From unknown Thu Sep 11 12:41:53 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41904: Emacs Lisp Resent-From: Andrew Goh Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 04:17:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 41904 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 41904@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: "bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.159236739725077 (code B ref -1); Wed, 17 Jun 2020 04:17:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Jun 2020 04:16:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50116 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jlPV5-0006WO-L8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 00:16:36 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:45030) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jlOmh-0005R0-HQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 23:30:46 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53712) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jlOmh-0003Qi-1l for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; 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Wed, 17 Jun 2020 03:30:32 +0000 Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 03:30:29 +0000 (UTC) From: Andrew Goh Message-ID: <1687592701.1561823.1592364629846@mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1561822_337784701.1592364629844" References: <1687592701.1561823.1592364629846.ref@mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.16119 YMailNorrin Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/83.0.4103.97 Safari/537.36 Edg/83.0.478.45 Content-Length: 2563 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=106.10.241.141; envelope-from=andrewgoh95@yahoo.com.sg; helo=sonic306-21.consmr.mail.sg3.yahoo.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/06/16 23:30:32 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.1-3.10 [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: 1 X-Spam_score: 0.1 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_40=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 00:16:34 -0400 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) ------=_Part_1561822_337784701.1592364629844 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi GNU Team, I gather that Emacs Lisp is closest to the original Lisp language.=C2=A0 Wh= ile the other dialects are different, such as Common Lisp, Racket, Scheme, = and Clojure.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Wonder if there is more documentation available than just this guide which = I downloaded as a PDF resource: "An Introduction to Programming in Emacs Li= sp 3rd Edition".=C2=A0=C2=A0 Secondly, I will probably have to learn Clojure too if Emacs Lisp is not "e= nhanced" to become a full Lisp language that can generate programs with con= currency features on all its platforms - Unix, Linux, MacOS and Windows. Well, that will be it. Regards, Andrew Goh S M ------=_Part_1561822_337784701.1592364629844 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi GNU Team,

I gather that Emacs Lisp is closest to the original Lisp language.&= nbsp; While the other dialects are different, such as Common Lisp, Racket, = Scheme, and Clojure.  

Wonder if there is more = documentation available than just this guide which I downloaded as a PDF re= source: "An Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp 3rd Edition". &n= bsp;

Secondly, I will probably have to learn Clojure too = if Emacs Lisp is not "enhanced" to become a full Lisp language that can gen= erate programs with concurrency features on all its platforms - Unix, Linux= , MacOS and Windows.

=
Well, that will be it.

Regards,

Andrew Goh S M

------=_Part_1561822_337784701.1592364629844-- From unknown Thu Sep 11 12:41:53 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41904: Emacs Lisp Resent-From: Arthur Miller Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 06:32:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41904 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 41904@debbugs.gnu.org Cc: andrewgoh95@yahoo.com.sg X-Debbugs-Original-To: Andrew Goh via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" X-Debbugs-Original-Cc: Andrew Goh , 41904@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.15923755176054 (code B ref -1); Wed, 17 Jun 2020 06:32:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Jun 2020 06:31:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50232 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jlRc1-0001ZV-00 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 02:31:57 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:60950) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jlRbt-0001Z7-W2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; 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Wed, 17 Jun 2020 06:31:39 +0000 Received: from VI1PR06MB4526.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7e1e::47) by VE1EUR02FT014.mail.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7e1e::148) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3109.22 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 06:31:39 +0000 X-IncomingTopHeaderMarker: OriginalChecksum:9B13B404B509D342FFDE3E93A855E05893D428CEA50EF3AC09687DC249B7B1DE; UpperCasedChecksum:5A8C58117F8FBFC734FD1F94129E93AEC5E15C70CE262DCF2E9DCE2442DFBDEC; SizeAsReceived:7645; Count:47 Received: from VI1PR06MB4526.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::485f:2120:63bb:92c]) by VI1PR06MB4526.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::485f:2120:63bb:92c%7]) with mapi id 15.20.3088.028; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 06:31:39 +0000 From: Arthur Miller References: <1687592701.1561823.1592364629846.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1687592701.1561823.1592364629846@mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 08:31:37 +0200 In-Reply-To: <1687592701.1561823.1592364629846@mail.yahoo.com> (Andrew Goh via's message of "Wed, 17 Jun 2020 03:30:29 +0000 (UTC)") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Content-Type: text/plain X-ClientProxiedBy: AM7PR04CA0030.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:110::40) To VI1PR06MB4526.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:803:ac::17) X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <87lfkm4306.fsf@live.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Received: from pascal.homepc (90.230.29.56) by AM7PR04CA0030.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:110::40) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3109.22 via Frontend Transport; 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envelope-from=arthur.miller@live.com; helo=EUR02-AM5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/06/17 02:31:40 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Windows NT kernel [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -37 X-Spam_score: -3.8 X-Spam_bar: --- X-Spam_report: (-3.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) Andrew Goh via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" writes: > Hi GNU Team, > > I gather that Emacs Lisp is closest to the original Lisp language. While the other dialects are different, such as Common Lisp, Racket, Scheme, and Clojure. > > Wonder if there is more documentation available than just this guide which I downloaded as a PDF resource: "An Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp 3rd Edition". > > > Secondly, I will probably have to learn Clojure too if Emacs Lisp is not "enhanced" to become a full Lisp language that can generate programs with concurrency features > on all its platforms - Unix, Linux, MacOS and Windows. > > Well, that will be it. > > Regards, > > Andrew Goh S M The guide you downloaded is probably the best one, but there are numerous blogs and smaller guides/articles etc, for example: http://www.mitchellsoftwareengineering.com/ProgrammingWithGNUEmacsLisp.pdf https://cdn.preterhuman.net/texts/computing/programming/LISP/Writing%20GNU%20Emacs%20Extensions%20-%20Bob%20Glickstein.pdf https://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6771 Just do a web search. Emacs Reddit is good place to ask questions too. What is a "full" Lisp language? First you say Emacs Lisp is closest to "original" Lisp (whatever it is) and then you find Common Lisp, Clojure, Scheme etc to be "different". If Emacs becomes "full Lisp" according to your definition whatever it is, would it also become "different" as CL, Clojure etc? Why do you want to learn Emacs Lisp? If you are into writing Emacs applications then Elisp is your best friend. If you want to use Lisp as a general programming language to write your programms in, then you should probably learn Common Lisp and use some good compiler like SBCL. Just my personal opinion ... From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jun 18 13:23:40 2020 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Jun 2020 17:23:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54264 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jlyGK-0003Wn-Fw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 Jun 2020 13:23:40 -0400 Received: from mail-qt1-f177.google.com ([209.85.160.177]:46709) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jlyGH-0003WX-HE; Thu, 18 Jun 2020 13:23:39 -0400 Received: by mail-qt1-f177.google.com with SMTP id g18so5021171qtu.13; Thu, 18 Jun 2020 10:23:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=tIxpD47jNceReKo9rwD91AZtrFH8fipVABfZIOLTvBY=; b=VNIuRNhvXP2E7dNhyZ/DmptfVgXbDdO0y7EM8hZ5ZOzFiebZlWJYYSmnxI3UBsDlcs S6OS8ly4wbKy6tva4xs9dT10K5tDPKzj7E6r/yUmNvrNa448Tx0e3v27Cc4tvJ14+KVq 7AaaXprQ8FFnPICYimekP3Lv4WEPLNe6IiaBCa8Ufbb7Z8+S9ZNsbmg9g+00VeFkOOHn 8/VsMovV3uufKv91m2nE1YsgCBGb5U+UG8HK6AErmWHZ3Fb/rr1axUkODkIQIZGn3SAa rJsfGKp0Vc+C72epYFmVbIwyAvJNyzVexMyoY+lagGOIdSB1J1dWAVwHuNxyWuUsPuuL pYdg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=tIxpD47jNceReKo9rwD91AZtrFH8fipVABfZIOLTvBY=; b=hTrX4QuuVI3V4Qx6oEXRXiu7RdO3ZGxlrlQFi1fJXqgA4EYBy/RdCSePqzUc2/Jf5p fBHlvX9xV9aEGi841rB89EnoCIKtV6wvdvkFq7V0F+4Ur3yyvSk8MNfwg7ZWeVoZSn+u KXeWhilVlHwdwAcWd5i1FSL/ZDtvlfnKowi/Q/0FM5RoUsai+KJleAsfX32Rsoxp/6a5 vOZ2qtLv8/QGh8l6FjjbcSsVQwAHfe4yagRKcKfdfSYKlPYX8YJaA7euU6TqoDpYP9eG wnlzFK5PHZKKe2FGYqhCm1XN5hzn6kJzf+QWZYJAwOIywJgFHk050ewy3UizIKteXEgy 1Luw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5312MFvi5Rr/yzfG7/cRt4K1hX4MOHweXLwiq6gL2IoAL+6ITb9Y QglWasra4+7EXL8WT2WE+zMUOe4q X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxJaMY0D/MfzfcWFznO0syb691z01urK6CpIWYS2tBCBCiT2N0yqyfAIB8/jQO8ekqb41k0WA== X-Received: by 2002:aed:2789:: with SMTP id a9mr5593134qtd.76.1592501010819; Thu, 18 Jun 2020 10:23:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vhost2 (CPE001143542e1f-CMf81d0f809fa0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com. [99.230.38.42]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 126sm3709667qkj.89.2020.06.18.10.23.29 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Thu, 18 Jun 2020 10:23:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Noam Postavsky To: Andrew Goh Subject: Re: bug#41909: Enhanced Emacs into a full applications development system (WAS: Emacs Lisp) References: <1406388918.1593334.1592368687670.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1406388918.1593334.1592368687670@mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2020 13:23:28 -0400 In-Reply-To: <1406388918.1593334.1592368687670@mail.yahoo.com> (Andrew Goh's message of "Wed, 17 Jun 2020 04:38:07 +0000 (UTC)") Message-ID: <85wo44ffu7.fsf_-_@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.3 (windows-nt) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control Cc: 41909@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) merge 41909 41904 retitle 41909 Enhanced Emacs into a full applications development system severity 41909 wishlist tags 41909 wontfix close 41909 quit Andrew Goh writes: > Basically I am asking for GNU Emacs to be enhanced into a full > applications development system, for implementation on all platforms - > Unix, Linux, MacOS and Windows. I think we have enough trouble making Emacs into a text editor for all platforms. Let's not set the feature creep to infinity all at once. From unknown Thu Sep 11 12:41:53 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41904: Emacs Lisp Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 02:52:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41904 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix To: Andrew Goh Cc: 41904@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 41904-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41904.159460868615306 (code B ref 41904); Mon, 13 Jul 2020 02:52:01 +0000 Received: (at 41904) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jul 2020 02:51:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47275 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1juoYv-0003yo-Lc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Jul 2020 22:51:25 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:55810) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1juoYs-0003ya-QE for 41904@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Jul 2020 22:51:23 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:53324) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1juoYn-0005cJ-6s; Sun, 12 Jul 2020 22:51:17 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1juoYl-0003Oq-IC; Sun, 12 Jul 2020 22:51:15 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: <1687592701.1561823.1592364629846@mail.yahoo.com> (bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org) References: <1687592701.1561823.1592364629846.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1687592701.1561823.1592364629846@mail.yahoo.com> Message-Id: Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 22:51:15 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] Clojure is not a dialect of Lisp. It has fundamental differences -- for instance, it does not represent lists using cons cells. That means the most basic programming techniques of Lisp don't work in Clojure. If Clojure is useful for you, there is nothing wrong with using it -- its implementation is free software, ISTR -- but please don't think of it as Lisp. > Secondly, I will probably have to learn Clojure too if Emacs Lisp > is not "enhanced" to become a full Lisp language that can generate > programs with concurrency features on all its platforms - Unix, > Linux, MacOS and Windows. Unix, MacOS and Windows are complete operating systems. Linux is not a complete operating system, it is a kernel. So I think you must be talking about the GNU operating system with Linux as kernel. Many people call that system "Linux", but that is a confusion. It misattributes our work to someone else, which is treating us badly. Would you please call it "GNU/Linux" to give the GNU Project equal mention? See https://gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html and https://gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html, plus the history in https://gnu.org/gnu/the-gnu-project.html. -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)