From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: Thomas Fitzsimmons Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 02:06:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 41386@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.158985391231180 (code B ref -1); Tue, 19 May 2020 02:06:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 May 2020 02:05:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48708 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jard2-00086q-4W for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 18 May 2020 22:05:12 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:40778) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jard0-00086i-JO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 18 May 2020 22:05:11 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42536) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jard0-0002n6-Ez for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 18 May 2020 22:05:10 -0400 Received: from mail-qv1-xf30.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::f30]:45894) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jarcz-0006p7-9i for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 18 May 2020 22:05:10 -0400 Received: by mail-qv1-xf30.google.com with SMTP id z9so5766879qvi.12 for ; Mon, 18 May 2020 19:05:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fitzsim-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=m9IMKMhZhUEQhPolgWdPe3Xhg50QYz68cYbC8B03fYQ=; b=A6v7CNgPQ0X/f5uC71m6G6FhVEbwFyHcz/y8tTP43Scydq161ewjAHwnQA8U5/XY39 HaZnzywyX9Ag4cl5grZKnuDNJ+HlypJfy0LmvDccB9RtThzIwJvulnnK89QZL63i/C+l yqyG/d5LPH3q7fVYZra+scWX5ZoMzdQAJSXM/bAMAzXiFE2gmD9oC/ILstUurQv8Jo3g g7dIrGVZZbIk8fXRz+WJk0iifGyGVMeV4eX4++MADphA0HXlrt3IPleftthDVpjDp5Ym CCYfEYKNA6o6bLFwhjFY1zkq2kyfdVyslbDdJRululw9/9JXKNrZ3AjU4H05jhZuncnz BNIw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=m9IMKMhZhUEQhPolgWdPe3Xhg50QYz68cYbC8B03fYQ=; b=KC54sSRhZ7sUCGVFzZ8+CTPLzuSxKsqmkYtLUQ3nLn+Fit0pCA5CWXJwSYQB037gVq G+8ZgQdTUxAaV0GbtT5RrN++GVOLEdWrrYs8HuiCrUIUJk0Pwv2gSzjYFhht8B+KK8/K Eh/5Lkf9gzIv/GrTamYHowNWDwcW5GJ1Bcwc+c6b6XGV5HWx8gAnfoFAXVBbPkbpTvXZ L2mJ3G3UAF8d3s9YxNH9VtMSmWvRjUwrT0kfx6KAj4w5B+kNtqeVQI08aHVvb0o9PJUF YLumrqFVaXg3xsoPZflWfIc7cuLu2ERkEMj18pRh0z3NN3DQiL262WqwQaefjC7LfVrU CN9w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530TnBC6Kv+46z/df982S7A8gkOC2saWwgYj8shQQQTQ2GzSYRSd C38mijUtvyo7uLLONM/XcZVJSLI5sjJtMg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxZ0P2nh8/lyFx7LBCbstK3LoSf2nlHGyUKU6gFEBI7Bw+6EZz8NRUCOw/ZAyaVShzEOCyCXw== X-Received: by 2002:a0c:fb4b:: with SMTP id b11mr12417739qvq.96.1589853907058; Mon, 18 May 2020 19:05:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (69-165-165-189.dsl.teksavvy.com. [69.165.165.189]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e34sm2467879qtb.21.2020.05.18.19.05.05 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 18 May 2020 19:05:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Thomas Fitzsimmons Date: Mon, 18 May 2020 22:05:04 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: none client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::f30; envelope-from=fitzsim@fitzsim.org; helo=mail-qv1-xf30.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hi, Some email services seem to be moving toward requiring MUAs to support OAuth 2.0, one reason being that they would like MUAs to do two factor authentication. It would be nice to have this capability in Gnus's nnimap. The Gnus manual makes no mention of OAuth 2.0, I can't find any suggested configurations online, and there's nothing mentioned in debbugs about this. Is support for OAuth 2.0 -- perhaps via oauth2.el available in GNU ELPA -- something that Gnus could eventually implement? If so, I guess this bug report could be where the idea is discussed. Thanks, Thomas From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 19 05:47:05 2020 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 May 2020 09:47:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49230 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jayq0-0007P4-VB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 May 2020 05:47:05 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.21]:44595) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jaypy-0007OX-Kq for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 May 2020 05:47:03 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1589881616; bh=hgBTKjopb+NbJIecExBoiRDuocDpcu68hZSNNZZfMu0=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:To:From:Subject; b=Kx6/eTrAhMKuhH1ec6zz/OtWeCy8keALkZbhit5IioW/NowfkGlL+adUcTIqLwqU7 3/C+T7Ygo+f6gOAMlwVuktaRG9biuVzeqBgKoJJbIOXrZdMP+E8y0aTbadhIWkThip 5nYkeHh6xFjaleTKJTnNw5ETWK8mlgz9f66wZjo4= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from gandalf.gmx.de ([212.86.41.201]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1Mf0BG-1j7hYg19hK-00gZG1 for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 11:46:56 +0200 Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 11:46:55 +0200 Message-Id: <87eergfe9c.fsf@gmx.de> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Michael Albinus Subject: control message for bug #41386 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:uJTtqEd+4Xog6Sah/6cGcRXSOeg24BjNi1SJV9ZDsfVBbZb2l13 EFLFD+GUXBbU6nBZJtDNtKa85M2H9VBSk1kqbWyupcWSfcg/PVRAaac1Y0vqgW2GLvjgRNK 6SjN/2Ihe7EMcV7znllW1z2vRDD7DwTKs7PJm4vu/V0tbypCyj3M0XL788GOrdrNFZlCvds 92+4ddAoxgywAFrj4l0dg== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:nrGcYB/eMEI=:iBLO64yFMO7NRMl8Az/iWA MitTihryvAAKz9E2SC/IHqM6cCYIRybWZSxCCdcHaHGlmmfG9KWRTO7QECgZkU24RdrYoOgpH 2LSrAKCKlCxnE7L7ewkb+5GBoNMsZmjhlsF23o6k7VLLvH5WNJNHioWf/cuAC6u0f0Nvp+B5H H4ZklJ/lUm2U5BYBifhdGOxKL4qJ7sq81JO9Zdgfxy9ct9o/hYZ1LvAAE8iuSK/B8zcbwzI2/ R4KK4P51r6rYbJr0tpmTIzldwgegXMr6asJXMpe9MwnzQdXVeyyZRbZqDnrbRMwk7K2m3IQQT pJniBo/PcLJO3jwnIoVJEK62A/nM4qsBEdN583KRxKuTR7wbnKA12jeWPV+TLRD5Atb2eBiZS PT5qOCQgOuIXi0WkqnzbkgSBmOQ110ETnUOKYvhq9tzk/3kDOAo5tl0lL+YaP55NX/qdDvooc hOcj5iq4b8+NS6W5OgqWCvdC2ApBnIweaM3rW+SVLjtWh9CFvoJAU5f0QOVOKRIsaS0+fhtWw SERk/WdqHdBAh34lcAPpVfgSKUisMiNdWwV8cwDaMXkaLTgcVUOK/PiDJyaDmNuEeyZWngjIc Vnu2J7pFvI8aeTX9DYYmjdbu9rE/nQ111UXd2Esh29PfNDFZw5cPHjmbPc+qCdrCKPn/RetOD +35uJT/NfQAimZQDOvQai+mWCeLHQwzkm+4L1xhaO8EJ92WVVuXdAuRM0rjKqHtqzCBPoCLcS iHc0yOICJxauhXE7SCuJmRQVcV7ryDGqXpaCg+55veL8xIQXTR4BEX8tXAPQU4GM6kGGkbnVk dSKmXmtdx0hsi0rZHr9U5ddni3r4dHsphMGWVdB+losENAnnVf4RCZX4Mej8I0Hx0w4R63T5a AS0a6WOCenQL2aK3wP2iqnhqW1WGZVMvV5+Rd0T4Re6IPVFPV9Yj5jgspIEvBo6TXb3FdLY+J EgOmb3jwhicTVvANyziCSnGeHiBL1Ok1XBrPDESsRGRWhPa+yG3awobuFotZ1Yr6JpwcvYVk7 eo72+o0G50yAXS+rCKSP+kl72wNnKJAUjbCBffLXKJ35+D/lrhA1DUshZCxbQcqaFRZM8nphE dqQ2LDINPdtShn9HZPfnU07+bgSkHp5NEe+4kMtRMwZ6VEt/ZZqZ2Y+nS/KQ5k5hhvWEBo3+t 6K+ZKNu0lr2ARtFd+EbEHIpciN05Yfz3LZhDWEI/E8+0TFClJTIWMZsbJhQRe2Tm/RGH71rHI 9m1olfVL973ngfrF4 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) severity 41386 wishlist quit From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 12:47:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Thomas Fitzsimmons Cc: 41386@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.158989240830622 (code B ref 41386); Tue, 19 May 2020 12:47:01 +0000 Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 May 2020 12:46:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49533 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jb1dw-0007xq-Hk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 May 2020 08:46:48 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:54374) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jb1du-0007xc-9h for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 May 2020 08:46:46 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=7u8/Mf42qxnCMP//XW+Ojn4/z6zx2xC+bfcOly2vt24=; b=mKHbaWirTXTFpuH93l1HhDuBBx kwqzANl6PViSyajokajSACOM2lX0YzyZHU8nMX+I5XCYl64Vdw59yRkgjU7fpgvnaMpGz+E/4Ud8u rIrtwA2V0FXan/ktNVbcAkHLxKhOzD3+sHn1zPTgiXmZK6YEc+5+17oDBGffb+AV5N+M=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=marnie) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jb1dj-0000do-9j; Tue, 19 May 2020 14:46:39 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 14:46:34 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Thomas Fitzsimmons's message of "Mon, 18 May 2020 22:05:04 -0400") Message-ID: <87y2poqehh.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Thomas Fitzsimmons writes: > Is support for OAuth 2.0 -- perhaps via oauth2.el available in GNU ELPA > -- something that Gnus could eventually implement? If so, I guess this > bug report could be where the idea is discussed. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Thomas Fitzsimmons writes: > Is support for OAuth 2.0 -- perhaps via oauth2.el available in GNU ELPA > -- something that Gnus could eventually implement? If so, I guess this > bug report could be where the idea is discussed. I don't think there's any way to ship Emacs with built-in oauth2 support for doing auth with Gmail -- it requires distributions with API secrets and stuff, and there's no secrets in the Emacs distribution. Or is there a way to do that now? I haven't been paying attention the last few months. I remember Thunderbird including some credentials in the source code and saying, jokily, "remember, these are secret". Somebody would have to register the Emacs "app" with Google, and for Emacs, that would have to be the FSF, right? And I don't see that happening ever, ideologically. But somebody could definitely write a package and put that on MELPA, and do the registration, I think? (With the same joke, of course.) -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: Noam Postavsky Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 12:59:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Cc: Thomas Fitzsimmons , 41386@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.158989310731700 (code B ref 41386); Tue, 19 May 2020 12:59:01 +0000 Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 May 2020 12:58:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49541 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jb1pC-0008FE-S1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 May 2020 08:58:27 -0400 Received: from mail-ot1-f47.google.com ([209.85.210.47]:36416) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jb1pB-0008F1-F8 for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 May 2020 08:58:26 -0400 Received: by mail-ot1-f47.google.com with SMTP id h7so4004112otr.3 for <41386@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 19 May 2020 05:58:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=r9hgFjsutxzU5Uep0SfipEvlvnpO/VfZCm+TC16W/fM=; b=DIST+a5Yk2JH+iCvkIRS9q9ZpjQ72QkxYQRPNuLuflVuBw+VVONZW7Slv29KlrcMS+ dEENqvMAxIYC/97u/FbvwF+TMSqjK8zjE4ixu5U03tLxbEmH50pUI6bMWvC5bDl/TjIo aW8K1xuoMTFuabb1MdFMgMqIlVGwu1BGWthAraSP4AwejEGWRKNW2YCFdl0av37fmoCL uC9ZGHQE5pTdscmdIUQQjkfgdE3Z6sRBPvGC7ofmwwupIg8dgLZfH4Zk509wqyjA1Ndw PsTTwdVYVAxRhG1ERxsGr4T8kdFExgz3RlS8J6XwVXR2SwNUs8I2GzCGUACDXaIdnX6R 0/1g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=r9hgFjsutxzU5Uep0SfipEvlvnpO/VfZCm+TC16W/fM=; b=uMcl2zVONeg9X483S0Sbr0b22BnEN8laQjSmmkAbhJ/0rjLSfZXm/Y8TLUi2YyHc9Q I9pU9uEsuuiF/FRaPgJZSMT3mdpf/9EwuOWIGfT4CwUZlhdmRAPzyjvYRY0mifryGtUT Iek7nS7H4/UXbqcwIFXEi+9cs4Esvk7f3eod9EOyg5aDDEU2ujNVjvEVQBfSEWlREg9u BaNFU0TZyS6FHQ9nd4I9TItIf6q8ybeCERJzDVIkPLrgnlAbsvh5ihuDehQzz8LbPrag wTzXYwUX2SQ74BqsZ6VuOj/rvZ+KPg/x4uV/XKl+TsHMWDH032jz9Uzfjse3vLhrGAmo Valg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530UxnHYPnZbWDgjnSCTEXnxM9sk6VJil+/MVbTJcXW85u5PCS9G 077bEolz5dhzNKOVL9HLauaVdK3EX+ULCKjsXyk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzIfmG3oAJSoXchXTBgFjmYgrCAmbp2dDmLMQj7oLtTHLycps3UtgCWlROmjII+7rSEy9w0FZBYBR04dcSyQbU= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:1df3:: with SMTP id b19mr6428925otj.368.1589893097861; Tue, 19 May 2020 05:58:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87y2poqehh.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: <87y2poqehh.fsf@gnus.org> From: Noam Postavsky Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 08:58:01 -0400 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Tue, 19 May 2020 at 08:47, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > > Is support for OAuth 2.0 -- perhaps via oauth2.el available in GNU ELPA > > -- something that Gnus could eventually implement? If so, I guess this > > bug report could be where the idea is discussed. > > I don't think there's any way to ship Emacs with built-in oauth2 support > for doing auth with Gmail -- it requires distributions with API secrets There is something called xoauth2, is that related? Someone posted a package for it, but the docs are a bit thin... https://github.com/ccrusius/auth-source-xoauth2 From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 13:13:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Noam Postavsky Cc: Thomas Fitzsimmons , 41386@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.1589893938730 (code B ref 41386); Tue, 19 May 2020 13:13:01 +0000 Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 May 2020 13:12:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49582 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jb22b-0000Bh-FB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 May 2020 09:12:18 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:54652) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jb22Z-0000BS-HO for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 May 2020 09:12:15 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=VsOZPzFdJMwq3kbVgNao64hgzv7RVyVbTw8ZXKlPN3s=; b=QVwYWKqNdt+gc4AcW7LCcru2wL 1hVxldgUpRRYdS/cWuMFAgwjSuZTyCXWALdgPAZoMo3cMaO3W3xmjlpgYuiKf3EdfslOxPivFJ+ih Qnjnl1Io1FCpL5O8LsbzBnwmURErOZgAjn22Al+riA+a4RAXv9QN8B53sGF++SsbQ1Mc=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=marnie) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jb22Q-0000sY-62; Tue, 19 May 2020 15:12:08 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <87y2poqehh.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 15:12:05 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Noam Postavsky's message of "Tue, 19 May 2020 08:58:01 -0400") Message-ID: <87pnb0qday.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Noam Postavsky writes: > There is something called xoauth2, is that related? Someone posted a > package for it, but the docs are a bit thin... > > https://github.com/ccrusius/auth-source-xoauth2 Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Noam Postavsky writes: > There is something called xoauth2, is that related? Someone posted a > package for it, but the docs are a bit thin... > > https://github.com/ccrusius/auth-source-xoauth2 Below are the instructions for end-user usage. I think you can sum that up as "er, no". :-/ 1. Go to the developer console, https://console.developers.google.com/project 2. Create a new project (if necessary), and select it once created. 3. Select \"APIs & Services\" from the navigation menu. 4. Select \"Credentials\". 5. Create new credentials of type \"OAuth Client ID\". 6. Choose application type \"Other\". 7. Choose a name for the client. This should get you all the values but for the refresh token. For that one: 1. Clone the https://github.com/google/gmail-oauth2-tools repository 2. Execute the following command in the cloned repository: python2.7 python/oauth2.py --generate_oauth2_token \ --client_id= \ --client_secret= You should now have all the required values (the :token-url value should be \"https://accounts.google.com/o/oauth2/token\").") -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: Thomas Fitzsimmons Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 15:39:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Cc: 41386@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.158990268224063 (code B ref 41386); Tue, 19 May 2020 15:39:01 +0000 Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 May 2020 15:38:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50752 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jb4JX-0006Fj-9w for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 May 2020 11:38:01 -0400 Received: from mail-qt1-f181.google.com ([209.85.160.181]:41344) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jb4JV-0006FW-Rz for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 May 2020 11:37:54 -0400 Received: by mail-qt1-f181.google.com with SMTP id m44so11473345qtm.8 for <41386@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 19 May 2020 08:37:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fitzsim-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=Gf4Mp3H0zLzTJLLya/u5/mpGRrY3Ofert83JQbaQ/YY=; b=aNS4x4UZxu1t6AvvJc2wMEqkNHeEmSmhyssGnC3UU8bOUXMUSIqr5BOPpYVyf6Mp9N Uhr0Xq0dw4sWOhWL8AqYRdPxAU/mXYNWwDQKfXUBlULZ2hmVF3W9PgTUjqZypP3BXp62 Njyp5N2uv0JY2+KJjzvE4TGqVZ8VhbKEamCvuX9rBjmtWOv4GEc36IxcTu+9bCv9VfaT WExHXmIbYY/wJI8EsAirNQ6SssMLMKvHHnILf4+hdcJ2g8uD1HboTdDdCYpOETQArr8y 71ktZYvWK3PS8kEz78SiG2hmxoM9wKBnhZ8hHaUYBh0kwTJqNYl0zQDsuQBOo6s2TeDz Ew/Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=Gf4Mp3H0zLzTJLLya/u5/mpGRrY3Ofert83JQbaQ/YY=; b=PXgrbYKejjld1CSixWCF/Y6FkFwBLhNSmguM11B4Gj2Z2zsw/S5AnLKo2xzsSfKaIy C+yqYAF+oAiK3/PyZLxH+zG8AzJ7ME7qwmLltKt54QN9glhQiB3+kI+/kPqumekOp27d 7W0KeFpPboN+njDM6z6lAb7bcjCe1RzqK9AeaE+tisDCJmG5yAIqL31h0/Pj8z4wMrWy MVJUj0p/F7hIJoF2r9DHpPAI90QirDfrIUiJtoyXYR7crkmxALilRT7nDjg3heryYBIL ZT0dr1ETFERWP4CB3u8It86gpWuunvmMMlH1q3apS3/7jLZVYV2Wox+rP13Zd9fXjtGb fZeA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531r4DyPyX+Z26euHEidEb74P4kLnSI7Fz1xIEyDk3ZextbAnWZ9 cVork1Jjf2Cu4uauARgi/4ibkLsMtlIHNw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwTK0t9oQ7h+98YDlN5GEPDTeXD3Ev4iPI83bziIcEsv/1M86bNDFbZT6uM6Au3P91PTnDjhA== X-Received: by 2002:aed:24a8:: with SMTP id t37mr272652qtc.199.1589902667606; Tue, 19 May 2020 08:37:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (69-165-165-189.dsl.teksavvy.com. [69.165.165.189]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i5sm435qtp.66.2020.05.19.08.37.46 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 19 May 2020 08:37:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Thomas Fitzsimmons References: <87y2poqehh.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 11:37:46 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87y2poqehh.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Tue, 19 May 2020 14:46:34 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > Thomas Fitzsimmons writes: > >> Is support for OAuth 2.0 -- perhaps via oauth2.el available in GNU ELPA >> -- something that Gnus could eventually implement? If so, I guess this >> bug report could be where the idea is discussed. > > I don't think there's any way to ship Emacs with built-in oauth2 support > for doing auth with Gmail -- it requires distributions with API secrets > and stuff, and there's no secrets in the Emacs distribution. > > Or is there a way to do that now? I haven't been paying attention the > last few months. I remember Thunderbird including some credentials in > the source code and saying, jokily, "remember, these are secret". > Somebody would have to register the Emacs "app" with Google, and for > Emacs, that would have to be the FSF, right? And I don't see that > happening ever, ideologically. I suppose it depends on what Google wants during the registration process; I've never tried this registration process before so I don't know what's involved. Maybe someone from the FSF could research this? Maybe a solution could be found for Free Software like Emacs. Thunderbird is mentioned as a not-less-secure-app, so they seem to have solved this problem to Thunderbird/Google's satisfaction. According to communications I've received for my Google "G Suite" email service, Google plans to change these "less secure app" policies such that next year they won't allow Gnus to connect using username/password authentication like it does today. > But somebody could definitely write a package and put that on MELPA, and > do the registration, I think? (With the same joke, of course.) OK, maybe Google could relax the secrecy requirement for Emacs though, since I'd hope they'd be sufficiently Free-Software-friendly to work something out. I assume, given what Thunderbird is doing, that the secrecy requirement isn't something fundamental to OAuth 2.0's security. Thomas From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: David Engster Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 16:01:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Thomas Fitzsimmons Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 41386@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.158990403726418 (code B ref 41386); Tue, 19 May 2020 16:01:01 +0000 Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 May 2020 16:00:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50762 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jb4fU-0006s2-Ui for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 May 2020 12:00:37 -0400 Received: from zplane.randomsample.de ([192.145.45.252]:37908) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jb4fS-0006rj-Gj for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 May 2020 12:00:35 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=randomsample.de; s=a; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date: References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=xn0s9i8sGfPNITMiaRKq+YmcFQAp8a+oDJMEHuiiIeM=; b=OJR2OL2h6AKLHVDCfQ/Mi8YfL +YbtBTOwdEBkFlgjSn1wKXGqu8H8vF2n6Ty0J6m2YsYvbBG7LEu952cVuBjltdbyrZab5tjSLgt0E yFF5F16boabkZlrXt3LXgrCJ5kWbDVtclnghr9l+cfKHUIcpVSQO0q5Fe4ckLNN/kI/Jd9PuFpO4Y P5vsSWXR5M1yZhxrKuSYNl2mXIKx2sA53xcW0teEGrq6Emzo1QK3t4sdvxpWFL0CL54uNnT7+KMCt PzYCEDzS4UF6aipgEIpxZI8aafiBkz25hWdRt/XDhy/uhM7YD7MueyawCoxpUoIiVQ7EwBkiX5Prr 0yyiKvZZQ==; Received: from [95.90.186.238] (helo=void) by zplane.randomsample.de with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jb4fH-0005xh-BI; Tue, 19 May 2020 18:00:27 +0200 From: David Engster In-Reply-To: (Thomas Fitzsimmons's message of "Tue, 19 May 2020 11:37:46 -0400") References: <87y2poqehh.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.91 (gnu/linux) Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 18:00:21 +0200 Message-ID: <87r1vfhq3u.fsf@randomsample> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.4 X-Spam-Level: -- X-Spam-Report: ALL_TRUSTED=-1,AWL=0.102,BAYES_00=-1.5 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > Maybe a solution could be found for Free Software like Emacs. > Thunderbird is mentioned as a not-less-secure-app, so they seem to have > solved this problem to Thunderbird/Google's satisfaction. No, they haven't. It's just that at the moment, no one cares. It is pretty obvious that OAuth2 client id/secrets do not make sense in desktop applications (whether (F)OSS or not), making their whole point moot. Google admits this much in their documentation, where they say The process results in a client ID and, in some cases, a client secret, which you embed in the source code of your application. (In this context, the client secret is obviously not treated as a secret.) (see https://developers.google.com/identity/protocols/oauth2) People took this paragraph as permission to simply put client id and secret directly into the source code. However, Google *explicitly* forbids this in their developer TOS: Developer credentials (such as passwords, keys, and client IDs) are intended to be used by you and identify your API Client. You will keep your credentials confidential and make reasonable efforts to prevent and discourage other API Clients from using your credentials. Developer credentials may not be embedded in open source projects. (see https://developers.google.com/terms) The Thunderbird people simply ignore this and do it anyway, but it's not like they have much choice. > OK, maybe Google could relax the secrecy requirement for Emacs though, > since I'd hope they'd be sufficiently Free-Software-friendly to work > something out. Google does not care one bit. The solution to this problem is to choose another mail provider. -David From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 16:13:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Thomas Fitzsimmons Cc: 41386@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.158990477527543 (code B ref 41386); Tue, 19 May 2020 16:13:01 +0000 Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 May 2020 16:12:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50767 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jb4rP-0007AB-1x for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 May 2020 12:12:55 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:56604) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jb4rN-00079w-BE for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 May 2020 12:12:54 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=lVA7wXaF/s+1S3ac3V0kmVABpuq2SWUTNLf0gRKuURs=; b=bpjRr/6eLCwajfDZkRM6A3xd7C iiyM0kt+FwCJ+l5uLJCbf3TbMHj58pFO/vvcpHl0TtzyzZgl3yTfEdbDEz7+kjle+blYIluZmHVTt IyKnXhULdB9XrACZ+oi2CK/uPOBN1TK0oHSk6+7vEni6GREGbnt+RVzLcCXF+9vWyQRM=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=marnie) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jb4rE-0003KF-1M; Tue, 19 May 2020 18:12:46 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <87y2poqehh.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 18:12:43 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Thomas Fitzsimmons's message of "Tue, 19 May 2020 11:37:46 -0400") Message-ID: <87v9krq4xw.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Thomas Fitzsimmons writes: > I suppose it depends on what Google wants during the registration > process; I've never tried this registration process before so I don't > know what's involved. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Thomas Fitzsimmons writes: > I suppose it depends on what Google wants during the registration > process; I've never tried this registration process before so I don't > know what's involved. You register a developer account (with your name and address and stuff), and you then register an application. Everybody connecting to Gmail will use this application ID, so you are "responsible" in some degree for the users of your application. Rate-limiting, for instance, are based on the application ID. > OK, maybe Google could relax the secrecy requirement for Emacs though, > since I'd hope they'd be sufficiently Free-Software-friendly to work > something out. I assume, given what Thunderbird is doing, that the > secrecy requirement isn't something fundamental to OAuth 2.0's security. It is. OAuth login without secrets isn't any more secure than normal user name/password logins, so making apps run through these hoops is just obfuscation. It's obvious what Google's end game here is: They will stop IMAP access altogether to Gmail as soon as they are able to without losing too many of the users. This OAuth 2.0 stuff is just a sop they can point people towards while they're closing off access to their walled garden: "See! We're still open!" And people bite. Some hackernews commented something like "I don't see why people are complaining... they just have to run a script..." The only solution here is to leave Gmail. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 03:54:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Thomas Fitzsimmons Cc: 41386@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.158994680929461 (code B ref 41386); Wed, 20 May 2020 03:54:01 +0000 Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 May 2020 03:53:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51824 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jbFnM-0007f7-Qg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 May 2020 23:53:29 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:37288) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jbFnK-0007eu-Hb for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 May 2020 23:53:27 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:38884) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jbFnE-0002p9-VY; Tue, 19 May 2020 23:53:21 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jbFn6-000436-BO; Tue, 19 May 2020 23:53:12 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: (message from Thomas Fitzsimmons on Mon, 18 May 2020 22:05:04 -0400) References: Message-Id: Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 23:53:12 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > Some email services seem to be moving toward requiring MUAs to support > OAuth 2.0, one reason being that they would like MUAs to do two factor > authentication. It would be nice to have this capability in Gnus's > nnimap. This may raise some moral issues -- depending on what practical requirements there are. Would you like to explain to me how the two-factor authentication works in practice, and what the user needs to have? For instance, can the user do this using nothing but Emacs running on some operating system (GNU/Linux, we hope)? If not, what else does the user need to have? Does it require the user to have a portable phone? Do those email services plan to require two-factor authentication or offer it as an option for the user? Are there free implementations of OAuth 2.0? What are their licenses? -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 04:00:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Thomas Fitzsimmons Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 41386@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.158994717730023 (code B ref 41386); Wed, 20 May 2020 04:00:02 +0000 Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 May 2020 03:59:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51843 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jbFtF-0007o5-6p for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 May 2020 23:59:37 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:38176) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jbFtD-0007nr-Q1 for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 May 2020 23:59:32 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:39040) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jbFt8-00042S-Dr; Tue, 19 May 2020 23:59:26 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jbFt6-0007Dg-Vd; Tue, 19 May 2020 23:59:25 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: (message from Thomas Fitzsimmons on Tue, 19 May 2020 11:37:46 -0400) References: <87y2poqehh.fsf@gnus.org> Message-Id: Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 23:59:24 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] This is alarming news. If these reports are correct, they mean that Google will entirely cut off access to Gmail from the Free World. Can you find a web page that describes the danger in a clear way, with references to substantiate the warning? That is the first thing we need in order to campaign to convince Google not to do it. -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 04:03:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Noam Postavsky Cc: larsi@gnus.org, fitzsim@fitzsim.org, 41386@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.158994734030437 (code B ref 41386); Wed, 20 May 2020 04:03:01 +0000 Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 May 2020 04:02:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51861 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jbFvv-0007ur-P4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 May 2020 00:02:19 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:38940) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jbFvu-0007ud-R9 for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 May 2020 00:02:19 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:39223) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jbFvp-0004sH-IG; Wed, 20 May 2020 00:02:13 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jbFvj-0002QX-Bn; Wed, 20 May 2020 00:02:08 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: (message from Noam Postavsky on Tue, 19 May 2020 08:58:01 -0400) References: <87y2poqehh.fsf@gnus.org> Message-Id: Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 00:02:07 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > There is something called xoauth2, is that related? Someone posted a > package for it, but the docs are a bit thin... > https://github.com/ccrusius/auth-source-xoauth2 I read the response to your message, but I could not tell whether it involves some nonfree software. Does it? -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 13:33:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: rms@gnu.org, Thomas Fitzsimmons Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 41386@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.15899815464035 (code B ref 41386); Wed, 20 May 2020 13:33:01 +0000 Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 May 2020 13:32:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52649 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jbOpd-000131-Q6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 May 2020 09:32:26 -0400 Received: from mail-yb1-f179.google.com ([209.85.219.179]:39319) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jbOpb-00012m-Pf for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 May 2020 09:32:24 -0400 Received: by mail-yb1-f179.google.com with SMTP id r128so979671ybc.6 for <41386@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 20 May 2020 06:32:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=lZz5olmNAtWEurf8zpxp027HWWC60Xk5gzNhnorQDAE=; b=rCq2hewdaML9v/wWtYcnNVRuMKuPC/p8opyYY473BKUlrTu+tLymFkOUcIVoQeOwp9 V1cTil0JLQEhz+i9XsuKm2RkyTKyJXGi9SeXJK1jn7Vw3d+WoiKUl5bpvWwmf3kZA1xm 1qrpbOz0Bi54QLfjR+ru0nnMyfEWB0mYXwHORhe0FkdwF90CmjIQ36lDIl5jwdaUPH9b 2ChtuqySR8xvQQuIwjClQ5vTMpdiVsS1eMdWiU6KM90socDy5jQiucBrRhWMHF6pJ2V1 PC1ln4kIn4UsqD5I5H7OFMQNL6Gg48lOK9VFPQHHW7SlREsFMHuL+yM0k5a1ttioEqkN mNLA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531qdY/pGKpKvskeg9hBRgIGNzmCMsExjh6rb4IrFab5TEmWj0D7 kG+tHYQ5VFRUDMf4KDfNthSx1ADZFRmTRdbCdWU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyhJ1n8j22tH9gFLiwgacWFDCAVH5hor0wBCcSDG/1LhcWF4XZmljJFDAc3I81+naRXGKrCbjK/Dq4qCKidnsQ= X-Received: by 2002:a25:5f52:: with SMTP id h18mr7008517ybm.231.1589981538210; Wed, 20 May 2020 06:32:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 20 May 2020 06:32:17 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: References: <87y2poqehh.fsf@gnus.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 06:32:17 -0700 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Richard Stallman writes: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > This is alarming news. If these reports are correct, they mean that > Google will entirely cut off access to Gmail from the Free World. > > Can you find a web page that describes the danger in a clear way, > with references to substantiate the warning? That is the first thing > we need in order to campaign to convince Google not to do it. Here are two relevant announcements, I think: Turning off less secure app access to G Suite accounts https://gsuiteupdates.googleblog.com/2019/12/less-secure-apps-oauth-google-= username-password-incorrect.html Less secure app turn-off suspended until further notice https://gsuiteupdates.googleblog.com/2020/03/less-secure-app-turn-off-suspe= nded.html In the second of them, we read: Last December, we announced that we=E2=80=99d be turning off less secur= e app (LSA) access to G Suite accounts, and that you should migrate to OAuth authentication instead. The first phase of the LSA turn-down was scheduled for June 15, 2020. As many organizations deal with the impact of COVID-19 and are now focused on supporting a remote workforce, we want to minimize potential disruptions for customers unable to complete migrations in this timeframe. As a result, we are suspending the LSA turn-off until further notice. All previously announced timeframes no longer apply. So I guess this means that in the mid-term, people should seriously consider leaving Google. Hope that helps. Best regards, Stefan Kangas From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: Thomas Fitzsimmons Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 14:06:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Richard Stallman Cc: 41386@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.15899835578397 (code B ref 41386); Wed, 20 May 2020 14:06:01 +0000 Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 May 2020 14:05:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53852 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jbPM5-0002BM-JG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 May 2020 10:05:57 -0400 Received: from mail-qk1-f169.google.com ([209.85.222.169]:33101) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jbPM4-0002B5-E9 for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 May 2020 10:05:56 -0400 Received: by mail-qk1-f169.google.com with SMTP id z80so3675261qka.0 for <41386@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 20 May 2020 07:05:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fitzsim-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=c6p8H3pQmspL1gpDXUc8RVI4OHCy+5x3w2ly5bcddFI=; b=rEFrVILYbWJyKgaj5qBzOWiPGLRMkMORyDwarpxxVoX1jKXaJfN+BJ6eAEKoOHCG9g 60E/1nTMj5QM68nyW9qTTITFNOnZNyuRLhe1FzZeZ4cXJk8gHALKHqDIa20dT+SayAS8 kU8t6s9T4+RjeyZHxWN4mJM3y6Pt2zhYbyTlIzPf0ZtcWWqRAD0cXUC5b547KmsJeiVh Nt0zTqR8eQqjX/XW1TBPirwsMRHAYjI0d4SoVgzPZTjkLodU4C1OAAIMw64Q2jMkKDBy W7Y3I4U6YrR6q10K5NqlWNTX52wpR0vlmNc6j8ip2zDbHZFtkHfjYrF6UyFHtW5iLYmB XBGg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=c6p8H3pQmspL1gpDXUc8RVI4OHCy+5x3w2ly5bcddFI=; b=spc8w1jbb9eCABwy8kQgIqyuU423+Ym8cxZtJaAsNrLdey+GLOFSxhN0ojd28deVI7 EPryO1dkpHJHfv5loizmYMEphEuNtcL1vuHErEC0fhxp+PZVM04qlcuRtwQMgIZX9DfK 9YHL9f7Igm3dAjSI91cgabABLg9MBdBa3UojZiDE4UtntdddRice94nWi33VYs41x/Bg d/yWhGhIEUw6xa0urcBC0GwUtByHzaCqvKKdg4gldVfjASvuRok1gSWxHxVtdQ4xU8HX +E77+SzD23ir15cH+o+IBPAxelpIyaTgERA0/8UTCELx0WfHM/6kw5UBlfFIV148Lyr1 fmJw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533TaTPR9eE0dzfdFRYVyKz7lV1q6Tlae5qT6sLJhTQDnRzcuwuf AmA2ALzyX+6FYxdy5XHCwolv2MDNX8kkQ5zW X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw1Z2LKZQSjIp0bAlIigPT1DsPpcos2rEBsKrJADYsPuY9JLipVShXsdfieg+PEl7Yc6lNRNg== X-Received: by 2002:a37:85c4:: with SMTP id h187mr4573398qkd.179.1589983550433; Wed, 20 May 2020 07:05:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (69-165-165-189.dsl.teksavvy.com. [69.165.165.189]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j90sm2484929qte.33.2020.05.20.07.05.49 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 20 May 2020 07:05:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Thomas Fitzsimmons References: Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 10:05:48 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Tue, 19 May 2020 23:53:12 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Richard, Richard Stallman writes: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > Some email services seem to be moving toward requiring MUAs to support > > OAuth 2.0, one reason being that they would like MUAs to do two factor > > authentication. It would be nice to have this capability in Gnus's > > nnimap. > > This may raise some moral issues -- depending on what practical > requirements there are. Would you like to explain to me how the > two-factor authentication works in practice, and what the user needs > to have? Thanks for having a look at this bug report. I could explain in a general way how this might work for Gnus's nnimap backend. However, given what I've learned from Lars's and David's responses, I would prefer to keep this bug report solely about OAuth 2.0 support, with a focus on Google's email services. Two factor authentication can be implemented by a service without requiring OAuth 2.0, and vice versa. (Given what I've learned from Lars and David I probably should not have even mentioned it in the initial report.) Therefore I think lumping the two concepts together in this bug report will be too confusing. We could open a new bug report, or open a discussion on emacs-devel, about two factor authentication support in Emacs generally. However, I don't have a specific example to discuss or a bug to report about a specific service, so I don't think the resulting discussion would be focused enough to be productive. Thomas From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: Thomas Fitzsimmons Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 16:17:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Kangas Cc: larsi@gnus.org, rms@gnu.org, 41386@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.158999138629783 (code B ref 41386); Wed, 20 May 2020 16:17:02 +0000 Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 May 2020 16:16:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54102 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jbROL-0007kJ-SW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 May 2020 12:16:26 -0400 Received: from mail-qk1-f195.google.com ([209.85.222.195]:33515) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jbROJ-0007k5-Sd for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 May 2020 12:16:24 -0400 Received: by mail-qk1-f195.google.com with SMTP id z80so4171199qka.0 for <41386@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 20 May 2020 09:16:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fitzsim-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=Jie2x/R3QHapOAfiFc50aYWHQ6M3CHCboCf0UB9RjG8=; b=pN0zF+UeY1s/B3qLZCeuLRpnk85WPq5FD5q7oTzKxaFsASA+V2CKE83ykERuX6OOmq 6jE51l1zJOwXXefTmWfrNSxhf22nUGpG8tjfWSq8R8VRXeoLBqi/4fr0sfdDBAuQUoSo n4AxZWVHApenTVhYAdr2eNBugh9IWaeMfES2hcqLXsUG6IsJ7l2YO7J/vUAsjCBPy+zv HcL5z9fIHAtzUqTYmyyLplZjSAkbBOoaJdPxUHDGWwsJd5C40K4/oUxVheoWSW2orqLm KTnZTxvNLMyF7L8HAJEqS/wmhME5a5zhZ+QthpMbtKJ69wBdn9VxvIZBuEjhVAGGjcq4 GR1g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=Jie2x/R3QHapOAfiFc50aYWHQ6M3CHCboCf0UB9RjG8=; b=gv7X9ZY9/jQYZ3KavZXdoOvElHSciJ1wnx1ZcRcQeB48Pp9D7Nl6TI6JTqgOrL96Ku nODkuGfSdtzLEq55bhi3pGIH/vlaY4EVF8U596A0YZnVIvJv744iym75pnQGUMHnud+C rBRcSpgm/Og0atcIASoXLjdvj/CI92cLemh/uUWfbNCqbc28J9riIA/myY17DLwmw6jT GOWU0Wp2zTBkzGkt/3rcXa9TukAnV0Hnpr3OCwXzOUylNlsGuxEh0xpxx6IcqqkuuAOJ kYbh5/ImrhBOLbjLTJOHYNMTqICeu5wWc3CAe/8nx/2o7z1aB5xwQanR7xpKSaOBKUVe GvzA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532fWyW/AabXs6wp8UddyJ2nVqNtjIgOumTVNyIKM+pZQ5jde2Jr 3EzjQ0JDjCivihevINWVrkNVpuJcofcVgTBm X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxtlvDf+e5gOO0ZAR1Uoy3ejlw2IqLIO8AW1AILNnbzU2Epq3Hq+CAwuipTnIMbiZjXrmRc+w== X-Received: by 2002:a37:a885:: with SMTP id r127mr5618516qke.93.1589991377861; Wed, 20 May 2020 09:16:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (69-165-165-189.dsl.teksavvy.com. [69.165.165.189]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g7sm1883945qkk.44.2020.05.20.09.16.17 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 20 May 2020 09:16:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Thomas Fitzsimmons References: <87y2poqehh.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 12:16:16 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Wed, 20 May 2020 06:32:17 -0700") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Stefan, Stefan Kangas writes: > Richard Stallman writes: > >> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] >> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] >> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] >> >> This is alarming news. If these reports are correct, they mean that >> Google will entirely cut off access to Gmail from the Free World. >> >> Can you find a web page that describes the danger in a clear way, >> with references to substantiate the warning? That is the first thing >> we need in order to campaign to convince Google not to do it. > > Here are two relevant announcements, I think: > > Turning off less secure app access to G Suite accounts > https://gsuiteupdates.googleblog.com/2019/12/less-secure-apps-oauth-google-username-password-incorrect.html > > Less secure app turn-off suspended until further notice > https://gsuiteupdates.googleblog.com/2020/03/less-secure-app-turn-off-suspended.html > > [...] Yes, those are the relevant announcements, thanks. Quoting from the first announcement: "If you are using Thunderbird or another email client, re-add your Google Account and configure it to use IMAP with OAuth." It seems like Google is acknowledging Thunderbird as a valid option post-"less-secure-app" turn-off there. Richard, I think Lars's and David's summary of Thunderbird's situation highlights the non-technical issues blocking GNU Emacs from supporting OAuth 2.0 access to the G Suite IMAP service. I'm wondering if the FSF could help with those issues. > So I guess this means that in the mid-term, people should seriously > consider leaving Google. Agreed, and I am [1], but maybe a better outcome could be reached. It sounds like from Thunderbird's situation, changes to Google's developer terms of service, giving some consideration to Free Software projects using these APIs, could solve the problem. It might take non-technical discussions between the FSF and Google, but that's one of the FSF's functions, AIUI. Maybe the result could be a model for how to handle other similar situations, since Emacs needing "API keys" to access network services is not unique to G Suite or Google. Thomas 1. I'm tempted to try Lars's self-hosted email script. ;-) From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 03:46:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Thomas Fitzsimmons Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, 41386@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.15900327411216 (code B ref 41386); Thu, 21 May 2020 03:46:02 +0000 Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 May 2020 03:45:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54940 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jbc9M-0000JY-Ts for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 May 2020 23:45:41 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:46240) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jbc9L-0000JL-48 for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 May 2020 23:45:39 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:36517) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jbc9F-00040M-7f; Wed, 20 May 2020 23:45:33 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jbc9E-0007FT-90; Wed, 20 May 2020 23:45:32 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: (message from Thomas Fitzsimmons on Wed, 20 May 2020 12:16:16 -0400) References: <87y2poqehh.fsf@gnus.org> Message-Id: Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 23:45:32 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] It seems to me that the requirement for a secret key in a user program is fundamentally incompatible with free software. A free system cannot keep secrets from the user. However, if Google is willing to leave a space to use free clients, something could be worked out. First I have to finish studying all this. I will send mail now to fetch those articles. -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 03:48:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Thomas Fitzsimmons Cc: 41386@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.15900328641407 (code B ref 41386); Thu, 21 May 2020 03:48:01 +0000 Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 May 2020 03:47:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54944 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jbcB8-0000MN-8M for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 May 2020 23:47:44 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:46424) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jbcB6-0000M8-EG for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 May 2020 23:47:28 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:36548) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jbcB1-0004EN-4h; Wed, 20 May 2020 23:47:23 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jbcAz-0007XM-DE; Wed, 20 May 2020 23:47:21 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: (message from Thomas Fitzsimmons on Wed, 20 May 2020 10:05:48 -0400) References: Message-Id: Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 23:47:21 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > Two factor authentication can be implemented by a service without > requiring OAuth 2.0, and vice versa. Ok. But my concern is not about OAuth in particular. The crucial question is, will Gmail in the future permit access from the Free World in any manner whatsoever? In other words, if we look at all the ways of logging in that Gmail permits in the future, will _any_ of them be usable in the Free World? Can you help me find the answer? If it is no, we had better put all our strength into changing that answer. -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: Thomas Fitzsimmons Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 14:32:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Richard Stallman Cc: 41386@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.159007146615920 (code B ref 41386); Thu, 21 May 2020 14:32:01 +0000 Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 May 2020 14:31:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57062 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jbmDy-00048h-0b for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 May 2020 10:31:06 -0400 Received: from mail-qv1-f49.google.com ([209.85.219.49]:46074) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jbmDv-00048B-Pj for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 May 2020 10:31:05 -0400 Received: by mail-qv1-f49.google.com with SMTP id z9so3112960qvi.12 for <41386@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 21 May 2020 07:31:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fitzsim-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=cv89ltcsUeO7wigsaoDUVm+5vP/WqSs5i3TbxPvSUY0=; b=haW4ru4w1sasdryNC2iM4CXC+FECUdM71kwqs1JQUeKuYbSHdXbf4XzL1NLXMQunMU pVKeqVJ6TBcwaA/ccvzuEBr4RAmrI86we7Uo6atoTZ2R4APk+fq3f+TEzCoyVAT4WlAc tpFmNnuKzFtfOKVEybsfMUisQwiY2VKePQ9rxdQC8JOuZOat6lwlSm8oPBoQtcFo185t /zb0a7xv8GV7MSNhCmuGQfa43LWltQ0ay56z2WInVT3n9LM3HvtPk7CMIq60T62R9v49 pOjMF43u84z85BK59CHatVpJs55W+6WAt7xhVOIA6xQ7eC3jC7UOsQRAd9MDILc1RDkM AiqQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=cv89ltcsUeO7wigsaoDUVm+5vP/WqSs5i3TbxPvSUY0=; b=OlCvgDF3kT/TT0KON4FyTx2X9CwaEXqP5OKShCmF2tpme6ZTHyCQfGV5Ez2c13BPVQ 8Jto8OicduXNqwFevjm79nTi1s4NAR4rYGSD+H6863axQWKXUH0nrNyFY7dZwGpJgOqB iIfD3uwCZeENJY0Xwq7qqzGSGN5rEh6FD+FxISyVaIj2VFzXUx1b06Syrlm4M5fi67Y2 5VrJni+SD5MxeQeDYIYjLjTiaTY08wBHpvhHoTjxgh63O88Z4p49q7gmXN+ZxRpzb234 fykT6ZcstGQM1wpLIDqJhAuBpme7zl0q4sssoViHqx+lg/ez17JjneetmnGtJHJBcEOI 4mxw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530alrjJ9gwK0uQULcyFqXBzWASPRfnOK0EVcwt9iIsDw9P5/08E 3W3KDhr5S/M1GUtprNP8mLoT2fF6aHkUMihK X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzDSiACcfO8wEyoHmQrGoL6Z/EUR1OZ9eUfQVlmvUAUPNB2zQj+Di0kHfHwdyaRMifl6LFD9A== X-Received: by 2002:ad4:4890:: with SMTP id bv16mr10627856qvb.164.1590071457739; Thu, 21 May 2020 07:30:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (69-165-165-189.dsl.teksavvy.com. [69.165.165.189]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f127sm4915117qkj.61.2020.05.21.07.30.56 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 21 May 2020 07:30:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Thomas Fitzsimmons References: Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 10:30:55 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Wed, 20 May 2020 23:47:21 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Richard Stallman writes: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > Two factor authentication can be implemented by a service without > > requiring OAuth 2.0, and vice versa. > > Ok. But my concern is not about OAuth in particular. The crucial > question is, will Gmail in the future permit access from the Free World > in any manner whatsoever? > > In other words, if we look at all the ways of logging in that Gmail > permits in the future, will _any_ of them be usable in the Free World? > > Can you help me find the answer? If it is no, we had better put all our > strength into changing that answer. OK, I'll try to help, but I don't know what Google or Gmail will do in the future, in general, obviously. I wanted this bug report to be specifically about Gnus, IMAP and OAuth 2.0 (which the responding experts correctly inferred was more precisely about Gnus, IMAP and Gmail's proposed OAuth 2.0 policy change). Your question reminded me that Gmail provides "basic HTML view" which does not require any Javascript whatsoever for sign-in or for the main interface, and thus is fully useable with Emacs Web Wowser (eww). For me that isn't a viable alternative to Gnus, so it's tangential to this bug report, but that access method is feasible using entirely Free Software. Hopefully that answers your question. Will "basic HTML view" still be available after Gmail starts mandating OAuth 2.0 for IMAP access (assuming they do, sometime in the future)? I suspect it will, but I don't know. Thomas From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 03:08:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Cc: fitzsim@fitzsim.org, 41386@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.159011686912419 (code B ref 41386); Fri, 22 May 2020 03:08:02 +0000 Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 May 2020 03:07:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57729 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jby2E-0003ED-Mt for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 May 2020 23:07:49 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:42794) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jby1y-0003Df-Lb for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 May 2020 23:07:45 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:56050) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jby1t-0004A7-21; Thu, 21 May 2020 23:07:25 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jby1s-0007Oe-8Q; Thu, 21 May 2020 23:07:24 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: <87y2poqehh.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Tue, 19 May 2020 14:46:34 +0200) References: <87y2poqehh.fsf@gnus.org> Message-Id: Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 23:07:24 -0400 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > I don't think there's any way to ship Emacs with built-in oauth2 support > for doing auth with Gmail -- it requires distributions with API secrets > and stuff, and there's no secrets in the Emacs distribution. There are no real secrets in any free operating system. The only way I know of to have a key and effectively keep it secret with software is to bury it in a nonfree excutable, and that is not a solution; it only replaces one impassable obstacle with another impassable obstacle. > Or is there a way to do that now? I haven't been paying attention the > last few months. I remember Thunderbird including some credentials in > the source code and saying, jokily, "remember, these are secret". > Somebody would have to register the Emacs "app" with Google, and for > Emacs, that would have to be the FSF, right? And I don't see that > happening ever, ideologically. If what Thunderbird is doing does not involve nonfree software, I see no reason we couldn't do the same. But I doubt that Google will continue accepting this forever. Google might eventually decide to kick off Thunderbird users, and Gnus users along with them. > But somebody could definitely write a package and put that on MELPA, and > do the registration, I think? (With the same joke, of course.) To the extent that this approach is usable, we woultn't need to relegate it to MELPA. We could put it straight into Gnus. The two Google announcements clearly describe how Google plans to block access with anything other than OAuth 2. They don't go into much detail about what OAuth 2 requires, and don't describe how this conflicts with free software. Can someone find a page describing this issue in a careful and thorough way, written by someone who knows the subject? Can someone get in touch with a Thunderbird developer or expert who would like to discuss the issue? -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 03:10:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Thomas Fitzsimmons Cc: 41386@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.159011699712628 (code B ref 41386); Fri, 22 May 2020 03:10:01 +0000 Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 May 2020 03:09:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57742 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jby4L-0003Hc-0G for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 May 2020 23:09:57 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:43094) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jby4K-0003HR-2w for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 May 2020 23:09:56 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:56111) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jby4E-0004Oc-TK; Thu, 21 May 2020 23:09:50 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jby42-0007jM-Ov; Thu, 21 May 2020 23:09:39 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: (message from Thomas Fitzsimmons on Thu, 21 May 2020 10:30:55 -0400) References: Message-Id: Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 23:09:38 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > OK, I'll try to help, but I don't know what Google or Gmail will do in > the future, in general, obviously. I don't expect you to practice precognition. But it may be possible to deduce something by putting their announcements together with other known facts. Maybe we could figure out questions to ask them. > Your question reminded me that Gmail provides "basic HTML view" which > does not require any Javascript whatsoever for sign-in or for the main > interface, and thus is fully useable with Emacs Web Wowser (eww). That is a significant fact. It means that using Gmail in the free world won't become entirely impossible. Thanks. So I modify the question: Will Gmail in the future permit access from the Free World to read mail with a free local MUA in any manner whatsoever? And there is another followup question: Is it possible to log in on basic HTML view passing via a proxy that will hide your actual location? It is possible that basic HTML view won't allow this. -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: David Engster Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 08:29:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Richard Stallman Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , fitzsim@fitzsim.org, 41386@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.15901361279716 (code B ref 41386); Fri, 22 May 2020 08:29:01 +0000 Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 May 2020 08:28:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58004 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jc32t-0002Wd-Gs for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 May 2020 04:28:47 -0400 Received: from zplane.randomsample.de ([192.145.45.252]:53848) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jc32r-0002WP-LA for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 May 2020 04:28:46 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=randomsample.de; s=a; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date: References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Iw8JvxPnSGHZ9yydXkokCrEXp+et/KnepLiVpNSwAIc=; b=bpC/llCqwOp7SEnqqn2OYue4L iFIRwotgo5ymH5BiUGdomvyvq7xmccGWWB6Old5FctY/Z8f4z/CPIhf9WhZYZqiUCU83Qol4ZjniR S7PiIntXah1OIHw8db1VKRQcCDlf8H5ueviG0FKS6tkEAUXetbMiewO236mYrga+KsRjy9EbQCvVT 0vZOfD4m01L/kEXHSCpXmh/mGC6K8wr3LGPWRDhOHhEbeaBZ6MaGwljXYu3mh6TVIwgUMW7HvKYH7 ArCjiocsJmjjTdWTtvRVvRlwNypjiFivcPnrflmTrvQA8KTs1jxM2gMaLisMSBAyLaYf1VAT5SclE wvNGFIHTg==; Received: from ip5f5abaee.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de ([95.90.186.238] helo=void) by zplane.randomsample.de with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jc32k-00059P-L4; Fri, 22 May 2020 10:28:38 +0200 From: David Engster In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Thu, 21 May 2020 23:07:24 -0400") References: <87y2poqehh.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.91 (gnu/linux) Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 10:28:38 +0200 Message-ID: <87tv08idah.fsf@randomsample> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.4 X-Spam-Level: -- X-Spam-Report: ALL_TRUSTED=-1,AWL=0.099,BAYES_00=-1.5 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > The two Google announcements clearly describe how Google plans to > block access with anything other than OAuth 2. They don't go into > much detail about what OAuth 2 requires, and don't describe how this > conflicts with free software. > > Can someone find a page describing this issue in a careful > and thorough way, written by someone who knows the subject? I've described the main issue in another mail in this bug thread. The problem is that Google's terms of service explicitly forbid to put client IDs into "open source projects". You can read their terms of service here: https://developers.google.com/terms Section 4b, paragraph 1: Developer credentials (such as passwords, keys, and client IDs) are intended to be used by you and identify your API Client. You will keep your credentials confidential and make reasonable efforts to prevent and discourage other API Clients from using your credentials. Developer credentials may not be embedded in open source projects. So for authors of (F)OSS non-web applications, this in effect makes it impossible to use OAuth2 with Google services if a client id/secret is required. The client id/secret is used to identify the application that is making the request. -David From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 04:14:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: David Engster Cc: larsi@gnus.org, fitzsim@fitzsim.org, 41386@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.159020719311604 (code B ref 41386); Sat, 23 May 2020 04:14:02 +0000 Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 May 2020 04:13:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33209 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jcLX7-000315-8v for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 May 2020 00:13:13 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:41880) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jcLX5-00030s-F0 for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 May 2020 00:13:12 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:37057) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jcLWz-0006Df-DL; Sat, 23 May 2020 00:13:05 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jcLWy-0003jH-I8; Sat, 23 May 2020 00:13:04 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: <87tv08idah.fsf@randomsample> (message from David Engster on Fri, 22 May 2020 10:28:38 +0200) References: <87y2poqehh.fsf@gnus.org> <87tv08idah.fsf@randomsample> Message-Id: Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 00:13:04 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > https://developers.google.com/terms > Section 4b, paragraph 1: That makes it pretty clear. Thanks. I will see what we can do. -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: Thomas Fitzsimmons Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 15:50:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Richard Stallman Cc: 41386@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.159024898331649 (code B ref 41386); Sat, 23 May 2020 15:50:01 +0000 Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 May 2020 15:49:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35346 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jcWP9-0008EP-8y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 May 2020 11:49:43 -0400 Received: from mail-qk1-f180.google.com ([209.85.222.180]:44768) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jcWP8-0008EC-Ay for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 May 2020 11:49:42 -0400 Received: by mail-qk1-f180.google.com with SMTP id b6so13709604qkh.11 for <41386@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 23 May 2020 08:49:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fitzsim-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=cFF1Nqek71QGVYHdOFcgsva1FV7snq0P7e8s09+i6kk=; b=V9XRtYlR/EM8+rSr7jFXF+GlL27x4mSBhWkCZR8NOa2NJf+bpWsCXc80H1dv/XZmtD tlx2S3T30g4ZeL7B1sAqo805hXPNax2SlJWfgHpTq1OGxA90mCSdrknFALFEzevVYbdy 3nRmXfIlzpMTme0NxcjzcsayAMAbdrcMX5DTO5e0i9dqQg7wblMNjo4qH7QgoeDItbC9 ou8ig+ysGjGzMfWAdIfq4Vjz3nGmSvYzI8Jl906HiGoaQLBDvNF1HEY5AQExNxRTaYdS GClzL829KVzZfzbAEfzMBMqjCYlnxTZLpAChjnKEXlSEFvzfk2zxhj+oZF10PMcedvWS N0tw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=cFF1Nqek71QGVYHdOFcgsva1FV7snq0P7e8s09+i6kk=; b=MANWeEdPA+46IAzzxLLE2ZT/8hYuNDFEbznnQMaak7TjKWDVgRC/IStBUsP9rzqjA5 wOsBMVYk5evpInlAgu1QOwaey7WV22OaZDcnpSD/ci0wCtsXbH0XfL9Tr+CIkSs//gBo y+dfMCXJm/DJbdt/Jfrs7++bbt7FAbvdifjHqhk4LyGDwyWwSbNhWnINl2oAIFK94r0I t0rdCCFXud3Buym6AfKzA1vqngJ20GsJaDvfcHklsdecz6SUTlx5xE1NFRrSPzEn9HKH fWSZbrObkF6Xw1/LQvqzFEClw2htLx3iqN+RIxEkx/S9ibqA+lvH6sN3vLxbyz+Utzga +R8w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532nYK6RmoJZtY6pmSMG3WjTkN+ktTR+PdyGBwJHNY2H9ZIVqWws OaZEeJ/eM/T0VDvYxwHIFE1AgKEdUuz3wg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxIROd69Rr3eWQlcwJSwJqpUYAvLV85RG4zAAIbdCwDJkIprjR5Q/UaNniYHz9rAqaRZqSU6g== X-Received: by 2002:a37:a847:: with SMTP id r68mr12246635qke.45.1590248976344; Sat, 23 May 2020 08:49:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (69-165-165-189.dsl.teksavvy.com. [69.165.165.189]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d14sm802887qkg.25.2020.05.23.08.49.35 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 23 May 2020 08:49:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Thomas Fitzsimmons References: Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 11:49:34 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Thu, 21 May 2020 23:09:38 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Richard Stallman writes: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > OK, I'll try to help, but I don't know what Google or Gmail will do in > > the future, in general, obviously. > > I don't expect you to practice precognition. But it may be possible > to deduce something by putting their announcements together with other > known facts. Maybe we could figure out questions to ask them. > > > Your question reminded me that Gmail provides "basic HTML view" which > > does not require any Javascript whatsoever for sign-in or for the main > > interface, and thus is fully useable with Emacs Web Wowser (eww). > > That is a significant fact. It means that using Gmail in the free > world won't become entirely impossible. Thanks. > > So I modify the question: > > Will Gmail in the future permit access from the Free World > to read mail with a free local MUA in any manner whatsoever? > > And there is another followup question: > > Is it possible to log in on basic HTML view > passing via a proxy that will hide your actual location? Yes. Here is the recipe I tested: sudo apt install proxychains sudo sed 's/#quiet_mode/quiet_mode/' -i /etc/proxychains.conf ssh -ND 9050 & HOME=$(mktemp -d) proxychains emacs -Q -nw M-x eww RET https://gmail.com RET [Use the usual web-based log-in procedure via Emacs Web Wowser.] The log-in procedure was successful and I was able to use the basic HTML view interface. To confirm the results of the test, I also logged into the same service via Firefox and a direct connection. After I did the procedure above, the Firefox session showed: "This account is currently being used in 1 other location (
)." Where
was the IP address of . The above is just an example, other methods may be superior in various ways, but I think this proves that Gmail is useable in Emacs Web Wowser via a proxy. Thomas P.S. Prior to installing proxychains, I tried using Emacs's built-in proxy support in the same way. There are references to SOCKS in the URL manual, but I couldn't find an easy way to make EWW use localhost:9050 as a SOCKS proxy. I debugged until I got to the comment "Should check for socks" in url-default-find-proxy-for-url. From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 03:55:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Thomas Fitzsimmons Cc: 41386@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.159029246725487 (code B ref 41386); Sun, 24 May 2020 03:55:02 +0000 Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 May 2020 03:54:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36143 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jchiU-0006d1-OE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 May 2020 23:54:26 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:53042) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jchiT-0006cp-4M for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 May 2020 23:54:25 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:54569) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jchiN-0001YR-NO; Sat, 23 May 2020 23:54:19 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jchiM-0000aK-5B; Sat, 23 May 2020 23:54:18 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: (message from Thomas Fitzsimmons on Sat, 23 May 2020 11:49:34 -0400) References: Message-Id: Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 23:54:18 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > Is it possible to log in on basic HTML view > > passing via a proxy that will hide your actual location? > Yes. Here is the recipe I tested: That is a little less bad. Is there any positive indication that Google will let people continue using this basic HTML mode? I wonder -- is it possible for a program talking to that proxy to convert the messages in the Gmail server into a mailbox file which you could then pass to an MUA? -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: Thomas Fitzsimmons Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 14:36:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Richard Stallman Cc: 41386@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.159033094930972 (code B ref 41386); Sun, 24 May 2020 14:36:02 +0000 Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 May 2020 14:35:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38433 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jcrjB-00083U-Ck for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 May 2020 10:35:49 -0400 Received: from mail-qk1-f169.google.com ([209.85.222.169]:42231) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jcrjA-00083D-2R for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 May 2020 10:35:48 -0400 Received: by mail-qk1-f169.google.com with SMTP id s1so15404835qkf.9 for <41386@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 24 May 2020 07:35:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fitzsim-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=Rj6VCjTWfFdia91a8bIkGpz3FJR91gAdxqMEYZD6s2w=; b=faosVY7ISmg9LXX7VW6Km/S6o6YaRWYdIj6gD8+vMOZstxFUZvVAHuYs9EO6NWDu4O nQGtu8uU84gMfMmpQe58fe5TO8O+/PE3+5Qu230ys/FMOm0CTZIaLCttCqzLUjfYipPc x0c9R9BAOOzGxuT5OcQHXd9I8GR0IIdkcj0cZYtLzexMO3ffhm2L7m9SU99vDGm64+vn I5KXrfFAhqDoBGiTmXpOTggDQqZXxSOvG4YDFkWfJSHzD2ShGNxkp87aZNQ7kUiF16Qn bUpJDPkL28Mr7Gn6aXnvsSjNSB45vP4YzqWckSBLvQaKtVBuqx6D+6hdhnCKRD1PQ8mI IISg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=Rj6VCjTWfFdia91a8bIkGpz3FJR91gAdxqMEYZD6s2w=; b=oW58zM3tqZ3BhD0NovVWA9XhFwR+G2qH2NtQLzjWHMs94ly8xT1xKH0z2mfHY93+Y6 itUl5rNw1OnTFMfgda0o/JP/9Q2qJVaPXvPzuUb1EuvEzm1tdDvpHYgKb6qVcwrrZwWS YZO/rVxThjogLGaYUzwJycdZg7j61xbfYJT7PhYJTWVlnGW534DTo7Xea+7qW4HAAV02 o7gmo2+zSVVNSWi6kM639QjQHteMI6QTl75Bk3n5/E/T1fx2K9cWdfn0iIaG/k5CxWBT q/dhJ2m0ZZK11YwTwthst6Z4WcQOoVSpcndwqJRpnMsD6TFO9uo6FDfcedu+8RF94/Nx Q0eQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531Echgdw4J9we+1bhnL8Z9odlIF0aw0oiCUPDzRGN+m0QU9E6GI +t7XQ7+dsriKslWIMSHPcJa2t2+2QxWjHA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJynzUAmNcbx/vtVLkV8Oxd/sC34DxiQvBaWlU/UiCWj0YXBqg6eIsgUMSCPrOGxcnGPCOCrrA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:200a:: with SMTP id c10mr14723478qka.218.1590330941997; Sun, 24 May 2020 07:35:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (69-165-165-189.dsl.teksavvy.com. [69.165.165.189]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c197sm12333473qkg.133.2020.05.24.07.35.41 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 24 May 2020 07:35:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Thomas Fitzsimmons References: Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 10:35:40 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Sat, 23 May 2020 23:54:18 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Richard Stallman writes: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > > Is it possible to log in on basic HTML view > > > passing via a proxy that will hide your actual location? > > > Yes. Here is the recipe I tested: > > That is a little less bad. > > Is there any positive indication that Google will let people continue > using this basic HTML mode? It seems like basic HTML view is the old mode that is still being maintained. Just after logging in, an HTML page mentions that "standard view" requires JavaScript and that to use standard view one must enable JavaScript. But the same page then provides the option, "To use [...] basic HTML view, which does not require JavaScript, click here.". After logging in, one can set basic HTML as the default view. So it seems like it is still fully supported. (As an aside: basic HTML view uses old HTML-table-based, rather than new CSS-based, layout, so it lays out nicely in EWW; in other words, it provides a user interface that is friendly to simple browsers. It's by no means an efficient alternative to Emacs's native MUAs though.) > I wonder -- is it possible for a program talking to that proxy to > convert the messages in the Gmail server into a mailbox file which you > could then pass to an MUA? I don't see a way of downloading mailbox files via simple links. It is technically possible to implement the conversion you're describing, since one can click through several links for a given message and eventually get the original text. However, it would be an awkward, fragile HTML-scraping-type implementation that I don't expect would be viable in practice. Thomas From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 04:40:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Thomas Fitzsimmons Cc: 41386@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.159038154421242 (code B ref 41386); Mon, 25 May 2020 04:40:01 +0000 Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2020 04:39:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39392 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jd4tE-0005WY-57 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 May 2020 00:39:04 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:42790) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jd4tC-0005W3-5k for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 May 2020 00:39:02 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:43161) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jd4t6-0007rC-J9; Mon, 25 May 2020 00:38:56 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jd4sw-0001kT-AV; Mon, 25 May 2020 00:38:46 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: (message from Thomas Fitzsimmons on Sun, 24 May 2020 10:35:40 -0400) References: Message-Id: Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 00:38:46 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > I wonder -- is it possible for a program talking to that proxy to > > convert the messages in the Gmail server into a mailbox file which you > > could then pass to an MUA? > I don't see a way of downloading mailbox files via simple links. I don't see how "simple links" relates to what I had in mind, so I have a feeling this is a misunderstanding. > It is technically possible to implement the conversion you're > describing, since one can click through several links for a given > message and eventually get the original text. However, it would be an > awkward, fragile HTML-scraping-type implementation that I don't expect > would be viable in practice. That is what I had in mind. Is it "fragile"? If Google changes the UI of the basic HTML mode, it would break. Does Google change that very often? In any case, if Google breaks all advertized other ways of transferring a Gmail account's incoming mail into a free MUA, scraping would be MUCH better than no way at all. -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2020 01:30:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Richard Stallman Cc: Thomas Fitzsimmons , stefan@marxist.se, 41386@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.15951221923913 (code B ref 41386); Sun, 19 Jul 2020 01:30:02 +0000 Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jul 2020 01:29:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59595 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jwy9I-000112-Dp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 18 Jul 2020 21:29:52 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:55510) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jwy9G-00010a-Az for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 18 Jul 2020 21:29:50 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=2QPwprEhwzJkEyoHDaqp3pIv31mNvYb8hfyX/Iwn3m0=; b=gXzruwcYNFz8UZ0//ND3pdvtm2 5IV4a+iFUrT1MN7doNZUSfQljUa/DdjZT2HeqiTicjSPOy1y4Nx2p7gHnqPR2dPKRNaUI1lBCHomp UMPqR1Ewn+xBh5YOL5jdvmVbaV8bWij1zm3TYrjyidKZcB9rz5gFPcUZHVsXGolHNPns=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jwy93-0007YK-T2; Sun, 19 Jul 2020 03:29:42 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <87y2poqehh.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2020 03:29:37 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Wed, 20 May 2020 23:45:32 -0400") Message-ID: <874kq4wav2.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Richard Stallman writes: > It seems to me that the requirement for a secret key in a user program > is fundamentally incompatible with free software. A free system > cannot keep secrets from the user. However, if Google is wi [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Richard Stallman writes: > It seems to me that the requirement for a secret key in a user program > is fundamentally incompatible with free software. A free system > cannot keep secrets from the user. However, if Google is willing to > leave a space to use free clients, something could be worked out. At present, there doesn't seem to be any way to follow Google's explicit instructions as to how OAuth 2.0 support should be done in free software -- even if they tacitly are saying through unofficial channels "but we don't really mean it" by saying that Thunderbird is still working. So I'm closing this bug report, as this isn't something that can be fixed here, but it something the FSF will have to negotiate with Google. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 18 21:29:56 2020 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jul 2020 01:29:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59604 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jwy9M-00011O-2W for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 18 Jul 2020 21:29:56 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:55524) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jwy9L-00010o-2j for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 18 Jul 2020 21:29:55 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=CXEOa3WVIWbqfWR6c0+zne6zZ057S9JZkCCUzPuT7tI=; b=NLZP6TQ8zFcrCvmlJAfra0/z+D KirIL8lI3xddNuEgjb7eAfNjuNXZvJNks7M/riUiTgj0H9P0XWHuBtRRDFWDc0zy7q2kEg7BCo2Ti UbChywgx08vwNupaIfBFXMACQB/TvcxK3t+ft3NC8hQdaAzQvPwiw8whds6yzh6eFE6s=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jwy9D-0007YW-Cq for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 Jul 2020 03:29:49 +0200 Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2020 03:29:46 +0200 Message-Id: <87365owaut.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #41386 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 41386 wontfix close 41386 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 41386 wontfix close 41386 quit From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2020 02:41:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Cc: fitzsim@fitzsim.org, stefan@marxist.se, 41386@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.15952128213704 (code B ref 41386); Mon, 20 Jul 2020 02:41:01 +0000 Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jul 2020 02:40:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33392 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jxLj2-0000xg-OU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 Jul 2020 22:40:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:54018) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jxLiy-0000xO-FU for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 Jul 2020 22:40:19 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:54904) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jxLis-0000lE-D2; Sun, 19 Jul 2020 22:40:10 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jxLio-0006UB-JQ; Sun, 19 Jul 2020 22:40:07 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: <874kq4wav2.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Sun, 19 Jul 2020 03:29:37 +0200) References: <87y2poqehh.fsf@gnus.org> <874kq4wav2.fsf@gnus.org> Message-Id: Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2020 22:40:06 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > So I'm closing this bug report, as this isn't something that can be > fixed here, but it something the FSF will have to negotiate with Google. I guess so -- if we can find someone there to talk with. Can someone find out whether Google still has a representative concerned with "open source"? -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 04:08:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix To: Thomas Fitzsimmons Cc: 41386@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.159547725829942 (code B ref 41386); Thu, 23 Jul 2020 04:08:02 +0000 Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Jul 2020 04:07:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43541 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jySW9-0007ms-Ru for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 23 Jul 2020 00:07:38 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:60970) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jySW8-0007mg-HU for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 23 Jul 2020 00:07:37 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:33967) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jySW3-0006fC-6d; Thu, 23 Jul 2020 00:07:31 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jySVw-0002Qc-Qv; Thu, 23 Jul 2020 00:07:26 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: (message from Thomas Fitzsimmons on Sat, 23 May 2020 11:49:34 -0400) References: Message-Id: Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 00:07:24 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] I got this information from someone who knows who says it is all from published information. Does this enable us to cope with Google's planned changes? ====================================================================== GNUS could follow the same process of the the maintainers of KMail to get approved: https://www.reddit.com/r/kde/comments/gi5bol/kmailkontact_oauth_signin_with_gmail_enabled_again/ This had nothing to do with shutting off access to free MUAs. It's a matter of hardening the security of GMail accounts and having all 3rd-party clients (free and non-free alike) publish a privacy policy where they describe their usage of the GMail APIs, as described in this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/kde/comments/cj7t7c/kmail_doesnt_let_me_sign_in_with_gmail/evchyih/ In particular: Google is not concerned with the legal "significance", they just care about the part about what features of their API we use and how, which seems to be incomplete, judging from the last email I got from them just yesterday, which is my responsibility to update, as I'm more or less the Google integration maintainer in PIM, since I wrote most of the stuff (silly me!) :D The implementation details for XOAUTH2 are here, along with sample code and links to the relevant RFCs: https://developers.google.com/gmail/imap/xoauth2-protocol -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 13:24:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix To: Richard Stallman Cc: Thomas Fitzsimmons , 41386@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.159551058527330 (code B ref 41386); Thu, 23 Jul 2020 13:24:02 +0000 Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Jul 2020 13:23:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44386 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jybBh-00076j-6j for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 23 Jul 2020 09:23:05 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:52422) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jybBe-00075o-PP for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 23 Jul 2020 09:23:03 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Q/3iFfQH4Mi61pGj+DxMaIfcf+XlliqKIJoVVpgOEuw=; b=bBt8G77EB6uUTXOuN7kXGpueZ+ uk70Of1wzBQNS1UhfHsBxtt4qO8GPAGt49ha6Gn6SsDv3MCoaQmoVR0luOSEZMHY0h2KdkY9Azw50 MJvtsNrAcwU3utdtZlB7l7tY8pwIdkllmlJqdDgcalweJ9N0k3VgH3PVACllOGk9LEcU=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jybBV-0005vd-6f; Thu, 23 Jul 2020 15:22:55 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 15:22:51 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Thu, 23 Jul 2020 00:07:24 -0400") Message-ID: <87v9ienz6c.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Richard Stallman writes: > I got this information from someone who knows > who says it is all from published information. > > Does this enable us to cope with Google's planned changes? > > ==================================== [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Richard Stallman writes: > I got this information from someone who knows > who says it is all from published information. > > Does this enable us to cope with Google's planned changes? > > ====================================================================== > GNUS could follow the same process of the the maintainers of KMail to > get approved: > > https://www.reddit.com/r/kde/comments/gi5bol/kmailkontact_oauth_signin_with_gmail_enabled_again/ The link doesn't same what the process is, so I don't know whether it enables us or not. In particular, it doesn't say anything about how the free software application is supposed to keep the secret keys secret, which is (of course) totally impossible for an application like Emacs. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 03:35:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Cc: fitzsim@fitzsim.org, 41386@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.15955616544230 (code B ref 41386); Fri, 24 Jul 2020 03:35:01 +0000 Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jul 2020 03:34:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46425 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jyoTO-00016A-GQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 23 Jul 2020 23:34:14 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39982) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jyoTL-00015r-QL for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 23 Jul 2020 23:34:12 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:58727) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jyoTG-00025n-2e; Thu, 23 Jul 2020 23:34:06 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jyoSh-0000o6-N0; Thu, 23 Jul 2020 23:33:31 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: <87v9ienz6c.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Thu, 23 Jul 2020 15:22:51 +0200) References: <87v9ienz6c.fsf@gnus.org> Message-Id: Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 23:33:31 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > The link doesn't same what the process is, so I don't know whether it > enables us or not. In particular, it doesn't say anything about how the > free software application is supposed to keep the secret keys secret, > which is (of course) totally impossible for an application like Emacs. Can you try contacting and asking the developers of Kmail about any points that are not clearly stated in what I sent you? -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 14:56:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix To: Richard Stallman Cc: fitzsim@fitzsim.org, 41386@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.159560250315900 (code B ref 41386); Fri, 24 Jul 2020 14:56:02 +0000 Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jul 2020 14:55:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48488 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jyz6E-00048M-Ri for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 10:55:03 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:37070) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jyz6C-00047g-Kg for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 10:55:01 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=wxqiZnXsiZ5dSU5c5LCGKVbKPKIgGZ3L7pdQokCWnmE=; b=s45zaHHVrAPZyDpO0Y+RfLaGQv k6r1hDH0x10YPTbS/m5PrYOt8I3i14ZNVqPEH6YqK5X0+la79Q1+cIBQgofzQp3o5RAQxQXZVKjd5 EzZk3GKfez1dNiSKphql7+989WqzmjkdHq05VZDYpTqHnI721WWcNR0mLBPVOFJIcWBo=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jyz62-0003Dw-DW; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 16:54:53 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <87v9ienz6c.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 16:54:49 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Thu, 23 Jul 2020 23:33:31 -0400") Message-ID: <878sf9c69y.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Richard Stallman writes: > > The link doesn't same what the process is, so I don't know whether it > > enables us or not. In particular, it doesn't say anything about how the > > free software application is supposed to keep [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Richard Stallman writes: > > The link doesn't same what the process is, so I don't know whether it > > enables us or not. In particular, it doesn't say anything about how the > > free software application is supposed to keep the secret keys secret, > > which is (of course) totally impossible for an application like Emacs. > > Can you try contacting and asking the developers of Kmail about any points > that are not clearly stated in what I sent you? If the Emacs maintainers wants to get involved with Google on this, that's fine by me. My stance is that Google is obviously not doing these changes on a good-faith basis, but as a long-term way to shut off all avenues of using Gmail without going through the official interface. So I'm not interested in spending any time on this. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 03:50:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Cc: fitzsim@fitzsim.org, 41386@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.159564896926804 (code B ref 41386); Sat, 25 Jul 2020 03:50:02 +0000 Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jul 2020 03:49:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49141 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jzBBg-0006yF-Ux for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 23:49:29 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:43798) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jzBBe-0006y2-Ez for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 23:49:28 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:38344) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jzBBY-000777-M3; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 23:49:20 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jzBBX-0007nJ-0s; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 23:49:19 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: <878sf9c69y.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Fri, 24 Jul 2020 16:54:49 +0200) References: <87v9ienz6c.fsf@gnus.org> <878sf9c69y.fsf@gnus.org> Message-Id: Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 23:49:19 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > If the Emacs maintainers wants to get involved with Google on this, > that's fine by me. Do you mean, that Eli or Stefan should address this problem in Gnus? I don't think we can possibly do anything on this. > My stance is that Google is obviously not doing > these changes on a good-faith basis, but as a long-term way to shut off > all avenues of using Gmail without going through the official interface. That doesn't seem to be what the Kmail developers think. Many Gnus users will be unhappy if it stops working with Gmail. -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 21:56:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix To: Richard Stallman Cc: fitzsim@fitzsim.org, 41386@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.159588693223908 (code B ref 41386); Mon, 27 Jul 2020 21:56:01 +0000 Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jul 2020 21:55:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55914 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k0B5n-0006DY-Lc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 17:55:31 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:55258) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k0B5m-0006DJ-DE for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 17:55:30 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=fUHOXroUlDQJgydr1GCGSpxBL05PfM+KWtMHfbH9x6k=; b=Rx+4fdgrBQEzaHQRwELz/Mv1l/ gMhjA9z+ZpZ8sJNrQrbJN+MhUlkFlCxs4ZCqg7RtmSfqZjj+Hb8XhvzQxhCsTuhXjBY+H05oiASU8 29B50RfeY/oL3GVajbbTZc716Z84F08g62SQiDG1ZnlMia0cgaTVxJHNRBwnqiptcgMU=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1k0B5d-0004z3-JC; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 23:55:24 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <87v9ienz6c.fsf@gnus.org> <878sf9c69y.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 23:55:20 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Fri, 24 Jul 2020 23:49:19 -0400") Message-ID: <871rkw62t3.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Richard Stallman writes: > > If the Emacs maintainers wants to get involved with Google on this, > > that's fine by me. > > Do you mean, that Eli or Stefan should address this problem in Gnus? > I don't think we can possibly [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Richard Stallman writes: > > If the Emacs maintainers wants to get involved with Google on this, > > that's fine by me. > > Do you mean, that Eli or Stefan should address this problem in Gnus? > I don't think we can possibly do anything on this. No, I don't expect them to implement this. But somebody has to open a developer account at Google and register the Emacs "application", and that has to be the FSF. They will then be able to generate the API secret key that will then be included, non-secretly, specifically countering the contract you enter into with Google, when you then publish it openly in the Emacs sources. > > My stance is that Google is obviously not doing > > these changes on a good-faith basis, but as a long-term way to shut off > > all avenues of using Gmail without going through the official interface. > > That doesn't seem to be what the Kmail developers think. > > Many Gnus users will be unhappy if it stops working with Gmail. Definitely. But it's not something I can help with. Blame Google. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: soyeomul@doraji.xyz (=?UTF-8?Q?=ED=99=A9=EB=B3=91=ED=9D=AC?=) Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 00:41:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Cc: fitzsim@fitzsim.org, Richard Stallman , 41386@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.159606960417589 (code B ref 41386); Thu, 30 Jul 2020 00:41:01 +0000 Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Jul 2020 00:40:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34040 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k0wc8-0004Zd-Kc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Jul 2020 20:40:04 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-f173.google.com ([209.85.215.173]:38044) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k0wc6-0004Z0-FL for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Jul 2020 20:40:03 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-f173.google.com with SMTP id e8so15493159pgc.5 for <41386@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 29 Jul 2020 17:40:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=doraji.xyz; s=yw; h=from:to:cc:subject:organization:references:face:message-id:date :in-reply-to:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ySfn1+97DYahlO23xDwnDyeCxCezv9CnJ6OCNtlrBTY=; b=fS105qa3FVcJrxblIFWDZ1qfzYEoS6INekgPNtzkeJSeAx+QvbaHckEbvKfnhK4SX1 2h3WIYfSAc0wrartY461CDRt2fHREYpq6J6dkRIG1f4z8zlYFTdJgM2vOjvCY3jBiDvD CsH3d8uHQbJN1MSE04gkgn8mPPF+vjcoCP6CbxZ0uCOyl4tYZTy/TwkgeTSNRxtbaGp9 FH2+kjDAX1hX1MKS5/M2CdNAGYVl3PjCCdW9+Zj9WYk2dOXAJXXjNEc7BdiZK6p7C87m fy1q5sUI4EqUsydayWyHyf5ixSxvJLI2oxPg5zy9DaU26pKRW5DLT8qHIXep0LqP3MgA t3ew== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:organization:references:face :message-id:date:in-reply-to:user-agent:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=ySfn1+97DYahlO23xDwnDyeCxCezv9CnJ6OCNtlrBTY=; b=uGRprSu60ZCPDbyKNAZOFCIJdBs0W1mxeL4ZmsIRV/fHmmHiq1RmKulxpJXkUJhYev lc+mC0FrMPX4wBVYGliKxRJhTjdw8+OG5zg3YXJFOQy4kF+7UDW1fi3JUP9Y48SfgiG3 XF7C3d7lejH686Pi4luf2UxFFJojB8DC5vYbs1CpI7O6VPlTOyLRMH3tM2TwkXvDzYLG 6AXRZAwQSdRcCLXBGNiA7QbTZZNQoXzw70tKDLb/eyWPxTs6t1oZxwD3g0MyfYRVpcLi 2UEpMhWYB11GrBSqgYD8fWhDw8lqDd3RN27KlwG/ia80UJrEwJa2Mt/R/cFikKZDEJt7 hf5g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531SfeQBujQC59S+msYgv3yuYDZbfIa3FxbvyGd5uQUPMqXBFO/n x0LjpaHY8bTV9e3BWoCPUgQaYA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJye1jeUzxpsbhKHz6KrAJ/F0RZbZ88Rryn+3DflHRKBwcdRh5Ju7sCGpLy8UUXLDoPMZ7pDeg== X-Received: by 2002:a63:31d1:: with SMTP id x200mr1699739pgx.209.1596069595835; Wed, 29 Jul 2020 17:39:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from delta.birch.chromebook ([211.228.200.237]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m6sm4033765pfk.36.2020.07.29.17.39.52 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Wed, 29 Jul 2020 17:39:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (nullmailer pid 1137 invoked by uid 1000); Thu, 30 Jul 2020 00:39:48 -0000 From: soyeomul@doraji.xyz (=?UTF-8?Q?=ED=99=A9=EB=B3=91=ED=9D=AC?=) Organization: =?UTF-8?Q?=E9=87=91=E9=99=B5?= (=?UTF-8?Q?=EC=97=B0=EC=9B=90=EC=9D=98_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=EB=A7=88=EC=9D=8C?=) References: <87v9ienz6c.fsf@gnus.org> <878sf9c69y.fsf@gnus.org> <871rkw62t3.fsf@gnus.org> Face: 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 Message-Id: X-Thanks-Workers: =?UTF-8?Q?=EC=9D=B4=EB=A7=88=EB=91=90,_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=EC=9D=B4=EC=88=9C=EC=8B=A0,_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=EC=A0=84=EB=AA=85=EC=88=99,_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=EC=A7=84=ED=91=9C=EC=9C=A8=EC=82=AC,_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=EA=B4=80=EC=9A=B4=EC=9E=A5,_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=EA=B0=95=ED=83=9C=EA=B3=B5?= X-Thanks-Today: =?UTF-8?Q?'=EC=83=81=EC=A0=9C=EA=BB=98=EC=84=9C=EB=8A=94_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=ED=95=AD=EC=83=81_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=EB=B0=A5=EC=95=8C_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=ED=95=98=EB=82=98=EB=9D=BC=EB=8F=84_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=EB=95=85=EC=97=90_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=EB=96=A8=EC=96=B4=EC=A7=80=EB=A9=B4_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=EA=B7=B8=EA=B2=83=EC=9D=84_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=EC=A3=BC=EC=9A=B0=EC=85=A8=EC=9C=BC=EB=A9=B0_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=E3=80=8C=EC=9E=A5=EC=B0=A8_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=EB=B0=A5=EC=9D=84_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=EC=B0=BE=EB=8A=94_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=EC=86=8C=EB=A6=AC=EA=B0=80_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=EA=B5=AC=EC=B2=9C=EC=97=90_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=EC=82=AC=EB=AC=B4=EC=B9=A0_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=EB=95=8C=EA=B0=80_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=EC=98=A4=EB=A6=AC=EB=8B=88_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=EC=96=B4=EC=B0=8C_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=EA=B2=BD=ED=99=80=ED=95=98=EA=B2=8C_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=EC=97=AC=EA=B8=B0=EB=A6=AC=EC=9A=94._?= =?UTF-8?Q?=ED=95=9C=EB=82=B1_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=EA=B3=A1=EC=8B=9D=EC=9D=B4=EB=9D=BC=EB=8F=84_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=ED=95=98=EB=8A=98=EC=9D=B4_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=EC=95=84?= =?UTF-8?Q?=EB=82=98=EB=8B=88=EB=9D=BC=E3=80=8D=ED=95=98=EC=85=A8=EB=8F=84=EB=8B=A4.'?= X-Thanks-Thanks-Thanks: =?UTF-8?Q?=EC=B2=9C=ED=95=98=EC=B0=BD=EC=83=9D=EC=9D=84_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=EB=8B=A4_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=EC=82=B4=EB=A6=AC=EC=8B=9C=EB=A0=A4=EB=8A=94_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=EB=A7=88=EC=9D=8C...^^^?= X-Thanks-Absolete-Coding-System: UTF-8 X-Operating-System: =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=89=AAding=E2=89=AB?= -- The Gnus X-Gnus-Motto: In a cloud bones of steel. X-Gnus-Desktop: GNOME ('Ubuntu', '18.04', 'bionic') Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 09:39:48 +0900 In-Reply-To: <871rkw62t3.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Mon, 27 Jul 2020 23:55:20 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) >> Many Gnus users will be unhappy if it stops working with Gmail. > > Definitely. But it's not something I can help with. Blame Google. I just myself mark as IMPORTANT this PR because i use Gmail + Google Apps. Sincerely, --=20 ^=EA=B3=A0=EB=A7=99=EC=8A=B5=EB=8B=88=EB=8B=A4 _=E6=95=91=E6=BF=9F=E8=92=BC= =E7=94=9F_ =EA=B0=90=EC=82=AC=ED=95=A9=EB=8B=88=EB=8B=A4_^))// From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 03:05:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Cc: fitzsim@fitzsim.org, 41386@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.159607828531597 (code B ref 41386); Thu, 30 Jul 2020 03:05:02 +0000 Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Jul 2020 03:04:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34099 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k0ys8-0008DZ-N8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Jul 2020 23:04:44 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:43150) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k0ys4-0008DK-Qm for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Jul 2020 23:04:43 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:58635) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k0yrz-0004XW-5h; Wed, 29 Jul 2020 23:04:35 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1k0yrq-0003hn-Lt; Wed, 29 Jul 2020 23:04:26 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: <871rkw62t3.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Mon, 27 Jul 2020 23:55:20 +0200) References: <87v9ienz6c.fsf@gnus.org> <878sf9c69y.fsf@gnus.org> <871rkw62t3.fsf@gnus.org> Message-Id: Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2020 23:04:26 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] Can someone please make contact with the Kmail developers so I can ask them for advice? -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: Simon Leinen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 16:14:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix To: Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , fitzsim@fitzsim.org, stefan@marxist.se, 41386@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.15970760113937 (code B ref 41386); Mon, 10 Aug 2020 16:14:01 +0000 Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Aug 2020 16:13:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37307 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k5AQU-00011R-QW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:13:31 -0400 Received: from mx1.switch.ch ([84.254.110.100]:59470) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k5AQS-00011G-7J for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:13:30 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: by SpamTitan at switch.ch DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=switch.ch; s=selector1; t=1597076005; bh=SrwzMDb+iZQ0+wrwhHkJLHqCqpECC/A6T9C6lrMwylY=; h=Date:From:To:CC:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=nsn/0wzxFS6r9/bItptJYRbqWanWwKPilZZfi3OiEC1f50Ss666bUVKc3hvSVhFOZ pP1YqA5X6nAFAMC6OfGZIcXOxXG5g75qWoOk9zhjEQ/hGK3wskBtzMax8u3xdnQFm2 zWCBUJ7DQEQZ1HYgxfbcPNYu55XLCR8d1ftrV2K0KpKImfSvh7D7LM+ao+4rXT5ml9 W2lv2G+SNbwH5xyg7lDyOWzthtztd2pw8c69x+enMwz+mQqPJjp+pQ02HiAtzN8rRF jN23posVscRnVrx4TTQf7JTAFMJhW43dtn+oiNrj19Fu6SLn7NDIXEkRu/Uz0BoIc0 3oZeHHdD1ai0A== Authentication-Results: mx1.switch.ch; x-trusted-ip=pass MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <24369.29208.686722.787243@switch.ch> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 18:13:12 +0200 From: Simon Leinen In-Reply-To: References: <87y2poqehh.fsf@gnus.org> <874kq4wav2.fsf@gnus.org> X-Mailer: VM 8.2.0b under 28.0.50 (x86_64-apple-darwin19.6.0) X-ClientProxiedBy: SWH-S05-EXC3.swd.switch.ch (172.16.60.14) To SWH-S04-EXC2.swd.switch.ch (172.16.60.12) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > I guess so -- if we can find someone there to talk with. Can > someone find out whether Google still has a representative concerned > with "open source"? I'd try Chris DiBona -- Simon. From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 03:29:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix To: Simon Leinen Cc: larsi@gnus.org, fitzsim@fitzsim.org, stefan@marxist.se, 41386@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.15971164947843 (code B ref 41386); Tue, 11 Aug 2020 03:29:02 +0000 Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Aug 2020 03:28:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38137 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k5KxS-00022R-5X for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 23:28:14 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:34804) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k5KxQ-00022D-0P for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 23:28:12 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:35537) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k5KxJ-0000mS-KC; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 23:28:05 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1k5KxG-0004fo-8x; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 23:28:02 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: <24369.29208.686722.787243@switch.ch> (message from Simon Leinen on Mon, 10 Aug 2020 18:13:12 +0200) References: <87y2poqehh.fsf@gnus.org> <874kq4wav2.fsf@gnus.org> <24369.29208.686722.787243@switch.ch> Message-Id: Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 23:28:02 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > Chris DiBona He was Google's "open source" person. Do you know whether he still is? I got an answer from a KDE developer, and with luck that should be enough. If it isn't, we can try DiBona. Thanks. -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: Simon Leinen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 20:57:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix To: Richard Stallman Cc: larsi@gnus.org, fitzsim@fitzsim.org, stefan@marxist.se, 41386@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.159717941829040 (code B ref 41386); Tue, 11 Aug 2020 20:57:01 +0000 Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Aug 2020 20:56:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41866 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k5bKM-0007YI-Al for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Aug 2020 16:56:58 -0400 Received: from mx1.switch.ch ([84.254.110.100]:43357) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k5bKJ-0007YA-Vz for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Aug 2020 16:56:57 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: by SpamTitan at switch.ch DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=switch.ch; s=selector1; t=1597179405; bh=VSC6o37D7YdM34x11cN1xC+6AluW9uVxh+2LdWrAsCs=; h=From:To:CC:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=RXJWE9G3DYW3cSRSeotTnRk9kiHHi7/EKJsplTNZlEb4rbLTuSDITpPEnQlxeJ8FT wCbkAAvHWq/OxdlLZbznCX7RWNHRqyQMlzQ6ZgqpEgEHLNGovR6r25kyXos36V2sro hH7++jbAL0c+QnqAmsYzMrjBNS8YQyFxIqmHRpkC9je7QGYwtBDuXNsDuTODdNwZRJ C/J2/6iGxHU1OEtWJbLAHbUVtA8nkaz7RmeTKB4xrwU0JMdwU/r2pNJKgzm6CvqZKL hfj+qVy1QFDbDo5JveUPnwzVEZNki8LP09F7m8I0zY3UxTS6UTI7CgeUKNRHctOu42 EOoKR0e9jkm3w== Authentication-Results: mx1.switch.ch; x-trusted-ip=pass From: Simon Leinen In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Mon, 10 Aug 2020 23:28:02 -0400") References: <87y2poqehh.fsf@gnus.org> <874kq4wav2.fsf@gnus.org> <24369.29208.686722.787243@switch.ch> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (darwin) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 22:56:33 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-ClientProxiedBy: SWH-S06-EXC4.swd.switch.ch (172.16.60.18) To SWH-S04-EXC2.swd.switch.ch (172.16.60.12) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> Chris DiBona > He was Google's "open source" person. Do you know whether he still is? His LinkedIn profile and Wikipedia page still list him as Director of Open Source at Google. Several years ago I talked with him about license options (specifically GPL variants) on Google's now-defunct source-code hosting service, and found him knowledgeable and willing to help. > I got an answer from a KDE developer, and with luck that should > be enough. If it isn't, we can try DiBona. Sounds good! All the best, -- Simon. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 29 11:41:35 2022 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Oct 2022 15:41:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36388 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oonxn-0004QV-MN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 29 Oct 2022 11:41:35 -0400 Received: from thaodan.de ([185.216.177.71]:47208) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oonxm-0004QJ-GR for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 29 Oct 2022 11:41:34 -0400 Received: from odin (dsl-trebng12-b04885-76.dhcp.inet.fi [176.72.133.76]) by thaodan.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 02881D08D6B for ; Sat, 29 Oct 2022 18:41:28 +0300 (EEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=thaodan.de; s=mail; t=1667058089; bh=ME4WhJzdLcIgBfTKMq+ASzj0NKOz80ql4YCdM0QZwAY=; h=From:To:Subject:Date; b=rtDyxcP5EVTukjZAHAoj63+WvliGOJxr6Gm6TQz2lq3mZIqta9q8ozefX1t2nseDt thzQDUAMbjZtBV4x4AOVPgXZgZQ433XK8q36btt8/2JUd+BszEyv7sRQWCCFo43yHS +WnU4r9XJsI1VYhIekTyORunxi54OIXNAglHThBqSVa/hMe1s8QtLmLvxqFAK14QSq Q7yt8b5Lf2Eo0qGun/7bwBaDJtx8j+IzKJ/fIEbYjNQNNEFkvJXasw0UVVimQNHvXE Ice0zvIQ3MRBswmyWPEY49S5BAeK+El+ite7FJ8xAQZla4P+FH3NE8OiaYI8M6K/LA vLyBPoM3HAiVTGkPoenNddfUYHOQFPH53J2+O2bsnNqSTf4xkMIuN440qUgybMaKl9 1HxgXHybWvCWCwyirF/3cHGUMrEPp/a/mnEZLG5TGFdju7k4/0FDxBJmpdkSl/a3lU 7wkHZsZf/C1A+PJNANsNwm5cog7yYXoM/sgwtnUKJyTwAuwgAJNrupZeVzno2kQhv/ zcE9hTojYUBMMxh5y6sFlApjHxLjMQyqH/7FUG3ok+tz2LR2fpxfFzko98PmtmoRmn lA92rzE7ijj86nHAzkVLAzUhny8Ee1SRbLTL2aUqr2bdZWKBRRnY9mu2q9cdhrunx2 yJGpcWpXCyyPfMWCMAGINDW0= From: =?utf-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn?= Bidar To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: unarchive 41386 Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2022 18:41:28 +0300 Message-ID: <87ilk2wsbb.fsf@thaodan.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) unarchive 41386 From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn?= Bidar Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2022 15:43:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix To: Thomas Fitzsimmons Cc: 41386@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.166705812817108 (code B ref 41386); Sat, 29 Oct 2022 15:43:02 +0000 Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Oct 2022 15:42:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36394 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oonyK-0004Rr-1M for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 29 Oct 2022 11:42:08 -0400 Received: from thaodan.de ([185.216.177.71]:47210) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oonyH-0004R4-Rb for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 29 Oct 2022 11:42:06 -0400 Received: from odin (dsl-trebng12-b04885-76.dhcp.inet.fi [176.72.133.76]) by thaodan.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DF7E4D08D6B; Sat, 29 Oct 2022 18:41:59 +0300 (EEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=thaodan.de; s=mail; t=1667058120; bh=rpiwsBN1Vx8+K0Gqs0E/+NFTHqi8C1brgH6sEYUxuC8=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Date:References; b=nkyG5N/1HX+Nzu10JS5SmjS1x99tc/atc1dEEfRdYFuVmPbbLLmJzdBSCAJnig/PM bwFet5dS0lgfxES4SmnTTE8LDxHKmd+7vMX1NXEI9V1X5ZYzU8jvlOZ9rG0gzGW0KK zNpX1u9UIQg10iNhF65ZXZW91ZRxl952lJKsbMEVmUvEp58ZIbbO7tZv8r988X3EHq 6PMayxSyeL7rHUKNuXVfQ+R/BslNdQOGIh2KqGYRxLL+kklPeix2pwhDBtAjcMO9gN TlbcxR3Ya5DhEH13gPirgUrKrj6C44ELNoB8QTWFBTYgiugtgawpys4zdKiIPeSEaS RJbuIzFcQtoKonkROZ7XjJn9bBEHTi2EF3YlATk17VttNrjviY9BGxWCUN2l0xoSf0 KXDcKRmAhve83DBK9+iAve7TILZWptK6MrUXc+bC/DnfU9xdNcl+UXxMHg0c2IUvVX Vk7Rb+2yh5s9HAi8DHxsKVIzFtKTBSUWBcumH9VtGbARK0hgqtn4Aew1z3urUvdWD9 iFp+pODPGAvRY4ZASpetiias4pLbDre4i/50YcPTdLYpPNsGMG6PF7nbmi5jwz43me Obq5gC64qlim0tqt9QVx2/M5B6hFnG/D4+qPfmcsq05Nrr/whRxNJSQo0LfeU9bjVD oskXdJL2GUhW/3XsGbwkUTYk= From: =?UTF-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn?= Bidar In-Reply-To: (Thomas Fitzsimmons's message of "Mon, 18 May 2020 22:05:04 -0400") Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2022 18:36:41 +0300 References: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Message-ID: <87czaawsag.fsf@thaodan.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) I know this bug is marked as wontfix however more and more providers are moving to Oauth2, even those that use plain standards like imap/{cal,card}dav/smpt, thous increasing the importance of Oauth2 support in Gnus. The main advantage I see is that oauth allows for two factor authentication and the invalidation of the "password" that the app stores. The password or token that the app has usually only lasts for a duration of time and can be invalidated if needed. Like if the person no loner works for the employer or the device has been stolen. Some providers like Microsoft require it next year and the employer can already enforce the use of Oauth2 [1]. The argument "just use another email provider" doesn't really work in such cases. SailfishOS recently addeded oauth2 support for Microsoft Oauth and KDE also does support it[2]. In the case of Microsoft there are no "secrets" that can be stored publicly= just the application id[3]. Without proper OAuth2 support there is no use for Gnus for such users, except to try third party solutions that can help. On Elpa there's oauth2.el which provides Oauth2 support for Emacs. There are externals who implemented oauth for Gmail[4] and Microsoft 365[5] through the use of oauth2.el. However these don't handle the oauth workflow of acquiring the token. It is possible to try to do that inside emacs or use an external browser and then catch the response or make the user copy the response address into Emacs. The main issue to implement this I think is to have an official "appid" for Emacs and add the Oauth2 workflow. I don't know about google right now but for Microsoft 365 this seams feasible as there's just an appid that can be stored publicly.=20 Br, Bj=C3=B6rn Bidar --- [1] https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/exchange-team-blog/improving-sec= urity-together/ba-p/805892 [2] https://invent.kde.org/pim/kdepim-runtime/-/tree/master/resources/ews/e= wsclient/auth [3] https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/active-directory/develop/v2-oau= th2-auth-code-flow [4] https://github.com/ggervasio/gnus-gmail-oauth/ [5] https://gitlab.com/Binary-Eater/gnus-o365-oauth2/-/tree/master From unknown Sat Jun 14 03:55:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Resent-From: Deus Max Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2022 12:23:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix To: 41386@debbugs.gnu.org Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn?= Bidar , Thomas Fitzsimmons Reply-To: Dias Badekas Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.166713256527985 (code B ref 41386); Sun, 30 Oct 2022 12:23:01 +0000 Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Oct 2022 12:22:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37466 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1op7Ku-0007HJ-QC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 30 Oct 2022 08:22:45 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.15]:35713) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1op7Ks-0007H6-TV for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 30 Oct 2022 08:22:43 -0400 Received: from aceraspire5 ([141.237.3.156]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.184]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1M9FjR-1ojMJL0Aj9-006MFt; Sun, 30 Oct 2022 13:22:32 +0100 From: Deus Max In-Reply-To: <87czaawsag.fsf@thaodan.de> ("=?UTF-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn?= Bidar via \"Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors\""'s message of "Sat, 29 Oct 2022 18:36:41 +0300") References: <87czaawsag.fsf@thaodan.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2022 14:22:24 +0200 Message-ID: <87v8o1tsan.fsf@aia00820.aia.gr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:d9s7/Qgd8ekAQ/Iu2De5otIGYl/4k5cXFuF0TgEpV0EJIKBzIIs 7bNBmxJvC843DhU0BmnXkASyoScUfvKNWyR+J+/gt0eraHGZTtC66dPBugzcj+F07mSxHG0 HxHK29gOaR5PiygNGw3ne5thzwx2hNUt9csBBpy45vy7t9QvDv+IOTxdZ7qdqF95eWaQqDA fgxG1tPJeKo+F+KxVHvwA== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:yjL1/Rt7mE0=;3voaIciYaK2WI/XCFVdlryhuOm5 TL+5vhGQItQwTurNg9Esr4rentHAI3hRc7G3Y8USHMD3BLD12Y4BuW9DNCgWm68dGNdm4oK/1 QI10jAkvSZ7RAIHoUl1gRtIsRrfGcpMoIUfCB9zHvQ+09+LOy4uYlQWSZ9T1UG0WR7YZmpFq+ 752FUu1WtaQUDqfzmB0NkqBAzFxfssE7WhNTtG+RKrfedfmrH5urxM5f7g9BNq42bKs3GgymY J6GNFoPXkGwe5NzjraORNeVm9kiJvxJiIDbowssWUe/xTTJ5D0TyyvHuILBntArm95ecd7EJA 8+Vk3NRGr0Af7lTD3hkOst4hNNneu2FoTAJmGEiZTYe8iFR47MID2A2+y8tJTX7IFhuG/S/vS aPZ5CDwL7tSsrbsOTiKxw9VguOK/XjsfGXtHl7AUaAfaMsPwBrdJpxM9OP79T+F4MG2mCHryv /g1OyFfFV4UAbd0VFnehHIqCVEt23AZHC0556wv9TW8iEUp74gfMASq4abk9/1ow7IdzRlMxE 9OE+3poUNwfZVteXXCfpbbtTZAZHLJasobc9+86lUeOBcQsnc0FR1rTmqBO1ba8o44JXTj3cI oz9PSIL0d5tjL39ikG6hSisw93Oxt0ZkLIIGWdtkXhBjkX2VnaQCE0CygQVKYlRGVYqh3eiXn JEijMXVKgANL/s4tlWGsKn1sB6k4l5A6aFPoCQ2EZxBGNV5e/jGwttBNTAD6XNgXcVt9HAH+X 7bNJ44wc/HP24G8xjza2WY510XQ854NfHGnuN8GIGAk6vm6749Ss3Aez02AIk3KW/eIB+nAWi nlf76gxgOWE0czYoYc1fh0hLLoDQ1Es302W/SdD+mIUjGB8AIX26I/fzM/JeRfkBr1awWd54a PQeALOO3RNjORkzh9E8T3GKGYGNBnHoGQseXc7S4MHEeA80feAjHBVIoYu98hvzCrQEJtz2cp 6b0e+H2PsoXrRcwimlx2h3DgCLQ= X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Sat, Oct 29 2022, Bj=C3=B6rn Bidar via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the S= wiss army knife of text editors" wrote: > I know this bug is marked as wontfix however more and more providers are > moving to Oauth2, even those that use plain standards like > imap/{cal,card}dav/smpt, thous increasing the importance of Oauth2 > support in Gnus. > Ditto. OAuth2 authentication is now needed, not just nice to have. Please re-open ticket. =20=20=20 > Some providers like Microsoft require it next year and the employer > can already enforce the use of Oauth2 [1]. > The argument "just use another email provider" doesn't really work in > such cases. Microsoft disabled Basic Authentication for POP, IMAP and other protocols on Oct. 01, 2022. As you may know, a lot of work places use office365. https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook_com/forum/all/imap-password-not= -working/d4432df0-f7ea-42b7-90e7-2cf1e0e02e4a My understanding from reading M$ documentation is that now OAuth2 is the only method for a client to connect to office365 IMAP. Correct me please if I'm wrong. > > Without proper OAuth2 support there is no use for Gnus for such users, > except to try third party solutions that can help. > Sadly true.