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Reply-To: bug#42456 <42456@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2025 17:40:25 +0000 retitle 42456 [PATCH] gnu: Rename python-hy to hy. reassign 42456 guix-patches submitter 42456 Jesse Gibbons severity 42456 normal tag 42456 patch thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 21 02:10:00 2020 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jul 2020 06:10:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37410 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jxlTU-0003GM-Cu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 02:10:00 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:41752) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jxlTS-0003GF-7f for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 02:09:59 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46286) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jxlTS-0005DL-39 for guix-patches@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 02:09:58 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-x543.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::543]:34818) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jxlTQ-00010c-Ir for guix-patches@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 02:09:57 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-x543.google.com with SMTP id k27so11459984pgm.2 for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2020 23:09:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:subject:to:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=ovHuFhCA4ioRt6+dIJS7OIEui0Im3DXdTTsxiLKVOj8=; b=aX6+3vOweX7Sg69+o2yr/05fwfrVVM7IYRpNhtV3mgHmYHr7nO02l59zDpx4SQbdMJ eQNa22ajpLdUgLlBO5jnIJzTUjjGGX7Mtb3qjfLJ5e/OZ9/vSHMHilOr77I9TukJoPUj /7PtusO4Y3MtUrG/nhv1Zmc86o1OougC84AVC3mEbkNhz3tf5R3Xuhwp/6JbeGxkbbUE cEB9zlcyIfmHzSgpRU3SKUbkO8EZkjvawvUQjwyg3ZDvC+4OHAb8zrm+4QS2IXEsfApJ XUSoJY02Yfnq4AzWuZDAwYSNDPHXQf0ZVJwxxZo2/I+dmZPX2kRKS611vFqRMplkuQEM 2H0A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:subject:to:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=ovHuFhCA4ioRt6+dIJS7OIEui0Im3DXdTTsxiLKVOj8=; b=FAztefYrGhSf8cN5fADinH4W6ygnHpRBJ8chzfNqX1qbVd4TJUB3JHONYvUtceL6mg 1OEFrznTlWAC1lPxDS+yazLH5CJmUyZnSzNi5nT8tPPi9+X/dw0yAIRnJRH8PIX6Gi8j Ga5UfLKbTQuSt8kmdis5FEis6o3svv0SgS8U7oCSG1P2m++gtkesXXqRcMjEy0Psa9c8 9lPcXJPkX3lDh7f1xPBnoAMQUdVQPjbpRdkV/NKVhzNR9mFT1VLblT5UgDQuO/xMm3Cn MxAHStNKmLobI3fZRCXROSg/y82gfgPu9t/bhVedmj14mPhQW3EWkHr/PADf45nalBrI h+7A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530yOTVdTsMIJuMCuWkWOfQDd1QgYxI+62k75D/wveA9FN511o4s mGSAd3RRX/FeBsVQ4HCakceUrd5Q X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxQDfrUHh6kSoWm7QkarZuQfeN8C5VGHTBVnH7nS/HoZj+dUsouyMT3lMAngDEwBknOVn5mgg== X-Received: by 2002:a65:6411:: with SMTP id a17mr21685215pgv.450.1595311792644; Mon, 20 Jul 2020 23:09:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.25] ([38.141.58.134]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id nh14sm1638905pjb.4.2020.07.20.23.09.51 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 20 Jul 2020 23:09:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Jesse Gibbons Subject: [PATCH] gnu: Rename python-hy to hy. To: Guix Patches Message-ID: Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 00:09:50 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::543; envelope-from=jgibbons2357@gmail.com; helo=mail-pg1-x543.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) * gnu/packages/python-xyz.scm: (python-hy): Rename to hy. --- gnu/packages/python-xyz.scm | 4 ++-- 1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-) diff --git a/gnu/packages/python-xyz.scm b/gnu/packages/python-xyz.scm index 748f48f229..e1b16f9c23 100644 --- a/gnu/packages/python-xyz.scm +++ b/gnu/packages/python-xyz.scm @@ -9961,9 +9961,9 @@ with a new public API, and RPython support.") (define-public python2-rply (package-with-python2 python-rply)) -(define-public python-hy +(define-public hy (package - (name "python-hy") + (name "hy") (version "0.18.0") (source (origin (method url-fetch) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 21 15:27:03 2020 Received: (at 42456) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jul 2020 19:27:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40440 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jxxup-0007Bw-GF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 15:27:03 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-f179.google.com ([209.85.215.179]:44556) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jxxul-0007BP-2B for 42456@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 15:27:01 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-f179.google.com with SMTP id j19so12374163pgm.11 for <42456@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 12:26:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=to:from:subject:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=0yD5XmSKEpsu4BUawu8rIoAfs7DS+/AHmUaWxK9UCpI=; b=lgjVwvWdC9RnFjlgmm/++7na1otVjAAo1A8dvxLw+sem8adwbBLVjS1TYKnmjHNB9P BgMpsezSQdFvlQ/BzKZ7iI8cFhb+Hc4AeBh16cc4rJOTP06uiPUP+TmU5tjz/4cJCl+S h4gzXf/gcKx0YBieZpsowu2Kb9YXF1DY73K7Xcds6adZg+ALk4IYbNBCVrBzXA/gwqFE LaRlmWqDkSBlGO4VgEPWfhNTi/JyOUVKpTqZNkEh8WNQVsgf/PLfCF0fJmSI2NKqmqtK xyftzeOP48P9QzZrxBGF54AVj0zb4EsKAj70c7ArnM4hcNJrb9QW2BV9+/TLGIikmM6e b39g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:to:from:subject:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=0yD5XmSKEpsu4BUawu8rIoAfs7DS+/AHmUaWxK9UCpI=; b=qF+EiMzBEk+KrFftClIJl+e1CDPkaPMImr8Me9Elk1/5u6b6Mrry7Bc18nUPKEvJLL 7NglrESA1b/PW32XXPzS/vD+d0uG7mm8vOEl0T8UkqL5Z4c8V7GxNan8nVZGYOS6MUh/ CVF8ybdBka6rs4FZrsDVScw0x3D34Hei9FcJ1ipsjZfbvYclQcnvyzhlLhxdwNr5OSYF 9LH/LRv+LKNCesPZrOxmaawZkZUuAaqoS8DkBY+nCG9tEITrKmvHMgfAQSRc5dH2Wjbu 7oR5NHjkg75FzZkvprkj62S5t+OXHFQ+5q15Fzqv+T0+LwPt17nRMoo2/zBq5eGiHmS8 EhRg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532xlnKFOx8UJGCZWeLppoZIRyGgzIVYo4flodSP3GogfihQ+529 9agovc5Ur9hbd6iedFcQLgkZM1Ok X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzDnZI2/D6pJLQRBMq5kmWg4kRZ/lgYQyZbVgMTX0T3hM7Rf+PUW0Rq8DKirqNxmZGgHpyoJQ== X-Received: by 2002:a65:6403:: with SMTP id a3mr24325384pgv.246.1595359612829; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 12:26:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.25] ([38.141.58.134]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c132sm21059414pfb.112.2020.07.21.12.26.51 for <42456@debbugs.gnu.org> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 21 Jul 2020 12:26:52 -0700 (PDT) To: 42456@debbugs.gnu.org From: Jesse Gibbons Subject: re: [bug#42456] [PATCH] gnu: Rename python-hy to hy. Message-ID: <1dc02d59-c67b-2002-6a99-ceb0cdc24645@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 13:26:50 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 42456 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) I initially created this patch thinking hy is primarily an application. I brought this up in the IRC, and was told to send it and discuss it here. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 24 21:13:19 2020 Received: (at 42456) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jul 2020 01:13:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48996 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jz8kZ-0004l1-1j for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 21:13:19 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:45446) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jz8kU-0004kj-QY for 42456@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 21:13:18 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:36865) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jz8kP-00064m-K1; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 21:13:09 -0400 Received: from [2605:6000:1a0d:48fb::e9] (port=60680 helo=lenovo-t430) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jz8kP-0007Dj-71; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 21:13:09 -0400 From: Brett Gilio To: Jesse Gibbons Subject: Re: [bug#42456] [PATCH] gnu: Rename python-hy to hy. References: <1dc02d59-c67b-2002-6a99-ceb0cdc24645@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 20:13:05 -0500 In-Reply-To: <1dc02d59-c67b-2002-6a99-ceb0cdc24645@gmail.com> (Jesse Gibbons's message of "Tue, 21 Jul 2020 13:26:50 -0600") Message-ID: <87a6zo5rdq.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 42456 Cc: 42456@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Jesse Gibbons writes: > I initially created this patch thinking hy is primarily an > application. I brought this up in the IRC, and was told to send it and > discuss it here. Hi Jesse, I think if we rename Hy (and subsequently break the python-* naming convention) we should justify moving Hy perhaps to its own module. I am not overly familiar with Hy, I know that it uses and is compatible with Python libraries (as Hy is mostly just sugar on-top of the Python runtime) but do Hy-specific libraries exist? If so, I think that would make the case for moving Hy to its own module even stronger. Brett Gilio From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 25 11:44:46 2020 Received: (at 42456) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jul 2020 15:44:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50863 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jzMLt-0004Dj-PP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Jul 2020 11:44:45 -0400 Received: from mail-pj1-f65.google.com ([209.85.216.65]:37503) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jzMLp-0004DV-Am for 42456@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Jul 2020 11:44:45 -0400 Received: by mail-pj1-f65.google.com with SMTP id o22so7032622pjw.2 for <42456@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 25 Jul 2020 08:44:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=h4jg70G0ap4dVbXNS07ygpVHvEQfcyeP/YoLhnCAbQY=; b=cSbMMRYdLpTtw9w75Sm37CTz24OW0Ik4fvmy208/Vje+Y9v4N+2o0UACufUR2+reIP 33rP7uKdoixyR+aGDRshJ8PdQE7EIosmluzuoDoOgb45x5402qCLtrd5C0HDNHzgROHG BVRu+6i2hvH7QaS2aaNcqBm5o0p8sDf6GmFq+DBLCyJdbXLtdbGnF3CDdqAZUCIls2fz Du29XufhjeaUhSJhmwLDtOxL5kDWuCbBRcUu12XTMG1bn4PM0OyeJp32Pujv9Yn9YbN6 /ZJZKXBY1xrzXLKZmWegeDhJiND4w3C6NxMjRu6TO/ipdgTXRWvqJ1vvE2oha098Bbok 9Y9Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=h4jg70G0ap4dVbXNS07ygpVHvEQfcyeP/YoLhnCAbQY=; b=U0jw0Ty96aIdqdtfiboHWfAeV8ejiOCjSgtRmj28e4tXQoy7TVkYb5gCuwHudwig3V B82vJq97+lRUE9MR6nhYkrNcmmtXV9xAjRuLZvzYeYOzoyYz8Cgt8xVXiZdiJi+jx1aM tNQantWDF/drgepb18hq9fOk0PhUjyovih6l81l07uLWUS3DX4FBWf7zyDGhP1V3vo3h 1Vu8IfUCxfQo/aHdhai5TpNXjZKJFb/mxUu5sKgmENvdGUzrijfWD8XLXyBEQQIgDJqe /bah+wbm4yvxIyufkuYGXS1av2DHXbuE4zHF31rB1MkhUlf6yQKtnDvQ3PPb6I0KgIyG qKQQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530aQv69ouGhZ1WT3Zyg1SwE3NqRPRExuFtqmLLun+IQCwlwmsuL mM/hkdzOVBKNjmLGNbF40PhGv6Bc X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwRH2+GQku20oQjYFmgaoiQPT7f5b2rrnHm3l8K2hyfz9OUaZtu7YQxhcPgbC0O6u9JmsDdUg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:3044:: with SMTP id q4mr9732326pjl.81.1595691875035; Sat, 25 Jul 2020 08:44:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.25] ([38.141.58.134]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m9sm8788305pjs.18.2020.07.25.08.44.33 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 25 Jul 2020 08:44:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [bug#42456] [PATCH] gnu: Rename python-hy to hy. To: Brett Gilio References: <1dc02d59-c67b-2002-6a99-ceb0cdc24645@gmail.com> <87a6zo5rdq.fsf@gnu.org> From: Jesse Gibbons Message-ID: <08f72489-fb0b-c367-ff9e-6cb3beb4e127@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 09:44:32 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87a6zo5rdq.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 42456 Cc: 42456@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.1 (-) Though I do not know much about hy, I do know the following: - There are some libraries written in hy[0]. - There are tools written in hy specifically designed to handle hy.[1] - Some hy libraries contain macros that I don't think compile into python. It looks at first glance like hyclib[2] and hyiter[3] are examples of such packages, though I have not confirmed. - The libraries and programs I have found written in hy look like they would use python-build-system. If we see patterns in defining these packages, we can always provide a hy-build-system for convenience. [0]https://libraries.io/search?languages=Hy [1] https://libraries.io/github/hylang [2] https://libraries.io/pypi/hyclb [3]https://libraries.io/pypi/hyiter On 7/24/20 7:13 PM, Brett Gilio wrote: > we should justify moving Hy perhaps to its own module. I am > not overly familiar with Hy, I know that it uses and is compatible with > Python libraries (as Hy is mostly just sugar on-top of the Python > runtime) but do Hy-specific libraries exist? If so, I think that would > make the case for moving Hy to its own module even stronger. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 27 10:40:53 2020 Received: (at 42456) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jul 2020 14:40:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55486 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k04JB-0003tb-9a for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 10:40:53 -0400 Received: from mail-qk1-f196.google.com ([209.85.222.196]:37309) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k04J9-0003tM-0E for 42456@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 10:40:52 -0400 Received: by mail-qk1-f196.google.com with SMTP id b14so13709602qkn.4 for <42456@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 07:40:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=TxqX2ct/4AdhQ0dK2DekiM/0XBNHEczxce2WK3MNPyg=; b=IFb/OA8uhlFrQhPyUrX0NylCsV1stDTqlnLwRALCJtfubI59MMxKybZcCUUBcfEbY4 Ps8iqfvo7tN+kGKGo56EpyHesAMisDw6MAKNVCMOgnube2ZWR7yF92NInujuNm++Sw8g 61NmDHCegnLO7F52bHJpTNy6+jVqYYQd0ONOkztHYSP6ALIH+c7aAlqMKhWMvPFVd1Xs jRGvfK+hUnCa+InBe8Vg5by7EzO4LQMgFgxP5M00ob3Zlax/DetZRReDvsd8nksfac/s 3eoQQw71JyOqgz/KsvgN283q8wCq7ShLrEbIOidMZwgsE5HapmaRnNtPDsucY/0PrAQh 9orA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=TxqX2ct/4AdhQ0dK2DekiM/0XBNHEczxce2WK3MNPyg=; b=KccAwGfBy7p08/AI8GpaHX+Wc819+6qlN5fxdxUcFx6ogBAc/czF9J5MfGzhj9pmN0 BmvBI93WkbpDb6liNJ4zkaErjO+0vfoVNSAmrsB+rJkKIFet8G7xp2ynugj/0oHk/2dP Yrq4MgdAxnM+wKhzNDzwBbzdk2A5G8pqw14sAHEQWwYox1k4xfsT4KrSbfUu017PETHL SWCfGJ3qh4uxWzG364o0drmMh98VjkmkyDXrdrn3nM9/7cyldLgc/6PVjWV694RjlUy5 xzn7+Pyx5yaHN8/9eMRKY16Y3bzjNf8civcoYx6viQ9TKIGoM8UXlcIGBTUulZGH6vKn XHqQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531MPqfj/m9AUQt0MbzugRCPVbjw6NvP3biihD9IcrXcpFQMTQhD UGsVORJM0THCLGL61+Vmxe7Z+EDg5slHESATf9DgKw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzU3T4RYkiCqOLG0AlkPDt4KD4tQuqKwtfSp6yxJaxbWP+phPjPHeBBJVKC+xCu6fsebiEnA1o0HnfFPjYIrIQ= X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:16af:: with SMTP id s15mr21188783qkj.304.1595860845311; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 07:40:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1dc02d59-c67b-2002-6a99-ceb0cdc24645@gmail.com> <87a6zo5rdq.fsf@gnu.org> <08f72489-fb0b-c367-ff9e-6cb3beb4e127@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <08f72489-fb0b-c367-ff9e-6cb3beb4e127@gmail.com> From: zimoun Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 16:40:33 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bug#42456] [PATCH] gnu: Rename python-hy to hy. To: Jesse Gibbons Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 42456 Cc: 42456@debbugs.gnu.org, Brett Gilio X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Dear, On Sat, 25 Jul 2020 at 17:45, Jesse Gibbons wrote: > > Though I do not know much about hy, I do know the following: > > - There are some libraries written in hy[0]. > > - There are tools written in hy specifically designed to handle hy.[1] > > - Some hy libraries contain macros that I don't think compile into > python. It looks at first glance like hyclib[2] and hyiter[3] are > examples of such packages, though I have not confirmed. Hy uses the Python VM. Basically, the Hy Lisp is transformed into an AST (from ast import *) i.e. Python internals then evaluated using the Python VM (CPython or PyPy). Other said, any Hy code compiles to Python (and vice versa :-)). > - The libraries and programs I have found written in hy look like they > would use python-build-system. If we see patterns in defining these > packages, we can always provide a hy-build-system for convenience. I do not think it makes sense having 'hy-build-system' because Hy uses all the Python machinery, not to say Hy is simply Python with parenthensis. ;-) Other said, Python code can import Hy code, and vice versa, and not because there is "bindings" but because it is the same AST representation. Last, I am not convinced that Hy deserves a rename since it is another Python flavor. Well, similarly than python-on-guile which is in gnu/packages/guile-xyz.scm Cheers, simon From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 27 19:05:55 2020 Received: (at 42456) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jul 2020 23:05:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56010 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k0CBv-00066J-AA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 19:05:55 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-f193.google.com ([209.85.215.193]:38579) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k0CBu-000664-7N for 42456@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 19:05:54 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-f193.google.com with SMTP id e8so10798887pgc.5 for <42456@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 16:05:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=GgcSQTke3gSXAkIAk2VIztQgraRlmB1YRemxS+bS0o8=; b=oZjhyZMzXPJLnQjuZ2t6C6HkbJmOk9roF+xGH7pNVp6/sRiFL9JoThupu7Ogaf7XIh 99pt2y7xaPRmuSJilWDcrRQc3yxtiWr5xOpWTX+rRPUhtnK4CWzC32q+5wt7Kfi/WLpF AyTgtwbW89fVS4EJfLJCWvqLDWww6PgLBTvLGcldobBJfYuwL6C2OkQ1FYzTQqhCOMcI 5mzTymRi0b4NdFtog3XPW7j6tz+Pq1z8Dez8Pb8TLKLbbJ8gyMP05qJ5lI6Usz8t6f8V s3Deefo0VbCdJsizVuYHg8UzvUK0/Q6eywtahz0DMjIurTcpq/t6FlZODZFicqvChcKr uxbA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=GgcSQTke3gSXAkIAk2VIztQgraRlmB1YRemxS+bS0o8=; b=PQaPDBa2APetPkNK2T7Gp9GqgNFsdclGfOUqPLwFfp36jOnBFpAlRJeu0n+Oh1sITm Dgqmyq9T/SJXB0EPKuQRrhl5YlLYwXdoOCV0//Y0znpF8AxQMLxRMXeyuSRmyQBq1gHM SbWNjsyRED+80EENkV1bsH6HA/raULt5YZlb4dkoSrsq9nLn1dJ6Rq7ZLuoKObVM7Olc jUuDh3z+vLiqA0EcAOibVXQ30G9SsgadDJBlwcNbdZuCCy3fuc1Om5p1Vk9jdt16EHjI 6+wDJxWVqZ4FOTFwL+FQ4jtV4p2OEh6osDak66X2WW8BYwipu0d5/6rFgP+0h6IE8acW iGlQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530+Su8GITghaOTdbbCUxGs77NNkQjFHmAcw2XSP6L0eJkczqPlR WFhELEzGR+Rz1d2u07CPZ1YBkEum X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwLaApPuuxReNUZp2iKkYmQGG1CfBMHEgStub7Vo9tHpy7DjUKXWC0348TeiqCx3cPpZDTISg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:2257:: with SMTP id i23mr21285045pfu.25.1595891147565; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 16:05:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.25] ([38.141.58.134]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a3sm16204379pgd.73.2020.07.27.16.05.45 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 27 Jul 2020 16:05:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [bug#42456] [PATCH] gnu: Rename python-hy to hy. To: zimoun References: <1dc02d59-c67b-2002-6a99-ceb0cdc24645@gmail.com> <87a6zo5rdq.fsf@gnu.org> <08f72489-fb0b-c367-ff9e-6cb3beb4e127@gmail.com> From: Jesse Gibbons Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 17:05:43 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 42456 Cc: 42456@debbugs.gnu.org, Brett Gilio X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) It seems you understand a lot more about Hy than I do (I've never actually built a Hy app in my life, and I despise python (hence the interest in Hy)), so I have some questions. I'm trying to clear up some of my confusion. On 7/27/20 8:40 AM, zimoun wrote: > Hy uses the Python VM. Basically, the Hy Lisp is transformed into an > AST (from ast import *) i.e. Python internals then evaluated using the > Python VM (CPython or PyPy). > Other said, any Hy code compiles to Python (and vice versa :-)). What about Hy macros? According to https://docs.hylang.org/en/stable/language/api.html#require they make no changes to the program when imported with require. If I write a Hy library with nothing but useful macros, will python be able to use that? When I call Hy2py on a Hy file with nothing but the sample macro at https://docs.hylang.org/en/stable/language/api.html#defmacro it gives an error. Is this expected, or is this a guix-related bug? If this is expected, then I think Hy macros are significantly more useful to Hy than to python without the ast library, and if you want to use Hy macros for parts of a python app you might as well use Hy. > I do not think it makes sense having 'hy-build-system' because Hy uses > all the Python machinery, not to say Hy is simply Python with > parenthensis. ;-) As I mentioned, hy-build-system would just make things a little more convenient. Programs written even partially in Hy will require the Hy package, but I wouldn't bother hacking a new build system together unless there are other things required for all Hy packages. Do such things exist? If not, I will let it go. > Other said, Python code can import Hy code, and vice versa, and not > because there is "bindings" but because it is the same AST > representation. > > Last, I am not convinced that Hy deserves a rename since it is another > Python flavor. Well, similarly than python-on-guile which is in > gnu/packages/guile-xyz.scm > > > Cheers, > simon Similar things can be said of Clojure. Clojure is compiled into Java bytecode, then run on the Java VM. Java programs can run Clojure code, and vice versa. And just like Clojure and Java, Hy and Python have very different grammar and are therefore not the same language. Yet Clojure is not packaged as java-clojure. Though inconsistencies in naming conventions tend to bother me, I personally am indifferent about what Hy is named. As the saying goes, "A cactus by any other name would pop all the balloons you throw at it that don't completely miss it." (Or something like that.) I only submitted the patch because I had renamed python-hy to hy in my personal channel a while ago, and the people on the IRC suggested I should send the change as a patch when I mentioned it there recently. So if my patch is accepted is up to those who are more familiar with Hy and Guix than I am. I think the only time it will matter to me is if I am the first to submit a package that requires Hy, since such a package will be written for my channel and my channel won't be adjusted by then to build a package dependent on hy. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 27 22:17:16 2020 Received: (at 42456) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jul 2020 02:17:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56243 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k0FB5-0002PE-UL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 22:17:16 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-f67.google.com ([209.85.221.67]:38763) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k0FB3-0002P0-Px for 42456@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 22:17:14 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-f67.google.com with SMTP id a14so16718328wra.5 for <42456@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 19:17:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=jaixjY3WDzN8jW/8+RhtgMTtmawEhOhbwK3i7OoxBOA=; b=MRQXYdggl4/JvLWN2W4rcphlJC33Bx0OWnvc2dt+gzOhqsdJpwsBfep73/Jkv85d82 Y0CgHs8OZ1i0rGnOdLCQRfbuRGrfS3mGB0RB9l1GILo8GzoWuGUejTmnXjSsdp1/sj0t ODFeXeftaI2I+zfx4EC4T8RNXf7S581cBLJHh0bZGzf0uHqnPz8loAV93qWaZaMbhoLr orqXA3YI69TnXxoBwcPHE+bc4Vdi3Utn1x35eyfsEPK3Zc/wiMpPQabhsES8gUIBXUGg CjGEz+B+pO+Uhw9meKczxK/vL1zb4sWmV7i1uct2lzrjHOSaGuC5T5+pahMGhZN+wj1w zyRg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=jaixjY3WDzN8jW/8+RhtgMTtmawEhOhbwK3i7OoxBOA=; b=XMN84EyFk/dm26qe8E0bFjJXRHhtF/OZ7J+3P2T9FNN8NI2WzVVV6nEivbLgaRF+K6 Uhfcr2BA19tNyvLaoavoc5fAGzv6RD1h22d2S3mSN24srFjaejNmzPtUNqLU8k6/YssE OCsDvfMQE0+zDOayPrTuvc/sjMYcn7oudxI0M0HVqnZOfd0ZdI4nqqqP5QF9pnB5WG24 LnducRldRCljJfcj6iPymMqo/EnFqIIrNn/KVJaYD0ucQ2KN/P6ZqsxGBAxWPF1XeM6y 8PvqHYkrLAupq6pxQ7CcPBoXJOWfV2GDnO3yep7/LymLjpbXqKpiDTgB8x6ns+oJ3eI4 5llQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533ry2qXeTAKM01UUrF4IT+5+nz3aSy1A8ekAT/or0QicBzrRWnU P8JlMSCoJybmqvRrbhpeYRpXoFUw X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwnnRZTQ9AJsKSLxnk1Et8/Ms3UyH5QSv6mkWmQe05Jlp1VZsop39gtNjxLW/fmz+rgVCjtwA== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:6641:: with SMTP id f1mr22684111wrw.307.1595902627510; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 19:17:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lili ([2a01:e0a:59b:9120:65d2:2476:f637:db1e]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z127sm1829035wme.44.2020.07.27.19.17.06 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 27 Jul 2020 19:17:06 -0700 (PDT) From: zimoun To: Jesse Gibbons Subject: Re: [bug#42456] [PATCH] gnu: Rename python-hy to hy. In-Reply-To: References: <1dc02d59-c67b-2002-6a99-ceb0cdc24645@gmail.com> <87a6zo5rdq.fsf@gnu.org> <08f72489-fb0b-c367-ff9e-6cb3beb4e127@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 04:17:05 +0200 Message-ID: <86k0yoz8m6.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 42456 Cc: 42456@debbugs.gnu.org, Brett Gilio X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Dear, On Mon, 27 Jul 2020 at 17:05, Jesse Gibbons wrote: > What about Hy macros? According to > https://docs.hylang.org/en/stable/language/api.html#require they make no > changes to the program when imported with require. If I write a Hy > library with nothing but useful macros, will python be able to use that? Macros will be represented as HyExpression or something like that (I have not checked now and I have not played with Hy since 2014 :-)). Say an HyObject which then needs to be =E2=80=9Ccompiled=E2=80=9D into a Python= AST, then the Python AST is =E2=80=9Ccompiled=E2=80=9D to bytecode. https://docs.hylang.org/en/master/language/internals.html Or simply said: What if you want to use a macro that=E2=80=99s defined in a diff= erent module? import won=E2=80=99t help, because it merely translates = to a Python import statement that=E2=80=99s executed at run-time, and m= acros are expanded at compile-time, that is, during the translation from Hy to Python. Instead, use require, which imports the module and makes macros available at compile-time. require uses the same syntax as import. https://docs.hylang.org/en/master/tutorial.html#macros --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- $ hy --spy =3D> (defmacro do-while [condition &rest body] `(do ~body (while ~condition ~body))) from hy import HyExpression, HySymbol import hy hy.macros.macro('do-while')(lambda hyx_XampersandXname, condition, *body: HyExpression([] + [HySymbol('do')] + [body] + [HyExpression([] + [ HySymbol('while')] + [condition] + [body])])) --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- Does it make sense? > When I call Hy2py on a Hy file with nothing but the sample macro at > https://docs.hylang.org/en/stable/language/api.html#defmacro it gives an > error. Is this expected, or is this a guix-related bug? If this is > expected, then I think Hy macros are significantly more useful to Hy > than to python without the ast library, and if you want to use Hy macros > for parts of a python app you might as well use Hy. Python and Hy are not one-to-one. Hy also removes Python=E2=80=99s restrictions on mixing expression= s and statements, allowing for more direct and functional code. [=E2=80= =A6] https://docs.hylang.org/en/master/whyhy.html So your problem hy2py seems expected. The macro is represented by a Hy AST which cannot be compiled to Python AST. However, note that =E2=80=9Chy2py=E2=80=9D is not bullet-proof because goin= g from AST to Python code is not straightforward. --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- $ echo "(defn f [n] (+ n 1))" | hy2py --with-ast - Module( body=3D[ FunctionDef(name=3D'f', args=3Darguments(posonlyargs=3D[], args=3D[arg(arg=3D'n', annotation=3DNone)], vararg=3DNone, kwonlyargs=3D[], kw_defaults=3D[], kwarg=3DNone, defaults=3D[]), body=3D[Return(value=3DBinOp(left=3DName(id=3D'n'), op=3DAdd, r= ight=3DConstant(value=3D1)))], decorator_list=3D[], returns=3DNone) Traceback (most recent call last): File "/gnu/store/b2cyhq822sywidaqnpg6kminvr34z9rq-python-hy-0.18.0/bin/.h= y2py-real", line 12, in sys.exit(hy2py_main()) [...] File "/gnu/store/i7bq751zql0vw1mb3x20k7fla9ilszwh-python-astor-0.7.1/lib/p= ython3.8/site-packages/astor/op_util.py", line 102, in get_op_precedence return precedence_data[type(obj)] KeyError: --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- Well, it could also be a bug=E2=80=A6 :-) >> I do not think it makes sense having 'hy-build-system' because Hy uses >> all the Python machinery, not to say Hy is simply Python with >> parenthensis. ;-) > As I mentioned, hy-build-system would just make things a little more > convenient. Programs written even partially in Hy will require the Hy > package, but I wouldn't bother hacking a new build system together > unless there are other things required for all Hy packages. Do such > things exist? If not, I will let it go. >From my point of point, Hy packages are just Python packages. For instance, the 2 Hy libraries you mentioned are regular PyPI package, installable with =E2=80=9Cpip=E2=80=9D. Well, python-hy would be an implic= it dependency but AFAIK that=E2=80=99s all. > Similar things can be said of Clojure. Clojure is compiled into Java > bytecode, then run on the Java VM. Java programs can run Clojure code, > and vice versa. And just like Clojure and Java, Hy and Python have very > different grammar and are therefore not the same language. Yet Clojure > is not packaged as java-clojure. I do not know well Clojure neither the Java ecosystem. But I think the distribution of Clojure packages is a bit different than the distribution of some other Java packages. The tools used to build are not necessary the sames. Which is not the case for Hy: it uses =E2=80=9Cpi= p=E2=80=9D and/or the Python setuptools =E2=80=93 it could have changed since I am not following Hy very closely. > Though inconsistencies in naming conventions tend to bother me, I > personally am indifferent about what Hy is named. As the saying goes, "A > cactus by any other name would pop all the balloons you throw at it that > don't completely miss it." (Or something like that.) I only submitted > the patch because I had renamed python-hy to hy in my personal channel a > while ago, and the people on the IRC suggested I should send the change > as a patch when I mentioned it there recently. So if my patch is > accepted is up to those who are more familiar with Hy and Guix than I > am. I think the only time it will matter to me is if I am the first to > submit a package that requires Hy, since such a package will be written > for my channel and my channel won't be adjusted by then to build a > package dependent on hy. About the name, I am indifferent too. :-) Well, it could be nice to split the big Python files. ;-) All the best, simon ps: Note that I said =E2=80=9CHy code compiles to Python (and vice versa :-))= =E2=80=9D which is inaccurate; especially about the =E2=80=9Cvice versa=E2=80=9D. ;-) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 28 00:51:05 2020 Received: (at 42456) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jul 2020 04:51:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56927 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k0HZw-0006Gt-Ln for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Jul 2020 00:51:05 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-f193.google.com ([209.85.214.193]:46319) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k0HZq-0006GK-Ej for 42456@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Jul 2020 00:51:02 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-f193.google.com with SMTP id k13so1448217plk.13 for <42456@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 21:50:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=FmKY1GMmrDWRHf+LN6KtmcFmOP9iq7PwOpX0ThCb1ro=; b=Tfk5PF7hQ6l1HwS7dpQo4m+xAGz7PGT5AkB7KViIoUYtjVSyFtVaHiytW/qtDB6mp0 newHBW9oj4045PMdhKUIjwUglJ1BY8sMkwiuFsZyH3wdSaPbxQRB6Yte1ESv+PNwfByD k4AOlBoggGJRMyGg0tQuxEmluMMRU2432Rk34u+nsj0aqiTg72Z1NxMtxS5nJOebJ7A3 YTotbmtVQE6ANG/vW7pV4itm4WFc86t8P0Gn5bqNzEygxxPUKAmgXzMOY3KBa0wQ3pv2 kwijTFZ6khNDyBWkCDurPUrUSA8x891fQJb4vbebEInfZRMpuzevq3xIg2pkCvOt7Ext mxFA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=FmKY1GMmrDWRHf+LN6KtmcFmOP9iq7PwOpX0ThCb1ro=; b=aAb+MIM78Eb228axVXKoyHZ6FmIwWH+7f2/tbEEG4J5hvuVJ1niAjbKcosnHsF2w+v hpzkIhsiEwABw/JxgU3+yr/1ZdJx6TMIU9KApsafqc5w4gllEf3NmZZqfDaszbRKsqJj YhkKWJGszzkpHs/EpUhBMubSeQgq+iLk2ImdPy8FVE2lzWEPvfxEYV5vkek4kY++eGLw LESGDNieejM1DTxJ7vF/VY/IwyV99BEVRfupBZvLP3obf+9HjCQTJ3rvipVuBCAyhJRd oScjvm/1g1HQV+4rnCGddLPqKuTD6KrfJZDs15vfDwqj6kKWolXJI7Ee0V3kLx+VWZOh gnjA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532/SWcS0eh5UTDL3nrr0kr7fp9AtLQGFgQdNM0A6fhvbD2FdOzs 1ohARM0GSX/52JA9jUynngRIxlk5hj0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwTSyfG8B2RNC8xQheLW/tVD0SO6VYzSyd+2P+CaPRFlrSh4tN0M4tYk7197MqjMobj7/3kfw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:65c7:: with SMTP id i7mr2523185pjs.103.1595911851916; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 21:50:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.25] ([38.141.58.134]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u23sm16493536pgn.26.2020.07.27.21.50.50 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 27 Jul 2020 21:50:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [bug#42456] [PATCH] gnu: Rename python-hy to hy. To: zimoun References: <1dc02d59-c67b-2002-6a99-ceb0cdc24645@gmail.com> <87a6zo5rdq.fsf@gnu.org> <08f72489-fb0b-c367-ff9e-6cb3beb4e127@gmail.com> <86k0yoz8m6.fsf@gmail.com> From: Jesse Gibbons Message-ID: <378c3b08-6311-8f33-5fb3-25266700b038@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 22:50:49 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <86k0yoz8m6.fsf@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 42456 Cc: 42456@debbugs.gnu.org, Brett Gilio X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) On 7/27/20 8:17 PM, zimoun wrote: > Dear, > > On Mon, 27 Jul 2020 at 17:05, Jesse Gibbons wrote: > >> What about Hy macros? According to >> https://docs.hylang.org/en/stable/language/api.html#require they make no >> changes to the program when imported with require. If I write a Hy >> library with nothing but useful macros, will python be able to use that? > Macros will be represented as HyExpression or something like that (I > have not checked now and I have not played with Hy since 2014 :-)). Say > an HyObject which then needs to be “compiled” into a Python AST, then > the Python AST is “compiled” to bytecode. > > https://docs.hylang.org/en/master/language/internals.html > > Or simply said: > > What if you want to use a macro that’s defined in a different > module? import won’t help, because it merely translates to a > Python import statement that’s executed at run-time, and macros > are expanded at compile-time, that is, during the translation > from Hy to Python. Instead, use require, which imports the > module and makes macros available at compile-time. require uses > the same syntax as import. > > https://docs.hylang.org/en/master/tutorial.html#macros > > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- > $ hy --spy > => (defmacro do-while [condition &rest body] > `(do > ~body > (while ~condition > ~body))) > > from hy import HyExpression, HySymbol > import hy > hy.macros.macro('do-while')(lambda hyx_XampersandXname, condition, *body: > HyExpression([] + [HySymbol('do')] + [body] + [HyExpression([] + [ > HySymbol('while')] + [condition] + [body])])) > > > --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- > > Does it make sense? Yes. Thank you for the explanation. > >> When I call Hy2py on a Hy file with nothing but the sample macro at >> https://docs.hylang.org/en/stable/language/api.html#defmacro it gives an >> error. Is this expected, or is this a guix-related bug? If this is >> expected, then I think Hy macros are significantly more useful to Hy >> than to python without the ast library, and if you want to use Hy macros >> for parts of a python app you might as well use Hy. > Python and Hy are not one-to-one. > > Hy also removes Python’s restrictions on mixing expressions and > statements, allowing for more direct and functional code. […] > > https://docs.hylang.org/en/master/whyhy.html > > So your problem hy2py seems expected. The macro is represented by a Hy > AST which cannot be compiled to Python AST. > > However, note that “hy2py” is not bullet-proof because going from AST to > Python code is not straightforward. > > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- > $ echo "(defn f [n] (+ n 1))" | hy2py --with-ast - > Module( > body=[ > FunctionDef(name='f', > args=arguments(posonlyargs=[], > args=[arg(arg='n', annotation=None)], > vararg=None, > kwonlyargs=[], > kw_defaults=[], > kwarg=None, > defaults=[]), > body=[Return(value=BinOp(left=Name(id='n'), op=Add, right=Constant(value=1)))], > decorator_list=[], > returns=None) > > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/gnu/store/b2cyhq822sywidaqnpg6kminvr34z9rq-python-hy-0.18.0/bin/.hy2py-real", line 12, in > sys.exit(hy2py_main()) > [...] > File "/gnu/store/i7bq751zql0vw1mb3x20k7fla9ilszwh-python-astor-0.7.1/lib/python3.8/site-packages/astor/op_util.py", line 102, in get_op_precedence > return precedence_data[type(obj)] > KeyError: > --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- > > Well, it could also be a bug… :-) > > >>> I do not think it makes sense having 'hy-build-system' because Hy uses >>> all the Python machinery, not to say Hy is simply Python with >>> parenthensis. ;-) >> As I mentioned, hy-build-system would just make things a little more >> convenient. Programs written even partially in Hy will require the Hy >> package, but I wouldn't bother hacking a new build system together >> unless there are other things required for all Hy packages. Do such >> things exist? If not, I will let it go. > >From my point of point, Hy packages are just Python packages. For > instance, the 2 Hy libraries you mentioned are regular PyPI package, > installable with “pip”. Well, python-hy would be an implicit dependency > but AFAIK that’s all. Ok. Then there's not enough difference to justify hy-build-system. > >> Similar things can be said of Clojure. Clojure is compiled into Java >> bytecode, then run on the Java VM. Java programs can run Clojure code, >> and vice versa. And just like Clojure and Java, Hy and Python have very >> different grammar and are therefore not the same language. Yet Clojure >> is not packaged as java-clojure. > I do not know well Clojure neither the Java ecosystem. But I think the > distribution of Clojure packages is a bit different than the > distribution of some other Java packages. The tools used to build are > not necessary the sames. Which is not the case for Hy: it uses “pip” > and/or the Python setuptools – it could have changed since I am not > following Hy very closely. > I guess java isn't a good language to compare as far as build systems go. There are several build systems commonly used for java, but there are only one or two python build systems, and they all seem to work the same way. >> Though inconsistencies in naming conventions tend to bother me, I >> personally am indifferent about what Hy is named. As the saying goes, "A >> cactus by any other name would pop all the balloons you throw at it that >> don't completely miss it." (Or something like that.) I only submitted >> the patch because I had renamed python-hy to hy in my personal channel a >> while ago, and the people on the IRC suggested I should send the change >> as a patch when I mentioned it there recently. So if my patch is >> accepted is up to those who are more familiar with Hy and Guix than I >> am. I think the only time it will matter to me is if I am the first to >> submit a package that requires Hy, since such a package will be written >> for my channel and my channel won't be adjusted by then to build a >> package dependent on hy. > About the name, I am indifferent too. :-) > Well, it could be nice to split the big Python files. ;-) > > > All the best, > simon > > ps: > Note that I said “Hy code compiles to Python (and vice versa :-))” which > is inaccurate; especially about the “vice versa”. ;-) You cleared up all my confusion. Thank you. -Jesse From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 28 05:51:25 2020 Received: (at 42456) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jul 2020 09:51:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57299 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k0MGa-0005L1-TW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Jul 2020 05:51:25 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-f65.google.com ([209.85.128.65]:53661) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k0MGY-0005Ko-Ui for 42456@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Jul 2020 05:51:23 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-f65.google.com with SMTP id g8so5537689wmk.3 for <42456@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 28 Jul 2020 02:51:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :mime-version; bh=A1sjCLVGWwOxkwBsG2VXeGlCNgy688i5MI9tfsKFzpM=; b=cR1apcHnV7zZiA+ASaVYx1CmXA7a3w7ZsYJ5s2y3M3Nr33KiWyJ8boJKsw55EQ3Bi7 6NUtS8jI6aOEqjryOZ/Dd1uEwzb/CUtGysWVxO9MumS26dY6VNLu89CioVKISnmc2QFa DMXq295FS90B/No1WfwwXzxXNIe4rCPl+PonQDEapPD4r7fVdnrgDSq2ZITGGZAcTNDs PW2p1zAjE8T4dKYRQVahox13C8dBU9UGH0M4IyUXUvjvEiQ60uez10WhERpmRRFjaQUC plgyI4nND8GsLEo2T2fD98Tb+quU8DcPaO85VlUmp/f+iF6rJF47xWjF8mp7NDVIjfFr UkXQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:mime-version; bh=A1sjCLVGWwOxkwBsG2VXeGlCNgy688i5MI9tfsKFzpM=; b=NJZVEH9d2MJyUGUWGjJ5Mywbfp2JUPU2XBl47b9djOSlo27vP6C8M1x7tsNieD94yW YMhgy3DzOhYjOGTRdgtI0dPPgBXhe2eeVRKJkEGs80viIwARRfeEtyQszDxNtYfETTvo Q2zt6IvFpYpRya9aMpc6Hlpez/LtVubwlF6LwbHhGzxaFpoEhjy2u4X4CcWWNTNfcQdG 89L8S+z2q8GbkEhYAln7QTAaDKniqnQzKIi2iyHgQS7gEI/mZAg6vHEdq4/XhGrB+hHQ CM4T9yTXAsXPdTFYDp1ihrG/d3SJdljz/00UE1fr3c/FYnVkhM/rrRaM+bsUUY8EhmXp waNQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532tvwN02qLO7UlORDUZpLvkLVzVmcJzKFEVYoVVSGFm0N4Q0XZa ppFSDKaTYNQfx2soCekYKI/ZQJUy X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzESA/TINYHFOSx3XiUaNhM0rejrEjCab3/t+02U42tjOrAyUcuMC79fGoBhsKXZn1TSQ/nDA== X-Received: by 2002:a7b:c0c8:: with SMTP id s8mr3384438wmh.4.1595929876780; Tue, 28 Jul 2020 02:51:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lili ([2a01:e0a:59b:9120:65d2:2476:f637:db1e]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 32sm16047057wrn.86.2020.07.28.02.51.15 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 28 Jul 2020 02:51:16 -0700 (PDT) From: zimoun To: Jesse Gibbons Subject: Re: [bug#42456] [PATCH] gnu: Rename python-hy to hy. In-Reply-To: <378c3b08-6311-8f33-5fb3-25266700b038@gmail.com> References: <1dc02d59-c67b-2002-6a99-ceb0cdc24645@gmail.com> <87a6zo5rdq.fsf@gnu.org> <08f72489-fb0b-c367-ff9e-6cb3beb4e127@gmail.com> <86k0yoz8m6.fsf@gmail.com> <378c3b08-6311-8f33-5fb3-25266700b038@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 11:51:14 +0200 Message-ID: <867duoynl9.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 42456 Cc: 42456@debbugs.gnu.org, Brett Gilio X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Dear, Without going too far from the initial thread topic, Hy asks a good question. > Ok. Then there's not enough difference to justify hy-build-system. The question is how to switch the Python VM and still keep consistent packages. Well, related to this discussion: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2020-07/msg00115.html And Hy could a nice test-case. All the best, simon From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jun 30 23:03:11 2024 Received: (at 42456) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Jul 2024 03:03:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59580 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1sO7Jv-0000er-1C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 30 Jun 2024 23:03:11 -0400 Received: from mx2.dismail.de ([159.69.191.136]:1816) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1sO7Jt-0000ed-9X for 42456@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 30 Jun 2024 23:03:09 -0400 Received: from mx2.dismail.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.dismail.de (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 625a47d6; Mon, 1 Jul 2024 05:03:03 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=dismail.de; h=from:to:cc :subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type; s=20190914; bh=VCOxEMCUYRbfmQgAYYyuSoMYOARaFyXmh4Fwrw9G9vU=; b= MPD7Si2zTtglvGzuSvIgB7YnfJAOrqFim6URaglxC+7dOLxpc6pl+BYVjWGw0zNi /8/SqJjRV2lqDvSFVfACJRLIYHQUmxAMiu9ulUpC3Q/mxD87KcRaLHwo2EjDFqOe 1VPpuaZAX6dNmYv6amsCs4hd9QdA5Z+wtpCiGtdFa1UensLF90V+LQ9u+BilLxxU mgQVq3A+CKGr1a8rmJ3huWu1sWLzCVtpqgJ/bGxRnQD7abcgORlw23Lg2VOG/Tb3 dV68EOzVAC+9aWxvKa/UlHO5vuhmYmC3A9VzJ//GkjWTOsRIJh9Br7qCHjYdav7C t8hdzPLSb8jJXLIq3ONEZQ== Received: from smtp1.dismail.de ( [10.240.26.11]) by mx2.dismail.de (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 5d33786e; Mon, 1 Jul 2024 05:03:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp1.dismail.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.dismail.de (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 79d3702b; Mon, 1 Jul 2024 05:03:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: by dismail.de (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 702751a7 (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Mon, 1 Jul 2024 05:03:01 +0200 (CEST) From: jgart To: 42456@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: [PATCH] gnu: Rename python-hy to hy. In-Reply-To: <867duoynl9.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2024 22:02:57 -0500 Message-ID: <875xtpolum.fsf@dismail.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 42456 Cc: Jesse Gibbons , Brett Gilio , zimoun X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hy! What is the status on this ticket? ;() -- Best regards, jgart