From unknown Sat Aug 16 11:33:52 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#42748: 26.3; Should `move-(beginning|end)-of-line' be in the Elisp manual? Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2020 16:41:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 42748 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 42748@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.15968184366213 (code B ref -1); Fri, 07 Aug 2020 16:41:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Aug 2020 16:40:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57445 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k45Q4-0001c8-1M for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Aug 2020 12:40:36 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:39374) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k45Q2-0001c1-Vm for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Aug 2020 12:40:35 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40038) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k45Q2-000417-OL for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; 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Fri, 07 Aug 2020 16:40:26 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 077GdFTK015923 for ; Fri, 7 Aug 2020 16:40:25 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 32qy8qyppk-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Fri, 07 Aug 2020 16:40:25 +0000 Received: from abhmp0004.oracle.com (abhmp0004.oracle.com [141.146.116.10]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 077GeOrM018802 for ; Fri, 7 Aug 2020 16:40:24 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <7288bc6b-3b02-4c49-9352-0f5da3a933b0@default> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 09:40:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5017.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9706 signatures=668679 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=1 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2006250000 definitions=main-2008070116 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9706 signatures=668679 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=1 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 clxscore=1015 mlxscore=0 priorityscore=1501 adultscore=0 impostorscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2006250000 definitions=main-2008070116 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=141.146.126.78; envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=aserp2120.oracle.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/08/07 12:40:29 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.1-3.10 [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -63 X-Spam_score: -6.4 X-Spam_bar: ------ X-Spam_report: (-6.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) (elisp) `Text Lines' documents `(beginning|end)-of-line'. It doesn't document `move-(beginning|end)-of-line'. The Emacs manual documents the latter and not the former. Is this the best approach, or did the Elisp manual perhaps just not get updated when `C-a' and `C-e' were changed to use the `move-*' commands? In GNU Emacs 26.3 (build 1, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2019-08-29 Repository revision: 96dd0196c28bc36779584e47fffcca433c9309cd Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 10.0.18362 Configured using: `configure --without-dbus --host=3Dx86_64-w64-mingw32 --without-compress-install 'CFLAGS=3D-O2 -static -g3'' From unknown Sat Aug 16 11:33:52 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Drew Adams Subject: bug#42748: closed (Re: bug#42748: 26.3; Should `move-(beginning|end)-of-line' be in the Elisp manual?) Message-ID: References: <837du97dda.fsf@gnu.org> <7288bc6b-3b02-4c49-9352-0f5da3a933b0@default> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 42748 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 42748@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2020 08:27:01 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1596875221-29763-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1596875221-29763-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #42748: 26.3; Should `move-(beginning|end)-of-line' be in the Elisp manual? which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 42748@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 42748: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D42748 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1596875221-29763-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 42748-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Aug 2020 08:26:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58022 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k4KB4-0007iu-75 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Aug 2020 04:26:06 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:37070) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k4KB2-0007iQ-O2 for 42748-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Aug 2020 04:26:05 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:43870) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k4KAx-00042s-1a; Sat, 08 Aug 2020 04:25:59 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2796 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1k4KAv-0005a3-TA; Sat, 08 Aug 2020 04:25:58 -0400 Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2020 11:25:53 +0300 Message-Id: <837du97dda.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: <7288bc6b-3b02-4c49-9352-0f5da3a933b0@default> (message from Drew Adams on Fri, 7 Aug 2020 09:40:23 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: bug#42748: 26.3; Should `move-(beginning|end)-of-line' be in the Elisp manual? References: <7288bc6b-3b02-4c49-9352-0f5da3a933b0@default> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 42748-done Cc: 42748-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 09:40:23 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > > (elisp) `Text Lines' documents `(beginning|end)-of-line'. It doesn't > document `move-(beginning|end)-of-line'. The Emacs manual documents > the latter and not the former. Is this the best approach, or did the > Elisp manual perhaps just not get updated when `C-a' and `C-e' were > changed to use the `move-*' commands? It looks like Lisp programs use beginning-of-line and end-of-line overwhelmingly more than the move-* counterparts, so it seems like the discrepancy is actually justified. So I'm closing this bug report. ------------=_1596875221-29763-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Aug 2020 16:40:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57445 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k45Q4-0001c8-1M for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Aug 2020 12:40:36 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:39374) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k45Q2-0001c1-Vm for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Aug 2020 12:40:35 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40038) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k45Q2-000417-OL for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 07 Aug 2020 12:40:34 -0400 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:34176) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k45Q0-0003GI-Dz for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 07 Aug 2020 12:40:34 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 077GcIXb193824 for ; Fri, 7 Aug 2020 16:40:26 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : subject : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=BqHeuk3OeCxzToKWrmUPOqUp/lGyTUYFmKfih3msmwc=; b=COgj3l7bflCcQHkEIh9nrzzPnrJ94BLTaM359fJQeSksudJ6XmQo9Nd8CoPrNPkwXYuQ B2lwzIzr2RqsMnaQUyGD4waSBzu8lhRi2x2o7xp5zGbfZytBAgB/4dqBdqqOX2xhxdfO viFruwa+x4n9eU/wCd0NLfNZlMuXrYVjlC15nbc+m96ZMQHFLv6PAUfderQGDkvmTx2v 8HrZdP3fV5f87/9LTvjeX7TsB99qsr5g5DTo6YWi0ZwoUyGoIuuRN2hE6BoV0GG60CNj 3QMwdJvGjLfc4LkDDTiVxlcwohRKcLhroaJ2jepA6P5iRq6Yc9w+iCvJbS6jkiosHG3S 2Q== Received: from userp3020.oracle.com (userp3020.oracle.com [156.151.31.79]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 32r6ep9jfw-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 07 Aug 2020 16:40:26 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 077GdFTK015923 for ; Fri, 7 Aug 2020 16:40:25 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 32qy8qyppk-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Fri, 07 Aug 2020 16:40:25 +0000 Received: from abhmp0004.oracle.com (abhmp0004.oracle.com [141.146.116.10]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 077GeOrM018802 for ; Fri, 7 Aug 2020 16:40:24 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <7288bc6b-3b02-4c49-9352-0f5da3a933b0@default> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 09:40:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 26.3; Should `move-(beginning|end)-of-line' be in the Elisp manual? X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5017.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9706 signatures=668679 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=1 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2006250000 definitions=main-2008070116 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9706 signatures=668679 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=1 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 clxscore=1015 mlxscore=0 priorityscore=1501 adultscore=0 impostorscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2006250000 definitions=main-2008070116 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=141.146.126.78; envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=aserp2120.oracle.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/08/07 12:40:29 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.1-3.10 [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -63 X-Spam_score: -6.4 X-Spam_bar: ------ X-Spam_report: (-6.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) (elisp) `Text Lines' documents `(beginning|end)-of-line'. It doesn't document `move-(beginning|end)-of-line'. The Emacs manual documents the latter and not the former. Is this the best approach, or did the Elisp manual perhaps just not get updated when `C-a' and `C-e' were changed to use the `move-*' commands? In GNU Emacs 26.3 (build 1, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2019-08-29 Repository revision: 96dd0196c28bc36779584e47fffcca433c9309cd Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 10.0.18362 Configured using: `configure --without-dbus --host=3Dx86_64-w64-mingw32 --without-compress-install 'CFLAGS=3D-O2 -static -g3'' ------------=_1596875221-29763-1-- From unknown Sat Aug 16 11:33:52 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#42748: 26.3; Should `move-(beginning|end)-of-line' be in the Elisp manual? Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2020 02:00:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 42748 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: eliz@gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, 42748@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 42748-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B42748.159693839220773 (code B ref 42748); Sun, 09 Aug 2020 02:00:02 +0000 Received: (at 42748) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Aug 2020 01:59:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59806 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k4acq-0005Oz-01 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Aug 2020 21:59:52 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35566) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k4aco-0005Ol-M0 for 42748@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Aug 2020 21:59:51 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:53706) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k4acj-0007fU-9J; Sat, 08 Aug 2020 21:59:45 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1k4ach-0006Sf-7L; Sat, 08 Aug 2020 21:59:43 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: <837du97dda.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Sat, 08 Aug 2020 11:25:53 +0300) References: <7288bc6b-3b02-4c49-9352-0f5da3a933b0@default> <837du97dda.fsf@gnu.org> Message-Id: Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2020 21:59:43 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > (elisp) `Text Lines' documents `(beginning|end)-of-line'. It doesn't > > document `move-(beginning|end)-of-line'. The Emacs manual documents > > the latter and not the former. Is this the best approach, or did the > > Elisp manual perhaps just not get updated when `C-a' and `C-e' were > > changed to use the `move-*' commands? The difference between the keyboard commands and the basic functions is intentional. THe basic functions are useful in Lisp programs; the move- commands are on C-a and C-e but are not worth documenting for Lisp programs to call. -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)