From unknown Sat Jun 21 05:14:30 2025 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#4290: 23.1; (elisp)Anonymous Functions - unclear about #' Reply-To: "Drew Adams" , 4290@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs 2Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 21:10:06 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 4290 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.125158006721928 (code B ref -1); Sat, 29 Aug 2009 21:10:06 +0000 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 29 Aug 2009 21:07:47 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=4.0 tests=AWL,FOURLA autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n7TL7jpA021915 for ; Sat, 29 Aug 2009 14:07:46 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MhV9F-0001B7-Bx for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:07:45 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MhV9A-0001A8-Uv for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:07:44 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=36361 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MhV9A-0001A1-Lq for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:07:40 -0400 Received: from acsinet12.oracle.com ([141.146.126.234]:20588) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MhV99-0003r8-Ve for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:07:40 -0400 Received: from rgminet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by acsinet12.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n7TL6x3V027451 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sat, 29 Aug 2009 21:07:01 GMT Received: from abhmt015.oracle.com (abhmt015.oracle.com [141.146.116.24]) by rgminet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n7TL7XGU003990 for ; Sat, 29 Aug 2009 21:07:34 GMT Received: from dradamslap1 (/141.144.88.200) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 29 Aug 2009 14:07:33 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 14:07:31 -0700 Message-ID: <3633B0285FB94C2FB4A96A411451331D@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Acoo7LjVlQDIwGSCS06yOdIRDUbSmA== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Source-IP: abhmt015.oracle.com [141.146.116.24] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090204.4A999895.018D:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) This Info node is unclear. It combines pre-Emacs 22 text that explicitly says that lambda forms are *not* byte-compiled unless you use `#'' or `function', with this statement that says that they are: Nowadays it is possible to omit `function' entirely, like this: (defun double-property (symbol prop) (change-property symbol prop (lambda (x) (* 2 x)))) This is because `lambda' itself implies `function'. What should be said is something like this: "Starting with Emacs 22, a lambda form is byte-compiled when it is used as a function, regardless of whether it is preceded by `function' or `#''. With Emacs versions prior to 22, you must explicitly use `#'' or `function' if you want the form to be byte-compiled." This means rewording or replacing the paragraph that says that unless you use `function' a lambda form won't be byte-compiled. The example and its accompanying text need to be clarified. In GNU Emacs 23.1.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2009-07-29 on SOFT-MJASON Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (4.4)' From unknown Sat Jun 21 05:14:30 2025 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#4290: 23.1; (elisp)Anonymous Functions - unclear about #' Reply-To: Chong Yidong , 4290@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: Chong Yidong Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs 2Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 02:10:05 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-Emacs-PR-Message: followup 4290 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by 4290-submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B4290.125272093615415 (code B ref 4290); Sat, 12 Sep 2009 02:10:05 +0000 Received: (at 4290) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 12 Sep 2009 02:02:16 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 required=4.0 tests=AWL autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from pantheon-po45.its.yale.edu (pantheon-po45.its.yale.edu [130.132.50.79]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n8C22FBF015408 for <4290@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 19:02:16 -0700 Received: from furry (dhcp128036014244.central.yale.edu [128.36.14.244]) (authenticated bits=0) by pantheon-po45.its.yale.edu (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n8C229jP026224 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 11 Sep 2009 22:02:09 -0400 Received: by furry (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D72C5C070; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 22:02:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Chong Yidong To: "Drew Adams" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, 4290@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 22:02:09 -0400 Message-ID: <87my50gbtq.fsf@stupidchicken.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-YaleITSMailFilter: Version 1.2c (attachment(s) not renamed) > This Info node is unclear. It combines pre-Emacs 22 text that > explicitly says that lambda forms are *not* byte-compiled unless you > use `#'' or `function', with this statement that says that they are: > Nowadays it is possible to omit `function' entirely, like this: > (defun double-property (symbol prop) > (change-property symbol prop (lambda (x) (* 2 x)))) > This is because `lambda' itself implies `function'. Thanks for spotting this. Hmm---is `function' still useful for anything? From unknown Sat Jun 21 05:14:30 2025 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#4290: 23.1; (elisp)Anonymous Functions - unclear about #' Reply-To: "Drew Adams" , 4290@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs 2Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 06:20:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-Emacs-PR-Message: followup 4290 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by 4290-submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B4290.125273599728682 (code B ref 4290); Sat, 12 Sep 2009 06:20:03 +0000 Received: (at 4290) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 12 Sep 2009 06:13:17 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=4.0 tests=AWL autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from acsinet11.oracle.com (acsinet11.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n8C6DFne028668 for <4290@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 23:13:16 -0700 Received: from rgminet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by acsinet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n8C6EDtu004887 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 12 Sep 2009 06:14:14 GMT Received: from abhmt009.oracle.com (abhmt009.oracle.com [141.146.116.18]) by rgminet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n8C6D7ns022388; Sat, 12 Sep 2009 06:13:07 GMT Received: from dradamslap1 (/141.144.72.190) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 23:13:05 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Chong Yidong'" Cc: , <4290@debbugs.gnu.org> References: <87my50gbtq.fsf@stupidchicken.com> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 23:13:03 -0700 Message-ID: <6DD4D33E0F8047689FE8694B588D9789@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87my50gbtq.fsf@stupidchicken.com> Thread-Index: AcozTRkYfcXGxCuzSFuCCJ17y1IyQQAIsYNQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Source-IP: abhmt009.oracle.com [141.146.116.18] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090203.4AAB3BF2.00C3:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 > > This Info node is unclear. It combines pre-Emacs 22 text that > > explicitly says that lambda forms are *not* byte-compiled unless you > > use `#'' or `function', with this statement that says that they are: > > > Nowadays it is possible to omit `function' entirely, like this: > > (defun double-property (symbol prop) > > (change-property symbol prop (lambda (x) (* 2 x)))) > > This is because `lambda' itself implies `function'. > > Thanks for spotting this. > > Hmm---is `function' still useful for anything? At the very least it is needed for comptability with older Emacs versions. It needs to be tolerated, at least. From unknown Sat Jun 21 05:14:30 2025 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#4290: 23.1; (elisp)Anonymous Functions - unclear about #' Reply-To: Stefan Monnier , 4290@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs 2Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 19:50:05 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-Emacs-PR-Message: followup 4290 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by 4290-submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B4290.125278449712072 (code B ref 4290); Sat, 12 Sep 2009 19:50:05 +0000 Received: (at 4290) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 12 Sep 2009 19:41:37 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=4.0 tests=AWL autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from ironport2-out.pppoe.ca (ironport2-out.pppoe.ca [206.248.154.183] (may be forged)) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n8CJfZ6k012069 for <4290@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Sat, 12 Sep 2009 12:41:36 -0700 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AuAEAN+Wq0pFpZBe/2dsb2JhbACBU9gShBgFh3Q X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.44,376,1249272000"; d="scan'208";a="45608542" Received: from 69-165-144-94.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([69.165.144.94]) by ironport2-out.pppoe.ca with ESMTP; 12 Sep 2009 15:39:40 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 1F5AE83FD; Sat, 12 Sep 2009 15:41:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Chong Yidong Cc: "Drew Adams" , 4290@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <87my50gbtq.fsf@stupidchicken.com> Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 15:41:15 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87my50gbtq.fsf@stupidchicken.com> (Chong Yidong's message of "Fri, 11 Sep 2009 22:02:09 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Thanks for spotting this. > Hmm---is `function' still useful for anything? Well, it's just as useful as ever. I.e. it's useless when you consider that its implementation is the same as `quote', but it's otherwise indispensable (e.g. look at the implementation of the `lambda' macro in subr.el). Stefan From unknown Sat Jun 21 05:14:30 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.427 (Entity 5.427) X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (Emacs bug Tracking System) To: "Drew Adams" Subject: bug#4290 closed by Chong Yidong (Re: 23.1; (elisp)Anonymous Functions - unclear about #') Message-ID: References: <87zl8zbolf.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <3633B0285FB94C2FB4A96A411451331D@us.oracle.com> X-Emacs-PR-Message: they-closed 4290 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 4290@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 01:55:09 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1252806909-1568-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1252806909-1568-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" This is an automatic notification regarding your bug report which was filed against the emacs package: #4290: 23.1; (elisp)Anonymous Functions - unclear about #' It has been closed by Chong Yidong . Their explanation is attached below along with your original report. If this explanation is unsatisfactory and you have not received a better one in a separate message then please contact Chong Yidong by replying to this email. --=20 4290: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D4290 Emacs Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1252806909-1568-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 4290-done) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 13 Sep 2009 01:48:25 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from cyd.mit.edu (CYD.MIT.EDU [18.115.2.24]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n8D1mN67000725 for <4290-done@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Sat, 12 Sep 2009 18:48:24 -0700 Received: by cyd.mit.edu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8471E57E259; Sat, 12 Sep 2009 21:49:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Chong Yidong To: "Drew Adams" Cc: 4290-done@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: 23.1; (elisp)Anonymous Functions - unclear about #' Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 21:49:48 -0400 Message-ID: <87zl8zbolf.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I have clarified the text. Thanks for the bug report. ------------=_1252806909-1568-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 29 Aug 2009 21:07:47 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=4.0 tests=AWL,FOURLA autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n7TL7jpA021915 for ; Sat, 29 Aug 2009 14:07:46 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MhV9F-0001B7-Bx for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:07:45 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MhV9A-0001A8-Uv for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:07:44 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=36361 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MhV9A-0001A1-Lq for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:07:40 -0400 Received: from acsinet12.oracle.com ([141.146.126.234]:20588) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MhV99-0003r8-Ve for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:07:40 -0400 Received: from rgminet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by acsinet12.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n7TL6x3V027451 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sat, 29 Aug 2009 21:07:01 GMT Received: from abhmt015.oracle.com (abhmt015.oracle.com [141.146.116.24]) by rgminet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n7TL7XGU003990 for ; Sat, 29 Aug 2009 21:07:34 GMT Received: from dradamslap1 (/141.144.88.200) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 29 Aug 2009 14:07:33 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: Subject: 23.1; (elisp)Anonymous Functions - unclear about #' Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 14:07:31 -0700 Message-ID: <3633B0285FB94C2FB4A96A411451331D@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Acoo7LjVlQDIwGSCS06yOdIRDUbSmA== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Source-IP: abhmt015.oracle.com [141.146.116.24] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090204.4A999895.018D:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) This Info node is unclear. It combines pre-Emacs 22 text that explicitly says that lambda forms are *not* byte-compiled unless you use `#'' or `function', with this statement that says that they are: Nowadays it is possible to omit `function' entirely, like this: (defun double-property (symbol prop) (change-property symbol prop (lambda (x) (* 2 x)))) This is because `lambda' itself implies `function'. What should be said is something like this: "Starting with Emacs 22, a lambda form is byte-compiled when it is used as a function, regardless of whether it is preceded by `function' or `#''. With Emacs versions prior to 22, you must explicitly use `#'' or `function' if you want the form to be byte-compiled." This means rewording or replacing the paragraph that says that unless you use `function' a lambda form won't be byte-compiled. The example and its accompanying text need to be clarified. In GNU Emacs 23.1.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2009-07-29 on SOFT-MJASON Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (4.4)' ------------=_1252806909-1568-1--