lyjNfA/C869cjc2aCJfu4PTrOiOt4JTbb6jdvHbwA1wJhuwwbHjKwpoMvH/IA=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1l4aiO-00085d-Ke; Wed, 27 Jan 2021 03:37:55 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#46088: 26.3; doc string of `read-regexp' References: X-Now-Playing: Girls At Our Best!'s _To The Outside Of Everything: A Story of UK Post Punk 1977-1981 (3)_: "Warm Girls" Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2021 03:37:51 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Sun, 24 Jan 2021 23:26:18 +0000") Message-ID: <87zh0vds00.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Drew Adams writes: > A. This is unclear, to me: > > If DEFAULTS is a non-nil symbol, then if `read-regexp-defaults-function' > is non-nil, we use that in place of DEFAULTS in the following: > If DEFAULTS is the symbol ` [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 46088 Cc: 46088@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Drew Adams writes: > A. This is unclear, to me: > > If DEFAULTS is a non-nil symbol, then if `read-regexp-defaults-function' > is non-nil, we use that in place of DEFAULTS in the following: > If DEFAULTS is the symbol `regexp-history-last', we use the first > element of HISTORY (if specified) or `regexp-history'. > If DEFAULTS is a function, we call it with no arguments and use > what it returns, which should be either nil, a string, or a list of strings. That is pretty hard to parse, but the semantics are pretty convoluted, too. It's saying that if DEFAULTS is a symbol, then the actual value used comes from `read-regexp-defaults-function' in the two cases described. That is, if `read-regexp-defaults-function' is non-nil. I've now tried to reformulate this in Emacs 28, but it's a case of the code being easier to read than trying to actually describe the semantics. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 26 21:39:08 2021 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jan 2021 02:39:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43153 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l4ajc-0004kh-4v for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 26 Jan 2021 21:39:08 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:34726) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l4ajZ-0004k1-Pj for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 26 Jan 2021 21:39:06 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=UV3duk6sXLVNYtN3gS6Sk9iQ3RrJahNZGYqfiBwc1Zk=; b=sR+hxduhwPVFEbFOZ/wOv5SpA1 XiY7a2IKGXkGUxePauIooQM3ek8w+c+bHvu5QwPXy/XLDEUR5pZDLC5znSj2GLCuzAYJsPy6BX85a caaswp5lu4vpiFhWjye81KjEMwohRe+eWKDCBQ1gl+NQWBqBX8jfVBkcc+1xSh3JuhXg=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1l4ajS-000861-8u for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Jan 2021 03:39:00 +0100 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2021 03:38:57 +0100 Message-Id: <87y2gfdry6.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #46088 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 46088 fixed close 46088 28.1 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 46088 fixed close 46088 28.1 quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 26 21:48:23 2021 Received: (at 46088) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jan 2021 02:48:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43171 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l4asZ-00076h-Mp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; 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Wed, 27 Jan 2021 02:48:07 +0000 Received: from SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::dc4d:9cd0:2010:daa2]) by SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::dc4d:9cd0:2010:daa2%7]) with mapi id 15.20.3784.019; Wed, 27 Jan 2021 02:48:07 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: RE: [External] : Re: bug#46088: 26.3; doc string of `read-regexp' Thread-Topic: [External] : Re: bug#46088: 26.3; doc string of `read-regexp' Thread-Index: Adbyp1bjFSwptDaYSSq/92xnTLGTCQBrhfC4AABIJrA= Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2021 02:48:07 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87zh0vds00.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: <87zh0vds00.fsf@gnus.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: gnus.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;gnus.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=oracle.com; x-originating-ip: [73.170.83.28] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 1bda538c-e0a8-46d2-45e0-08d8c26dfa39 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SN6PR10MB2896: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 1bda538c-e0a8-46d2-45e0-08d8c26dfa39 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 27 Jan 2021 02:48:07.7190 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: TqEYqtjgxoSRlQQZHGeJSBsXmmoZhRrHA9EturrP6Uwa4Kqaruk2MfmZhvyvYK1Pg2X7B82pRBoYFYyouLNdTA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SN6PR10MB2896 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6200 definitions=9876 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=823 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2101270014 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6200 definitions=9876 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 impostorscore=0 malwarescore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 bulkscore=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxscore=0 clxscore=1011 mlxlogscore=999 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2101270014 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 46088 Cc: "46088@debbugs.gnu.org" <46088@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > I've now tried to reformulate this in Emacs 28, but it's a case of the > code being easier to read than trying to actually describe the > semantics. Thanks for trying. FWIW, the doc in the Elisp manual is nearly as bad. Also pretty comprehensible. Beyond my pay grade, at least. If the behavior is too complicated to explain, what's the point? That sugg= ests a behavior/design bug, not just a doc bug. Clearly I can't judge that= , because I don't understand what the behavior is. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 28 01:32:06 2021 Received: (at 46088) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jan 2021 06:32:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46861 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l50qc-0002ID-GT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Jan 2021 01:32:06 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:46604) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l50qa-0002Cg-QP for 46088@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Jan 2021 01:32:05 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:36944) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l50qV-0001c5-K1; Thu, 28 Jan 2021 01:31:59 -0500 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1l50qU-0003fE-63; Thu, 28 Jan 2021 01:31:58 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Wed, 27 Jan 2021 02:48:07 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#46088: [External] : Re: bug#46088: 26.3; doc string of `read-regexp' References: <87zh0vds00.fsf@gnus.org> Message-Id: Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2021 01:31:58 -0500 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 46088 Cc: 46088@debbugs.gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > If the behavior is too complicated to explain, what's the point? > That suggests a behavior/design bug, not just a doc bug. Clearly > I can't judge that, because I don't understand what the behavior > is. It wouldn't be bad to look for a possible cleaner design and document it, but a redesign sometimes causes problems of its own. Another option is to say that some aspects of its behavior are unspecified. That will be a lot less work, and can't break anything. -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Sat Jun 21 03:22:33 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 12:24:13 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator