From unknown Mon Aug 18 14:26:34 2025 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#4562: 23.1; Customize State button problems Reply-To: "Drew Adams" , 4562@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs 2Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 18:45:04 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 4562 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.125399024227251 (code B ref -1); Sat, 26 Sep 2009 18:45:04 +0000 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 26 Sep 2009 18:37:22 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=4.0 tests=AWL,FOURLA,SUBJECT_FUZZY_TION autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n8QIbL1g027248 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 2009 11:37:22 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Mrc92-0004c6-Sl for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Sep 2009 14:37:20 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Mrc8x-0004bO-Cd for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Sep 2009 14:37:19 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=55735 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Mrc8x-0004bK-6H for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Sep 2009 14:37:15 -0400 Received: from acsinet12.oracle.com ([141.146.126.234]:62269) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Mrc8w-0007SA-JV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Sep 2009 14:37:14 -0400 Received: from rgminet13.oracle.com (rcsinet13.oracle.com [148.87.113.125]) by acsinet12.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n8QIaJnA030467 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sat, 26 Sep 2009 18:36:20 GMT Received: from abhmt002.oracle.com (abhmt002.oracle.com [141.146.116.11]) by rgminet13.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n8QIbZN6024562 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 2009 18:37:35 GMT Received: from dradamslap1 (/24.5.190.74) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 26 Sep 2009 11:37:06 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 11:37:07 -0700 Message-ID: <75988BB2DE8C4DE6A16228719FF4E6EF@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Aco+2FoTYlFuW1bsQByJBWvVKmyPew== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Source-IP: abhmt002.oracle.com [141.146.116.11] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090209.4ABE5F53.00E9:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) emacs -Q 1. M-x customize-option default-frame-alist The State text says "CHANGED outside Customize; operating on it here may be unreliable.", which is untrue. This is immediately after using `emacs -Q'. 2. Not only that, but the State menu shows `Undo Edits', even though nothing has ever been edited. 3. If you in fact choose `Undo Edits', nothing happens, and `Undo Edits' remains active in the State menu. 4. If you edit, e.g. click a DEL button, and then Set for Current Session, and then you click `Reset to Backup', then the message says "CHANGED outside Customize; operating on it here may be unreliable." Again, this is incorrect - nothing was changed outside Customize. In general, the State menu and its messages are pretty messed up. It is quite confusing and error prone. Customize is supposed to be, among other things, intended for non-Lisper novice users. It's no wonder that so many hate it or give up in disbelief or incomprehension. In GNU Emacs 23.1.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2009-07-29 on SOFT-MJASON Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (4.4)' From unknown Mon Aug 18 14:26:34 2025 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#4562: 23.1; Customize State button problems Reply-To: Stefan Monnier , 4562@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs 2Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 05:50:06 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-Emacs-PR-Message: followup 4562 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by 4562-submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B4562.125411647420832 (code B ref 4562); Mon, 28 Sep 2009 05:50:06 +0000 Received: (at 4562) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 28 Sep 2009 05:41:14 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,FOURLA,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, SUBJECT_FUZZY_TION autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from ironport2-out.pppoe.ca (ironport2-out.teksavvy.com [206.248.154.183]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n8S5fCqx020828 for <4562@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:41:13 -0700 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvIEAA7pv0pFxIo//2dsb2JhbACBUNEbhB4Fh30 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.44,464,1249272000"; d="scan'208";a="46686600" Received: from 69-196-138-63.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO ceviche.home) ([69.196.138.63]) by ironport2-out.pppoe.ca with ESMTP; 28 Sep 2009 01:41:06 -0400 Received: by ceviche.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id F0FA7B4228; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 01:41:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Drew Adams Cc: 4562@debbugs.gnu.org Message-ID: References: <75988BB2DE8C4DE6A16228719FF4E6EF@us.oracle.com> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 01:41:05 -0400 In-Reply-To: <75988BB2DE8C4DE6A16228719FF4E6EF@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 26 Sep 2009 11:37:07 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > The State text says "CHANGED outside Customize; operating on it here > may be unreliable.", which is untrue. This is immediately after using > `emacs -Q'. You misunderstand: "CHANGED outside Customize" doesn't mean "You changed it", but instead it means "some Lisp code somewhere changed it without telling Customize". That Lisp code could be in your .emacs, but not necesarily. I hope this makes the rest of the behavior a bit more understable (tho probably not completely clear since it seems some part are indeed odd). So what you have here is simply a bug where Emacs's startup code modifies default-frame-alist without telling Customize about it. IIUC it's not easy to fix it, because some of those changes are things which shoujldn't be saved in the Custom version of default-frame-alist (they are dynamically set at startup depending on your window-system and/or command-line args). I guess basically what it means is that default-frame-alist shouldn't be a defcustom becaude we don't know how to let Custom handle it correctly. Stefan From unknown Mon Aug 18 14:26:34 2025 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#4562: 23.1; Customize State button problems Reply-To: "Drew Adams" , 4562@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs 2Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 09:00:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-Emacs-PR-Message: followup 4562 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by 4562-submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B4562.125412804720078 (code B ref 4562); Mon, 28 Sep 2009 09:00:03 +0000 Received: (at 4562) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 28 Sep 2009 08:54:07 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.8 required=4.0 tests=AWL,FOURLA,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, SUBJECT_FUZZY_TION autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from rgminet11.oracle.com (rcsinet11.oracle.com [148.87.113.123]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n8S8s6tA020075 for <4562@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 01:54:07 -0700 Received: from rgminet13.oracle.com (rcsinet13.oracle.com [148.87.113.125]) by rgminet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n8S8svpq004916 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 28 Sep 2009 08:54:58 GMT Received: from abhmt014.oracle.com (abhmt014.oracle.com [141.146.116.23]) by rgminet13.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n8S8sPe8020680; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 08:54:25 GMT Received: from dradamslap1 (/24.5.190.74) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 01:53:56 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Stefan Monnier'" Cc: <4562@debbugs.gnu.org> References: <75988BB2DE8C4DE6A16228719FF4E6EF@us.oracle.com> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 01:54:14 -0700 Message-ID: <664EEF39729C43539A95144DF1E4DDA9@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Aco//ogIPIAq7WmDQIuCj7/dSRr/BQAGdBHw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Source-IP: abhmt014.oracle.com [141.146.116.23] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090201.4AC079A5.00D5:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 > > The State text says "CHANGED outside Customize; operating on it here > > may be unreliable.", which is untrue. This is immediately > > after using `emacs -Q'. > > You misunderstand: "CHANGED outside Customize" doesn't mean > "You changed it", but instead it means "some Lisp code somewhere > changed it without telling Customize". I do understand that. Perhaps I shouldn't have said "which is untrue". The point is that the message is not helpful to users. It shouldn't be the case that a virgin session, without loading anything else, starts out by saying that something changed the Customize initial settings, that is, what Customize expects its virgin state to be isn't. Unless you're saying that it is normal for the initial Customize state to be that. In which case I don't know whether I would agree, but I would in any case say it's not normal to state things in those terms to users at the outset. > That Lisp code could be in your .emacs, but > not necesarily. I hope this makes the rest of the behavior a bit more > understable (tho probably not completely clear since it seems > some part are indeed odd). > > So what you have here is simply a bug where Emacs's startup code > modifies default-frame-alist without telling Customize about it. That's what I'm talking about (though I don't know the details). > IIUC it's not easy to fix it, because some of those changes are things > which shoujldn't be saved in the Custom version of default-frame-alist > (they are dynamically set at startup depending on your window-system > and/or command-line args). I guess basically what it means is that > default-frame-alist shouldn't be a defcustom becaude we don't know how > to let Custom handle it correctly. I won't pronounce on any of that. I will say that seeing that message at the outset is not a good thing. What the right remedy is, I can't say. Maybe it _is_ normal to start out the way we do (dunno), but in that case, we should at least suppress (fudge) the scary message. From rgm@gnu.org Wed Nov 4 14:01:42 2009 Received: (at control) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 4 Nov 2009 22:01:42 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.8 required=4.0 tests=AWL,ONEWORD,VALID_BTS_CONTROL autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id nA4M1e7A002782 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2009 14:01:42 -0800 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1N5nv9-0000E4-Ub; Wed, 04 Nov 2009 17:01:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19185.63939.653937.427902@fencepost.gnu.org> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 17:01:39 -0500 From: Glenn Morris To: control Subject: control severity 3631 minor severity 3267 minor reassign 3267 emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com severity 3481 minor severity 3644 minor severity 3722 wishlist severity 4360 minor tags 3613 wontfix tags 2134 = severity 4731 minor severity 3849 wishlist close 3564 merge 4668 3227 tags 2792 wontfix minor severity 4433 minor severity 4668 minor severity 4562 minor severity 3934 minor severity 3856 minor severity 3801 minor severity 3615 minor severity 3599 minor severity 3598 minor severity 3575 minor severity 3566 minor severity 3550 minor severity 3549 minor severity 3527 minor severity 3525 minor severity 3524 minor severity 3523 minor severity 3519 minor severity 3509 minor severity 3503 minor severity 3393 minor severity 3371 minor severity 3320 minor severity 3313 minor severity 3249 minor severity 3227 minor severity 3138 minor severity 3135 minor severity 3137 minor severity 3052 minor severity 3042 minor severity 2974 minor severity 2946 minor severity 2792 minor severity 1749 minor severity 1375 minor severity 1144 minor From unknown Mon Aug 18 14:26:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#4562: 23.1; Customize State button problems Resent-From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 14:14:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 4562 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: 4562@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams Received: via spool by 4562-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B4562.13105664089744 (code B ref 4562); Wed, 13 Jul 2011 14:14:03 +0000 Received: (at 4562) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jul 2011 14:13:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qh0Bo-0002Wy-Lz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 10:13:28 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qh0Bb-0002WA-Cf for 4562@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 10:13:18 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=quimbies.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Qh0BN-00017X-Ju; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 16:12:57 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Mon, 28 Sep 2009 01:41:05 -0400") Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 15:57:46 +0200 Message-ID: References: <75988BB2DE8C4DE6A16228719FF4E6EF@us.oracle.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-Now-Playing: Talking Heads's _Fear Of Music_: "Mind" X-Hashcash: 1:23:110713:monnier@iro.umontreal.ca::vt2ULg3ONfj/mlUl:0000000000000000000000000000000000000ferk X-Hashcash: 1:23:110713:drew.adams@oracle.com::ngxIloSrZ3BoDmS1:0000000000000000000000000000000000000001PWyZ X-Hashcash: 1:23:110713:4562@debbugs.gnu.org::4JnaHQ4ifqGnpvqp:00000000000000000000000000000000000000002UjLp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1Qh0BN-00017X-Ju X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1311171177.77371@wqbDv2am/J/TsOI/vOfkOg X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) Stefan Monnier writes: > So what you have here is simply a bug where Emacs's startup code > modifies default-frame-alist without telling Customize about it. > IIUC it's not easy to fix it, because some of those changes are things > which shoujldn't be saved in the Custom version of default-frame-alist > (they are dynamically set at startup depending on your window-system > and/or command-line args). I guess basically what it means is that > default-frame-alist shouldn't be a defcustom becaude we don't know how > to let Custom handle it correctly. So should we just change `default-frame-alist' to a `defvar'? I can't even find the custom definition of this variable. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From unknown Mon Aug 18 14:26:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#4562: 23.1; Customize State button problems Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 15:26:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 4562 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen'" , "'Stefan Monnier'" Cc: 4562@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 4562-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B4562.131057075629891 (code B ref 4562); Wed, 13 Jul 2011 15:26:01 +0000 Received: (at 4562) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jul 2011 15:25:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qh1K0-0007m4-7R for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 11:25:56 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qh1Jy-0007ls-3H for 4562@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 11:25:54 -0400 Received: from rtcsinet22.oracle.com (rtcsinet22.oracle.com [66.248.204.30]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p6DFPjan016946 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 13 Jul 2011 15:25:47 GMT Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by rtcsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p6DFPhsr023914 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 13 Jul 2011 15:25:44 GMT Received: from abhmt103.oracle.com (abhmt103.oracle.com [141.146.116.55]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p6DFPcvR021845; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 10:25:38 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 08:25:37 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" References: <75988BB2DE8C4DE6A16228719FF4E6EF@us.oracle.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 08:25:37 -0700 Message-ID: <73D511E60E1D48698C18EF8F9B6BCCE9@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcxBZwGH9lDmX0I2QaiG5swhDXiSWwACM3+g X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: rtcsinet22.oracle.com [66.248.204.30] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A020202.4E1DB8FC.0042:SCFSTAT5015188, ss=1, re=-4.000, fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) > So should we just change `default-frame-alist' to a `defvar'? Certainly not. This is an important user option. Likewise all the other `*-frame-alist' options. From unknown Mon Aug 18 14:26:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#4562: 23.1; Customize State button problems Resent-From: Chong Yidong Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 16:00:04 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 4562 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Cc: 4562@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , Drew Adams Received: via spool by 4562-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B4562.13105727526887 (code B ref 4562); Wed, 13 Jul 2011 16:00:04 +0000 Received: (at 4562) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jul 2011 15:59:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qh1qB-0001n2-9e for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 11:59:11 -0400 Received: from vm-emlprdomr-03.its.yale.edu ([130.132.50.144]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qh1qA-0001mr-Cy for 4562@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 11:59:10 -0400 Received: from furball (dhcp128036014218.central.yale.edu [128.36.14.218]) (authenticated bits=0) by vm-emlprdomr-03.its.yale.edu (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p6DFx3ql008352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Wed, 13 Jul 2011 11:59:04 -0400 From: Chong Yidong References: <75988BB2DE8C4DE6A16228719FF4E6EF@us.oracle.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 11:59:03 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen's message of "Wed, 13 Jul 2011 15:57:46 +0200") Message-ID: <87oc0y18ag.fsf@stupidchicken.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.71 on 130.132.50.144 X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes: > So should we just change `default-frame-alist' to a `defvar'? > > I can't even find the custom definition of this variable. The custom definition is in cus-start.el; that's where we put custom definitions for built-in variables. But the original bug no longer exists: > 1. M-x customize-option default-frame-alist > > The State text says "CHANGED outside Customize; operating on it here > may be unreliable.", which is untrue. This is immediately after using > `emacs -Q'. Several moons ago, I changed the frame code so that default-frame-alist interacts properly with customize. In particular, the default value is now nil. So this is a zombie bug; I'm closing it. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 13 11:59:33 2011 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jul 2011 15:59:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qh1qX-0001nm-HA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 11:59:33 -0400 Received: from vm-emlprdomr-05.its.yale.edu ([130.132.50.146]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qh1qV-0001nY-PK for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 11:59:32 -0400 Received: from furball (dhcp128036014218.central.yale.edu [128.36.14.218]) (authenticated bits=0) by vm-emlprdomr-05.its.yale.edu (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p6DFxQ2S015019 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 11:59:26 -0400 From: Chong Yidong To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: close 4562 Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 11:59:25 -0400 Message-ID: <87zkkiw4rm.fsf@stupidchicken.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.71 on 130.132.50.146 X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) close 4562 thanks