GNU bug report logs - #43086
[PATCH] Allow tags backend to not query for TAGS file

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Philip K." <philipk <at> posteo.net>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: [PATCH] Allow tags backend to not query for TAGS file
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2020 14:50:38 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Hi,

the xref backend for etags can be annoying at times, especially in
combination with other backends. This patch should improve the
situation, by allowing the user to configure how and when the etags
backend is activated. The new user option etags-query-file would allow
the backend to never query a TAGS file, or conditionally, depending on
the existence of a TAGS file (in which case it can also be automatically
loaded).

I could imagine this might be extended to allow an auto-generate option,
but that feature seems out of scope of this patch, and probably would
require some interoperation with project.el.

-- 
	Philip K.

[0001-Allow-tags-backend-to-not-query-for-TAGS-file.patch (text/x-patch, inline)]

From 6b141be5123d4cf37d743a9a12818442333658ed Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Philip K <philipk <at> posteo.net>
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2020 14:20:56 +0200
Subject: [PATCH] Allow tags backend to not query for TAGS file

* lisp/progmodes/etags.el (etags-query-file): Add variable
(etags--xref-backend): Respect etags-query-file
---
 lisp/progmodes/etags.el | 33 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++-
 1 file changed, 32 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)

diff --git a/lisp/progmodes/etags.el b/lisp/progmodes/etags.el
index 2c5c36504a..60b162f19e 100644
--- a/lisp/progmodes/etags.el
+++ b/lisp/progmodes/etags.el
@@ -2069,8 +2069,39 @@ etags-xref-find-definitions-tag-order
 If you want `xref-find-definitions' to find the tagged files by their
 file name, add `tag-partial-file-name-match-p' to the list value.")
 
+(defcustom etags-query-file t
+  "Specify how and when to query TAGS file.
+If t, always query if no tags file has been loaded.
+If `check', only query if a TAGS file exists.
+If `check-and-set', automatically set TAGS file if exists, and don't
+query otherwise.
+If `set-or-check', set TAGS file if exists, or query user if not.
+If nil, a new table can be loaded using `visit-tags-table'."
+  :type '(choice (const :tag "Always query" t)
+                 (const :tag "Never query" nil)
+                 (const :tag "Query if exists" check)
+                 (const :tag "Set if exists" check-and-set)
+                 (const :tag "Query if not exists" set-or-check))
+  :version "28.1")
+
 ;;;###autoload
-(defun etags--xref-backend () 'etags)
+(defun etags--xref-backend ()
+  (and (cond ((or (null etags-query-file)
+                  tags-table-computed-list))
+             ((eq etags-query-file 'check)
+              (locate-dominating-file default-directory "TAGS"))
+             ((eq etags-query-file 'check-and-set)
+              (let ((dir (locate-dominating-file default-directory "TAGS")))
+                (when dir
+                  (visit-tags-table dir)
+                  t)))
+             ((eq etags-query-file 'set-or-check)
+              (let ((dir (locate-dominating-file default-directory "TAGS")))
+                (when dir
+                  (visit-tags-table dir))
+                t))
+             (etags-query-file))
+       'etags))
 
 (cl-defmethod xref-backend-identifier-at-point ((_backend (eql etags)))
   (find-tag--default))
-- 
2.26.2

Message #8 received at 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru>
To: "Philip K." <philipk <at> posteo.net>, 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#43086: [PATCH] Allow tags backend to not query for TAGS file
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2020 03:45:17 +0300

Hi!

On 28.08.2020 15:50, Philip K. wrote:

> the xref backend for etags can be annoying at times, especially in
> combination with other backends. This patch should improve the
> situation, by allowing the user to configure how and when the etags
> backend is activated. The new user option etags-query-file would allow
> the backend to never query a TAGS file, or conditionally, depending on
> the existence of a TAGS file (in which case it can also be automatically
> loaded).

This is a interesting patch, but it calls for some discussion:

- The possible values all look pretty clever, but there are a lot of 
them! Do we expect them all to be in demand? Ideally, I'd only leave 2-3 
of them, to reduce the number of workflows we need to care about. The 
rest could probably be set up in individual user configurations in 
find-file-hook (like Projectile does).

- The variable name implies it affects how etags.el works globally, but 
the actual effect seems limited to the xref backend function. We should 
either rename it to something like etags-xref-query-file, or consider 
having it affect tags-completion-at-point-function as well. Maybe 
find-tag too. But given that tags-completion-at-point-function has for a 
long time behaved in the "never query" fashion, perhaps the easiest and 
most backward-compatible option is the former.

- One current persistent annoyance is that currently 
xref-find-references doesn't work well in many files where the xref 
backend is the default one (etags) when ido-mode or icomplete-mode are 
enabled because it prompts for the tags file to do identifier 
completion. I wonder if the "no query" option will help with this, too.

> I could imagine this might be extended to allow an auto-generate option,
> but that feature seems out of scope of this patch, and probably would
> require some interoperation with project.el.

Indeed. Actually, I have an old, WIP patch for tag file auto-generation 
which, yes, uses project.el. I can post it again if you're curious.

Message #11 received at 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Philip K." <philipk <at> posteo.net>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru>
Cc: 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#43086: [PATCH] Allow tags backend to not query for TAGS file
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2020 23:50:54 +0200

Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru> writes:

> Hi!
>
> On 28.08.2020 15:50, Philip K. wrote:
>
>> the xref backend for etags can be annoying at times, especially in
>> combination with other backends. This patch should improve the
>> situation, by allowing the user to configure how and when the etags
>> backend is activated. The new user option etags-query-file would allow
>> the backend to never query a TAGS file, or conditionally, depending on
>> the existence of a TAGS file (in which case it can also be automatically
>> loaded).
>
> This is a interesting patch, but it calls for some discussion:
>
> - The possible values all look pretty clever, but there are a lot of 
> them! Do we expect them all to be in demand? Ideally, I'd only leave 2-3 
> of them, to reduce the number of workflows we need to care about.

I'm ok with that, the variable could also be turned into a hook if
reducing preconfigured options while making it easy to add new
behaviours.

> The rest could probably be set up in individual user configurations in
> find-file-hook (like Projectile does).

I'm not familiar with how Projectile does this, or how this would work
in general? Could you give an example?

> - The variable name implies it affects how etags.el works globally, but 
> the actual effect seems limited to the xref backend function. We should 
> either rename it to something like etags-xref-query-file, or consider 
> having it affect tags-completion-at-point-function as well.

I'm fine with either, but the first option seems simpler, unless there
is still interest in maintaining the non-xref interface.

> - One current persistent annoyance is that currently 
> xref-find-references doesn't work well in many files where the xref 
> backend is the default one (etags) when ido-mode or icomplete-mode are 
> enabled because it prompts for the tags file to do identifier 
> completion. I wonder if the "no query" option will help with this, too.

Unless I'm misunderstanding something, that's exactly the situation
that motivated me to write these patches (just because of Ivy not Ido).

>> I could imagine this might be extended to allow an auto-generate option,
>> but that feature seems out of scope of this patch, and probably would
>> require some interoperation with project.el.
>
> Indeed. Actually, I have an old, WIP patch for tag file auto-generation 
> which, yes, uses project.el. I can post it again if you're curious.

Sure, why not?

-- 
	Philip K.

Message #14 received at 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru>
To: "Philip K." <philipk <at> posteo.net>
Cc: 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#43086: [PATCH] Allow tags backend to not query for TAGS file
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 13:53:46 +0300

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

On 07.09.2020 00:50, Philip K. wrote:
> Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru> writes:
> 
>> Hi!
>>
>> On 28.08.2020 15:50, Philip K. wrote:
>>
>>> the xref backend for etags can be annoying at times, especially in
>>> combination with other backends. This patch should improve the
>>> situation, by allowing the user to configure how and when the etags
>>> backend is activated. The new user option etags-query-file would allow
>>> the backend to never query a TAGS file, or conditionally, depending on
>>> the existence of a TAGS file (in which case it can also be automatically
>>> loaded).
>>
>> This is a interesting patch, but it calls for some discussion:
>>
>> - The possible values all look pretty clever, but there are a lot of
>> them! Do we expect them all to be in demand? Ideally, I'd only leave 2-3
>> of them, to reduce the number of workflows we need to care about.
> 
> I'm ok with that, the variable could also be turned into a hook if
> reducing preconfigured options while making it easy to add new
> behaviours.

Not sure how the direct conversion to a hook would look like.

In any case, when I talked about using a hook (find-file-hook in 
particular), the main benefit I had in mind is that the effect would 
cover all uses of etags.el. Meaning, also tags-completion-at-point-function.

>> The rest could probably be set up in individual user configurations in
>> find-file-hook (like Projectile does).
> 
> I'm not familiar with how Projectile does this, or how this would work
> in general? Could you give an example?

projectile-mode adds projectile-find-file-hook-function to 
find-file-hook, which, upon visiting any file, looks for 
projectile-tags-file-name (usually "TAGS")'s presence in the root of the 
project. When such file exists, it calls (visit-tags-table tags-file t), 
to visit the tags table "locally".

Since project.el does not have a minor mode, and out of general 
(admittedly handwavy) considerations of performance, we don't do that. 
But a user could customize their find-file-hook with a similar logic. If 
you like, you could also add a pre-existing function like that to 
project.el that a user could then just add to find-file-hook.

>> - The variable name implies it affects how etags.el works globally, but
>> the actual effect seems limited to the xref backend function. We should
>> either rename it to something like etags-xref-query-file, or consider
>> having it affect tags-completion-at-point-function as well.
> 
> I'm fine with either, but the first option seems simpler, unless there
> is still interest in maintaining the non-xref interface.

There might be some other benefit to the latter, but it doesn't seem 
trivial, so the former sounds fine to me as well.

>> - One current persistent annoyance is that currently
>> xref-find-references doesn't work well in many files where the xref
>> backend is the default one (etags) when ido-mode or icomplete-mode are
>> enabled because it prompts for the tags file to do identifier
>> completion. I wonder if the "no query" option will help with this, too.
> 
> Unless I'm misunderstanding something, that's exactly the situation
> that motivated me to write these patches (just because of Ivy not Ido).

I set etags-query-file to nil and call xref-find-references with 
ido-mode enabled. And still get queried for a tags file.

Because etags--xref-backend still returns 'etags, but then 
xref-backend-identifier-completion-table calls 
tags-lazy-completion-table, which does the prompting.

If I make etags--xref-backend return nil, I simply get "No applicable 
method: xref-backend-identifier-completion-table, nil" instead.

So a deeper change is needed.

>>> I could imagine this might be extended to allow an auto-generate option,
>>> but that feature seems out of scope of this patch, and probably would
>>> require some interoperation with project.el.
>>
>> Indeed. Actually, I have an old, WIP patch for tag file auto-generation
>> which, yes, uses project.el. I can post it again if you're curious.
> 
> Sure, why not?

Here it is. It might even be functional.

The reason it's not installed yet, is I was looking to create a seamless 
user experience with it, when they don't need to know which tags file is 
visited, and when. And with tags being quickly updated after a file is 
changed and saved.

The related discussion about necessary changes to etags fizzled out, 
however.

[etags-project.diff (text/x-patch, attachment)]

Message #17 received at 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru>
Cc: "Philip K." <philipk <at> posteo.net>, 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#43086: [PATCH] Allow tags backend to not query for TAGS file
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2021 09:25:45 +0100

Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru> writes:

>>> - The possible values all look pretty clever, but there are a lot of
>>> them! Do we expect them all to be in demand? Ideally, I'd only leave 2-3
>>> of them, to reduce the number of workflows we need to care about.
>> I'm ok with that, the variable could also be turned into a hook if
>> reducing preconfigured options while making it easy to add new
>> behaviours.
>
> Not sure how the direct conversion to a hook would look like.
>
> In any case, when I talked about using a hook (find-file-hook in
> particular), the main benefit I had in mind is that the effect would
> cover all uses of etags.el. Meaning, also
> tags-completion-at-point-function.

This was over a year ago, and it's unclear whether we wanted to do in
Philip's patch's direction or not?  

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #20 received at 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk <at> posteo.net>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru>
Subject: Re: bug#43086: [PATCH] Allow tags backend to not query for TAGS file
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 00:02:08 +0000

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:

> Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru> writes:
>
>>>> - The possible values all look pretty clever, but there are a lot of
>>>> them! Do we expect them all to be in demand? Ideally, I'd only leave 2-3
>>>> of them, to reduce the number of workflows we need to care about.
>>> I'm ok with that, the variable could also be turned into a hook if
>>> reducing preconfigured options while making it easy to add new
>>> behaviours.
>>
>> Not sure how the direct conversion to a hook would look like.
>>
>> In any case, when I talked about using a hook (find-file-hook in
>> particular), the main benefit I had in mind is that the effect would
>> cover all uses of etags.el. Meaning, also
>> tags-completion-at-point-function.
>
> This was over a year ago, and it's unclear whether we wanted to do in
> Philip's patch's direction or not?  

What exactly was the issue with my suggestion?

-- 
	Philip Kaludercic

Message #23 received at 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Philip Kaludercic <philipk <at> posteo.net>
Cc: 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru>
Subject: Re: bug#43086: [PATCH] Allow tags backend to not query for TAGS file
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2022 13:36:30 +0200

Philip Kaludercic <philipk <at> posteo.net> writes:

>> This was over a year ago, and it's unclear whether we wanted to do in
>> Philip's patch's direction or not?  
>
> What exactly was the issue with my suggestion?

Dmitry said:

> I set etags-query-file to nil and call xref-find-references with
> ido-mode enabled. And still get queried for a tags file.
> 
> Because etags--xref-backend still returns 'etags, but then
> xref-backend-identifier-completion-table calls
> tags-lazy-completion-table, which does the prompting.
> 
> If I make etags--xref-backend return nil, I simply get "No applicable
> method: xref-backend-identifier-completion-table, nil" instead.
> 
> So a deeper change is needed.

Message #26 received at 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Richard Stallman <rms <at> gnu.org>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: philipk <at> posteo.net, 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, dgutov <at> yandex.ru
Subject: Re: bug#43086: [PATCH] Allow tags backend to not query for TAGS file
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2022 00:07:13 -0400

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

if we want to support a decision not to query, is it clear that this
decision should be determined by the choice of back end>?
Might it be, rather, a personal preference?

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Message #29 received at 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk <at> posteo.net>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru>
Cc: 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#43086: [PATCH] Allow tags backend to not query for TAGS file
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2024 16:39:55 +0000

Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru> writes:

> Hi!
>
> On 28.08.2020 15:50, Philip K. wrote:
>
>> the xref backend for etags can be annoying at times, especially in
>> combination with other backends. This patch should improve the
>> situation, by allowing the user to configure how and when the etags
>> backend is activated. The new user option etags-query-file would allow
>> the backend to never query a TAGS file, or conditionally, depending on
>> the existence of a TAGS file (in which case it can also be automatically
>> loaded).
>
> This is a interesting patch, but it calls for some discussion:
>
> - The possible values all look pretty clever, but there are a lot of
>   them! Do we expect them all to be in demand? Ideally, I'd only leave
>   2-3 of them, to reduce the number of workflows we need to care
>   about. The rest could probably be set up in individual user
>   configurations in find-file-hook (like Projectile does).
>
> - The variable name implies it affects how etags.el works globally,
>   but the actual effect seems limited to the xref backend function. We
>   should either rename it to something like etags-xref-query-file, or
>   consider having it affect tags-completion-at-point-function as
>   well. Maybe find-tag too. But given that
>   tags-completion-at-point-function has for a long time behaved in the
>   "never query" fashion, perhaps the easiest and most
>  backward-compatible option is the former.
>
> - One current persistent annoyance is that currently
>   xref-find-references doesn't work well in many files where the xref
>   backend is the default one (etags) when ido-mode or icomplete-mode
>   are enabled because it prompts for the tags file to do identifier
>   completion. I wonder if the "no query" option will help with this,
>  too.
>
>> I could imagine this might be extended to allow an auto-generate option,
>> but that feature seems out of scope of this patch, and probably would
>> require some interoperation with project.el.
>
> Indeed. Actually, I have an old, WIP patch for tag file
> auto-generation which, yes, uses project.el. I can post it again if
> you're curious.

Hasn't this issue been resolved by `etags-regen-mode'?

-- 
	Philip Kaludercic on peregrine

Message #32 received at 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru>
To: Philip Kaludercic <philipk <at> posteo.net>
Cc: 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#43086: [PATCH] Allow tags backend to not query for TAGS file
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2024 01:16:46 +0300

On 03/09/2024 19:39, Philip Kaludercic wrote:
>>> I could imagine this might be extended to allow an auto-generate option,
>>> but that feature seems out of scope of this patch, and probably would
>>> require some interoperation with project.el.
>> Indeed. Actually, I have an old, WIP patch for tag file
>> auto-generation which, yes, uses project.el. I can post it again if
>> you're curious.
> Hasn't this issue been resolved by `etags-regen-mode'?

The part quoted above was, I think.

What might still be missing, is functioning better without having a tags 
table generated - after all etags-regen-mode is off by default, and it 
might not work for certain projects anyway.

Maybe just like this? This makes Xref identifier completion not query 
for TAGS unless already loaded. In many cases that would be TRT, 
although `C-u M-.` seems to regress (seems like we *would* want to query 
eagerly there).

Adding a user option is still... an option.

diff --git a/lisp/progmodes/etags.el b/lisp/progmodes/etags.el
index d3eb0d46e9b..a4e9abe9b7a 100644
--- a/lisp/progmodes/etags.el
+++ b/lisp/progmodes/etags.el
@@ -2102,7 +2102,9 @@ xref-backend-identifier-at-point

 (cl-defmethod xref-backend-identifier-completion-table ((_backend
                                                          (eql 'etags)))
-  (tags-lazy-completion-table))
+  (and (or tags-file-name
+           tags-table-list)
+       (tags-lazy-completion-table)))

 (cl-defmethod xref-backend-identifier-completion-ignore-case ((_backend
                                                                (eql 
'etags)))

Message #35 received at 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru>
Cc: philipk <at> posteo.net, 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#43086: [PATCH] Allow tags backend to not query for TAGS file
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2024 09:18:46 +0300

> Cc: 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2024 01:16:46 +0300
> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru>
> 
> On 03/09/2024 19:39, Philip Kaludercic wrote:
> >>> I could imagine this might be extended to allow an auto-generate option,
> >>> but that feature seems out of scope of this patch, and probably would
> >>> require some interoperation with project.el.
> >> Indeed. Actually, I have an old, WIP patch for tag file
> >> auto-generation which, yes, uses project.el. I can post it again if
> >> you're curious.
> > Hasn't this issue been resolved by `etags-regen-mode'?
> 
> The part quoted above was, I think.
> 
> What might still be missing, is functioning better without having a tags 
> table generated - after all etags-regen-mode is off by default, and it 
> might not work for certain projects anyway.
> 
> Maybe just like this? This makes Xref identifier completion not query 
> for TAGS unless already loaded. In many cases that would be TRT, 
> although `C-u M-.` seems to regress (seems like we *would* want to query 
> eagerly there).

I don't understand why the obvious way of asking the user whether they
would like to generate the tags table is not the solution here.  What
did I miss?

Message #38 received at 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: philipk <at> posteo.net, 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#43086: [PATCH] Allow tags backend to not query for TAGS file
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2024 03:29:05 +0300

On 07/09/2024 09:18, Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> Maybe just like this? This makes Xref identifier completion not query
>> for TAGS unless already loaded. In many cases that would be TRT,
>> although `C-u M-.` seems to regress (seems like we *would* want to query
>> eagerly there).
> 
> I don't understand why the obvious way of asking the user whether they
> would like to generate the tags table is not the solution here.  What
> did I miss?

I don't know if it's obvious, given that the optimal scenario at the 
beginning of the report describes

  ... allow the backend to never query a TAGS file

Adding a query to avoid querying might not be ideal. And if we did 
query, that would raise a question of where to store the answer (should 
it be global, or per-project, or temporary somehow?).

As it is, we already have a hint of the user preference from the fact 
that they have visited a TAGS file already (or not), or enabled 
etags-regen-mode (or not). It's not ironclad, but we could rely on these 
indicators to decide.

Message #41 received at 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru>
Cc: philipk <at> posteo.net, 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#43086: [PATCH] Allow tags backend to not query for TAGS file
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2024 14:54:05 +0300

> Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2024 03:29:05 +0300
> Cc: philipk <at> posteo.net, 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru>
> 
> On 07/09/2024 09:18, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> 
> >> Maybe just like this? This makes Xref identifier completion not query
> >> for TAGS unless already loaded. In many cases that would be TRT,
> >> although `C-u M-.` seems to regress (seems like we *would* want to query
> >> eagerly there).
> > 
> > I don't understand why the obvious way of asking the user whether they
> > would like to generate the tags table is not the solution here.  What
> > did I miss?
> 
> I don't know if it's obvious, given that the optimal scenario at the 
> beginning of the report describes
> 
>    ... allow the backend to never query a TAGS file

But what do you expect from a backend that depends on TAGS to do when
TAGS is not there?  You yourself just noticed the regression.  Why
would we want that?

AFAIU, the problem here is that the backend can avoid querying when
the TAGS file exists.  But what do you expect it to do when it does
_not_ exist?  We have the regeneration feature now, so I suggested to
ask the user whether to regenerate the file, after which it could be
read without any further prompts.

IOW, the query I suggested was not the query the OP suggested to
avoid, it's a different query due to different kind of trouble.

> Adding a query to avoid querying might not be ideal. And if we did 
> query, that would raise a question of where to store the answer (should 
> it be global, or per-project, or temporary somehow?).

Sorry, you lost me here.

> As it is, we already have a hint of the user preference from the fact 
> that they have visited a TAGS file already (or not), or enabled 
> etags-regen-mode (or not). It's not ironclad, but we could rely on these 
> indicators to decide.

Then regenerate TAGS without asking, if you think it's reasonable.
But letting the backend continue without TAGS is not a reasonable
solution, IMO.

Message #44 received at 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: philipk <at> posteo.net, 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#43086: [PATCH] Allow tags backend to not query for TAGS file
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2024 02:32:46 +0300

On 09/09/2024 14:54, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2024 03:29:05 +0300
>> Cc: philipk <at> posteo.net, 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru>
>>
>> On 07/09/2024 09:18, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>>
>>>> Maybe just like this? This makes Xref identifier completion not query
>>>> for TAGS unless already loaded. In many cases that would be TRT,
>>>> although `C-u M-.` seems to regress (seems like we *would* want to query
>>>> eagerly there).
>>>
>>> I don't understand why the obvious way of asking the user whether they
>>> would like to generate the tags table is not the solution here.  What
>>> did I miss?
>>
>> I don't know if it's obvious, given that the optimal scenario at the
>> beginning of the report describes
>>
>>     ... allow the backend to never query a TAGS file
> 
> But what do you expect from a backend that depends on TAGS to do when
> TAGS is not there?  You yourself just noticed the regression.  Why
> would we want that?

I'm thinking of the xref-find-references case - where the scanner 
doesn't depend on the tags table being available. Just the identifier 
completion step.

Perhaps Philip had other some situations in mind, too.

> AFAIU, the problem here is that the backend can avoid querying when
> the TAGS file exists.  But what do you expect it to do when it does
> _not_ exist? > We have the regeneration feature now, so I suggested to
> ask the user whether to regenerate the file, after which it could be
> read without any further prompts.

We have an existing way to enable etags-regen-mode. And it's a global 
mode, so it's not just an issue of using it that one time - the naive 
solution will make stay on until the end of the session.

Also, if the tags file is not loaded, we're not quite sure whether the 
user wants an auto-generated file, or an existing one.

>> As it is, we already have a hint of the user preference from the fact
>> that they have visited a TAGS file already (or not), or enabled
>> etags-regen-mode (or not). It's not ironclad, but we could rely on these
>> indicators to decide.
> 
> Then regenerate TAGS without asking, if you think it's reasonable.
> But letting the backend continue without TAGS is not a reasonable
> solution, IMO.

How do you feel about etags-regen-mode being on by default in some next 
Emacs release? It shouldn't conflict with the manual invocations of 'M-x 
visit-tags-file' - and of course if any cases come up we'll work on 
fixing those.

Message #47 received at 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru>
Cc: philipk <at> posteo.net, 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#43086: [PATCH] Allow tags backend to not query for TAGS file
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2024 14:41:43 +0300

> Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2024 02:32:46 +0300
> Cc: philipk <at> posteo.net, 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru>
> 
> >>> I don't understand why the obvious way of asking the user whether they
> >>> would like to generate the tags table is not the solution here.  What
> >>> did I miss?
> >>
> >> I don't know if it's obvious, given that the optimal scenario at the
> >> beginning of the report describes
> >>
> >>     ... allow the backend to never query a TAGS file
> > 
> > But what do you expect from a backend that depends on TAGS to do when
> > TAGS is not there?  You yourself just noticed the regression.  Why
> > would we want that?
> 
> I'm thinking of the xref-find-references case - where the scanner 
> doesn't depend on the tags table being available. Just the identifier 
> completion step.

Completion is also important, IMO.

> > AFAIU, the problem here is that the backend can avoid querying when
> > the TAGS file exists.  But what do you expect it to do when it does
> > _not_ exist? > We have the regeneration feature now, so I suggested to
> > ask the user whether to regenerate the file, after which it could be
> > read without any further prompts.
> 
> We have an existing way to enable etags-regen-mode. And it's a global 
> mode, so it's not just an issue of using it that one time - the naive 
> solution will make stay on until the end of the session.

We could in this particular case enable it once, then disable it after
regenerating TAGS.

> Also, if the tags file is not loaded, we're not quite sure whether the 
> user wants an auto-generated file, or an existing one.

The query should allow the user to tell us his/her preference, no?

> >> As it is, we already have a hint of the user preference from the fact
> >> that they have visited a TAGS file already (or not), or enabled
> >> etags-regen-mode (or not). It's not ironclad, but we could rely on these
> >> indicators to decide.
> > 
> > Then regenerate TAGS without asking, if you think it's reasonable.
> > But letting the backend continue without TAGS is not a reasonable
> > solution, IMO.
> 
> How do you feel about etags-regen-mode being on by default in some next 
> Emacs release? It shouldn't conflict with the manual invocations of 'M-x 
> visit-tags-file' - and of course if any cases come up we'll work on 
> fixing those.

As long as there's a way of turning it off, I don't think I will mind
too much.

Message #50 received at 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: dgutov <at> yandex.ru
Cc: philipk <at> posteo.net, 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#43086: [PATCH] Allow tags backend to not query for TAGS file
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2024 15:45:05 +0300

> Cc: philipk <at> posteo.net, 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2024 14:41:43 +0300
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
> 
> > How do you feel about etags-regen-mode being on by default in some next 
> > Emacs release? It shouldn't conflict with the manual invocations of 'M-x 
> > visit-tags-file' - and of course if any cases come up we'll work on 
> > fixing those.
> 
> As long as there's a way of turning it off, I don't think I will mind
> too much.

Come to think about this: this mode runs 'etags' without any special
switches, right?  Then what will turning this mode ON do in the Emacs
repository, where our 'etags' command is very heavily customized (see
src/Makefile.in)?

Message #53 received at 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: philipk <at> posteo.net, 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#43086: [PATCH] Allow tags backend to not query for TAGS file
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2024 16:30:18 +0300

On 10/09/2024 14:41, Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>>> But what do you expect from a backend that depends on TAGS to do when
>>> TAGS is not there?  You yourself just noticed the regression.  Why
>>> would we want that?
>>
>> I'm thinking of the xref-find-references case - where the scanner
>> doesn't depend on the tags table being available. Just the identifier
>> completion step.
> 
> Completion is also important, IMO.

Just not always worth the extra query or wait time.

>> We have an existing way to enable etags-regen-mode. And it's a global
>> mode, so it's not just an issue of using it that one time - the naive
>> solution will make stay on until the end of the session.
> 
> We could in this particular case enable it once, then disable it after
> regenerating TAGS.

I'm not sure I'd want a one-time generation of tags which never gets 
updated afterward. Not for me, nor for an inexperienced user who would 
likely get puzzled at some point about why the index not updating.

>> Also, if the tags file is not loaded, we're not quite sure whether the
>> user wants an auto-generated file, or an existing one.
> 
> The query should allow the user to tell us his/her preference, no?

For that we need to decide on the options and the possible lifetimes of 
the answer in advance. That's all I'm saying: it's not an obvious "just 
ask the user".

>> How do you feel about etags-regen-mode being on by default in some next
>> Emacs release? It shouldn't conflict with the manual invocations of 'M-x
>> visit-tags-file' - and of course if any cases come up we'll work on
>> fixing those.
> 
> As long as there's a way of turning it off, I don't think I will mind
> too much.

Great! As long as nobody objects in the coming days I'll switch the 
default value.

Message #56 received at 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: philipk <at> posteo.net, 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#43086: [PATCH] Allow tags backend to not query for TAGS file
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2024 16:32:21 +0300

On 10/09/2024 15:45, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> Cc: philipk <at> posteo.net, 43086 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2024 14:41:43 +0300
>> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
>>
>>> How do you feel about etags-regen-mode being on by default in some next
>>> Emacs release? It shouldn't conflict with the manual invocations of 'M-x
>>> visit-tags-file' - and of course if any cases come up we'll work on
>>> fixing those.
>>
>> As long as there's a way of turning it off, I don't think I will mind
>> too much.
> 
> Come to think about this: this mode runs 'etags' without any special
> switches, right?  Then what will turning this mode ON do in the Emacs
> repository, where our 'etags' command is very heavily customized (see
> src/Makefile.in)?

etags-regen-mode doesn't know how to parse Makefile.in, and it doesn't 
seem feasible, so it needs the user to customize 
`etags-regen-regexp-alist` for any special rules.

That's already done in the Emacs repo, see our .dir-locals.el.

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