From unknown Tue Aug 19 02:51:45 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#43633: 28.0.50; Include definitions in glossary for: extensible, customizable, self-documenting, real-time display editor Resent-From: Jean Louis Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2020 17:08:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 43633 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 43633@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.16011400274033 (code B ref -1); Sat, 26 Sep 2020 17:08:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Sep 2020 17:07:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47688 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kMDf9-00012z-7C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Sep 2020 13:07:07 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:34340) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kMDf6-00012q-Ki for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Sep 2020 13:07:05 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53604) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kMDf4-0000RO-PJ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Sep 2020 13:07:02 -0400 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:49949) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kMDf0-0004NU-Pf for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Sep 2020 13:07:00 -0400 Received: from protected.rcdrun.com ([::ffff:197.239.40.117]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1) by stw1.rcdrun.com with UTF8ESMTPSA id 0000000000081F4E.000000005F6F750E.0000729A; Sat, 26 Sep 2020 10:06:22 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (uid 1001) by protected.rcdrun.com with local id 00000000000C2378.000000005F6F750A.000043E3; Sat, 26 Sep 2020 19:06:18 +0200 From: Jean Louis Message-ID: Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2020 19:06:18 +0200 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=admin@protected.rcdrun.com; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/26 12:02:28 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.1 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) This is feature request or attempt to make Emacs more beginner friendly: When one goes into Info file, there is sentence: Emacs is the extensible, customizable, self-documenting real-time display editor. In my opinion, those terms are special in Emacs, and should be described as terms in the Glossary section of Emacs Info file. Jean From unknown Tue Aug 19 02:51:45 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#43633: 28.0.50; Include definitions in glossary for: extensible, customizable, self-documenting, real-time display editor Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2020 17:17:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 43633 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jean Louis Cc: 43633@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 43633-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B43633.16011406184905 (code B ref 43633); Sat, 26 Sep 2020 17:17:01 +0000 Received: (at 43633) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Sep 2020 17:16:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47696 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kMDog-0001H3-6f for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Sep 2020 13:16:58 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:48084) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kMDod-0001Go-8p for 43633@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Sep 2020 13:16:56 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:35118) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kMDoY-0005sC-14; Sat, 26 Sep 2020 13:16:50 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4328 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kMDoX-0005dh-4V; Sat, 26 Sep 2020 13:16:49 -0400 Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2020 20:16:44 +0300 Message-Id: <83v9g0pif7.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: (message from Jean Louis on Sat, 26 Sep 2020 19:06:18 +0200) References: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Jean Louis > Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2020 19:06:18 +0200 > > > When one goes into Info file, there is sentence: > > Emacs is the extensible, customizable, self-documenting real-time > display editor. > > In my opinion, those terms are special in Emacs, and should be > described as terms in the Glossary section of Emacs Info file. I don't understand: these terms are explained right there in the section which starts with that sentence. Why would we need to explain them in the Glossary? I also don't understand how these terms are special in Emacs, I think we use them in their usual meaning. From unknown Tue Aug 19 02:51:45 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#43633: 28.0.50; Include definitions in glossary for: extensible, customizable, self-documenting, real-time display editor Resent-From: Jean Louis Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2020 20:34:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 43633 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 43633@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 43633-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B43633.160115242431062 (code B ref 43633); Sat, 26 Sep 2020 20:34:01 +0000 Received: (at 43633) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Sep 2020 20:33:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47809 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kMGt5-00084w-NC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Sep 2020 16:33:43 -0400 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:41535) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kMGt3-00084i-Eu for 43633@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Sep 2020 16:33:41 -0400 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:197.239.40.117]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 0000000000081F4E.000000005F6FA59E.00000A03; Sat, 26 Sep 2020 13:33:34 -0700 Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2020 23:33:29 +0300 From: Jean Louis Message-ID: <20200926203329.GA20474@protected.rcdrun.com> References: <83v9g0pif7.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83v9g0pif7.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.14.0 (2020-05-02) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) * Eli Zaretskii [2020-09-26 20:17]: > > From: Jean Louis > > Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2020 19:06:18 +0200 > > > > > > When one goes into Info file, there is sentence: > > > > Emacs is the extensible, customizable, self-documenting real-time > > display editor. > > > > In my opinion, those terms are special in Emacs, and should be > > described as terms in the Glossary section of Emacs Info file. > > I don't understand: these terms are explained right there in the > section which starts with that sentence. Why would we need to explain > them in the Glossary? By the sole definition of what glossary represents. > I also don't understand how these terms are special in Emacs, I think > we use them in their usual meaning. The Intro section defines the words. Those definitions are definitely technical, special definitions relating to Emacs, and are special in Emacs. If you don't see, I cannot help, I see special technical definitions that relate to Emacs. Glossary is looked upon at any time. One cannot assume that a hyperlinked info document is read in some order. Glossary shall contain all terms and definitions used in the info to help an user clarify the meanings. If necessary, just as with other terms, it can point back or hyperlink to various info sections. Jean From unknown Tue Aug 19 02:51:45 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#43633: 28.0.50; Include definitions in glossary for: extensible, customizable, self-documenting, real-time display editor Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2020 02:43:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 43633 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jean Louis Cc: 43633@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 43633-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B43633.160117457716633 (code B ref 43633); Sun, 27 Sep 2020 02:43:02 +0000 Received: (at 43633) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Sep 2020 02:42:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48109 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kMMeO-0004KD-Pa for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Sep 2020 22:42:56 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:55822) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kMMeL-0004Jy-IX for 43633@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Sep 2020 22:42:56 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:44808) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kMMeG-00058B-7r; Sat, 26 Sep 2020 22:42:48 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kMMeF-0001kv-Ba; Sat, 26 Sep 2020 22:42:47 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: (message from Jean Louis on Sat, 26 Sep 2020 19:06:18 +0200) References: Message-Id: Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2020 22:42:47 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > Emacs is the extensible, customizable, self-documenting real-time > display editor. Are there any editors in widespread use that are not real-time and display? I know some still exist -- for instance, ed -- but perhaps it is no longer useful to say "real-time display" in that sentence. -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Tue Aug 19 02:51:45 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#43633: 28.0.50; Include definitions in glossary for: extensible, customizable, self-documenting, real-time display editor Resent-From: Jean Louis Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2020 04:44:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 43633 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: rms@gnu.org Cc: 43633@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 43633-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B43633.160118178227315 (code B ref 43633); Sun, 27 Sep 2020 04:44:02 +0000 Received: (at 43633) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Sep 2020 04:43:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48141 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kMOWb-00076S-Ue for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Sep 2020 00:43:02 -0400 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:36327) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kMOWZ-00076A-P1 for 43633@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Sep 2020 00:43:00 -0400 Received: from [10.161.17.13] ([::ffff:197.239.40.117]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_CHACHA20_POLY1305) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 0000000000081F4F.000000005F70184C.00002DDE; Sat, 26 Sep 2020 21:42:52 -0700 Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2020 04:42:46 +0000 In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Jean Louis Message-ID: <58D6F493-1E8C-407D-99C1-B3755EE71710@gnu.support> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) That is not longer useful, right=2E=20 Only as historical fact, it could be left at some place as a note=2E Am September 27, 2020 2:42:47 AM UTC schrieb Richard Stallman : >[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] >[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] >[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example=2E ]]] > > > Emacs is the extensible, customizable, self-documenting real-time > > display editor=2E > >Are there any editors in widespread use that are not real-time and >display? I know some still exist -- for instance, ed -- but perhaps >it is no longer useful to say "real-time display" in that sentence=2E From unknown Tue Aug 19 02:51:45 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Jean Louis Subject: bug#43633: closed (Re: bug#43633: 28.0.50; Include definitions in glossary for: extensible, customizable, self-documenting, real-time display editor) Message-ID: References: <83eemnpxen.fsf@gnu.org> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 43633 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 43633@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2020 06:06:02 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1601186762-3684-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1601186762-3684-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #43633: 28.0.50; Include definitions in glossary for: extensible, customiza= ble, self-documenting, real-time display editor which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 43633@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 43633: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D43633 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1601186762-3684-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 43633-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Sep 2020 06:05:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48168 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kMPod-0000wu-P1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Sep 2020 02:05:43 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:49036) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kMPoa-0000wg-UW for 43633-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Sep 2020 02:05:41 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:47205) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kMPoV-0000nJ-I9; Sun, 27 Sep 2020 02:05:35 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3533 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kMPoU-0000IS-SD; Sun, 27 Sep 2020 02:05:35 -0400 Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2020 09:05:20 +0300 Message-Id: <83eemnpxen.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Jean Louis In-Reply-To: <20200926203329.GA20474@protected.rcdrun.com> (message from Jean Louis on Sat, 26 Sep 2020 23:33:29 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#43633: 28.0.50; Include definitions in glossary for: extensible, customizable, self-documenting, real-time display editor References: <83v9g0pif7.fsf@gnu.org> <20200926203329.GA20474@protected.rcdrun.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 43633-done Cc: 43633-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2020 23:33:29 +0300 > From: Jean Louis > Cc: 43633@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > Emacs is the extensible, customizable, self-documenting real-time > > > display editor. > > > > > > In my opinion, those terms are special in Emacs, and should be > > > described as terms in the Glossary section of Emacs Info file. > > > > I don't understand: these terms are explained right there in the > > section which starts with that sentence. Why would we need to explain > > them in the Glossary? > > By the sole definition of what glossary represents. But those terms aren't used anywhere else in the manual, are they? Actually, "self-documenting" _is_ used elsewhere, but then it's already in the Glossary. The rest are used exactly once, in this section. So I see no need to change anything in this regard, and I'm closing this bug report. ------------=_1601186762-3684-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Sep 2020 17:07:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47688 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kMDf9-00012z-7C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Sep 2020 13:07:07 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:34340) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kMDf6-00012q-Ki for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Sep 2020 13:07:05 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53604) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kMDf4-0000RO-PJ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Sep 2020 13:07:02 -0400 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:49949) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kMDf0-0004NU-Pf for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Sep 2020 13:07:00 -0400 Received: from protected.rcdrun.com ([::ffff:197.239.40.117]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1) by stw1.rcdrun.com with UTF8ESMTPSA id 0000000000081F4E.000000005F6F750E.0000729A; Sat, 26 Sep 2020 10:06:22 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (uid 1001) by protected.rcdrun.com with local id 00000000000C2378.000000005F6F750A.000043E3; Sat, 26 Sep 2020 19:06:18 +0200 From: Jean Louis To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 28.0.50; Include definitions in glossary for: extensible, customizable, self-documenting, real-time display editor Message-ID: Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2020 19:06:18 +0200 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=admin@protected.rcdrun.com; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/26 12:02:28 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.1 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) This is feature request or attempt to make Emacs more beginner friendly: When one goes into Info file, there is sentence: Emacs is the extensible, customizable, self-documenting real-time display editor. In my opinion, those terms are special in Emacs, and should be described as terms in the Glossary section of Emacs Info file. Jean ------------=_1601186762-3684-1-- From unknown Tue Aug 19 02:51:45 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#43633: 28.0.50; Include definitions in glossary for: extensible, customizable, self-documenting, real-time display editor Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2020 06:28:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 43633 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: rms@gnu.org Cc: 43633@debbugs.gnu.org, bugs@gnu.support Received: via spool by 43633-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B43633.16011880545647 (code B ref 43633); Sun, 27 Sep 2020 06:28:01 +0000 Received: (at 43633) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Sep 2020 06:27:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48207 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kMQ9m-0001T1-EJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Sep 2020 02:27:34 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:52050) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kMQ9l-0001So-2g for 43633@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Sep 2020 02:27:33 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:47371) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kMQ9f-00036S-LV; Sun, 27 Sep 2020 02:27:27 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4860 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kMQ9X-0002Zp-8C; Sun, 27 Sep 2020 02:27:19 -0400 Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2020 09:27:04 +0300 Message-Id: <838scvpwef.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: (message from Richard Stallman on Sat, 26 Sep 2020 22:42:47 -0400) References: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Richard Stallman > Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2020 22:42:47 -0400 > Cc: 43633@debbugs.gnu.org > > > Emacs is the extensible, customizable, self-documenting real-time > > display editor. > > Are there any editors in widespread use that are not real-time and > display? I know some still exist -- for instance, ed -- but perhaps > it is no longer useful to say "real-time display" in that sentence. The manual text (in "Intro") no longer says "real-time", that was only left in the sentence that starts the Top node. I've now made that say the same as Intro does. From unknown Tue Aug 19 02:51:45 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#43633: 28.0.50; Include definitions in glossary for: extensible, customizable, self-documenting, real-time display editor Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 03:45:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 43633 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 43633@debbugs.gnu.org, bugs@gnu.support Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 43633-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B43633.16012647004463 (code B ref 43633); Mon, 28 Sep 2020 03:45:02 +0000 Received: (at 43633) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Sep 2020 03:45:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50943 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kMk60-00019u-6P for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Sep 2020 23:45:00 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:55706) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kMk5y-00019V-7Z for 43633@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Sep 2020 23:44:58 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:34853) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kMk5s-0004Fb-Ua; Sun, 27 Sep 2020 23:44:52 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kMk5p-0008GS-SP; Sun, 27 Sep 2020 23:44:50 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: <838scvpwef.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Sun, 27 Sep 2020 09:27:04 +0300) References: <838scvpwef.fsf@gnu.org> Message-Id: Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2020 23:44:49 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > The manual text (in "Intro") no longer says "real-time", that was only > left in the sentence that starts the Top node. I've now made that say > the same as Intro does. Thanks. Should we delete "display" also? -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Tue Aug 19 02:51:45 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#43633: 28.0.50; Include definitions in glossary for: extensible, customizable, self-documenting, real-time display editor Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 03:48:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 43633 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jean Louis Cc: 43633@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 43633-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B43633.16012648674786 (code B ref 43633); Mon, 28 Sep 2020 03:48:01 +0000 Received: (at 43633) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Sep 2020 03:47:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50958 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kMk8h-0001F8-7x for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Sep 2020 23:47:47 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:56678) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kMk8f-0001Ew-Qh for 43633@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Sep 2020 23:47:46 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:34946) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kMk8a-0004qV-Fy; Sun, 27 Sep 2020 23:47:40 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kMk8Z-0000FV-M1; Sun, 27 Sep 2020 23:47:39 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: <58D6F493-1E8C-407D-99C1-B3755EE71710@gnu.support> (message from Jean Louis on Sun, 27 Sep 2020 04:42:46 +0000) References: <58D6F493-1E8C-407D-99C1-B3755EE71710@gnu.support> Message-Id: Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2020 23:47:39 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] What do others think? Should we delete the "display" in "display editor"? -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Tue Aug 19 02:51:45 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#43633: 28.0.50; Include definitions in glossary for: extensible, customizable, self-documenting, real-time display editor Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 04:58:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 43633 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: rms@gnu.org, Jean Louis Cc: 43633@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 43633-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B43633.160126907728215 (code B ref 43633); Mon, 28 Sep 2020 04:58:02 +0000 Received: (at 43633) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Sep 2020 04:57:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51177 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kMlEa-0007L1-TO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Sep 2020 00:57:57 -0400 Received: from aserp2130.oracle.com ([141.146.126.79]:37226) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kMlEa-0007Kp-0J for 43633@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Sep 2020 00:57:56 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 08S4rnEq074961; Mon, 28 Sep 2020 04:57:50 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=fS7XezQVgyZaj7deE7LldSBxcbt3N68RM113IkO3+VU=; b=KP2TgGl7vX6dMltTCEQ48jUU1fIaLg2yDDOJNCJxU5UXdaAGxNeSrbnijNyFTbNB8+vb OCf800ZmdOseaTL7iesOLS6beW2GxcBHMfT38u+BF1phHTt8mp5odlAIysYh1WkQaILQ yiXt+fSp7XzmgQy2OhCTWO3roF2yCHh8EeCN9NtU+0oNzZz4qtnb4kpqWULokq7UdOMV lduf/utvexPWa95xCibFRxrsYXrR2mBKRtksWE/9mnBQzvj2hInHsadiHLxbhWmCWF4E PDSJAMCy6WiL1KERniejDNmbhrxI5RYxYgg7sZbY2g4dTXLz8e65XHYeFtXwsK4YMV/V Dg== Received: from userp3030.oracle.com (userp3030.oracle.com [156.151.31.80]) by aserp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 33su5ak2cq-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Sep 2020 04:57:50 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 08S4teVO008596; Mon, 28 Sep 2020 04:57:49 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by userp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 33tfjudy5g-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 28 Sep 2020 04:57:49 +0000 Received: from abhmp0006.oracle.com (abhmp0006.oracle.com [141.146.116.12]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 08S4vlLa001838; Mon, 28 Sep 2020 04:57:47 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2020 21:57:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams References: <58D6F493-1E8C-407D-99C1-B3755EE71710@gnu.support> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5056.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9757 signatures=668680 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2006250000 definitions=main-2009280040 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9757 signatures=668680 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxlogscore=999 suspectscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 priorityscore=1501 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2006250000 definitions=main-2009280040 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > What do others think? Should we delete the "display" in "display editor"= ? Yes. I don't even know what it means. A guess is that a nondisplay editor is one that doesn't use a display (e.g., monitor) - like old teletype line-oriented editors. I guess `ed' or `sed' would be an example of a nondisplay editor. From unknown Tue Aug 19 02:51:45 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#43633: 28.0.50; Include definitions in glossary for: extensible, customizable, self-documenting, real-time display editor Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 06:31:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 43633 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: rms@gnu.org Cc: 43633@debbugs.gnu.org, bugs@gnu.support Received: via spool by 43633-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B43633.16012746375372 (code B ref 43633); Mon, 28 Sep 2020 06:31:01 +0000 Received: (at 43633) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Sep 2020 06:30:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51245 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kMmgH-0001Oa-FI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Sep 2020 02:30:37 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:34356) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kMmgF-0001OL-LD for 43633@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Sep 2020 02:30:35 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:37796) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kMmgA-00083K-CE; Mon, 28 Sep 2020 02:30:30 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2843 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kMmg1-0001Pt-0o; Mon, 28 Sep 2020 02:30:21 -0400 Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 09:30:08 +0300 Message-Id: <83o8lqmn0v.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: (message from Richard Stallman on Sun, 27 Sep 2020 23:44:49 -0400) References: <838scvpwef.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Richard Stallman > Cc: 43633@debbugs.gnu.org, bugs@gnu.support > Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2020 23:44:49 -0400 > > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > The manual text (in "Intro") no longer says "real-time", that was only > > left in the sentence that starts the Top node. I've now made that say > > the same as Intro does. > > Thanks. > > Should we delete "display" also? We did. The whole "real-time display" part was deleted. From unknown Tue Aug 19 02:51:45 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#43633: 28.0.50; Include definitions in glossary for: extensible, customizable, self-documenting, real-time display editor Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 06:33:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 43633 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: rms@gnu.org Cc: 43633@debbugs.gnu.org, bugs@gnu.support Received: via spool by 43633-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B43633.16012747695572 (code B ref 43633); Mon, 28 Sep 2020 06:33:02 +0000 Received: (at 43633) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Sep 2020 06:32:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51249 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kMmiO-0001Ro-SE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Sep 2020 02:32:49 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:34804) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kMmiN-0001Rb-9I for 43633@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Sep 2020 02:32:47 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:37862) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kMmiH-0008Oo-VA; Mon, 28 Sep 2020 02:32:41 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2974 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kMmi4-0005Gl-CW; Mon, 28 Sep 2020 02:32:29 -0400 Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 09:32:16 +0300 Message-Id: <83lfgummxb.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: (message from Richard Stallman on Sun, 27 Sep 2020 23:47:39 -0400) References: <58D6F493-1E8C-407D-99C1-B3755EE71710@gnu.support> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Richard Stallman > Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2020 23:47:39 -0400 > Cc: 43633@debbugs.gnu.org > > What do others think? Should we delete the "display" in "display editor"? It was already deleted. From unknown Tue Aug 19 02:51:45 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#43633: 28.0.50; Include definitions in glossary for: extensible, customizable, self-documenting, real-time display editor Resent-From: Jean Louis Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2020 09:32:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 43633 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Richard Stallman Cc: 43633@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 43633-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B43633.160145831124741 (code B ref 43633); Wed, 30 Sep 2020 09:32:02 +0000 Received: (at 43633) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Sep 2020 09:31:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58229 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kNYSk-0006Qy-QG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 05:31:50 -0400 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:57031) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kNYSi-0006Qk-M8 for 43633@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 05:31:49 -0400 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:197.157.34.183]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 00000000000EFC99.000000005F74507B.00001920; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 02:31:39 -0700 Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2020 12:31:35 +0300 From: Jean Louis Message-ID: <20200930093135.GR18070@protected.rcdrun.com> References: <58D6F493-1E8C-407D-99C1-B3755EE71710@gnu.support> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.14.0 (2020-05-02) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) * Richard Stallman [2020-09-28 06:48]: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > What do others think? Should we delete the "display" in "display > editor"? Yes. It is obsolete today. From unknown Tue Aug 19 02:51:45 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#43633: 28.0.50; Include definitions in glossary for: extensible, customizable, self-documenting, real-time display editor Resent-From: Jean Louis Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2020 11:16:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 43633 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 43633@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 43633-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B43633.160146455210956 (code B ref 43633); Wed, 30 Sep 2020 11:16:01 +0000 Received: (at 43633) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Sep 2020 11:15:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58416 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kNa5Q-0002qe-BA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 07:15:52 -0400 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:59751) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kNa5M-0002qJ-ID for 43633@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 07:15:50 -0400 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:197.157.34.183]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 00000000000F3C76.000000005F7468D3.000021E1; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 04:15:31 -0700 Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2020 14:15:28 +0300 From: Jean Louis Message-ID: <20200930111528.GF31048@protected.rcdrun.com> References: <58D6F493-1E8C-407D-99C1-B3755EE71710@gnu.support> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.14.0 (2020-05-02) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) * Drew Adams [2020-09-28 07:58]: > > What do others think? Should we delete the "display" in "display editor"? > > Yes. I don't even know what it means. A guess is that > a nondisplay editor is one that doesn't use a display > (e.g., monitor) - like old teletype line-oriented editors. > I guess `ed' or `sed' would be an example of a nondisplay > editor. Yes. I think so. I remember that first computers did not have monitors. Calculations have been entered on keyboard on a large box kind of a table (computer) and output went to printer, the printer was printing all the time. One could make nice Betty Boop pictures and other erotic cartoons all made out of letters and numbers. I am sure that some type of editor existed back at that time. But the word "display" may not be directly related to monitor, rather to simple displaying, as full term was "real-time display" which would mean, it changes text in the moment when you see it being changed and it displays text in the moment when you have changed it. Then when monitors arrived, there were probably editors like stream editor sed or ed as line editor, I ma just guessing, and the standard GNU line editor "ed" If I wish to edit with "ed" I would say: $ ed file but then nothing would happen, nothing would be displayed. I would need to do something like: i New line written here . w 22 q then the line "New line written here" would be in the file, as I saved it with "w" for 22 bytes, and quit with "q" Now, at the moment of writin the "New line written here", the line was maybe part of the text, I do not know, but it was not displayed in real time. Thus "real time display" editor is (probably) comparison to line editors. This comparison was useful back in time, today it is hard to explain to people. Jean From unknown Tue Aug 19 02:51:45 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#43633: 28.0.50; Include definitions in glossary for: extensible, customizable, self-documenting, real-time display editor Resent-From: Juri Linkov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2020 19:20:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 43633 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jean Louis Cc: 43633@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, Drew Adams Received: via spool by 43633-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B43633.160149358512142 (code B ref 43633); Wed, 30 Sep 2020 19:20:03 +0000 Received: (at 43633) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Sep 2020 19:19:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33166 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kNhdg-00039f-J0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 15:19:44 -0400 Received: from relay12.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.178.232]:34617) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kNhdP-00038q-FH for 43633@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 15:19:29 -0400 Received: from mail.gandi.net (m91-129-108-13.cust.tele2.ee [91.129.108.13]) (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by relay12.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AF4A0200006; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 19:19:18 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <58D6F493-1E8C-407D-99C1-B3755EE71710@gnu.support> <20200930111528.GF31048@protected.rcdrun.com> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2020 21:50:01 +0300 In-Reply-To: <20200930111528.GF31048@protected.rcdrun.com> (Jean Louis's message of "Wed, 30 Sep 2020 14:15:28 +0300") Message-ID: <878scrjnji.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > If I wish to edit with "ed" I would say: > > $ ed file > > but then nothing would happen, nothing would be displayed. I would > need to do something like: > > i > New line written here > . > w > 22 > q > > then the line "New line written here" would be in the file, as I saved > it with "w" for 22 bytes, and quit with "q" Indeed, and 'ed' is still relevant today on minimized distributions where only 'ed' is available for editing (that even don't provide 'vi'). > Thus "real time display" editor is (probably) comparison to line > editors. This comparison was useful back in time, today it is hard to > explain to people. Emacs can't be described as "real-time" because it doesn't meet the demands of real-time systems according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_computing that at least require deterministic garbage collection. From unknown Tue Aug 19 02:51:45 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#43633: 28.0.50; Include definitions in glossary for: extensible, customizable, self-documenting, real-time display editor Resent-From: Jean Louis Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2020 05:09:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 43633 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Juri Linkov Cc: 43633@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, Drew Adams Received: via spool by 43633-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B43633.16015289383230 (code B ref 43633); Thu, 01 Oct 2020 05:09:01 +0000 Received: (at 43633) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Oct 2020 05:08:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33814 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kNqpu-0000q2-AB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 01 Oct 2020 01:08:58 -0400 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:59193) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kNqpp-0000pl-7j for 43633@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 01 Oct 2020 01:08:57 -0400 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:197.157.34.169]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 00000000000F3C72.000000005F75645C.00000567; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 22:08:43 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2020 08:08:39 +0300 From: Jean Louis Message-ID: <20201001050839.GI19181@protected.rcdrun.com> References: <58D6F493-1E8C-407D-99C1-B3755EE71710@gnu.support> <20200930111528.GF31048@protected.rcdrun.com> <878scrjnji.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <878scrjnji.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.14.0 (2020-05-02) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) * Juri Linkov [2020-09-30 22:19]: > > If I wish to edit with "ed" I would say: > > > > $ ed file > > > > but then nothing would happen, nothing would be displayed. I would > > need to do something like: > > > > i > > New line written here > > . > > w > > 22 > > q > > > > then the line "New line written here" would be in the file, as I saved > > it with "w" for 22 bytes, and quit with "q" > > Indeed, and 'ed' is still relevant today on minimized distributions > where only 'ed' is available for editing (that even don't provide 'vi'). > > > Thus "real time display" editor is (probably) comparison to line > > editors. This comparison was useful back in time, today it is hard to > > explain to people. > > Emacs can't be described as "real-time" because it doesn't meet the demands of > real-time systems according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_computing > that at least require deterministic garbage collection. Terms and words have different definitions and the definition depends of the context. For me, Emacs is real time, but in the context of above mentioned "real time computing" Emacs may not be real time computing. >From Wordnet dictionary: * Overview of noun real_time The noun real time has 2 senses (no senses from tagged texts) 1. real time -- (the actual time that it takes a process to occur; "information is updated in real time") 2. real time -- ((computer science) the time it takes for a process under computer control to occur) Obviously there are different context, and there may be other definitions, so Emacs is real time for the user. The context of "real time display" was related to "ed", and not to real time computing in computer science. Is it not so? Jean From unknown Tue Aug 19 02:51:45 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#43633: 28.0.50; Include definitions in glossary for: extensible, customizable, self-documenting, real-time display editor Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2020 03:52:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 43633 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Juri Linkov Cc: 43633@debbugs.gnu.org, bugs@gnu.support Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 43633-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B43633.160161068210623 (code B ref 43633); Fri, 02 Oct 2020 03:52:02 +0000 Received: (at 43633) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Oct 2020 03:51:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38970 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kOC6M-0002lH-8x for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 01 Oct 2020 23:51:22 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:43462) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kOC6J-0002l3-OM for 43633@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 01 Oct 2020 23:51:20 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:39905) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kOC6E-000495-30; Thu, 01 Oct 2020 23:51:14 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kOC6C-00039M-Hf; Thu, 01 Oct 2020 23:51:12 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: <878scrjnji.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Wed, 30 Sep 2020 21:50:01 +0300) References: <58D6F493-1E8C-407D-99C1-B3755EE71710@gnu.support> <20200930111528.GF31048@protected.rcdrun.com> <878scrjnji.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Message-Id: Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2020 23:51:12 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > Emacs can't be described as "real-time" In the editor context, it means that the editor displays the results of each editing command right away. because it doesn't meet > the demands of real-time systems according to > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_computing That definition is not pertinent here. However, we already deleted that term from the Emacs documentation, so let's stop arguing about it on this list. -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)