From unknown Wed Aug 20 05:16:12 2025 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#4419: 23.1.50; Emacs manual "Invoking `emacsclient'" is unclear Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii , 4419@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs 2Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 10:30:04 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 4419 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.12527509508317 (code B ref -1); Sat, 12 Sep 2009 10:30:04 +0000 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 12 Sep 2009 10:22:30 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=4.0 tests=AWL,FOURLA autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n8CAMTVJ008314 for ; Sat, 12 Sep 2009 03:22:30 -0700 Received: from mx10.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:58386) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MmPkS-00039g-Iy for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2009 06:22:28 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MmPkQ-0004Ij-5S for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2009 06:22:28 -0400 Received: from mtaout2.012.net.il ([84.95.2.4]:50875) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MmPkP-0004Ia-IB for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2009 06:22:26 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.i_mtaout2.012.net.il by i_mtaout2.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2004.12) id <0KPU00B00SMZQW00@i_mtaout2.012.net.il> for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2009 13:22:23 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.228.50.163]) by i_mtaout2.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2004.12) with ESMTPA id <0KPU00D9WSTBRHE0@i_mtaout2.012.net.il> for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2009 13:22:23 +0300 (IDT) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 13:22:23 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org Message-id: <83vdjozcm8.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 9.1 Please write in English if possible, because the Emacs maintainers usually do not have translators to read other languages for them. Your bug report will be posted to the emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org mailing list. Please describe exactly what actions triggered the bug and the precise symptoms of the bug: "(emacs) Invoking emacsclient" says: The simplest way to use the `emacsclient' program is to run the shell command `emacsclient FILE', where FILE is a file name. This connects to an Emacs server, and tells that Emacs process to visit FILE in one of its existing frames--either a graphical frame, or one in a text-only terminal (*note Frames::). You can then select that frame to begin editing. If there is no Emacs server, the `emacsclient' program halts with an error message. If the Emacs process has no existing frame--which can happen if it was started as a daemon (*note Emacs Server::)--then Emacs opens a frame on the terminal in which you called `emacsclient', as though you had used the `-t' option (*note emacsclient Options::). On a graphical display, switching to the Emacs server is straightforward--just select its (system-level) window. If you are using a text-only terminal, there are two ways to switch between `emacsclient''s shell and the Emacs server: (i) run the Emacs server and `emacsclient' on different virtual terminals, and switch to the Emacs server's virtual terminal after calling `emacsclient'; or (ii) call `emacsclient' from within the Emacs server itself, using Shell mode (*note Interactive Shell::) or Term mode (*note Term Mode::); `emacsclient' blocks only the subshell under Emacs, and you can still use Emacs to edit the file. This description has several problems: . The last paragraph explains how to ``switch to the Emacs server''. It does not explain what does it mean, nor why would the user want to do that, after invoking emacsclient. I'm guessing this text wants to tell how to switch to an existing frame where FILE is displayed; if this is true, the text should say that explicitly, since ``switching to the server'' is not something the user would necessarily think of as useful. In particular, the first paragraph correctly says ``you can then select that frame to begin editing'', so the last paragraph should pick up the same wording to indicate to the reader that it continues where the 1st left off. . AFAIU, if emacsclient is invoked with -t, the file will be displayed on the same terminal where emacsclient was invoked. This is by far more useful (and much less obscure) way of getting to the frame where FILE is displayed, so the text should mention that as well, or at least say that the next section describes this method. The last paragraph of this node, viz. If you set the variable `server-window' to a window or a frame, `C-x #' always displays the next server buffer in that window or in that frame. uses ambiguous wording: it took me a few moments to realize that by ``setting a variable to a window or a frame'' it means setting the _value_ of the variable. I would suggest rephrasing as follows: If the value of the variable `server-window' is a window or a frame, ... If Emacs crashed, and you have the Emacs process in the gdb debugger, please include the output from the following gdb commands: `bt full' and `xbacktrace'. If you would like to further debug the crash, please read the file d:/gnu/emacs/etc/DEBUG for instructions. In GNU Emacs 23.1.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2009-09-12 on HOME-C4E4A596F7 Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (3.4)' Important settings: value of $LC_ALL: nil value of $LC_COLLATE: nil value of $LC_CTYPE: nil value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil value of $LC_MONETARY: nil value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil value of $LC_TIME: nil value of $LANG: ENU value of $XMODIFIERS: nil locale-coding-system: cp1255 default enable-multibyte-characters: t Major mode: Info Minor modes in effect: tooltip-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t tool-bar-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t blink-cursor-mode: t global-auto-composition-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t line-number-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t Recent input: C-u C-h i i n f e m a c s i e m a c s c l 1 M-x r e p o r t - e m Recent messages: For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a. Found `emacsclient' in Concept Index. (3 total; use `,' for next) Load-path shadows: None found. > From: Stefan Monnier > Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 00:08:41 -0400 > > I'll leave the code as is, then. It's not like it's harmful. I commented out the call to custom-reevaluate-setting. > FWIW, I've just installed a few changes to handle such situations, which > should now be done by setting the defcustom's initializer to > custom-initialize-delay. I will add to my TODO to go through defcustoms for possible users of this facility. In general, any file name that violates DOS 8+3 limitations (e.g., starts with a period) and uses convert-standard-filename in its defcustom should use something like that, because what convert-standard-filename does depends on what the underlying filesystem, which could be different at dump time and at run time. From unknown Wed Aug 20 05:16:12 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.427 (Entity 5.427) X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (Emacs bug Tracking System) To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: bug#4419 closed by Chong Yidong (Re: 23.1.50; Emacs manual "Invoking `emacsclient'" is unclear) Message-ID: References: <87k4zvom11.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83vdjozcm8.fsf@gnu.org> X-Emacs-PR-Message: they-closed 4419 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 4419@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 23:50:12 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1253317812-29981-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1253317812-29981-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" This is an automatic notification regarding your bug report which was filed against the emacs package: #4419: 23.1.50; Emacs manual "Invoking `emacsclient'" is unclear It has been closed by Chong Yidong . Their explanation is attached below along with your original report. If this explanation is unsatisfactory and you have not received a better one in a separate message then please contact Chong Yidong by replying to this email. --=20 4419: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D4419 Emacs Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1253317812-29981-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 4419-done) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 18 Sep 2009 23:45:06 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 required=4.0 tests=AWL autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from pantheon-po32.its.yale.edu (pantheon-po32.its.yale.edu [130.132.50.88]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n8INj4B3028972 for <4419-done@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Fri, 18 Sep 2009 16:45:05 -0700 Received: from furry (dhcp128036014244.central.yale.edu [128.36.14.244]) (authenticated bits=0) by pantheon-po32.its.yale.edu (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n8INiwoq005337 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for <4419-done@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Fri, 18 Sep 2009 19:44:58 -0400 Received: by furry (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D520DC070; Fri, 18 Sep 2009 19:44:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Chong Yidong To: 4419-done@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: 23.1.50; Emacs manual "Invoking `emacsclient'" is unclear Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 19:44:58 -0400 Message-ID: <87k4zvom11.fsf@stupidchicken.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-YaleITSMailFilter: Version 1.2c (attachment(s) not renamed) I've fixed misc.texi according to the suggestions in this bug report. ------------=_1253317812-29981-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 12 Sep 2009 10:22:30 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=4.0 tests=AWL,FOURLA autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n8CAMTVJ008314 for ; Sat, 12 Sep 2009 03:22:30 -0700 Received: from mx10.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:58386) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MmPkS-00039g-Iy for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2009 06:22:28 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MmPkQ-0004Ij-5S for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2009 06:22:28 -0400 Received: from mtaout2.012.net.il ([84.95.2.4]:50875) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MmPkP-0004Ia-IB for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2009 06:22:26 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.i_mtaout2.012.net.il by i_mtaout2.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2004.12) id <0KPU00B00SMZQW00@i_mtaout2.012.net.il> for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2009 13:22:23 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.228.50.163]) by i_mtaout2.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2004.12) with ESMTPA id <0KPU00D9WSTBRHE0@i_mtaout2.012.net.il> for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2009 13:22:23 +0300 (IDT) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 13:22:23 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: 23.1.50; Emacs manual "Invoking `emacsclient'" is unclear X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org Reply-to: Eli Zaretskii Message-id: <83vdjozcm8.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 9.1 Please write in English if possible, because the Emacs maintainers usually do not have translators to read other languages for them. Your bug report will be posted to the emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org mailing list. Please describe exactly what actions triggered the bug and the precise symptoms of the bug: "(emacs) Invoking emacsclient" says: The simplest way to use the `emacsclient' program is to run the shell command `emacsclient FILE', where FILE is a file name. This connects to an Emacs server, and tells that Emacs process to visit FILE in one of its existing frames--either a graphical frame, or one in a text-only terminal (*note Frames::). You can then select that frame to begin editing. If there is no Emacs server, the `emacsclient' program halts with an error message. If the Emacs process has no existing frame--which can happen if it was started as a daemon (*note Emacs Server::)--then Emacs opens a frame on the terminal in which you called `emacsclient', as though you had used the `-t' option (*note emacsclient Options::). On a graphical display, switching to the Emacs server is straightforward--just select its (system-level) window. If you are using a text-only terminal, there are two ways to switch between `emacsclient''s shell and the Emacs server: (i) run the Emacs server and `emacsclient' on different virtual terminals, and switch to the Emacs server's virtual terminal after calling `emacsclient'; or (ii) call `emacsclient' from within the Emacs server itself, using Shell mode (*note Interactive Shell::) or Term mode (*note Term Mode::); `emacsclient' blocks only the subshell under Emacs, and you can still use Emacs to edit the file. This description has several problems: . The last paragraph explains how to ``switch to the Emacs server''. It does not explain what does it mean, nor why would the user want to do that, after invoking emacsclient. I'm guessing this text wants to tell how to switch to an existing frame where FILE is displayed; if this is true, the text should say that explicitly, since ``switching to the server'' is not something the user would necessarily think of as useful. In particular, the first paragraph correctly says ``you can then select that frame to begin editing'', so the last paragraph should pick up the same wording to indicate to the reader that it continues where the 1st left off. . AFAIU, if emacsclient is invoked with -t, the file will be displayed on the same terminal where emacsclient was invoked. This is by far more useful (and much less obscure) way of getting to the frame where FILE is displayed, so the text should mention that as well, or at least say that the next section describes this method. The last paragraph of this node, viz. If you set the variable `server-window' to a window or a frame, `C-x #' always displays the next server buffer in that window or in that frame. uses ambiguous wording: it took me a few moments to realize that by ``setting a variable to a window or a frame'' it means setting the _value_ of the variable. I would suggest rephrasing as follows: If the value of the variable `server-window' is a window or a frame, ... If Emacs crashed, and you have the Emacs process in the gdb debugger, please include the output from the following gdb commands: `bt full' and `xbacktrace'. If you would like to further debug the crash, please read the file d:/gnu/emacs/etc/DEBUG for instructions. In GNU Emacs 23.1.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2009-09-12 on HOME-C4E4A596F7 Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (3.4)' Important settings: value of $LC_ALL: nil value of $LC_COLLATE: nil value of $LC_CTYPE: nil value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil value of $LC_MONETARY: nil value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil value of $LC_TIME: nil value of $LANG: ENU value of $XMODIFIERS: nil locale-coding-system: cp1255 default enable-multibyte-characters: t Major mode: Info Minor modes in effect: tooltip-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t tool-bar-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t blink-cursor-mode: t global-auto-composition-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t line-number-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t Recent input: C-u C-h i i n f e m a c s i e m a c s c l 1 M-x r e p o r t - e m Recent messages: For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a. Found `emacsclient' in Concept Index. (3 total; use `,' for next) Load-path shadows: None found. > From: Stefan Monnier > Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 00:08:41 -0400 > > I'll leave the code as is, then. It's not like it's harmful. I commented out the call to custom-reevaluate-setting. > FWIW, I've just installed a few changes to handle such situations, which > should now be done by setting the defcustom's initializer to > custom-initialize-delay. I will add to my TODO to go through defcustoms for possible users of this facility. In general, any file name that violates DOS 8+3 limitations (e.g., starts with a period) and uses convert-standard-filename in its defcustom should use something like that, because what convert-standard-filename does depends on what the underlying filesystem, which could be different at dump time and at run time. ------------=_1253317812-29981-1--