From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 11 19:32:43 2021 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jan 2021 00:32:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58762 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kz7c3-0005BZ-D7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jan 2021 19:32:43 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:40696) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kz7c0-0005BO-Eh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jan 2021 19:32:42 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41230) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kz7c0-0003z4-31 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jan 2021 19:32:40 -0500 Received: from aserp2130.oracle.com ([141.146.126.79]:55988) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kz7bx-0007eR-Eh for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jan 2021 19:32:39 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 10C0Tveo030255 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 00:32:34 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : subject : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=q6D8hYQKFqWfECytA7Fj3uJrJ67rqRVE3CU0NBP/UeU=; b=iHHAqyqSRvFY0DBAw7YBgXCpup4psqwTgHNQ5jEfp4WS4PRJP9i395Ba7U8lyBRLdV0T sGas6/N3TgwnoTDWgjQx38pletDexJgve0ioGHqCnNBaF657dhQcPkLaO3wh4qfzpZtf zQWYK8ljmlNNUih0o8Ql/UzQaixd1uDSHbOt9NwXjzoawFY8wpTeOpYs+V1PDapESQwo i2A8xXO8vk+wkDNou0oe2kBHHdUhV77H5Y0W7aEqw230pF6gYBOldo4CpMJmu4u+txQG PWmosfN3DxfbosUZ8uPAMeP2sw0jBI+h/IBdvYHIZ7YfJkTktPidu0dvTuYL/5yAS7LC 9Q== Received: from aserp3030.oracle.com (aserp3030.oracle.com [141.146.126.71]) by aserp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 360kg1kwtb-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 00:32:33 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 10C0Tv3f136429 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 00:32:33 GMT Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by aserp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 360kex2xpr-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 00:32:33 +0000 Received: from abhmp0011.oracle.com (abhmp0011.oracle.com [141.146.116.17]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 10C0WWEx028049 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 00:32:32 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <73e90890-b70a-4eb8-aa9e-d40959d1e1ec@default> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 16:32:31 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 26.3; `menu-bar-separator' X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5095.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9861 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 mlxscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2101120000 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9861 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 clxscore=1015 impostorscore=0 spamscore=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2101120000 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=141.146.126.79; envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=aserp2130.oracle.com X-Spam_score_int: -46 X-Spam_score: -4.7 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.251, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) This variable (defconst) doesn't seem to be documented anywhere. It seems to be used for menus in general; it doesn't seem to be tied to the menu-bar in any way. And its only doc is the doc string, which says only "Separator for menus." Could it be renamed to remove any mention of the menu-bar (keeping the old name as alias)? How is it actually used? Is it used only in (some?) toolkits? It's a defconst (why?), so presumably you shouldn't change it. But changing it doesn't seem to have any effect anyway, in MS Windows. If this is hard-coded then why is it even needed? In GNU Emacs 26.3 (build 1, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2019-08-29 Repository revision: 96dd0196c28bc36779584e47fffcca433c9309cd Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 10.0.18362 Configured using: `configure --without-dbus --host=3Dx86_64-w64-mingw32 --without-compress-install 'CFLAGS=3D-O2 -static -g3'' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 12 10:04:31 2021 Received: (at 45806) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jan 2021 15:04:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32818 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kzLDi-0003zj-Qn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 10:04:31 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:36862) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kzLDg-0003zV-RT for 45806@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 10:04:29 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:60946) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kzLDb-0007QM-5n; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 10:04:23 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:1920 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kzLDY-0007MD-OB; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 10:04:23 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2021 17:04:34 +0200 Message-Id: <83pn2adwn1.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: <73e90890-b70a-4eb8-aa9e-d40959d1e1ec@default> (message from Drew Adams on Mon, 11 Jan 2021 16:32:31 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: bug#45806: 26.3; `menu-bar-separator' References: <73e90890-b70a-4eb8-aa9e-d40959d1e1ec@default> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45806 Cc: 45806@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 16:32:31 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > > This variable (defconst) doesn't seem to be documented anywhere. It has a doc string, and if you look at its usage, this is all you'll ever need. > It seems to be used for menus in general; it doesn't seem to be tied to > the menu-bar in any way. And its only doc is the doc string, which says > only "Separator for menus." Could it be renamed to remove any mention > of the menu-bar (keeping the old name as alias)? Sorry, this name is with us for too long to rename it now. > How is it actually used? Is it used only in (some?) toolkits? Look at menu-bar.el (obviously), it's used all over there. On all the toolkits and also in no-toolkit builds. > It's a defconst (why?), so presumably you shouldn't change it. But > changing it doesn't seem to have any effect anyway, in MS Windows. If > this is hard-coded then why is it even needed? See above. If you really want to see the effect of changing it (why?), I think you will need to rebuild Emacs. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 12 11:34:16 2021 Received: (at 45806) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jan 2021 16:34:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32939 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kzMcZ-0006Qo-ON for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 11:34:15 -0500 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:40510) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kzMcX-0006QV-6b for 45806@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 11:34:14 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 10CGXmLX002150; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 16:34:07 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=MQRwa0+LAfzijmmSVVKKNF6+T+AXn5JZ2/EMg7zIfdc=; b=FW66FF/Tyy2ADo2hGTql7LQarmjWoJILEPk9YQy4cnpESX6H3S4GaWqPEjWLdICQr9j1 bOGOKd9Xhyu1C5naGyF2jFE57H6l/8ktOc5lA4eI8XZC/Db5vhbbs8lGNnKRpUWaNRQz YHoLHB4XkKVl/XnzFwV0j3wTawPr73Q4LKB/RdxKMJJXuroE0Xy+OLo7XQfBFzgT84P6 XPEenuKL9i+dAMxT9gg7aIVXuZkKbA6ZiUVTJx0tP3iwEeRps3FGoFX8eT4PgtH6d50a 3Em2FK8upICaVbRNar6oQUPE2ZGgF4xke3rTumjLwRAzdJRGavrpCIg//l12GSVd0cdn rQ== Received: from userp3030.oracle.com (userp3030.oracle.com [156.151.31.80]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 360kcyq9bm-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Jan 2021 16:34:07 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 10CGQYrt158777; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 16:34:06 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by userp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 360keh90d0-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Jan 2021 16:34:06 +0000 Received: from abhmp0003.oracle.com (abhmp0003.oracle.com [141.146.116.9]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 10CGY5rm030791; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 16:34:05 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <4313a39b-5d20-4fff-ab14-fb9be0a43a78@default> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2021 08:34:04 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Subject: RE: bug#45806: 26.3; `menu-bar-separator' References: <<73e90890-b70a-4eb8-aa9e-d40959d1e1ec@default>> <<83pn2adwn1.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83pn2adwn1.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5095.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9862 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2101120094 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9862 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 impostorscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 clxscore=1011 mlxlogscore=999 mlxscore=0 priorityscore=1501 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2101120095 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45806 Cc: 45806@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Sorry, this name is with us for too long to rename it now. Not a great reason not to rename and alias. > > How is it actually used? Is it used only in (some?) toolkits? >=20 > Look at menu-bar.el (obviously), it's used all over there. On all the > toolkits and also in no-toolkit builds. I already looked at all occurrences in the Lisp sources. AFAICT, _none_ of those occurrences show how it's used in the sense of explaining its effect. I'm looking for info about its implementation and what it actually does - info presumably available in some C code. HOW it does what it does. See also the question about whether it's used only by toolkits. In GUI Emacs on MS Windows, for instance, the effect of a separator is a continuous separator line, while the effect with `emacs -nw' seems to be a pair of hyphen chars. > > It's a defconst (why?), so presumably you shouldn't change it. But > > changing it doesn't seem to have any effect anyway, in MS Windows. If > > this is hard-coded then why is it even needed? >=20 > See above. If you really want to see the effect of changing it > (why?), I think you will need to rebuild Emacs. You think so? How about having the doc specify that, or whatever the actual behavior is. FWIW, this bug report is a result of seeing this user question: "Is it possible to change the menu separator?" https://emacs.stackexchange.com/q/62717/105 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 12 12:03:48 2021 Received: (at 45806-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jan 2021 17:03:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32963 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kzN59-0007Gw-MK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 12:03:47 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39216) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kzN56-0007Gi-G9 for 45806-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 12:03:46 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:35270) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kzN50-0000Ef-0z; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 12:03:38 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:1306 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kzN4p-0005X2-8Z; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 12:03:30 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2021 19:03:40 +0200 Message-Id: <835z42dr4j.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: <4313a39b-5d20-4fff-ab14-fb9be0a43a78@default> (message from Drew Adams on Tue, 12 Jan 2021 08:34:04 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: bug#45806: 26.3; `menu-bar-separator' References: <<73e90890-b70a-4eb8-aa9e-d40959d1e1ec@default>> <<83pn2adwn1.fsf@gnu.org>> <4313a39b-5d20-4fff-ab14-fb9be0a43a78@default> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45806-done Cc: 45806-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2021 08:34:04 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 45806@debbugs.gnu.org > > > Sorry, this name is with us for too long to rename it now. > > Not a great reason not to rename and alias. Why am I not surprised that you don't accept the judgment of the project maintainers? > > > How is it actually used? Is it used only in (some?) toolkits? > > > > Look at menu-bar.el (obviously), it's used all over there. On all the > > toolkits and also in no-toolkit builds. > > I already looked at all occurrences in the Lisp sources. Then I really wonder why are you asking all these questions. > AFAICT, _none_ of those occurrences show how it's used > in the sense of explaining its effect. You see the effect as soon as you look at the menus which use it. > I'm looking for info about its implementation and what > it actually does - info presumably available in some C > code. HOW it does what it does. The HOW is always in the code, so filing a bug about the documentation is not going to reveal that: we won't describe the implementation in the documentation. So I'm closing this bug report. > See also the question about whether it's used only by > toolkits. In GUI Emacs on MS Windows, for instance, > the effect of a separator is a continuous separator > line, while the effect with `emacs -nw' seems to be a > pair of hyphen chars. Each toolkit/UI variant produces its particular visual, but they all do, and the effect is the same: to visually separate between groups of menu items. > > See above. If you really want to see the effect of changing it > > (why?), I think you will need to rebuild Emacs. > > You think so? How about having the doc specify that, > or whatever the actual behavior is. I see no reason. You are looking for the kind of internal details that are always found in the code. > FWIW, this bug report is a result of seeing this user > question: > > "Is it possible to change the menu separator?" > > https://emacs.stackexchange.com/q/62717/105 Not every question means something is wrong with our documentation. Sometimes the answer is "use the source, Luc". From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 12 13:09:19 2021 Received: (at 45806-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jan 2021 18:09:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33063 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kzO6Y-0002gJ-Rb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 13:09:19 -0500 Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:45174) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kzO6W-0002g5-Tl for 45806-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 13:09:17 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 10CI98EN029532; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 18:09:10 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=aMkoMY1ZSas5UgimRBRWYAobVuLvrYHxMUlSptL4fpY=; b=bNcNEtRBLhyowChUPBtxjZACrcXbvmOTtZA0QWkq9FCb3PZHdC+RZN6xP1datZrf6s6d dtDb+Q+oFNVwwDptqaTVeUDW1dShYq+43l8NZgIcAAarr57JPQ+1Q3xRPtyf1YtvC0o2 k7bsL4bEN1cBJ9lqj91U6ySRX31FD20VpxLVO2n0C4t1thmBQAGq2eEMVcIXMa9x7K3r WYxDmvaTkMQg0TEwjP6eN3GHMg8RtqRmu/TcDsYCz62LPnWy1bq7ZyWlhpqr1RBRI5FY FNd/4P3Y/kd1yoY+DWB5CLMBw9zaOAK/fDFD72SAS8RIs2kySlPDzMlBN3EUQy/hssEn eQ== Received: from userp3030.oracle.com (userp3030.oracle.com [156.151.31.80]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 360kvjymds-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Jan 2021 18:09:10 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 10CI6ZRW115788; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 18:09:10 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by userp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 360kehef2j-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Jan 2021 18:09:10 +0000 Received: from abhmp0003.oracle.com (abhmp0003.oracle.com [141.146.116.9]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 10CI9936015506; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 18:09:09 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <8ba18d55-3484-4186-b8c2-0335cd8b7b7c@default> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2021 10:09:08 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: bug#45806: 26.3; `menu-bar-separator' References: <<73e90890-b70a-4eb8-aa9e-d40959d1e1ec@default>> <<83pn2adwn1.fsf@gnu.org>> <4313a39b-5d20-4fff-ab14-fb9be0a43a78@default> <835z42dr4j.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <835z42dr4j.fsf@gnu.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5095.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9862 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2101120107 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9862 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxlogscore=999 phishscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 bulkscore=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 clxscore=1011 impostorscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2101120107 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45806-done Cc: 45806-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > > Sorry, this name is with us for too long to rename it now. > > > > Not a great reason not to rename and alias. IMHO. > Why am I not surprised that you don't accept the judgment of the > project maintainers? Why am I not surprised that you are personally hostile, and interpret an opinion as non-acceptance of a decision? Can we not politely agree to disagree about what should be done, without your going off again on your claims of insubordination? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 12 13:22:02 2021 Received: (at 45806) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jan 2021 18:22:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33088 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kzOIq-00031N-Dw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 13:22:02 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:58730) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kzOIo-000319-Ch for 45806@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 13:21:58 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:37158) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kzOIj-0002GM-1B; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 13:21:53 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2379 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kzOIe-0006My-Jx; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 13:21:49 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2021 20:22:03 +0200 Message-Id: <83r1mqc8xg.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: <8ba18d55-3484-4186-b8c2-0335cd8b7b7c@default> (message from Drew Adams on Tue, 12 Jan 2021 10:09:08 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: bug#45806: 26.3; `menu-bar-separator' References: <<73e90890-b70a-4eb8-aa9e-d40959d1e1ec@default>> <<83pn2adwn1.fsf@gnu.org>> <4313a39b-5d20-4fff-ab14-fb9be0a43a78@default> <835z42dr4j.fsf@gnu.org> <8ba18d55-3484-4186-b8c2-0335cd8b7b7c@default> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45806 Cc: 45806@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2021 10:09:08 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 45806-done@debbugs.gnu.org > > > Why am I not surprised that you don't accept the judgment of the > > project maintainers? > > Why am I not surprised that you are personally > hostile, and interpret an opinion as non-acceptance > of a decision? You expressed your opinion, heard is rejection, and you keep arguing. Are you aware that every one of your messages with repetitive disagreements means another message I need to read and consider? Do you think I have lots of free time for doing that? > Can we not politely agree to disagree about what > should be done We can, but one message from each side should be enough for that. There should be no need for "I heard you, but I still disagree". It's a waste of time and energy. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 12 13:23:07 2021 Received: (at 45806) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jan 2021 18:23:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33092 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kzOJv-00033f-AT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 13:23:07 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:59004) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kzOJt-00032u-VV for 45806@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 13:23:06 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:37185) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kzOJo-0002h7-Pd; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 13:23:00 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2451 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kzOJn-0006UT-GW; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 13:22:59 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2021 20:23:14 +0200 Message-Id: <83pn2ac8vh.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: <8ba18d55-3484-4186-b8c2-0335cd8b7b7c@default> (message from Drew Adams on Tue, 12 Jan 2021 10:09:08 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: bug#45806: 26.3; `menu-bar-separator' References: <<73e90890-b70a-4eb8-aa9e-d40959d1e1ec@default>> <<83pn2adwn1.fsf@gnu.org>> <4313a39b-5d20-4fff-ab14-fb9be0a43a78@default> <835z42dr4j.fsf@gnu.org> <8ba18d55-3484-4186-b8c2-0335cd8b7b7c@default> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45806 Cc: 45806@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2021 10:09:08 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 45806-done@debbugs.gnu.org > > > Why am I not surprised that you don't accept the judgment of the > > project maintainers? > > Why am I not surprised that you are personally > hostile, and interpret an opinion as non-acceptance > of a decision? You expressed your opinion, heard its rejection, but you keep arguing. That generates more messages than necessary and increase the workload for no good reason, while telling nothing new. Why increase the noise level here? > Can we not politely agree to disagree about what > should be done We can, but one message from each side should be enough for that. There should be no need for "I heard you, but I still disagree". It's a waste of time and energy. From unknown Tue Aug 19 21:02:10 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 12:24:03 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator