From unknown Sat Jun 14 19:06:13 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#44078: 26.3; `tabulated-list-mode': Use it in any mode and for part of a buffer Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2020 16:04:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 44078 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 44078@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.160312341521900 (code B ref -1); Mon, 19 Oct 2020 16:04:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Oct 2020 16:03:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42091 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kUXdG-0005hA-Sr for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 19 Oct 2020 12:03:35 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:55742) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kUXdF-0005h0-9c for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; 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Mon, 19 Oct 2020 16:03:26 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 09JFxpAg147881 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2020 16:03:26 GMT Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by userp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 348acpn63h-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2020 16:03:26 +0000 Received: from abhmp0020.oracle.com (abhmp0020.oracle.com [141.146.116.26]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 09JG3P0C002328 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2020 16:03:26 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2020 09:03:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5056.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9778 signatures=668682 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=1 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2010190110 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9778 signatures=668682 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=1 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 priorityscore=1501 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 clxscore=1015 bulkscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 malwarescore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2010190110 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=156.151.31.85; envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=userp2120.oracle.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/10/19 12:03:27 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.1-3.10 [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) Feature request: I'd like to see `tabulated-list-mode' be usable for only part of a buffer. How? Dunno. Text property maybe, analogous to property `keymap'? One of its greatest weaknesses is that it's (only) a major mode. It's buffer-wide, which means you can't do anything else in the buffer. You can't use `tabulated-list-mode' for just some table(s) (tabulated info) within a buffer. This greatly limits its usefulness, IMO. In the beginning, IIRC, there was only the major mode `outline-mode'. Later we added `outline-minor-mode'. That at least took care of the problem of not being able to use it with another major mode. But for `tabulated-list-mode' I think we need more than just to add a minor-mode version. We really need a way to confine its effect to a part of a buffer. In GNU Emacs 26.3 (build 1, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2019-08-29 Repository revision: 96dd0196c28bc36779584e47fffcca433c9309cd Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 10.0.18362 Configured using: `configure --without-dbus --host=3Dx86_64-w64-mingw32 --without-compress-install 'CFLAGS=3D-O2 -static -g3'' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Oct 19 12:49:37 2020 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Oct 2020 16:49:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42193 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kUYLp-0006vz-0A for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 19 Oct 2020 12:49:37 -0400 Received: from mail-ej1-f42.google.com ([209.85.218.42]:37518) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kUYLn-0006vi-AF for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 19 Oct 2020 12:49:35 -0400 Received: by mail-ej1-f42.google.com with SMTP id e22so34328ejr.4 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2020 09:49:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=sREMLiIb6TS+FyuXNuJXj/erS181NeVlvCBAyHEYe5Y=; b=sQ2+zAuDbLz1vDrbnEhtg1YJl8tZBLmp4M28myobuB4XRKEygcRqvjm67m7YoKVofY ldO5j3TbTTEiNDMy5c4LOd+R3jKbExmgVvIuHmn9JvWnKbksBFaaz2qPm+BXMu0mO7IL vS4K8+RtQ0kLLqvBk2ifFf1VcmjGA7SEfIKzsjYsSkm+Hnw0tpFWkH7YZOH8huZb38jt 2R+CdQ6M+Z+iNDdIwj57AkCc0xh2CQw+aMDR9iUCDsFK/g6d6jysUYTPOsxOcg/2ncKF FdzXjo4gYZ+m1p6BYIv7EDAVTD/1ac6yrn6Qt9RoNd+eVP1FGx1W47sQ3fOcc8Xf0z77 WPPg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530wYze07FkFr+nUhcHcLJvZnnExDquJccQqOdGBz8MIv0HXdyRJ 3j2FCo2q6UpBtjY4iGHVu1cQdqM4MhMm8fbks9uLPJyg X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwsDc9IimVo0ozSgWwwaVviAOUfcgUthKZLLZijGd6P8j/3NHNxHnnsemSgE1GIMMKn40gJUfraZJzSoQf0ZCM= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:3e4b:: with SMTP id t11mr777163eji.420.1603126168922; Mon, 19 Oct 2020 09:49:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Mon, 19 Oct 2020 16:49:28 +0000 From: Stefan Kangas MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2020 16:49:28 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. 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Content preview: severity 44078 wishlist thanks Content analysis details: (1.5 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [209.85.218.42 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3 RBL: Good reputation (+3) [209.85.218.42 listed in wl.mailspike.net] 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (stefankangas[at]gmail.com) 0.2 HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS From and EnvelopeFrom 2nd level mail domains are different 2.0 BLANK_SUBJECT Subject is present but empty -1.0 MAILING_LIST_MULTI Multiple indicators imply a widely-seen list manager 0.2 FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN 2nd level domains in From and EnvelopeFrom freemail headers are different 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL Mailspike good senders 0.0 UNPARSEABLE_RELAY Informational: message has unparseable relay lines severity 44078 wishlist thanks From unknown Sat Jun 14 19:06:13 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#44078: 26.3; `tabulated-list-mode': Use it in any mode and for part of a buffer Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2020 11:36:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 44078 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 44078@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 44078-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B44078.16031937258971 (code B ref 44078); Tue, 20 Oct 2020 11:36:02 +0000 Received: (at 44078) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Oct 2020 11:35:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43784 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kUpvJ-0002Kd-0j for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 20 Oct 2020 07:35:25 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:45466) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kUpvH-0002KM-1Q for 44078@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 20 Oct 2020 07:35:23 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=pdMybkYK54cn6eA+zag6cy4QKUWzWMKvZKf4G0m/eeo=; b=lkL3A69D2KPqtxTlzuUkT+odKo eLaWPWlDslDjO5AK7lpMhRYzaZObRAztqd/1tfvdX4HLgsN/VWHd4lpkRKh8lN65EpI1uNU6ugosQ kOGIb+4q3wK+sNPKjDk2QibRPKtMpgJrSXmjEF8V7i6eWD1uh7LNOs6gWS5L02z7g7AI=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kUpv7-0007If-QS; Tue, 20 Oct 2020 13:35:16 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: X-Now-Playing: Christoph de Babalon's _Hectic Shakes_: "Raw Mind" Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2020 13:35:12 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 19 Oct 2020 09:03:24 -0700 (PDT)") Message-ID: <87pn5dgmfj.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Drew Adams writes: > But for `tabulated-list-mode' I think we need more than just to add a > minor-mode version. We really need a way to confine its effect to a > part of a buffer. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Drew Adams writes: > But for `tabulated-list-mode' I think we need more than just to add a > minor-mode version. We really need a way to confine its effect to a > part of a buffer. Whenever I've done some work on tabulated-list-mode, I've been kinda frustrated by its design. You'd ideally just be able to have a functional interface where you just call a function with all the data (and some commands to apply to the data), and then everything would work. But instead it's a strange mixture of functional, buffer-local data and updating functions. A side effect of this is that the table isn't an "object" you can do operations on -- there can only be one table per buffer, and it wants to control the entire buffer. So I'd welcome a more functional rewrite of tabulated-list-mode that would constrain all actions to the area of the buffer where the table is, and leave the rest of the buffer alone. And stash the table data in the table instead of using the buffer-local variables. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From unknown Sat Jun 14 19:06:13 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#44078: 26.3; `tabulated-list-mode': Use it in any mode and for part of a buffer Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2020 16:21:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 44078 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Cc: 44078@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 44078-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B44078.160321084423767 (code B ref 44078); Tue, 20 Oct 2020 16:21:02 +0000 Received: (at 44078) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Oct 2020 16:20:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46503 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kUuNQ-0006BF-0S for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 20 Oct 2020 12:20:44 -0400 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:52220) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kUuNN-0006B3-Ms for 44078@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 20 Oct 2020 12:20:42 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 09KGIn9I146211; Tue, 20 Oct 2020 16:20:34 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=Q01s3CJ1I79AkvYMm3KdOYj7xIl3+QrPkC4PZ101i4E=; b=O2nxvE+rLVIw+SoVj0gcXnivNg/95XaaM75HAiYXxEC3ZJ4RHH2RQ/Bq6bR3yD9o44G+ q9UBzF82SvDt6Um02c15iVhCwLwPUIjoTDfwTfnowlma3dWnGq0rQyTnx+q1ASwfHQm5 c/v3Y6Ct4nPZ/4MnJJEIfEXwLKjOLjhbtK85IHRUWzy02FrOcuIXVQt4qlD/wbjQRiFB HLnFhH9xBYIBnLP5YOe8v9/ctVKqUjT6tthmVKQGTedHWKF7yD9F3/MzUlJZCXEaUj3M CO1WVXd+1sXNb7CZQHkwMFKT6EW12Sqo7TYnYfglPkLlGl8EnpX5KjJZE8/zrJhUwPQE uA== Received: from userp3030.oracle.com (userp3030.oracle.com [156.151.31.80]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 349jrpm6sn-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 20 Oct 2020 16:20:34 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 09KGEu2L069795; Tue, 20 Oct 2020 16:20:34 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by userp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 348ahwfhf2-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 20 Oct 2020 16:20:33 +0000 Received: from abhmp0014.oracle.com (abhmp0014.oracle.com [141.146.116.20]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 09KGKVha030724; Tue, 20 Oct 2020 16:20:32 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <30886403-3940-456d-9d1a-5ced5a7baba6@default> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2020 09:20:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams References: <87pn5dgmfj.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: <87pn5dgmfj.fsf@gnus.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5056.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9779 signatures=668682 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2010200109 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9779 signatures=668682 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 phishscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 priorityscore=1501 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxlogscore=999 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 clxscore=1011 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2010200109 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > But for `tabulated-list-mode' I think we need more than just to add a > > minor-mode version. We really need a way to confine its effect to a > > part of a buffer. >=20 > Whenever I've done some work on tabulated-list-mode, I've been kinda > frustrated by its design. You'd ideally just be able to have a > functional interface where you just call a function with all the data > (and some commands to apply to the data), and then everything would > work. But instead it's a strange mixture of functional, buffer-local > data and updating functions. >=20 > A side effect of this is that the table isn't an "object" you can do > operations on -- there can only be one table per buffer, and it wants to > control the entire buffer. >=20 > So I'd welcome a more functional rewrite of tabulated-list-mode that > would constrain all actions to the area of the buffer where the table > is, and leave the rest of the buffer alone. And stash the table data in > the table instead of using the buffer-local variables. I agree with all that you say. And this is a great summary of my feelings about the failings of t-m-mode: there can only be one table per buffer, and it wants to control the entire buffer I don't expect this enhancement request to get traction anytime soon. And in fact I think that ultimately this is related to the real need for some kind of reasonable, robust, multiple-major-modes feature. That might not be the best name, and there are multiple ways to envision such things. But wrt this request, I'm thinking of an ability to, in the same buffer, have tables that are governed by something like t-m-mode, but without impacting the buffer mode in general or at least other parts of the buffer. The key-bindings part could likely be dealt with using a `keymap' text property. But t-m-mode is a major mode so far, and there are its local variables to be dealt with (and a mode hook, and maybe other buffer-related=20 stuff). Variables with values specific to a given span of text, i.e., realized via text properties, might be a way to deal with some of this. Dunno, and dunno how that might be realized. Just thinking out loud. I'm sure that others, who've spent a lot of time trying to think about multiple major modes, have a much better view of the obstacles and possibilities in this regard. It just seems to me that making t-m-mode a major mode is a mistake. You can't even add any additional text to the buffer, outside the table - not even a heading. It just kind of takes over a buffer, and that's quite limiting.