From unknown Tue Jun 17 01:44:13 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#42708: Let users copy "*Char Help*" buffer Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?=E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC?= Dan Jacobson Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2020 15:58:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 42708 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 42708@debbugs.gnu.org Cc: rms@gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.15965566681055 (code B ref -1); Tue, 04 Aug 2020 15:58:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Aug 2020 15:57:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48919 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k2zK0-0000Gx-Dd for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Aug 2020 11:57:48 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:47110) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k2zJy-0000Gp-4t for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; 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Tue, 4 Aug 2020 08:57:35 -0700 (PDT) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a99 From: =?UTF-8?Q?=E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC?= Dan Jacobson Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2020 21:41:17 +0800 Message-ID: <87r1smy1du.5.fsf@jidanni.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: 0 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduiedrjeeigdeliecutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggvpdfftffgtefojffquffvnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhephffvufffkfggtgesmhdtreertddtjeenucfhrhhomhepnjjnnjcuffgrnhculfgrtghosghsohhnuceojhhiuggrnhhnihesjhhiuggrnhhnihdrohhrgheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepvdfftddvleektdelueekfeevtddvhfegfeeuueelvdfhheegfeegjeffgeefvdegnecukfhppedvvddtrddugedtrdduhedrvdegheenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhhouggvpehsmhhtphdphhgvlhhopehjihgurghnnhhirdhorhhgpdhinhgvthepvddvtddrudegtddrudehrddvgeehpdhrvghtuhhrnhdqphgrthhhpeeprehuthhfqdekreeureehiehmpfehnfhiheehsgevkeerpecuffgrnhculfgrtghosghsohhnuceojhhiuggrnhhnihesjhhiuggrnhhnihdrohhrgheqpdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepjhhiuggrnhhnihesjhhiuggrnhhnihdrohhrghdpnhhrtghpthhtoheprhhmshesghhnuhdrohhrgh Received-SPF: pass client-ip=23.83.209.48; envelope-from=jidanni@jidanni.org; helo=dog.birch.relay.mailchannels.net X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/08/04 11:57:35 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -30 X-Spam_score: -3.1 X-Spam_bar: --- X-Spam_report: (-3.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain There is a buffer "*Char Help*" that emacs makes sure the user is never able to copy. (What if Stallman found out about this?) First, if the user tries C-x o, to maneuver from the minibuffer into the *Char Help* buffer, emacs already knows the user will try this trick, and thwarts it right away, despite C-x not being explicitly listed in the prompt, --=-=-= Content-Type: image/jpeg Content-Disposition: inline; filename=22566-0.jpg Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: *Char Help* prompt /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAUDBAQEAwUEBAQFBQUGBwwIBwcHBw8LCwkMEQ8SEhEP ERETFhwXExQaFRERGCEYGh0dHx8fExciJCIeJBweHx7/2wBDAQUFBQcGBw4ICA4eFBEUHh4eHh4e Hh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh7/wAARCABBA6EDASIA AhEBAxEB/8QAGwABAAIDAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYIBQcJAwT/xABLEAABAwIEAwYFAgMEBgYLAAAC AQMEAAUGBxESE1eVFhchItLTFBUxVpMjMkFCUQgkJTM4YWJxhLQ0NTZSdrU3Q0ZUc4GFkZSisf/E ABkBAQADAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACAwQBBf/EADURAAEDAgQDBgUFAQADAQAAAAEAAhEDIQQSMUEF UWETFCJxofAGMpGx0RVCgcHhUiNi8YL/2gAMAwEAAhEDEQA/ANL/AAc3ui+L+X3T4X/3nshG+H/6 Rp/1lrxfr4fT6/p/StNVtH/BOwP/ALL/ADT/AOo/Mf8AN/8Axf2//r/t1q6oM381JyUpSpqKUpSi 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6uiqRNtVF+EDhTGcjIZB1JsReQef1WNv0KTIfzKxTDYkybBc2Sdh3JIrzcd7iXOMe1CcAdSTzIqf 1AtNUTWtXVuPtTkDyzvPUnfep2pyB5Z3nqTvvV2rW7QzHuSVVw/AnCMLC/NcRaLBoaJ5m1yIHQK5 /wDYj/0YMI/8b/zr9Uz/ALbf+k/i7/gv+SYrZWCP7UuGcF4XiYZwzh68wLTD3/Dx9WnNm8yMvMZK S6kRL4r/AB/pUMxvmlk9jTFEzE2JsA3mfdpmz4iR8YTe/YAgPlB1BTQRFPBP4f1qqei3R1WgqVuP tTkDyzvPUnfep2pyB5Z3nqTvvUnokdVpylbj7U5A8s7z1J33qUnokdViv7U//p5xH/wv/KtVrGlK kuJSlKIlKUoiUpSiJSlKIpdgL/srmB/4ea/80gUwF/2VzA/8PNf+aQKUoiiNKUoiUpSiJSlKIlKU oiUpSiJSlKIlKUoiUpSiJSlKIlKUoiUpSiJSlKIlKUoiUpSiJSlKIlKUoiUpSiJSlKIlKUoiUpSi JSlKIlKUoiUpSiJSlKIlKUoiUpSiJSlKIlKUoiUpSiJSlKIlKUoiUpSiJSlKIlKUoiUpSiJSlKIl KUoiUpSiJSlKIlKUoiUpSiJSlKIlKUoiUpSiJSlKIlKUoiUpSiJSlKIlKUoiUpSiJSlKIlKUoiUp SiL/2Q== --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Second, one might think "Oh, the *Char Help* buffer might be left around later and then we can copy it." Nope, the emacs police have that one covered too. It is destroyed right away after use, faster than Jim Phelps' burning classified audio tape in Mission Impossible. There is only one place that those "you are not allowed to copy" police cannot control: when viewed with emacs -nw. (Oops, I leaked it.) Else one's only option is a screenshot. So where does one encounter this disappearing "*Char Help*" buffer? Well when using C runs the command dired-do-copy (found in dired-mode-map), which is an interactive autoloaded compiled Lisp function in =E2=80=98dired-aux.= el=E2=80=99. emacs-version "26.3" And why would one want to copy the contents of the boring "*Char Help*" buffer? Well, that's the subject of my next bug report... --=-=-=-- From unknown Tue Jun 17 01:44:13 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#42708: Let users copy "*Char Help*" buffer Resent-From: Juri Linkov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2020 00:25:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 42708 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: =?UTF-8?Q?=E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC?= Dan Jacobson Cc: 42708@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 42708-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B42708.15965870988753 (code B ref 42708); Wed, 05 Aug 2020 00:25:01 +0000 Received: (at 42708) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Aug 2020 00:24:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49364 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k37Eo-0002H6-5c for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Aug 2020 20:24:58 -0400 Received: from relay1-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.193]:58397) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k37Em-0002Gs-HC for 42708@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Aug 2020 20:24:57 -0400 X-Originating-IP: 91.129.102.47 Received: from mail.gandi.net (m91-129-102-47.cust.tele2.ee [91.129.102.47]) (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by relay1-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id ADE75240002; Wed, 5 Aug 2020 00:24:48 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <87r1smy1du.5.fsf@jidanni.org> Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2020 02:42:29 +0300 In-Reply-To: <87r1smy1du.5.fsf@jidanni.org> ("=?UTF-8?Q?=E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC?= Dan Jacobson"'s message of "Tue, 04 Aug 2020 21:41:17 +0800") Message-ID: <877duerlw2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > There is a buffer "*Char Help*" that emacs makes sure the user is never > able to copy. (What if Stallman found out about this?) Actually you can copy it after signing an NDA. > There is only one place that those "you are not allowed to copy" police > cannot control: when viewed with emacs -nw. (Oops, I leaked it.) Else > one's only option is a screenshot. This patch should allow copying freely: diff --git a/lisp/dired-aux.el b/lisp/dired-aux.el index efb214088d..7bad4a720c 100644 --- a/lisp/dired-aux.el +++ b/lisp/dired-aux.el @@ -1266,7 +1266,7 @@ dired-query (format " [Type yn!q or %s] " (key-description (vector help-char))) " [Type y, n, q or !] "))) - (set sym (setq char (read-char-choice prompt char-choices))) + (set sym (setq char (read-char-from-minibuffer prompt char-choices))) (if (memq char '(?y ?\s ?!)) t))))) From unknown Tue Jun 17 01:44:13 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#42708: Let users copy "*Char Help*" buffer Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2020 09:25:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 42708 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Juri Linkov Cc: 42708@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, =?UTF-8?Q?=E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC?= Dan Jacobson Received: via spool by 42708-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B42708.159661947819040 (code B ref 42708); Wed, 05 Aug 2020 09:25:01 +0000 Received: (at 42708) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Aug 2020 09:24:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49799 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k3Ff3-0004x2-Py for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Aug 2020 05:24:38 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:38202) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k3Ff2-0004wp-5N for 42708@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Aug 2020 05:24:36 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=xvsq40WurYTSNnM35/VcSKPQpWCxPzDMoOYQI+26lkw=; b=F69ZcPqMklKB3iCJYSeKPIEgll TGiQlou5VlUkl9NeOBcSiecVGwsoSVnPQ+uXVCvkAXnmYQinYfbg835kKln92N3uJ59wfpu2ouccG WmN1JmlVavGYDlw8Hrt0NbeG8denphbrI+2HKaO4XdcilWEdTfFLYi10orxmv19wZPrQ=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1k3Fet-0002zm-IS; Wed, 05 Aug 2020 11:24:30 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <87r1smy1du.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <877duerlw2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2020 11:24:26 +0200 In-Reply-To: <877duerlw2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (Juri Linkov's message of "Wed, 05 Aug 2020 02:42:29 +0300") Message-ID: <87h7the985.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Juri Linkov writes: > This patch should allow copying freely: [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Juri Linkov writes: > This patch should allow copying freely: [...] > - (set sym (setq char (read-char-choice prompt char-choices))) > + (set sym (setq char (read-char-from-minibuffer prompt char-choices))) > (if (memq char '(?y ?\s ?!)) t))))) Makes sense to me... -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From unknown Tue Jun 17 01:44:13 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#42708: Let users copy "*Char Help*" buffer Resent-From: Juri Linkov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2020 00:16:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 42708 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Cc: 42708@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, =?UTF-8?Q?=E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC?= Dan Jacobson Received: via spool by 42708-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B42708.159667292727757 (code B ref 42708); Thu, 06 Aug 2020 00:16:02 +0000 Received: (at 42708) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Aug 2020 00:15:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52446 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k3TZ8-0007Dd-Qe for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Aug 2020 20:15:27 -0400 Received: from relay6-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.198]:57913) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k3TZ6-0007D1-FA for 42708@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Aug 2020 20:15:24 -0400 X-Originating-IP: 91.129.102.47 Received: from mail.gandi.net (m91-129-102-47.cust.tele2.ee [91.129.102.47]) (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by relay6-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0B2EFC0004; Thu, 6 Aug 2020 00:15:16 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <87r1smy1du.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <877duerlw2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87h7the985.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2020 02:52:52 +0300 In-Reply-To: <87h7the985.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Wed, 05 Aug 2020 11:24:26 +0200") Message-ID: <87a6z8pr7f.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> - (set sym (setq char (read-char-choice prompt char-choices))) >> + (set sym (setq char (read-char-from-minibuffer prompt char-choices))) >> (if (memq char '(?y ?\s ?!)) t))))) > > Makes sense to me... Oh, I noticed it doesn't support 'C-h' that should pop up the buffer " *Char Help*" from the dynamic variable 'help-form'. Then maybe we should rewrite read-char-choice to use read-char-from-minibuffer? From unknown Tue Jun 17 01:44:13 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#42708: Let users copy "*Char Help*" buffer Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2020 07:14:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 42708 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Juri Linkov Cc: 42708@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, =?UTF-8?Q?=E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC?= Dan Jacobson Received: via spool by 42708-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B42708.15966979883096 (code B ref 42708); Thu, 06 Aug 2020 07:14:02 +0000 Received: (at 42708) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Aug 2020 07:13:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52949 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k3a5L-0000ns-Mu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Aug 2020 03:13:07 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:50304) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k3a5J-0000nN-MX for 42708@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Aug 2020 03:13:06 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=+2T+SqrsMdWbPnnPbs8bHdMc1wWDtW9q8a20k4B9vIs=; b=p0c/tu5RVX1+r1MzLNOGqvzO05 ibhgBWM118vEhz+K95BqzTXcUbzdG8fqYVBSnINntE+OxuOSQO73H+G5yLpPbT8C6wwictEcgvCeq cYtyAVe/SKgGdtBoc7aHPyVqqfRYEQZGe0JKsqSDhsiYDMpZFP4nSQWsO304iPNHV1g0=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1k3a58-0006ot-9j; Thu, 06 Aug 2020 09:12:59 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <87r1smy1du.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <877duerlw2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87h7the985.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6z8pr7f.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2020 09:12:52 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87a6z8pr7f.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (Juri Linkov's message of "Thu, 06 Aug 2020 02:52:52 +0300") Message-ID: <87bljogscr.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Juri Linkov writes: > Oh, I noticed it doesn't support 'C-h' that should pop up the buffer " > *Char Help*" from the dynamic variable 'help-form'. > > Then maybe we should rewrite read-char-choice to use > read-char-from [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Juri Linkov writes: > Oh, I noticed it doesn't support 'C-h' that should pop up the buffer " > *Char Help*" from the dynamic variable 'help-form'. > > Then maybe we should rewrite read-char-choice to use > read-char-from-minibuffer? Yes, that's even better -- then all the callers to read-char-choice would no longer be as modal as they are now. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From unknown Tue Jun 17 01:44:13 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#42708: Let users copy "*Char Help*" buffer Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2020 03:00:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 42708 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Juri Linkov Cc: 42708@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, =?UTF-8?Q?=E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC?= Dan Jacobson Received: via spool by 42708-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B42708.16025579888830 (code B ref 42708); Tue, 13 Oct 2020 03:00:02 +0000 Received: (at 42708) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Oct 2020 02:59:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44693 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kSAXT-0002IM-KH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 12 Oct 2020 22:59:47 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:41084) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kSAXQ-0002I5-Jq for 42708@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 12 Oct 2020 22:59:46 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=KQQrwrGTjwS4fFUEKn/Q0tDvrKHxyrGXBAEZCFVSkgU=; b=Bm+oysbqMm26n55M+H83L2kg2q 3niLHrVqSZx1DYmxVNvtD/JdtcV9Djnq6FJvUHOkV6hYXrutPw1Gq8H2nCG+b4mGK7JVmArQrtLq7 nmK7nxBmPcY4dcvlJcKlmXRsOtz3Txzpf6oJSp64sr0oi7MjcaW4QQbhIzsh7TXk3oyw=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kSAXC-0001KM-7A; Tue, 13 Oct 2020 04:59:33 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <87r1smy1du.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <877duerlw2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87h7the985.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6z8pr7f.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87bljogscr.fsf@gnus.org> X-Now-Playing: Oval's _Wohnton_: "Buntstift" Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2020 04:59:28 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87bljogscr.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Thu, 06 Aug 2020 09:12:52 +0200") Message-ID: <87r1q27rvz.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > Juri Linkov writes: > >> Oh, I noticed it doesn't support 'C-h' that should pop up the buffer " >> *Char Help*" from the dynamic variable 'help-form'. >> >> Then maybe we should re [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > Juri Linkov writes: > >> Oh, I noticed it doesn't support 'C-h' that should pop up the buffer " >> *Char Help*" from the dynamic variable 'help-form'. >> >> Then maybe we should rewrite read-char-choice to use >> read-char-from-minibuffer? > > Yes, that's even better -- then all the callers to read-char-choice > would no longer be as modal as they are now. I've now done this on the trunk. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Oct 12 22:59:50 2020 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Oct 2020 02:59:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44696 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kSAXV-0002Ia-Tr for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 12 Oct 2020 22:59:50 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:41098) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kSAXT-0002IA-MV for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 12 Oct 2020 22:59:48 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=zpnI2mc3fcbRLrXumiNYbDVhg59FuBK/uwTo9D/71wo=; b=gveYxIm4oVznGjoLgYHOMhoMbI dgzQanOozp1a0GvLWVC/QOR3YUs7bE9pAMqv53gBGDdTHbRAcCwh5XLG7svyflkqm4+ej6LXjP17a cpatVhqd+rN7eRAakJe1T5UO5/b3nke4k0M3iR+rgDpWjQBLLlucPulJeh1hLxPpAryE=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kSAXL-0001KX-Ub for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 13 Oct 2020 04:59:42 +0200 Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2020 04:59:38 +0200 Message-Id: <87pn5m7rvp.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #42708 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 42708 fixed close 42708 28.1 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 42708 fixed close 42708 28.1 quit From unknown Tue Jun 17 01:44:13 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#42708: Let users copy "*Char Help*" buffer Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2020 15:28:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 42708 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: fixed To: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Juri Linkov Cc: 42708@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, =?UTF-8?Q?=E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC?= Dan Jacobson Received: via spool by 42708-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B42708.16026028713552 (code B ref 42708); Tue, 13 Oct 2020 15:28:02 +0000 Received: (at 42708) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Oct 2020 15:27:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48277 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kSMDP-0000vE-DC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 13 Oct 2020 11:27:51 -0400 Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:34556) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kSMDN-0000v0-9O for 42708@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 13 Oct 2020 11:27:50 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 09DFMNnj078539; Tue, 13 Oct 2020 15:27:43 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=4AJvJnVVTFz8IPsLTWGinWiB875VII0KNBtbNZ12g6o=; b=tuyqMWkBGA3OW3C4JjqrlIqytyPn2klBRgSvICP8Pa7b1e8iD9DIrg5/+W4F3JL52dth shZR4jRHhSIktqWdZc4qV0AN2XyXX9212tNlFle0I5tdWyZ38pHbUBp1Q/UsO5qK9ttF xIyi+HYpLRwft5oV/TV+sJxbpoiX/LqKfWSD4JgzxrVbKlajVJy+FIKcUKYJ09ZbYuVm lVz7xnl9OeyjvuNbLxDs+I/VgskfR2xquA1attuorRMh9obIiSGhD0whb7w3FPxAirJZ 8knWz7cMrD1J81Xpzfq15G6Umu7b71R7fxM3j7EoYphz8+4br7bkRz4PipVIG6S1fzdi 7A== Received: from userp3030.oracle.com (userp3030.oracle.com [156.151.31.80]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 343vae9505-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 13 Oct 2020 15:27:43 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 09DFAX33113102; Tue, 13 Oct 2020 15:27:43 GMT Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by userp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 343pvwhdut-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Oct 2020 15:27:42 +0000 Received: from abhmp0020.oracle.com (abhmp0020.oracle.com [141.146.116.26]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 09DFRbOY027616; Tue, 13 Oct 2020 15:27:37 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <22b854e0-4fdd-4eac-86ec-6205b2e42a39@default> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2020 08:27:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams References: <87r1smy1du.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <877duerlw2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87h7the985.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6z8pr7f.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87bljogscr.fsf@gnus.org> <87r1q27rvz.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: <87r1q27rvz.fsf@gnus.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5056.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9772 signatures=668681 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2010130112 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9772 signatures=668681 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxlogscore=999 clxscore=1011 impostorscore=0 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 bulkscore=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2010130112 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > Juri Linkov writes: > > > >> Oh, I noticed it doesn't support 'C-h' that should pop up the buffer " > >> *Char Help*" from the dynamic variable 'help-form'. > >> > >> Then maybe we should rewrite read-char-choice to use > >> read-char-from-minibuffer? > > > > Yes, that's even better -- then all the callers to read-char-choice > > would no longer be as modal as they are now. >=20 > I've now done this on the trunk. This is another step backward. If you want to use a read-a-character-using-minibuffer function here or there you should just it directly. `read-char-choice' should not have been co-opted to use the minibuffer. Big mistake in UI. There are good use cases for the classic `read-char' and `read-char-choice', which read an event WITHOUT involving the minibuffer. Using the minibuffer for everything is just wrong, very wrong. (And I'm saying this as someone who makes extensive use of the minibuffer.) Use a read-using-minibuffer function when it makes sense to do that. Not every (or even most - maybe not any?) uses of `read-char-choice' should involve the minibuffer. Those that should could of course be changed to use the minibuffer. Certainly not all. This has really become a have-hammer-see-only-nails phenomenon, IMHO. From unknown Tue Jun 17 01:44:13 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#42708: Let users copy "*Char Help*" buffer Resent-From: Juri Linkov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2020 19:11:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 42708 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: fixed To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Cc: 42708@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, =?UTF-8?Q?=E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC?= Dan Jacobson Received: via spool by 42708-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B42708.16044306073282 (code B ref 42708); Tue, 03 Nov 2020 19:11:01 +0000 Received: (at 42708) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Nov 2020 19:10:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46435 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ka1h1-0000qr-Eo for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 03 Nov 2020 14:10:07 -0500 Received: from relay12.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.178.232]:38559) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ka1h0-0000pv-1q for 42708@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 03 Nov 2020 14:10:06 -0500 Received: from mail.gandi.net (m91-129-102-160.cust.tele2.ee [91.129.102.160]) (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by relay12.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7D7D8200003; Tue, 3 Nov 2020 19:09:57 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov References: <87r1smy1du.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <877duerlw2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87h7the985.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6z8pr7f.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87bljogscr.fsf@gnus.org> <87r1q27rvz.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2020 20:57:37 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87r1q27rvz.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Tue, 13 Oct 2020 04:59:28 +0200") Message-ID: <87pn4u1fxq.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >>> Oh, I noticed it doesn't support 'C-h' that should pop up the buffer " >>> *Char Help*" from the dynamic variable 'help-form'. >>> >>> Then maybe we should rewrite read-char-choice to use >>> read-char-from-minibuffer? >> >> Yes, that's even better -- then all the callers to read-char-choice >> would no longer be as modal as they are now. > > I've now done this on the trunk. I tried to reproduce the original test case. i.e. to type 'C' (dired-do-copy) and select the "*Char Help*" buffer with C-x o. The result is weird: the cursor in displayed in the minibuffer, but the selected window is "*Char Help*". Here's a patch to fix this: diff --git a/lisp/subr.el b/lisp/subr.el index 286851dfc8..606ce004d5 100644 --- a/lisp/subr.el +++ b/lisp/subr.el @@ -2610,8 +2610,7 @@ read-char-choice (unless (consp chars) (error "Called `read-char-choice' without valid char choices")) (let (char done show-help (helpbuf " *Char Help*")) - (let ((cursor-in-echo-area t) - (executing-kbd-macro executing-kbd-macro) + (let ((executing-kbd-macro executing-kbd-macro) (esc-flag nil)) (save-window-excursion ; in case we call help-form-show (while (not done) After looking more at 'read-char-choice', it seems that special handling of 'inhibit-keyboard-quit' and 'executing-kbd-macro' is not needed anymore? And maybe also adding the 'minibuffer-prompt' face is not needed too. Then what remains to do in 'read-char-choice' is to call 'read-char-from-minibuffer' and to show 'help-form-show' for 'help-char' key? From unknown Tue Jun 17 01:44:13 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#42708: Let users copy "*Char Help*" buffer Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2020 13:40:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 42708 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: fixed To: Juri Linkov Cc: 42708@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, =?UTF-8?Q?=E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC?= Dan Jacobson Received: via spool by 42708-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B42708.160492918317419 (code B ref 42708); Mon, 09 Nov 2020 13:40:02 +0000 Received: (at 42708) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Nov 2020 13:39:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34278 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kc7OZ-0004Wt-6p for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Nov 2020 08:39:43 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:41868) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kc7OX-0004Wf-BJ for 42708@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Nov 2020 08:39:41 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=0nuW7a1vz+b+fJv3RTxBNaK3bslbqX2s/B6/pCWOG+s=; b=ZM+ZJdQh8yRFMwwh515FCAGRic BfoOj/PUu+xNvYJM4I72v2mkPUqTbB4wZqXbEees1uqc3c/b4IVg5kcfBT7lde+D7yanddduUlokB hy7z36eO0/99axI0omAxzHE2g8L6kEy8yALCmVUJHiL9mG5D3opQwaaAmBIpWdtKoUr4=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kc7OH-0006Jr-Fz; Mon, 09 Nov 2020 14:39:31 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <87r1smy1du.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <877duerlw2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87h7the985.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6z8pr7f.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87bljogscr.fsf@gnus.org> <87r1q27rvz.fsf@gnus.org> <87pn4u1fxq.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAGFBMVEWNcEWKazxBPTcZ GRhqVjalop5iW1D////0J7WRAAAAAWJLR0QHFmGI6wAAAAd0SU1FB+QLCQ0fOKZZqPwAAAF1SURB VDjLjdNLbsIwEAbgCSpdZ1BOMKZdV3EPUFo3ayph1mDA9z9C52EnQINUL6I4n//xIwkANOh8aW/I zXogjR6CuwYbBqjwHqQtDHQYNAK0VlgeAbApoGMq/Ghhegju33ApQH8BZXKNQMuQJtCeAt+1IV0D DlKLa2Lb5Tp5BSfQtCGfCzT8vBuSAWcMuuUWClCFI3aS2Foic60RUMESOU3QYLeRUtwR8LXUgd8j Fgg3oMUFUCC7aXIF3YfASaDFzXDuMFxD8vIcN1/nq50LZMcHwltw9UhkN+GZ4SSfVee9fQzLnVxj ZEgyNd7DnkUOcR5kulmQW1dhr6/LQNbzWSHKsj8Meo1U0IiB10hP0i5RI98GGvEKFC2SFSySFF4s ImfCv4BGssJrjLsKsNDIkOospRa0K1vSfQRgRT7MRARmIwBPNBthCHMRhZw1crv9AtZqJMofRTTB GBHoaT3CGBHgYYcRakTB0+sINWLQ0x3Qhe9+AZmV4HV5ZwfbAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAy MDIwLTExLTA5VDEzOjMxOjU1KzAwOjAwL19ydgAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMC0xMS0w OVQxMzozMTo1NSswMDowMF4CysoAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Chrome Hoof's _Chrome Black Gold_: "When the Lightning Strikes" Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2020 14:39:24 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87pn4u1fxq.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (Juri Linkov's message of "Tue, 03 Nov 2020 20:57:37 +0200") Message-ID: <87tutymyyb.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Juri Linkov writes: > I tried to reproduce the original test case. i.e. to type 'C' > (dired-do-copy) and select the "*Char Help*" buffer with C-x o. > The result is weird: the cursor in displayed in the minibuffer, > bu [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Juri Linkov writes: > I tried to reproduce the original test case. i.e. to type 'C' > (dired-do-copy) and select the "*Char Help*" buffer with C-x o. > The result is weird: the cursor in displayed in the minibuffer, > but the selected window is "*Char Help*". Here's a patch to fix this: [...] > - (let ((cursor-in-echo-area t) > - (executing-kbd-macro executing-kbd-macro) > + (let ((executing-kbd-macro executing-kbd-macro) I haven't tried the patch -- does this have any other effect than fixing the problem with the cursor in the wrong buffer? I'm not quite clear on what the effects of cursor-in-echo-area are... > After looking more at 'read-char-choice', it seems that special handling > of 'inhibit-keyboard-quit' and 'executing-kbd-macro' is not needed > anymore? And maybe also adding the 'minibuffer-prompt' face is not > needed too. Then what remains to do in 'read-char-choice' is to call > 'read-char-from-minibuffer' and to show 'help-form-show' for 'help-char' key? Sounds reasonable (without having looked at the code more than cursorily). -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From unknown Tue Jun 17 01:44:13 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#42708: Let users copy "*Char Help*" buffer Resent-From: Juri Linkov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 20:13:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 42708 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: fixed To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Cc: 42708@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, =?UTF-8?Q?=E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC?= Dan Jacobson Received: via spool by 42708-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B42708.16050391709872 (code B ref 42708); Tue, 10 Nov 2020 20:13:02 +0000 Received: (at 42708) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Nov 2020 20:12:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38993 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kca0Y-0002Z9-HY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Nov 2020 15:12:50 -0500 Received: from relay9-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.199]:34853) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kca0X-0002Yv-09 for 42708@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Nov 2020 15:12:49 -0500 X-Originating-IP: 91.129.97.46 Received: from mail.gandi.net (m91-129-97-46.cust.tele2.ee [91.129.97.46]) (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by relay9-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6DD93FF806; Tue, 10 Nov 2020 20:12:40 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <87r1smy1du.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <877duerlw2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87h7the985.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6z8pr7f.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87bljogscr.fsf@gnus.org> <87r1q27rvz.fsf@gnus.org> <87pn4u1fxq.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87tutymyyb.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 21:51:07 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87tutymyyb.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Mon, 09 Nov 2020 14:39:24 +0100") Message-ID: <878sb9j7l0.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> I tried to reproduce the original test case. i.e. to type 'C' >> (dired-do-copy) and select the "*Char Help*" buffer with C-x o. >> The result is weird: the cursor in displayed in the minibuffer, >> but the selected window is "*Char Help*". Here's a patch to fix this: > > [...] > >> - (let ((cursor-in-echo-area t) >> - (executing-kbd-macro executing-kbd-macro) >> + (let ((executing-kbd-macro executing-kbd-macro) > > I haven't tried the patch -- does this have any other effect than fixing > the problem with the cursor in the wrong buffer? I'm not quite clear on > what the effects of cursor-in-echo-area are... No other effect, cursor-in-echo-area was necessary when 'read-char-choice' relied on 'read-key'. >> After looking more at 'read-char-choice', it seems that special handling >> of 'inhibit-keyboard-quit' and 'executing-kbd-macro' is not needed >> anymore? And maybe also adding the 'minibuffer-prompt' face is not >> needed too. Then what remains to do in 'read-char-choice' is to call >> 'read-char-from-minibuffer' and to show 'help-form-show' for 'help-char' key? > > Sounds reasonable (without having looked at the code more than > cursorily). Then what remains in 'read-char-choice' after this clean-up, is just a call to 'read-char-from-minibuffer' and handling 'help-char' by calling 'help-form-show'. OTOH, 'help-form-show' can be simply bound to 'help-char' in 'read-char-from-minibuffer-map'. So I'm lost what would be better to do. I see 2 variants: 1. Declare 'read-char-choice' as an equivalent of 'read-char-from-minibuffer', but with additional handling of 'help-char'; 2. Add handling of 'help-char' to 'read-char-from-minibuffer', and leave 'read-char-choice' unchanged, then replace all calls of 'read-char-choice' with 'read-char-from-minibuffer' calls in the Emacs source tree. From unknown Tue Jun 17 01:44:13 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#42708: Let users copy "*Char Help*" buffer Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 20:27:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 42708 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: fixed To: Juri Linkov , Lars Ingebrigtsen Cc: 42708@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, =?UTF-8?Q?=E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC?= Dan Jacobson Received: via spool by 42708-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B42708.160504001011334 (code B ref 42708); Tue, 10 Nov 2020 20:27:02 +0000 Received: (at 42708) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Nov 2020 20:26:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39032 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kcaE5-0002wk-MO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Nov 2020 15:26:50 -0500 Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:55942) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kcaE3-0002wU-HQ for 42708@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Nov 2020 15:26:48 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 0AAKJRIM103142; Tue, 10 Nov 2020 20:26:41 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=EcAE8bMppGfhFYcBvvD/A7v9T94PiSYjv8enW46Tg1Y=; b=RvfZvzXleQH6v7p5JdAUT06B/0MmH2o29Q5qr0MHbpuLrQy27tBIjfrPBh29AxFJQmcK 9p6kD8tcs56G2oSTuTcYENgzN9Sx5FVVe7KJnqql232RLYluoa+ZmeSaRclgGikE+K9a c/8/klW1lXFPoKJex1SSgMgqS6EgtxOld8firvw2slnXc4bVTEcWMfRd1vVunJmYfCv2 CHnNHQC8nUPuWVV/0FRFJisz2tPFAJ6+0G3B3I6IOf8ao5KYwkB2+v/VVbdZLinDI+Gq 8WhHmfFeHPrkGqTquQytxFStDTDUVjAiH2bh4Fh8D7a1h2FVrXPp4NCtp84x/XvLus6V HA== Received: from userp3020.oracle.com (userp3020.oracle.com [156.151.31.79]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 34p72ekwjb-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 Nov 2020 20:26:41 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 0AAKL5Kr011580; Tue, 10 Nov 2020 20:26:41 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by userp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 34qgp7c5aa-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 10 Nov 2020 20:26:41 +0000 Received: from abhmp0005.oracle.com (abhmp0005.oracle.com [141.146.116.11]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 0AAKQabt022068; Tue, 10 Nov 2020 20:26:36 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <20098a09-7605-4b1e-8ff4-a49316f367cb@default> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 12:26:35 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <87r1smy1du.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <877duerlw2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87h7the985.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6z8pr7f.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87bljogscr.fsf@gnus.org> <87r1q27rvz.fsf@gnus.org> <87pn4u1fxq.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87tutymyyb.fsf@gnus.org> <878sb9j7l0.fsf@mail.linkov.net> In-Reply-To: <878sb9j7l0.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5071.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9801 signatures=668682 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2011100138 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9801 signatures=668682 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 priorityscore=1501 spamscore=0 impostorscore=0 clxscore=1015 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2011100138 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > No other effect, cursor-in-echo-area was necessary when > 'read-char-choice' relied on 'read-key'. Seriously? You've not only introduced a new function, `read-char-from-minibuffer', AND used it here and there (everywhere?) in place of `read-char` and `read-key`, but you've ALSO changed the behavior of `read-char-choice`, so it too no longer reads a char in the longstanding, useful way, which we can count to NOT use the minibuffer? FTR, here's one user who strongly objects. You knew that, generally. Now you know it for `read-char-choice' in particular. Hey, why didn't you just redefine `read-char' while you were at it? > Then what remains in 'read-char-choice' after this clean-up, > is just a call to 'read-char-from-minibuffer' and handling 'help-char' > by calling 'help-form-show'. OTOH, 'help-form-show' can be simply > bound > to 'help-char' in 'read-char-from-minibuffer-map'. So I'm lost what > would be better to do. I see 2 variants: >=20 > 1. Declare 'read-char-choice' as an equivalent of 'read-char-from- > minibuffer', but with additional handling of 'help-char'; >=20 > 2. Add handling of 'help-char' to 'read-char-from-minibuffer', > and leave 'read-char-choice' unchanged, then replace all calls > of 'read-char-choice' with 'read-char-from-minibuffer' calls > in the Emacs source tree. Alas. From unknown Tue Jun 17 01:44:13 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#42708: Let users copy "*Char Help*" buffer Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 05:41:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 42708 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: fixed To: Drew Adams Cc: larsi@gnus.org, jidanni@jidanni.org, 42708@debbugs.gnu.org, juri@linkov.net Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 42708-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B42708.160507322724008 (code B ref 42708); Wed, 11 Nov 2020 05:41:01 +0000 Received: (at 42708) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Nov 2020 05:40:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39992 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kcirr-0006F9-FB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 00:40:27 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:54472) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kcirq-0006Ew-5s for 42708@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 00:40:26 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:50606) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kcirj-0005jP-EH; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 00:40:19 -0500 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kcirg-0006Ea-IO; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 00:40:16 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: <20098a09-7605-4b1e-8ff4-a49316f367cb@default> (message from Drew Adams on Tue, 10 Nov 2020 12:26:35 -0800 (PST)) References: <87r1smy1du.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <877duerlw2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87h7the985.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6z8pr7f.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87bljogscr.fsf@gnus.org> <87r1q27rvz.fsf@gnus.org> <87pn4u1fxq.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87tutymyyb.fsf@gnus.org> <878sb9j7l0.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <20098a09-7605-4b1e-8ff4-a49316f367cb@default> Message-Id: Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 00:40:16 -0500 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > FTR, here's one user who strongly objects. You knew that, > generally. Now you know it for `read-char-choice' in > particular. Hey, why didn't you just redefine `read-char' > while you were at it? I might agree with the substance of your point, but the tone is very harsh. THe last sentence is sarcastic. Please don't talk to people that way here. People who are treated harshly tend to respond with more hashness, and that makes participation painful. Please express your views without making anyone feel attacked. -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Tue Jun 17 01:44:13 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#42708: Let users copy "*Char Help*" buffer Resent-From: Juri Linkov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 08:11:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 42708 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: fixed To: Drew Adams Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , =?UTF-8?Q?=E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC?= Dan Jacobson , 42708@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 42708-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B42708.16050822256676 (code B ref 42708); Wed, 11 Nov 2020 08:11:01 +0000 Received: (at 42708) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Nov 2020 08:10:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40142 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kclCy-0001jb-SF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 03:10:25 -0500 Received: from relay4-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.196]:43619) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kclCx-0001jJ-7b for 42708@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 03:10:23 -0500 X-Originating-IP: 91.129.97.46 Received: from mail.gandi.net (m91-129-97-46.cust.tele2.ee [91.129.97.46]) (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by relay4-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A2291E0008; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 08:10:14 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <87r1smy1du.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <877duerlw2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87h7the985.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6z8pr7f.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87bljogscr.fsf@gnus.org> <87r1q27rvz.fsf@gnus.org> <87pn4u1fxq.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87tutymyyb.fsf@gnus.org> <878sb9j7l0.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <20098a09-7605-4b1e-8ff4-a49316f367cb@default> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 10:09:04 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20098a09-7605-4b1e-8ff4-a49316f367cb@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Tue, 10 Nov 2020 12:26:35 -0800 (PST)") Message-ID: <87a6voz57f.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> No other effect, cursor-in-echo-area was necessary when >> 'read-char-choice' relied on 'read-key'. > > Seriously? You've not only introduced a new function, > `read-char-from-minibuffer', AND used it here and there > (everywhere?) in place of `read-char` and `read-key`, > but you've ALSO changed the behavior of `read-char-choice`, > so it too no longer reads a char in the longstanding, > useful way, which we can count to NOT use the minibuffer? This is a false accusation. I have NOT changed the behavior of `read-char-choice`, From unknown Tue Jun 17 01:44:13 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#42708: Let users copy "*Char Help*" buffer Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 10:29:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 42708 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: fixed To: Juri Linkov Cc: 42708@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, =?UTF-8?Q?=E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC?= Dan Jacobson Received: via spool by 42708-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B42708.160509050820441 (code B ref 42708); Wed, 11 Nov 2020 10:29:02 +0000 Received: (at 42708) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Nov 2020 10:28:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40334 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kcnMZ-0005Jc-VY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 05:28:28 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:35918) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kcnMX-0005JK-PG for 42708@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 05:28:26 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=kTbtUEf3i61mWvFTvLBOdkdk5iqrsE0n6bXiUT30vxg=; b=Df8183NeZ0oNPcKsT3T2ZJa+3C YYkzOmQQTSTfn4oJKEofC3ACBXqMd/4z38RAmzTE9z4VOe4N5fQETFrL921SP5PzqHJ3KRUBPpnu/ XZDGN6HDa9r0EAkmIwXgP/LRzBlLZCGr0eQbb2YEcj2nVH+hm3oM0gjd4LYukrzzT5Oo=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kcnMH-0000Tb-Sj; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 11:28:15 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <87r1smy1du.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <877duerlw2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87h7the985.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6z8pr7f.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87bljogscr.fsf@gnus.org> <87r1q27rvz.fsf@gnus.org> <87pn4u1fxq.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87tutymyyb.fsf@gnus.org> <878sb9j7l0.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAGFBMVEX+98P98rrk0qTB royThnBhWFA9Nzb///+OKkWvAAAAAWJLR0QHFmGI6wAAAAd0SU1FB+QLCwoaOHRogrcAAAFnSURB VDjLrZPhcYQgEIVBrwAwDcS9KyABbeAEG9ClAqH/ErKAGjTnj5vJGx1m+HjwWIAxkiSxV+LsQhfj 3xeXWbEVkgkhOBP7Ihe5LmOxBkgSgNrPA/jQWt1BK3iqrwOoWmhBtiAAxGmyCgiduzklpLhlzqyz ezdUSg1wh03bOM7rQQ9KU5eiX+t9Al4rMMmh9WN6FIASGeh6NBbR4/ILGq1Nh2NwdiLgC0fX2dG7 gP2A3pQOAi64EPrJBbM7uGy6PgNLwJag38BwciRAsnMIcxBrOTivejsm4ObgsAB1Nng3LsEXQNbW RIBoPbl8AdDQDH62XTJugPEbzoi46F4TwALUSEVyi4rA24ODShRiDWdXAC5vAdPaDn3I1RU57i3u IYEYQe1AZkD7iAttR7sCt7JvuouCF2DVMx58vPLrBj1mTQ3czbwCsb2PQkwK+l4AkdjbQF4CivXn OiewJTn0F+Co5v8A+wG7BX0o0W8aNAAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpjcmVhdGUAMjAyMC0xMS0xMVQxMDoy Njo1NiswMDowMHSalJAAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5ADIwMjAtMTEtMTFUMTA6MjY6NTYrMDA6 MDAFxywsAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Paula Frazer and Tarnation's _What Is And Was_: "What Is And Was" Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 11:28:08 +0100 In-Reply-To: <878sb9j7l0.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (Juri Linkov's message of "Tue, 10 Nov 2020 21:51:07 +0200") Message-ID: <87eel0chmv.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Juri Linkov writes: > 1. Declare 'read-char-choice' as an equivalent of 'read-char-from-minibuffer', > but with additional handling of 'help-char'; > > 2. Add handling of 'help-char' to 'read-char-from-minibuffer', > and [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Juri Linkov writes: > 1. Declare 'read-char-choice' as an equivalent of 'read-char-from-minibuffer', > but with additional handling of 'help-char'; > > 2. Add handling of 'help-char' to 'read-char-from-minibuffer', > and leave 'read-char-choice' unchanged, then replace all calls > of 'read-char-choice' with 'read-char-from-minibuffer' calls > in the Emacs source tree. I'd go for 2, I think. These functions are so similar in what they offer that it doesn't make much sense in having both. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From unknown Tue Jun 17 01:44:13 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#42708: Let users copy "*Char Help*" buffer Resent-From: Juri Linkov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 19:25:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 42708 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: fixed To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Cc: 42708@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, =?UTF-8?Q?=E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC?= Dan Jacobson Received: via spool by 42708-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B42708.160512264426180 (code B ref 42708); Wed, 11 Nov 2020 19:25:02 +0000 Received: (at 42708) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Nov 2020 19:24:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42869 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kcviu-0006o9-Kk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 14:24:04 -0500 Received: from relay4-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.196]:46739) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kcvis-0006nK-1B for 42708@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 14:24:02 -0500 X-Originating-IP: 91.129.97.46 Received: from mail.gandi.net (m91-129-97-46.cust.tele2.ee [91.129.97.46]) (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by relay4-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D7379E0006; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 19:23:53 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <87r1smy1du.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <877duerlw2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87h7the985.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6z8pr7f.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87bljogscr.fsf@gnus.org> <87r1q27rvz.fsf@gnus.org> <87pn4u1fxq.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87tutymyyb.fsf@gnus.org> <878sb9j7l0.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87eel0chmv.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 21:19:01 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87eel0chmv.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Wed, 11 Nov 2020 11:28:08 +0100") Message-ID: <87blg3u2fu.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> 2. Add handling of 'help-char' to 'read-char-from-minibuffer', >> and leave 'read-char-choice' unchanged, then replace all calls >> of 'read-char-choice' with 'read-char-from-minibuffer' calls >> in the Emacs source tree. > > I'd go for 2, I think. These functions are so similar in what they > offer that it doesn't make much sense in having both. So I pushed 2 to master. Please check if everything is alright. Hope this will make Drew happy. From unknown Tue Jun 17 01:44:13 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#42708: Let users copy "*Char Help*" buffer Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 19:43:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 42708 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: fixed To: Juri Linkov Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , =?UTF-8?Q?=E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC?= Dan Jacobson , 42708@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 42708-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B42708.160512376328419 (code B ref 42708); Wed, 11 Nov 2020 19:43:02 +0000 Received: (at 42708) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Nov 2020 19:42:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42912 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kcw0w-0007OI-Of for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 14:42:43 -0500 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:51480) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kcw0t-0007O3-Ho for 42708@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 14:42:41 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 0ABJeTlK122342; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 19:42:33 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=MAXTnVclFNXWvUkfapLu4Kz2LuA+8I3YT3lF7hzdvYA=; b=jYaYfDZB7xuUr4RxosQSK+kiioiHZ2ugsUkwzj5uK3aC+JGhLPdgimGOgnO28kBu3DR2 POvP5SHhtqxt513hTdYm7Pz6e4iKY6dFRW5Pbd5p+AFZfP8ngomXDowARrIvLv8MDagw Cfls7yibttRu/S7o27bHwbMMYHCeIiGaoeQRnqZpW72Goty+DxQyuRMnpp+X+TYsumma OMxMcaQj79NH3OGBzs9AKvEK+Ux30f8B4VDKjEBOX7loSOCn4TVIUY+gCStvZTDnmk/a Hf2EMyK7rpk7p6D8sH3vEGkjEBohBxbuVSlSKQPfmiWGV8z+mvJLO3QUD3ut4QNZ3iNJ 9w== Received: from userp3030.oracle.com (userp3030.oracle.com [156.151.31.80]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 34nkhm2a99-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 Nov 2020 19:42:33 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 0ABJgQnF101982; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 19:42:32 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by userp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 34rnyk8pu9-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 11 Nov 2020 19:42:32 +0000 Received: from abhmp0018.oracle.com (abhmp0018.oracle.com [141.146.116.24]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 0ABJf5kq005268; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 19:41:05 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <550f3cdd-8b71-457f-a903-84f43b04938d@default> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 11:41:04 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <87r1smy1du.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <877duerlw2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87h7the985.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6z8pr7f.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87bljogscr.fsf@gnus.org> <87r1q27rvz.fsf@gnus.org> <87pn4u1fxq.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87tutymyyb.fsf@gnus.org> <878sb9j7l0.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <20098a09-7605-4b1e-8ff4-a49316f367cb@default> <87a6voz57f.fsf@mail.linkov.net> In-Reply-To: <87a6voz57f.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5071.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9802 signatures=668682 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2011110114 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9802 signatures=668682 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 phishscore=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 lowpriorityscore=0 spamscore=0 malwarescore=0 adultscore=0 clxscore=1015 bulkscore=0 impostorscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2011110114 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > >> No other effect, cursor-in-echo-area was necessary when > >> 'read-char-choice' relied on 'read-key'. > > > > Seriously? You've not only introduced a new function, > > `read-char-from-minibuffer', AND used it here and there > > (everywhere?) in place of `read-char` and `read-key`, > > but you've ALSO changed the behavior of `read-char-choice`, > > so it too no longer reads a char in the longstanding, > > useful way, which we can count to NOT use the minibuffer? >=20 > This is a false accusation. I have NOT changed the behavior of > `read-char-choice`, It was actually a question, not an accusation, but yes, the word order wasn't interrogative, unfortunately. Instead of "You're going to the store?", I should have asked it as "Are you going to the store?" Apologies, if you did not, in fact, change `read-char-choice'. That answers the question in a way that reassures me. My question was in response to your message where (I thought) you described some changes ("clean-up") to `read-char-choice', including (I thought) that it no longer uses `read-key', and you then said: "what remains in 'read-char-choice' after this clean-up, is just a call to 'read-char-from-minibuffer'..." If `read-char-choice' will not, in fact, be changed to use `read-char-from-minibuffer' then that will be good, IMO. I hope such a change does not occur; let me put it that way. Again, apologies if I misunderstood, and for any heard false accusations. As you know, I'm not happy about uses of `read-char' etc. having been replaced by `read-char-from-minibuffer'. I also wouldn't be happy about wholesale replacement of uses of `read-char-choice' by `read-char-from-minibuffer'. Maybe it makes sense to replace some such occurrences, but it would be good to see some justification case by case. But if `read-char-choice' can itself remain in the `read-char', `read-event', `read-key', etc. camp, then at least that will be good, IMO. Thx. From unknown Tue Jun 17 01:44:13 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#42708: Let users copy "*Char Help*" buffer Resent-From: Juri Linkov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 20:09:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 42708 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: fixed To: Drew Adams Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , =?UTF-8?Q?=E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC?= Dan Jacobson , 42708@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 42708-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B42708.160512528930864 (code B ref 42708); Wed, 11 Nov 2020 20:09:01 +0000 Received: (at 42708) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Nov 2020 20:08:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42950 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kcwPY-00081j-Nb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 15:08:08 -0500 Received: from relay5-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.197]:38325) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kcwPX-00080o-2M for 42708@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 15:08:08 -0500 X-Originating-IP: 91.129.97.46 Received: from mail.gandi.net (m91-129-97-46.cust.tele2.ee [91.129.97.46]) (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by relay5-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8911B1C0008; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 20:07:58 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <87r1smy1du.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <877duerlw2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87h7the985.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6z8pr7f.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87bljogscr.fsf@gnus.org> <87r1q27rvz.fsf@gnus.org> <87pn4u1fxq.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87tutymyyb.fsf@gnus.org> <878sb9j7l0.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <20098a09-7605-4b1e-8ff4-a49316f367cb@default> <87a6voz57f.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <550f3cdd-8b71-457f-a903-84f43b04938d@default> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 22:07:27 +0200 In-Reply-To: <550f3cdd-8b71-457f-a903-84f43b04938d@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Wed, 11 Nov 2020 11:41:04 -0800 (PST)") Message-ID: <87y2j7slmo.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > I also wouldn't be happy about wholesale replacement of uses > of `read-char-choice' by `read-char-from-minibuffer'. > Maybe it makes sense to replace some such occurrences, but > it would be good to see some justification case by case. Actually, only one occurrence of `read-char-choice' was replaced by `read-char-from-minibuffer'. > But if `read-char-choice' can itself remain in the > `read-char', `read-event', `read-key', etc. camp, then at > least that will be good, IMO. Thx. Yes, `read-char-choice' remains in that camp unchanged. From unknown Tue Jun 17 01:44:13 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#42708: Let users copy "*Char Help*" buffer Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 21:27:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 42708 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: fixed To: Juri Linkov Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , =?UTF-8?Q?=E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC?= Dan Jacobson , 42708@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 42708-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B42708.160513000513782 (code B ref 42708); Wed, 11 Nov 2020 21:27:01 +0000 Received: (at 42708) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Nov 2020 21:26:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43057 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kcxdc-0003aD-SF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 16:26:45 -0500 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:41860) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kcxdX-0003Zx-B9 for 42708@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 16:26:43 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 0ABLNu5u124023; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 21:26:32 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=6DermBR8R+FJXZHm1V7ssXOhjz9g8InepA4W7c1E374=; b=NlfRozkYvjjhK8naGZ2611zRnpeKEoFL15XIqHMvjH4tApIQbBzYOSwdAtUBYEAoJlE+ GU1sgz1z7QEPL0k5gANcM0uILoe1RBKNv02HoIxL2iAS9OVnt9jU03b3jFSgic+PDyV+ oLVKiCzbM01MFhy/tkRIoYFW8CxMSbmQW1PpoDOkqSV9vtdakUYmM1Dka3+7QwsTiuOZ 2eJWBfC/IN8aD7IUu2xZ3LAMwefjTo8XJyubjPXGQLxVuIe/aUOwGwoxRtiVaAlCODVe fMlnYVZMdHElbsQchBXdjgZGvzFcDzkuzlaRkYjY5HoamuxaY1YA1iSdYladdOcN+X3X YA== Received: from aserp3020.oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [141.146.126.70]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 34nkhm2k2b-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 Nov 2020 21:26:32 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 0ABLAupD045450; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 21:24:32 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 34p5g25kd1-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 11 Nov 2020 21:24:31 +0000 Received: from abhmp0019.oracle.com (abhmp0019.oracle.com [141.146.116.25]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 0ABLOTGm010974; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 21:24:30 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 13:24:28 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <87r1smy1du.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <877duerlw2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87h7the985.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6z8pr7f.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87bljogscr.fsf@gnus.org> <87r1q27rvz.fsf@gnus.org> <87pn4u1fxq.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87tutymyyb.fsf@gnus.org> <878sb9j7l0.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <20098a09-7605-4b1e-8ff4-a49316f367cb@default> <87a6voz57f.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <550f3cdd-8b71-457f-a903-84f43b04938d@default> <87y2j7slmo.fsf@mail.linkov.net> In-Reply-To: <87y2j7slmo.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5071.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9802 signatures=668682 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 malwarescore=0 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2011110123 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9802 signatures=668682 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 phishscore=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 lowpriorityscore=0 spamscore=0 malwarescore=0 adultscore=0 clxscore=1015 bulkscore=0 impostorscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2011110124 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > I also wouldn't be happy about wholesale replacement of uses > > of `read-char-choice' by `read-char-from-minibuffer'. > > Maybe it makes sense to replace some such occurrences, but > > it would be good to see some justification case by case. > > Actually, only one occurrence of `read-char-choice' > was replaced by `read-char-from-minibuffer'. Good. Could we please know which occurrence you changed, and what the justification is? > > But if `read-char-choice' can itself remain in the > > `read-char', `read-event', `read-key', etc. camp, then at > > least that will be good, IMO. Thx. >=20 > Yes, `read-char-choice' remains in that camp unchanged. Good. Thanks for that. From unknown Tue Jun 17 01:44:13 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#42708: Let users copy "*Char Help*" buffer Resent-From: Juri Linkov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 07:35:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 42708 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: fixed To: Drew Adams Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , =?UTF-8?Q?=E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC?= Dan Jacobson , 42708@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 42708-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B42708.160516649610001 (code B ref 42708); Thu, 12 Nov 2020 07:35:02 +0000 Received: (at 42708) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Nov 2020 07:34:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43475 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kd78C-0002bF-F4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 12 Nov 2020 02:34:56 -0500 Received: from relay12.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.178.232]:54143) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kd788-0002ad-0u for 42708@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 12 Nov 2020 02:34:55 -0500 Received: from mail.gandi.net (m91-129-97-46.cust.tele2.ee [91.129.97.46]) (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by relay12.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 34CDF200006; Thu, 12 Nov 2020 07:34:42 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <87r1smy1du.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <877duerlw2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87h7the985.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6z8pr7f.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87bljogscr.fsf@gnus.org> <87r1q27rvz.fsf@gnus.org> <87pn4u1fxq.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87tutymyyb.fsf@gnus.org> <878sb9j7l0.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <20098a09-7605-4b1e-8ff4-a49316f367cb@default> <87a6voz57f.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <550f3cdd-8b71-457f-a903-84f43b04938d@default> <87y2j7slmo.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 09:32:12 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Wed, 11 Nov 2020 13:24:28 -0800 (PST)") Message-ID: <87y2j7t4hv.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> > I also wouldn't be happy about wholesale replacement of uses >> > of `read-char-choice' by `read-char-from-minibuffer'. >> > Maybe it makes sense to replace some such occurrences, but >> > it would be good to see some justification case by case. >> >> Actually, only one occurrence of `read-char-choice' >> was replaced by `read-char-from-minibuffer'. > > Good. > > Could we please know which occurrence you changed, > and what the justification is? The changed occurrence is 'dired-query', and the justification is to fix the bug report #42708. Also I checked other 4 occurrences of `read-char-choice' in auth-source.el, emacs-lisp/package.el, net/tramp-cmds.el and progmodes/octave.el. But apparently they use more complex logic, so replacing them with `read-char-from-minibuffer' is not a straightforward task. >> > But if `read-char-choice' can itself remain in the >> > `read-char', `read-event', `read-key', etc. camp, then at >> > least that will be good, IMO. Thx. >> >> Yes, `read-char-choice' remains in that camp unchanged. > > Good. Thanks for that. From unknown Tue Jun 17 01:44:13 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#42708: Let users copy "*Char Help*" buffer Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 18:10:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 42708 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: fixed To: Juri Linkov Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , =?UTF-8?Q?=E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC?= Dan Jacobson , 42708@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 42708-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B42708.16052046016283 (code B ref 42708); Thu, 12 Nov 2020 18:10:01 +0000 Received: (at 42708) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Nov 2020 18:10:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45540 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kdH2m-0001dH-Sa for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 12 Nov 2020 13:10:01 -0500 Received: from aserp2130.oracle.com ([141.146.126.79]:58030) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kdH2k-0001d2-Bb for 42708@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 12 Nov 2020 13:10:00 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 0ACHxxDU187472; Thu, 12 Nov 2020 18:09:52 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=YhgA6DxqoYJbQOMwraMzdvqFBMCFDa/cSywKstVfpJA=; b=Tq/+sTFrgqkCSezwRuBhie9dZ9J6d5ktfFxoGpApv9DA07oeVeHwKZQFbtt4vkOS8ZHg /nQ8tl8WXHIkKcbYuV0z0G7SE4BwujzQ5FYhR7s4mAp3Gb39aBgpbahsQauYwCLjdYPX sREX3quOjZWJh0JMTBfSvh+gkMLDOoRYtAimFTRTM4Gg9YK+K9RFxhif6QIL9GgJi+gp KUZLhGd76XkydDBcnkDSRRf7Tg8c22PV41lWfcU9rg4864qWf59qJPehNSjnEzSCEv7G D5Toy2dqMRBXXoqxLC8BfdCSbRcERW3Asacw2bVggfojcXluW/IoCQ3wibS0OVOr35Ng Hw== Received: from aserp3020.oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [141.146.126.70]) by aserp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 34nh3b72y4-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 12 Nov 2020 18:09:52 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 0ACI10Hr067224; Thu, 12 Nov 2020 18:09:52 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 34p5g3emtv-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 12 Nov 2020 18:09:51 +0000 Received: from abhmp0003.oracle.com (abhmp0003.oracle.com [141.146.116.9]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 0ACI9iVM017130; Thu, 12 Nov 2020 18:09:45 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <9446af9b-293c-4ea7-8367-0e30c41e3009@default> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 10:09:41 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <87r1smy1du.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <877duerlw2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87h7the985.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6z8pr7f.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87bljogscr.fsf@gnus.org> <87r1q27rvz.fsf@gnus.org> <87pn4u1fxq.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87tutymyyb.fsf@gnus.org> <878sb9j7l0.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <20098a09-7605-4b1e-8ff4-a49316f367cb@default> <87a6voz57f.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <550f3cdd-8b71-457f-a903-84f43b04938d@default> <87y2j7slmo.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87y2j7t4hv.fsf@mail.linkov.net> In-Reply-To: <87y2j7t4hv.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5071.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9803 signatures=668682 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 malwarescore=0 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2011120106 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9803 signatures=668682 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 lowpriorityscore=0 priorityscore=1501 clxscore=1015 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 impostorscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2011120106 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > Could we please know which occurrence you changed, > > and what the justification is? >=20 > The changed occurrence is 'dired-query', > and the justification is to fix the bug report #42708. >=20 > Also I checked other 4 occurrences of `read-char-choice' in > auth-source.el, emacs-lisp/package.el, net/tramp-cmds.el > and progmodes/octave.el. But apparently they use more complex > logic, so replacing them with `read-char-from-minibuffer' > is not a straightforward task. Thanks. That's probably OK. I'll have to see, in practice. FWIW, my (Dired+) version of `dired-query' also allows char `l', which lists the files to be acted on, showing details per option `diredp-list-file-attributes': diredp-list-file-attributes is a variable defined in `dired+.el'. Its value is (5 8) Documentation: Which file attributes `diredp-list-file' uses, and when. A list of file attribute numbers means use only the values of those attributes. A non-list means use all attribute values.