GNU bug report logs -
#45894
Bug report for preview-latex
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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
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Dear Sir or Madam,
I reported a bug on github, and the maintainers advised me to inform the
authors of preview-latex:
<https://github.com/latex3/hyperref/issues/166> pdfLaTeX fails on pstool
when hyperref is included · Issue #166 · latex3/hyperref (github.com). The
original bug report, a minimum example and all needed files are posted
there.
I would be absolutely willing to support the clarification of the issue.
Please inform me how to formally submit the bug report.
Thanks and best wishes,
Tobias Bruckmann
Dr.-Ing. Tobias Bruckmann
Universität Duisburg-Essen, Campus Duisburg
Fakultät für Ingenieurwissenschaften
Abteilung Maschinenbau und Verfahrenstechnik
Lehrstuhl für Mechatronik
Lotharstraße 1, MD 334
47057 Duisburg
Mobil: +49 (0) 170 / 639 2859
Tel.: +49 (0) 203 / 379 - 1908
Fax: +49 (0) 203 / 379 4494
E-Mail: <mailto:tobias.bruckmann <at> uni-due.de>
mailto:tobias.bruckmann <at> uni-due.de
Internet: <http://www.uni-due.de/mechatronik>
http://www.uni-due.de/mechatronik
[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]
[image001.png (image/png, inline)]
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bug-auctex <at> gnu.org:
bug#45894; Package
auctex.
(Sun, 17 Jan 2021 05:59:02 GMT)
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Message #8 received at 45894 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Hi David,
Could you please take care of bug#44578[1], reported by Ulrike Fischer?
It seems that that bug is responsible for bug#45894, skimming over the
correspondence between Tobias and Ulrike[2].
In addition, the following simple document fails at preview-latex when
TeX-PDF-mode is nil and preview-image-type is `png', although I'm not
sure whether this is related or not. (The two math fragments "\(a\)" and
"\(b\)" both don't render as images but instead "Do not enter" signs
appear beside them.)
In summary, it seems that latex+dvips+gs has low compatibility with
preview.sty by recent changes in LaTeX core.
Best regards,
Ikumi Keita
----------------------------------------------------------------------
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{tikz}
\begin{document}
\begin{itemize}
\item \(a\)
\item \(b\)
\end{itemize}
% pdflatex+pdf2dsc+gs OK
% latex+dvipng OK
% latex+dvips+gs NG
\end{document}
%%% Local Variables:
%%% mode: latex
%%% TeX-master: t
%%% End:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
[1] https://debbugs.gnu.org/44578
[2] https://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/570404/pdflatex-fails-on-pstool-when-hyperref-is-included
>>>>> "Bruckmann, Tobias" <tobias.bruckmann <at> uni-due.de> writes:
> Dear Sir or Madam,
> I reported a bug on github, and the maintainers advised me to inform the
> authors of preview-latex:
> <https://github.com/latex3/hyperref/issues/166> pdfLaTeX fails on pstool
> when hyperref is included · Issue #166 · latex3/hyperref (github.com). The
> original bug report, a minimum example and all needed files are posted
> there.
> I would be absolutely willing to support the clarification of the issue.
> Please inform me how to formally submit the bug report.
> Thanks and best wishes,
> Tobias Bruckmann
Information forwarded
to
bug-auctex <at> gnu.org:
bug#45894; Package
auctex.
(Sun, 17 Jan 2021 12:48:02 GMT)
Full text and
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Message #11 received at 45894 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
Thanks!
Please let me know in case I can support the clarification of the bug.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Ikumi Keita <ikumi <at> ikumi.que.jp>
Gesendet: Sonntag, 17. Januar 2021 06:58
An: dak <at> gnu.org
Cc: Bruckmann, Tobias <tobias.bruckmann <at> uni-due.de>; 45894 <at> debbugs.gnu.org;
44578 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Betreff: Re: bug#45894: Bug report for preview-latex
Hi David,
Could you please take care of bug#44578[1], reported by Ulrike Fischer?
It seems that that bug is responsible for bug#45894, skimming over the
correspondence between Tobias and Ulrike[2].
In addition, the following simple document fails at preview-latex when
TeX-PDF-mode is nil and preview-image-type is `png', although I'm not sure
whether this is related or not. (The two math fragments "\(a\)" and "\(b\)"
both don't render as images but instead "Do not enter" signs appear beside
them.)
In summary, it seems that latex+dvips+gs has low compatibility with
preview.sty by recent changes in LaTeX core.
Best regards,
Ikumi Keita
----------------------------------------------------------------------
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{tikz}
\begin{document}
\begin{itemize}
\item \(a\)
\item \(b\)
\end{itemize}
% pdflatex+pdf2dsc+gs OK
% latex+dvipng OK
% latex+dvips+gs NG
\end{document}
%%% Local Variables:
%%% mode: latex
%%% TeX-master: t
%%% End:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
[1] https://debbugs.gnu.org/44578
[2]
https://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/570404/pdflatex-fails-on-pstool-when
-hyperref-is-included
>>>>> "Bruckmann, Tobias" <tobias.bruckmann <at> uni-due.de> writes:
> Dear Sir or Madam,
> I reported a bug on github, and the maintainers advised me to inform
> the authors of preview-latex:
> <https://github.com/latex3/hyperref/issues/166> pdfLaTeX fails on
> pstool when hyperref is included · Issue #166 · latex3/hyperref
> (github.com). The original bug report, a minimum example and all
> needed files are posted there.
> I would be absolutely willing to support the clarification of the issue.
> Please inform me how to formally submit the bug report.
> Thanks and best wishes,
> Tobias Bruckmann
[smime.p7s (application/pkcs7-signature, attachment)]
Information forwarded
to
bug-auctex <at> gnu.org:
bug#45894; Package
auctex.
(Sun, 17 Jan 2021 12:59:02 GMT)
Full text and
rfc822 format available.
Message #14 received at 45894 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Frankly, I have a problem seeing a sensible fix for "Hyperref chose to
mess with LaTeX internals in its own exclusive way incompatible with
anybody else trying to change behavior, even when done in the exactly
same manner, but will likely change doing this to a different way soon".
"Bruckmann, Tobias" <tobias.bruckmann <at> uni-due.de> writes:
> Thanks!
> Please let me know in case I can support the clarification of the bug.
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Ikumi Keita <ikumi <at> ikumi.que.jp>
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 17. Januar 2021 06:58
> An: dak <at> gnu.org
> Cc: Bruckmann, Tobias <tobias.bruckmann <at> uni-due.de>; 45894 <at> debbugs.gnu.org;
> 44578 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Betreff: Re: bug#45894: Bug report for preview-latex
>
> Hi David,
>
> Could you please take care of bug#44578[1], reported by Ulrike Fischer?
> It seems that that bug is responsible for bug#45894, skimming over the
> correspondence between Tobias and Ulrike[2].
>
> In addition, the following simple document fails at preview-latex when
> TeX-PDF-mode is nil and preview-image-type is `png', although I'm not sure
> whether this is related or not. (The two math fragments "\(a\)" and "\(b\)"
> both don't render as images but instead "Do not enter" signs appear beside
> them.)
>
> In summary, it seems that latex+dvips+gs has low compatibility with
> preview.sty by recent changes in LaTeX core.
>
> Best regards,
> Ikumi Keita
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> \documentclass{article}
> \usepackage{tikz}
>
> \begin{document}
>
> \begin{itemize}
> \item \(a\)
> \item \(b\)
> \end{itemize}
>
> % pdflatex+pdf2dsc+gs OK
> % latex+dvipng OK
> % latex+dvips+gs NG
>
> \end{document}
>
> %%% Local Variables:
> %%% mode: latex
> %%% TeX-master: t
> %%% End:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> [1] https://debbugs.gnu.org/44578
> [2]
> https://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/570404/pdflatex-fails-on-pstool-when
> -hyperref-is-included
>
>>>>>> "Bruckmann, Tobias" <tobias.bruckmann <at> uni-due.de> writes:
>> Dear Sir or Madam,
>> I reported a bug on github, and the maintainers advised me to inform
>> the authors of preview-latex:
>
>> <https://github.com/latex3/hyperref/issues/166> pdfLaTeX fails on
>> pstool when hyperref is included · Issue #166 · latex3/hyperref
>> (github.com). The original bug report, a minimum example and all
>> needed files are posted there.
>
>> I would be absolutely willing to support the clarification of the issue.
>> Please inform me how to formally submit the bug report.
>
>> Thanks and best wishes,
>
>> Tobias Bruckmann
>
--
David Kastrup
Information forwarded
to
bug-auctex <at> gnu.org:
bug#45894; Package
auctex.
(Sat, 23 Jan 2021 13:07:02 GMT)
Full text and
rfc822 format available.
Message #17 received at 45894 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
Dear all,
is there anything I can do from user side? I am no programmer, but let me
know in case I can help.
Will there be some bug tracking to follow any debugging process?
Thanks and best wishes,
Tobias
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: David Kastrup <dak <at> gnu.org>
Gesendet: Sonntag, 17. Januar 2021 13:59
An: Bruckmann, Tobias <tobias.bruckmann <at> uni-due.de>
Cc: Ikumi Keita <ikumi <at> ikumi.que.jp>; 45894 <at> debbugs.gnu.org;
44578 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Betreff: Re: AW: bug#45894: Bug report for preview-latex
Frankly, I have a problem seeing a sensible fix for "Hyperref chose to mess
with LaTeX internals in its own exclusive way incompatible with anybody else
trying to change behavior, even when done in the exactly same manner, but
will likely change doing this to a different way soon".
"Bruckmann, Tobias" <tobias.bruckmann <at> uni-due.de> writes:
> Thanks!
> Please let me know in case I can support the clarification of the bug.
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Ikumi Keita <ikumi <at> ikumi.que.jp>
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 17. Januar 2021 06:58
> An: dak <at> gnu.org
> Cc: Bruckmann, Tobias <tobias.bruckmann <at> uni-due.de>;
> 45894 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; 44578 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Betreff: Re: bug#45894: Bug report for preview-latex
>
> Hi David,
>
> Could you please take care of bug#44578[1], reported by Ulrike Fischer?
> It seems that that bug is responsible for bug#45894, skimming over the
> correspondence between Tobias and Ulrike[2].
>
> In addition, the following simple document fails at preview-latex when
> TeX-PDF-mode is nil and preview-image-type is `png', although I'm not
> sure whether this is related or not. (The two math fragments "\(a\)" and
"\(b\)"
> both don't render as images but instead "Do not enter" signs appear
> beside
> them.)
>
> In summary, it seems that latex+dvips+gs has low compatibility with
> preview.sty by recent changes in LaTeX core.
>
> Best regards,
> Ikumi Keita
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> \documentclass{article}
> \usepackage{tikz}
>
> \begin{document}
>
> \begin{itemize}
> \item \(a\)
> \item \(b\)
> \end{itemize}
>
> % pdflatex+pdf2dsc+gs OK
> % latex+dvipng OK
> % latex+dvips+gs NG
>
> \end{document}
>
> %%% Local Variables:
> %%% mode: latex
> %%% TeX-master: t
> %%% End:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> [1] https://debbugs.gnu.org/44578
> [2]
> https://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/570404/pdflatex-fails-on-pstoo
> l-when
> -hyperref-is-included
>
>>>>>> "Bruckmann, Tobias" <tobias.bruckmann <at> uni-due.de> writes:
>> Dear Sir or Madam,
>> I reported a bug on github, and the maintainers advised me to inform
>> the authors of preview-latex:
>
>> <https://github.com/latex3/hyperref/issues/166> pdfLaTeX fails on
>> pstool when hyperref is included · Issue #166 · latex3/hyperref
>> (github.com). The original bug report, a minimum example and all
>> needed files are posted there.
>
>> I would be absolutely willing to support the clarification of the issue.
>> Please inform me how to formally submit the bug report.
>
>> Thanks and best wishes,
>
>> Tobias Bruckmann
>
--
David Kastrup
[smime.p7s (application/pkcs7-signature, attachment)]
Information forwarded
to
bug-auctex <at> gnu.org:
bug#45894; Package
auctex.
(Sun, 24 Jan 2021 06:00:03 GMT)
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Message #20 received at 45894 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Hi Tobias,
>>>>> "Bruckmann, Tobias" <tobias.bruckmann <at> uni-due.de> writes:
> is there anything I can do from user side? I am no programmer, but let me
> know in case I can help.
All I can think of is to keep an old TeX distribution separately from
the latest one.
You can obtain old distributions from https://www.tug.org/historic/ .
Regards,
Ikumi Keita
Information forwarded
to
bug-auctex <at> gnu.org:
bug#45894; Package
auctex.
(Sun, 14 Feb 2021 16:18:02 GMT)
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Message #23 received at 45894 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
Dear all,
I am not sure whether the status of my bug report:
Is there any chance this will be resolved, or is it only of minor relevance?
I would be grateful for any quick comment...
Thanks and best wishes,
Tobias
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Bruckmann, Tobias
Gesendet: Sonntag, 17. Januar 2021 13:47
An: 'Ikumi Keita' <ikumi <at> ikumi.que.jp>; dak <at> gnu.org
Cc: 45894 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; 44578 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Betreff: AW: bug#45894: Bug report for preview-latex
Thanks!
Please let me know in case I can support the clarification of the bug.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Ikumi Keita <ikumi <at> ikumi.que.jp>
Gesendet: Sonntag, 17. Januar 2021 06:58
An: dak <at> gnu.org
Cc: Bruckmann, Tobias <tobias.bruckmann <at> uni-due.de>; 45894 <at> debbugs.gnu.org;
44578 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Betreff: Re: bug#45894: Bug report for preview-latex
Hi David,
Could you please take care of bug#44578[1], reported by Ulrike Fischer?
It seems that that bug is responsible for bug#45894, skimming over the
correspondence between Tobias and Ulrike[2].
In addition, the following simple document fails at preview-latex when
TeX-PDF-mode is nil and preview-image-type is `png', although I'm not sure
whether this is related or not. (The two math fragments "\(a\)" and "\(b\)"
both don't render as images but instead "Do not enter" signs appear beside
them.)
In summary, it seems that latex+dvips+gs has low compatibility with
preview.sty by recent changes in LaTeX core.
Best regards,
Ikumi Keita
----------------------------------------------------------------------
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{tikz}
\begin{document}
\begin{itemize}
\item \(a\)
\item \(b\)
\end{itemize}
% pdflatex+pdf2dsc+gs OK
% latex+dvipng OK
% latex+dvips+gs NG
\end{document}
%%% Local Variables:
%%% mode: latex
%%% TeX-master: t
%%% End:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
[1] https://debbugs.gnu.org/44578
[2]
https://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/570404/pdflatex-fails-on-pstool-when
-hyperref-is-included
>>>>> "Bruckmann, Tobias" <tobias.bruckmann <at> uni-due.de> writes:
> Dear Sir or Madam,
> I reported a bug on github, and the maintainers advised me to inform
> the authors of preview-latex:
> <https://github.com/latex3/hyperref/issues/166> pdfLaTeX fails on
> pstool when hyperref is included · Issue #166 · latex3/hyperref
> (github.com). The original bug report, a minimum example and all
> needed files are posted there.
> I would be absolutely willing to support the clarification of the issue.
> Please inform me how to formally submit the bug report.
> Thanks and best wishes,
> Tobias Bruckmann
[smime.p7s (application/pkcs7-signature, attachment)]
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bug-auctex <at> gnu.org:
bug#45894; Package
auctex.
(Sun, 14 Feb 2021 19:32:02 GMT)
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Message #26 received at 45894 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Hi Tobias,
>>>>> "Bruckmann, Tobias" <tobias.bruckmann <at> uni-due.de> writes:
> I am not sure whether the status of my bug report:
> Is there any chance this will be resolved, or is it only of minor relevance?
I'm sorry to say this, but I can't help. It requires mature knowledge
about TeX programming and Postscript language to deal with this issue. I
have neither one.
As I told before, I'd just recomend to keep an old TeX distribution
separately to typeset your documents. That's only workaround I can think
of.
Best regards,
Ikumi Keita
Information forwarded
to
bug-auctex <at> gnu.org:
bug#45894; Package
auctex.
(Mon, 15 Feb 2021 14:48:02 GMT)
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Message #29 received at 45894 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
Hi Ikumi, David
this is a bad situation. I am quite surprised I am the first (and only?) one
to stumble across this:
- Most scientific works use vector EPS graphics. psfrag is extremely popular
in this field.
- Most works are published in PDF
- You can't get around hyperref
The combination of pstool and pdfLaTeX seems to be the most promising
approach to me to join these points in one toolchain. Living with an old
version might work for some months, but this can't be the future.
So there's no pathway and this toolchain is dead forever?
Thanks for your appreciated comment,
Tobias
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Ikumi Keita <ikumi <at> ikumi.que.jp>
Gesendet: Sonntag, 14. Februar 2021 20:32
An: Bruckmann, Tobias <tobias.bruckmann <at> uni-due.de>
Cc: dak <at> gnu.org; 45894 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; 44578 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Betreff: Re: AW: bug#45894: Bug report for preview-latex
Hi Tobias,
>>>>> "Bruckmann, Tobias" <tobias.bruckmann <at> uni-due.de> writes:
> I am not sure whether the status of my bug report:
> Is there any chance this will be resolved, or is it only of minor
relevance?
I'm sorry to say this, but I can't help. It requires mature knowledge about
TeX programming and Postscript language to deal with this issue. I have
neither one.
As I told before, I'd just recomend to keep an old TeX distribution
separately to typeset your documents. That's only workaround I can think of.
Best regards,
Ikumi Keita
[smime.p7s (application/pkcs7-signature, attachment)]
Information forwarded
to
bug-auctex <at> gnu.org:
bug#45894; Package
auctex.
(Wed, 24 Feb 2021 23:59:02 GMT)
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Message #32 received at 45894 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
"Bruckmann, Tobias" <tobias.bruckmann <at> uni-due.de> writes:
> Hi Ikumi, David
>
> this is a bad situation. I am quite surprised I am the first (and only?) one
> to stumble across this:
> - Most scientific works use vector EPS graphics. psfrag is extremely popular
> in this field.
> - Most works are published in PDF
> - You can't get around hyperref
>
> The combination of pstool and pdfLaTeX seems to be the most promising
> approach to me to join these points in one toolchain. Living with an old
> version might work for some months, but this can't be the future.
>
> So there's no pathway and this toolchain is dead forever?
>
> Thanks for your appreciated comment,
So what are you willing to invest to avert the catastrophe? In terms of
procuring code or paying for the time of those who do?
--
David Kastrup
Information forwarded
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(Thu, 25 Feb 2021 06:45:02 GMT)
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Message #35 received at 45894 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
Dear David,
this is a good question. I didn't want to push but just point out the relevance of the issue, believing that you feel a personal appreciation (and/or certain responsibility) for a code you officially maintain.
If I had the expertise to fix the code on my own, I would not have spent the time to find and bother you, but better invest it to produce the solution and propose it to you.
If you ask for money - that could be a problem. I have no idea on the time needed to find the problem, to fix and to test it. Hiring a professional is probably beyond my budget as I am just an academics. As such, I am volunteering as well in multiple matters, trying to improve things - so I think when it comes to projects driven by enthusiastism, I share your engagement, but I don't think that a spirit of needing individual payments will lead to a better future for open source projects. If this was the way to go, I'd better buy a commercial text processor I can afford and stick with it.
But I am in the weaker position and already spent lots of time in a LaTeX-based thesis, so please let me know a price, and I have to see...
Thanks and best wishes,
Tobias
________________________________
Von: David Kastrup <dak <at> gnu.org>
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 25. Februar 2021 00:58
An: Bruckmann, Tobias
Cc: Ikumi Keita; 45894 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; 44578 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Betreff: Re: AW: AW: bug#45894: Bug report for preview-latex
"Bruckmann, Tobias" <tobias.bruckmann <at> uni-due.de> writes:
> Hi Ikumi, David
>
> this is a bad situation. I am quite surprised I am the first (and only?) one
> to stumble across this:
> - Most scientific works use vector EPS graphics. psfrag is extremely popular
> in this field.
> - Most works are published in PDF
> - You can't get around hyperref
>
> The combination of pstool and pdfLaTeX seems to be the most promising
> approach to me to join these points in one toolchain. Living with an old
> version might work for some months, but this can't be the future.
>
> So there's no pathway and this toolchain is dead forever?
>
> Thanks for your appreciated comment,
So what are you willing to invest to avert the catastrophe? In terms of
procuring code or paying for the time of those who do?
--
David Kastrup
[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]
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(Thu, 25 Feb 2021 13:11:02 GMT)
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Message #38 received at 45894 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
"Bruckmann, Tobias" <tobias.bruckmann <at> uni-due.de> writes:
> Dear David,
>
> this is a good question. I didn't want to push
Not?
> but just point out the relevance of the issue, believing that you feel
> a personal appreciation (and/or certain responsibility) for a code you
> officially maintain.
>
> If I had the expertise to fix the code on my own, I would not have
> spent the time to find and bother you, but better invest it to produce
> the solution and propose it to you.
>
> If you ask for money - that could be a problem. I have no idea on the
> time needed to find the problem, to fix and to test it. Hiring a
> professional is probably beyond my budget as I am just an
> academics. As such, I am volunteering as well in multiple matters,
> trying to improve things - so I think when it comes to projects driven
> by enthusiastism, I share your engagement, but I don't think that a
> spirit of needing individual payments will lead to a better future for
> open source projects.
I thought so. I've invested decades of my time in Free Software, living
below minimum wage, with the obvious consequences for my personal
future. All that buys you is people thinking they are entitled to it
and argue you should do more for them.
There are times when this motivational framework does not work all that
well for me.
--
David Kastrup
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(Mon, 01 Mar 2021 09:14:06 GMT)
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Message #41 received at 45894 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: David Kastrup <dak <at> gnu.org>
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 25. Februar 2021 14:10
> An: Bruckmann, Tobias <tobias.bruckmann <at> uni-due.de>
> Cc: Ikumi Keita <ikumi <at> ikumi.que.jp>; 45894 <at> debbugs.gnu.org;
> 44578 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Betreff: Re: AW: AW: bug#45894: Bug report for preview-latex
>
> "Bruckmann, Tobias" <tobias.bruckmann <at> uni-due.de> writes:
>
> > Dear David,
> >
> > this is a good question. I didn't want to push
>
> Not?
>
No. I just asked whether there is a chance that this gets a fix. You
mentioned that you are not seeing a chance to fix it due to conflicts
between Hyperref and LaTeX internals, and I wanted to know if this means the
toolchain I described is dead, despite its relevance for scientific authors.
If you confirm this, I will have to change my toolchain. Or look for other
people who stumble across the same issue and who are maybe able to fix it.
> > but just point out the relevance of the issue, believing that you feel
> > a personal appreciation (and/or certain responsibility) for a code you
> > officially maintain.
> >
> > If I had the expertise to fix the code on my own, I would not have
> > spent the time to find and bother you, but better invest it to produce
> > the solution and propose it to you.
> >
> > If you ask for money - that could be a problem. I have no idea on the
> > time needed to find the problem, to fix and to test it. Hiring a
> > professional is probably beyond my budget as I am just an academics.
> > As such, I am volunteering as well in multiple matters, trying to
> > improve things - so I think when it comes to projects driven by
> > enthusiastism, I share your engagement, but I don't think that a
> > spirit of needing individual payments will lead to a better future for
> > open source projects.
>
> I thought so. I've invested decades of my time in Free Software, living
below
> minimum wage, with the obvious consequences for my personal future. All
> that buys you is people thinking they are entitled to it and argue you
should do
> more for them.
>
> There are times when this motivational framework does not work all that
well
> for me.
I understand. But look, Free Software in its core concept was always driven
by enthusiasts who enjoy spending their leisure time in creating software
together. I agree, this implies that no one can push you. Now you join
the project and try to enforce a business model. I know how it feels if a
business plan fails, but you cannot blame the Free Software model, driven by
people doing things for themselves and others because of ... fun.
Note, I did not ask a company to implement an extra software feature for me,
but I asked the voluntary maintainers to give a comment on chances for a bug
fix.
Don't get me wrong, but on my side it feels like you turned the Free
Software maintainer position into a sales platform for your service.
Establishing a functionality in Free Software, letting people rely on it and
then(!) ask for money for bugfixes does not feel fair for me: If you intend
to make money
with software (which is absolutely reasonable), then create a product, put a
price tag on it and advertise. Then customers might buy it for a price they
know in advance, and the sum of their payments will pay your bills. This is
what commercial programmers do.
If you decide to create and advertise commercial LaTeX packages,
I totally might be amongst your customers if they simplify my work.
LaTeX
would probably take advantage from such entrepreneur initiatives, just like
Linux. But - please - dont change the rules during the game...
Tobias
>
> --
> David Kastrup
[smime.p7s (application/pkcs7-signature, attachment)]
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(Wed, 01 Sep 2021 18:45:02 GMT)
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Message #44 received at 45894 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
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Dear Ikumi,
6 months ago we had the conversation below, and as Mr. Kastrup decided not
to care for the issue without getting paid, I wanted to ask whether this bug
is still on the list of the auctex team.
I had some conversation here
https://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/587774/proper-toolchain-for-pdflatex
-and-psfrag-including-hyperref where also Ulrike Fischer commented. She also
created a separate burg report here
https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=44578
It seems the only proper solution is a fix in the preview package.
Thanks for a short comment,
Tobias
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Bruckmann, Tobias
Gesendet: Montag, 1. März 2021 10:14
An: 'David Kastrup' <dak <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Ikumi Keita <ikumi <at> ikumi.que.jp>; 45894 <at> debbugs.gnu.org;
44578 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Betreff: AW: AW: AW: bug#45894: Bug report for preview-latex
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: David Kastrup <dak <at> gnu.org>
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 25. Februar 2021 14:10
> An: Bruckmann, Tobias <tobias.bruckmann <at> uni-due.de>
> Cc: Ikumi Keita <ikumi <at> ikumi.que.jp>; 45894 <at> debbugs.gnu.org;
> 44578 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Betreff: Re: AW: AW: bug#45894: Bug report for preview-latex
>
> "Bruckmann, Tobias" <tobias.bruckmann <at> uni-due.de> writes:
>
> > Dear David,
> >
> > this is a good question. I didn't want to push
>
> Not?
>
No. I just asked whether there is a chance that this gets a fix. You
mentioned that you are not seeing a chance to fix it due to conflicts
between Hyperref and LaTeX internals, and I wanted to know if this means the
toolchain I described is dead, despite its relevance for scientific authors.
If you confirm this, I will have to change my toolchain. Or look for other
people who stumble across the same issue and who are maybe able to fix it.
> > but just point out the relevance of the issue, believing that you feel
> > a personal appreciation (and/or certain responsibility) for a code you
> > officially maintain.
> >
> > If I had the expertise to fix the code on my own, I would not have
> > spent the time to find and bother you, but better invest it to produce
> > the solution and propose it to you.
> >
> > If you ask for money - that could be a problem. I have no idea on the
> > time needed to find the problem, to fix and to test it. Hiring a
> > professional is probably beyond my budget as I am just an academics.
> > As such, I am volunteering as well in multiple matters, trying to
> > improve things - so I think when it comes to projects driven by
> > enthusiastism, I share your engagement, but I don't think that a
> > spirit of needing individual payments will lead to a better future for
> > open source projects.
>
> I thought so. I've invested decades of my time in Free Software, living
below
> minimum wage, with the obvious consequences for my personal future. All
> that buys you is people thinking they are entitled to it and argue you
should do
> more for them.
>
> There are times when this motivational framework does not work all that
well
> for me.
I understand. But look, Free Software in its core concept was always driven
by enthusiasts who enjoy spending their leisure time in creating software
together. I agree, this implies that no one can push you. Now you join
the project and try to enforce a business model. I know how it feels if a
business plan fails, but you cannot blame the Free Software model, driven by
people doing things for themselves and others because of ... fun.
Note, I did not ask a company to implement an extra software feature for me,
but I asked the voluntary maintainers to give a comment on chances for a bug
fix.
Don't get me wrong, but on my side it feels like you turned the Free
Software maintainer position into a sales platform for your service.
Establishing a functionality in Free Software, letting people rely on it and
then(!) ask for money for bugfixes does not feel fair for me: If you intend
to make money
with software (which is absolutely reasonable), then create a product, put a
price tag on it and advertise. Then customers might buy it for a price they
know in advance, and the sum of their payments will pay your bills. This is
what commercial programmers do.
If you decide to create and advertise commercial LaTeX packages,
I totally might be amongst your customers if they simplify my work.
LaTeX
would probably take advantage from such entrepreneur initiatives, just like
Linux. But - please - dont change the rules during the game...
Tobias
>
> --
> David Kastrup
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(Wed, 01 Sep 2021 18:55:02 GMT)
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Message #47 received at 45894 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
"Bruckmann, Tobias" <tobias.bruckmann <at> uni-due.de> writes:
> Dear Ikumi,
>
> 6 months ago we had the conversation below, and as Mr. Kastrup decided not
> to care for the issue without getting paid, I wanted to ask whether this bug
> is still on the list of the auctex team.
Mr Kastrup was not motivated by the entitlement attitude that demanded
he be happy to invest work, time and energy that was more than the
complainant was willing to invest.
And I cannot really say that the continued abuse and entitlement is
doing a particularly swell job of raising motivation.
--
David Kastrup
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(Thu, 02 Sep 2021 07:01:02 GMT)
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Message #50 received at 45894 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Dear Tobias,
>>>>> "Bruckmann, Tobias" <tobias.bruckmann <at> uni-due.de> writes:
> 6 months ago we had the conversation below, and as Mr. Kastrup decided
> not to care for the issue without getting paid, I wanted to ask
> whether this bug is still on the list of the auctex team.
This bug is registered in Bug Tracker of AUCTeX:
https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/pkgreport.cgi?which=pkg&data=auctex
So perhaps someone might pick it up and try to resolve it in future;
However, I think that hope is very weak. In my view, the (La)TeX
ecosystem is moving rapidly towards PDF centric realm with respect to
the graphic format and EPS is already considered (implicitly) as
semi-obsolete. In a decade, EPS would be totally obsolete as (La)TeX
graphic format.
You wrote
> - Most scientific works use vector EPS graphics.
before. If your tool supports only EPS as the format for outputs, my
recommendation is to ask the developer to update it to support other
format. If I remember correctly, many scientific tools which consider
interoperability with LaTeX recently supports TikZ code as export
format. Is it difficult to do so for your tool?
> The combination of pstool and pdfLaTeX seems to be the most promising
> approach to me to join these points in one toolchain.
For the reason described above, I don't think it's promising, at least
for usage with (La)TeX.
> So there's no pathway and this toolchain is dead forever?
The answer depends whether the developer of your tool adheres to EPS or
not, I think.
Regards,
Ikumi Keita
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(Thu, 02 Sep 2021 07:46:02 GMT)
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Message #53 received at 45894 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
Dear Ikumi,
first, I would like to thank you for taking the time to reflect the
situation and to give me some insight.
I would be perfectly fine with a purely PDF-based toolchain, and as I use
Inkscape as a graphics editor, that would be no problem. My only requirement
is the ability to replace text in graphics by LaTeX expressions, which is
why I use pstool.
(Well, to be honest, as I am in the middle of preparing a larger document
and as dozens of graphics are already prepared for pstool replacements, I
would be in favor of finalizing this single project using the pstool
approach...)
Are you aware of any approach to do these LaTeX text replacements in PDF
graphics already today?
I will try the TikZ format in between.
Thanks,
Tobias
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Ikumi Keita <ikumi <at> ikumi.que.jp>
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 2. September 2021 09:01
An: Bruckmann, Tobias <tobias.bruckmann <at> uni-due.de>
Cc: 45894 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; 44578 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Betreff: Future of EPS (was Re: bug#45894: Bug report for preview-latex)
Dear Tobias,
>>>>> "Bruckmann, Tobias" <tobias.bruckmann <at> uni-due.de> writes:
> 6 months ago we had the conversation below, and as Mr. Kastrup decided
> not to care for the issue without getting paid, I wanted to ask
> whether this bug is still on the list of the auctex team.
This bug is registered in Bug Tracker of AUCTeX:
https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/pkgreport.cgi?which=pkg&data=auctex
So perhaps someone might pick it up and try to resolve it in future;
However, I think that hope is very weak. In my view, the (La)TeX ecosystem
is moving rapidly towards PDF centric realm with respect to the graphic
format and EPS is already considered (implicitly) as semi-obsolete. In a
decade, EPS would be totally obsolete as (La)TeX graphic format.
You wrote
> - Most scientific works use vector EPS graphics.
before. If your tool supports only EPS as the format for outputs, my
recommendation is to ask the developer to update it to support other format.
If I remember correctly, many scientific tools which consider
interoperability with LaTeX recently supports TikZ code as export format. Is
it difficult to do so for your tool?
> The combination of pstool and pdfLaTeX seems to be the most promising
> approach to me to join these points in one toolchain.
For the reason described above, I don't think it's promising, at least for
usage with (La)TeX.
> So there's no pathway and this toolchain is dead forever?
The answer depends whether the developer of your tool adheres to EPS or not,
I think.
Regards,
Ikumi Keita
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(Thu, 02 Sep 2021 11:28:02 GMT)
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Message #56 received at 45894 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
>>>>> "Bruckmann, Tobias" <tobias.bruckmann <at> uni-due.de> writes:
> (Well, to be honest, as I am in the middle of preparing a larger document
> and as dozens of graphics are already prepared for pstool replacements, I
> would be in favor of finalizing this single project using the pstool
> approach...)
Old TeX distribution taken from https://www.tug.org/historic/ would
serve for such one-shot purpose, wouldn't it?
Or perhaps eps2pgf[1] might be of help for you. It says:
,----
| The most interesting part of eps2pgf is that it allows you to replace
| text in the EPS figure with arbitrary LaTeX markup. It is in fact an
| alternative to using tools like PSfrag, and it is even compatible with
| PSfrag. See the documentation for more details.
`----
It seems that eps2pgf is a rather old Java application and its
development was abondoned long before. A Japanese user made a Docker
container[2] for easy use of it, but I'm not sure it's really usable.
Regards,
Ikumi Keita
[1]https://texample.net/tikz/examples/eps2pgf/
[2]https://qiita.com/doraTeX/items/7705a6823d165d48979e
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(Fri, 03 Sep 2021 08:20:02 GMT)
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Message #59 received at 45894 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
>>>>> "Bruckmann, Tobias" <tobias.bruckmann <at> uni-due.de> writes:
> Are you aware of any approach to do these LaTeX text replacements in PDF
> graphics already today?
How about exporting figures _without_ texts and _adding_ annotation with
TikZ, as done in the attached example? In this way, no "text
replacements" are necessary.
Or is it too painful to adjust the position of the texts at LaTeX level,
not at the time of creation of figure?
Regards,
Ikumi Keita
[graphic-annot.tex (text/x-tex, inline)]
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{tikz}
\begin{document}
\begin{tikzpicture}
\node (figure) at (0,0) {\includegraphics[width=10cm]{tiger.pdf}};
\node at (figure.east) {foo};
\node at (figure.north west) {\(x^{2}+y^{2}=z^{2}\)};
\path (figure) ++(-2,-1) node[fill=white] {\Large\(E=mc^{2}\)};
\end{tikzpicture}
\end{document}
%%% Local Variables:
%%% mode: latex
%%% TeX-master: t
%%% End:
[graphic-annot.pdf (application/pdf, attachment)]
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(Fri, 03 Sep 2021 08:51:02 GMT)
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Message #62 received at 45894 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Ikumi Keita <ikumi <at> ikumi.que.jp> wrote:
> How about exporting figures _without_ texts and _adding_ annotation with
> TikZ, as done in the attached example? In this way, no "text
> replacements" are necessary.
The following answers could help with this approach:
https://tex.stackexchange.com/a/9562/73317
https://tex.stackexchange.com/a/610027/73317
Regards
--
Florent
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(Fri, 03 Sep 2021 14:12:02 GMT)
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Message #65 received at 45894 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
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Dear Ikumi,
thanks a lot, especially for the detailed description of possible
approaches.
As many figures are scientific plots, e.g. generated in MATLAB, containing
axes definitions and multiple textual informations, that would be hard to
realize...
Thanks anyways! I will try to test TikZ export functions available in MATLAB
and Inkscape.
Best wishes,
Tobias
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Ikumi Keita <ikumi <at> ikumi.que.jp>
Gesendet: Freitag, 3. September 2021 10:20
An: Bruckmann, Tobias <tobias.bruckmann <at> uni-due.de>
Cc: 45894 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; 44578 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Betreff: Re: Future of EPS (was Re: bug#45894: Bug report for preview-latex)
>>>>> "Bruckmann, Tobias" <tobias.bruckmann <at> uni-due.de> writes:
> Are you aware of any approach to do these LaTeX text replacements in
> PDF graphics already today?
How about exporting figures _without_ texts and _adding_ annotation with
TikZ, as done in the attached example? In this way, no "text replacements"
are necessary.
Or is it too painful to adjust the position of the texts at LaTeX level, not
at the time of creation of figure?
Regards,
Ikumi Keita
[smime.p7s (application/pkcs7-signature, attachment)]
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(Tue, 05 Oct 2021 13:32:02 GMT)
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Message #68 received at 45894 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Dear David Kastrup
I have encountered a problem involving the latex package preview. If I understand well it is due to "a change in the latex shipout routine" in the last versions. I read the threads on the GNU bug reports 44578 and 45894 about the problem. It appears you are the current maintainer of preview, but unfortunately do not currently have the ressources to take care this problem.
I am unable to do it myself, but there were some mention of maybe paying for your expertise. Would you be willing to estimate a cost at which you could take proper care of the problem, or maybe point me to other people with enough knowledge to do it?
Regards
Hugo Raguet
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Message #71 received at 45894 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Hugo Raguet <hugo.raguet <at> insa-cvl.fr> writes:
> Dear David Kastrup
>
> I have encountered a problem involving the latex package preview. If I
> understand well it is due to "a change in the latex shipout routine"
> in the last versions. I read the threads on the GNU bug reports 44578
> and 45894 about the problem. It appears you are the current maintainer
> of preview, but unfortunately do not currently have the ressources to
> take care this problem.
>
> I am unable to do it myself, but there were some mention of maybe
> paying for your expertise. Would you be willing to estimate a cost at
> which you could take proper care of the problem, or maybe point me to
> other people with enough knowledge to do it?
Reading reports, analysing and understanding problem: €50
Reading up on the tools LaTeX now wants instead: €30
Devising and implementing a fix €30
Backward compatibility €10
Cleaning up and shepherding through AUCTeX repository €25
Submitting and shepherding through CTAN €25
Dealing with problem reports and feedback €25
Total: €195
Everybody will tell you that this is a total ripoff (the actual code
will likely not be more than a dozen lines) and nobody will volunteer to
do it for that price, judging from experience. I spent years on
creating preview-latex and got probably about double that amount in
return.
You'll find people with the necessary skills easily on TeX/LaTeX forums
and mailing lists, and maybe the outrage at my insolent demands will
help motivate someone to earn a few Karma points. Just don't expect too
much regarding the followup work.
Good luck!
--
David Kastrup
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(Fri, 08 Oct 2021 13:02:02 GMT)
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Message #74 received at 45894 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
David Kastrup <dak <at> gnu.org> writes:
Hi all,
>> I have encountered a problem involving the latex package preview. If
>> I understand well it is due to "a change in the latex shipout
>> routine" in the last versions. I read the threads on the GNU bug
>> reports 44578 and 45894 about the problem. It appears you are the
>> current maintainer of preview, but unfortunately do not currently
>> have the ressources to take care this problem.
>>
>> I am unable to do it myself, but there were some mention of maybe
>> paying for your expertise. Would you be willing to estimate a cost at
>> which you could take proper care of the problem, or maybe point me to
>> other people with enough knowledge to do it?
>
> Reading reports, analysing and understanding problem: €50
> Reading up on the tools LaTeX now wants instead: €30
> Devising and implementing a fix €30
> Backward compatibility €10
> Cleaning up and shepherding through AUCTeX repository €25
> Submitting and shepherding through CTAN €25
> Dealing with problem reports and feedback €25
>
> Total: €195
>
> Everybody will tell you that this is a total ripoff (the actual code
> will likely not be more than a dozen lines) and nobody will volunteer
> to do it for that price, judging from experience.
To me the price seems absolutely reasonable (I had expected much more),
so I'd very much suggest Hugo & Tobias simply accept the offer and share
the price. Feel free to discuss that off-list and contact David when
you came to a conclusion.
Bye,
Tassilo
This bug report was last modified 3 years and 252 days ago.
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