From unknown Wed Jun 18 22:58:56 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#45428 <45428@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#45428 <45428@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 27.1; (quote (quote (quote ...))) unexpectedly works as anonymous face Reply-To: bug#45428 <45428@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2025 05:58:56 +0000 retitle 45428 27.1; (quote (quote (quote ...))) unexpectedly works as anony= mous face reassign 45428 emacs submitter 45428 Markus Triska severity 45428 minor tag 45428 wontfix thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 25 07:40:14 2020 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Dec 2020 12:40:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56922 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ksmOD-0002k5-J7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Dec 2020 07:40:13 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:41934) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ksmOB-0002jx-FL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Dec 2020 07:40:11 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38728) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ksmOB-0002ll-49 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Dec 2020 07:40:11 -0500 Received: from [78.47.144.35] (port=45292 helo=metalevel.at) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ksmO9-0003YZ-Cm for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Dec 2020 07:40:10 -0500 Received: from mt-mbpro.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by metalevel.at (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05FCA9E759 for ; Fri, 25 Dec 2020 13:34:23 +0100 (CET) Received: by mt-mbpro.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id B6A1B1276E8A; Fri, 25 Dec 2020 13:34:21 +0100 (CET) From: Markus Triska To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 27.1; (quote (quote (quote ...))) unexpectedly works as anonymous face Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2020 13:34:21 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 78.47.144.35 (failed) Received-SPF: none client-ip=78.47.144.35; envelope-from=triska@metalevel.at; helo=metalevel.at X-Spam_score_int: -10 X-Spam_score: -1.1 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) In 39.12 Faces, the Emacs Lisp documentation states: One way to represent a face is as a property list of attributes, like =E2=80=98(:foreground "red" :weight bold)=E2=80=99. Such a list is= called an =E2=80=9Canonymous face=E2=80=9D. And according to 5.9 Property Lists, a property list "is a list of paired elements.". Specifying the anonymous face (:height 10.0), i.e., a property list, works exactly as intended and documented when we invoke Emacs with: $ emacs -Q --eval '(font-lock-mode 0)' \ --eval "(insert (propertize \ \"hello\" \ 'face (quote (:height 10.0))))" Writing (quote (:height 10.0)) is equal to writing '(:height 10.0): (equal (quote (:height 10.0)) '(:height 10.0)) =3D=3D> t However, using multiple nested (quote ...) forms is not equivalent to using a single quote in general: (equal (quote (quote (:height 10.0))) '(:height 10.0)) =3D=3D> nil Yet, wrapping the face within multiple nested (quote ...) forms unexpectedly yields the same visual result as using a single quote form, namely (again) an enlarged "hello": $ emacs -Q --eval '(font-lock-mode 0)' \ --eval "(insert (propertize \ \"hello\" \ 'face (quote (quote '(:height 10.0)))))" In this case, the anonymous face is not specified as a property list, but as a symbolic expression of the form (quote (quote (quote ...))), and still works. Is this the intended result, and can we rely on it? If so, could you please document it? Issue #35005 is related to this. Thank you a lot! Markus In GNU Emacs 27.1 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin15.3.0, X toolkit, Xaw scrol= l bars) of 2020-12-12 built on mac Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11502000 System Description: Mac OS X 10.11.3 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Dec 26 17:19:21 2020 Received: (at 45428) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Dec 2020 22:19:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60067 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktHuC-0007vw-RT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 17:19:21 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:54426) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktHuA-0007vk-SY for 45428@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 17:19:19 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=01mUoyP8seYB3S/fIxEnScZ0/rRNIK30NM0u7azcsUk=; b=GiRciUz2Uu9ouTMeCPPuK7E88g jb+ed9okk46ifHgm7KCBOnWn2REtRimV+VElrLWQ1EDGFwJsqcPhzbORNRK8ZHxRMq4ZfR7SQu7qU Br16r1Zi1Dxsu2DywRaRvK+lpDyrmMB1mPqZJcVgkgqCmVgpBdepImuu5dUzy6zYv148=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ktHu2-0000YN-N8; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 23:19:13 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Markus Triska Subject: Re: bug#45428: 27.1; (quote (quote (quote ...))) unexpectedly works as anonymous face References: X-Now-Playing: Pink Floyd's _The Dark Side Of The Moon_: "Eclipse" Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2020 23:19:09 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Markus Triska's message of "Fri, 25 Dec 2020 13:34:21 +0100") Message-ID: <87eejc9pnm.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Markus Triska writes: > In this case, the anonymous face is not specified as a property list, > but as a symbolic expression of the form (quote (quote (quote ...))), > and still works. Is this the intended result, and can [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45428 Cc: 45428@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Markus Triska writes: > In this case, the anonymous face is not specified as a property list, > but as a symbolic expression of the form (quote (quote (quote ...))), > and still works. Is this the intended result, and can we rely on it? If > so, could you please document it? I think it's just that Emacs is liberal in what it receives, and tries to muddle through. For instance, the following works fine: (insert (propertize "hello" 'face (list (list (list :height 10.0))))) But this isn't something we'd want to document -- we document the recommended forms to use, even if Emacs is more liberal in what it accepts, sometimes. Anybody else got an opinion here? -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Dec 26 23:16:34 2020 Received: (at 45428) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Dec 2020 04:16:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60162 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktNTu-0001Xq-3I for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 23:16:34 -0500 Received: from mail-pl1-f172.google.com ([209.85.214.172]:39648) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktNTs-0001Xc-4K for 45428@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 23:16:32 -0500 Received: by mail-pl1-f172.google.com with SMTP id x18so4040039pln.6 for <45428@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 20:16:32 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=icUjUkTfSBHYlyD4I08RyYFKbwuhPH/9gmrP2Y+LtXI=; b=dauykKdsDoCFgtL1PaDFkuDP1Cs5iMMrrRwrsB4Pfmi9u6k7Suysxu/AP1TN8cWNj+ w6dAe+2MZXEkGoHtg5Rtla63qKe0FZF7Bm9AHsB944m6o2Lu1afjgOHd44zl+VFpuqGt MoFXtkblqDWQKxqpuCrPwS+njnMcOQOk4zQFtLB+EXadx78rUOgfEk9KExRJr3/UbqD8 G3AClaVHbNNliax5s60/QNhZoEGrbqTGUmFeMKyxwIYV1h2DOGumZp2LAygZzaalewte zi64V1S6BiSmtuCzCO69ztgB8lKfMm1iaRf0K1qbBUcflEp0uEdcSnD6QNSwt+XcsVf8 Trsg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530pTTUVUoUiIoPoN+1oOtSF59dut8dZd0nhcfxncJ2JoVq3Xynd ERd0zkYwiVgm7S43AesekYpe5eEXsCVaKrAEmSU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzeJzs3tBwrFh5C7YaAtehmh7Lbp8H0IZFQXJaxPL6XzieSUnTK8sGzW4D4z9JRaoZatQxhLXxOCBOwy9T/QCE= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:d145:: with SMTP id t5mr15256557pjw.104.1609042586211; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 20:16:26 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87eejc9pnm.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: <87eejc9pnm.fsf@gnus.org> From: Stefan Kangas Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2020 05:16:15 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#45428: 27.1; (quote (quote (quote ...))) unexpectedly works as anonymous face To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c7992d05b76a6ba5" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45428 Cc: 45428@debbugs.gnu.org, Markus Triska X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) --000000000000c7992d05b76a6ba5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" (Sorry if formatting is messed up as I'm replying from my phone.) I think it makes sense to be forgiving here as this is something users will commonly configure. As long as it doesn't give inconsistent results (which doesn't seem to be the case) it is probably better to be liberal in what we accept. Also, if we change it now, user configurations will break without AFAICT a strong reason. So I'd tend to say keep what we have now. IMO, we should still not document this just in case we find a strong reason to change it later. But we could perhaps add a unit test for this with a comment explaining why we try to accept this for the time being. Or we just do nothing and close the bug as wontfix. Just my two cents. --000000000000c7992d05b76a6ba5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
(Sorry if formatting is messed up as I'm replying fro= m my phone.)

I think it makes = sense to be forgiving here as this is something users will commonly configu= re. As long as it doesn't give inconsistent results (which doesn't = seem to be the case) it is probably better to be liberal in what we accept.= Also, if we change it now, user configurations will break without AFAICT a= strong reason. So I'd tend to say keep what we have now.

IMO, we should still not document thi= s just in case we find a strong reason to change it later. But we could per= haps add a unit test for this with a comment explaining why we try to accep= t this for the time being. Or we just do nothing and close the bug as wontf= ix.

Just my two cents.
--000000000000c7992d05b76a6ba5-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Dec 26 23:47:17 2020 Received: (at 45428) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Dec 2020 04:47:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60172 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktNxd-0002Fk-7z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 23:47:17 -0500 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:50094) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktNxb-0002FV-L7 for 45428@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 23:47:16 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 0BR4l80D187997; Sun, 27 Dec 2020 04:47:08 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=Mmh6aJqFfzXwC7jx16vTIXCvRirTaGDMl4LpxZ4UBeQ=; b=gOxmz8+16SXueMsYvy6ntf7f44dW0+yAJzLbpmd5jo6Uq5EYlBZl13rCxxSH2J9FE+tI QW/9H1Rld7/Wh+FOFLbzPHAaM3Zmgv1bdPrQzMQR8VfhLl3Z7SADANKP0sNs4GZ44XOy 2OGNh06zqIlo8vyCmZdAnenVKpOw3RAZhHUIZKIJR0W3KNIGhQupnNM+Snv6QaJwt5RO l7157Rd2dMMONV/+VXwaOwxOv0m9/6DZKwTb7xf1U1wmVRvylBIyoxJIwM/pYycoii5C H5rByXsP/2WV3i5nG0kQ+CLI7JPWY4BBTj2ePl4oy1lXCdei5nenSTs3CPuRkp6J5SZs tw== Received: from aserp3020.oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [141.146.126.70]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 35phm182ms-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 Dec 2020 04:47:08 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 0BR4kCbx130550; Sun, 27 Dec 2020 04:47:08 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 35pf2v5mh6-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 27 Dec 2020 04:47:08 +0000 Received: from abhmp0016.oracle.com (abhmp0016.oracle.com [141.146.116.22]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 0BR4l27f013733; Sun, 27 Dec 2020 04:47:03 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <5e99c39b-b67b-4184-a890-2cae38fb40de@default> Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2020 20:47:01 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Stefan Kangas , Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: RE: bug#45428: 27.1; (quote (quote (quote ...))) unexpectedly works as anonymous face References: <87eejc9pnm.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5095.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9846 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 mlxscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2012270029 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9846 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 impostorscore=0 phishscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2012270029 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45428 Cc: 45428@debbugs.gnu.org, Markus Triska X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > I think it makes sense to be forgiving here as this is something users wi= ll commonly configure. As long as it doesn't give inconsistent results (whi= ch doesn't seem to be the case) it is probably better to be liberal in what= we accept. Also, if we change it now, user configurations will break witho= ut AFAICT a strong reason. So I'd tend to say keep what we have now. > IMO, we should still not document this just in case we find a strong reas= on to change it later. But we could perhaps add a unit test for this with a= comment explaining why we try to accept this for the time being. Or we jus= t do nothing and close the bug as wontfix. > Just my two cents. My 2c differ. To me this is just a bug, and should be fixed. The behavior should follow the doc. More importantly, it should follow the general behavior of Lisp evaluation. Why would we treat '''foo, '''''foo, etc. the same as 'foo? The answer is that we wouldn't, generally, and we don't. I see no advantage whatsoever in "being forgiving" here - what's that about? This is a bad precedent, and I don't see any particular reason for it here. By "particular", I mean what's special about such "forgiveness" in the case of anonymous face sexps? Why create a special case? And what's the advantage for users? The argument that this behavior is longstanding is a stronger argument (because it's stronger than zero), but my 2c says it's not particularly strong here. Maybe there's a good argument for this odd treatment. I haven't see one so far. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Dec 27 03:38:35 2020 Received: (at 45428) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Dec 2020 08:38:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60293 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktRZT-0003rO-JG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Dec 2020 03:38:35 -0500 Received: from [78.47.144.35] (port=52752 helo=metalevel.at) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktRZR-0003rF-QK for 45428@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Dec 2020 03:38:34 -0500 Received: by metalevel.at (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7E6519F566; Sun, 27 Dec 2020 09:38:32 +0100 (CET) From: Markus Triska To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#45428: 27.1; (quote (quote (quote ...))) unexpectedly works as anonymous face References: <87eejc9pnm.fsf@gnus.org> <5e99c39b-b67b-4184-a890-2cae38fb40de@default> Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2020 09:38:32 +0100 In-Reply-To: <5e99c39b-b67b-4184-a890-2cae38fb40de@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 26 Dec 2020 20:47:01 -0800 (PST)") Message-ID: <87a6tzk5iv.fsf@metalevel.at> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 1.3 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Drew Adams writes: > My 2c differ. To me this is just a bug, and should be > fixed. The behavior should follow the doc. More > importantly, it should follow the general behavior of > Lisp evaluation. Why would we treat [...] Content analysis details: (1.3 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 SPF_NONE SPF: sender does not publish an SPF Record 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 1.3 RDNS_NONE Delivered to internal network by a host with no rDNS X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45428 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Stefan Kangas , 45428@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) Drew Adams writes: > My 2c differ. To me this is just a bug, and should be > fixed. The behavior should follow the doc. More > importantly, it should follow the general behavior of > Lisp evaluation. Why would we treat '''foo, '''''foo, > etc. the same as 'foo? The answer is that we wouldn't, > generally, and we don't. I agree with this. Is there any other place in Emacs where '''X is treated the same as 'X? As far as I can tell, this seems quite specific to faces. How is this happening? Is there special logic in Emacs that enables this, and is it used for other parts too? In my own configuration and Emacs Lisp programs, I would strongly prefer to rely only on documented features of Emacs, and I would like Emacs to at least warn me if my code starts to rely on features that are not officially supported and hence may change more readily in the future. All the best, Markus From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Dec 27 12:53:07 2020 Received: (at 45428) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Dec 2020 17:53:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33481 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktaE7-0007YE-6V for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Dec 2020 12:53:07 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:60006) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktaE5-0007Xl-Ga for 45428@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Dec 2020 12:53:06 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:52436) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ktaDz-0001am-Df; Sun, 27 Dec 2020 12:52:59 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:4289 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ktaDy-0005U2-Rl; Sun, 27 Dec 2020 12:52:59 -0500 Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2020 19:52:47 +0200 Message-Id: <83h7o7kufk.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Markus Triska In-Reply-To: <87a6tzk5iv.fsf@metalevel.at> (message from Markus Triska on Sun, 27 Dec 2020 09:38:32 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#45428: 27.1; (quote (quote (quote ...))) unexpectedly works as anonymous face References: <87eejc9pnm.fsf@gnus.org> <5e99c39b-b67b-4184-a890-2cae38fb40de@default> <87a6tzk5iv.fsf@metalevel.at> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45428 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, 45428@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Markus Triska > Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2020 09:38:32 +0100 > Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Stefan Kangas , > 45428@debbugs.gnu.org > > In my own configuration and Emacs Lisp programs, I would strongly prefer > to rely only on documented features of Emacs, and I would like Emacs to > at least warn me if my code starts to rely on features that are not > officially supported and hence may change more readily in the future. You should indeed rely on documented behavior. But that doesn't mean Emacs cannot have undocumented behavior, especially when it is a side effect of the specific implementation of some documented feature. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Dec 27 14:06:23 2020 Received: (at 45428) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Dec 2020 19:06:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33524 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktbN1-0000uE-12 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Dec 2020 14:06:23 -0500 Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:54044) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktbMz-0000u2-Nl for 45428@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Dec 2020 14:06:22 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 0BRJ4urE160970; Sun, 27 Dec 2020 19:06:15 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=EitF53jgg6UMqlIBz8t3VCq8KKtbBeArsP/usD7bHJk=; b=xVuuppliXw7hQzeKBZHv/ODJlo6/TvlKeK5wuL15f8crDqowcGlnC6xRSxNrdbp6k8Ly uVLClJ+FSnu7a+wAjQnsDuBKHpY87QZuiSJSXH0y2uln1S3SR1TbLeILbxgYc8D7jWV4 Lt0ZahjDRtoPQKbbotdRTppGrlYJBHn2PNO0ClNhoN22Lh9/CrheXAIuAikU4tVa7/bO YUu/5JY8e1flslx4WymCqJlcTBcGjIJtznR9cLHOGdyhVtFR8dfxTdXIjWDxo64qnLDF OqgCzNR8bkucq5KX9gtlcvsgHJADqDNklA3w9kP5gl4+cDacAd4kgdpCc+R71rIklgXK mQ== Received: from aserp3020.oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [141.146.126.70]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 35nvkqj2x8-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 Dec 2020 19:06:15 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 0BRJ6EEb132004; Sun, 27 Dec 2020 19:06:14 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 35pf2vkxme-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 27 Dec 2020 19:06:14 +0000 Received: from abhmp0016.oracle.com (abhmp0016.oracle.com [141.146.116.22]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 0BRJ64dw003849; Sun, 27 Dec 2020 19:06:05 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <975c150b-99aa-4143-b057-8b5ec7caec19@default> Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2020 11:06:03 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Markus Triska Subject: RE: bug#45428: 27.1; (quote (quote (quote ...))) unexpectedly works as anonymous face References: <> <<87eejc9pnm.fsf@gnus.org>> <> <<5e99c39b-b67b-4184-a890-2cae38fb40de@default>> <<87a6tzk5iv.fsf@metalevel.at>> <<83h7o7kufk.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83h7o7kufk.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5095.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9847 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 mlxscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2012270120 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9847 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 impostorscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 mlxscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2012270120 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45428 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, 45428@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > In my own configuration and Emacs Lisp programs, I would strongly prefe= r > > to rely only on documented features of Emacs, and I would like Emacs to > > at least warn me if my code starts to rely on features that are not > > officially supported and hence may change more readily in the future. >=20 > You should indeed rely on documented behavior. But that doesn't mean > Emacs cannot have undocumented behavior, especially when it is a side > effect of the specific implementation of some documented feature. Agreed. But what is the specific need for this particular undocumented behavior? That's the question relevant for this bug, I think. Does anyone even know why this undocumented, unlispy, and bizarre exception was made here? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Dec 27 14:18:37 2020 Received: (at 45428) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Dec 2020 19:18:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33537 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktbYr-0001CP-Ee for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Dec 2020 14:18:37 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:44508) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktbYp-0001CC-D3 for 45428@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Dec 2020 14:18:36 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:53402) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ktbYh-0004lz-At; Sun, 27 Dec 2020 14:18:27 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:1847 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ktbYg-0005KM-Ou; Sun, 27 Dec 2020 14:18:27 -0500 Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2020 21:18:12 +0200 Message-Id: <838s9jkqh7.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: <975c150b-99aa-4143-b057-8b5ec7caec19@default> (message from Drew Adams on Sun, 27 Dec 2020 11:06:03 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: bug#45428: 27.1; (quote (quote (quote ...))) unexpectedly works as anonymous face References: <> <<87eejc9pnm.fsf@gnus.org>> <> <<5e99c39b-b67b-4184-a890-2cae38fb40de@default>> <<87a6tzk5iv.fsf@metalevel.at>> <<83h7o7kufk.fsf@gnu.org>> <975c150b-99aa-4143-b057-8b5ec7caec19@default> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45428 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, triska@metalevel.at, drew.adams@oracle.com, 45428@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2020 11:06:03 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: drew.adams@oracle.com, larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, > 45428@debbugs.gnu.org > > > You should indeed rely on documented behavior. But that doesn't mean > > Emacs cannot have undocumented behavior, especially when it is a side > > effect of the specific implementation of some documented feature. > > Agreed. But what is the specific need for this > particular undocumented behavior? Who said there's a need? AFAIU, it's just an implementation artifact. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Dec 27 14:58:55 2020 Received: (at 45428) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Dec 2020 19:58:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33601 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktcBq-0002By-NG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Dec 2020 14:58:54 -0500 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:47462) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktcBp-0002Bl-H5 for 45428@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Dec 2020 14:58:53 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 0BRJwkMl067204; Sun, 27 Dec 2020 19:58:46 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=yCA3ld4AJwTn/va66jjF19zaVYkIrPG7CQDnvlqywo4=; b=nIXKB5xrW+fAOyhaofTYkS00knJ6in05zEfaajW5r7fCTnlQeF5Wt/FabbQxu9ekuZJO mF5k5oSv/XZR4ivAwwAVBqs4S32nLmr56RhPqGZMaxEbAyZMoMUzj1vilZjp5UPdxzme srX4Qr9s9MaZ4TmFvrA9LiQQygox20k5/gMTJ6PeY4izrqIdu4f4TvwMJFUqFkuMjFHK 7C6A2SaFPF4Z288RLXDBY0b3ju7pt6J8WFgb6TlwubhB2DwIZBA8cy59WlyFO8gbemCT B/y1+WEwMKgdCAStLy7VFNqUvP4D6JRUI5vEcnDPFf6+B6tTZe3cB6V4WxTAse3OnpUY gw== Received: from aserp3020.oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [141.146.126.70]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 35phm18yv2-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 Dec 2020 19:58:46 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 0BRJoGmJ194023; Sun, 27 Dec 2020 19:56:46 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 35pf2vmht6-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 27 Dec 2020 19:56:46 +0000 Received: from abhmp0016.oracle.com (abhmp0016.oracle.com [141.146.116.22]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 0BRJueTE006005; Sun, 27 Dec 2020 19:56:40 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2020 11:56:39 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Subject: RE: bug#45428: 27.1; (quote (quote (quote ...))) unexpectedly works as anonymous face References: <<>> <<<87eejc9pnm.fsf@gnus.org>>> <<>> <<<5e99c39b-b67b-4184-a890-2cae38fb40de@default>>> <<<87a6tzk5iv.fsf@metalevel.at>>> <<<83h7o7kufk.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<975c150b-99aa-4143-b057-8b5ec7caec19@default>> <<838s9jkqh7.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<838s9jkqh7.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5095.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9847 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 mlxscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2012270126 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9847 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 impostorscore=0 phishscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2012270127 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45428 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, triska@metalevel.at, drew.adams@oracle.com, 45428@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > > You should indeed rely on documented behavior. But that doesn't mean > > > Emacs cannot have undocumented behavior, especially when it is a side > > > effect of the specific implementation of some documented feature. > > > > Agreed. But what is the specific need for this > > particular undocumented behavior? >=20 > Who said there's a need? AFAIU, it's just an implementation artifact. What do you mean by that? Isn't everything that's implemented an implementation artifact, including bugs? Do we have any idea why this odd behavior was implemented? Or are you suggesting that the behavior was an accident? Is that what you meant by "artifact" here? If so, what would be the argument for not fixing it, if it was never intended in the first place and it flies in the face of Lisp's general behavior? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 28 08:43:34 2020 Received: (at 45428) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Dec 2020 13:43:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34635 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktsoA-0005JO-3M for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 08:43:34 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:37274) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktso7-0005JA-Eh for 45428@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 08:43:32 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:40427) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ktso1-0005tn-2h; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 08:43:25 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:1682 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ktsnz-0005JM-3W; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 08:43:23 -0500 Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2020 15:43:12 +0200 Message-Id: <835z4mkpvz.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Sun, 27 Dec 2020 11:56:39 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: bug#45428: 27.1; (quote (quote (quote ...))) unexpectedly works as anonymous face References: <<>> <<<87eejc9pnm.fsf@gnus.org>>> <<>> <<<5e99c39b-b67b-4184-a890-2cae38fb40de@default>>> <<<87a6tzk5iv.fsf@metalevel.at>>> <<<83h7o7kufk.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<975c150b-99aa-4143-b057-8b5ec7caec19@default>> <<838s9jkqh7.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45428 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, triska@metalevel.at, drew.adams@oracle.com, 45428@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2020 11:56:39 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: triska@metalevel.at, drew.adams@oracle.com, larsi@gnus.org, > stefan@marxist.se, 45428@debbugs.gnu.org > > Or are you suggesting that the behavior was an accident? Yes! > what would be the argument for not fixing it That no one submitted a patch to reimplement that code in a way that won't allow such constructs. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 28 12:45:35 2020 Received: (at 45428) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Dec 2020 17:45:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36778 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktwaN-0007te-A4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 12:45:35 -0500 Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:44586) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktwaL-0007tP-M2 for 45428@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 12:45:34 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 0BSHYxto135920; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 17:45:27 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=POpleYvWGhqI8tDbsl/onWBtnqmNR29/C3B0uDcqB58=; b=Cas2DMW/a/LbQjFmEopuM+xieQbXyXJ0rd78zwTQP9KGNtGSxSDAu1Ba2lnDz62DYgPJ EebFeeGpgenHOlPGuNynVAONWumABiI5bfUzQuwO12jb45W8Zmso5lcNK4km4c0UfQ92 yR2sD5REpsMDOyp+UPoVFCn5d449FDLZ25OFPILyYSovV1eV5cHyKhgIxhFVr+ziUbaa 5jkt1h+UlENRfGL0gwPfm+1LLwgEpcqou2yNIdDs3GbctM09AMn+RS3XVRAuDrTw6t80 eEJBJ5RfvXuaLNlZLF7hj6SXzSahTnYVPYhDHMUxwbRIFk08C7YrNTv2lmXpAzg+7aCS Zg== Received: from userp3020.oracle.com (userp3020.oracle.com [156.151.31.79]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 35nvkqm9pb-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Dec 2020 17:45:26 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 0BSHZu4S191571; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 17:45:26 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 35pexqfbvu-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 28 Dec 2020 17:45:26 +0000 Received: from abhmp0016.oracle.com (abhmp0016.oracle.com [141.146.116.22]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 0BSHjLY3025848; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 17:45:23 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <5dfff982-e496-46fe-9efd-1e0edd4f0be8@default> Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2020 09:45:20 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Subject: RE: bug#45428: 27.1; (quote (quote (quote ...))) unexpectedly works as anonymous face References: <<<>>> <<<<87eejc9pnm.fsf@gnus.org>>>> <<<>>> <<<<5e99c39b-b67b-4184-a890-2cae38fb40de@default>>>> <<<<87a6tzk5iv.fsf@metalevel.at>>>> <<<<83h7o7kufk.fsf@gnu.org>>>> <<<975c150b-99aa-4143-b057-8b5ec7caec19@default>>> <<<838s9jkqh7.fsf@gnu.org>>> <> <<835z4mkpvz.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<835z4mkpvz.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5095.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9848 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 bulkscore=0 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2012280111 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9848 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 impostorscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 mlxscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2012280111 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45428 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, triska@metalevel.at, drew.adams@oracle.com, 45428@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > Or are you suggesting that the behavior was an accident? >=20 > Yes! Thanks; that wasn't clear to me. > > what would be the argument for not fixing it >=20 > That no one submitted a patch to reimplement that code in a way that > won't allow such constructs. Shouldn't that just mean that the bug remains open? Not having a fix submitted yet doesn't seem like a good argument for deciding not to fix something. Or did you perhaps mean that it's not an argument for not fixing it, but it's (just) an explanation for why it's not being fixed now? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 28 12:49:57 2020 Received: (at 45428) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Dec 2020 17:49:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36782 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktwea-000819-V0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 12:49:57 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:60316) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktweX-00080u-5b for 45428@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 12:49:54 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:44689) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ktweR-0003WI-2L; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 12:49:47 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:1154 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ktweQ-000123-H9; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 12:49:46 -0500 Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2020 19:49:35 +0200 Message-Id: <83o8idkehc.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: <5dfff982-e496-46fe-9efd-1e0edd4f0be8@default> (message from Drew Adams on Mon, 28 Dec 2020 09:45:20 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: bug#45428: 27.1; (quote (quote (quote ...))) unexpectedly works as anonymous face References: <<<>>> <<<<87eejc9pnm.fsf@gnus.org>>>> <<<>>> <<<<5e99c39b-b67b-4184-a890-2cae38fb40de@default>>>> <<<<87a6tzk5iv.fsf@metalevel.at>>>> <<<<83h7o7kufk.fsf@gnu.org>>>> <<<975c150b-99aa-4143-b057-8b5ec7caec19@default>>> <<<838s9jkqh7.fsf@gnu.org>>> <> <<835z4mkpvz.fsf@gnu.org>> <5dfff982-e496-46fe-9efd-1e0edd4f0be8@default> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45428 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, triska@metalevel.at, drew.adams@oracle.com, 45428@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2020 09:45:20 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: triska@metalevel.at, drew.adams@oracle.com, larsi@gnus.org, > stefan@marxist.se, 45428@debbugs.gnu.org > > Shouldn't that just mean that the bug remains open? I'm not sure I agree that there is a bug. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 28 13:23:57 2020 Received: (at 45428) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Dec 2020 18:23:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36866 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktxBV-0000To-Ex for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 13:23:57 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39162) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktxBS-0000TZ-TO for 45428@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 13:23:56 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:45282) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ktxBM-0000UG-Gr; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 13:23:48 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:3234 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ktxBL-0002XI-VK; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 13:23:48 -0500 Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2020 20:23:39 +0200 Message-Id: <83mtxxkcwk.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: drew.adams@oracle.com In-Reply-To: <83o8idkehc.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Mon, 28 Dec 2020 19:49:35 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#45428: 27.1; (quote (quote (quote ...))) unexpectedly works as anonymous face References: <<<>>> <<<<87eejc9pnm.fsf@gnus.org>>>> <<<>>> <<<<5e99c39b-b67b-4184-a890-2cae38fb40de@default>>>> <<<<87a6tzk5iv.fsf@metalevel.at>>>> <<<<83h7o7kufk.fsf@gnu.org>>>> <<<975c150b-99aa-4143-b057-8b5ec7caec19@default>>> <<<838s9jkqh7.fsf@gnu.org>>> <> <<835z4mkpvz.fsf@gnu.org>> <5dfff982-e496-46fe-9efd-1e0edd4f0be8@default> <83o8idkehc.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45428 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, triska@metalevel.at, 45428@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2020 19:49:35 +0200 > From: Eli Zaretskii > Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, triska@metalevel.at, > 45428@debbugs.gnu.org > > > Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2020 09:45:20 -0800 (PST) > > From: Drew Adams > > Cc: triska@metalevel.at, drew.adams@oracle.com, larsi@gnus.org, > > stefan@marxist.se, 45428@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > Shouldn't that just mean that the bug remains open? > > I'm not sure I agree that there is a bug. Or maybe I should turn the table and ask: what bug do you see with this recipe, and what would you like to see instead? To be specific, here's the recipe: emacs -Q M-x font-lock-mode RET M-: (insert (propertize "hello" 'face (quote (quote '(:height 10.0))))) RET From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 28 13:55:12 2020 Received: (at 45428) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Dec 2020 18:55:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36908 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktxfj-0001Gp-OG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 13:55:12 -0500 Received: from aserp2130.oracle.com ([141.146.126.79]:43440) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktxfg-0001GX-LS for 45428@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 13:55:10 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 0BSIdHws044321; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 18:55:02 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=e6V6sl3RldzdmNf0AmQVNYk/qPRyZHLqOwpM6gbX3e8=; b=H8kB472NGN/rHvkhHoDiK4O7OdMLN8mVLMURpRzeJmliv0JFK0rTQbA5gYsbOoOWL21E 8KVaRiQvTTqpU+ra9QOt9HQPN1mbZMJ0kC4wUPdyxuUu0ql8QWLgeY4KoTRC6qP7UBN3 ylRsXGCv5MSWk8wga24ppxAnnuV66AqLJMJCx7R6Jq6H4uDU/12DxjfzRUtcnTj52vi4 Zsr780ce4HPfKYJq/Nryi9xBaIStcYdzG9ztFsQEIIbitVolmgd9dZhSAV0a2R3pBedR Q4b7bzJRjARGNSw5Up1SIjiJJwJdFN7muo/pfcpf++LOtzv18vKmhAg9/1V4DgZgkyrz GA== Received: from userp3030.oracle.com (userp3030.oracle.com [156.151.31.80]) by aserp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 35ntpamfur-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Dec 2020 18:55:02 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 0BSIetoX192420; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 18:55:02 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 35pf3vq8pc-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 28 Dec 2020 18:55:01 +0000 Received: from abhmp0016.oracle.com (abhmp0016.oracle.com [141.146.116.22]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 0BSIsxqg004851; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 18:54:59 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <9a600718-7caf-4ad0-a664-0ebafba63e57@default> Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2020 10:54:58 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , drew.adams@oracle.com Subject: RE: bug#45428: 27.1; (quote (quote (quote ...))) unexpectedly works as anonymous face References: <<<<>>>> <<<<<87eejc9pnm.fsf@gnus.org>>>>> <<<<>>>> <<<<<5e99c39b-b67b-4184-a890-2cae38fb40de@default>>>>> <<<<<87a6tzk5iv.fsf@metalevel.at>>>>> <<<<<83h7o7kufk.fsf@gnu.org>>>>> <<<<975c150b-99aa-4143-b057-8b5ec7caec19@default>>>> <<<<838s9jkqh7.fsf@gnu.org>>>> <<>> <<<835z4mkpvz.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<5dfff982-e496-46fe-9efd-1e0edd4f0be8@default>> <<83o8idkehc.fsf@gnu.org>> <<83mtxxkcwk.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83mtxxkcwk.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5095.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9848 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 suspectscore=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2012280114 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9848 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 clxscore=1015 phishscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 bulkscore=0 impostorscore=0 priorityscore=1501 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2012280114 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45428 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, triska@metalevel.at, 45428@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > > Shouldn't that just mean that the bug remains open? > > I'm not sure I agree that there is a bug. >=20 > Or maybe I should turn the table and ask: what bug do you see with > this recipe, and what would you like to see instead? >=20 > To be specific, here's the recipe: > emacs -Q > M-x font-lock-mode RET > M-: (insert (propertize "hello" 'face (quote (quote '(:height 10.0)))))= RET Yes, I was using such a recipe to follow this bug. I see the same thing that I see when I use this: (insert (propertize "hello" 'face '(:height 10.0))) That second sexp follows the description (doc) of `propertize'. The first sexp does not. The bug, IMO, is that this is not "a sequence of PROPERY VALUE pairs...", which is what the doc says it should be: (quote (quote '(:height 10.0)))=20 I wouldn't think of this as a doc bug because (1) this behavior is so unusual, and (2) I see no reason for it - no advantage in any way. Wrt #1: nowhere else, AFAIK, do we accept (quote (quote (quote SEXP))) or (quote (quote (quote (quote (quote SEXP))))) or as a substitute for SEXP. Those sexps are certainly are not equivalent for `eval'. We don't do that anywhere else, and I don't see why we should do it here (or anywhere)? I asked whether there's some special reason we should. You've said, I think, that you too see no reason why this is done, except the possible historical one of it having just happened by "accident". That's not a good reason for keeping this exceptional (I'd say bugged) behavior, IMO. That's all. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 28 14:35:23 2020 Received: (at 45428) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Dec 2020 19:35:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36936 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktyId-0002H4-Bx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 14:35:23 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:52728) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktyIb-0002Gl-4G for 45428@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 14:35:21 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:46288) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ktyIU-0007fK-Hv; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 14:35:14 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:3717 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ktyIO-0004dN-5n; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 14:35:14 -0500 Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2020 21:34:58 +0200 Message-Id: <83im8lk9lp.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: <9a600718-7caf-4ad0-a664-0ebafba63e57@default> (message from Drew Adams on Mon, 28 Dec 2020 10:54:58 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: bug#45428: 27.1; (quote (quote (quote ...))) unexpectedly works as anonymous face References: <<<<>>>> <<<<<87eejc9pnm.fsf@gnus.org>>>>> <<<<>>>> <<<<<5e99c39b-b67b-4184-a890-2cae38fb40de@default>>>>> <<<<<87a6tzk5iv.fsf@metalevel.at>>>>> <<<<<83h7o7kufk.fsf@gnu.org>>>>> <<<<975c150b-99aa-4143-b057-8b5ec7caec19@default>>>> <<<<838s9jkqh7.fsf@gnu.org>>>> <<>> <<<835z4mkpvz.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<5dfff982-e496-46fe-9efd-1e0edd4f0be8@default>> <<83o8idkehc.fsf@gnu.org>> <<83mtxxkcwk.fsf@gnu.org>> <9a600718-7caf-4ad0-a664-0ebafba63e57@default> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45428 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, triska@metalevel.at, 45428@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2020 10:54:58 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, triska@metalevel.at, > 45428@debbugs.gnu.org > > I see the same thing that I see when I use this: > > (insert (propertize "hello" 'face '(:height 10.0))) Not exactly the same, see below. > The bug, IMO, is that this is not "a sequence of > PROPERY VALUE pairs...", which is what the doc > says it should be: > > (quote (quote '(:height 10.0))) Right, it's not. > I wouldn't think of this as a doc bug because (1) > this behavior is so unusual Which behavior are you alluding to here? and what is the "doc bug", exactly? > Wrt #1: nowhere else, AFAIK, do we accept > (quote (quote (quote SEXP))) > or (quote (quote (quote (quote (quote SEXP))))) > or as a substitute for SEXP. We don't "accept" it here, either. > We don't do that anywhere else, and I don't see > why we should do it here (or anywhere)? We don't. Please look in *Messages*, and you will see that. > You've said, I think, that you too see no reason > why this is done, except the possible historical > one of it having just happened by "accident". I'm beginning to think that we were talking about two different instances of "this". From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 28 14:58:13 2020 Received: (at 45428) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Dec 2020 19:58:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36945 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktyej-0002oB-MG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 14:58:13 -0500 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.9]:50597) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktyeh-0002o2-OD for 45428@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 14:58:12 -0500 Received: from frontend01.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.182]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D4Syp2kKhz1qqks; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 20:58:10 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.6.70]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D4Syp134wz1tSQF; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 20:58:10 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.182]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.6.70]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gzDY-Teg0ZmD; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 20:58:09 +0100 (CET) X-Auth-Info: uFlsm3+fU3wM5kGL2+gQVmylD3Pcf04vNPkza5FroGu8rMF9wucPXo4RDB7SlGE/ Received: from igel.home (ppp-46-244-181-248.dynamic.mnet-online.de [46.244.181.248]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 20:58:09 +0100 (CET) Received: by igel.home (Postfix, from userid 1000) id DF5082C32E3; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 20:58:08 +0100 (CET) From: Andreas Schwab To: Markus Triska Subject: Re: bug#45428: 27.1; (quote (quote (quote ...))) unexpectedly works as anonymous face References: X-Yow: Please come home with me... I have Tylenol!! Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2020 20:58:08 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Markus Triska's message of "Fri, 25 Dec 2020 13:34:21 +0100") Message-ID: <87a6txk8j3.fsf@igel.home> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1.90 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45428 Cc: 45428@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) On Dez 25 2020, Markus Triska wrote: > In this case, the anonymous face is not specified as a property list, > but as a symbolic expression of the form (quote (quote (quote ...))), > and still works. Is this the intended result, and can we rely on it? If > so, could you please document it? It is already documented, see (elisp) Special Properties. Andreas. -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510 2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1 "And now for something completely different." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 28 15:44:26 2020 Received: (at 45428) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Dec 2020 20:44:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36982 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktzNS-00064U-Gx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 15:44:26 -0500 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:54744) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ktzNO-00064F-Kj for 45428@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 15:44:25 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 0BSKeaXo033392; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 20:44:15 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=yVDF5UoZP9PXL4PvcbvEnNjqEF7tEbNT9MLduz5C8rw=; b=cW4WPTa8kp92rv7zZPsiZTxy+RWXgegc9DNjk+NipEUpqxeb+kRSjwMiP/A0EoR9oNKX 5e/0ndWFQ5xTm3TJ6UuL74j/EJyabiOXTMtEOYGbv/7HxSAWKWPbWuFz2DLfPIiRzQO7 ArVf12OCs9XwkLs1pIoDFn27W2nf4ZKn5/zB6UfB4nVIzv7lmSVdn69yijcQiGmlrzuO Jp/Utxsx9G9r/SEc27yBK5SFiaBXts57Kimlgo2U0Sv1lQ2+82OWejQ+pJXjFXamPEcA 7SKnaHvi3qVU3cPDBZ/p4hyV7P4sfYQ7IMScnTLASVAipJzsd8LKQbSDjpsL2kspuqdN Sg== Received: from userp3030.oracle.com (userp3030.oracle.com [156.151.31.80]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 35phm1bhqc-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Dec 2020 20:44:15 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 0BSKfB7W027300; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 20:44:15 GMT Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by userp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 35pf3vsqv7-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 28 Dec 2020 20:44:14 +0000 Received: from abhmp0016.oracle.com (abhmp0016.oracle.com [141.146.116.22]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 0BSKiCUN005944; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 20:44:12 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2020 12:44:11 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Subject: RE: bug#45428: 27.1; (quote (quote (quote ...))) unexpectedly works as anonymous face References: <<<<<>>>>> <<<<<<87eejc9pnm.fsf@gnus.org>>>>>> <<<<<>>>>> <<<<<<5e99c39b-b67b-4184-a890-2cae38fb40de@default>>>>>> <<<<<<87a6tzk5iv.fsf@metalevel.at>>>>>> <<<<<<83h7o7kufk.fsf@gnu.org>>>>>> <<<<<975c150b-99aa-4143-b057-8b5ec7caec19@default>>>>> <<<<<838s9jkqh7.fsf@gnu.org>>>>> <<<>>> <<<<835z4mkpvz.fsf@gnu.org>>>> <<<5dfff982-e496-46fe-9efd-1e0edd4f0be8@default>>> <<<83o8idkehc.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<<83mtxxkcwk.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<9a600718-7caf-4ad0-a664-0ebafba63e57@default>> <<83im8lk9lp.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83im8lk9lp.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5095.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9848 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 suspectscore=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2012280127 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9848 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 impostorscore=0 phishscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2012280127 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45428 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, triska@metalevel.at, 45428@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > I see the same thing that I see when I use this: > > (insert (propertize "hello" 'face '(:height 10.0))) >=20 > Not exactly the same, see below. >=20 > > The bug, IMO, is that this is not "a sequence of > > PROPERY VALUE pairs...", which is what the doc > > says it should be: (quote (quote '(:height 10.0))) >=20 > Right, it's not. >=20 > > I wouldn't think of this as a doc bug because (1) > > this behavior is so unusual >=20 > Which behavior are you alluding to here? and what is the "doc bug", > exactly? I was alluding to the fact that the doc says that "Remaining arguments form a sequence of PROPERTY VALUE pairs", but the inserted text seems to show the effect of the pair `face (:height 10.0)', even though that pair isn't present. Instead, the only pair is, in effect (by evaling the outermost `quote'), `face (quote '(:height 10.0))'. The value `(quote '(:height 10.0))' for text property `face' is different from the value `(:height 10.0)', but the effect seems to be the same. Likewise, if you use (quote (quote (quote (quote '(:height 10.0))))) > > Wrt #1: nowhere else, AFAIK, do we accept > > (quote (quote (quote SEXP))) > > or (quote (quote (quote (quote (quote SEXP))))) > > or as a substitute for SEXP. >=20 > We don't "accept" it here, either. >=20 > > We don't do that anywhere else, and I don't see > > why we should do it here (or anywhere)? >=20 > We don't. Please look in *Messages*, and you will see that. OK. I see that if I click move point around in *Messages*, and with repetitions presumably from redisplay cycles, this is shown in *Messages*: Invalid face reference: quote There's no doubt some explanation for why the pair formed by nested `quote's doesn't just get rejected but is reported as invalid and has the innermost `(:height 10.0)' taken into account. No doubt you'll explain that (please), but at least I hope you can see that it's not obvious. Given an explanation, there's presumably no bug. So far, without an explanation, I don't understand the behavior. It's surprising, at the least. But I guess it has something to do with what's allowed as a face "reference" and how such are handled? If this is entirely normal behavior then I don't, off-hand, see a way to lessen the surprise by changing the doc. Do you? Depending on the explanation, maybe there's something that could or should be added to the manual about the behavior of anonymous face representations? Having heard the misunderstanding that we've made (still without my understanding, so far), do you have a suggestion for how to dispel/prevent it? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 29 09:53:27 2020 Received: (at 45428) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Dec 2020 14:53:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38100 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kuGNL-0005qf-HE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 09:53:27 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:58592) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kuGNH-0005qS-Gr for 45428@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 09:53:26 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:59938) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kuGNA-0006HV-OL; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 09:53:16 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2761 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kuGN9-00036k-01; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 09:53:15 -0500 Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2020 16:53:07 +0200 Message-Id: <83eej8k6jw.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Mon, 28 Dec 2020 12:44:11 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: bug#45428: 27.1; (quote (quote (quote ...))) unexpectedly works as anonymous face References: <<<<<>>>>> <<<<<<87eejc9pnm.fsf@gnus.org>>>>>> <<<<<>>>>> <<<<<<5e99c39b-b67b-4184-a890-2cae38fb40de@default>>>>>> <<<<<<87a6tzk5iv.fsf@metalevel.at>>>>>> <<<<<<83h7o7kufk.fsf@gnu.org>>>>>> <<<<<975c150b-99aa-4143-b057-8b5ec7caec19@default>>>>> <<<<<838s9jkqh7.fsf@gnu.org>>>>> <<<>>> <<<<835z4mkpvz.fsf@gnu.org>>>> <<<5dfff982-e496-46fe-9efd-1e0edd4f0be8@default>>> <<<83o8idkehc.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<<83mtxxkcwk.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<9a600718-7caf-4ad0-a664-0ebafba63e57@default>> <<83im8lk9lp.fsf@gnu.org>> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45428 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, triska@metalevel.at, 45428@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2020 12:44:11 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, triska@metalevel.at, > 45428@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > I wouldn't think of this as a doc bug because (1) > > > this behavior is so unusual > > > > Which behavior are you alluding to here? and what is the "doc bug", > > exactly? > > I was alluding to the fact that the doc says that > "Remaining arguments form a sequence of PROPERTY > VALUE pairs", but the inserted text seems to show > the effect of the pair `face (:height 10.0)', even > though that pair isn't present. You are still not saying where did you find the documentation which says that. I will go ahead and guess that you mean the doc string of 'propertize', which says: First argument is the string to copy. Remaining arguments form a sequence of PROPERTY VALUE pairs for text properties to add to the result. If that is the documentation you are complaining about, then I find nothing wrong with, because the original recipe, viz.: (propertize "hello" 'face (quote (quote '(:height 10.0)))) does indeed call 'propertize' with a pair, as documented: the PROPERTY is 'face and the VALUE is (quote (quote '(:height 10.0))). So the doc string describes this use case accurately, and there's nothing wrong with the _form_ of the PROPERTIES arguments to 'propertize' in this case. The original bug report said something different: > In 39.12 Faces, the Emacs Lisp documentation states: > > One way to represent a face is as a property list of attributes, > like ‘(:foreground "red" :weight bold)’. Such a list is called an > “anonymous face”. [...] > $ emacs -Q --eval '(font-lock-mode 0)' \ > --eval "(insert (propertize \ > \"hello\" \ > 'face (quote (quote '(:height 10.0)))))" > > In this case, the anonymous face is not specified as a property list, > but as a symbolic expression of the form (quote (quote (quote ...))), > and still works. Is this the intended result, and can we rely on it? If > so, could you please document it? This complaint is about a different instance of "pairs": it's about the form of the _value_ of the 'face' property, not about the form of the "&rest PROPERTIES" arguments of 'propertize'. However, that original complaint is incorrectly assuming that a face can _only_ have the form of an anonymous face, which is a property list of attribute/value pairs. The text it quotes from section 39.12 of the ELisp manual is incomplete; here it is in its entirety: One way to represent a face is as a property list of attributes, like ‘(:foreground "red" :weight bold)’. Such a list is called an "anonymous face". For example, you can assign an anonymous face as the value of the ‘face’ text property, and Emacs will display the underlying text with the specified attributes. *Note Special Properties::. If you follow the cross-reference to "Special Properties", you will find that the value of the 'face' property can be one of the following: . a face symbol . a property list of attribute/value pairs . a cons cell of the form (foreground-color . COLOR) . a cons cell of the form (background-color . COLOR) . a list of faces, each one given by any of the above forms . a cons cell of the form (:filtered FILTER FACE-SPEC), where FACE-SPEC is one of the above forms And now you should recognize that the strange format of the property value, which prompted the original bug report, fits the "list of faces" format as described by the 5th item in the above list. So I still don't see a problem with the documentation in this case. I think the only problem/surprise here could be that Emacs acted according to a single valid part of the face spec and seemingly silently ignored the invalid ones, logging an error message in *Messages* instead of perhaps rejecting it wholesale, and the OP failed to look in *Messages*. However, that doesn't seem to be a bug: the face spec is invalid, and so invokes undefined behavior, where we only have an obligation not to crash nor lock up Emacs (which is why the error message isn't displayed as such: the face merging happens at display time, and we cannot usefully signal an error from redisplay). > Having heard the misunderstanding that we've made > (still without my understanding, so far), do you > have a suggestion for how to dispel/prevent it? Tell users to read the docs? But we already know that doesn't really work... From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 29 11:40:42 2020 Received: (at 45428) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Dec 2020 16:40:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40022 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kuI38-0001KW-Bf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 11:40:42 -0500 Received: from [78.47.144.35] (port=53710 helo=metalevel.at) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kuI35-0001KI-Mh for 45428@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 11:40:41 -0500 Received: by metalevel.at (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 2E9829F569; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 17:40:38 +0100 (CET) From: Markus Triska To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#45428: 27.1; (quote (quote (quote ...))) unexpectedly works as anonymous face References: >>>>> <87eejc9pnm.fsf@gnus.org>>>>>> >>>>> <5e99c39b-b67b-4184-a890-2cae38fb40de@default>>>>>> <87a6tzk5iv.fsf@metalevel.at>>>>>> <83h7o7kufk.fsf@gnu.org>>>>>> <975c150b-99aa-4143-b057-8b5ec7caec19@default>>>>> <838s9jkqh7.fsf@gnu.org>>>>> >>> <835z4mkpvz.fsf@gnu.org>>>> <5dfff982-e496-46fe-9efd-1e0edd4f0be8@default>>> <83o8idkehc.fsf@gnu.org>>> <83mtxxkcwk.fsf@gnu.org>>> <9a600718-7caf-4ad0-a664-0ebafba63e57@default>> <83im8lk9lp.fsf@gnu.org>> <83eej8k6jw.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2020 17:40:38 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83eej8k6jw.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 29 Dec 2020 16:53:07 +0200") Message-ID: <87wnx0tvjt.fsf@metalevel.at> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 1.3 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: > If you follow the cross-reference to "Special Properties", you will > find that the value of the 'face' property can be one of the > following: > > . a face symbol > . a property list of attribute/v [...] Content analysis details: (1.3 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 0.0 SPF_NONE SPF: sender does not publish an SPF Record 1.3 RDNS_NONE Delivered to internal network by a host with no rDNS X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45428 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, 45428@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: > If you follow the cross-reference to "Special Properties", you will > find that the value of the 'face' property can be one of the > following: > > . a face symbol > . a property list of attribute/value pairs > . a cons cell of the form (foreground-color . COLOR) > . a cons cell of the form (background-color . COLOR) > . a list of faces, each one given by any of the above forms > . a cons cell of the form (:filtered FILTER FACE-SPEC), where > FACE-SPEC is one of the above forms > > And now you should recognize that the strange format of the property > value, which prompted the original bug report, fits the "list of > faces" format as described by the 5th item in the above list. In the original bug report, the property value has the form: (quote (quote (quote ...))) I recognize that it is a list. However, I do not recognize that each of its elements is given "by any of the above forms", i.e., by any of: > . a face symbol > . a property list of attribute/value pairs > . a cons cell of the form (foreground-color . COLOR) > . a cons cell of the form (background-color . COLOR) Could you please clarify which of these forms match (quote (quote ...)) ? Thank you a lot! Markus From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 29 12:18:08 2020 Received: (at 45428) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Dec 2020 17:18:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40076 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kuIdM-0002kV-5v for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 12:18:08 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:56974) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kuIdJ-0002jy-BZ for 45428@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 12:18:06 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:34871) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kuIdC-00007L-Aw; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 12:17:58 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:3682 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kuIdB-0006gv-LV; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 12:17:58 -0500 Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2020 19:17:49 +0200 Message-Id: <8335zojzuq.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Markus Triska In-Reply-To: <87wnx0tvjt.fsf@metalevel.at> (message from Markus Triska on Tue, 29 Dec 2020 17:40:38 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#45428: 27.1; (quote (quote (quote ...))) unexpectedly works as anonymous face References: >>>>> <87eejc9pnm.fsf@gnus.org>>>>>> >>>>> <5e99c39b-b67b-4184-a890-2cae38fb40de@default>>>>>> <87a6tzk5iv.fsf@metalevel.at>>>>>> <83h7o7kufk.fsf@gnu.org>>>>>> <975c150b-99aa-4143-b057-8b5ec7caec19@default>>>>> <838s9jkqh7.fsf@gnu.org>>>>> >>> <835z4mkpvz.fsf@gnu.org>>>> <5dfff982-e496-46fe-9efd-1e0edd4f0be8@default>>> <83o8idkehc.fsf@gnu.org>>> <83mtxxkcwk.fsf@gnu.org>>> <9a600718-7caf-4ad0-a664-0ebafba63e57@default>> <83im8lk9lp.fsf@gnu.org>> <83eej8k6jw.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnx0tvjt.fsf@metalevel.at> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45428 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, 45428@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Markus Triska > Cc: Drew Adams , larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, 45428@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2020 17:40:38 +0100 > > In the original bug report, the property value has the form: > > (quote (quote (quote ...))) > > I recognize that it is a list. However, I do not recognize that each of > its elements is given "by any of the above forms", i.e., by any of: > > > . a face symbol > > . a property list of attribute/value pairs > > . a cons cell of the form (foreground-color . COLOR) > > . a cons cell of the form (background-color . COLOR) > > Could you please clarify which of these forms match (quote (quote ...)) ? It's a list, obviously. And the face specification as a list can be recursive, because it can be a list of any mix of any of the allowed forms, including a list. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 29 13:27:24 2020 Received: (at 45428) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Dec 2020 18:27:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40142 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kuJiN-00054M-Gh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 13:27:23 -0500 Received: from aserp2130.oracle.com ([141.146.126.79]:48820) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kuJiL-000547-RZ for 45428@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 13:27:22 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 0BTI8l5F072211; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 18:27:16 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=YGe8tBzpLs9t+COYwZq3GoZB6HKd7hBiBvoOljjP0X4=; b=qeHhESwIch9ETV8SAlvrwn3T6xUbluQ0IC/+XS3o8ZM7zHZSx/fCm0Dfb9GdGQn/aeen 2AWe9m//G5RjhUQ4hCFWCT0AJ903+1dm5jE5GdBk0ZbHN2r82G1XFtbRkAtajUE5kGnh XIbx7J6Qphu+hu2TUczpFbuZO9UVC3+YoBA+czH9u6jVL4v9jZk42zIe2OiVC3YlZ9Nl sbVnT/ibE/wCrYSFf8cxd3wHiohjl6vae0JJIN/8LSJsRHvgk8Rts58mowLi9BVPwj+b d1d9pbD9a4bXN5fLs2YRLoiUwZWTRkZI+1ZzG9/owIC5dB6/KUrNw3IEjYF5uJ0ynfEs GQ== Received: from userp3030.oracle.com (userp3030.oracle.com [156.151.31.80]) by aserp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 35ntpaq3k0-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Dec 2020 18:27:16 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 0BTIOvdl163264; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 18:27:15 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by userp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 35pf3x01dg-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 29 Dec 2020 18:27:15 +0000 Received: from abhmp0016.oracle.com (abhmp0016.oracle.com [141.146.116.22]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 0BTIRC3I008645; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 18:27:13 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2020 10:27:11 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: bug#45428: 27.1; (quote (quote (quote ...))) unexpectedly works as anonymous face References: <<<<<>>>>> <<<<<<87eejc9pnm.fsf@gnus.org>>>>>> <<<<<>>>>> <<<<<<5e99c39b-b67b-4184-a890-2cae38fb40de@default>>>>>> <<<<<<87a6tzk5iv.fsf@metalevel.at>>>>>> <<<<<<83h7o7kufk.fsf@gnu.org>>>>>> <<<<<975c150b-99aa-4143-b057-8b5ec7caec19@default>>>>> <<<<<838s9jkqh7.fsf@gnu.org>>>>> <<<>>> <<<<835z4mkpvz.fsf@gnu.org>>>> <<<5dfff982-e496-46fe-9efd-1e0edd4f0be8@default>>> <<<83o8idkehc.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<<83mtxxkcwk.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<9a600718-7caf-4ad0-a664-0ebafba63e57@default>> <<83im8lk9lp.fsf@gnu.org>> <83eej8k6jw.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83eej8k6jw.fsf@gnu.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5095.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9849 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 suspectscore=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2012290117 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9849 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 clxscore=1015 phishscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 bulkscore=0 impostorscore=0 priorityscore=1501 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2012290116 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45428 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, triska@metalevel.at, 45428@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > The original bug report said something different:... > However, that original complaint is incorrectly assuming that a face > can _only_ have the form of an anonymous face, which is a property > list of attribute/value pairs. The text it quotes from section 39.12 > of the ELisp manual is incomplete; here it is in its entirety: >=20 > One way to represent a face is as a property list of attributes, like > =E2=80=98(:foreground "red" :weight bold)=E2=80=99. Such a list is cal= led an "anonymous > face". For example, you can assign an anonymous face as the value of > the =E2=80=98face=E2=80=99 text property, and Emacs will display the un= derlying text > with the specified attributes. *Note Special Properties::. I think it would help if that simple "See Special Properties" were called out explicitly as telling you to see that node for a complete description of the `face' property. The text before it and after it can indeed give a false impression about property `face' and how a face can be represented.=20 > If you follow the cross-reference to "Special Properties", you will > find that the value of the 'face' property can be one of the > following: >=20 > . a face symbol > . a property list of attribute/value pairs > . a cons cell of the form (foreground-color . COLOR) > . a cons cell of the form (background-color . COLOR) > . a list of faces, each one given by any of the above forms > . a cons cell of the form (:filtered FILTER FACE-SPEC), where > FACE-SPEC is one of the above forms >=20 > And now you should recognize that the strange format of the property > value, which prompted the original bug report, fits the "list of > faces" format as described by the 5th item in the above list. Indeed. I thought that's what you might say. Yes, that description is fine. But I hope you'll recognize that the (quote (quote '(...))) example is a gotcha, especially given that the "Invalid face reference: quote" message is shown in *Messages* only after some action provokes redisplay, and it often is not seen in the echo area. Without your having piped up here to say "Please look in *Messages*" I wouldn't have noticed it, for example. If this were a court of law, your argument that the doc is fine would be convincing. But if we're trying to help and guide users, then I think this `quote' gotcha could be handled better. Better still perhaps, instead of trying to address the specific `quote' gotcha (which is particularly misleading), the "Invalid face..." interaction could perhaps be improved. If that msg were (1) more visible and immediate and (2) said more about what is invalid (even just pointing out that here `quote' is taken as a face name or whatever), that might help. > So I still don't see a problem with the documentation in this case. See above. We could maybe help users a bit more, without giving up any of the exactness of the spec given in `Special Properties' etc. > I think the only problem/surprise here could be that Emacs acted > according to a single valid part of the face spec and seemingly > silently ignored the invalid ones, logging an error message in > *Messages* instead of perhaps rejecting it wholesale, and the OP > failed to look in *Messages*. =20 Yes, now we're thinking along the same lines. The real problem is the interaction with the user and the inadequacy of the message, IMO. > However, that doesn't seem to be a bug: > the face spec is invalid,=20 Yes, but can we say why, in what way, what about it is invalid? (If the doc in question actually referred to "face spec" instead of "face" or "face representation", that would be a start. It would guide user toward the part of the doc that says what can be in a face spec.) > and so invokes undefined behavior, where we > only have an obligation not to crash nor lock up Emacs (which is why > the error message isn't displayed as such: the face merging happens at > display time, and we cannot usefully signal an error from redisplay). I was afraid you might say that. All I can say is that if we can possibly do something better that would help. There are gotchas in Emacs that we can't really prevent or guide users away from (e.g. using existing names of things in perverted, misleading ways). I was hoping this is one where we might be able to help a bit. > > Having heard the misunderstanding that we've made > > (still without my understanding, so far), do you > > have a suggestion for how to dispel/prevent it? >=20 > Tell users to read the docs? But we already know > that doesn't really work... In this case, the problem (IMO) is that the doc they are led to doesn't guide them to the doc that really helps with this. See above. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 29 13:39:52 2020 Received: (at 45428) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Dec 2020 18:39:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40156 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kuJuS-0005Na-FD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 13:39:52 -0500 Received: from [78.47.144.35] (port=55124 helo=metalevel.at) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kuJuR-0005NS-2I for 45428@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 13:39:51 -0500 Received: by metalevel.at (Postfix, from userid 1000) id F0EF79F568; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 19:39:48 +0100 (CET) From: Markus Triska To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#45428: 27.1; (quote (quote (quote ...))) unexpectedly works as anonymous face References: >>>>> <87eejc9pnm.fsf@gnus.org>>>>>> >>>>> <5e99c39b-b67b-4184-a890-2cae38fb40de@default>>>>>> <87a6tzk5iv.fsf@metalevel.at>>>>>> <83h7o7kufk.fsf@gnu.org>>>>>> <975c150b-99aa-4143-b057-8b5ec7caec19@default>>>>> <838s9jkqh7.fsf@gnu.org>>>>> >>> <835z4mkpvz.fsf@gnu.org>>>> <5dfff982-e496-46fe-9efd-1e0edd4f0be8@default>>> <83o8idkehc.fsf@gnu.org>>> <83mtxxkcwk.fsf@gnu.org>>> <9a600718-7caf-4ad0-a664-0ebafba63e57@default>> <83im8lk9lp.fsf@gnu.org>> <83eej8k6jw.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnx0tvjt.fsf@metalevel.at> <8335zojzuq.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2020 19:39:48 +0100 In-Reply-To: <8335zojzuq.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 29 Dec 2020 19:17:49 +0200") Message-ID: <875z4kv4ln.fsf@metalevel.at> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 1.3 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> I recognize that it is a list. However, I do not recognize that each of >> its elements is given "by any of the above forms", i.e., by any of: >> >> > . a face symbol >> > . a property list of attr [...] Content analysis details: (1.3 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 0.0 SPF_NONE SPF: sender does not publish an SPF Record 1.3 RDNS_NONE Delivered to internal network by a host with no rDNS X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45428 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, 45428@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> I recognize that it is a list. However, I do not recognize that each of >> its elements is given "by any of the above forms", i.e., by any of: >> >> > . a face symbol >> > . a property list of attribute/value pairs >> > . a cons cell of the form (foreground-color . COLOR) >> > . a cons cell of the form (background-color . COLOR) >> >> Could you please clarify which of these forms match (quote (quote ...)) ? > > It's a list, obviously. And the face specification as a list can be > recursive, because it can be a list of any mix of any of the allowed > forms, including a list. That's different from the documentation you quoted, which said "by any of the above forms", not "by any of the allowed forms". If it is any mix of any of the allowed forms, could you please consider stating that in the documentation? Thank you, Markus From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 29 14:39:49 2020 Received: (at 45428) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Dec 2020 19:39:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40238 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kuKqT-0006rt-3z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 14:39:49 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:53910) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kuKqP-0006rf-Pb for 45428@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 14:39:47 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:37029) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kuKqI-0003ax-3W; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 14:39:38 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:4413 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kuKqH-0002aV-JC; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 14:39:37 -0500 Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2020 21:39:29 +0200 Message-Id: <83wnx0ieq6.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Tue, 29 Dec 2020 10:27:11 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: bug#45428: 27.1; (quote (quote (quote ...))) unexpectedly works as anonymous face References: <<<<<>>>>> <<<<<<87eejc9pnm.fsf@gnus.org>>>>>> <<<<<>>>>> <<<<<<5e99c39b-b67b-4184-a890-2cae38fb40de@default>>>>>> <<<<<<87a6tzk5iv.fsf@metalevel.at>>>>>> <<<<<<83h7o7kufk.fsf@gnu.org>>>>>> <<<<<975c150b-99aa-4143-b057-8b5ec7caec19@default>>>>> <<<<<838s9jkqh7.fsf@gnu.org>>>>> <<<>>> <<<<835z4mkpvz.fsf@gnu.org>>>> <<<5dfff982-e496-46fe-9efd-1e0edd4f0be8@default>>> <<<83o8idkehc.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<<83mtxxkcwk.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<9a600718-7caf-4ad0-a664-0ebafba63e57@default>> <<83im8lk9lp.fsf@gnu.org>> <83eej8k6jw.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45428 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, triska@metalevel.at, 45428@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2020 10:27:11 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, triska@metalevel.at, > 45428@debbugs.gnu.org > > Indeed. I thought that's what you might say. Yes, > that description is fine. But I hope you'll recognize > that the (quote (quote '(...))) example is a gotcha, > especially given that the "Invalid face reference: > quote" message is shown in *Messages* only after some > action provokes redisplay, and it often is not seen > in the echo area. Without your having piped up here > to say "Please look in *Messages*" I wouldn't have > noticed it, for example. We cannot signal an error from redisplay, so all we can do is log the error in *Messages*. We do that with any error inside redisplay, there's nothing new here. > Better still perhaps, instead of trying to address > the specific `quote' gotcha (which is particularly > misleading), the "Invalid face..." interaction could > perhaps be improved. If that msg were (1) more > visible and immediate and (2) said more about what > is invalid (even just pointing out that here `quote' > is taken as a face name or whatever), that might help. Patches to make the diagnostics in this case are welcome. The code that implements the face merging and deals with these forms is quite simple, and doesn't really know what's wrong with the face in this case, it just knows it's invalid. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 29 14:42:09 2020 Received: (at 45428) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Dec 2020 19:42:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40243 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kuKsj-0006vz-J9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 14:42:09 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:54246) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kuKsi-0006vm-15 for 45428@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 14:42:08 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:37156) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kuKsc-0004Um-Gs; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 14:42:02 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:4566 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kuKsb-0002oB-SX; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 14:42:02 -0500 Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2020 21:41:56 +0200 Message-Id: <83v9ckiem3.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Markus Triska In-Reply-To: <875z4kv4ln.fsf@metalevel.at> (message from Markus Triska on Tue, 29 Dec 2020 19:39:48 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#45428: 27.1; (quote (quote (quote ...))) unexpectedly works as anonymous face References: >>>>> <87eejc9pnm.fsf@gnus.org>>>>>> >>>>> <5e99c39b-b67b-4184-a890-2cae38fb40de@default>>>>>> <87a6tzk5iv.fsf@metalevel.at>>>>>> <83h7o7kufk.fsf@gnu.org>>>>>> <975c150b-99aa-4143-b057-8b5ec7caec19@default>>>>> <838s9jkqh7.fsf@gnu.org>>>>> >>> <835z4mkpvz.fsf@gnu.org>>>> <5dfff982-e496-46fe-9efd-1e0edd4f0be8@default>>> <83o8idkehc.fsf@gnu.org>>> <83mtxxkcwk.fsf@gnu.org>>> <9a600718-7caf-4ad0-a664-0ebafba63e57@default>> <83im8lk9lp.fsf@gnu.org>> <83eej8k6jw.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnx0tvjt.fsf@metalevel.at> <8335zojzuq.fsf@gnu.org> <875z4kv4ln.fsf@metalevel.at> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45428 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, 45428@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Markus Triska > Cc: drew.adams@oracle.com, larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, 45428@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2020 19:39:48 +0100 > > > It's a list, obviously. And the face specification as a list can be > > recursive, because it can be a list of any mix of any of the allowed > > forms, including a list. > > That's different from the documentation you quoted, which said "by any > of the above forms", not "by any of the allowed forms". No, it says "a list of faces". > If it is any mix of any of the allowed forms, could you please consider > stating that in the documentation? I see no need, sorry. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 29 21:55:03 2020 Received: (at 45428) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Dec 2020 02:55:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40603 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kuRdf-0007Hu-Fk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 21:55:03 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:60470) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kuRdc-0007HG-UV for 45428@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 21:55:01 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=SheDFDnybVWwqVfgjh+PHVdfx3uy6aDHF8vhY6q10KE=; b=V/HR5W3AQTMOXz2/r8QP3xvoat JjfTmOrUZFV2iuTwgzcId6vpyUvNKhwCg6FpfZdYVf7LnU9z/fzexuUCs3KTN9JxVJfOS7ndzTH72 5nEKWm6k9edQx4pGBqnOyRbYQ3zmn6WJijJIs4SXalOF2kLmTpoW6ym0z47ZrMzKWfc0=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kuRdT-00015v-9a; Wed, 30 Dec 2020 03:54:53 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#45428: 27.1; (quote (quote (quote ...))) unexpectedly works as anonymous face References: >>>>> <87eejc9pnm.fsf@gnus.org>>>>>> >>>>> <5e99c39b-b67b-4184-a890-2cae38fb40de@default>>>>>> <87a6tzk5iv.fsf@metalevel.at>>>>>> <83h7o7kufk.fsf@gnu.org>>>>>> <975c150b-99aa-4143-b057-8b5ec7caec19@default>>>>> <838s9jkqh7.fsf@gnu.org>>>>> >>> <835z4mkpvz.fsf@gnu.org>>>> <5dfff982-e496-46fe-9efd-1e0edd4f0be8@default>>> <83o8idkehc.fsf@gnu.org>>> <83mtxxkcwk.fsf@gnu.org>>> <9a600718-7caf-4ad0-a664-0ebafba63e57@default>> <83im8lk9lp.fsf@gnu.org>> <83eej8k6jw.fsf@gnu.org> <83wnx0ieq6.fsf@gnu.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAElBMVEVeMjCKSzkXDRSj Z1ezhGj///+MK9mlAAAAAWJLR0QF+G/pxwAAAAd0SU1FB+QMHgIkBbYx/94AAAGVSURBVDjLrZTh leMgDISF2AJQcAEyuQLMygXcLvRf00lAHHD+Hi8vifnsGTEIA1B6D5ZrAEBK+kn6xwVXwUZsAFNC 6MPVE57ILC8w5oHD1n47SMugt8cK/AXCCvb/B64lwuM9aZXfAWt1uxBOUjgUQtokY3qugGPJ+yny 8YQTyb4Y4BVonD/bDTQLkVoUqIdfAOp8UYtPALFUvdBy4yoF6CRnmCxe68DkDvt+LoCRPcSDOc1A Q+TgSGKWAOjfAAxQNJAJ5/ZRR9toBXp1A05OBVqpm0FCBTUbyH4BPUN1keMOOAqReAl3ABQz6Owj TqAlomWF5DPOwCIBMwEKC+hS+kgOkOT+BFmPJ2C5ebALdggeo6iSO2AFRKQRdgvdMuoAWY1Nq4Gz BFLSgLkrGhtef+OQgpZvfhjIW4hwasNYuKGlNdpQBYPIAGhp5VZ4/N7rXzvP8K06TW90N/kCVtgL TCfn+Kq1rxzG3S3PXaAW3ZsPEI+vQiMruLQQWIvNWym94a63gAPULYDSVz5p/bFXz7FnZPoHnpKa sWn/yd8AAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6Y3JlYXRlADIwMjAtMTItMzBUMDI6MzY6MDUrMDA6MDDoTYxrAAAA JXRFWHRkYXRlOm1vZGlmeQAyMDIwLTEyLTMwVDAyOjM2OjA1KzAwOjAwmRA01wAAAABJRU5ErkJg gg== X-Now-Playing: David Bowie's _ChangesTwoBowie_: "Sound And Vision" Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2020 03:54:50 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83wnx0ieq6.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 29 Dec 2020 21:39:29 +0200") Message-ID: <874kk4rojp.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: > We cannot signal an error from redisplay, so all we can do is log the > error in *Messages*. We do that with any error inside redisplay, > there's nothing new here. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45428 Cc: 45428@debbugs.gnu.org, stefan@marxist.se, triska@metalevel.at, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: > We cannot signal an error from redisplay, so all we can do is log the > error in *Messages*. We do that with any error inside redisplay, > there's nothing new here. I think that's the conclusion here, and I'm closing this bug report. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 29 21:55:14 2020 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Dec 2020 02:55:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40606 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kuRdp-0007IN-PZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 21:55:14 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:60490) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kuRdn-0007I8-H5 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 21:55:12 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=kY15sa1xBo53Nldd1dxKwpTY4pH8qLzE1AScJQvyIQw=; b=nbF8iI67Rfdhn0B7w/XI6FjTPz aqy9aBmDMflFAAmKO9mZVUf9koKP7Gsvf2l7hWYy3v02PeCEaVCVFQCmcdToAU8SQQGDVImKKzkbw X4zuhYDlKBHTNjROPkKrZi004QigkTgh4BrAIaCPxkEtEeR98ZQ99aAQdmMF88u4DtBU=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kuRdf-00016A-W7 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 30 Dec 2020 03:55:05 +0100 Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2020 03:55:02 +0100 Message-Id: <8735zorojd.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #45428 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 45428 wontfix close 45428 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 45428 wontfix close 45428 quit From unknown Wed Jun 18 22:58:56 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2021 12:24:07 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator