From unknown Tue Jun 17 20:19:33 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#4477 <4477@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#4477 <4477@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 23.1; logging minibuffer-message messages Reply-To: bug#4477 <4477@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2025 03:19:33 +0000 retitle 4477 23.1; logging minibuffer-message messages reassign 4477 emacs submitter 4477 "Drew Adams" severity 4477 wishlist tag 4477 wontfix thanks From drew.adams@oracle.com Fri Sep 18 00:37:05 2009 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 18 Sep 2009 07:37:06 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=4.0 tests=AWL,FOURLA autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n8I7b4Q7030359 for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2009 00:37:05 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MoY1g-0008Rt-4Z for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Sep 2009 03:37:04 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MoY1a-0008Rh-OH for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Sep 2009 03:37:02 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=49832 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MoY1a-0008Re-IP for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Sep 2009 03:36:58 -0400 Received: from mx20.gnu.org ([199.232.41.8]:50441) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MoY1a-0005Jz-4p for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Sep 2009 03:36:58 -0400 Received: from rcsinet11.oracle.com ([148.87.113.123] helo=rgminet11.oracle.com) by mx20.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MoY1Z-0000pr-HJ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Sep 2009 03:36:57 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rgminet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n8I7bgIH012110 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2009 07:37:43 GMT Received: from abhmt008.oracle.com (abhmt008.oracle.com [141.146.116.17]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n8I7bHwe019022 for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2009 07:37:17 GMT Received: from dradamslap1 (/141.144.80.110) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 18 Sep 2009 00:36:52 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: Subject: 23.1; logging minibuffer-message messages Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 00:36:56 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Aco4Msy2uCN2/DD/TdWdkoUASTpukg== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Source-IP: abhmt008.oracle.com [141.146.116.17] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090207.4AB33895.0098:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by mx20.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) Enhancement request: be able to log `minibuffer-message' messages. > From: Giorgos Keramidas Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 8:22 AM > On Tue, 12 May 2009 07:57:09 -0700, "Drew Adams" > > > How about having a way to log minibuffer messages? > > > > For example, option `message-log-max', which allows for > > disabling logging, could have additional values: > > > > * negative N means (abs N) max lines + log minibuf msgs too > > * other non-nil value, besides t and N, means log minibuf msgs too > > > > With minibuffer messages logged also, a user can consult *Messages* > > (e.g. using `C-x C-b') if s?he misses an ephemeral message. > > That would be useful. I have seen tips about key bindings fly by too > fast when the minibuffer displays something else. Being able > to go back and look for them in *Messages* would be nice. In GNU Emacs 23.1.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2009-07-29 on SOFT-MJASON Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (4.4)' From monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Fri Sep 18 06:27:07 2009 Received: (at control) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 18 Sep 2009 13:27:07 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.7 required=4.0 tests=AWL,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, VALID_BTS_CONTROL autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from ironport2-out.pppoe.ca (ironport2-out.teksavvy.com [206.248.154.181]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n8IDR5NS021198 for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2009 06:27:07 -0700 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AtYEAPsns0pLd/GK/2dsb2JhbACBUs00hBwFh34 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.44,409,1249272000"; d="scan'208";a="46006501" Received: from 75-119-241-138.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([75.119.241.138]) by ironport2-out.pppoe.ca with ESMTP; 18 Sep 2009 09:26:48 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id A313D801B; Fri, 18 Sep 2009 09:26:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#4476: 23.1; frame configuration,frame parameters - how about frame stacking order too? Message-ID: References: <4528F957198E4CF792A809D694BB1DE1@us.oracle.com> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 09:26:48 -0400 In-Reply-To: <4528F957198E4CF792A809D694BB1DE1@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Fri, 18 Sep 2009 00:07:34 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii severity 4476 wishlist severity 4477 wishlist thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 10 16:20:36 2010 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Dec 2010 21:20:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PRAOJ-0001ov-SU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2010 16:20:36 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PRAOI-0001oj-8n for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2010 16:20:34 -0500 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52990) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PRAU7-0000jy-7r; Fri, 10 Dec 2010 16:26:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19714.39690.884356.538112@fencepost.gnu.org> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 16:26:34 -0500 From: Glenn Morris To: control Subject: emacs merge X-Attribution: GM X-Mailer: VM (www.wonderworks.com/vm), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs) X-Hue: yellow X-Ran: &Tpw30<`qT_9$@po"^Aa:pxQj8&P4O[zcP2Y%#{hZ3QgTiVl@@P|DRS( List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.2 (------) merge 3465 4477 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Apr 27 15:13:56 2016 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Apr 2016 19:13:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50578 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1avUuK-0005ZF-7j for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Apr 2016 15:13:56 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:48018) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1avUuI-0005Z7-Q9 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Apr 2016 15:13:55 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.1.64.getinternet.no ([84.215.1.64] helo=mouse) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1avUuG-0001e6-NP for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Apr 2016 21:13:54 +0200 Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 21:13:52 +0200 Message-Id: <878tzyeufj.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #3465 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) close 3465 From unknown Tue Jun 17 20:19:33 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: Did not alter fixed versions and reopened. Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 20:27:02 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # Did not alter fixed versions and reopened. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Aug 22 09:50:20 2020 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Aug 2020 13:50:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49138 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k9TuW-0004M9-0i for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 09:50:20 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:36018) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k9TuU-0004Lu-G1 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 09:50:19 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=RWMGhY4sdmOjiPHvuYxuvrZBqTxm/9j8amM6DhqcYPA=; b=cctFsyw9lGvIcF+NQEuuWhG0ZA CuZ2eyCUAmbzMl2KMBzjfunkml6qdzFAUlNdj9MmqZ8zFG8Yg6e0S0A9JR5aQGQScyUbHHc5LVe3y u7RKtkIJIZ8AfiwXUBGW4z5gUbZOubJUCydC35xP93dvBOFFnWx2qm7OPyE4N8lO7src=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1k9TuM-00089Q-PD for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 15:50:12 +0200 Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 15:50:09 +0200 Message-Id: <87eenyn626.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #3465 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. 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Content preview: tags 3465 wontfix close 3465 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 3465 wontfix close 3465 quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Aug 22 12:37:36 2020 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Aug 2020 16:37:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51249 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k9WWO-0003bY-Kj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 12:37:36 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:56498) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k9WWN-0003bQ-2Q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 12:37:35 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58396) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k9WWM-00013i-S1 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 12:37:34 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([2a01:4f9:2b:f0f::2]:55702) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k9WWK-0005BW-SN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 12:37:34 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=6+DTc0rtZecF/VOeIXuFVAjZ8c+RAGhjaoo3ARy7rjk=; b=FUvbXaSVjFkULgAuNJJ9pMQm27 jwRMt1TJxYNS2MvCazqnk7Yr5yK2L3X6ft1cR7CEXW0UdSsyBAVlXozUUK2mSC39L4RO3/hB129x0 p9KOXlHy7mNsbbEhb2Vtl+iTx7p3bnYKHt+wDPIc3Cb9zY4BzpJXulZY8du2eLp6krA0=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1k9WWF-000178-LU; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 18:37:29 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#4477: 23.1; logging minibuffer-message messages References: > <6b3603bb-0229-41e5-8b0e-238d0167ac0d@default> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAIVBMVEX+/f7f1N6pnLSO b5FjV2k2L1AUFBs6W5+7qDlbmdf////Dr5ctAAAAAWJLR0QKaND0VgAAAAd0SU1FB+QIFhATNrZw x80AAAGpSURBVDjLpZPPTuMwEMZTdsW5KX/Oxam04lbiPEBpxuW62vU4cLe9PACu1SsCyXcOVd6W Ca1raHNg4TtEyfw8nvEXT5Z9XSOWD7P8MD4oWTnOWA8YD8orVvaBjJUXfRlTAtNRD5hlfD7ry6h5 Of/TUyPL8+GQGv6mJjUnVQA1AHB+FeM/7Z5ipXOLSJ8SarEBswgMIiprtEFr0KDagRvvOqIp2CHc ASka7xElamWtaVIG7eS9rz029NZ4F8GZFASgLr13tMCp3xHQugdACf5NmIAwuJQA8teGLBNAXEhZ yeIBnJFpq1OgFGEWOjzJhTULuwNSKOpf6fvQnVPZVFwopa3VKjyTIcbEdk/I2Aqs/StuAzUIMoGC TLeW8/vwRMaLCE45LLstoFIh3EDy6mxNzXeOo6AUkdwl0LbtS4d0CO8yzn3TdvLOmvC4dgms7tqN 1qtLeiTb/7VJa79y8YDH5gPwahpvp6Ial7u40+ne5h/0uXu6Hb7BAdgOxo8DcMEY42w4qeb7GePi aHQynZR8D1Szyahg1xXfH7ai5gTot/RM4UafO8R/6RUjdKzc4FUX+QAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpjcmVh dGUAMjAyMC0wOC0yMlQxNjoxOTo1NCswMDowMOp/LgUAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5ADIwMjAt MDgtMjJUMTY6MTk6NTQrMDA6MDCbIpa5AAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Old's _Formula_: "Devolve" Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 18:37:26 +0200 In-Reply-To: <6b3603bb-0229-41e5-8b0e-238d0167ac0d@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 22 Aug 2020 09:34:00 -0700 (PDT)") Message-ID: <875z9aiqm1.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Drew Adams writes: > Why was this suddenly closed with no explanation? > Was that perhaps a mistake? No, the discussion happened on the merged bug report bug#3465. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a01:4f9:2b:f0f::2; envelope-from=larsi@gnus.org; helo=quimby.gnus.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 2.7 (++) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Drew Adams writes: > Why was this suddenly closed with no explanation? > Was that perhaps a mistake? No, the discussion happened on the merged bug report bug#3465. Content analysis details: (2.7 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -2.3 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, medium trust [209.51.188.17 listed in list.dnswl.org] 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4 RBL: Very Good reputation (+4) [209.51.188.17 listed in wl.mailspike.net] 4.0 EMACSBUGS_TO Sent to the old emacsbugs server 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL Mailspike good senders X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, 4477@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Drew Adams writes: > Why was this suddenly closed with no explanation? > Was that perhaps a mistake? No, the discussion happened on the merged bug report bug#3465. Content analysis details: (1.7 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -2.3 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, medium trust [209.51.188.17 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4 RBL: Very Good reputation (+4) [209.51.188.17 listed in wl.mailspike.net] 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 4.0 EMACSBUGS_TO Sent to the old emacsbugs server 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL Mailspike good senders -1.0 MAILING_LIST_MULTI Multiple indicators imply a widely-seen list manager Drew Adams writes: > Why was this suddenly closed with no explanation? > Was that perhaps a mistake? No, the discussion happened on the merged bug report bug#3465. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Aug 22 12:54:42 2020 Received: (at 4477) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Aug 2020 16:54:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51274 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k9Wmh-00042F-HE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 12:54:42 -0400 Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:48808) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k9Wmd-00041w-Q6; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 12:54:26 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 07MGrTGK092505; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 16:54:17 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=FMDa5a7jeYxGOaExB7KAX5A0l035LUfMCTvjQXUIiR4=; b=HGGTSSZVITrYD3KAv4rUI2Oskexg8glp2+dwYntYKn1qa0Rjc7R5V2KalxNy/37B4nwy T88cP1jv8wPUf/If3q5SvkXivP2Uj7HlS14vCW3CvP8J11aeqTQXPLt6YxnuC54NKf3j Yse6MukD8dLbxqaib0Pnp+NL3bCXNYQiVpfYvuZTuevdP+A4dsm4W7odMK2J/92E6hx1 j5Hvy87hn5Z7mHOrMwRDF99nx2Vn6KyJtFIynY7dEAXBoyQ9U4XBRs7q9eN3NGnjwVnc M+DVoQEPs/P6LkZQcXETWnJQATZV0dYpMXyl95hmwao1n5gZX2S6/Dlbld93FQn1A0Zp hg== Received: from aserp3020.oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [141.146.126.70]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 332tsqh8j3-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 Aug 2020 16:54:17 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 07MGs1iN193171; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 16:54:16 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 332u60jx0p-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 22 Aug 2020 16:54:16 +0000 Received: from abhmp0011.oracle.com (abhmp0011.oracle.com [141.146.116.17]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 07MGsFLg013952; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 16:54:16 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 09:54:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: bug#3465: 23.0.94; feature request: be able to log minibuffer messages References: <87a8keeufp.fsf@gnus.org> <87r3dq248n.fsf@gnu.org> <87ziseu7bh.fsf@gnus.org> <87zh6pkv4b.fsf@gnus.org> <83364hceou.fsf@gnu.org> <87k0xtktxc.fsf@gnus.org> <83wo1taywj.fsf@gnu.org> <871rk1ksob.fsf@gnus.org> <83sgchaydm.fsf@gnu.org> <87sgchjd9r.fsf@gnus.org> <83tuwv9mm2.fsf@gnu.org> <87ft8en62j.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: <87ft8en62j.fsf@gnus.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5044.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9720 signatures=668679 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxlogscore=999 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2006250000 definitions=main-2008220186 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9720 signatures=668679 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 clxscore=1011 mlxscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 priorityscore=1501 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2006250000 definitions=main-2008220186 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 4477 Cc: 3465@debbugs.gnu.org, 4477@debbugs.gnu.org, bojohan@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > >> There's no problem with logging in general. The request is to also ha= ve > >> the messages output by the minibuffer-message function also end up in > >> the *Messages* buffer. No. The request is to _be able_ to also log `minibuffer-message' feedback. > > By default? I'd object to that. As an option, maybe;=20 The bug requested to _be able to_ do it. Not to do it by default. > > but then I > > don't understand why this is requested as a core feature, since any > > Lisp program that wants this can simply call 'message' with the same > > string, and be done. No. `minibuffer-message' has an entirely different UI effect. You are coupling the UI effect (messaging) with the logging effect. It is you, even in your "but then" (i.e., NOT by default), who are saying that every time logging is wanted the UI effect of `message' is also wanted. That's exactly the point of this bug: 1. `message' and `minibuffer-message' have different UI effects. They are used for different things. 2. `message' can be logged. `minibuffer-message' cannot. The point is to be able to log `minibuffer-message', WITHOUT getting the different UI effect of `message'. Please reread the bug report. I don't think it's hard to understand the request: Be able to also log `minibuffer-message' output. And obviously WITHOUT calling `message', which is not logging `minibuffer-message' but logging `message', and which adds the UI effect of `message'. > I thought it would make sense to have that function behave as regularly > as possible... >=20 > However, looking at the use cases for minibuffer-message, all of the > in-tree calls are trivial: "Confirm". "Incomplete". "Hit space to > flush". All of those things are UI details that would be surprising to > have land in the *Messages* buffer. This is irrelevant. User code - 3rd-party libraries can, and do, use `minibuffer-message' in other ways. Don't judge what something is used for generally by such trivial uses of it. Uses of the minibuffer by vanilla Emacs are mostly trivial, There's not much user interaction, not many keys/actions possible in the minibuffer, etc. > So I agree with Eli, and I don't think this is something that > minibuffer-message should do at all. If something wants to do a > minibuffer-message and log it, then that thing should just do both. >=20 > So I'm closing this bug report. Eli seems to have clearly misunderstood the request. And you seem to have based your conclusion of how `minibuffer-message' is and can be used only on its few uses in the vanilla code, which are trivial uses. Please reopen this enhancement request. It's simply a request to _be able to_ log `minibuffer-message' output. Not a big deal. `message' does NOT replace `minibuffer-message', and vice versa. Neither should be hard-code coupled with logging. And each should be able to log, as well as have its minibuffer UI effect. The effects of the two functions should be totally _independent_. (And yes, Juri's recent changes that act against this independence are a real step _backward_. I argued this in vain in that context. Too bad.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Aug 22 13:03:14 2020 Received: (at 4477) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Aug 2020 17:03:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51289 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k9WvC-0004Gx-9N for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 13:03:14 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:54262) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k9Wv7-0004Gd-IK; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 13:03:13 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:40473) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k9Wv2-0008NN-04; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 13:03:04 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1455 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1k9Wv0-00072h-D4; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 13:03:02 -0400 Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 20:02:53 +0300 Message-Id: <834kouaa0y.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Sat, 22 Aug 2020 09:54:14 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: bug#3465: 23.0.94; feature request: be able to log minibuffer messages References: <87a8keeufp.fsf@gnus.org> <87r3dq248n.fsf@gnu.org> <87ziseu7bh.fsf@gnus.org> <87zh6pkv4b.fsf@gnus.org> <83364hceou.fsf@gnu.org> <87k0xtktxc.fsf@gnus.org> <83wo1taywj.fsf@gnu.org> <871rk1ksob.fsf@gnus.org> <83sgchaydm.fsf@gnu.org> <87sgchjd9r.fsf@gnus.org> <83tuwv9mm2.fsf@gnu.org> <87ft8en62j.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 4477 Cc: 3465@debbugs.gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, 4477@debbugs.gnu.org, bojohan@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 09:54:14 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 3465@debbugs.gnu.org, bojohan@gnu.org, 4477@debbugs.gnu.org > > > >> There's no problem with logging in general. The request is to also have > > >> the messages output by the minibuffer-message function also end up in > > >> the *Messages* buffer. > > No. The request is to _be able_ to also log > `minibuffer-message' feedback. > > > > By default? I'd object to that. As an option, maybe; > > The bug requested to _be able to_ do it. > Not to do it by default. I was responding to Lars, not to your original request. > > > but then I > > > don't understand why this is requested as a core feature, since any > > > Lisp program that wants this can simply call 'message' with the same > > > string, and be done. > > No. `minibuffer-message' has an entirely different > UI effect. You are coupling the UI effect (messaging) > with the logging effect. It is you, even in your "but > then" (i.e., NOT by default), who are saying that > every time logging is wanted the UI effect of `message' > is also wanted. Yes, yes, everyone knows that. No need to reiterate the trivia. Please focus on the real issues at hand. > That's exactly the point of this bug: > > 1. `message' and `minibuffer-message' have different UI > effects. They are used for different things. > > 2. `message' can be logged. `minibuffer-message' cannot. > > The point is to be able to log `minibuffer-message', > WITHOUT getting the different UI effect of `message'. Yes, we understood that. No need to reiterate. > Please reread the bug report. I don't think it's hard > to understand the request: Be able to also log > `minibuffer-message' output. Please re-read what I responded. Which part of it contradicts what you requested? > And obviously WITHOUT calling `message', which is not > logging `minibuffer-message' but logging `message', > and which adds the UI effect of `message'. The UI effect of 'message' can be easily disabled by the Lisp program which calls 'message', which in effect converts 'message' into a logging function. Include that in the code that calls 'minibuffer-message', and you have what you wanted, no? > Eli seems to have clearly misunderstood the request. Please don't second-guess my misunderstandings. It is rude, to say the least. > Please reopen this enhancement request. It's simply > a request to _be able to_ log `minibuffer-message' > output. Not a big deal. You are already able to do that, AFAICT. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Aug 22 14:11:36 2020 Received: (at 4477) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Aug 2020 18:11:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51395 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k9XzM-0005zD-Et for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 14:11:36 -0400 Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:53478) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k9XzJ-0005yv-30; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 14:11:35 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 07MI76ct154940; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 18:11:27 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=OX4SDl/T8CHMgaKeN4Kyz7GHuR7WpFxXqLfqrFN4brs=; b=q9yc/t69Anij9IcwgnZrUHAcfNIJ3GelJEUgdTz70//Vkrj0Lmn3P57xMlTGRAUiIWu4 0bljJkMpY8S+RZ3y5+loyAJyMNQshVgDDKgsQowzC0In4j9PgFYQmp0oHGALgDptzC2e 49q70GG/Bt0SIcM0JvP0GtSPJzfltW5NeTTwnQ/JhoubJYiUHYpM0rN2PHCnwps0xAao lRz5dB6tautNvxFLtSPAUt1VWqRNBiDX4tFU4RHpzA7/JcuangaFfrP+o6dfJPJBAsYA kK9seUzQzRDHztlFG7+ul7TBP4On75uNEuHkkwxW7GuQbfWJ7Pn/oOBaH4bXAcoImRHV cw== Received: from userp3020.oracle.com (userp3020.oracle.com [156.151.31.79]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 332v0ms9b8-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 Aug 2020 18:11:27 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 07MI8ZoW008755; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 18:11:26 GMT Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by userp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 332tpgf0yu-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 22 Aug 2020 18:11:26 +0000 Received: from abhmp0008.oracle.com (abhmp0008.oracle.com [141.146.116.14]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 07MIBOlk016548; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 18:11:25 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <028c363a-e801-4c9a-8ebd-d55180961cf7@default> Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 11:11:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Subject: RE: bug#3465: 23.0.94; feature request: be able to log minibuffer messages References: <> <<87a8keeufp.fsf@gnus.org>> <<87r3dq248n.fsf@gnu.org>> <<87ziseu7bh.fsf@gnus.org>> <<87zh6pkv4b.fsf@gnus.org>> <<83364hceou.fsf@gnu.org>> <<87k0xtktxc.fsf@gnus.org>> <<83wo1taywj.fsf@gnu.org>> <<871rk1ksob.fsf@gnus.org>> <<83sgchaydm.fsf@gnu.org>> <<87sgchjd9r.fsf@gnus.org>> <<83tuwv9mm2.fsf@gnu.org>> <<87ft8en62j.fsf@gnus.org>> <> <<834kouaa0y.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<834kouaa0y.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5044.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9721 signatures=668679 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxlogscore=999 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2006250000 definitions=main-2008220200 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9721 signatures=668679 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 suspectscore=0 clxscore=1015 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 impostorscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2006250000 definitions=main-2008220200 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 4477 Cc: 3465@debbugs.gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, 4477@debbugs.gnu.org, bojohan@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > Please reread the bug report. I don't think it's hard > > to understand the request: Be able to also log > > `minibuffer-message' output. >=20 > Please re-read what I responded. Which part of it > contradicts what you requested? >=20 > > And obviously WITHOUT calling `message', which is not > > logging `minibuffer-message' but logging `message', > > and which adds the UI effect of `message'. >=20 > The UI effect of 'message' can be easily disabled by the Lisp program > which calls 'message', which in effect converts 'message' into a > logging function. Include that in the code that calls > 'minibuffer-message', and you have what you wanted, no? Please read what you just responded to again. The request is to be able to have `minibuffer-message' output logged, WITHOUT calling `message'. You seem to keep repeating that we can have the effect of logging the text (and have the UI effect of only `minibuffer-message') by ALSO calling `message'. That's not the request. It's not about whether one can get the effect of logging `minibuffer-message' output without also logging a `message' output for the same text. It's about simply controlling logging for `minibuffer-message', totally, completely, independent of any use of `message'. IOW, please forget about `message'. The request is for a simple way to (optionally) log output of=20 `minibuffer-message', just as we do, for example for `message' output. And without recourse to any call to `message' - no workaround, just a simple way to log `minibuffer-message'. We have such a way for `message' output. The request is for such a way for `minibuffer-message' output - totally independent from `message'. > > Eli seems to have clearly misunderstood the request. >=20 > Please don't second-guess my misunderstandings. It is rude, to say > the least. Fair enough to say that I do think you've misundertood? Perhaps you prefer RMS's favorite way to put it: "We seem to be miscommunicating." You reply that what I say is obvious to all and doesn't need to be said. I reply that I think you're not getting what I'm saying. You reply that there's a workaround (which I could say is obvious to all and doesn't need to be reiterated). I reply that I'm aware of that workaround, and I'm asking for a _simple_ way to do what's requested, along the lines of what's available for `message', for instance. > > Please reopen this enhancement request. It's simply > > a request to _be able to_ log `minibuffer-message' > > output. Not a big deal. >=20 > You are already able to do that, AFAICT. Not simply. Not in a way similar or analogous to what we can do for `message'. Not without jumping through a hoop - also calling `message'. Please keep `message' out of it. This request is about `minibuffer-message'. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Aug 22 14:34:40 2020 Received: (at 4477) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Aug 2020 18:34:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51439 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k9YLg-0000Mb-K2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 14:34:40 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:38618) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k9YLc-0000MH-Nl; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 14:34:38 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=vuRavbDBFkp/QpN6NT/6nMXIZuLLo/X39EYX4K/8TwU=; b=EL5wkCQTE3os9n0q6i0vjwfsvh a8tORPNep5c+UC4Of/t8dMnUQTEVeHTMI3d0QpTyoXeF1GQUCbtfQTlwCkLM/W9TSCd0sUofQ2l+x vMoursnVTKb/yB87AfcWxHD1YsMn24MsHA152Bp4MoTZdpJyZ4sakpeRpw7npm9s57mo=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1k9YLT-0002aQ-0V; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 20:34:29 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#3465: 23.0.94; feature request: be able to log minibuffer messages References: > <87a8keeufp.fsf@gnus.org>> <87r3dq248n.fsf@gnu.org>> <87ziseu7bh.fsf@gnus.org>> <87zh6pkv4b.fsf@gnus.org>> <83364hceou.fsf@gnu.org>> <87k0xtktxc.fsf@gnus.org>> <83wo1taywj.fsf@gnu.org>> <871rk1ksob.fsf@gnus.org>> <83sgchaydm.fsf@gnu.org>> <87sgchjd9r.fsf@gnus.org>> <83tuwv9mm2.fsf@gnu.org>> <87ft8en62j.fsf@gnus.org>> > <834kouaa0y.fsf@gnu.org>> <028c363a-e801-4c9a-8ebd-d55180961cf7@default> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAElBMVEXOs1nu2qT9/OSs VioqHRH///8ntA6cAAAAAWJLR0QF+G/pxwAAAAd0SU1FB+QIFhIeLP04lJQAAAG/SURBVDjLXZSL dcMgDEUl0wEk6AAWWUBUHiAt3n+mCgP+BI5PHC56Qh8MGJmF2xP9jfMcYBo0gZkAowJcQCRKlsw+ 88Ni/ArnxVfjJ+CXYYHE6sY3IIVJtUCgwistFwDgVBSQk7qbECd4FWGiEjO9lszxhScw9N1LzCzC K6YSOxAM2CTQj+wbAuIA6+LaAclXSFdz5xNAFDa0knyu6sHg8BFcRDgsoZA2v8eBG0gA6Bn02WIS TEMqf4MSwpFh9+6hzuN+7UpvGMNoqxfYPeHmExRs398TfO9tvCEAbO3tb4J1f45lAtoe6/VMIsGd mJ5pXyHYRNUsyh1MUjWueEl5ButBDCLVG7CWdk8Mi4cH16mgheXhha1p9f4Arxt7aKd3d96Ba7Br We2oKs/24YGajCnOljssOmrOW2/fQVudO3rHUv/fK6GuxLzaIq0C3QBbIqs717jtNcBQIAxXbv0p vtoBPQvyk6Vb4LMge3HtA6SZ8QG8z/pxv8b6IL9nHD3jbWzdxZES77KhVOvdot3V7ttBf5ntI93H /bSjUJKe4LqcfFbpNBj3fL2B38cHQLqNey8fn4xModX1LOAFPsc/wrejvuR82eYAAAAldEVYdGRh dGU6Y3JlYXRlADIwMjAtMDgtMjJUMTg6MzA6NDQrMDA6MDB4SrAgAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOm1vZGlm eQAyMDIwLTA4LTIyVDE4OjMwOjQ0KzAwOjAwCRcInAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: The Rolling Stones's _Let It Bleed_: "Gimme Shelter" Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 20:34:25 +0200 In-Reply-To: <028c363a-e801-4c9a-8ebd-d55180961cf7@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 22 Aug 2020 11:11:23 -0700 (PDT)") Message-ID: <87y2m6h6mm.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Drew Adams writes: > Please read what you just responded to again. > > The request is to be able to have `minibuffer-message' > output logged, WITHOUT calling `message'. We understand the request, and we have said "no, we're not going to add that to Emacs". Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 4477 Cc: 3465@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , 4477@debbugs.gnu.org, bojohan@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Drew Adams writes: > Please read what you just responded to again. > > The request is to be able to have `minibuffer-message' > output logged, WITHOUT calling `message'. We understand the request, and we have said "no, we're not going to add that to Emacs". If you want to do a minibuffer message and log it, you can write your own function: (defun minibuffer-message-and-log (&rest args) (let ((inhibit-message t)) (apply #'message args)) (apply #'minibuffer-message args)) Or whatever. This seems to be a common thread when you request extending a function to do something special in one way or another, when that can be done trivially by just calling two functions instead. And the rearguard-fighting action when these requests are rejected are tiresome, to say the least. Please stop doing it. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Aug 22 14:36:49 2020 Received: (at 4477) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Aug 2020 18:36:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51450 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k9YNl-0000Qa-AB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 14:36:49 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:41706) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k9YNk-0000QM-7Y; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 14:36:48 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:41529) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k9YNe-00027X-MS; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 14:36:42 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3258 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1k9YNd-0002SS-QW; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 14:36:42 -0400 Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 21:36:33 +0300 Message-Id: <83zh6m8r4e.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: <028c363a-e801-4c9a-8ebd-d55180961cf7@default> (message from Drew Adams on Sat, 22 Aug 2020 11:11:23 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: bug#3465: 23.0.94; feature request: be able to log minibuffer messages References: <> <<87a8keeufp.fsf@gnus.org>> <<87r3dq248n.fsf@gnu.org>> <<87ziseu7bh.fsf@gnus.org>> <<87zh6pkv4b.fsf@gnus.org>> <<83364hceou.fsf@gnu.org>> <<87k0xtktxc.fsf@gnus.org>> <<83wo1taywj.fsf@gnu.org>> <<871rk1ksob.fsf@gnus.org>> <<83sgchaydm.fsf@gnu.org>> <<87sgchjd9r.fsf@gnus.org>> <<83tuwv9mm2.fsf@gnu.org>> <<87ft8en62j.fsf@gnus.org>> <> <<834kouaa0y.fsf@gnu.org>> <028c363a-e801-4c9a-8ebd-d55180961cf7@default> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 4477 Cc: 3465@debbugs.gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, 4477@debbugs.gnu.org, bojohan@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 11:11:23 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 3465@debbugs.gnu.org, bojohan@gnu.org, > 4477@debbugs.gnu.org > > The request is to be able to have `minibuffer-message' > output logged, WITHOUT calling `message'. Why "without"? > It's about simply controlling logging for > `minibuffer-message', totally, completely, independent > of any use of `message'. You want every single call to minibuffer-message to be logged in *Messages*? I'm guessing not, because this would make no sense. If you want to log only _some_ calls to minibuffer-message, then you will have to have special code to request that in those places where you want the minibuffer messages to be logged. I'm saying that you can easily call 'message' in those places, and be done with that. > IOW, please forget about `message'. The request is > for a simple way to (optionally) log output of > `minibuffer-message', just as we do, for example for > `message' output. And without recourse to any call > to `message' - no workaround, just a simple way to > log `minibuffer-message'. We have such a way for > `message' output. The request is for such a way for > `minibuffer-message' output - totally independent > from `message'. You cannot request a feature and then also dictate how it is implemented. The solution I proposed should do what you want without requiring any changes to the core. > > You are already able to do that, AFAICT. > > Not simply. It's simple enough, from where I stand. Certainly so for a minor feature such as this one. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Aug 22 15:17:30 2020 Received: (at 4477) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Aug 2020 19:17:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51497 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k9Z18-0003Rv-5k for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 15:17:30 -0400 Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:41640) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k9Z15-0003ML-R9; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 15:17:29 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 07MJD7MT128375; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 19:17:22 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=XOH2giuc6NW3P6OnNdNBw+pZAE/4FEhBt2ZPdoGCHvY=; b=sy99EcIJboU1NPpBcBIUUL2fTTYF9IUjBuBMTMBZEQQ+Uk4xzBDA3L1K5INHFp1UuPXN bK9khwW+3w4VNBfGkCdsVzwcTwj4bjlcW+OUJO1fFJSLvMVbPG+GImwe5/8rrB/JsQg2 6HeJ01zwOlhXWIxtqIEqmOvCqWVxavz4Dv9EouSzn8JwRN7DWB8oXs3XQH6xVJjfGxmp wOUMA8+9GRZ/BDhDi0pm+b4htp0RMniABpXSZkf+xWajZk9DDUKqPhLvg+AYEPJolGkI pLI+9pNzdM4oBspnA8iC7gufIv5lnkleB8x4jyBbcQLYS2F/HJokKpCZi5ANGJvk7AtU Zw== Received: from aserp3030.oracle.com (aserp3030.oracle.com [141.146.126.71]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 332tsqhfen-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 Aug 2020 19:17:21 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 07MJCc1Y031299; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 19:17:21 GMT Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by aserp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 332sd8qnbm-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 22 Aug 2020 19:17:21 +0000 Received: from abhmp0008.oracle.com (abhmp0008.oracle.com [141.146.116.14]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 07MJHHWc006274; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 19:17:18 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <12b66207-14ef-46aa-98d5-533362f0a3ea@default> Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 12:17:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Subject: RE: bug#3465: 23.0.94; feature request: be able to log minibuffer messages References: <<>> <<<87a8keeufp.fsf@gnus.org>>> <<<87r3dq248n.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<<87ziseu7bh.fsf@gnus.org>>> <<<87zh6pkv4b.fsf@gnus.org>>> <<<83364hceou.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<<87k0xtktxc.fsf@gnus.org>>> <<<83wo1taywj.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<<871rk1ksob.fsf@gnus.org>>> <<<83sgchaydm.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<<87sgchjd9r.fsf@gnus.org>>> <<<83tuwv9mm2.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<<87ft8en62j.fsf@gnus.org>>> <<>> <<<834kouaa0y.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<028c363a-e801-4c9a-8ebd-d55180961cf7@default>> <<83zh6m8r4e.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83zh6m8r4e.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5044.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9721 signatures=668679 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2006250000 definitions=main-2008220212 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9721 signatures=668679 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 clxscore=1015 mlxscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 priorityscore=1501 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2006250000 definitions=main-2008220212 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 4477 Cc: 3465@debbugs.gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, 4477@debbugs.gnu.org, bojohan@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > The request is to be able to have `minibuffer-message' > > output logged, WITHOUT calling `message'. >=20 > Why "without"? Treat `minibuffer-message' as first-class, the same way `message' is treated. `message' shouldn't affect `minibuffer-message', and vice versa. `message' has an easy way to do what's requested; `minibuffer-message' does not have one. > > It's about simply controlling logging for > > `minibuffer-message', totally, completely, independent > > of any use of `message'. >=20 > You want every single call to minibuffer-message to be logged in > *Messages*? I'm guessing not, because this would make no sense. Not at all. What makes you think that? I think I made it clear that the request is to be able to have, for `minibuffer-message', control over logging similar to what we have for `message'. They are separate. They should remain separate. All that's being requested is logging control for `minibuffer-message' that's on a par with the logging control for `message'. > If you want to log only _some_ calls to minibuffer-message, then you > will have to have special code to request that in those places where > you want the minibuffer messages to be logged. I'm saying that you > can easily call 'message' in those places, and be done with that. What I want is to be able to do with and for `minibuffer-message' what I can do with and for `message'. Without any use of `message' - no connection between the two, no dependence of either on the other. > > IOW, please forget about `message'. The request is > > for a simple way to (optionally) log output of > > `minibuffer-message', just as we do, for example for > > `message' output. And without recourse to any call > > to `message' - no workaround, just a simple way to > > log `minibuffer-message'. We have such a way for > > `message' output. The request is for such a way for > > `minibuffer-message' output - totally independent > > from `message'. >=20 > You cannot request a feature and then also dictate > how it is implemented. I in no way dictated anything about implementation. I have said absolutely nothing about implementation. The entire request is expressed in terms of behavior: user-visible, user-controllable behavior. Nothing about implementation. It's about what users can do. > The solution I proposed should do what you want without > requiring any changes to the core. See above. It doesn't do what was requested. > > > You are already able to do that, AFAICT. > > > > Not simply. >=20 > It's simple enough, from where I stand. Certainly > so for a minor feature such as this one. From unknown Tue Jun 17 20:19:33 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2020 11:24:08 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator