Subject: Re: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support

From: Thomas Fitzsimmons <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 12:16:16 -0400

Hi Stefan,

Stefan Kangas <[email-masked]> writes:

> Richard Stallman <[email-masked]> writes:
>
>> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
>> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
>> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
>>
>> This is alarming news.  If these reports are correct, they mean that
>> Google will entirely cut off access to Gmail from the Free World.
>>
>> Can you find a web page that describes the danger in a clear way,
>> with references to substantiate the warning?  That is the first thing
>> we need in order to campaign to convince Google not to do it.
>
> Here are two relevant announcements, I think:
>
> Turning off less secure app access to G Suite accounts
> https://gsuiteupdates.googleblog.com/2019/12/less-secure-apps-oauth-google-username-password-incorrect.html
> 
> Less secure app turn-off suspended until further notice
> https://gsuiteupdates.googleblog.com/2020/03/less-secure-app-turn-off-suspended.html
>
> [...]

Yes, those are the relevant announcements, thanks.

Quoting from the first announcement:

"If you are using Thunderbird or another email client, re-add your
Google Account and configure it to use IMAP with OAuth."

It seems like Google is acknowledging Thunderbird as a valid option
post-"less-secure-app" turn-off there.

Richard, I think Lars's and David's summary of Thunderbird's situation
highlights the non-technical issues blocking GNU Emacs from supporting
OAuth 2.0 access to the G Suite IMAP service.  I'm wondering if the FSF
could help with those issues.

> So I guess this means that in the mid-term, people should seriously
> consider leaving Google.

Agreed, and I am [1], but maybe a better outcome could be reached.  It
sounds like from Thunderbird's situation, changes to Google's developer
terms of service, giving some consideration to Free Software projects
using these APIs, could solve the problem.

It might take non-technical discussions between the FSF and Google, but
that's one of the FSF's functions, AIUI.  Maybe the result could be a
model for how to handle other similar situations, since Emacs needing
"API keys" to access network services is not unique to G Suite or
Google.

Thomas

1. I'm tempted to try Lars's self-hosted email script. ;-)