GNU bug report logs - #44513
default value of file-name-coding-system

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Boruch Baum <boruch_baum <at> gmx.com>
To: Emacs Bug Reporting <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>
Subject: default value of file-name-coding-system
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2020 04:15:50 -0500

Shouldn't emacs ship with the default value of variable
file-name-coding-system being equal to that of the default value of
default-file-name-coding-system?

                 file-name-coding-system  => nil
  (default-value file-name-coding-system) => nil
         default-file-name-coding-system  => utf-8-unix

ref: thread on emacs-devel list "fixing url-unhex-string for
unicode/multi-byte charsets" ~November 6, 2020.

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Message #8 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org, Boruch Baum <boruch_baum <at> gmx.com>,
 44513 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#44513: default value of file-name-coding-system
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2020 13:29:13 +0200

On November 8, 2020 11:15:50 AM GMT+02:00, Boruch Baum <boruch_baum <at> gmx.com> wrote:
> Shouldn't emacs ship with the default value of variable
> file-name-coding-system being equal to that of the default value of
> default-file-name-coding-system?
> 
>                  file-name-coding-system  => nil
>   (default-value file-name-coding-system) => nil
>          default-file-name-coding-system  => utf-8-unix

These are 2 separate variables, see the doc string of default-file-name-coding-system.  One is for the user to set, thus nil by default, the other is what Emacs thinks should be the OS default.  They are separate because Unix filesystems traditionally treat file names as byte streams, without imposing any encoding restrictions on them.

Message #14 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Boruch Baum <boruch_baum <at> gmx.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org, 44513 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#44513: default value of file-name-coding-system
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2020 07:27:03 -0500

On 2020-11-08 13:29, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> On November 8, 2020 11:15:50 AM GMT+02:00, Boruch Baum <boruch_baum <at> gmx.com> wrote:
> > Shouldn't emacs ship with the default value of variable
> > file-name-coding-system being equal to that of the default value of
> > default-file-name-coding-system?
> >
> >                  file-name-coding-system  => nil
> >   (default-value file-name-coding-system) => nil
> >          default-file-name-coding-system  => utf-8-unix
>
> These are 2 separate variables, see the doc string of default-file-name-coding-system.  One is for the user to set, thus nil by default, the other is what Emacs thinks should be the OS default.  They are separate because Unix filesystems traditionally treat file names as byte streams, without imposing any encoding restrictions on them.

I'm proposing that even the one that's 'for the user to set' should have
a sane default. I'm a user, and it never occurred to me I needed to set
that variable (among all the other emacs variables begging a
customization). What percentage of users do you think install emacs and
on their own initiative say, "Of course, I now need to set
file-name-coding-system". If so, maybe it should be part of the official
emacs tutorial (sarcasm)?

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Message #20 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Boruch Baum <boruch_baum <at> gmx.com>
Cc: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org, 44513 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#44513: default value of file-name-coding-system
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2020 14:58:17 +0200

On November 8, 2020 2:27:03 PM GMT+02:00, Boruch Baum <boruch_baum <at> gmx.com> wrote:
> On 2020-11-08 13:29, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > On November 8, 2020 11:15:50 AM GMT+02:00, Boruch Baum
> <boruch_baum <at> gmx.com> wrote:
> > > Shouldn't emacs ship with the default value of variable
> > > file-name-coding-system being equal to that of the default value
> of
> > > default-file-name-coding-system?
> > >
> > >                  file-name-coding-system  => nil
> > >   (default-value file-name-coding-system) => nil
> > >          default-file-name-coding-system  => utf-8-unix
> >
> > These are 2 separate variables, see the doc string of
> default-file-name-coding-system.  One is for the user to set, thus nil
> by default, the other is what Emacs thinks should be the OS default. 
> They are separate because Unix filesystems traditionally treat file
> names as byte streams, without imposing any encoding restrictions on
> them.
> 
> I'm proposing that even the one that's 'for the user to set' should
> have
> a sane default. I'm a user, and it never occurred to me I needed to
> set
> that variable (among all the other emacs variables begging a
> customization). What percentage of users do you think install emacs
> and
> on their own initiative say, "Of course, I now need to set
> file-name-coding-system". If so, maybe it should be part of the
> official
> emacs tutorial (sarcasm)?

I completely agree with the sane default requirement.  Which is why the default is nil, and why users are not required to set file-name-coding-system: nil does TRT.  You can see that every day in Emacs if you use non-ASCII file names, because Emacs encodes every file name it passes to the system APIs.

The original issue, btw, was not about what users should do, it was about what Lisp programs processing and interpreting file names should do: they should consult default-file-name-coding-system if the user variable is nil, as it usually is.

Message #26 received at 44513 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Boruch Baum <boruch_baum <at> gmx.com>, 44513 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#44513: default value of file-name-coding-system
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2020 16:37:07 +0100

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

> I completely agree with the sane default requirement.  Which is why
> the default is nil, and why users are not required to set
> file-name-coding-system: nil does TRT. 

Yup; I think everything here works as designed, so I'm closing this bug
report.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

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