From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Oct 14 17:11:17 2020 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Oct 2020 21:11:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53202 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kSo3J-0000Ei-5s for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Oct 2020 17:11:17 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:53716) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kSo3H-0000EZ-Kx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Oct 2020 17:11:16 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35158) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kSo3H-0002Yp-8K for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Oct 2020 17:11:15 -0400 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:57976) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kSo3C-00075A-TK for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Oct 2020 17:11:14 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 09EKsKmO005442 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 2020 21:11:09 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : subject : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=T+O0lUCNKu3/nIt8UKY2n5rGPm58e0I9NPgkCjiRRVo=; b=VmHM/IzZz54nU8nLg+xCej+O2n8UQ70jN8+hLGfBohaOvTgCBkmiLSFQrVUYvlouptgA esrwSZ8GFK+c/35bkYQvSe8tpd2VkJn8+S9ZZZxID2gbBaAYXdjntMwdgkpjXjMererY Te/jLFpLmKNpC9OOZcmJ8z8Jd4C2j071HuWjZxhqzv/y4PCzrmYvtQbcGjrxaub3XjpK ohryt1nN1KfmeUBwL51KjezDMo2ZU/cLtEUMp28ifVJxLTz2yCvU2F+uL5YQlBhTvuvY Sokb1+A+sHbD5iaeOeH+kUBqOciawzQRqZGagFvQsJvgLZJSkQtddRHQtPZGSr6u2NXI BQ== Received: from userp3030.oracle.com (userp3030.oracle.com [156.151.31.80]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 3434wkstyw-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 14 Oct 2020 21:11:09 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 09EKsZ2I034880 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 2020 21:11:08 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 343pvyd69b-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 14 Oct 2020 21:11:08 +0000 Received: from abhmp0020.oracle.com (abhmp0020.oracle.com [141.146.116.26]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 09ELB4ka006318 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 2020 21:11:07 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2020 14:11:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 26.3; Please document frame parameter `modeline' in the Elisp manual X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5056.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9774 signatures=668682 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 suspectscore=1 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2010140147 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9774 signatures=668682 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 suspectscore=1 impostorscore=0 clxscore=1015 spamscore=0 priorityscore=1501 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2010140147 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=141.146.126.78; envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=aserp2120.oracle.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/10/14 17:11:09 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.1-3.10 [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) Subject line says it all. I couldn't find where this is used in the Lisp code, so I guess it's used in C code. In GNU Emacs 26.3 (build 1, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2019-08-29 Repository revision: 96dd0196c28bc36779584e47fffcca433c9309cd Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 10.0.18362 Configured using: `configure --without-dbus --host=3Dx86_64-w64-mingw32 --without-compress-install 'CFLAGS=3D-O2 -static -g3'' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 15 03:28:02 2020 Received: (at 43996) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Oct 2020 07:28:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54034 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kSxgA-0004v5-Dx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 03:28:02 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:39356) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kSxg9-0004ud-2g for 43996@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 03:28:01 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=jMkcQFAUb4OnEo3colf0drM5sRLJSxEhdmlKfDG/ymw=; b=oNk3A5w42Ed4lvPlWqE0DcQhNN BhXpi624z45ozs0v2bNwCyAv2cOqNAvlA2LNxc7yYXDc5BKUEGwvgqfdYJUCjXt3ItIq4TwliZiH7 RLhm2U4778J50OG/X3+C50nU2Z1I5/Y5G35X8sa6lEN3vLF+CkA3oYfpCJgUQn+I6t9A=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kSxfw-0000eY-UI; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 09:27:54 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#43996: 26.3; Please document frame parameter `modeline' in the Elisp manual References: X-Now-Playing: Grimes's _Geidi Primes_: "Caladan" Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 09:27:47 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Wed, 14 Oct 2020 14:11:02 -0700 (PDT)") Message-ID: <87362gymmk.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Drew Adams writes: > Subject line says it all. > > I couldn't find where this is used in the Lisp code, so I guess it's > used in C code. Where did you happen onto the modeline frame parameter? Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 43996 Cc: 43996@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Drew Adams writes: > Subject line says it all. > > I couldn't find where this is used in the Lisp code, so I guess it's > used in C code. Where did you happen onto the modeline frame parameter? Reading the code, it looks like internal bookkeeping, and is always set on the C level from f->wants_modeline, which again is only set to false in make_minibuffer_frame. So it doesn't look like a frame parameter that can be set by the user, if I'm reading the code correctly, and therefore shouldn't be documented. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 15 09:46:21 2020 Received: (at 43996) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Oct 2020 13:46:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54846 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kT3aH-0006Ki-5F for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 09:46:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:47034) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kT3aE-0006KT-T6 for 43996@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 09:46:19 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:50611) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kT3a5-0001PT-2a; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 09:46:10 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1247 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kT3a4-0003Wk-DK; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 09:46:08 -0400 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 16:46:22 +0300 Message-Id: <83r1pzy53l.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Wed, 14 Oct 2020 14:11:02 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: bug#43996: 26.3; Please document frame parameter `modeline' in the Elisp manual References: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 43996 Cc: 43996@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2020 14:11:02 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > > Subject line says it all. No, it doesn't. Did you actually have a real-life use case where that parameter was needed and useful to your Lisp program? > I couldn't find where this is used in the Lisp code, so I guess it's > used in C code. This parameter doesn't really exist, it's an illusion. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 15 11:18:34 2020 Received: (at 43996) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Oct 2020 15:18:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56223 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kT51W-0006uL-Ih for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 11:18:34 -0400 Received: from aserp2130.oracle.com ([141.146.126.79]:39634) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kT51V-0006uA-Oj for 43996@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 11:18:34 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 09FFEaBl151978; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 15:18:27 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=2Fc1ssyEpDfB/4/OAlnP6MrZsF8hwWAYEt76SUm5/oo=; b=WaQ3O2kGmwSo+BwBHlspLDA5qWo7tHoSJbidPWKU5OCFc90M9Z2MUj99Xsolj/5sdA9T nGcqzAFMknbrix9QKlU3wez/glf3oTHrpUicEZTCbsZq6LP1oNWz01MFpudWZ69dwVU/ t1GtbKvSIpjFMYGlvUEZITOWNiU7UAQZl2kaRJByFGKzS2M84M+hZvY3nfzU+Yl9aZLC 7YtMAL/WpJdmN2sTR+VRQLmjPdklMbZdaN2w6CrCIhPm2jHNyZNE6DqKOfdtCy67gwSE 4NlsKx2zVULZ2B9kmhvByArWRw9KM3xWACWkSE1Pjzl2WUQBDDfiD3luBhMKJtvKEapL og== Received: from aserp3030.oracle.com (aserp3030.oracle.com [141.146.126.71]) by aserp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 346g8gjep6-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 15 Oct 2020 15:18:27 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 09FFFl3s070389; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 15:18:27 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 343phr7cfh-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 15 Oct 2020 15:18:27 +0000 Received: from abhmp0005.oracle.com (abhmp0005.oracle.com [141.146.116.11]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 09FFIQBZ025495; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 15:18:26 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 08:18:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: RE: bug#43996: 26.3; Please document frame parameter `modeline' in the Elisp manual References: <87362gymmk.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: <87362gymmk.fsf@gnus.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5056.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9774 signatures=668682 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2010150104 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9774 signatures=668682 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 impostorscore=0 suspectscore=0 priorityscore=1501 phishscore=0 clxscore=1011 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 lowpriorityscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2010150104 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 43996 Cc: 43996@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Where did you happen onto the modeline frame parameter? I see it when I invoke function `frame-parameters'. I don't have it in any of my code. It must be coming from Emacs itself. > Reading the code, it looks like internal bookkeeping, and is always set > on the C level from f->wants_modeline, which again is only set to false > in make_minibuffer_frame. Thanks for that info. That corresponds to what I see. I cannot add a mode-line to a standalone minibuffer frame, it seems. See bug #43997 for a request to be able to do that. > So it doesn't look like a frame parameter that can be set by the user, > if I'm reading the code correctly, and therefore shouldn't be documented. Can't be set, but can be seen. And you can _seemingly_ set it. You get no error or direct indication that it doesn't get set, when you try to set it. So at the very least, its visibility and apparent setting can mislead/confuse users. If it were entirely invisible from Lisp, then, yes, it wouldn't need to be described/explained. The fact that you can't really set it should maybe be doc'd. Or at least the fact that non-nil means there is a mode-line (or whatever it really means), and that a standalone minibuffer frame can't have a mode-line (but why not?). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 15 11:26:07 2020 Received: (at 43996) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Oct 2020 15:26:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56228 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kT58p-00075P-Dm for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 11:26:07 -0400 Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:47882) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kT58o-00074v-0m for 43996@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 11:26:06 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 09FFQ0GM134465; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 15:26:00 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=eYEESA7flknIBv1Q9QIa5uo5aK06ogGKclUGgpNZoQI=; b=Aw0/+fJ47b5lT+K6jWNe+hD3OA85JRhQgi7Q5VkLBo3i4fn0u6+5aVEIIz0NZ1nDTRbq gM1HxP94BBJdCx4GyvB+jAt7u1kNSdTONqyog+SnzB1QE5gcs0XtEnkWD8+UuqpoFOZL FypOB0c7Sog5Az8LKBK1Ivw9b+Hmrj8opbsloZPJp6XFKEcolfxv/BZ3es10ncWiuXlL twenHU9p8DjiIM3S1+jwXWVqx5d7H8Oyw+t4ybgdZmEcSIu0SelQWf1uwck8TKMNpcPX t+U1ECHJ/UC+Qf9ty3nD8ghMbtkI+kJVF2cnV0SZ9fdLXlPsp4kFk/m2xj3iTakq6YAI XQ== Received: from userp3030.oracle.com (userp3030.oracle.com [156.151.31.80]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 343vaekn1g-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 15 Oct 2020 15:26:00 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 09FFEfxJ091190; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 15:23:51 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 343pw0h2r3-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 15 Oct 2020 15:23:51 +0000 Received: from abhmp0005.oracle.com (abhmp0005.oracle.com [141.146.116.11]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 09FFNn5i029252; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 15:23:49 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 08:23:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Subject: RE: bug#43996: 26.3; Please document frame parameter `modeline' in the Elisp manual References: <> <<83r1pzy53l.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83r1pzy53l.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5056.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9774 signatures=668682 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=981 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2010150104 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9775 signatures=668682 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxlogscore=999 clxscore=1015 impostorscore=0 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 bulkscore=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2010150104 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 43996 Cc: 43996@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > No, it doesn't. Did you actually have a real-life use case where that > parameter was needed and useful to your Lisp program? Maybe. How to know, without knowing what it does or is supposed to do? > > I couldn't find where this is used in the Lisp code, so I guess it's > > used in C code. >=20 > This parameter doesn't really exist, it's an illusion. Then could you please remove this "illusion" from what users see and can manipulate in Lisp? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 15 11:46:45 2020 Received: (at 43996) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Oct 2020 15:46:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56271 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kT5Sn-0007dm-1a for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 11:46:45 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:49844) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kT5Sk-0007dW-Cq for 43996@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 11:46:43 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:52986) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kT5Sf-00014S-1l; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 11:46:37 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4779 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kT5Se-0000ZJ-IX; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 11:46:36 -0400 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 18:46:50 +0300 Message-Id: <837drrxzit.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Thu, 15 Oct 2020 08:18:25 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: bug#43996: 26.3; Please document frame parameter `modeline' in the Elisp manual References: <87362gymmk.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 43996 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 43996@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 08:18:25 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 43996@debbugs.gnu.org > > Can't be set, but can be seen. And you can > _seemingly_ set it. You can set a parameter by any name you like. That's how frame-local variables are used. That doesn't mean a name you invent should be documented. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 15 11:49:21 2020 Received: (at 43996) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Oct 2020 15:49:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56286 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kT5VJ-0007iA-B0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 11:49:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:50488) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kT5VI-0007hw-6h for 43996@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 11:49:20 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:53022) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kT5VC-0001IG-KR; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 11:49:14 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4940 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kT5VB-0000kY-Lh; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 11:49:14 -0400 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 18:49:28 +0300 Message-Id: <834kmvxzef.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Thu, 15 Oct 2020 08:23:48 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: bug#43996: 26.3; Please document frame parameter `modeline' in the Elisp manual References: <> <<83r1pzy53l.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 43996 Cc: 43996@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 08:23:48 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 43996@debbugs.gnu.org > > > This parameter doesn't really exist, it's an illusion. > > Then could you please remove this "illusion" from what > users see and can manipulate in Lisp? No, it's needed and sometimes useful, but not to readers of the Lisp Reference manual. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 15 12:18:06 2020 Received: (at 43996) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Oct 2020 16:18:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56353 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kT5x8-00029f-5t for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 12:18:06 -0400 Received: from aserp2130.oracle.com ([141.146.126.79]:39540) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kT5x6-00029B-T4 for 43996@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 12:18:05 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 09FFsfLd029631; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 16:17:59 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=J31VV7lIPxUP97x8+T7TtPjjg1LOhQlF+iYVop+QIC0=; b=ZsA/xFq7f+EuvbOu5K31i6KnEz/SKuExgsjrZrhmIMsmOfQjplKZkemp9vxL9ncPnc9D NSUgcC6+wLYnWh+BTQ4se/Ep3puCkKIKZml4z+LoJ8712IbsGrow+uqpQDHKLFGm7ztt 2dRsX9SA9ICb8T3Axku3ZsmGBZuXaiHqGfrWrx/fetia1Z6iEYsaPINwNBclpPXMxT8o g5cxXfLddzfcKBCg/doByI5ipfyXeJbGYq+adQvsemQg14ujEcX4KCVNvkPio/V5tSyC RVY1nY9lhnS/bRkPqqSu6zW06D76+pwmi3pnFo+ege76T01Y9GVgNoQXwnCGfqrKtsqk wQ== Received: from aserp3030.oracle.com (aserp3030.oracle.com [141.146.126.71]) by aserp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 346g8gjseh-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 15 Oct 2020 16:17:59 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 09FFtmiJ017380; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 16:17:58 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 343phr9qp5-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 15 Oct 2020 16:17:58 +0000 Received: from abhmp0005.oracle.com (abhmp0005.oracle.com [141.146.116.11]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 09FGHv7c001436; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 16:17:57 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <8d7e052b-1afa-4173-8024-6c496b964af5@default> Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 09:17:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Subject: RE: bug#43996: 26.3; Please document frame parameter `modeline' in the Elisp manual References: <> <<87362gymmk.fsf@gnus.org>> <> <<837drrxzit.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<837drrxzit.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5056.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9775 signatures=668682 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2010150106 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9775 signatures=668682 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 impostorscore=0 suspectscore=0 priorityscore=1501 phishscore=0 clxscore=1015 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 lowpriorityscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2010150106 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 43996 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 43996@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > Can't be set, but can be seen. And you can > > _seemingly_ set it. >=20 > You can set a parameter by any name you like. That's how frame-local > variables are used. Yes, I know. > That doesn't mean a name you invent should be > documented. `modeline' is not a name I invented. You seem to be changing the subject. This is only about parameter `modeline', not an arbitrary parameter added by user code. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 25 11:25:40 2021 Received: (at 43996) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Sep 2021 15:25:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34357 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mU9YZ-0003f8-Nw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 11:25:40 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-f182.google.com ([209.85.214.182]:37415) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mU9YQ-0003eX-Ox for 43996@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 11:25:37 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-f182.google.com with SMTP id j14so8609120plx.4 for <43996@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 08:25:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=jw2hAJwesx0+CcDVEsILJl+nqb9BUPPUXaOlqfbSlk4=; b=jMceU+WzR8neV3Efxfn+qUmeJQ7Drfi/nZyfS//oK/XQDZekhhZQyjrA6XL5zi/iy1 rhnfVMR0bzQ668nKifjDo3xWwYgxh94HthdknxAgGTRddI1daE6FtxNQawqWWZVJ6RxQ ZE1yh/Gv9+82UvqSR95cjAw0JizdESEQXbOTwZy0z7qFnjWsDT2eARc3/pNMirtO9cod nNGl/8pCqbVUfzSfb4+MQH15r4U+dce6pLgF5KbPkK8x6mvtNgfsSlSbvdoWs9N+QZt2 lZSxSHg6d62t6BE8AsJWPAaNdeSn0Ga0RQpNXqkPvithz/9WGXIVjuMhl71utoQP9cXJ Cvgw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532UTOUXjTkW4Pi51wJAzDFoJanPAc9o2ngeWeBoxiHafrGQuWjT NwdDUFmmore613sBzGFhh3gge7g9y2p5QhYapDu6yqfY X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyZ0ZP47d5SbNv/geHctsOrG1Lr50YwTlfSkxYIVDvN2M2cezjvJPugff9ARrIVzvgDETha2yjRREj5mUg4yTk= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:3805:: with SMTP id mq5mr8832384pjb.143.1632583525154; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 08:25:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 08:25:24 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <834kmvxzef.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 15 Oct 2020 18:49:28 +0300") References: > <83r1pzy53l.fsf@gnu.org>> <834kmvxzef.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 08:25:24 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#43996: 26.3; Please document frame parameter `modeline' in the Elisp manual To: Eli Zaretskii Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 43996 Cc: 43996@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) tags 43996 + notabug wontfix close 43996 thanks Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 08:23:48 -0700 (PDT) >> From: Drew Adams >> Cc: 43996@debbugs.gnu.org >> >> > This parameter doesn't really exist, it's an illusion. >> >> Then could you please remove this "illusion" from what >> users see and can manipulate in Lisp? > > No, it's needed and sometimes useful, but not to readers of the Lisp > Reference manual. OK, that sounds to me like an official maintainer decision that we don't want to document this parameter in the ELisp manual. I'm consequently closing this bug report. From unknown Wed Jun 18 00:24:57 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2021 11:24:12 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator