From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 06 15:26:51 2020 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Oct 2020 19:26:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54196 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kPsbq-0007lU-PH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Oct 2020 15:26:51 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:53530) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kPsbn-0007lL-DC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Oct 2020 15:26:49 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40694) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kPsbn-0004IP-74 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Oct 2020 15:26:47 -0400 Received: from aserp2130.oracle.com ([141.146.126.79]:51210) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kPsbl-0004Y9-0m for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Oct 2020 15:26:46 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 096JO90t144313 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 2020 19:26:42 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : subject : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=Zd8TGchwUELLfIoQ/cDO2Kf0G1fciPWFcMkFhjVPX7g=; b=e7T7kiBrfjvtydn8BFYZQyXApc8NuPoRYqE/5vC2wOPxJ7e2dp76aPd4/UY/OMEgZ3Xt lxbSRa8JXeEDGfFZTQUkbXB8O5IMxNo5vY/+n/vrhy7TZuZj2Gd/X0aNXtxF82P7/cBv XkAmGkOF6w9EfhUQaalUSuxoPLimwHI39OllxU0uDne0ZkE5b7UEPnLs8nTgvXqSx/LP hLjV+tXRK+z2lgnZLkfEATGQYPVpYRhXfgiwQ/itT0sMBb9h2i0m2DevUIml0PHseajq mI8ycBNmjyabNsVv1zvdDC9DfSQ7sIt4qmzlo/TK+eB7cn3iTu4NzAwGEXSTjmWeVNjB 4w== Received: from aserp3030.oracle.com (aserp3030.oracle.com [141.146.126.71]) by aserp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 33xetax6gh-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 06 Oct 2020 19:26:42 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 096JPHU7016645 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 2020 19:26:42 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 33y2vnfg0y-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Tue, 06 Oct 2020 19:26:41 +0000 Received: from abhmp0002.oracle.com (abhmp0002.oracle.com [141.146.116.8]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 096JQeue026693 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 2020 19:26:41 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3022a1e4-54c0-492e-8175-8067fb306cb1@default> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2020 12:26:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 27.1; Doc string of `alist-get' X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5056.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9766 signatures=668680 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=867 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=1 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2006250000 definitions=main-2010060125 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9766 signatures=668680 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 clxscore=1015 priorityscore=1501 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=883 phishscore=0 impostorscore=0 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=1 lowpriorityscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2006250000 definitions=main-2010060125 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=141.146.126.79; envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=aserp2130.oracle.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/10/06 15:26:43 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.1-3.10 [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -34 X-Spam_score: -3.5 X-Spam_bar: --- X-Spam_report: (-3.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.733, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) The doc string is less clear in 27.1 than it was in 26.3. Instead of saying that a generalized variable is involved, it says: You can use `alist-get' in PLACE expressions. This will modify an existing association (more precisely, the first one if multiple exist), or add a new element to the beginning of ALIST, destructively modifying the list stored in ALIST. A user can a least look up "generalized variable" in Emacs 26. The Emacs 27 version just refers to "PLACE expressions", which is unclear and can't be looked up easily. And why is PLACE uppercase, which indicates that it's something in the calling sequence or is otherwise defined in the doc string somehow? It's also not clear how _adding_ a new element to the beginning of ALIST destructively modifies it. Does it really mean setting the car of ALIST to a different element, not adding an element? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 06 22:51:53 2020 Received: (at 43836) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Oct 2020 02:51:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54628 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kPzYW-0007kI-Sh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Oct 2020 22:51:53 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:39078) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kPzYV-0007k5-2f for 43836@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Oct 2020 22:51:52 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=tSoyRlJGth+Nf5gHOgqZI0XFdVaHdt0PRq9ME8awPlo=; b=LjJZxMbrpQiGMTAlQYdb3E0yA6 BmRN+oWLztHLgYOtUkuO3ueLAetwEyWMsqZURRbvbJ4M4sQuAzfdzpe36LlvLuIbMXXw56hJ98l2A gwnFATKoLzucI1Vh3BNR6obOPZFEHZL8bJlt8Aqex0f+BlDYnMNZqVmsSHsmguggLWto=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kPzYL-0000G1-Rt; Wed, 07 Oct 2020 04:51:44 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#43836: 27.1; Doc string of `alist-get' References: <3022a1e4-54c0-492e-8175-8067fb306cb1@default> X-Now-Playing: Richard and Linda Thompson's _I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight_: "The End Of The Rainbow" Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2020 04:51:40 +0200 In-Reply-To: <3022a1e4-54c0-492e-8175-8067fb306cb1@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Tue, 6 Oct 2020 12:26:40 -0700 (PDT)") Message-ID: <87d01u929v.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Drew Adams writes: > The doc string is less clear in 27.1 than it was in 26.3. > > Instead of saying that a generalized variable is involved, it says: > > You can use `alist-get' in PLACE expressions. This will modify > [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 43836 Cc: 43836@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Drew Adams writes: > The doc string is less clear in 27.1 than it was in 26.3. > > Instead of saying that a generalized variable is involved, it says: > > You can use `alist-get' in PLACE expressions. This will modify > an existing association (more precisely, the first one if > multiple exist), or add a new element to the beginning of ALIST, > destructively modifying the list stored in ALIST. > > A user can a least look up "generalized variable" in Emacs 26. The > Emacs 27 version just refers to "PLACE expressions", which is unclear > and can't be looked up easily. And why is PLACE uppercase, which > indicates that it's something in the calling sequence or is otherwise > defined in the doc string somehow? I've now reintroduced "generalized variable" and downcased PLACE in Emacs 28. > It's also not clear how _adding_ a new element to the beginning of ALIST > destructively modifies it. Does it really mean setting the car of ALIST > to a different element, not adding an element? The example that follows on clarifies what's meant here. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 06 22:52:00 2020 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Oct 2020 02:52:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54631 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kPzYe-0007ke-3R for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Oct 2020 22:52:00 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:39092) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kPzYc-0007kO-CX for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Oct 2020 22:51:58 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=fsJCQNUE4kzEuUGmkgqcJaIK21xjd7Kkg3Mw3fEZi+s=; b=kY/+n3He25Vo8R108YT6zYvTau 1ZqNhysLhRB/umP9vpFSXYXOT+DvEXKIbH6PBaR7YuCt+YKGjD/h+M8wJ9UDIfkDG3mrONXjML59j x7Ld3UG2rceUSrjXimGlLNl7xDkkWP7mDAEsGrBe0Ua/Qj17om0UR9DZCRAXE/iLExio=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kPzYU-0000GE-Kw for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Oct 2020 04:51:52 +0200 Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2020 04:51:49 +0200 Message-Id: <87blhe929m.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #43836 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 43836 fixed close 43836 28.1 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 43836 fixed close 43836 28.1 quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Oct 07 00:29:31 2020 Received: (at 43836) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Oct 2020 04:29:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54783 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kQ151-0006DR-BT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Oct 2020 00:29:31 -0400 Received: from aserp2130.oracle.com ([141.146.126.79]:35260) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kQ14x-0006DC-Eh for 43836@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Oct 2020 00:29:29 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 0974ODf8029200; Wed, 7 Oct 2020 04:29:20 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=B0qAXHN++SS5epYgxI/diR17y5gZUc8Ugwwr+eol64g=; b=sMHMNvYxq+06K8w4SoGchWpgg8mOGdl8cMt+kNi87XbLaTDv1qPnbCk0fnCttNXqViZe VByi5eoGG2/7UQqQHi45TCqpPGqlRZ/UBT9Lp+qzCzhWzNNx/CujoerNrJcP3USrt8eR kSqd1lFycj4i8/Hi4SGOQstJgWzPuOL5MO39OEGy8lk6y9FCzj9cJcEILmRdgWAv/7gL 804mrahDeXRkdunouyoSyurpcUTb1X0HC3PF68OvkYszMvxMRFTFmt+fDL6f/n5uN1aO PkdHCfWaehK1X7O0rVUyDr8GBJ9/8rK+myXhoS1AviNkCb79NNqPImiaaX/uqOqSMerD rg== Received: from userp3030.oracle.com (userp3030.oracle.com [156.151.31.80]) by aserp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 33xetayqsk-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 07 Oct 2020 04:29:20 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 0974Q9nc044180; Wed, 7 Oct 2020 04:29:19 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 33y37y0yyh-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 07 Oct 2020 04:29:19 +0000 Received: from abhmp0016.oracle.com (abhmp0016.oracle.com [141.146.116.22]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 0974TIQd022165; Wed, 7 Oct 2020 04:29:18 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <4fc793a7-df39-44e6-b718-7f477469f16f@default> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2020 21:29:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: RE: bug#43836: 27.1; Doc string of `alist-get' References: <3022a1e4-54c0-492e-8175-8067fb306cb1@default> <87d01u929v.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: <87d01u929v.fsf@gnus.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5056.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9766 signatures=668680 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2006250000 definitions=main-2010070027 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9766 signatures=668680 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 clxscore=1011 priorityscore=1501 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 phishscore=0 impostorscore=0 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2006250000 definitions=main-2010070027 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 43836 Cc: 43836@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > It's also not clear how _adding_ a new element to the beginning of ALIS= T > > destructively modifies it. Does it really mean setting the car of ALIS= T > > to a different element, not adding an element? >=20 > The example that follows on clarifies what's meant here. Not really. Not clear to me what's meant. The first example adds (b . 2) to the front of the alist. OK. But does it destructively modify the list? Or does `foo' just point to a new list (new cons) whose cdr is the old list? (I'm sure that some operations with `alist-get' do modify list structure. But I don't see how adding an element to the front of the list does that.) And how do you add an element (b . 3) to the front of an alist that has an element (b . 2)? An alist can have multiple elements with the same key. Sorry, but just what the behavior is for a place expression that uses `alist-get' isn't clear to me from that doc string, at all. I have the same questions for the description at (elisp) `Association Lists'. This is apparently a useful function, and a bit complex. I suspect the doc isn't doing it justice, but not understanding the actual behavior I can only wonder. From unknown Thu Sep 11 01:11:12 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2020 12:24:07 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator