From unknown Sun Sep 07 13:10:15 2025 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#4433: 23.1; dolist vs dolist Reply-To: "Drew Adams" , 4433@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs 2Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 19:25:05 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 4433 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.125295579227437 (code B ref -1); Mon, 14 Sep 2009 19:25:05 +0000 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 14 Sep 2009 19:16:32 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=4.0 tests=AWL,FOURLA autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n8EJGVnD027427 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:16:32 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MnH2M-000336-If for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Sep 2009 15:16:30 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MnH2H-0002x3-CI for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Sep 2009 15:16:29 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=34806 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MnH2H-0002wr-7L for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Sep 2009 15:16:25 -0400 Received: from rcsinet11.oracle.com ([148.87.113.123]:33489 helo=rgminet11.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MnH2G-0003E2-Tp for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Sep 2009 15:16:25 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rgminet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n8EJH16J025104 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2009 19:17:02 GMT Received: from abhmt014.oracle.com (abhmt014.oracle.com [141.146.116.23]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n8EJGYnA018872 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2009 19:16:35 GMT Received: from dradamslap1 (/141.144.64.128) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:16:15 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:16:27 -0700 Message-ID: <54A8F211D3B841548475B66901164574@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Aco1b9tm/DkaLSxwR6eTwWTq56sGzA== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Source-IP: abhmt014.oracle.com [141.146.116.23] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090207.4AAE9680.0018:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) The doc strings for the `dolist' defined in emacs -Q and the `dolist' defined in cl-macs.el are the same. However, the two `dolist's are not the same. At the very least, the doc string for the CL version should mention `return-from' and any other features that it offers and which are not available for the vanilla `dolist'. And the doc string for the vanilla `dolist' should mention that it is not the same as the `dolist' of Common Lisp. Even more important is to document this in the Elisp manual. State clearly that `dolist' (the one provided by Emacs, without cl.el) is not the same as the `dolist' of Common Lisp or the `dolist' of cl.el, both of which support `return-from', and so on. The use of the same name by Emacs for a very different function (macro) is confusing and error prone. The least we can do is point this out in the doc. Note that we do say this in node Catch and Throw: "Common Lisp note: Most other versions of Lisp, including Common Lisp, have several ways of transferring control nonsequentially: `return', `return-from', and `go', for example. Emacs Lisp has only `throw'." A similar note is called for wherever Emacs has a function or macro with the same name as one from Common Lisp, whenever there is a significant difference in behavior. In GNU Emacs 23.1.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2009-07-29 on SOFT-MJASON Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (4.4)' From rgm@gnu.org Wed Nov 4 14:01:42 2009 Received: (at control) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 4 Nov 2009 22:01:42 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.8 required=4.0 tests=AWL,ONEWORD,VALID_BTS_CONTROL autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id nA4M1e7A002782 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2009 14:01:42 -0800 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1N5nv9-0000E4-Ub; Wed, 04 Nov 2009 17:01:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19185.63939.653937.427902@fencepost.gnu.org> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 17:01:39 -0500 From: Glenn Morris To: control Subject: control severity 3631 minor severity 3267 minor reassign 3267 emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com severity 3481 minor severity 3644 minor severity 3722 wishlist severity 4360 minor tags 3613 wontfix tags 2134 = severity 4731 minor severity 3849 wishlist close 3564 merge 4668 3227 tags 2792 wontfix minor severity 4433 minor severity 4668 minor severity 4562 minor severity 3934 minor severity 3856 minor severity 3801 minor severity 3615 minor severity 3599 minor severity 3598 minor severity 3575 minor severity 3566 minor severity 3550 minor severity 3549 minor severity 3527 minor severity 3525 minor severity 3524 minor severity 3523 minor severity 3519 minor severity 3509 minor severity 3503 minor severity 3393 minor severity 3371 minor severity 3320 minor severity 3313 minor severity 3249 minor severity 3227 minor severity 3138 minor severity 3135 minor severity 3137 minor severity 3052 minor severity 3042 minor severity 2974 minor severity 2946 minor severity 2792 minor severity 1749 minor severity 1375 minor severity 1144 minor From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 13 08:59:08 2011 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jul 2011 12:59:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qgz1w-0006Qu-1m for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 08:59:08 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qgz1s-0006QP-Ra for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 08:59:06 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=quimbies.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Qgz1g-0007Ii-Ta for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 14:58:52 +0200 Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 14:58:52 +0200 Message-Id: To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #4433 X-MailScanner-ID: 1Qgz1g-0007Ii-Ta X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1311166733.54615@WN6+B2bdCDnc5cExt7qKCw X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) tags 4433 wontfix close 4433 From unknown Sun Sep 07 13:10:15 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#4433: 23.1; dolist vs dolist Resent-From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 13:09:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 4433 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix To: "Drew Adams" Cc: 4433@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 4433-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B4433.131056251925593 (code B ref 4433); Wed, 13 Jul 2011 13:09:02 +0000 Received: (at 4433) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jul 2011 13:08:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QgzB8-0006ek-S0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 09:08:39 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QgzB6-0006eW-4Q for 4433@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 09:08:37 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=quimbies.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QgzAq-0007dZ-1j; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 15:08:20 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <54A8F211D3B841548475B66901164574@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:16:27 -0700") Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 14:58:46 +0200 Message-ID: References: <54A8F211D3B841548475B66901164574@us.oracle.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-Now-Playing: Talking Heads's _77_: "First Week; Last Week... Carefree" X-Hashcash: 1:23:110713:drew.adams@oracle.com::1ocN5W/UNAbaB9Cu:0000000000000000000000000000000000000001MDFB X-Hashcash: 1:23:110713:4433@debbugs.gnu.org::vJAPME00VJ6jnVBy:00000000000000000000000000000000000000002QV57 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1QgzAq-0007dZ-1j X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1311167300.25143@lfyv51yx37Eqn5OXp9bXoQ X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) "Drew Adams" writes: > Even more important is to document this in the Elisp manual. State > clearly that `dolist' (the one provided by Emacs, without cl.el) is > not the same as the `dolist' of Common Lisp or the `dolist' of cl.el, > both of which support `return-from', and so on. If you have a definition of `return-from', then you have the cl.el `dolist', so I don't really see the point. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From unknown Sun Sep 07 13:10:15 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#4433: 23.1; dolist vs dolist Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 21:27:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 4433 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix To: "'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen'" Cc: 4433@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 4433-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B4433.13106788158378 (code B ref 4433); Thu, 14 Jul 2011 21:27:01 +0000 Received: (at 4433) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jul 2011 21:26:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QhTQt-0002B5-EI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 17:26:55 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QhTQs-0002Ah-Em for 4433@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 17:26:55 -0400 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p6ELQk97028751 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 14 Jul 2011 21:26:48 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p6ELQjIX024266 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 14 Jul 2011 21:26:46 GMT Received: from abhmt102.oracle.com (abhmt102.oracle.com [141.146.116.54]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p6ELQeVl002607; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 16:26:40 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 14:26:40 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" References: <54A8F211D3B841548475B66901164574@us.oracle.com> Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 14:26:40 -0700 Message-ID: <9695EBD72AB847DFB476D5DBECB7DBD0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcxBXf473Bw51RqqQA6JEKiSA6kmTwAAiYzgAEMeQlA= X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090203.4E1F5F18.0065:SCFMA922111,ss=1,re=-4.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -4.3 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.3 (----) > From: Drew Adams Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 6:30 AM > > > If you have a definition of `return-from', then you have the cl.el > > `dolist', so I don't really see the point. > > I don't see _your_ point. There is no need to check > `return-from'. `C-h f' also tells you which you have, by > referring to the source file. > > That's not the point. > > These two macros have the same name. > These two macros have the same doc. > > These two macros have different behavior. > > This difference, with no corresponding difference in doc or > name, is a proven source of confusion. > > It's probably too late to make the names different and > correct the bad design. > > The doc should distinguish them, carefully and clearly, even > explicitly averting users to the possible confusion (gotcha). From unknown Sun Sep 07 13:10:15 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#4433: 23.1; dolist vs dolist Resent-From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2011 18:51:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 4433 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix To: "Drew Adams" Cc: 4433@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 4433-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B4433.131231106129413 (code B ref 4433); Tue, 02 Aug 2011 18:51:02 +0000 Received: (at 4433) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Aug 2011 18:51:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QoK3Q-0007eM-TN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 14:51:01 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QoK3N-0007eD-NJ for 4433@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 14:50:58 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=stories.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QoK2n-00073y-7f; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 20:50:21 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <9695EBD72AB847DFB476D5DBECB7DBD0@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Thu, 14 Jul 2011 14:26:40 -0700") Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2011 20:49:50 +0200 Message-ID: References: <54A8F211D3B841548475B66901164574@us.oracle.com> <9695EBD72AB847DFB476D5DBECB7DBD0@us.oracle.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-Now-Playing: The Wolfgang Press's _Kansas_ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1QoK2n-00073y-7f X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1312915821.30834@h7LT3r3Y8BGNNec8qaaFDw X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) I've now mentioned the block in the cl-macs dolist. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Aug 02 14:50:56 2011 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Aug 2011 18:50:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QoK3M-0007e7-G3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 14:50:56 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QoK3I-0007dw-13 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 14:50:54 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=stories.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QoK2i-00073q-0e for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 20:50:16 +0200 Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2011 20:49:53 +0200 Message-Id: To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #4433 X-MailScanner-ID: 1QoK2i-00073q-0e X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1312915816.08383@p70Q1W2wnywINb50zk5eEg X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) tags 4433 fixed close 4433 24.1