From unknown Sat Sep 20 05:16:28 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#45438 <45438@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#45438 <45438@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 27.1; please fix misleading documentation for assoc-delete-all Reply-To: bug#45438 <45438@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2025 12:16:28 +0000 retitle 45438 27.1; please fix misleading documentation for assoc-delete-all reassign 45438 emacs submitter 45438 Hendrik Tews severity 45438 minor tag 45438 wontfix thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 25 17:13:14 2020 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Dec 2020 22:13:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58364 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ksvKk-0003yL-Al for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Dec 2020 17:13:14 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:42852) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ksvKi-0003yD-Sn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Dec 2020 17:13:13 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54688) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ksvKi-000097-OE for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Dec 2020 17:13:12 -0500 Received: from serv1.kernkonzept.com ([2a01:4f8:1c1c:b490::2]:40931 helo=mx.kernkonzept.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ksvKg-0001k9-T1 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Dec 2020 17:13:12 -0500 Received: from ip5f5a9a82.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de ([95.90.154.130] helo=cert) by mx.kernkonzept.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) id 1ksvKb-0005yZ-Tm for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Dec 2020 23:13:05 +0100 Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=cert) by cert with esmtps (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94) (envelope-from ) id 1ksvKb-000TiO-72 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Dec 2020 23:13:05 +0100 From: Hendrik Tews To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 27.1; please fix misleading documentation for assoc-delete-all Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2020 23:13:04 +0100 Message-ID: <87zh21fsb3.fsf@cert.kernkonzept.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: softfail client-ip=2a01:4f8:1c1c:b490::2; envelope-from=hendrik.tews@kernkonzept.com; helo=mx.kernkonzept.com X-Spam_score_int: -7 X-Spam_score: -0.8 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS=0.399, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) Hi, assoc-delete-all was introduced in emacs 26.2, however, describe-function says "Probably introduced at or before Emacs version 21.1.". Please fix this to report the right version number where assoc-delete-all was introduced. With this kind of misleading information, it is very difficult to write code that is backward compatible to a number of different emacs major versions. Thanks, Hendrik From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 25 17:32:19 2020 Received: (at 45438) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Dec 2020 22:32:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58405 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ksvdD-0006RS-7Z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Dec 2020 17:32:19 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:43880) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ksvdB-0006Lq-EF for 45438@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Dec 2020 17:32:17 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=5yZroJCHcqahtr/wbzoXv4Pui1Fm4rdwlm+HkE0YA5I=; b=Xfj/j9SMLJh7tdM3mLlkm0Ieeb 6yk+U0ajcznTNojpC3Ulk71MbAUB6G8yDjY1dplNr6RRWJbu/C0gi33obhZw3LVqjZh8veiGa/A9P 1J2gP12wUbZmeDdneVKbt1DEbdPAf7bzxbuNlfVbn/vek6hA4BYd9+P5LjascGvUis8k=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ksvd0-0007un-M9; Fri, 25 Dec 2020 23:32:11 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Hendrik Tews Subject: Re: bug#45438: 27.1; please fix misleading documentation for assoc-delete-all References: <87zh21fsb3.fsf@cert.kernkonzept.com> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAD1BMVEVHP0cmQI6MenXR ycn////P/ekvAAAAAWJLR0QEj2jZUQAAAAd0SU1FB+QMGRU2NWyiMu0AAAG6SURBVDjLhVSJkeMw DEOoBtapgCYb0JH993YgJTvJ7t6ck/FkBOMhJAeP4/cLb8BZt+f5HXia2SlqP4ADX8DxeEk9/+VB wM2tLvUIS/4IX0A+w1QAyQxPFc888bDj+FMEAFywnGKZc5mL2bRNCHA9cTQDrkOUhCUUOQv4KvPJ AUYJNSGAJaVIqLWzGY30AgxDRZrAexE2ICoh2g7Fs3kBoDGtJY0jVC6xLSXUGrqihlXus4Hg1IGK mu18AwmDV1RfzhK6pJI6nKJnJgGkLsZInWBJmwCWvVOVIz9MxJbVBb4YzMOqqiSrxhIYGxgcSosg BspxogXQLkZwgc4sYMxxAz5HVNs1gyblLoBdpWclGjFY9g208qQ1XIIjvYDR5ZWHVy8bmF0PV9mf T38BVQMJYNiRTXhJYdT56ZpqPc59fPi0F29MtJIuwBi0jCmIJsy9tR4Vp9Y3YWJvlM82kFjrmeMl BfabNXO+paIvhYo3OtINWDuQt2aoTu45CAy9HPID6LFrhA9A+luHdAe7ALrM2vTaE//simmNu65L 7w1Q5XtYFX8zF/QLjSvYvR88+fWi70ku4H//Ph/XX9FVbhYgJO4MAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0 ZQAyMDIwLTEyLTI1VDIxOjU0OjUzKzAwOjAwjmYTfQAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMC0x Mi0yNVQyMTo1NDo1MyswMDowMP87q8EAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: The Beatles's _1967-1970 (1)_: "Hey Jude" Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2020 23:32:05 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87zh21fsb3.fsf@cert.kernkonzept.com> (Hendrik Tews's message of "Fri, 25 Dec 2020 23:13:04 +0100") Message-ID: <87blehcyai.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Hendrik Tews writes: > assoc-delete-all was introduced in emacs 26.2, however, > describe-function says "Probably introduced at or before Emacs > version 21.1.". Please fix this to report the right version > number where [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45438 Cc: 45438@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hendrik Tews writes: > assoc-delete-all was introduced in emacs 26.2, however, > describe-function says "Probably introduced at or before Emacs > version 21.1.". Please fix this to report the right version > number where assoc-delete-all was introduced. With this kind of > misleading information, it is very difficult to write code that > is backward compatible to a number of different emacs major > versions. Indeed, but Emacs does not have a history of when functions are introduced -- we only have guesswork. Which is why it says "probably". assoc-delete-all has a convoluted history -- it was introduced in 1999, and then renamed to assq-delete-all, before being reintroduced in 2018 again. Here the guesser guesses wrong. Closing. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 25 17:32:28 2020 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Dec 2020 22:32:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58408 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ksvdM-0006YS-I3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Dec 2020 17:32:28 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:43894) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ksvdK-0006Tj-RH for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Dec 2020 17:32:27 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Hxx+gNLF04ERxruMmU9MIGBHiZve8PhjVTqCzXYBhD4=; b=JNKZmJlBCqJgYT9NJJeeptvqnk 0aS+UqBq4PDvsY04YejrDJqY7RiAd+qa3Pcu0nq69jnHwiqD790I5bRs8JnZ6nlygICtRAO3jQ2OM L6MreCRNPRS9wAlcqGxRRjFiar5dtb+omHtlB69SwHiC9sC6scBSw7XN39Dr/0BequlU=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ksvdD-0007uz-IH for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Dec 2020 23:32:21 +0100 Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2020 23:32:18 +0100 Message-Id: <87a6u1cya5.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #45438 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 45438 wontfix close 45438 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 45438 wontfix close 45438 quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Dec 26 05:28:10 2020 Received: (at 45438) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Dec 2020 10:28:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58748 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kt6ny-0004NZ-2F for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 05:28:10 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:57746) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kt6nw-0004NN-CL for 45438@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 05:28:08 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:60373) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kt6nq-0002PO-M3; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 05:28:02 -0500 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kt6no-0002VV-Ma; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 05:28:01 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87blehcyai.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Fri, 25 Dec 2020 23:32:05 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#45438: 27.1; please fix misleading documentation for assoc-delete-all References: <87zh21fsb3.fsf@cert.kernkonzept.com> <87blehcyai.fsf@gnus.org> Message-Id: Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2020 05:28:00 -0500 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45438 Cc: hendrik.tews@kernkonzept.com, 45438@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > Indeed, but Emacs does not have a history of when functions are > introduced -- we only have guesswork. Which is why it says "probably". Every new function is listed in the ChangeLog files. _We_ know when it was introduced. What this means > > assoc-delete-all was introduced in emacs 26.2, however, > > describe-function says "Probably introduced at or before Emacs > > version 21.1.". is that the data that describe-function consults does not have all the information that we have. Whether it is worth doing the work to make it better, I have no opinion. Maybe it is better to do other work instead. -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Dec 26 05:58:54 2020 Received: (at 45438) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Dec 2020 10:58:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58785 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kt7Hh-0005AD-RC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 05:58:54 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:34560) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kt7Hg-0005A0-Ab for 45438@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 05:58:52 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:60800) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kt7Ha-0004rD-8h; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 05:58:46 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:4409 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kt7HR-0003tU-Ui; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 05:58:38 -0500 Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2020 12:58:23 +0200 Message-Id: <834kk8n8a8.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: rms@gnu.org In-Reply-To: (message from Richard Stallman on Sat, 26 Dec 2020 05:28:00 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#45438: 27.1; please fix misleading documentation for assoc-delete-all References: <87zh21fsb3.fsf@cert.kernkonzept.com> <87blehcyai.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45438 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, hendrik.tews@kernkonzept.com, 45438@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Richard Stallman > Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2020 05:28:00 -0500 > Cc: hendrik.tews@kernkonzept.com, 45438@debbugs.gnu.org > > Every new function is listed in the ChangeLog files. > _We_ know when it was introduced. > > What this means > > > > assoc-delete-all was introduced in emacs 26.2, however, > > > describe-function says "Probably introduced at or before Emacs > > > version 21.1.". > > is that the data that describe-function consults does not have all the > information that we have. If the suggestion is to use ChangeLog data for this feature, then I think it won't be easy, because it isn't easy to parse the ChangeLog text for gleaning this more accurate information. For starters, we sometimes say "New function", sometimes just "New", and sometimes have lists of functions (all of which are new) with a single "New" entry. It would be better to have a DB of this data, which we would update with each major release, than to try to parse ChangeLog files, IMO. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Dec 26 14:00:00 2020 Received: (at 45438) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Dec 2020 19:00:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59913 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktEnH-000190-Qr for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 14:00:00 -0500 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:40838) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktEnF-00018V-Pe for 45438@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 13:59:58 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 0BQIwK1v032682; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 18:59:52 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=sC/9aCtjxdy4V2KWLycHWiPzu+nTo77+pZFhKau5Ep4=; b=hywmqUxD7+SVHagX6gHAwj1zFE6Zh11OkvqgyOzVkelGZJYVVAhtFEpTnozq92bLalQh MpRCNgZj+21B4wZ9fTdPJkxFnsFfEGm2qxWiFpacdt8gFmUg656oWoasdoGy7ci6wB0U wyOyeRJm4EYdVnA7DBqtRaIPnwf8rGd9AH5Mzw5X11gwWrra+fTJawQVW0s0W3kqxbAS U854KSR8NEBqxCOyUw0VyJ3M7B4ngKTjAqAqOO8ujSDA7HjiA1z11I7zwjNTyvx6eRZw Hf5FTIDFnHz1JVbd9lg8xX+Tclf0s34svC32gOV/e46NRWWQ++d2ZLt4G/S3SByyMKQj cQ== Received: from aserp3030.oracle.com (aserp3030.oracle.com [141.146.126.71]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 35nw4kgutw-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 26 Dec 2020 18:59:52 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 0BQInonE024037; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 18:59:52 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 35nu78pve3-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 26 Dec 2020 18:59:51 +0000 Received: from abhmp0003.oracle.com (abhmp0003.oracle.com [141.146.116.9]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 0BQIxm3C022043; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 18:59:51 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2020 10:59:47 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , rms@gnu.org Subject: RE: bug#45438: 27.1; please fix misleading documentation for assoc-delete-all References: <<87zh21fsb3.fsf@cert.kernkonzept.com>> <<87blehcyai.fsf@gnus.org>> <> <<834kk8n8a8.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<834kk8n8a8.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5095.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9846 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2012260128 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9846 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 clxscore=1011 mlxlogscore=999 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2012260129 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45438 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, hendrik.tews@kernkonzept.com, 45438@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > It would be better to have a DB of this data, which we would update > with each major release, than to try to parse ChangeLog files, IMO. +1. And a transparent/automatic way to feed both the DB and the ChangeLog files when making changes. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Dec 26 16:04:05 2020 Received: (at 45438) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Dec 2020 21:04:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60002 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktGjN-0003kh-Lm for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 16:04:05 -0500 Received: from serv1.kernkonzept.com ([159.69.200.6]:59629 helo=mx.kernkonzept.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktGjL-0003kM-Lc for 45438@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 16:04:04 -0500 Received: from ip5f5a9a82.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de ([95.90.154.130] helo=cert) by mx.kernkonzept.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) id 1ktGjK-0005sy-9Q; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 22:04:02 +0100 Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=cert) by cert with esmtps (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94) (envelope-from ) id 1ktGjI-0008wB-Tr; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 22:04:00 +0100 From: Hendrik Tews To: Richard Stallman , Lars Ingebrigtsen , 45438@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#45438: 27.1; please fix misleading documentation for assoc-delete-all References: <87zh21fsb3.fsf@cert.kernkonzept.com> <87blehcyai.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2020 22:04:00 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Sat, 26 Dec 2020 05:28:00 -0500") Message-ID: <87sg7sgtz3.fsf@cert.kernkonzept.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45438 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi, > Whether it is worth doing the work to make it better, I have no > opinion. Maybe it is better to do other work instead. There is a connection to bug#45437, which see. I agree that it is questionable to go back in time and annotate all functions with precise information when they had been added. However, I believe you should - change your development process such that, in the future, version information for functions and variables is recorded - not ignorantly closing issues such as 45437, when a couple of people spent several hours to debug a problem that takes you only 5 minutes to fix. Or how long will it take you to add one sentence to the documentation of make-temp-file? Or how many hours of other people do you want to waste by saving 5 minutes on your side? I now and then contribute to Proof General, which aims to support about 3 major emacs version. Please advise how one can develop backward compatible elisp code when the version in the function documentation is non-present, plain wrong or misleading. Best regards, Hendrik From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Dec 26 16:17:33 2020 Received: (at 45438) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Dec 2020 21:17:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60008 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktGwO-0004M6-TT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 16:17:33 -0500 Received: from serv1.kernkonzept.com ([159.69.200.6]:55193 helo=mx.kernkonzept.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktGwN-0004Ly-V0 for 45438@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 16:17:32 -0500 Received: from ip5f5a9a82.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de ([95.90.154.130] helo=cert) by mx.kernkonzept.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) id 1ktGwM-0005yg-Ew; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 22:17:30 +0100 Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=cert) by cert with esmtps (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94) (envelope-from ) id 1ktGwL-0009PZ-F8; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 22:17:29 +0100 From: Hendrik Tews To: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 45438@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#45438: 27.1; please fix misleading documentation for assoc-delete-all References: <87zh21fsb3.fsf@cert.kernkonzept.com> <87blehcyai.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2020 22:17:29 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87blehcyai.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Fri, 25 Dec 2020 23:32:05 +0100") Message-ID: <87o8iggtcm.fsf@cert.kernkonzept.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45438 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > assoc-delete-all has a convoluted history -- it was introduced in 1999, The function introduced in July 1999 by Dave Love compared elements with eq - it was definitely not assoc-delete-all, even though it shared the same name for a couple of month. Hendrik From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Dec 26 16:57:09 2020 Received: (at 45438) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Dec 2020 21:57:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60024 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktHYj-0005GE-MY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 16:57:09 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:54042) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktHYh-0005G0-Tu for 45438@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 16:57:08 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=uT74cooEkBqJDOvYLwn3+3f3C6ik0NtuSLOAqWgYWhs=; b=ZRDSI8lE7NUuH16raxDMwJu/7J b1FxmCVgoEhHTarV6lI6TduhOSD/ksWZYLilZT75o8qeStZRpUDaPfSYPhZUoeybYtnVdIaLLOlE1 UGZqyDDB1Z0yfmPPcBPtH2Q1P87jMUIQ1WJiThUWdIXWNoyYr+sEQym5wzI/M55tp+KM=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ktHYW-0000KM-Kg; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 22:57:01 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#45438: 27.1; please fix misleading documentation for assoc-delete-all References: <87zh21fsb3.fsf@cert.kernkonzept.com> <87blehcyai.fsf@gnus.org> <834kk8n8a8.fsf@gnu.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAALVBMVEUGAwQ1TFgiHycT DhU0JjpRZ2hVeYNri42grY6Mk2SUVx1ziXPByJ4oUIv///+ana8kAAAAAWJLR0QOb70wTwAAAAd0 SU1FB+QMGhU1KDY8ohkAAADgSURBVDjLY2AYBfQBjAo4JBQFsIszC4rgMCk0DLtZ5mlpAVglwsvL SrCJs7SXl5cZYIozuXcAZWYtQpNidgyM6GjfGpoYPWsVkhyzY6gQw4yO7q2hgUDmzlWrnCByiqFC BgysJzo6doeGKjAw696tnrlqFQODiqgISF6j4wxIC8jzzIp303cyiIpAfBXRceYEUCIFYrbKXQao Z5lmdpw5AzILajMzzH7W3VAJ9ID0hkkko/lje0XPmTMn2rellaL5OzQ0NHpraKigIMwSogEzqRro BZhJlsAABLxGvEGUAwADOkOmFZcKowAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpjcmVhdGUAMjAyMC0xMi0yNlQyMTo1 Mzo0MCswMDowMLgwpvUAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5ADIwMjAtMTItMjZUMjE6NTM6NDArMDA6 MDDJbR5JAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Pink Floyd's _The Dark Side Of The Moon_: "Money" Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2020 22:56:55 +0100 In-Reply-To: <834kk8n8a8.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 26 Dec 2020 12:58:23 +0200") Message-ID: <871rfcb594.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: > It would be better to have a DB of this data, which we would update > with each major release, than to try to parse ChangeLog files, IMO. A database would be nice, but I'm against adding yet more formalism in this area -- it's already a pain getting people to adhere to our current conventions. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45438 Cc: hendrik.tews@kernkonzept.com, rms@gnu.org, 45438@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: > It would be better to have a DB of this data, which we would update > with each major release, than to try to parse ChangeLog files, IMO. A database would be nice, but I'm against adding yet more formalism in this area -- it's already a pain getting people to adhere to our current conventions. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Dec 27 00:38:44 2020 Received: (at 45438) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Dec 2020 05:38:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60185 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktOlP-0003Tv-NV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Dec 2020 00:38:43 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35196) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktOlN-0003Ti-W9 for 45438@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Dec 2020 00:38:42 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:45399) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ktOlI-0003Pg-0C; Sun, 27 Dec 2020 00:38:36 -0500 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ktOlC-0007BQ-HE; Sun, 27 Dec 2020 00:38:30 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <834kk8n8a8.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Sat, 26 Dec 2020 12:58:23 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#45438: 27.1; please fix misleading documentation for assoc-delete-all References: <87zh21fsb3.fsf@cert.kernkonzept.com> <87blehcyai.fsf@gnus.org> <834kk8n8a8.fsf@gnu.org> Message-Id: Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2020 00:38:30 -0500 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45438 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, hendrik.tews@kernkonzept.com, 45438@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > is that the data that describe-function consults does not have all the > > information that we have. > If the suggestion is to use ChangeLog data for this feature, then I > think it won't be easy, because it isn't easy to parse the ChangeLog > text for gleaning this more accurate information. I'm not suggesting we do anything about this problem. Do you see any reason to? -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Dec 27 12:47:44 2020 Received: (at 45438) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Dec 2020 17:47:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33477 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kta8u-0007Qg-IR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Dec 2020 12:47:44 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:59102) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kta8s-0007QS-Tg for 45438@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Dec 2020 12:47:43 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:52391) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kta8m-0000xE-TT; Sun, 27 Dec 2020 12:47:36 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:3946 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kta8U-00053n-4t; Sun, 27 Dec 2020 12:47:19 -0500 Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2020 19:47:06 +0200 Message-Id: <83k0t3kup1.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: rms@gnu.org In-Reply-To: (message from Richard Stallman on Sun, 27 Dec 2020 00:38:30 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#45438: 27.1; please fix misleading documentation for assoc-delete-all References: <87zh21fsb3.fsf@cert.kernkonzept.com> <87blehcyai.fsf@gnus.org> <834kk8n8a8.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45438 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, hendrik.tews@kernkonzept.com, 45438@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Richard Stallman > Cc: larsi@gnus.org, hendrik.tews@kernkonzept.com, > 45438@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2020 00:38:30 -0500 > > > If the suggestion is to use ChangeLog data for this feature, then I > > think it won't be easy, because it isn't easy to parse the ChangeLog > > text for gleaning this more accurate information. > > I'm not suggesting we do anything about this problem. Do you see > any reason to? We were asked to consider doing that by 2 different people. I agree that the problem is not an urgent one nor a grave one, but if someone wants to work on making that part of documentation more accurate, I think gleaning the info from ChangeLog is not the best approach. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 28 00:25:58 2020 Received: (at 45438) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Dec 2020 05:25:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34077 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktl2b-0005Rg-NL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 00:25:57 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:41352) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktl2Z-0005RR-Ny for 45438@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 00:25:56 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:34995) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ktl2T-0002wl-PE; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 00:25:50 -0500 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ktl2R-0008Qr-Gh; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 00:25:47 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <83k0t3kup1.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Sun, 27 Dec 2020 19:47:06 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#45438: 27.1; please fix misleading documentation for assoc-delete-all References: <87zh21fsb3.fsf@cert.kernkonzept.com> <87blehcyai.fsf@gnus.org> <834kk8n8a8.fsf@gnu.org> <83k0t3kup1.fsf@gnu.org> Message-Id: Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2020 00:25:47 -0500 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45438 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, hendrik.tews@kernkonzept.com, 45438@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > but if someone > wants to work on making that part of documentation more accurate, I > think gleaning the info from ChangeLog is not the best approach. I agree. I never meant to imply that we should try to scrape ChangeLog for this -- though it might give correct results in most cases. -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Sat Sep 20 05:16:28 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2021 12:24:04 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator