From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Nov 07 10:16:49 2020 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Nov 2020 15:16:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59079 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kbPxR-0000BV-4a for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 07 Nov 2020 10:16:49 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:38148) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kbPxQ-0000BO-4a for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 07 Nov 2020 10:16:48 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45744) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kbPxP-00029O-VI for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 07 Nov 2020 10:16:47 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:59817) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kbPxP-0003mH-Ls for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 07 Nov 2020 10:16:47 -0500 Received: from [2602:30a:2e52:d720:65b7:1416:12e7:8bfb] (port=48280 helo=regnitz) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kbPxO-0001er-Qw for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 07 Nov 2020 10:16:47 -0500 Message-ID: <47686.12087.468202.24486@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2020 09:16:22 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: "Roland Winkler" To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 27.1; image-scroll-up and image-scroll-down X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) My understanding of the doc strings of image-scroll-up and image-scroll-down is that the argument N should be a number, nil, or `-'." However, these commands use (interactive "P") with prefix-numeric-value inside the body of these commands. I suggest to document this behavior. (I guess it is not very clean to use prefix-numeric-value inside the body of these commands. But changing this behavior likely will break existing code that uses these commands.) I realized this when I looked at doc-view's scrolling commands doc-view-scroll-up-or-next-page and doc-view-scroll-down-or-previous-page that likewise use (interactive "P"), contrary, to what the docstrings of these commands say, and I was surprised that this gives a meaningful behavior. So these docstrings probably should be updated, too. In GNU Emacs 27.1 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.18.9) of 2020-08-31 built on regnitz Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11804000 System Description: Ubuntu 16.04.7 LTS From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Nov 07 10:26:10 2020 Received: (at 44503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Nov 2020 15:26:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59084 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kbQ6U-0000Py-3y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 07 Nov 2020 10:26:10 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:47372) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kbQ6S-0000Pm-0w for 44503@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 07 Nov 2020 10:26:08 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:59939) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kbQ6M-00076l-Pz for 44503@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 07 Nov 2020 10:26:02 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3930 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kbQ6L-0002Su-7e; Sat, 07 Nov 2020 10:26:01 -0500 Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2020 17:26:02 +0200 Message-Id: <835z6h6ved.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: "Roland Winkler" In-Reply-To: <47686.12087.468202.24486@gargle.gargle.HOWL> (winkler@gnu.org) Subject: Re: bug#44503: 27.1; image-scroll-up and image-scroll-down References: <47686.12087.468202.24486@gargle.gargle.HOWL> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 44503 Cc: 44503@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2020 09:16:22 -0600 > From: "Roland Winkler" > > > My understanding of the doc strings of image-scroll-up and > image-scroll-down is that the argument N should be a number, nil, or > `-'." However, these commands use (interactive "P") with > prefix-numeric-value inside the body of these commands. I suggest > to document this behavior. (I guess it is not very clean to use > prefix-numeric-value inside the body of these commands. But > changing this behavior likely will break existing code that uses > these commands.) > > I realized this when I looked at doc-view's scrolling commands > doc-view-scroll-up-or-next-page and > doc-view-scroll-down-or-previous-page > that likewise use (interactive "P"), contrary, to what the > docstrings of these commands say, and I was surprised that this > gives a meaningful behavior. So these docstrings probably should be > updated, too. Thanks. Can you suggest the changes to the relevant doc strings? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Nov 09 15:03:30 2020 Received: (at 44503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Nov 2020 20:03:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35635 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kcDNy-0003fW-4e for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Nov 2020 15:03:30 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:44392) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kcDNx-0003fK-0X for 44503@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Nov 2020 15:03:29 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:50033) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kcDNr-0003xv-P9 for 44503@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Nov 2020 15:03:23 -0500 Received: from [2602:30a:2e52:d720:65b7:1416:12e7:8bfb] (port=51386 helo=regnitz) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kcDNq-00014F-AD; Mon, 09 Nov 2020 15:03:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <41096.42019.863060.24489@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2020 14:03:20 -0600 From: "Roland Winkler" To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#44503: 27.1; image-scroll-up and image-scroll-down In-Reply-To: <835z6h6ved.fsf@gnu.org> References: <47686.12087.468202.24486@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <835z6h6ved.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 44503 Cc: 44503@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) On Sat Nov 7 2020 Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Thanks. Can you suggest the changes to the relevant doc strings? Digging in the sources, I realized that using raw prefix args includes not only image-scroll-up and image-scroll-down but also the built-in functions scroll-up and scroll-down. I'll try to come up with a patch that covers all relevant doc strings. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jun 06 06:37:37 2021 Received: (at 44503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jun 2021 10:37:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50749 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lpq9x-0001Rh-MJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Jun 2021 06:37:37 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:58352) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lpq9r-0001RC-QE for 44503@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Jun 2021 06:37:35 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Di/y0oAL4t3spjsLy+OqBx1KKEuPj3gUTP82KOZTZZg=; b=ivi5GosSbUPLomum0faeFFgV91 N5fAMuU/yxgq9oOKy60oWcGFaHomcaT1DWdZksHNk1+DYi1VgngsNql2DeKN9joXxPPqeWCiG/Frh G2xcNk6jmydz6fTsjB1JaPU3IHdcsm8Gl0V+Ckg/W6Cej2viXrOmO5tvOs3HtAxwcKTg=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lpq9j-0005ao-Nq; Sun, 06 Jun 2021 12:37:25 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: "Roland Winkler" Subject: Re: bug#44503: 27.1; image-scroll-up and image-scroll-down References: <47686.12087.468202.24486@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <835z6h6ved.fsf@gnu.org> <41096.42019.863060.24489@gargle.gargle.HOWL> X-Now-Playing: Crash Course In Science's _Situational Awareness_: "Some Change" Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2021 12:37:23 +0200 In-Reply-To: <41096.42019.863060.24489@gargle.gargle.HOWL> (Roland Winkler's message of "Mon, 9 Nov 2020 14:03:20 -0600") Message-ID: <87mts3s2ho.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: "Roland Winkler" writes: > On Sat Nov 7 2020 Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Thanks. Can you suggest the changes to the relevant doc strings? > > Digging in the sources, I realized that using raw prefix args > includes not only image [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 44503 Cc: 44503@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) "Roland Winkler" writes: > On Sat Nov 7 2020 Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Thanks. Can you suggest the changes to the relevant doc strings? > > Digging in the sources, I realized that using raw prefix args > includes not only image-scroll-up and image-scroll-down but also the > built-in functions scroll-up and scroll-down. I'll try to come up > with a patch that covers all relevant doc strings. Did you make any further progress here? -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jun 08 11:34:21 2021 Received: (at 44503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jun 2021 15:34:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59547 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lqdkC-0002PR-UR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jun 2021 11:34:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:52936) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lqdkB-0002PB-2M for 44503@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jun 2021 11:34:20 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:37010) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lqdk5-00086p-K8; Tue, 08 Jun 2021 11:34:13 -0400 Received: from [2600:1700:5650:f790::12] (port=36466 helo=regnitz) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lqdk4-0001zn-HF; Tue, 08 Jun 2021 11:34:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <36339.58287.924793.24767@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2021 10:34:11 -0500 From: "Roland Winkler" To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#44503: 27.1; image-scroll-up and image-scroll-down In-Reply-To: <87mts3s2ho.fsf@gnus.org> References: <47686.12087.468202.24486@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <835z6h6ved.fsf@gnu.org> <41096.42019.863060.24489@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <87mts3s2ho.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 44503 Cc: 44503@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) On Sun Jun 6 2021 Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > "Roland Winkler" writes: > > > On Sat Nov 7 2020 Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> Thanks. Can you suggest the changes to the relevant doc strings? > > > > Digging in the sources, I realized that using raw prefix args > > includes not only image-scroll-up and image-scroll-down but also the > > built-in functions scroll-up and scroll-down. I'll try to come up > > with a patch that covers all relevant doc strings. > > Did you make any further progress here? I am sorry, I haven't had as much progress as I had wanted to. I realized that the discrepancy between documented behavior and actual code exists in a larger number of commands than I had expected. So the question becomes: for how many commands do we want to include a remark in the docstring saying that due to historical reasons they call prefix-numeric-value not in their interactive specs, but scroll_command calls prefix_numeric_value in its body, which defines how these commands interpret the argument. (The actual wording in the docstrings should probably be different.) I guess for the built-in functions scroll-up and scroll-down as well as image-scroll-up and image-scroll-down it is most important to mention this and we could leave the docstrings of other commands untouched. What do you think? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jun 09 05:56:50 2021 Received: (at 44503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jun 2021 09:56:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60515 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lqux8-0004gk-9s for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 09 Jun 2021 05:56:50 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:35874) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lqux5-0004gW-KH for 44503@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 09 Jun 2021 05:56:49 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=0VKz9Rj75+aTpo46wjmDy/7QGbdCCLEHDY9efxwIC30=; b=KFpmgt9TaBqi0LZ8w+ElFITW0M JwsXjCiFMCRqXBC0khDXnqoa1ECPLgWjk//2oOXF2vKENg7NJc8cBEbls2npFW2I2n7MGX/IKg36i pXQWctV/42vJKW/HdPPIWcrE1kufbw/o9C8mEB91lYGJnnlA+505Y4vS7+5Jlmaov/xE=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lquww-0002ad-Qq; Wed, 09 Jun 2021 11:56:41 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: "Roland Winkler" Subject: Re: bug#44503: 27.1; image-scroll-up and image-scroll-down References: <47686.12087.468202.24486@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <835z6h6ved.fsf@gnu.org> <41096.42019.863060.24489@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <87mts3s2ho.fsf@gnus.org> <36339.58287.924793.24767@gargle.gargle.HOWL> X-Now-Playing: Random_Inc's _Walking in Jerusalem_: "Random_Inc Meets Electric Birds in Mamillah" Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2021 11:56:38 +0200 In-Reply-To: <36339.58287.924793.24767@gargle.gargle.HOWL> (Roland Winkler's message of "Tue, 8 Jun 2021 10:34:11 -0500") Message-ID: <8735trmkdl.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: "Roland Winkler" writes: > I am sorry, I haven't had as much progress as I had wanted to. I > realized that the discrepancy between documented behavior and actual > code exists in a larger number of commands than I had expect [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 44503 Cc: 44503@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) "Roland Winkler" writes: > I am sorry, I haven't had as much progress as I had wanted to. I > realized that the discrepancy between documented behavior and actual > code exists in a larger number of commands than I had expected. So > the question becomes: for how many commands do we want to include a > remark in the docstring saying that due to historical reasons they > call prefix-numeric-value not in their interactive specs, but > scroll_command calls prefix_numeric_value in its body, which defines > how these commands interpret the argument. (The actual wording in the > docstrings should probably be different.) > > I guess for the built-in functions scroll-up and scroll-down as well > as image-scroll-up and image-scroll-down it is most important to > mention this and we could leave the docstrings of other commands > untouched. What do you think? Well, the doc strings for these commands don't really describe interactive usage at all, but I think most people would interpret what's there as "it's like (interactive "p"), but with no prefix at all it behaves differently". (Which is what it does -- a full screen instead of a line.) Stating this explicitly in the doc strings of these four commands would be nice. So something like: Interactively, giving this command a numerical prefix will scroll by that many lines. Without a prefix, scroll by a full screen. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jun 09 07:51:39 2021 Received: (at 44503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jun 2021 11:51:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60670 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lqwkF-0000AE-4d for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 09 Jun 2021 07:51:39 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:36496) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lqwkD-00009x-6D for 44503@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 09 Jun 2021 07:51:37 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:40078) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lqwk7-0008CT-R0; Wed, 09 Jun 2021 07:51:31 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:1434 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lqwk7-0004Wf-Dl; Wed, 09 Jun 2021 07:51:31 -0400 Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2021 14:51:15 +0300 Message-Id: <835yyndznw.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <8735trmkdl.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Wed, 09 Jun 2021 11:56:38 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#44503: 27.1; image-scroll-up and image-scroll-down References: <47686.12087.468202.24486@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <835z6h6ved.fsf@gnu.org> <41096.42019.863060.24489@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <87mts3s2ho.fsf@gnus.org> <36339.58287.924793.24767@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <8735trmkdl.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 44503 Cc: 44503@debbugs.gnu.org, winkler@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: 44503@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii > Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2021 11:56:38 +0200 > > "Roland Winkler" writes: > > > I am sorry, I haven't had as much progress as I had wanted to. I > > realized that the discrepancy between documented behavior and actual > > code exists in a larger number of commands than I had expected. So > > the question becomes: for how many commands do we want to include a > > remark in the docstring saying that due to historical reasons they > > call prefix-numeric-value not in their interactive specs, but > > scroll_command calls prefix_numeric_value in its body, which defines > > how these commands interpret the argument. (The actual wording in the > > docstrings should probably be different.) > > > > I guess for the built-in functions scroll-up and scroll-down as well > > as image-scroll-up and image-scroll-down it is most important to > > mention this and we could leave the docstrings of other commands > > untouched. What do you think? > > Well, the doc strings for these commands don't really describe > interactive usage at all, but I think most people would interpret what's > there as "it's like (interactive "p"), but with no prefix at all it > behaves differently". (Which is what it does -- a full screen instead > of a line.) What about the value of '-' ? > Stating this explicitly in the doc strings of these four commands would > be nice. So something like: > > Interactively, giving this command a numerical prefix will scroll by > that many lines. Without a prefix, scroll by a full screen. Btw, the doc strings also use both N and ARG, but should only use N. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jun 10 04:20:04 2021 Received: (at 44503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jun 2021 08:20:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35409 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lrFv2-0000cD-7N for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 10 Jun 2021 04:20:04 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:46220) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lrFuz-0000be-2e for 44503@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 10 Jun 2021 04:20:02 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=0O7Kc/xLwRULhYSKHH3aH0Bs049dBF/OPFt5zLNzQWw=; b=fwSXfF70yEUhJMPDJcph3z/aD/ vefnSt7Ba9TfnRTx9ICHtXpZZjZEK1oal0xiTLBPLxEa19Q2eadHBEUccEdQWLJSbAORo+xiJdIfr ZOLsFI6fZomdQ6kZa+b426Yzg44SsR+CEbbN+mzSrAV7pUAhrHm0kDvUQxNzkFucGfdA=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lrFuq-000733-3p; Thu, 10 Jun 2021 10:19:54 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#44503: 27.1; image-scroll-up and image-scroll-down References: <47686.12087.468202.24486@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <835z6h6ved.fsf@gnu.org> <41096.42019.863060.24489@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <87mts3s2ho.fsf@gnus.org> <36339.58287.924793.24767@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <8735trmkdl.fsf@gnus.org> <835yyndznw.fsf@gnu.org> X-Now-Playing: Derek Baron's _Curtain_: "excerpt of Curtain" Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2021 10:19:51 +0200 In-Reply-To: <835yyndznw.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 09 Jun 2021 14:51:15 +0300") Message-ID: <87bl8eb07s.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Well, the doc strings for these commands don't really describe >> interactive usage at all, but I think most people would interpret what's >> there as "it's like (interactive "p"), but with no pref [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 44503 Cc: 44503@debbugs.gnu.org, winkler@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Well, the doc strings for these commands don't really describe >> interactive usage at all, but I think most people would interpret what's >> there as "it's like (interactive "p"), but with no prefix at all it >> behaves differently". (Which is what it does -- a full screen instead >> of a line.) > > What about the value of '-' ? Yes, `C-u -' here does the opposite of the non-prefixed action. (While it's indistinguishable from `C-u - 1' with normal "p" action.) -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jun 10 08:52:58 2021 Received: (at 44503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jun 2021 12:52:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35777 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lrKB8-0005lC-46 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 10 Jun 2021 08:52:58 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:48750) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lrKB5-0005kw-GD for 44503@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 10 Jun 2021 08:52:57 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=EtFsIEhsmkJkchc1eSIte2UgzSNnPvJzB44WPC/6Fn8=; b=ns293rqYoKrqzwu975LE9JCebX HIxULaGOPVHGZ+W8o7hbuIwRf+aUJCGa8t607nJ3UydU9CxavdolX2nak55fjHK6NN9DI5FxaRl2U w/f97nGTOD47XkcqEVpt3g3nUWtPaUa1F08xvqYYbiqCKvI5pbFVTxRZTomXrejyiZqA=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lrKAw-0001RV-2W; Thu, 10 Jun 2021 14:52:48 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#44503: 27.1; image-scroll-up and image-scroll-down References: <47686.12087.468202.24486@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <835z6h6ved.fsf@gnu.org> <41096.42019.863060.24489@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <87mts3s2ho.fsf@gnus.org> <36339.58287.924793.24767@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <8735trmkdl.fsf@gnus.org> <835yyndznw.fsf@gnu.org> <87bl8eb07s.fsf@gnus.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAFVBMVEUPCw0rJSBDRTBR UE+sq6x6nSf///9UElfuAAAAAWJLR0QGYWa4fQAAAAd0SU1FB+UGCgwxLeA4l/YAAAGiSURBVDjL dVRbcsMgDESdHkDC038Dw79tegNzgs7k/lepXtgkaf0RbIR2VyuREP59YtQlHbocDfn3u5/yI69w nkGXvvHSe38DQArIAT4GRyt7CMtuwE2+etv/5u3ttDPHFpbV9ogfDogUwuns0vacjCOWzXZK4yQg hZKAZ4BA8Eei7AHIWeBjUZKYEoXBQZIDdyKaKqDV1GSJxBzzKJBV6I4iAobJEgpDDnNcgbFj7toX LfKapp0Q1ST4vOuIDaeMKOTF3VBeQwRYJ68QLlVAm2CUicPaogFpGkp88tiLHk0NL/7M7WDyghJm KJorG3LdP2uUZi6HBbaxfykNVwDmktkg7lTy5qiQpSnsx55yTpoMpeX9RdxAhdv2uF4BaPwc0uw7 MCQ8zycOHe1oMqL73EjLQH6U51atrzodQy4PSxa4edLMElbiVoNNDNlRjpN3yAcOoqmTHUQnN6h0 I+rkg4+5TypzbF4bPV0pBCb5qj9SoF4puq4Br/XxuDgWR9S7XVO9vUKvnAhCJf4fIb1WwyspsKw1 16lDkwThePHcjjDeL+ygNWjxk0OdAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIxLTA2LTEwVDEyOjQ5 OjQ1KzAwOjAwZiPvSgAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMS0wNi0xMFQxMjo0OTo0NSswMDow MBd+V/YAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: DJ Zinc's _Jungle Is Massive (3)_: "On Fire Tonight" Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2021 14:52:45 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87bl8eb07s.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Thu, 10 Jun 2021 10:19:51 +0200") Message-ID: <871r99c25e.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > Eli Zaretskii writes: > >>> Well, the doc strings for these commands don't really describe >>> interactive usage at all, but I think most people would interpret what's >>> there as "i [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 44503 Cc: 44503@debbugs.gnu.org, winkler@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > Eli Zaretskii writes: > >>> Well, the doc strings for these commands don't really describe >>> interactive usage at all, but I think most people would interpret what's >>> there as "it's like (interactive "p"), but with no prefix at all it >>> behaves differently". (Which is what it does -- a full screen instead >>> of a line.) >> >> What about the value of '-' ? > > Yes, `C-u -' here does the opposite of the non-prefixed action. (While > it's indistinguishable from `C-u - 1' with normal "p" action.) Just a thought -- should we perhaps establish a convention for this that we can say commands adhere to? That is, `C-u NUM' means "the same as 'p'" while `C-u -' and no prefix means "some large (negative and positive; depending on the command) amount"? I'm not sure how many of these commands we have... -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jun 10 10:24:23 2021 Received: (at 44503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jun 2021 14:24:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37517 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lrLbb-0008NZ-7a for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 10 Jun 2021 10:24:23 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:33772) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lrLbY-0008NI-T8 for 44503@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 10 Jun 2021 10:24:21 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:52370) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lrLbT-0003VS-Hb; Thu, 10 Jun 2021 10:24:15 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:4505 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lrLbT-000561-3b; Thu, 10 Jun 2021 10:24:15 -0400 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2021 17:24:02 +0300 Message-Id: <83zgvxbxx9.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <871r99c25e.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Thu, 10 Jun 2021 14:52:45 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#44503: 27.1; image-scroll-up and image-scroll-down References: <47686.12087.468202.24486@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <835z6h6ved.fsf@gnu.org> <41096.42019.863060.24489@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <87mts3s2ho.fsf@gnus.org> <36339.58287.924793.24767@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <8735trmkdl.fsf@gnus.org> <835yyndznw.fsf@gnu.org> <87bl8eb07s.fsf@gnus.org> <871r99c25e.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 44503 Cc: 44503@debbugs.gnu.org, winkler@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: 44503@debbugs.gnu.org, winkler@gnu.org > Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2021 14:52:45 +0200 > > Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > > >> What about the value of '-' ? > > > > Yes, `C-u -' here does the opposite of the non-prefixed action. (While > > it's indistinguishable from `C-u - 1' with normal "p" action.) > > Just a thought -- should we perhaps establish a convention for this that > we can say commands adhere to? That is, `C-u NUM' means "the same as > 'p'" while `C-u -' and no prefix means "some large (negative and > positive; depending on the command) amount"? I'm not sure how many of > these commands we have... I'm not sure I follow: what are you trying to improve/fix/change by that, apart of the doc strings? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jun 10 11:09:31 2021 Received: (at 44503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jun 2021 15:09:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37567 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lrMJG-00015D-KK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 10 Jun 2021 11:09:30 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:50246) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lrMJF-00014z-6C for 44503@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 10 Jun 2021 11:09:29 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=dOiCxipCogmV+1W1hDT5I/4aboiKF9jCliYibBcpf1Q=; b=M16xkH9n3UA/g3sEg/JandGjM0 PFBotTsC0b+U1v7sEyduvIC9lr+YkogRxaXcq7FEqzgBDcv6TsorcRoSg9NrUYrO5mlCRy1PGUVXR wWuSXVlrjhUBuLKk2X4hyqwr4GISmjjE4jku/12eCF2CsphNheMUJh03Ht8wCwPrPO8g=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lrMJ6-0002nZ-BB; Thu, 10 Jun 2021 17:09:22 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#44503: 27.1; image-scroll-up and image-scroll-down References: <47686.12087.468202.24486@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <835z6h6ved.fsf@gnu.org> <41096.42019.863060.24489@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <87mts3s2ho.fsf@gnus.org> <36339.58287.924793.24767@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <8735trmkdl.fsf@gnus.org> <835yyndznw.fsf@gnu.org> <87bl8eb07s.fsf@gnus.org> <871r99c25e.fsf@gnus.org> <83zgvxbxx9.fsf@gnu.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAFVBMVEUQEQ1dWkHZ06eF ek2qnmfGt3X////H4MKYAAAAAWJLR0QGYWa4fQAAAAd0SU1FB+UGCg8FAvKF5wEAAAGQSURBVDjL bdNNWsMgEAZg0AuE0h5ADPvmIe5tO+wVmftfxfkJEVJ5XEReZ74JQWMmY8xLeFrGLD4tJ36coQzg aDHMi4dcOuBWDDdHUDswzk8MzkHtSgg8XE8lzPacESF2kATebHqspe4DMKwKzvlc4d7AJoAbAw1n LjPkv3G9WzjD2cXl2AGvC3Ve7EpDFdxbCWAon9YBYICxguBrskBSjxXh/fqaVoAjUPrDMxwz6Hfw 1Kp/wQY/ngpyGCo+GOYFGMoTBDpdOhHsIWORT8gRcQT5u+F7dBUhUsY+ruuAS8ZD3FoF4HSdS1uB AqfnSM/0QzCNgPQcD4C0v4M31z0DZVEGt3JbBSVGhcIZxdhJgUpiRcy46Z6Bmk0fRLBB5l6V973k 52LMALkN1lUgg/RvQOOuEqKvVytdlZy1QgA1mnYVrFz4I9y7irqdVN0y+F/tP9BxN5C9ioepoFXI SWpG4h1YJZzfhq5XB+c2VQfcox5A1mOALOB4XoEELQO0ldFW33zZIcs3oUukrRhuLvXwCxo11DBD VYD2AAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIxLTA2LTEwVDE1OjA1OjAyKzAwOjAw8FhKagAAACV0 RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMS0wNi0xMFQxNTowNTowMiswMDowMIEF8tYAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Everything But The Girl's _Five Fathoms_: "Club 69 Future Club Mix" Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2021 17:09:19 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83zgvxbxx9.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 10 Jun 2021 17:24:02 +0300") Message-ID: <87wnr1ah9c.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: > I'm not sure I follow: what are you trying to improve/fix/change by > that, apart of the doc strings? Doc strings mostly -- if we had a section in the lispref manual that explains this, we could have the doc strings just refer to that. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 44503 Cc: 44503@debbugs.gnu.org, winkler@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: > I'm not sure I follow: what are you trying to improve/fix/change by > that, apart of the doc strings? Doc strings mostly -- if we had a section in the lispref manual that explains this, we could have the doc strings just refer to that. But if it's a common pattern, perhaps there could be a new `interactive' spec -- (interactive "p-but-not-quite") -- but I'm not sure how that would look, and I wonder whether anybody has any ideas here. If it's always "like 'p' but an entire page if the prefix isn't numerical", then that would be a win (and the four commands discussed here fit that pattern), but I'm not sure how prevalent this pattern is, so it may not be worth it. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jun 10 11:34:05 2021 Received: (at 44503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jun 2021 15:34:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37587 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lrMh3-0003sF-5D for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 10 Jun 2021 11:34:05 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:57686) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lrMgz-0003ri-8g for 44503@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 10 Jun 2021 11:34:03 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:55056) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lrMgt-0006tf-AZ; Thu, 10 Jun 2021 11:33:55 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:4875 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lrMgs-0006q3-MT; Thu, 10 Jun 2021 11:33:55 -0400 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2021 18:33:43 +0300 Message-Id: <83r1h9bup4.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87wnr1ah9c.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Thu, 10 Jun 2021 17:09:19 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#44503: 27.1; image-scroll-up and image-scroll-down References: <47686.12087.468202.24486@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <835z6h6ved.fsf@gnu.org> <41096.42019.863060.24489@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <87mts3s2ho.fsf@gnus.org> <36339.58287.924793.24767@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <8735trmkdl.fsf@gnus.org> <835yyndznw.fsf@gnu.org> <87bl8eb07s.fsf@gnus.org> <871r99c25e.fsf@gnus.org> <83zgvxbxx9.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnr1ah9c.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 44503 Cc: 44503@debbugs.gnu.org, winkler@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: 44503@debbugs.gnu.org, winkler@gnu.org > Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2021 17:09:19 +0200 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > I'm not sure I follow: what are you trying to improve/fix/change by > > that, apart of the doc strings? > > Doc strings mostly -- if we had a section in the lispref manual that > explains this, we could have the doc strings just refer to that. I'm not sure it's worth it. Describing what "C-u -" does is usually easy and doesn't take too many words. > If it's always "like 'p' but an entire page if the prefix isn't > numerical", then that would be a win (and the four commands discussed > here fit that pattern), but I'm not sure how prevalent this pattern is, > so it may not be worth it. Not all the commands that react to "C-u -" work on stuff where "page" is meaningful, I think. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jun 12 08:11:31 2021 Received: (at 44503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jun 2021 12:11:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40467 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ls2U6-0004Oa-Sh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2021 08:11:31 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:41606) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ls2U5-0004ON-7A for 44503@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2021 08:11:29 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=ZkB4GMi9J62vj0cmF+cKMe+qWsJt6n8QaxYtFKcmoCo=; b=trPwlInVLMagMqYi6PNOF/jp+j YKwZDteD0C2g2J6GqOTZB3BFDMqN/32R0FUfLGtZKjZnzi4jaO6HMu/ByWRSFOi0ZuwG8cVIdmCCK Y0nHqSiXQyPH6PdKQR+MMQw9oq9Oiyc18EA9mS0NI+oQYpViF4XzE15QbCQlVGQ8z6vQ=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ls2Tx-0005SS-H3; Sat, 12 Jun 2021 14:11:23 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#44503: 27.1; image-scroll-up and image-scroll-down References: <47686.12087.468202.24486@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <835z6h6ved.fsf@gnu.org> <41096.42019.863060.24489@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <87mts3s2ho.fsf@gnus.org> <36339.58287.924793.24767@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <8735trmkdl.fsf@gnus.org> <835yyndznw.fsf@gnu.org> <87bl8eb07s.fsf@gnus.org> <871r99c25e.fsf@gnus.org> <83zgvxbxx9.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnr1ah9c.fsf@gnus.org> <83r1h9bup4.fsf@gnu.org> X-Now-Playing: Colored Music's _Individual Beauty_: "De To Re Mi" Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2021 14:11:21 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83r1h9bup4.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 10 Jun 2021 18:33:43 +0300") Message-ID: <87y2bf8eqe.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: > I'm not sure it's worth it. Describing what "C-u -" does is usually > easy and doesn't take too many words. Yeah, if it's just these four commands, it's not worth it. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 44503 Cc: 44503@debbugs.gnu.org, winkler@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: > I'm not sure it's worth it. Describing what "C-u -" does is usually > easy and doesn't take too many words. Yeah, if it's just these four commands, it's not worth it. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 07 09:06:42 2022 Received: (at 44503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 May 2022 13:06:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50764 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nnK8w-0002w8-8x for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 07 May 2022 09:06:42 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:48062) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nnK8t-0002vq-8R for 44503@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 07 May 2022 09:06:40 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=WiC1YEjLyQasQOsf2aXVS4KXYVcqe/GeR/MOBujUVjs=; b=r2KfgsxhY+WTGkl6Z0rM+XTxW7 zRH4L4tkkr/enf7DsBa2qas0n4vl19Kuqni6M5fCp11yA9lM0TTEIosFWFZydAka9aVf1wDM20QI2 RU/2PqjSrlkVdIeKz/H3dXdAa5tkUXBaNhoaA+sPcXpKsEsjBBZU5BfEs3th5zVAhoAM=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nnK8k-0002zl-JF; Sat, 07 May 2022 15:06:32 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#44503: 27.1; image-scroll-up and image-scroll-down References: <47686.12087.468202.24486@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <835z6h6ved.fsf@gnu.org> <41096.42019.863060.24489@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <87mts3s2ho.fsf@gnus.org> <36339.58287.924793.24767@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <8735trmkdl.fsf@gnus.org> <835yyndznw.fsf@gnu.org> X-Now-Playing: Prince's _Sign 'O' the Times (6): Vault Tracks III_: "Wonderful Day (12" Mix)" Date: Sat, 07 May 2022 15:06:29 +0200 In-Reply-To: <835yyndznw.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 09 Jun 2021 14:51:15 +0300") Message-ID: <87bkw9o5ka.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Well, the doc strings for these commands don't really describe >> interactive usage at all, but I think most people would interpret what's >> there as "it's like (interactive "p"), but with no pref [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 44503 Cc: 44503@debbugs.gnu.org, winkler@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Well, the doc strings for these commands don't really describe >> interactive usage at all, but I think most people would interpret what's >> there as "it's like (interactive "p"), but with no prefix at all it >> behaves differently". (Which is what it does -- a full screen instead >> of a line.) > > What about the value of '-' ? > >> Stating this explicitly in the doc strings of these four commands would >> be nice. So something like: >> >> Interactively, giving this command a numerical prefix will scroll by >> that many lines. Without a prefix, scroll by a full screen. > > Btw, the doc strings also use both N and ARG, but should only use N. I think I've now fixed all of this in the affected for doc strings in Emacs 29. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 07 09:06:44 2022 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 May 2022 13:06:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50767 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nnK8y-0002wM-GM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 07 May 2022 09:06:44 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:48076) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nnK8y-0002vy-3B for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 07 May 2022 09:06:44 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=8kj1dRRMAKK7UOuzVplzMIYOTQII5Y2WwYumd52D2VI=; b=uOvSLf1g05d11Wr/meFCdv3lwJ +7N6kiD6UEj+/93sOPczYlRy1YYmR2+fwyTdrCG+3/NQUOhR/k9vBedYpq0gsuYZpS8g4WL+rUfJH 8csvTeM3klS7yyj9I8ilEBoVdTrUHr1S570jBSkoN2EKP/0h/bATVi+eRXult/Cpn8rs=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nnK8q-0002zv-Ea for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 07 May 2022 15:06:38 +0200 Date: Sat, 07 May 2022 15:06:35 +0200 Message-Id: <87a6bto5k4.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #44503 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: close 44503 29.1 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) close 44503 29.1 quit From unknown Mon Jun 23 16:47:14 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2022 11:24:04 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator