From unknown Tue Jun 17 01:37:42 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#42296 <42296@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#42296 <42296@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 27.0.91; Correct manual entry for 'concat' w.r.t. allocation [PATCH] Reply-To: bug#42296 <42296@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2025 08:37:42 +0000 retitle 42296 27.0.91; Correct manual entry for 'concat' w.r.t. allocation = [PATCH] reassign 42296 emacs submitter 42296 Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd severity 42296 normal tag 42296 patch thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 09 11:54:23 2020 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jul 2020 15:54:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41500 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jtYsQ-0007HH-If for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jul 2020 11:54:23 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:49308) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jtYsN-0007H8-TH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jul 2020 11:54:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53384) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jtYsN-0004hl-Eg for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jul 2020 11:54:19 -0400 Received: from mail221c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.10.231]:49352 helo=mail33c50.megamailservers.eu) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jtYsK-0006va-5S for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jul 2020 11:54:19 -0400 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1594310052; bh=o+TGIfjiQEWNIaqyJozySWxPKU0exEhA7cpYQN/rQFQ=; h=From:Subject:Date:To:From; b=l+5wiuVL1TzIatwxQhPB+S5CMpzonu6N9CLLfeb8CblixIXY94sKHkBvPkStQvSXn 5+XO6657KUR6+Co7xXjwsIg42C04we+wNLQtgKR7LBXbtLauY8j5KI1HBu+0h0f/hh zlQnlQjzyH50E3Pd7EXpMdu5zE68pTALhxLZcQq4= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from [192.168.0.4] (c188-150-171-71.bredband.comhem.se [188.150.171.71]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail33c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 069FsAEr005440 for ; Thu, 9 Jul 2020 15:54:12 +0000 From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6887F1F4-77DB-4E43-8D8A-31D6757FF5BF" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.14\)) Subject: 27.0.91; Correct manual entry for 'concat' w.r.t. allocation [PATCH] Message-Id: Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2020 17:54:10 +0200 To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.14) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A782F24.5F073D1A.0053, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-CSC: 0 X-CHA: v=2.3 cv=eaJDgIMH c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=SF+I6pRkHZhrawxbOkkvaA==:117 a=SF+I6pRkHZhrawxbOkkvaA==:17 a=M51BFTxLslgA:10 a=TJ_5Z41fBf7q6nEcwbcA:9 a=7bI3PQ_svf5etAHe:21 a=MBtCreXU4WKAqpxK:21 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=FHrI4yowtIExUguvRmkA:9 a=B2y7HmGcmWMA:10 Received-SPF: softfail client-ip=91.136.10.231; envelope-from=mattiase@acm.org; helo=mail33c50.megamailservers.eu X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/07/09 11:54:13 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x (no timestamps) [generic] X-Spam_score_int: -11 X-Spam_score: -1.2 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.2 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) --Apple-Mail=_6887F1F4-77DB-4E43-8D8A-31D6757FF5BF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 'concat' hasn't guaranteed the allocation of a new string since 1997 at = least (79d137ffe7d). Remove claims to the contrary from the manual. --Apple-Mail=_6887F1F4-77DB-4E43-8D8A-31D6757FF5BF Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0001-Correct-concat-manual-entry.patch Content-Type: application/octet-stream; x-unix-mode=0644; name="0001-Correct-concat-manual-entry.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =46rom=203c6d4f9cefc7571df26e390b94f1c39da08a78e1=20Mon=20Sep=2017=20= 00:00:00=202001=0AFrom:=20=3D?UTF-8?q?Mattias=3D20Engdeg=3DC3=3DA5rd?=3D=20= =0ADate:=20Thu,=209=20Jul=202020=2017:32:13=20+0200=0A= Subject:=20[PATCH]=20Correct=20'concat'=20manual=20entry=0A=0A*=20= doc/lispref/strings.texi=20(Creating=20Strings):=20'concat'=20does=20not=0A= necessarily=20return=20a=20newly=20allocated=20string.=20=20This=20has=20= been=20the=20case=0Aat=20least=20since=201997=20(Emacs=2020.3).=0A---=0A=20= doc/lispref/strings.texi=20|=206=20+-----=0A=201=20file=20changed,=201=20= insertion(+),=205=20deletions(-)=0A=0Adiff=20--git=20= a/doc/lispref/strings.texi=20b/doc/lispref/strings.texi=0Aindex=20= 2ef88b9025..0aab326dc7=20100644=0A---=20a/doc/lispref/strings.texi=0A+++=20= b/doc/lispref/strings.texi=0A@@=20-248,7=20+248,7=20@@=20Creating=20= Strings=0A=20@defun=20concat=20&rest=20sequences=0A=20@cindex=20copying=20= strings=0A=20@cindex=20concatenating=20strings=0A-This=20function=20= returns=20a=20new=20string=20consisting=20of=20the=20characters=20in=20= the=0A+This=20function=20returns=20a=20string=20consisting=20of=20the=20= characters=20in=20the=0A=20arguments=20passed=20to=20it=20(along=20with=20= their=20text=20properties,=20if=20any).=20=20The=0A=20arguments=20may=20= be=20strings,=20lists=20of=20numbers,=20or=20vectors=20of=20numbers;=20= they=0A=20are=20not=20themselves=20changed.=20=20If=20@code{concat}=20= receives=20no=20arguments,=20it=0A@@=20-269,10=20+269,6=20@@=20Creating=20= Strings=0A=20@end=20example=0A=20=0A=20@noindent=0A-This=20function=20= always=20constructs=20a=20new=20string=20that=20is=20not=20@code{eq}=20= to=0A-any=20existing=20string,=20except=20when=20the=20result=20is=20the=20= empty=20string=20(to=0A-save=20space,=20Emacs=20makes=20only=20one=20= empty=20multibyte=20string).=0A-=0A=20For=20information=20about=20other=20= concatenation=20functions,=20see=20the=0A=20description=20of=20= @code{mapconcat}=20in=20@ref{Mapping=20Functions},=0A=20@code{vconcat}=20= in=20@ref{Vector=20Functions},=20and=20@code{append}=20in=20= @ref{Building=0A--=20=0A2.21.1=20(Apple=20Git-122.3)=0A=0A= --Apple-Mail=_6887F1F4-77DB-4E43-8D8A-31D6757FF5BF-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 09 13:32:01 2020 Received: (at 42296) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jul 2020 17:32:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41593 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jtaOv-0001DU-Bu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jul 2020 13:32:01 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40208) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jtaOr-0001DF-R8 for 42296@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jul 2020 13:31:59 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:32870) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jtaOm-0006Gi-BC; Thu, 09 Jul 2020 13:31:52 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1697 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jtaOl-0002hD-LN; Thu, 09 Jul 2020 13:31:52 -0400 Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2020 20:31:38 +0300 Message-Id: <83wo3cppc5.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: (message from Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= on Thu, 9 Jul 2020 17:54:10 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#42296: 27.0.91; Correct manual entry for 'concat' w.r.t. allocation [PATCH] References: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 42296 Cc: 42296@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Mattias Engdegård > Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2020 17:54:10 +0200 > > 'concat' hasn't guaranteed the allocation of a new string since 1997 at least (79d137ffe7d). Remove claims to the contrary from the manual. This loses too much useful information, IMO. Let's please say that the result is sometimes ("frequently"?), but not always, a new string, and that programs should not rely on that aspect. Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 09 13:57:12 2020 Received: (at 42296) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jul 2020 17:57:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41638 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jtanI-0001ql-G4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jul 2020 13:57:12 -0400 Received: from mail1446c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.14.46]:37426 helo=mail265c50.megamailservers.eu) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jtanG-0001qP-5W for 42296@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jul 2020 13:57:11 -0400 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1594317422; bh=WRGgLP5Dq+YPi/imaZoL+YPgubVyfTu5d6ljc5AQnIY=; h=From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:From; b=sAhUA/Gbvpcdffr3fpWNyrxnfLb76qbi3GVp+jR6D4o61P3+oxscncDRHOytU48ZL 1ES/C3muuUvVo4pgEt/2ycUp5qYaCEWUK4X7pmYgfEsIKXXxRJ1guHmwLVRyndtI1Z k+ClI3HXTRoZFg1t3BWx5WgElemKOQ1kd4uYWCww= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from [192.168.0.4] (c188-150-171-71.bredband.comhem.se [188.150.171.71]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail265c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 069Hv01b006451; Thu, 9 Jul 2020 17:57:01 +0000 From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Message-Id: <669987BB-B825-4C2C-B9FD-31F04E0D6013@acm.org> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F5C8CD57-08AA-452C-9564-2DC9FB330F35" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.14\)) Subject: Re: bug#42296: 27.0.91; Correct manual entry for 'concat' w.r.t. allocation [PATCH] Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2020 19:56:59 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83wo3cppc5.fsf@gnu.org> To: Eli Zaretskii References: <83wo3cppc5.fsf@gnu.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.14) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A782F1B.5F075A6E.002C, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-CSC: 0 X-CHA: v=2.3 cv=D5w51cZj c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=SF+I6pRkHZhrawxbOkkvaA==:117 a=SF+I6pRkHZhrawxbOkkvaA==:17 a=M51BFTxLslgA:10 a=mDV3o1hIAAAA:8 a=6j5M9Ft6w2J5WWEkYPcA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=FHrI4yowtIExUguvRmkA:9 a=B2y7HmGcmWMA:10 a=_FVE-zBwftR9WsbkzFJk:22 X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: 9 juli 2020 kl. 19.31 skrev Eli Zaretskii : > This loses too much useful information, IMO. Let's please say that > the result is sometimes ("frequently"?), but not always, a new string, > and that programs should not rely on that aspect. Content analysis details: (1.2 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: gnu.org] 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 0.3 KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS Relay HELO differs from its IP's reverse DNS X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 42296 Cc: 42296@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) --Apple-Mail=_F5C8CD57-08AA-452C-9564-2DC9FB330F35 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 9 juli 2020 kl. 19.31 skrev Eli Zaretskii : > This loses too much useful information, IMO. Let's please say that > the result is sometimes ("frequently"?), but not always, a new string, > and that programs should not rely on that aspect. Here is a new version that adds this information, and recommends = copy-sequence for mutability. --Apple-Mail=_F5C8CD57-08AA-452C-9564-2DC9FB330F35 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0001-Correct-concat-manual-entry.patch Content-Type: application/octet-stream; x-unix-mode=0644; name="0001-Correct-concat-manual-entry.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =46rom=204fcd3b13509ab94ddd552d3478c7c3cd9fe95279=20Mon=20Sep=2017=20= 00:00:00=202001=0AFrom:=20=3D?UTF-8?q?Mattias=3D20Engdeg=3DC3=3DA5rd?=3D=20= =0ADate:=20Thu,=209=20Jul=202020=2017:32:13=20+0200=0A= Subject:=20[PATCH]=20Correct=20'concat'=20manual=20entry=0A=0A*=20= doc/lispref/strings.texi=20(Creating=20Strings):=20'concat'=20does=20not=0A= necessarily=20return=20a=20newly=20allocated=20string.=20=20This=20has=20= been=20the=20case=0Aat=20least=20since=201997=20(Emacs=2020.3).=0A---=0A=20= doc/lispref/strings.texi=20|=208=20++++----=0A=201=20file=20changed,=204=20= insertions(+),=204=20deletions(-)=0A=0Adiff=20--git=20= a/doc/lispref/strings.texi=20b/doc/lispref/strings.texi=0Aindex=20= 2ef88b9025..455f3efc27=20100644=0A---=20a/doc/lispref/strings.texi=0A+++=20= b/doc/lispref/strings.texi=0A@@=20-248,7=20+248,7=20@@=20Creating=20= Strings=0A=20@defun=20concat=20&rest=20sequences=0A=20@cindex=20copying=20= strings=0A=20@cindex=20concatenating=20strings=0A-This=20function=20= returns=20a=20new=20string=20consisting=20of=20the=20characters=20in=20= the=0A+This=20function=20returns=20a=20string=20consisting=20of=20the=20= characters=20in=20the=0A=20arguments=20passed=20to=20it=20(along=20with=20= their=20text=20properties,=20if=20any).=20=20The=0A=20arguments=20may=20= be=20strings,=20lists=20of=20numbers,=20or=20vectors=20of=20numbers;=20= they=0A=20are=20not=20themselves=20changed.=20=20If=20@code{concat}=20= receives=20no=20arguments,=20it=0A@@=20-269,9=20+269,9=20@@=20Creating=20= Strings=0A=20@end=20example=0A=20=0A=20@noindent=0A-This=20function=20= always=20constructs=20a=20new=20string=20that=20is=20not=20@code{eq}=20= to=0A-any=20existing=20string,=20except=20when=20the=20result=20is=20the=20= empty=20string=20(to=0A-save=20space,=20Emacs=20makes=20only=20one=20= empty=20multibyte=20string).=0A+The=20returned=20string=20cannot=20be=20= relied=20upon=20to=20be=20unique=20or=20newly=0A+allocated;=20it=20= should=20be=20considered=20immutable.=20=20Use=0A+@code{copy-sequence}=20= on=20the=20result=20if=20a=20mutable=20string=20is=20needed.=0A=20=0A=20= For=20information=20about=20other=20concatenation=20functions,=20see=20= the=0A=20description=20of=20@code{mapconcat}=20in=20@ref{Mapping=20= Functions},=0A--=20=0A2.21.1=20(Apple=20Git-122.3)=0A=0A= --Apple-Mail=_F5C8CD57-08AA-452C-9564-2DC9FB330F35-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 09 14:51:41 2020 Received: (at 42296) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jul 2020 18:51:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41672 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jtbe0-0003RR-Ms for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jul 2020 14:51:40 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:60236) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jtbdy-0003R7-Aq for 42296@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jul 2020 14:51:40 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:34068) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jtbds-0002Hv-Pf; Thu, 09 Jul 2020 14:51:32 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2787 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jtbds-0003bF-A7; Thu, 09 Jul 2020 14:51:32 -0400 Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2020 21:51:19 +0300 Message-Id: <83r1tkplnc.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <669987BB-B825-4C2C-B9FD-31F04E0D6013@acm.org> (message from Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= on Thu, 9 Jul 2020 19:56:59 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#42296: 27.0.91; Correct manual entry for 'concat' w.r.t. allocation [PATCH] References: <83wo3cppc5.fsf@gnu.org> <669987BB-B825-4C2C-B9FD-31F04E0D6013@acm.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 42296 Cc: 42296@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Mattias Engdegård > Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2020 19:56:59 +0200 > Cc: 42296@debbugs.gnu.org > > > This loses too much useful information, IMO. Let's please say that > > the result is sometimes ("frequently"?), but not always, a new string, > > and that programs should not rely on that aspect. > > Here is a new version that adds this information, and recommends copy-sequence for mutability. That's not really what I asked for. And how does mutability enter the picture? We could say something about it (but then we'd have to be less terse), but that doesn't in any way replace the need to say that in many cases the value will be a new string, IMO. Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 09 15:17:29 2020 Received: (at 42296) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jul 2020 19:17:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41687 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jtc2z-00043E-1a for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jul 2020 15:17:29 -0400 Received: from mail1470c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.14.70]:51492 helo=mail102c50.megamailservers.eu) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jtc2w-00042x-9W for 42296@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jul 2020 15:17:27 -0400 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1594322238; bh=sxESmmN8BJL46p01wK3BxgeSWCCw/2/33bmnctuk2yc=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=N3cg7CkR2a+yMxZVJt6Y4boZ9vYg0fxRi9emL19lRVSraq3um30J3OEx3Z4PuhOdx grsPt6aVlHDCl+parjScBPMBQ29rTMRnhjpn5mMVG2hlyXTxjxZsvz9OIc8Yosb9Ik BVStGviFMAFK2yKevBBwJb709g6eNI/sSN3CJ4nU= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from [192.168.0.4] (c188-150-171-71.bredband.comhem.se [188.150.171.71]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail102c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 069JHFeo016679; Thu, 9 Jul 2020 19:17:18 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.14\)) Subject: Re: bug#42296: 27.0.91; Correct manual entry for 'concat' w.r.t. allocation [PATCH] From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <83r1tkplnc.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2020 21:17:14 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <83wo3cppc5.fsf@gnu.org> <669987BB-B825-4C2C-B9FD-31F04E0D6013@acm.org> <83r1tkplnc.fsf@gnu.org> To: Eli Zaretskii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.14) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A782F1B.5F076D3E.005F, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-CSC: 0 X-CHA: v=2.3 cv=S52nP7kP c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=SF+I6pRkHZhrawxbOkkvaA==:117 a=SF+I6pRkHZhrawxbOkkvaA==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=M51BFTxLslgA:10 a=mDV3o1hIAAAA:8 a=beGospyKzLg0JuC9yE0A:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=_FVE-zBwftR9WsbkzFJk:22 X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: 9 juli 2020 kl. 20.51 skrev Eli Zaretskii : > That's not really what I asked for. Then I misunderstood; would you explain what you mean in a different way? The old text incorrectly stated that the return value always is a new string; the last patch changes this to saying that the v [...] Content analysis details: (1.2 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: gnu.org] 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 0.3 KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS Relay HELO differs from its IP's reverse DNS X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 42296 Cc: 42296@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) 9 juli 2020 kl. 20.51 skrev Eli Zaretskii : > That's not really what I asked for. Then I misunderstood; would you explain what you mean in a different = way? The old text incorrectly stated that the return value always is a new = string; the last patch changes this to saying that the value may or may = not be a new string, and that the user therefore shouldn't assume that = the value be mutable. If that was not what you asked for, then what was = it, and why? > And how does mutability enter the picture? We could say something > about it (but then we'd have to be less terse), but that doesn't in > any way replace the need to say that in many cases the value will be a > new string, IMO. Sorry, but I still don't understand. What salient quality is there other = than mutability? There is identity (uniqueness), but that is included as = well. No user is ever worried about that the returned value may actually = be a new string; it's very much the other way around. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 09 15:20:43 2020 Received: (at 42296) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jul 2020 19:20:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41691 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jtc67-00047o-Hd for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jul 2020 15:20:43 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39020) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jtc64-00047a-Of for 42296@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jul 2020 15:20:41 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:34430) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jtc5z-0005xx-H7; Thu, 09 Jul 2020 15:20:35 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4580 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jtc5y-0002s7-LW; Thu, 09 Jul 2020 15:20:35 -0400 Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2020 22:20:20 +0300 Message-Id: <83pn94pkaz.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: mattiase@acm.org In-Reply-To: <83r1tkplnc.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Thu, 09 Jul 2020 21:51:19 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#42296: 27.0.91; Correct manual entry for 'concat' w.r.t. allocation [PATCH] References: <83wo3cppc5.fsf@gnu.org> <669987BB-B825-4C2C-B9FD-31F04E0D6013@acm.org> <83r1tkplnc.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 42296 Cc: 42296@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2020 21:51:19 +0300 > From: Eli Zaretskii > Cc: 42296@debbugs.gnu.org > > That's not really what I asked for. > > And how does mutability enter the picture? We could say something > about it (but then we'd have to be less terse), but that doesn't in > any way replace the need to say that in many cases the value will be a > new string, IMO. Here's what I had in mind: This function frequently, but not always, constructs a new string that is not @code{eq} to any existing string. Lisp programs should not rely on the result being a new string nor on it being @code{eq} to an existing string. When this function returns a string @code{eq] to another, changing the result will also change that other string; to avoid that, use @code{copy-sequence} on the result. WDYT? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 09 15:24:24 2020 Received: (at 42296) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jul 2020 19:24:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41704 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jtc9f-0004Dq-P3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jul 2020 15:24:23 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39912) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jtc9d-0004Dc-Sf for 42296@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jul 2020 15:24:22 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:34462) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jtc9Y-0006IW-L1; Thu, 09 Jul 2020 15:24:16 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4810 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jtc9X-0003Ad-QZ; Thu, 09 Jul 2020 15:24:16 -0400 Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2020 22:24:03 +0300 Message-Id: <83o8oopk4s.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: (message from Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= on Thu, 9 Jul 2020 21:17:14 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#42296: 27.0.91; Correct manual entry for 'concat' w.r.t. allocation [PATCH] References: <83wo3cppc5.fsf@gnu.org> <669987BB-B825-4C2C-B9FD-31F04E0D6013@acm.org> <83r1tkplnc.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 42296 Cc: 42296@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Feedback-ID:mattiase@acm.or > From: Mattias Engdegård > Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2020 21:17:14 +0200 > Cc: 42296@debbugs.gnu.org > > 9 juli 2020 kl. 20.51 skrev Eli Zaretskii : > > > That's not really what I asked for. > > Then I misunderstood; would you explain what you mean in a different way? I tried to explain that by showing the text I had in mind; I sent that a minute ago. > > And how does mutability enter the picture? We could say something > > about it (but then we'd have to be less terse), but that doesn't in > > any way replace the need to say that in many cases the value will be a > > new string, IMO. > > Sorry, but I still don't understand. What salient quality is there other than mutability? There is identity (uniqueness), but that is included as well. No user is ever worried about that the returned value may actually be a new string; it's very much the other way around. To my mind, immutability (or, rather, the adverse effects of modifying the result of 'concat') is the result of the identity. So it is conceptually wrong to talk about mutability _instead_ of the identity. Identity is the basic reason, immutability is the side effect. Which is what I tried to say in the text I suggested. Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 10 13:04:57 2020 Received: (at 42296) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jul 2020 17:04:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43323 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jtwSG-0008Bu-QR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jul 2020 13:04:57 -0400 Received: from mail71c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.10.81]:36794 helo=mail92c50.megamailservers.eu) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jtwSD-0008Bj-8X for 42296@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jul 2020 13:04:55 -0400 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1594400691; bh=E4vZ4vxVjjbYw0lVpm0w+IcieBKUytF8lXzIsnUDHqI=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=T3OnDWO7tXVGpV3E8ZIQo6IgZXwIN1FUV2+artpd++WfH+7ll8Wnx+Oum4WtXQym9 ehhsu2dfEMr5SWDtFcRce/kcxmoSiiBsWfkvyg02nV//2uvi5fK5ITvN2Lh1DRUUKd 4ExA3b7EyEsQYBk0CjBdNFUt+403FRTn9WUi3iw8= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from [192.168.0.4] (c188-150-171-71.bredband.comhem.se [188.150.171.71]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail92c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 06AH4niB021651; Fri, 10 Jul 2020 17:04:50 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.14\)) Subject: Re: bug#42296: 27.0.91; Correct manual entry for 'concat' w.r.t. allocation [PATCH] From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <83o8oopk4s.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 19:04:48 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <70B05C00-862D-412B-83DA-7129BF49C322@acm.org> References: <83wo3cppc5.fsf@gnu.org> <669987BB-B825-4C2C-B9FD-31F04E0D6013@acm.org> <83r1tkplnc.fsf@gnu.org> <83o8oopk4s.fsf@gnu.org> To: Eli Zaretskii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.14) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A782F1A.5F089FB3.0066, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-CSC: 0 X-CHA: v=2.3 cv=aY8fYigt c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=SF+I6pRkHZhrawxbOkkvaA==:117 a=SF+I6pRkHZhrawxbOkkvaA==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=M51BFTxLslgA:10 a=mDV3o1hIAAAA:8 a=HkhAIVv8MCLDVp_ToZ0A:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=_FVE-zBwftR9WsbkzFJk:22 X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: 9 juli 2020 kl. 21.24 skrev Eli Zaretskii : > This function frequently, but not always, constructs a new string > that is not @code{eq} to any existing string. Lisp programs should > not rely on the result being a new string nor on it being @co [...] Content analysis details: (1.2 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: megamailservers.eu] 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 0.3 KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS Relay HELO differs from its IP's reverse DNS X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 42296 Cc: 42296@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) 9 juli 2020 kl. 21.24 skrev Eli Zaretskii : > This function frequently, but not always, constructs a new string > that is not @code{eq} to any existing string. Lisp programs should > not rely on the result being a new string nor on it being @code{eq} > to an existing string. >=20 > When this function returns a string @code{eq] to another, changing > the result will also change that other string; to avoid that, use > @code{copy-sequence} on the result. Thank you! First a minor detail: the word 'frequently' doesn't convey = any useful information since the user isn't supposed to take any chances = -- either the returned value is always new and unaliased, or there is no = such guarantee. The frequency isn't relevant, and we shouldn't encourage = the user to act as if it were by talking about it. > To my mind, immutability (or, rather, the adverse effects of modifying > the result of 'concat') is the result of the identity. So it is > conceptually wrong to talk about mutability _instead_ of the identity. > Identity is the basic reason, immutability is the side effect. Which > is what I tried to say in the text I suggested. I understand what you mean, but do not necessarily agree in every = respect. A string may be unsuitable for modification for several = (overlapping) reasons: * It is a string literal that occurs in the program. * It is a string produced by macro-expansion. * It is a string resulting from other compile-time evaluation (eg, = constant folding). * It is a string residing in read-only storage of some kind (via = dumping). * It aliases another string in the program. * It is an actual read-only string value (which we don't really have = today, but we should not preclude its introduction in the future). Thus mutability and identity are related concepts but neither clearly = dominates the other; stating both is probably useful, for clarity if = nothing else. Saying that mutating the return value merely entails = changing some other string is understating and misleading: the = consequences are not well-defined, and may include mutating programs and = the raising of errors. (It will never reach C levels of undefined = behaviour if we can help it, however.) There is also the question whether the function can return one of its = arguments. If so, the caller not only needs to abstain from mutating the = returned value, but also the argument, even though it may be safely = created by the caller. Currently, (concat x) never returns a string = argument, unless it's a compile-time constant that cannot be mutated = anyway. It's unclear whether we can guarantee this behaviour. But let's be constructive: Taking your proposed text and performing some = light surgery, we might end up with: This function does not always allocate a new string. Callers should not rely on the result being a new string nor on it being @code{eq} to an existing string. In particular, the returned value should not be altered. To obtain a string that can be mutated, use @code{copy-sequence} on the result. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 10 14:09:05 2020 Received: (at 42296) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jul 2020 18:09:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43376 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jtxSK-0001FI-Qu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jul 2020 14:09:05 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:54728) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jtxSI-0001Em-Ao for 42296@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jul 2020 14:09:03 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:39785) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jtxSD-0003Gr-0u; Fri, 10 Jul 2020 14:08:57 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1807 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jtxSC-0007WD-HT; Fri, 10 Jul 2020 14:08:56 -0400 Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 21:08:44 +0300 Message-Id: <834kqfp7ir.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <70B05C00-862D-412B-83DA-7129BF49C322@acm.org> (message from Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= on Fri, 10 Jul 2020 19:04:48 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#42296: 27.0.91; Correct manual entry for 'concat' w.r.t. allocation [PATCH] References: <83wo3cppc5.fsf@gnu.org> <669987BB-B825-4C2C-B9FD-31F04E0D6013@acm.org> <83r1tkplnc.fsf@gnu.org> <83o8oopk4s.fsf@gnu.org> <70B05C00-862D-412B-83DA-7129BF49C322@acm.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 42296 Cc: 42296@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Mattias Engdegård > Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 19:04:48 +0200 > Cc: 42296@debbugs.gnu.org > > 9 juli 2020 kl. 21.24 skrev Eli Zaretskii : > > > This function frequently, but not always, constructs a new string > > that is not @code{eq} to any existing string. Lisp programs should > > not rely on the result being a new string nor on it being @code{eq} > > to an existing string. > > > > When this function returns a string @code{eq] to another, changing > > the result will also change that other string; to avoid that, use > > @code{copy-sequence} on the result. > > Thank you! First a minor detail: the word 'frequently' doesn't convey any useful information since the user isn't supposed to take any chances -- either the returned value is always new and unaliased, or there is no such guarantee. The frequency isn't relevant, and we shouldn't encourage the user to act as if it were by talking about it. "Frequently" describes what actually happens. Describing facts is not "encouraging" users to do anything, especially since the very next sentence tells them not to draw any far-reaching conclusions. IOW, we should treat our users as grown-up adults, not as children from whom we need to hide information. > This function does not always allocate a new string. Callers should > not rely on the result being a new string nor on it being @code{eq} > to an existing string. > > In particular, the returned value should not be altered. To obtain > a string that can be mutated, use @code{copy-sequence} on the result. Fine with me, except that "should not be altered": I object to that, unless we explain why. My proposed text included such an explanation; without it, this looks like another dogma that someone sooner or later will come up and challenge. Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 11 07:15:52 2020 Received: (at 42296) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jul 2020 11:15:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43901 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1juDU0-0004yh-AE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 07:15:52 -0400 Received: from mail1466c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.14.66]:36844 helo=mail268c50.megamailservers.eu) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1juDTx-0004yS-8b for 42296@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 07:15:50 -0400 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1594466142; bh=+alj4HL53ukdP5kgNF9YqPBtaaFuoJXnZSfDUGeu4Ag=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=N/DYStAV30/4jLiXqOND1BSe6+p2WAHv06KWQojnMU6bITbiea4kpx0HkpE/Np6UZ szHlSBUhxLmLS0pzNZwc96yXFzA0gnxubl47ZcPIgFph2TuF8PT2D2q9Igtwqbaxk6 0NPE5+Fat4zuVJjDJwwsSIp/jKhqcspVBT4IXjwQ= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from [192.168.0.4] (c188-150-171-71.bredband.comhem.se [188.150.171.71]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail268c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 06BBFenv003978; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 11:15:42 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.14\)) Subject: Re: bug#42296: 27.0.91; Correct manual entry for 'concat' w.r.t. allocation [PATCH] From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <834kqfp7ir.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 13:15:39 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <87CAAEDE-4AE2-4224-A3E3-6597E6449B1D@acm.org> References: <83wo3cppc5.fsf@gnu.org> <669987BB-B825-4C2C-B9FD-31F04E0D6013@acm.org> <83r1tkplnc.fsf@gnu.org> <83o8oopk4s.fsf@gnu.org> <70B05C00-862D-412B-83DA-7129BF49C322@acm.org> <834kqfp7ir.fsf@gnu.org> To: Eli Zaretskii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.14) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A782F24.5F099ED2.0036, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-CSC: 0 X-CHA: v=2.3 cv=BZ+mLYl2 c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=SF+I6pRkHZhrawxbOkkvaA==:117 a=SF+I6pRkHZhrawxbOkkvaA==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=M51BFTxLslgA:10 a=mDV3o1hIAAAA:8 a=7PxkP69IKYE2QcuGk4EA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=_FVE-zBwftR9WsbkzFJk:22 X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: 10 juli 2020 kl. 20.08 skrev Eli Zaretskii : > Fine with me, except that "should not be altered": I object to that, > unless we explain why. My proposed text included such an explanation; > without it, this looks like another dogma that someone [...] Content analysis details: (1.2 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.3 KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS Relay HELO differs from its IP's reverse DNS X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 42296 Cc: 42296@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) 10 juli 2020 kl. 20.08 skrev Eli Zaretskii : > Fine with me, except that "should not be altered": I object to that, > unless we explain why. My proposed text included such an explanation; > without it, this looks like another dogma that someone sooner or later > will come up and challenge. Let's try again then, elaborating the second paragraph: This function does not always allocate a new string. Callers should not rely on the result being a new string nor on it being @code{eq} to an existing string. In particular, the returned value should not be altered, because doing so may inadvertently change another string, alter a constant string in the program, or even raise an error. To obtain a string that can be mutated, use @code{copy-sequence} on the result. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 11 07:52:46 2020 Received: (at 42296) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jul 2020 11:52:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43917 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1juE3i-0007zC-4S for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 07:52:46 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:45674) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1juE3e-0007yx-WB for 42296@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 07:52:44 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:54702) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1juE3Z-0002er-GK; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 07:52:37 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3842 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1juE3Y-0008ES-Vj; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 07:52:37 -0400 Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 14:52:25 +0300 Message-Id: <83o8omnu9y.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <87CAAEDE-4AE2-4224-A3E3-6597E6449B1D@acm.org> (message from Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= on Sat, 11 Jul 2020 13:15:39 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#42296: 27.0.91; Correct manual entry for 'concat' w.r.t. allocation [PATCH] References: <83wo3cppc5.fsf@gnu.org> <669987BB-B825-4C2C-B9FD-31F04E0D6013@acm.org> <83r1tkplnc.fsf@gnu.org> <83o8oopk4s.fsf@gnu.org> <70B05C00-862D-412B-83DA-7129BF49C322@acm.org> <834kqfp7ir.fsf@gnu.org> <87CAAEDE-4AE2-4224-A3E3-6597E6449B1D@acm.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 42296 Cc: 42296@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Mattias Engdegård > Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 13:15:39 +0200 > Cc: 42296@debbugs.gnu.org > > In particular, the returned value should not be altered, because doing > so may inadvertently change another string, alter a constant string in > the program, or even raise an error. Too definitive to my palate, sorry. You may wish reading the recent long discussions of what is/should be and what isn't/shouldn't be immutable. Turns out some of us are very sensitive to "should not" being used where "we recommend you not" or "make sure you know what you are doing" is what actually is the truth. Once again, we are not talking to kindergarten kids. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 11 08:51:17 2020 Received: (at 42296) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jul 2020 12:51:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43988 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1juEyK-00035w-Fa for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 08:51:16 -0400 Received: from mail79c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.10.89]:54118 helo=mail70c50.megamailservers.eu) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1juEyE-00035k-Vm for 42296@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 08:51:15 -0400 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1594471869; bh=KtDO2OYS6XGfN+o3rUeeH+uWmX8R0uH/Uh2ucF4rSFs=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=mSPawSYucuIzTDLP6x8pzSMYWNal62bDa2yk46SXyEpB8+ZYU7eBpgTfViW3oIsDW Ykl5YKkJV/pFU2kDTFIdhvT8NIRWQ5F7T/18L51oniL5XopIC+B2MDtY5PBDe/Cj/n RgzZ71HoF0QrTyi1a7O9uML9W3bZwviX/mguC0Ak= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from [192.168.0.4] (c188-150-171-71.bredband.comhem.se [188.150.171.71]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail70c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 06BCp6vX011413; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 12:51:08 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.14\)) Subject: Re: bug#42296: 27.0.91; Correct manual entry for 'concat' w.r.t. allocation [PATCH] From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <83o8omnu9y.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 14:51:06 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1E70112B-0D00-4D94-9696-AA3DE75C9862@acm.org> References: <83wo3cppc5.fsf@gnu.org> <669987BB-B825-4C2C-B9FD-31F04E0D6013@acm.org> <83r1tkplnc.fsf@gnu.org> <83o8oopk4s.fsf@gnu.org> <70B05C00-862D-412B-83DA-7129BF49C322@acm.org> <834kqfp7ir.fsf@gnu.org> <87CAAEDE-4AE2-4224-A3E3-6597E6449B1D@acm.org> <83o8omnu9y.fsf@gnu.org> To: Eli Zaretskii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.14) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A782F1B.5F09B5BD.001A, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-CSC: 0 X-CHA: v=2.3 cv=OKBZIhSB c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=SF+I6pRkHZhrawxbOkkvaA==:117 a=SF+I6pRkHZhrawxbOkkvaA==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=M51BFTxLslgA:10 a=mDV3o1hIAAAA:8 a=aE_-FR-3YLBj5-MWlQkA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=_FVE-zBwftR9WsbkzFJk:22 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 42296 Cc: 42296@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) 11 juli 2020 kl. 13.52 skrev Eli Zaretskii : > Too definitive to my palate, sorry. Apologies -- I do my best to read your mind. > You may wish reading the recent long discussions of what is/should be > and what isn't/shouldn't be immutable. Thank you, but reading it once was quite enough. > Turns out some of us are very > sensitive to "should not" being used where "we recommend you not" or > "make sure you know what you are doing" is what actually is the truth. Very well, here is a revised proposal: This function does not always allocate a new string. Callers are advised not rely on the result being a new string nor on it being = @code{eq} to an existing string. In particular, mutating the returned value may inadvertently change = another string, alter a constant string in the program, or even raise an error. To obtain a string that can be mutated, use @code{copy-sequence} on the = result. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 11 09:07:53 2020 Received: (at 42296) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jul 2020 13:07:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44012 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1juFEP-0003Ur-7A for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 09:07:53 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:60852) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1juFEM-0003Ue-NI for 42296@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 09:07:51 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:55477) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1juFEH-00034j-7c; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 09:07:45 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4475 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1juFEE-0006zV-Pf; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 09:07:44 -0400 Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 16:07:32 +0300 Message-Id: <83k0zanqsr.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <1E70112B-0D00-4D94-9696-AA3DE75C9862@acm.org> (message from Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= on Sat, 11 Jul 2020 14:51:06 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#42296: 27.0.91; Correct manual entry for 'concat' w.r.t. allocation [PATCH] References: <83wo3cppc5.fsf@gnu.org> <669987BB-B825-4C2C-B9FD-31F04E0D6013@acm.org> <83r1tkplnc.fsf@gnu.org> <83o8oopk4s.fsf@gnu.org> <70B05C00-862D-412B-83DA-7129BF49C322@acm.org> <834kqfp7ir.fsf@gnu.org> <87CAAEDE-4AE2-4224-A3E3-6597E6449B1D@acm.org> <83o8omnu9y.fsf@gnu.org> <1E70112B-0D00-4D94-9696-AA3DE75C9862@acm.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 42296 Cc: 42296@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Mattias Engdegård > Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 14:51:06 +0200 > Cc: 42296@debbugs.gnu.org > > 11 juli 2020 kl. 13.52 skrev Eli Zaretskii : > > > Too definitive to my palate, sorry. > > Apologies -- I do my best to read your mind. I posted my proposed text so that you won't have to. > This function does not always allocate a new string. Callers are > advised not rely on the result being a new string nor on it being @code{eq} > to an existing string. > > In particular, mutating the returned value may inadvertently change another > string, alter a constant string in the program, or even raise an error. > To obtain a string that can be mutated, use @code{copy-sequence} on the result. Fine with me, with one correction: last sentence will sound better if reworded like this: To obtain a string that you can safely mutate, use @code{copy-sequence} on the result. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 11 09:16:33 2020 Received: (at 42296-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jul 2020 13:16:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44022 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1juFMn-0003hq-B7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 09:16:33 -0400 Received: from mail239c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.10.249]:53256 helo=mail56c50.megamailservers.eu) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1juFMj-0003hf-LB for 42296-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 09:16:32 -0400 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1594473387; bh=CVWcttQTSudJ37L6wbUXjV01WRvuyL6P5Fiu1CGbwLI=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=qleJZJx2QH2T4Nm7/4BuFl8Gtt5+dsNc99jkEz9QZGBb3g4dZGB63tHw7VavEDpMQ TrnQKI7eWmq4HbLECf67ob7I4R/4Vs0OViSkZ1zOBBsVAcvlrU47bNIh8qwUI84KnA U3wyAQ8dUxBGRV3Z4AX4ch5iOFXeYAkKjbxx0aWw= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from [192.168.0.4] (c188-150-171-71.bredband.comhem.se [188.150.171.71]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail56c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 06BDGPdm011515; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 13:16:26 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.14\)) Subject: Re: bug#42296: 27.0.91; Correct manual entry for 'concat' w.r.t. allocation [PATCH] From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <83k0zanqsr.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 15:16:24 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <3B676751-B932-4BD2-8418-C7207F1A52D8@acm.org> References: <83wo3cppc5.fsf@gnu.org> <669987BB-B825-4C2C-B9FD-31F04E0D6013@acm.org> <83r1tkplnc.fsf@gnu.org> <83o8oopk4s.fsf@gnu.org> <70B05C00-862D-412B-83DA-7129BF49C322@acm.org> <834kqfp7ir.fsf@gnu.org> <87CAAEDE-4AE2-4224-A3E3-6597E6449B1D@acm.org> <83o8omnu9y.fsf@gnu.org> <1E70112B-0D00-4D94-9696-AA3DE75C9862@acm.org> <83k0zanqsr.fsf@gnu.org> To: Eli Zaretskii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.14) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A782F1C.5F09BB33.0072, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-CSC: 0 X-CHA: v=2.3 cv=UqsdyN4B c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=SF+I6pRkHZhrawxbOkkvaA==:117 a=SF+I6pRkHZhrawxbOkkvaA==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=M51BFTxLslgA:10 a=mDV3o1hIAAAA:8 a=fpCF9HZSMbHwqaMq2-4A:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=ncZ9vwaUYPMA:10 a=_FVE-zBwftR9WsbkzFJk:22 X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: 11 juli 2020 kl. 15.07 skrev Eli Zaretskii : > Fine with me, with one correction: Thank you -- correction applied, and result pushed to master (by mistake) and then to emacs-27. Content analysis details: (1.2 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.3 KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS Relay HELO differs from its IP's reverse DNS X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 42296-done Cc: 42296-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) 11 juli 2020 kl. 15.07 skrev Eli Zaretskii : > Fine with me, with one correction: Thank you -- correction applied, and result pushed to master (by = mistake) and then to emacs-27. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 11 09:37:35 2020 Received: (at 42296) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jul 2020 13:37:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44038 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1juFh9-0004EB-Jk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 09:37:35 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:38242) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1juFh7-0004Dy-Ba for 42296@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 09:37:34 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:55715) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1juFh1-0006pe-Qc; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 09:37:27 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2472 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1juFh0-0004Lq-Ql; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 09:37:27 -0400 Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 16:37:17 +0300 Message-Id: <83h7uenpf6.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <3B676751-B932-4BD2-8418-C7207F1A52D8@acm.org> (message from Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= on Sat, 11 Jul 2020 15:16:24 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#42296: 27.0.91; Correct manual entry for 'concat' w.r.t. allocation [PATCH] References: <83wo3cppc5.fsf@gnu.org> <669987BB-B825-4C2C-B9FD-31F04E0D6013@acm.org> <83r1tkplnc.fsf@gnu.org> <83o8oopk4s.fsf@gnu.org> <70B05C00-862D-412B-83DA-7129BF49C322@acm.org> <834kqfp7ir.fsf@gnu.org> <87CAAEDE-4AE2-4224-A3E3-6597E6449B1D@acm.org> <83o8omnu9y.fsf@gnu.org> <1E70112B-0D00-4D94-9696-AA3DE75C9862@acm.org> <83k0zanqsr.fsf@gnu.org> <3B676751-B932-4BD2-8418-C7207F1A52D8@acm.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 42296 Cc: 42296@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Mattias Engdegård > Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 15:16:24 +0200 > Cc: 42296-done@debbugs.gnu.org > > Thank you -- correction applied, and result pushed to master (by mistake) and then to emacs-27. Thanks. Next time you have to do something like this, use "git cherry-pick -x" to bring commits from master to the release branch, since that helps merging in the opposite direction (I think the way you did it might cause merge conflicts). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 11 09:47:17 2020 Received: (at 42296) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jul 2020 13:47:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44044 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1juFqX-0004SG-G5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 09:47:17 -0400 Received: from mail1451c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.14.51]:60138 helo=mail266c50.megamailservers.eu) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1juFqU-0004S2-TD for 42296@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 09:47:15 -0400 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1594475228; bh=VBC/AmTlg0Gzl2G8xKaTlKo7FBKfed1DbZ6qM1ZsD88=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=aRQZsF2SgDp7rKbXdxRwDbqJfOT2Nw7kADRdzgympyjhaoxNzRPbO8B9eEGY+ZckL sPsXR1EM2O56lN+B3KU8t1kYk5W7rA/6JocCafxrKMfwfbMqGQqnRKeIsMfHEZMJcm jWGWsEh1PUwXbZlhK7nn7CZnlRFQ7MkU8SDffFmE= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from [192.168.0.4] (c188-150-171-71.bredband.comhem.se [188.150.171.71]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail266c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 06BDl5Dn005160; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 13:47:07 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.14\)) Subject: Re: bug#42296: 27.0.91; Correct manual entry for 'concat' w.r.t. allocation [PATCH] From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <83h7uenpf6.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 15:47:05 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: References: <83wo3cppc5.fsf@gnu.org> <669987BB-B825-4C2C-B9FD-31F04E0D6013@acm.org> <83r1tkplnc.fsf@gnu.org> <83o8oopk4s.fsf@gnu.org> <70B05C00-862D-412B-83DA-7129BF49C322@acm.org> <834kqfp7ir.fsf@gnu.org> <87CAAEDE-4AE2-4224-A3E3-6597E6449B1D@acm.org> <83o8omnu9y.fsf@gnu.org> <1E70112B-0D00-4D94-9696-AA3DE75C9862@acm.org> <83k0zanqsr.fsf@gnu.org> <3B676751-B932-4BD2-8418-C7207F1A52D8@acm.org> <83h7uenpf6.fsf@gnu.org> To: Eli Zaretskii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.14) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A782F17.5F09C2DC.0021, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-CSC: 0 X-CHA: v=2.3 cv=A5MSwJeG c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=SF+I6pRkHZhrawxbOkkvaA==:117 a=SF+I6pRkHZhrawxbOkkvaA==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=M51BFTxLslgA:10 a=mDV3o1hIAAAA:8 a=r9zwD_J3KQMlny5wcqoA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=_FVE-zBwftR9WsbkzFJk:22 X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: 11 juli 2020 kl. 15.37 skrev Eli Zaretskii : > Next time you have to do something like this, use "git cherry-pick -x" > to bring commits from master to the release branch, since that helps > merging in the opposite direction (I think the way you [...] Content analysis details: (1.2 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.3 KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS Relay HELO differs from its IP's reverse DNS X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 42296 Cc: 42296@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) 11 juli 2020 kl. 15.37 skrev Eli Zaretskii : > Next time you have to do something like this, use "git cherry-pick -x" > to bring commits from master to the release branch, since that helps > merging in the opposite direction (I think the way you did it might > cause merge conflicts). Understood. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 11 12:17:45 2020 Received: (at 42296) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jul 2020 16:17:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44835 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1juIC8-0008Mk-Sl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 12:17:45 -0400 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:53894) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1juIC6-0008MW-33 for 42296@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 12:17:43 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 06BGGkbq147219; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 16:17:34 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=u/Ny+RgASCQm/T3XsFMMl+aVBqYlozM2hEfr9ohtDAo=; b=QRcaL3gM8yTViTghEMpiaK8n9rlRH/mkyHaCwSnW6l9G7HFIpuUmOXCI4/sQKemmTGoF Q77zzjUrRNFDxwtlMJZtgVeNwLSTSwAGRdaeQKEPyU8xO/WsasDg0Q6bjX0/nK/f5mTA 9G2nVxeGMQ6y6/eVxJkVL9165dlDquVMwzhGeJBeKK0XRezhxheYi4T8BFWWaX7zQwBw QbuzLvHOZE0AlaLKuAV59NvhP5Lkz4UhBnn0LIBk2Ic2lfjRwvl93UBRjFE5Df1gJf46 BxJsCHiAE4b0VKxF8Z6ukgjGenWSLKGsZvqedBfLOBupmgxbEt1KdH6IBrI3F4zbvxt1 pg== Received: from aserp3020.oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [141.146.126.70]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 3275cksp2k-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Jul 2020 16:17:34 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 06BGDOmX081041; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 16:17:34 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 327581jnqd-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Jul 2020 16:17:34 +0000 Received: from abhmp0012.oracle.com (abhmp0012.oracle.com [141.146.116.18]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 06BGHVlC021770; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 16:17:31 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <01440768-3233-4406-831f-f7143471b600@default> Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 09:17:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , =?utf-8?B?TWF0dGlhcyBFbmdkZWfDpXJk?= Subject: RE: bug#42296: 27.0.91; Correct manual entry for 'concat' w.r.t. allocation [PATCH] References: <83wo3cppc5.fsf@gnu.org> <669987BB-B825-4C2C-B9FD-31F04E0D6013@acm.org> <83r1tkplnc.fsf@gnu.org> <83o8oopk4s.fsf@gnu.org> <70B05C00-862D-412B-83DA-7129BF49C322@acm.org> <834kqfp7ir.fsf@gnu.org> <87CAAEDE-4AE2-4224-A3E3-6597E6449B1D@acm.org> <83o8omnu9y.fsf@gnu.org> <1E70112B-0D00-4D94-9696-AA3DE75C9862@acm.org> <83k0zanqsr.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83k0zanqsr.fsf@gnu.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5017.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9679 signatures=668680 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2006250000 definitions=main-2007110126 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9679 signatures=668680 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 priorityscore=1501 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 impostorscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxlogscore=999 clxscore=1011 mlxscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2006250000 definitions=main-2007110126 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 42296 Cc: 42296@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > This function does not always allocate a new string. Callers are > > advised not rely on the result being a new string nor on it being > @code{eq} > > to an existing string. > > > > In particular, mutating the returned value may inadvertently change > another > > string, alter a constant string in the program, or even raise an > error. > > To obtain a string that can be mutated, use @code{copy-sequence} on > the result. >=20 > Fine with me, with one correction: last sentence will sound better if > reworded like this: >=20 > To obtain a string that you can safely mutate, use > @code{copy-sequence} on the result. FTR, I think that the doc of `concat' should really make clear that it (now, and apparently for a while now) has this odd (yes) behavior of not guaranteeing a new string. Not sure why we made this change, but I imagine it was in a zeal to optimize. At a minimum, please make this very clear, and say explicitly that to ensure that you get a new string you can use `copy-sequence' (as you've mentioned), and that you can alternatively use `seq-concatenate': (seq-concatenate 'string &rest SEQUENCES) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 11 23:03:43 2020 Received: (at 42296) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jul 2020 03:03:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45257 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1juSHH-0002qS-Eg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 23:03:43 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:33470) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1juSHC-0002qD-WC for 42296@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 23:03:42 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:35415) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1juSH7-0006Fh-Hx; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 23:03:33 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1juSH5-0003Xc-Le; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 23:03:31 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <83k0zanqsr.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Sat, 11 Jul 2020 16:07:32 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#42296: 27.0.91; Correct manual entry for 'concat' w.r.t. allocation [PATCH] References: <83wo3cppc5.fsf@gnu.org> <669987BB-B825-4C2C-B9FD-31F04E0D6013@acm.org> <83r1tkplnc.fsf@gnu.org> <83o8oopk4s.fsf@gnu.org> <70B05C00-862D-412B-83DA-7129BF49C322@acm.org> <834kqfp7ir.fsf@gnu.org> <87CAAEDE-4AE2-4224-A3E3-6597E6449B1D@acm.org> <83o8omnu9y.fsf@gnu.org> <1E70112B-0D00-4D94-9696-AA3DE75C9862@acm.org> <83k0zanqsr.fsf@gnu.org> Message-Id: Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 23:03:31 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 42296 Cc: mattiase@acm.org, 42296@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > To obtain a string that can be mutated, use @code{copy-sequence} on the result. > Fine with me, with one correction: last sentence will sound better if > reworded like this: > To obtain a string that you can safely mutate, use > @code{copy-sequence} on the result. Yes, it is almost always better to switch to active voice and state the subject. -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Tue Jun 17 01:37:42 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2020 11:24:07 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator