From unknown Thu Sep 11 23:47:56 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#41097 <41097@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#41097 <41097@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy Reply-To: bug#41097 <41097@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2025 06:47:56 +0000 retitle 41097 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy reassign 41097 emacs submitter 41097 Jean Louis severity 41097 minor thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 05 11:34:15 2020 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 May 2020 15:34:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37143 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jVzaI-0001qH-Qc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 May 2020 11:34:15 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:43268) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jVz5o-00011h-72 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 May 2020 11:02:44 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40130) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jVz5n-0002vX-Vb for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 05 May 2020 11:02:44 -0400 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:52427) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jVz5l-0007SC-BN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 05 May 2020 11:02:43 -0400 Received: from protected.rcdrun.com ([::ffff:41.210.145.184]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1) by stw1.rcdrun.com with UTF8ESMTPSA id 00000000002D6945.000000005EB17FEB.00001E40; Tue, 05 May 2020 08:02:02 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (uid 1001) by protected.rcdrun.com with local id 00000000000C2350.000000005EB17FE4.0000206B; Tue, 05 May 2020 17:01:56 +0200 From: Jean Louis To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy X-Hashcash: 1:20:200505:bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org::NG/KyV6xtZ+pPjp+:00000000000000000000000000000000000000003rIH Date: Tue, 05 May 2020 18:01:51 +0300 Message-ID: <861rnybf34.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=admin@protected.rcdrun.com; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/05 11:02:07 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.1 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 05 May 2020 11:34:14 -0400 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) I have observed that after the copy of files from one window to another, the `t' for (dired-toggle-marks) is not working in that other window, where files are copied. If I kill the window, and enter into the directory again, than `t' for (dired-toggle-marks) starts working again. However, it is a bug. In GNU Emacs 28.0.50 (build 8, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit, cairo version 1.14.8, Xaw3d scroll bars) of 2020-04-23 built on protected.rcdrun.com Repository revision: 7b15cc3ebb45e50ac5faf3bbc2a813afffdaa418 Repository branch: master Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11907000 System Description: Hyperbola GNU/Linux-libre Recent messages: Copy: 3 files done Quit Making completion list... Quit is undefined Mark set [2 times] Quit Type "q" in help window to restore its previous buffer. is undefined Mark set Configured using: 'configure --prefix=/package/text/emacs-2020-04-23 --with-modules --without-gpm --with-x-toolkit=lucid' Configured features: XAW3D XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG CAIRO SOUND DBUS GSETTINGS GLIB NOTIFY INOTIFY ACL GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE HARFBUZZ M17N_FLT LIBOTF ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS LUCID X11 XDBE XIM MODULES THREADS JSON PDUMPER LCMS2 GMP Important settings: value of $LC_ALL: de_DE.UTF-8 value of $LANG: de_DE.UTF-8 locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix Major mode: Dired by name Minor modes in effect: tooltip-mode: t global-eldoc-mode: t electric-indent-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t tool-bar-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t blink-cursor-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t buffer-read-only: t line-number-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t Load-path shadows: None found. Features: (shadow sort hashcash mail-extr help-fns radix-tree help-mode emacsbug message rmc puny format-spec rfc822 mml easymenu mml-sec password-cache epa derived epg epg-config gnus-util rmail rmail-loaddefs text-property-search time-date subr-x seq byte-opt gv bytecomp byte-compile cconv mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mm-util mail-prsvr mail-utils dired-aux cl-loaddefs cl-lib dired dired-loaddefs tooltip eldoc electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel term/x-win x-win term/common-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode elisp-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page tab-bar menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core term/tty-colors frame minibuffer cl-generic cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese composite charscript charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev obarray cl-preloaded nadvice loaddefs button faces cus-face macroexp files text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote threads dbusbind inotify lcms2 dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting cairo x-toolkit x multi-tty make-network-process emacs) Memory information: ((conses 16 51342 8472) (symbols 48 6377 1) (strings 32 17879 1682) (string-bytes 1 572018) (vectors 16 10849) (vector-slots 8 141765 12582) (floats 8 30 128) (intervals 56 609 0) (buffers 992 17)) -- Thanks, Jean Louis From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed May 06 10:05:28 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 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Wed, 6 May 2020 14:05:15 +0000 Received: from VI1PR06MB4526.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7e08::41) by AM5EUR03FT045.mail.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7e08::361) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2979.27 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 6 May 2020 14:05:15 +0000 X-IncomingTopHeaderMarker: OriginalChecksum:C4CCBC3E636227E4C525F0C62F378102330831C0E77E96A533C3682BEB091B8A; UpperCasedChecksum:01078CC41DD486A6B687A396DC4FF161C8CA7A2D162A1C9D7B208904FE1C8CB1; SizeAsReceived:7522; Count:48 Received: from VI1PR06MB4526.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::49f0:2314:a959:bec5]) by VI1PR06MB4526.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::49f0:2314:a959:bec5%7]) with mapi id 15.20.2958.030; Wed, 6 May 2020 14:05:15 +0000 From: Arthur Miller To: Jean Louis Subject: Re: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy References: <861rnybf34.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> Date: Wed, 06 May 2020 16:05:12 +0200 In-Reply-To: <861rnybf34.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> (Jean Louis's message of "Tue, 05 May 2020 18:01:51 +0300") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Content-Type: text/plain X-ClientProxiedBy: AM6P195CA0070.EURP195.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:209:87::47) To VI1PR06MB4526.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:803:ac::17) X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <874kst40rr.fsf@live.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Received: from pascal.homepc (90.230.29.56) by AM6P195CA0070.EURP195.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:209:87::47) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2979.27 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 6 May 2020 14:05:14 +0000 X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <874kst40rr.fsf@live.com> X-TMN: [M9AYr0Iv9/e1p3j2/Rcyr63Kjt3d+oSl] X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-IncomingHeaderCount: 48 X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 21fee28f-e285-45ed-8de4-08d7f1c67f9d X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: AM5EUR03HT049: X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: UX+y+PSzQH7Jf7rSlc2A03a1RfhBCvFIuJgagrCVFizD8aNRm48LSIg5njgzDStrcbcKGM4FlrQFvMQG1MtuPL9FXfxF2PRyYH1KZ8PnmWsQjf4D5W36Fpn5ucOcTgDIM7uGAH6dj5MUCXVcLUUtmpUxF1wKqQpI3DKVrtJ2UJBbkD4KeCyFpmSF5jATEAaEJR7JXq8jptJcOpmRMuf3RQ== X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:0; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:VI1PR06MB4526.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:; DIR:OUT; SFP:1901; X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData: VGjO1g7qBGWyzkivUyrHPTgEAL0iKbAUiiGE731vHvchSqfgzbCwJo6qup7pgpumFxD0wuBxtBzFMdeE5eHBcOuviz1S1WRQIlh2fttgq+PtYQLYYdDIfRA0LtqXvkYdoc/3rXwCKyPL+/1xcdvIiQ== X-OriginatorOrg: live.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 21fee28f-e285-45ed-8de4-08d7f1c67f9d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 May 2020 14:05:15.0970 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM5EUR03HT049 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 Cc: 41097@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Jean Louis writes: > I have observed that after the copy of files from one window to another, > the `t' for (dired-toggle-marks) is not working in that other window, > where files are copied. > > If I kill the window, and enter into the directory again, than `t' for > (dired-toggle-marks) starts working again. > > However, it is a bug. I have 28.0.50 built on 27. april, and it works just fine for me. I use Dired every day as my only file-manager. I just tested, and toggle worked fine after copying a file between two directories (same drive and partition). Marks on files are also preserved in other window after the copy operation. I don't know if it helps. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed May 06 11:24:07 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 May 2020 15:24:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40868 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jWLu3-0003x7-2C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 May 2020 11:24:07 -0400 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:58523) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jWLKA-00032c-W5 for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 May 2020 10:47:03 -0400 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:41.210.145.176]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 00000000002D4966.000000005EB2CDDD.00002CE0; Wed, 06 May 2020 07:46:53 -0700 Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 17:44:23 +0300 From: Jean Louis To: Arthur Miller Subject: Re: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy Message-ID: <20200506144423.GW24998@protected.rcdrun.com> References: <861rnybf34.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.13.5 (2020-03-28) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 06 May 2020 11:24:06 -0400 Cc: 41097@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) * Arthur Miller [2020-05-06 17:05]: > Jean Louis writes: > > > I have observed that after the copy of files from one window to another, > > the `t' for (dired-toggle-marks) is not working in that other window, > > where files are copied. > > > > If I kill the window, and enter into the directory again, than `t' for > > (dired-toggle-marks) starts working again. > > > > However, it is a bug. > > I have 28.0.50 built on 27. april, and it works just fine for me. I use > Dired every day as my only file-manager. I just tested, and toggle > worked fine after copying a file between two directories (same drive and > partition). Marks on files are also preserved in other window after the > copy operation. I don't know if it helps. With emacs -Q open dired, make one empty directory in other window, mark file in first one, use C to copy to other, in the other window t does not work to toggle marked files. Jean From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 08 05:06:08 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 May 2020 09:06:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44588 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jWyxM-000199-9b for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 May 2020 05:06:08 -0400 Received: from mail-oln040092064070.outbound.protection.outlook.com ([40.92.64.70]:41478 helo=EUR01-DB5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jWyxK-00018e-Iw for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 May 2020 05:06:07 -0400 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=lQpn1Rc8Ce5eBRI4RKNpZkp4sT3RR0jXLc7oEvfk8cPKWSk1GLt88Zk9dcgeQDd0WxXajoTULfaeacPlszd5puG6yfwm4j+cEGFNVbsmHOvvPoS5o1LCDn/Hfpwu9P8UhsqOCuYQ0u3yHA1kZynOV/Lz9gz+hscZ/nGjvQAXhLVz6dLYljYmSuJbxu9nIDikh1gsffFyqKu4EGRuplIWOn6xRiEBHXUHF4tyDcezgv78AWHwWk/mqwtvpRMu7MEh2uu4Fg4BVdkKOWpjzpe7v1HAJZ5fuerE7mRR4QrxRZNCvoBM2kaXPnZ/jQpxtLMuMmeQFS7b2hnZt+FNZvIAqQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; 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Fri, 8 May 2020 09:06:00 +0000 Received: from VI1PR06MB4526.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7e18::40) by HE1EUR01FT006.mail.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7e18::484) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2979.27 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 8 May 2020 09:05:59 +0000 X-IncomingTopHeaderMarker: OriginalChecksum:A706A24732DF2829601E0D8F90D9362CAAC3B72A844A341CC4D1BB3B3AA04971; UpperCasedChecksum:61F60275264839ABB724212C093EF104621C5A43974EBFAC376B550AB4EDDE0A; SizeAsReceived:7631; Count:48 Received: from VI1PR06MB4526.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::49f0:2314:a959:bec5]) by VI1PR06MB4526.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::49f0:2314:a959:bec5%7]) with mapi id 15.20.2979.030; Fri, 8 May 2020 09:05:59 +0000 From: Arthur Miller To: Jean Louis Subject: Re: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy References: <861rnybf34.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200506144423.GW24998@protected.rcdrun.com> Date: Fri, 08 May 2020 11:05:57 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20200506144423.GW24998@protected.rcdrun.com> (Jean Louis's message of "Wed, 6 May 2020 17:44:23 +0300") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Content-Type: text/plain X-ClientProxiedBy: AM5PR04CA0008.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:206:1::21) To VI1PR06MB4526.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:803:ac::17) X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <87o8qyhk3u.fsf@live.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Received: from pascal.homepc (90.230.29.56) by AM5PR04CA0008.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:206:1::21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2979.28 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 8 May 2020 09:05:58 +0000 X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <87o8qyhk3u.fsf@live.com> X-TMN: [hq8L2zJQZTpV0Caicf7qJkhC9zLZZ4dD] X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-IncomingHeaderCount: 48 X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 1d5a6a90-c100-4aa3-7063-08d7f32f062c X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: HE1EUR01HT219: X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: 35AF2n333IKGZ3M6fHCkribktQri9WpcaW4EJrMhIRvVBHPFM8iHNJCfryIlU3fhDCQNBRp01XfvRGqGt1bdDdf29JnBOqUbl8lDYYiu63TaKMAtxqE6aIvpMt74J97+NRQ6PKEpt9x7FoNurxmcY87pbRkXB3gRQ0GbjK57jJCsb1jFRs/9tQAetey7akFM85k4WoGQtWZxJnufzpObew== X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:0; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:VI1PR06MB4526.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:; DIR:OUT; SFP:1901; X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData: qNumNtUKsLC5OSuO/HCb9G9Yrux4k6KyFLXA6ROCJKjF2iP73aeA90brt/oDnt5sd1vH2w+LzrSqXUGtm+aUEzvwrV1DGA6JOdIRMUvFdgyi6ndAuIe88uKqpcdoKPiU8KaqHb5hlzATPIwExeZSUQ== X-OriginatorOrg: live.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 1d5a6a90-c100-4aa3-7063-08d7f32f062c X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 May 2020 09:05:59.6128 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1EUR01HT219 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 Cc: 41097@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Jean Louis writes: > * Arthur Miller [2020-05-06 17:05]: >> Jean Louis writes: >> >> > I have observed that after the copy of files from one window to another, >> > the `t' for (dired-toggle-marks) is not working in that other window, >> > where files are copied. >> > >> > If I kill the window, and enter into the directory again, than `t' for >> > (dired-toggle-marks) starts working again. >> > >> > However, it is a bug. >> >> I have 28.0.50 built on 27. april, and it works just fine for me. I use >> Dired every day as my only file-manager. I just tested, and toggle >> worked fine after copying a file between two directories (same drive and >> partition). Marks on files are also preserved in other window after the >> copy operation. I don't know if it helps. > > With emacs -Q open dired, make one empty directory in other window, > mark file in first one, use C to copy to other, in the other window t > does not work to toggle marked files. > > Jean I didn what you said, but it worked fine for me. One remark is that I don't see any pre-configured shortcut to use with C-x 4 (operations on other window), so I created directory and switched to other window. Besides that, I did what you said and it worked fine in my Emacs started with -Q flag. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 08 11:21:22 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 May 2020 15:21:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46115 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jX4oT-0004YC-UO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 May 2020 11:21:22 -0400 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:44877) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jX4Ke-0003kG-04 for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 May 2020 10:50:32 -0400 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:41.210.155.213]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 00000000002F286C.000000005EB570A5.00001922; Fri, 08 May 2020 07:43:20 -0700 Date: Fri, 8 May 2020 16:29:24 +0300 From: Jean Louis To: Arthur Miller Subject: Re: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy Message-ID: <20200508132924.GI14650@protected.rcdrun.com> References: <861rnybf34.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200506144423.GW24998@protected.rcdrun.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.14.0 (2020-05-02) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 08 May 2020 11:21:21 -0400 Cc: 41097@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) * Arthur Miller [2020-05-08 12:06]: > I didn what you said, but it worked fine for me. > > One remark is that I don't see any pre-configured shortcut to use with > C-x 4 (operations on other window), so I created directory and switched > to other window. Besides that, I did what you said and it worked fine in > my Emacs started with -Q flag. Ask somebody else to try. I am using latest git version from Emacs. emacs -Q C-x C-f to /tmp directory C-x 3 to make 2 windows vertical in other directory, make new directory like /tmp/new create file in /tmp or choose any file with m, marking it use C to copy to /tmp/new C-x o to other window where file is copied, it has C mark press t to toggle, it is not working Compare it maybe to my lossage. I cannot know why is it happening and if you are doing something different. My lossage; C-x C-f ;; find-file C-a ;; move-beginning-of-line C-d ;; delete-char ;; minibuffer-complete-and-exit C-x 3 ;; split-window-right C-x o ;; other-window C-n ;; dired-next-line C-n ;; dired-next-line C-n ;; dired-next-line C-n ;; dired-next-line C-n ;; dired-next-line C-n ;; dired-next-line ;; dired-find-file C-x o ;; other-window C-x o ;; other-window d ;; dired-flag-file-deletion x ;; dired-do-flagged-delete y ;; self-insert-command e ;; self-insert-command s ;; self-insert-command ;; exit-minibuffer C-x o ;; other-window n ;; dired-next-line n ;; dired-next-line n ;; dired-next-line n ;; dired-next-line n ;; dired-next-line n ;; dired-next-line n ;; dired-next-line m ;; dired-mark C ;; dired-do-copy ;; exit-minibuffer C ;; dired-do-copy n ;; self-insert-command e ;; self-insert-command ;; minibuffer-complete ;; exit-minibuffer C-x o ;; other-window t ;; dired-toggle-marks ;; indent-for-tab-command C-e ;; move-end-of-line t ;; dired-toggle-marks t ;; dired-toggle-marks t ;; dired-toggle-marks t ;; dired-toggle-marks t ;; dired-toggle-marks M-x ;; execute-extended-command v ;; self-insert-command i ;; self-insert-command e ;; self-insert-command w ;; self-insert-command l ;; self-insert-command ;; delete-backward-char - ;; self-insert-command l ;; self-insert-command o ;; self-insert-command s ;; self-insert-command ;; minibuffer-complete ;; minibuffer-complete-and-exit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 08 20:26:28 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 May 2020 00:26:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46493 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXDK0-000638-LM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 May 2020 20:26:28 -0400 Received: from mout.web.de ([217.72.192.78]:46307) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXDJy-00062w-JC for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 May 2020 20:26:27 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=dbaedf251592; t=1588983946; bh=yjo57MtX4GkYX4DD440ieAx6bPmHNuH7J9WY7h8ezY4=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=jOsmVDR4rACduTBUhRZQVH6Zk8RBPN21LCZUyoTnTDSY6a+vJBUWt+D5otlRnGVxX gIS2dbVnIgqHf73q42qAYqCNSAgm045F8R1FCfmghn0ATB8s5fWWuJhd5BbGUN5Ste MNKjn3aFdXrcmtj3mNFbKEsZW8hSocsbixY4PlcY= X-UI-Sender-Class: c548c8c5-30a9-4db5-a2e7-cb6cb037b8f9 Received: from drachen.dragon ([188.110.141.58]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb103 [213.165.67.124]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0M4I2R-1jFgcr2RUZ-00rrCy; Sat, 09 May 2020 02:25:46 +0200 From: Michael Heerdegen To: Jean Louis Subject: Re: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy References: <861rnybf34.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200506144423.GW24998@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200508132924.GI14650@protected.rcdrun.com> Date: Sat, 09 May 2020 02:25:45 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20200508132924.GI14650@protected.rcdrun.com> (Jean Louis's message of "Fri, 8 May 2020 16:29:24 +0300") Message-ID: <87r1vukl86.fsf@web.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:UFfemWHI4SrQ/5r+epJQLspWWeTZ8m93FZSRYuTB4Z6vtd2G0zW ylUhKGmShLbV4YlhA1EDk2kOEUvdW5INbswHxLGcH0glyM8QiE8qxTDM/SEcy4nwHrjEedr 97R3q0K8hgr0zOAf30Edq+F90lIBq5hpLQ9t1jyyea/N+3eHEB0O5HX6idTQj1JbBhOde0S WSXWcA+IeuCsOcxIAMM7A== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:VjMVnmp4taw=:PY//MDAhWETbwARC1QHgT3 JFow2KyN8odWdWjddA+Cd072PINiCcfzFsnXuxpZkUfL+sJ6oNAOEvHIXo1iUl+qzlgh/mbOY SOIi5YLdhpPyIrUQVlVb2xHUzHVSNLgMZHN6QJBW/HyK/2SoTa0xMlpkdJ+VHU3vk8Qb6f9NY Xi3kX+9WJndshRBrQ+OkM4NA7LIkOJaIG6fHpS196/LaDBx7yOlZ1/NDhwTKsQh4MPfn3tYDE x5l6j6VS2lZVy4h3yiB/qWL5Ipgh8DCrl6TrLh8J300VGnK393yOTR15B6QGGcRJb3BISZKfV GTtVyVZM4Kz1XCe8iaYDwLUJAwsO//AbA9uFeXjimN6alIJMDIBHzYtZIgXn0d1lWT48fCf4K XLpV/PiEEIclXHGRUaiV5KPsUjcCwQhp4+NSQasA1Rr/IpaTd60RH/1bDyNegqWY89rXb/3uU vJ9C/rUbglY1h+zIcnh4HQ6NPcSoagTkWXuMnzIsCCia1w5Hr6n7Yye5267is7aUeOvybx2S6 xYpnktlF1n4dpz6eJEJP/SBj7apJNJ2JvKG5peBB14+NZgKnaPs/6ZW9bFut8HW2f/Q4YSPWg 3wV/qRWzrqjHmmY8kJ7OS7+5Z7rFjYjWvp4xnJmViK1ivZIng5BS+5V+KTccS9HEuZcl0NszD MZR5Wxn3dOr9ApMrjMGYedfQdVVd+AahDcecntwW1Fi9IU08OgB0XMvMhJP7aE2/oMcX957uw hG1RGHAPLBIhpoap1ss77B3/bukMH6O/LvvmkUVCL2Pl+8SEnaGr91uQhN62dqctpYUx8czWz I6L+05cAND60GVwyQSbutXAgrghbWtv1aMpM+9UCQBr3B9XH9BJY8ObY4SHHGvgvKO4LXum5D TbuIQ4k2sZnjDWBk4FIRDXv+W6GfIa5CpfZ5/YO8q0yuMODotekwKNgiqjb3eRjnsSmX1iQgh srAAbMZOUukhH/rPuB8+aqNwP/foyxkoBiPhqZj/FPIEcOtFrL0C9G5sf0FbvTBASknCZs6Az NBQqVxKlTj7+MTRl64GopTmKecFb8S7WyOYq/O0a60kLKxCP+I9l2MmK5hH/1MCd9ZnryPs5c agbfwl7pFcDZ07vIUGArY4eQ7rYpSNUyx2IE/Ni5k/qbzGxWyuRbwkrU7sMbmRvNvjdx0nrd0 v4xCncbGl6tIW66/nTsZWsg8fTywWaDUvAV+Y/m+KvIeS0gRLU9OU2MEjPOI36aYD/vb5+5x6 Se+idY/G0DRsAcj1V X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 Cc: 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, Arthur Miller X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Jean Louis writes: > emacs -Q > > C-x C-f to /tmp directory > C-x 3 to make 2 windows vertical > in other directory, make new directory like /tmp/new > create file in /tmp or choose any file with m, marking it > use C to copy to /tmp/new > C-x o to other window where file is copied, it has C mark > press t to toggle, it is not working Note that (docstring): "Files marked with other flags (such as =E2=80=98D=E2=80=99) are not affe= cted." You must unmark the copied files (the C mark) for toggling to have an effect on them. Is that your problem? Michael. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 08 21:50:21 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 May 2020 01:50:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46523 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXEdA-0008Cf-QK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 May 2020 21:50:20 -0400 Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:46932) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXEd7-0008CM-UE for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 May 2020 21:50:20 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 0491lp5p138839; Sat, 9 May 2020 01:50:11 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=Aivl/G8yPs+pA4+GQuk1HnhCSZbPqLMS4NwBua2K5tM=; b=J0YwxEI2bOuodXsUanQz9mxBtUU9SaMRS0nOR+A96zuwtnQA1TpRRjenR9VaYqytS2JF Tx8M8dGItUK/5hujo4IJAby43mxqAkNbSrnmiKtGxR4pPuUqzQi2RaLGUDxtb529vL1V yuOZHcwnIvlhLiAV+KpzZihjAIGxA0ZTPkR5XoKm/qrXhH/hE+97VDfRZTMiEDu8Uqpa lPFR5sIlKcw/h+DjTCAISeBDLX6jfEjfa2wetBVS+Ryii9nFQ8Bq+a1UIHXuzv0QScLM A86Qlz0E0xPrhqBYZK6GQdcisq48cJjkXOiFksgQfNjaF6unHcVBKnq9evorbGwl16He DQ== Received: from userp3030.oracle.com (userp3030.oracle.com [156.151.31.80]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30vtewx0nu-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 09 May 2020 01:50:11 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 0491lsfN029447; Sat, 9 May 2020 01:50:10 GMT Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by userp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30whmqurqa-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 09 May 2020 01:50:10 +0000 Received: from abhmp0004.oracle.com (abhmp0004.oracle.com [141.146.116.10]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 0491o5fF006949; Sat, 9 May 2020 01:50:09 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <214abf24-3cbb-499d-b4b3-26874ce4a85b@default> Date: Fri, 8 May 2020 18:50:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Michael Heerdegen , Jean Louis Subject: RE: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy References: <861rnybf34.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200506144423.GW24998@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200508132924.GI14650@protected.rcdrun.com> <87r1vukl86.fsf@web.de> In-Reply-To: <87r1vukl86.fsf@web.de> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4993.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9615 signatures=668687 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=861 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2005090014 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9615 signatures=668687 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=891 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 priorityscore=1501 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 suspectscore=0 adultscore=0 clxscore=1011 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2005090014 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 Cc: 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, Arthur Miller X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > "Files marked with other flags (such as =E2=80=98D=E2=80=99) are not af= fected." Yes. Files marked with `C' are not affected. If you want the copies to be marked with `*' (instead of `C') in the target directory then set or bind `dired-keep-marker-copy' to `t' for the copy operation. Otherwise the mark used is `C'. > You must unmark the copied files (the C mark) > for toggling to have an effect on them. You can. But you need not unmark files that are marked with another mark, if you want them marked normally (or in some other way). You can instead use `* c' to change marks of one kind (e.g. `C') to marks of another kind (e.g. `*'). The prompts for this use `read-char', so it is very quick (no need to hit `RET'). This is an important feature, usable for more than one purpose. You can use it, for example, to save a set of marks and then restore them later, or to merge (union) multiple sets of marks. To save and restore: change `*' marks to some new (unused) char, e.g. `+', and later change the `+' marks back to `*'. ___ Dired has lots of handy things like this, some of which are not known too well. Another handy one is `M-DEL' (aka `M-'). It unmarks a particular mark (for all files listed in the buffer). Just hit `RET' to remove all marks, of any kind. (`RET' is read by `read-char', just like any other char. In this case, the char is Control-M, aka carriage return.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 09 01:24:19 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 May 2020 05:24:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46602 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXHyF-0005GH-HQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 May 2020 01:24:19 -0400 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.15.4]:44995) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXHyD-0005G1-Nk for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 May 2020 01:24:18 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=dbaedf251592; t=1589001724; bh=O804dyK1isOvsUBB/uUZ4reUxoWHvQJQofmKQ6yR1Tw=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=iVcpEjHJHqN6LBw8NWt8nuyaOV3bRz8m7gsnc10yMfiNyA2ANJgPg8FxRliGCdOnN wrhOkKecxNxEoFmo0DZEan+mF/aUc8VmyWZH1dUZNBYIryuiaN19MuBZdU7FWmv9kq dfL0q4cgwfkzOrN0t8MrMYglWXgLkeUPA7UkwbZs= X-UI-Sender-Class: c548c8c5-30a9-4db5-a2e7-cb6cb037b8f9 Received: from drachen.dragon ([88.67.107.170]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb006 [213.165.67.108]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MjPUE-1ir2M21sOA-00kxOX; Sat, 09 May 2020 07:22:04 +0200 From: Michael Heerdegen To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy References: <861rnybf34.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200506144423.GW24998@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200508132924.GI14650@protected.rcdrun.com> <87r1vukl86.fsf@web.de> <214abf24-3cbb-499d-b4b3-26874ce4a85b@default> Date: Sat, 09 May 2020 07:22:03 +0200 In-Reply-To: <214abf24-3cbb-499d-b4b3-26874ce4a85b@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Fri, 8 May 2020 18:50:04 -0700 (PDT)") Message-ID: <87imh5el8k.fsf@web.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:ZnErLkK4Wnz5SYwMItjBd0I81VmZrkdnsKvPYNr55Wt2lPYl+gh nw3Gy/WL7Zkik+ACi4JFY2kkcs1kfrJIacImlFMM7SOEneyWuWF//WlG42aB+BOWXKA9fXb iVtxIPfrfpLx6PdQZQI9L1OAxZm2zUiFdPx9JpiMt+W01KMj0ZarpuElp5M3RLnccgKoZaS iTjj0ZOrGNxPB1vrfKXVg== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:4zhOb5wWAqQ=:ydApJSuS4wX7tvY9H28J4F MhYCu3YKAYK88FbKTwFin8YAMQGsyYcn5mM78ezAL5uztzUKOZwkMVqv3FUV7xbHpxP8IpZBB 2/xzlDJu0jgNeVKZsA4ySpB8HOG7FeWGJ7B0OPqnjU+LEqySs/ayL7+vp7/i9PnAxliMuPjY8 i8GWvHaZ6xWP9hobQu3siNNq2jBsJVBwSU6+L5cwgMn+brhx7mUKdG9LmF6ktJIsDVNx2fUym KUgFkhSiu+bv/Ao4+PGyf2gu4O8l0+PPxSMg2cCcIR92hxrgM02g21WPWohmQiS1KUV7FM0y5 LRRqvKdeawl4fLPg5LJoQ7jTLDCVX+Ns3cVVy5s15pmG2oNLyvze30waKKH02l+wT3mAB+Gm3 tIoiJyeEWBbqMKqd9atQxbLX/LKMNfCjSKMFvDsDNtdvk+jfMikcNPhA3sUUU99EbPC5FKud4 c/rSPD5rTXia3d5UjBcYPmajNSJDEoyMLtXCCcXn776B4zro7D8sNtHNI/NxuokGp5J8IrwTF UQcZGiVu3T0EWsrxPLMgs1YZSxfWxHZ+FWrPVXvfmWvWMpwGNC5wA89Yq/Ac7IvPSvDJDz/Ib Hk28f4fzy8Xdrj/iSD0UUvr4PcQd+A6rg5/L8PlQgkOP9RNbb9YROV5EZbozZK1ZF+N1etmze I1oBccG9gr2dBDt2TJX2JP6hhZOVQD3i5WkWOMZoJxH+2MTh6igHrJUMp5HiDPIPE7sZOkyiJ FhPiiWpp2UtnO5nmJ0WGRQg4Gd6bdN36brqtGyULTbhikgDVO5jiY9PI+Xqa8p8pVPbjTune+ zYnunFcQbOwPTsqFVXAh86zDCue7fvOx8inTC9kTthihEE5RZPg26frfZq+Bg58sY9wtzCqua aulte3/GWOkwN9FucJIVZI9/feMqWTElm0mpxV7g8AQSmE4SbhJecei1T63AdYu05nXD8WwfS G4DBM5HIedpk135Y9admkXllimLHeg3VXixzN/rW5MuANEbiqt+AQp6McGXWow2PMm9i/04X3 PKvnk4MGRsm7VlU33NyjIsqDY5QIr12tyLe+glHxRNzb6WtxqBZvs7ZtRYcwHv9ML3RgImu97 02fF//Dv/JaL79V5eIk+kCAXmfH5gOCnbsgHOzTEw5iarKF4KHdbjpnsFk9bGrtu5jZFxzJts ygN5dlhyIQGzzE+2HjdMHBEFS7hMh7dn4tG1e8oMD7NXRd+R9R/UehKpxE47rE6jf8n2MNq36 G830GeSxuFxyMOLSU X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 Cc: 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, Arthur Miller , Jean Louis X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Drew Adams writes: > > "Files marked with other flags (such as =E2=80=98D=E2=80=99) are not = affected." > > Yes. Files marked with `C' are not affected. > > If you want the copies to be marked with `*' > (instead of `C') in the target directory then > set or bind `dired-keep-marker-copy' to `t' > for the copy operation. Otherwise the mark > used is `C'. > > > You must unmark the copied files (the C mark) > > for toggling to have an effect on them. > > You can. But you need not unmark files that > are marked with another mark, if you want them > marked normally (or in some other way). > > You can instead use `* c' to change marks of > one kind (e.g. `C') to marks of another kind > (e.g. `*'). > > The prompts for this use `read-char', so it is > very quick (no need to hit `RET'). Yeah, I use this sometimes. FWIW, personally, I hacked my t to a more convenient behavior: if I hit t and there are marks, it asks me whether any existing marks besides * shall be removed, when there are some. I like an explicit question in this case because I tended to expect different behavior in different situations, and mainly because I often missed that there were any other marks, especially if the buffer is not completely displayed when it is large. That is a bit of a pitfall, but the default behavior may also be surprising to users because the C marks are not very useful per se (they are sometimes, so I don't want to turn them off, but when using t a lot, they often just get in the way). > Dired has lots of handy things like this, some > of which are not known too well. Another > handy one is `M-DEL' (aka `M-'). > It unmarks a particular mark (for all files > listed in the buffer). Just hit `RET' to > remove all marks, of any kind. Didn't know that. My replacements were * ! and * c SPC (marking with SPC also unmarks). Michael. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 09 02:29:13 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 May 2020 06:29:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46694 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXIz2-0006yq-HV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 May 2020 02:29:13 -0400 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:36941) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXIjy-0006aq-MG for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 May 2020 02:13:39 -0400 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:41.210.154.62]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 00000000002D4966.000000005EB64A09.0000721F; Fri, 08 May 2020 23:13:28 -0700 Date: Sat, 9 May 2020 07:23:53 +0300 From: Jean Louis To: Michael Heerdegen Subject: Re: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy Message-ID: <20200509042353.GA15309@protected.rcdrun.com> References: <861rnybf34.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200506144423.GW24998@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200508132924.GI14650@protected.rcdrun.com> <87r1vukl86.fsf@web.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <87r1vukl86.fsf@web.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.14.0 (2020-05-02) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 09 May 2020 02:29:11 -0400 Cc: 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, rthur Miller X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) * Michael Heerdegen [2020-05-09 03:26]: > Jean Louis writes: > > > emacs -Q > > > > C-x C-f to /tmp directory > > C-x 3 to make 2 windows vertical > > in other directory, make new directory like /tmp/new > > create file in /tmp or choose any file with m, marking it > > use C to copy to /tmp/new > > C-x o to other window where file is copied, it has C mark > > press t to toggle, it is not working > > Note that (docstring): > > "Files marked with other flags (such as ‘D’) are not affected." > > You must unmark the copied files (the C mark) for toggling to have an > effect on them. Is that your problem? > > Michael. Problem is explained, after copy of marked files in the neighboring window, the key `t' for `dired-toggle-marks' don't work, as `t' is not marking those files in the neighboring window. I have to kill the window and enter directory again to be able to mark the files with `t' Jean From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 09 21:12:05 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2020 01:12:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48608 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXaVh-0007n0-DX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 May 2020 21:12:05 -0400 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.17.12]:42275) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXaVf-0007mU-9c for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 May 2020 21:12:04 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=dbaedf251592; t=1589073083; bh=jN1mpw9fSX5FYhi1nfdQYnvBvvn1J8sp2dkQazkWZRM=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=ksOkA2FldzOEj70tzAVkvFF2ibusXSg0CLoiuueRuPy5AWI9T+iTWiFh6dIpOkaY+ wtmHprUjiiSxiiWWm4BH10IAGA2OQhPtFpq31csHlimlGFHgJgZ4t6al7aV9T/v0UN R2MTzCcBqlhvezg2NOrqzO21VmXbPucewGPEfkY0= X-UI-Sender-Class: c548c8c5-30a9-4db5-a2e7-cb6cb037b8f9 Received: from drachen.dragon ([88.67.107.170]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb102 [213.165.67.124]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0M4ZTk-1jCkDv1urk-00ygZ1; Sun, 10 May 2020 03:11:23 +0200 From: Michael Heerdegen To: Jean Louis Subject: Re: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy References: <861rnybf34.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200506144423.GW24998@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200508132924.GI14650@protected.rcdrun.com> <87r1vukl86.fsf@web.de> <20200509042353.GA15309@protected.rcdrun.com> Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 03:11:22 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20200509042353.GA15309@protected.rcdrun.com> (Jean Louis's message of "Sat, 9 May 2020 07:23:53 +0300") Message-ID: <873688ppad.fsf@web.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:SBRHkYfmvEEKlsUP3kfZrZHa3TewAOeGz3XbVDeN+7NjpgkfVs4 Oq0d+MpRi9ezt33wPZiZqiWukvA+9+pRF5NEeDh30xAEcomX7hQPEVAY3vxVL7e/j8N+G0t XlngMKl0lTSlgZGKLD2EzgDp0xFEibeWxtgG+w0QBFjpi/yIucUtUZ/qLjQxhL18XMfRLVB Q8p0h3ZxQdzx1CrlytrYQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:btRaKjcwqYI=:jLiT0QnZ9lBCuPGn8aHuo2 +Th0H13vhCDqLyOf2HRwDohPA6LyFJATYK8t63UUr3TfmOL5f1aWh7En7X9C0UveC2nWyUBjS dDH/aOMtggdNCjZhE+87YDkecYQpO6arjD93dTo4Y+sxIG0Mp4SiBfoDpWB0m5ADtObOR32WP dMBm3ioHZ+kDkb38GLHvw34l0wQHrwpMQ6YSr7XpUMqGU768x+m8ZsHDbjWppEbE10wtC3Owp sNJBw7iecizTrMyj4KDf8Ss2BrnmgMkla8a2+aRfCS8ynuvci5lGfpdG5ogTztnpwRCNn65Ga sKfP17guzfEfL8u8+aiau1dyD55pqKJ+XdGV2/nhyGCIrKrYeKogDC0H+XZPnG9IqRB4DsQ86 bx4hD/xdlMJWBrEgaaEyQAKBKmH/SVcTrfeyPpUFePhFOcq/vAZyTtX5m0k9wdPM31Adsgvp3 0B7MQl7sOFsSBsiHa99kFrL/yfSvrrOAbRXi2InnE+V55+Gt3hoAF3Agog9JvtO48g7hBuerm bMIxrlv8urs/7mO9a5GiY7vzYxMF8PuIqOvXr7prtitFKaT2rk/RtUFUyfFPZ7GIj9oYdydcE ckX62WkgHP5+gtrg8GFz/xzzaHxVampP5i244Wi3DMZDrQfymVHSxVyiGbkEceqhz7MpTkn8q tKWRgl2jhyHcPpjSmIqcnVFR1TEHrsjZqEujSCTgCkAAtx6et/psBFz3+kGLYWAUMXd5drh+2 upcO7XKAMvniZYY67xpPzHxAcIip5aBcRCGCmnt33LsAcmL0yWkYBQKdYO8sWaFCLE2I6uT4A X+GeXQh4PZlJ3R9KWP2u47xMnfgWL3DvFAdyy/hEVrGSDZcBMeIQAVD48jXwiu/80S9pytyw5 TiHzIZUNsfa2iX/jCBvxZcpSOTRZGWmErF6DW1JA6CoVYfbw85YYRXBD8+ETqe3DXrR4aJpiq gZ4cRST5h1d1DNr+f2NnSRcZDJP7Dax5ER/juXAnSLO+tP0rtI1VeLCGuT04zJWp4TdkmGh23 8fyFi68iKO8XtTNEFYA96QO6J949UdfXCnWyJ4XGSKG0DppT8yDNhhbBCyqvwWH9aWwNGwGzn EhteyzPErOGJhepm1lZ7CPYn79Tm48mtrY1M9+Ro6q1jUyjvSvd2norBYfhiRKnNIpVmuUPxo e0FemXTmF5lfeYcOepUUM34JGdRB2MVwx8bMqPhnCYXxY0XPoJgmAImdwDRbqfCjr69mc6rUw 7BznF+iFqqrNFzRAW X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 Cc: 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, rthur Miller X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Jean Louis writes: > Problem is explained, after copy of marked files in the neighboring > window, the key `t' for `dired-toggle-marks' don't work, as `t' is not > marking those files in the neighboring window. Ok, you have that copied file in that other window you then switch to. That file has the C mark. It is the only file in that directory. Now you hit t to toggle. Nothing changes. Is that all correct? Because what you have described so far is the expected behavior, so either we are missing something, or you must please elaborate what different behavior you expected. Thanks in advance, Michael. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 10 01:42:38 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2020 05:42:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48802 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXejW-0006j2-CQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 01:42:38 -0400 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:49867) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXe5O-0005VU-37 for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 01:01:10 -0400 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:41.210.154.28]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 00000000002D6945.000000005EB78A8C.000079D9; Sat, 09 May 2020 22:00:59 -0700 Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 08:00:54 +0300 From: Jean Louis To: Michael Heerdegen Subject: Re: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy Message-ID: <20200510050054.GC15809@protected.rcdrun.com> References: <861rnybf34.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200506144423.GW24998@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200508132924.GI14650@protected.rcdrun.com> <87r1vukl86.fsf@web.de> <20200509042353.GA15309@protected.rcdrun.com> <873688ppad.fsf@web.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <873688ppad.fsf@web.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.14.0 (2020-05-02) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 10 May 2020 01:42:37 -0400 Cc: 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, rthur Miller X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) * Michael Heerdegen [2020-05-10 04:11]: > Jean Louis writes: > > > Problem is explained, after copy of marked files in the neighboring > > window, the key `t' for `dired-toggle-marks' don't work, as `t' is not > > marking those files in the neighboring window. > > Ok, you have that copied file in that other window you then switch to. > That file has the C mark. It is the only file in that directory. Now > you hit t to toggle. Nothing changes. Is that all correct? Because > what you have described so far is the expected behavior, so either we > are missing something, or you must please elaborate what different > behavior you expected. One file or many files, I cannot use `t' after copy of files. You say it is expected behavior, where is it described? The key `t' says: It is bound to t, * t, . (dired-toggle-marks) Why does `t' does not work on files flagged with C? Do you know? Jean From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 10 05:25:35 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2020 09:25:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48930 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXiDH-0004Cd-Oc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 05:25:35 -0400 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:57440) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXiDG-0004CR-1c for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 05:25:34 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9FAF016006E for <41097@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 10 May 2020 11:25:27 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1589102727; bh=z1KJo/DNaQSVjIz5pRpBog/NTr23eQkTmVlNbB6M/0U=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=EmTbdXYSrVaCubPyS+YjsmhhLngvQ1G5uI1xqxUW6Umf+FhbYK+D6sOsNmvZDt2Bl gcCnG4r4O/u0qdJl5WgZjgz262wTS0xnvCl2ciOks8qnlBORZioUZ1noPrtV+OKfv9 y6TwsfYTyQsz0B0u47mN6y87zEG3OZA1pfo1QJ3b2RXrF5yNN/TnXHa99IO+FACPh/ BfGOgr7SB4fr2qXovxFAxlcd2MiqRmBswdT8o49pxbyUtJVM8milMg+dNwmi7Kx0lS 3k8zIX1TmJaTwqrxOHtoYMzx3wJGi0ZjSt7IMp9R/HtSEOs9F5F3gqWiEoyIsi2h49 DCXBwWttE65aQ== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 49Kdvp50nLz6tnZ; Sun, 10 May 2020 11:25:26 +0200 (CEST) From: Tomas Nordin To: Jean Louis , Michael Heerdegen Subject: Re: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy In-Reply-To: <20200509042353.GA15309@protected.rcdrun.com> References: <861rnybf34.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200506144423.GW24998@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200508132924.GI14650@protected.rcdrun.com> <87r1vukl86.fsf@web.de> <20200509042353.GA15309@protected.rcdrun.com> Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 11:25:26 +0200 Message-ID: <87h7wonnuh.fsf@fliptop.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 Cc: 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, rthur Miller X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Jean Louis writes: > * Michael Heerdegen [2020-05-09 03:26]: >> Jean Louis writes: >>=20 >> > emacs -Q >> > >> > C-x C-f to /tmp directory >> > C-x 3 to make 2 windows vertical >> > in other directory, make new directory like /tmp/new >> > create file in /tmp or choose any file with m, marking it >> > use C to copy to /tmp/new >> > C-x o to other window where file is copied, it has C mark >> > press t to toggle, it is not working >>=20 >> Note that (docstring): >>=20 >> "Files marked with other flags (such as =E2=80=98D=E2=80=99) are not a= ffected." >>=20 >> You must unmark the copied files (the C mark) for toggling to have an >> effect on them. Is that your problem? >>=20 >> Michael. > > Problem is explained, after copy of marked files in the neighboring > window, the key `t' for `dired-toggle-marks' don't work, as `t' is not > marking those files in the neighboring window. > > I have to kill the window and enter directory again to be able to mark > the files with `t' You could also try to hit `U' at this point instead of killing window and enter directory again, to run dired-unmark-all-marks. After that the toggling should do what you expect. > > Jean From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 10 08:07:00 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2020 12:07:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49150 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXkjT-0004OT-DU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 08:06:59 -0400 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:35543) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXihi-00054V-RS for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 05:57:03 -0400 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:41.210.154.28]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 00000000002D4966.000000005EB7CFE5.00001320; Sun, 10 May 2020 02:56:52 -0700 Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 12:56:46 +0300 From: Jean Louis To: Tomas Nordin Subject: Re: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy Message-ID: <20200510095646.GA22962@protected.rcdrun.com> References: <861rnybf34.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200506144423.GW24998@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200508132924.GI14650@protected.rcdrun.com> <87r1vukl86.fsf@web.de> <20200509042353.GA15309@protected.rcdrun.com> <87h7wonnuh.fsf@fliptop.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <87h7wonnuh.fsf@fliptop.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> User-Agent: Mutt/1.14.0 (2020-05-02) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 10 May 2020 08:06:58 -0400 Cc: Michael Heerdegen , 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, rthur Miller X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) * Tomas Nordin [2020-05-10 12:25]: > > Problem is explained, after copy of marked files in the neighboring > > window, the key `t' for `dired-toggle-marks' don't work, as `t' is not > > marking those files in the neighboring window. > > > > I have to kill the window and enter directory again to be able to mark > > the files with `t' > > You could also try to hit `U' at this point instead of killing window > and enter directory again, to run dired-unmark-all-marks. After that the > toggling should do what you expect. Aaa, that it is. So C flag is mark same as with t, that is good for me. But that behavior is not described that I know. If that is intended to be so, that marking and flagging is the same, then maybe description should be changed for that function, that user knows that function will not work if files have the flag C for being copied. Toggle marks: marked files become unmarked, and vice versa. Files marked with other flags (such as ‘D’) are not affected. ‘.’ and ‘..’ are never toggled. As always, hidden subdirs are not affected. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 10 10:07:58 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2020 14:07:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50169 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXmcY-0000PJ-N0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 10:07:58 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40514) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXmcX-0000P0-53 for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 10:07:57 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:43533) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXmcP-0000Rv-SF; Sun, 10 May 2020 10:07:49 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4813 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jXmcE-00031e-I9; Sun, 10 May 2020 10:07:48 -0400 Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 17:07:32 +0300 Message-Id: <83y2pzdgt7.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Jean Louis In-Reply-To: <20200510095646.GA22962@protected.rcdrun.com> (message from Jean Louis on Sun, 10 May 2020 12:56:46 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy References: <861rnybf34.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200506144423.GW24998@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200508132924.GI14650@protected.rcdrun.com> <87r1vukl86.fsf@web.de> <20200509042353.GA15309@protected.rcdrun.com> <87h7wonnuh.fsf@fliptop.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <20200510095646.GA22962@protected.rcdrun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, tomasn@posteo.net, 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, arthur.miller@live.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 12:56:46 +0300 > From: Jean Louis > Cc: Michael Heerdegen , 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, > rthur Miller > > So C flag is mark same as with t, that is good for me. > > But that behavior is not described that I know. If that is intended to > be so, that marking and flagging is the same, then maybe description > should be changed for that function, that user knows that function > will not work if files have the flag C for being copied. > > Toggle marks: marked files become unmarked, and vice versa. > Files marked with other flags (such as ‘D’) are not affected. > ‘.’ and ‘..’ are never toggled. > As always, hidden subdirs are not affected. Could you please tell what is missing or confusing in the doc string? Is it the fact that it mentions 'D', but not 'C'? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 10 11:12:16 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2020 15:12:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50233 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXncf-0002gC-E4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 11:12:16 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:47424) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXncd-0002fl-JD for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 11:12:08 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:44412) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXncW-0000Ij-Ss; Sun, 10 May 2020 11:12:00 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1114 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jXncV-000613-Kr; Sun, 10 May 2020 11:12:00 -0400 Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 18:11:52 +0300 Message-Id: <83sgg7ddtz.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Jean Louis In-Reply-To: <20200510145503.GE28606@protected.rcdrun.com> (message from Jean Louis on Sun, 10 May 2020 17:55:03 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy References: <861rnybf34.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200506144423.GW24998@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200508132924.GI14650@protected.rcdrun.com> <87r1vukl86.fsf@web.de> <20200509042353.GA15309@protected.rcdrun.com> <87h7wonnuh.fsf@fliptop.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <20200510095646.GA22962@protected.rcdrun.com> <83y2pzdgt7.fsf@gnu.org> <20200510145503.GE28606@protected.rcdrun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, tomasn@posteo.net, 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, arthur.miller@live.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 17:55:03 +0300 > From: Jean Louis > Cc: tomasn@posteo.net, michael_heerdegen@web.de, > 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, arthur.miller@live.com > > > > Toggle marks: marked files become unmarked, and vice versa. > > > Files marked with other flags (such as ‘D’) are not affected. > > > ‘.’ and ‘..’ are never toggled. > > > As always, hidden subdirs are not affected. > > > > Could you please tell what is missing or confusing in the doc string? > > Is it the fact that it mentions 'D', but not 'C'? > > There is menu "Mark", in the menu there is "m" for mark, and "d" for > flag. > > If m is for marking then (dired-toggle-marks) should work with > success, because why it should not work if the file is flagged with C, > because it is not a file for deletion. > > If is is for marking and d for flaging means to prepare for deletion, > then "m" does not flag, it marks, so there are no "other flags" but > there is just one mark and other flags. If menu separates marks from > flags, then the function should separate marks from flags too, maybe > except for flagged files. > > Confusing, but I don't see a logic why I should not be able to toggle > marks on files that have been recently copied or renamed. Because t toggles marks, and C is not a mark, it's a flag. If the doc string which you quoted several times said this: Toggle marks: marked files become unmarked, and vice versa. Flagged files (indicated with flags such as ‘C’ and ‘D’, not with ‘*’) are not affected, and ‘.’ and ‘..’ are never toggled. would that prevent the confusion? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 10 11:47:05 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2020 15:47:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50257 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXoAS-0003oW-Ll for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 11:47:05 -0400 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:50649) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXnMt-000258-8S for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 10:55:52 -0400 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:41.210.154.28]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 000000000006FD13.000000005EB815D4.00002CC5; Sun, 10 May 2020 07:55:13 -0700 Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 17:55:03 +0300 From: Jean Louis To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy Message-ID: <20200510145503.GE28606@protected.rcdrun.com> References: <861rnybf34.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200506144423.GW24998@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200508132924.GI14650@protected.rcdrun.com> <87r1vukl86.fsf@web.de> <20200509042353.GA15309@protected.rcdrun.com> <87h7wonnuh.fsf@fliptop.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <20200510095646.GA22962@protected.rcdrun.com> <83y2pzdgt7.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <83y2pzdgt7.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.14.0 (2020-05-02) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 10 May 2020 11:47:03 -0400 Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, tomasn@posteo.net, 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, arthur.miller@live.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) * Eli Zaretskii [2020-05-10 17:08]: > > Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 12:56:46 +0300 > > From: Jean Louis > > Cc: Michael Heerdegen , 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, > > rthur Miller > > > > So C flag is mark same as with t, that is good for me. > > > > But that behavior is not described that I know. If that is intended to > > be so, that marking and flagging is the same, then maybe description > > should be changed for that function, that user knows that function > > will not work if files have the flag C for being copied. > > > > Toggle marks: marked files become unmarked, and vice versa. > > Files marked with other flags (such as ‘D’) are not affected. > > ‘.’ and ‘..’ are never toggled. > > As always, hidden subdirs are not affected. > > Could you please tell what is missing or confusing in the doc string? > Is it the fact that it mentions 'D', but not 'C'? There is menu "Mark", in the menu there is "m" for mark, and "d" for flag. If m is for marking then (dired-toggle-marks) should work with success, because why it should not work if the file is flagged with C, because it is not a file for deletion. If is is for marking and d for flaging means to prepare for deletion, then "m" does not flag, it marks, so there are no "other flags" but there is just one mark and other flags. If menu separates marks from flags, then the function should separate marks from flags too, maybe except for flagged files. Confusing, but I don't see a logic why I should not be able to toggle marks on files that have been recently copied or renamed. Jean From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 10 11:47:05 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2020 15:47:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50259 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXoAT-0003oZ-LJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 11:47:05 -0400 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:39765) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXnxL-0003LY-E0 for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 11:33:31 -0400 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:41.210.154.28]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 000000000006FD13.000000005EB81EBF.00003029; Sun, 10 May 2020 08:33:18 -0700 Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 18:33:11 +0300 From: Jean Louis To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy Message-ID: <20200510153311.GH28606@protected.rcdrun.com> References: <20200506144423.GW24998@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200508132924.GI14650@protected.rcdrun.com> <87r1vukl86.fsf@web.de> <20200509042353.GA15309@protected.rcdrun.com> <87h7wonnuh.fsf@fliptop.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <20200510095646.GA22962@protected.rcdrun.com> <83y2pzdgt7.fsf@gnu.org> <20200510145503.GE28606@protected.rcdrun.com> <83sgg7ddtz.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <83sgg7ddtz.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.14.0 (2020-05-02) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 10 May 2020 11:47:03 -0400 Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, tomasn@posteo.net, 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, arthur.miller@live.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) * Eli Zaretskii [2020-05-10 18:12]: > Because t toggles marks, and C is not a mark, it's a flag. > > If the doc string which you quoted several times said this: > > Toggle marks: marked files become unmarked, and vice versa. > Flagged files (indicated with flags such as ‘C’ and ‘D’, not > with ‘*’) are not affected, and ‘.’ and ‘..’ are never toggled. > > would that prevent the confusion? That makes sense to me now. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 10 12:06:14 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2020 16:06:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50279 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXoSz-0006Y1-UK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 12:06:14 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:55162) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXoSv-0006Xi-HS for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 12:06:12 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:45310) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXoSo-00040K-KR; Sun, 10 May 2020 12:06:02 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4379 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jXoSl-0007Ar-AV; Sun, 10 May 2020 12:06:02 -0400 Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 19:05:51 +0300 Message-Id: <83r1vrdbc0.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Jean Louis In-Reply-To: <20200510153311.GH28606@protected.rcdrun.com> (message from Jean Louis on Sun, 10 May 2020 18:33:11 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy References: <20200506144423.GW24998@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200508132924.GI14650@protected.rcdrun.com> <87r1vukl86.fsf@web.de> <20200509042353.GA15309@protected.rcdrun.com> <87h7wonnuh.fsf@fliptop.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <20200510095646.GA22962@protected.rcdrun.com> <83y2pzdgt7.fsf@gnu.org> <20200510145503.GE28606@protected.rcdrun.com> <83sgg7ddtz.fsf@gnu.org> <20200510153311.GH28606@protected.rcdrun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, tomasn@posteo.net, 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, arthur.miller@live.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 18:33:11 +0300 > From: Jean Louis > Cc: tomasn@posteo.net, michael_heerdegen@web.de, > 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, arthur.miller@live.com > > * Eli Zaretskii [2020-05-10 18:12]: > > Because t toggles marks, and C is not a mark, it's a flag. > > > > If the doc string which you quoted several times said this: > > > > Toggle marks: marked files become unmarked, and vice versa. > > Flagged files (indicated with flags such as ‘C’ and ‘D’, not > > with ‘*’) are not affected, and ‘.’ and ‘..’ are never toggled. > > > > would that prevent the confusion? > > That makes sense to me now. Thanks, I installed this on the release branch. OK to close the bug now? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 10 12:28:32 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2020 16:28:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50298 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXooL-0007GV-Jk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 12:28:32 -0400 Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:58448) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXooK-0007G9-6f for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 12:28:16 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 04AGNEjg038718; Sun, 10 May 2020 16:28:10 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=1ThSKZb8Y1nAISF7SO3ppOyBzQqt9754cqxlKRI1IvU=; b=a5VVNbuQtR538p/j2xKyV3mVuP4BRwodEnCXSeOmTBH+I2AQ/EKv96js3/pnTYmqvJ1k XwflDelaX2tg/yNvEXI/gLBRHwro7YS8qNd0q3sr0E0PTgA3LBwjfX/DdbOjjHLTz8JD przXHY1F+CqcqQBjUn2FFZCYukfbKCqcFbrgh1/W5Mr8JOfmIxQxvcb5yQysfAtg+403 BhOXqi6AOsU3X6a5nyM8Am1ilC4LRNIAGqfQxhZS0EJ5mWfXEP+/NdTLVuHT+QDw53BB UxW8q6Y4AmipYBUUO+3JngVRxnFvrRpv0vrJVgjY9Q9hwz9MTl5taH8Oe1bt4SaLQIkb Tg== Received: from aserp3020.oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [141.146.126.70]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30x3mbhrxa-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 May 2020 16:28:10 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 04AGOSPu152780; Sun, 10 May 2020 16:26:09 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30xbgan8v5-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 10 May 2020 16:26:09 +0000 Received: from abhmp0015.oracle.com (abhmp0015.oracle.com [141.146.116.21]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 04AGQ2O4018710; Sun, 10 May 2020 16:26:02 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <7979fef4-5df8-4997-95fd-c5be5887ab44@default> Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 09:26:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Jean Louis Subject: RE: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy References: <861rnybf34.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200506144423.GW24998@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200508132924.GI14650@protected.rcdrun.com> <87r1vukl86.fsf@web.de> <20200509042353.GA15309@protected.rcdrun.com> <87h7wonnuh.fsf@fliptop.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <20200510095646.GA22962@protected.rcdrun.com> <83y2pzdgt7.fsf@gnu.org> <20200510145503.GE28606@protected.rcdrun.com> <83sgg7ddtz.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83sgg7ddtz.fsf@gnu.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4993.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9617 signatures=668687 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2005100152 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9617 signatures=668687 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 impostorscore=0 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 clxscore=1015 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2005100152 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, tomasn@posteo.net, 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, arthur.miller@live.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > > If m is for marking then (dired-toggle-marks) should work with > > success, because why it should not work if the file is flagged with > > C, because it is not a file for deletion. > > > > If is is for marking and d for flaging means to prepare for deletion, > > then "m" does not flag, it marks, so there are no "other flags" but > > there is just one mark and other flags. If menu separates marks from > > flags, then the function should separate marks from flags too, maybe > > except for flagged files. > > > > Confusing, but I don't see a logic why I should not be able to toggle > > marks on files that have been recently copied or renamed. >=20 > Because t toggles marks, and C is not a mark, it's a flag. This is not true. Let's please not go there. The doc has always spoken of "flagging" only for the deletion mark, `D', and that mark is also called a "flag" (_the_ flag). It is the only mark that has ever been called a "flag". It flags a possible danger -- "Hey! Over here. Watch out." But `D', `C', and any others are all marks. You can create any marks you like - use any char. It's true that, for simplicity, the operation of "marking" generally refers to marking with `*'. Command `* c' (`dired-change-marks') is specifically about changing marks - substituting one char for another. As for the general question from Jean-Louis, I (and Michael) already answered it: * If you want `t' to UNmark files that have a mark (e.g. `C') other than `*' then you need to first change those `C' marks to `*' (`* c C *' does that for `C' marks). * If you want `t' to _mark_ the files marked `C' then you need to first unmark them. You can do that in two ways, depending on what you really want: 1. Unmark ALL marks, of any kind. `U' or `M-DEL RET' does this. 2. Change just the `C' marks to ` ' (space char). `* c C SPC' or `M-DEL SPC' does this. ("Marking" with a space char =3D unmarking.) Why/when would you ever want to use `* c C *' instead of `U'? When you also had some other marks (`D', `E' or whatever), which you did _not_ want to change to `*'. And yes, unmarking applies also to `D' marks (aka flags). Unmarking (unflagging) is not something dangerous or noteworthy. Flagging (`D') is. Dired copy-file commands mark with `C' in the target directory listing. This is a feature, not a bug. And `t' toggles only files marked `*' and unmarked files. This is also a feature. The most common, most active, use of marks is with the `*' mark. The general "marking" commands use `*', by default. It is the default mark character, the default value of `dired-marker-char'. Its doc tells you that is is "what the do-commands look for, and what the mark-commands store". I think the doc is pretty clear, but yes, it might require some careful reading. > If the doc string which you quoted several times said this: >=20 > Toggle marks: marked files become unmarked, and vice versa. > Flagged files (indicated with flags such as =E2=80=98C=E2=80=99 and =E2= =80=98D=E2=80=99, not > with =E2=80=98*=E2=80=99) are not affected, and =E2=80=98.=E2=80=99 and= =E2=80=98..=E2=80=99 are never toggled. >=20 > would that prevent the confusion? No, that's worse. It introduces `C' as a "flag". "Flag" and "flagging" need to be reserved for `D'. It should always be about "flagging for deletion". This is important because deletion is consequential. That's presumably the reason for having always used a special term for `D' marks. "Flag", in the Dired context, is like a red flag -- a warning, of sorts: "Pay attention! This marking is particularly important." That's also the reason we font-lock `D'-marked lines specially (red!). It would probably help if the first line of the doc string explicitly called out `*' marks. Maybe something like this: Toggle `*' marks: unmark marked files, and vice versa. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 10 12:29:47 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2020 16:29:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50303 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXopm-0007Jj-P5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 12:29:47 -0400 Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:59200) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXopi-0007JJ-Af for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 12:29:46 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 04AGNEeA038663; Sun, 10 May 2020 16:29:36 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=IwRjc6TdEcSmqQn3M1Q57C2W4bWe0RMEgtMOWb5MdKA=; b=FR/f0TENMWQ7S/Q5sDeATEkGFcmuOqHvnr+Jb3BDQu6Lwbuh3Jo9gtJn3q1L7HlGGgNw AlKsMEKypbvYfEaRtl0Tl+J+D+1C+Q6B2sHr4pZuBtdQ6J8eCvIMt3S/FUmMXo1cWLGd FgWPm+x3Jj5seihl+YXQJ4xTz4sxchlwYo4uSIg+LwPJkIfuj9xgl5+csrxuhH7ARbPk C4KM21ua4D+iJjYUUXiqwrqE/3Xv0j863DtUAuSQdxFPdVvpCcMmBJiS2t4RAX2osi5a pOlf8efv1mrT0Y2WlzCAy84cevHndmP4GuLXhNfIAUqibcHVhYoZsflU3MlaWekfDtBQ jA== Received: from aserp3020.oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [141.146.126.70]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30x3mbhry8-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 May 2020 16:29:36 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 04AGSMT1164878; Sun, 10 May 2020 16:29:36 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30xbganjdr-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 10 May 2020 16:29:35 +0000 Received: from abhmp0015.oracle.com (abhmp0015.oracle.com [141.146.116.21]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 04AGTYoG026416; Sun, 10 May 2020 16:29:34 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <6bc132d3-2d2d-4eb3-86dd-b818c1b856a2@default> Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 09:29:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Jean Louis Subject: RE: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy References: <20200506144423.GW24998@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200508132924.GI14650@protected.rcdrun.com> <87r1vukl86.fsf@web.de> <20200509042353.GA15309@protected.rcdrun.com> <87h7wonnuh.fsf@fliptop.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <20200510095646.GA22962@protected.rcdrun.com> <83y2pzdgt7.fsf@gnu.org> <20200510145503.GE28606@protected.rcdrun.com> <83sgg7ddtz.fsf@gnu.org> <20200510153311.GH28606@protected.rcdrun.com> <83r1vrdbc0.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83r1vrdbc0.fsf@gnu.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4993.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9617 signatures=668687 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=957 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2005100153 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9617 signatures=668687 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 impostorscore=0 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 clxscore=1015 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2005100152 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, tomasn@posteo.net, 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, arthur.miller@live.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Thanks, I installed this on the release branch. >=20 > OK to close the bug now? That "fix" is a real step backward, not forward. When combined with the rest of Dired - behavior and doc, it introduces inconsistency and confusion. Please see my previous messages in this thread. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 10 12:40:50 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2020 16:40:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50311 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXp0U-0007iY-0k for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 12:40:50 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:58878) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXp0R-0007iG-PZ for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 12:40:48 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:46067) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXp0L-00068l-2K; Sun, 10 May 2020 12:40:41 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2616 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jXp0K-0004FV-91; Sun, 10 May 2020 12:40:40 -0400 Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 19:40:33 +0300 Message-Id: <83mu6fd9q6.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: <6bc132d3-2d2d-4eb3-86dd-b818c1b856a2@default> (message from Drew Adams on Sun, 10 May 2020 09:29:33 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy References: <20200506144423.GW24998@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200508132924.GI14650@protected.rcdrun.com> <87r1vukl86.fsf@web.de> <20200509042353.GA15309@protected.rcdrun.com> <87h7wonnuh.fsf@fliptop.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <20200510095646.GA22962@protected.rcdrun.com> <83y2pzdgt7.fsf@gnu.org> <20200510145503.GE28606@protected.rcdrun.com> <83sgg7ddtz.fsf@gnu.org> <20200510153311.GH28606@protected.rcdrun.com> <83r1vrdbc0.fsf@gnu.org> <6bc132d3-2d2d-4eb3-86dd-b818c1b856a2@default> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, tomasn@posteo.net, 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, arthur.miller@live.com, bugs@gnu.support X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 09:29:33 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, tomasn@posteo.net, 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, > arthur.miller@live.com > > > Thanks, I installed this on the release branch. > > > > OK to close the bug now? > > That "fix" is a real step backward, not forward. I disagree. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 10 12:47:09 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2020 16:47:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50325 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXp6b-0007wM-6j for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 12:47:09 -0400 Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:40680) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXp6Y-0007w1-Vy for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 12:47:07 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 04AGgw2t062828; Sun, 10 May 2020 16:47:01 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=dNYHRsymmqlYcONbybDK1OwI4PRIrgPzRenPgr4HzQc=; b=lDT5QmZD/LBLsvmoASVTmg8R7pKOPBY62DuM1n/2839Zqpoqp06dWV3F3FBHi0MyezOu qLpvVp+dt59afgZBHmMahN4MfGmOH/5m6ONkf1chR/nMRNMT9OI9jwDFbCNNjfOpVKmY +CIldhJBtEq+LllTGoqO9skE4J60uxg8w0Q89kVwO9n+aE/7TfUqVUBZB8aLPoF2kIMi brAF6V1v8JDp41/8bfTyg1PnZf5to9RMOI3cJ5ajEozt1PQNRQXZ/Rp1hbh6zXwzj4RO eyNW2R6T3c4cMs3ELlwIdJcciHMah55oUvxBHZ6o8kQJBmlIEE79O3qdv/eScpmnZQeJ 2w== Received: from userp3020.oracle.com (userp3020.oracle.com [156.151.31.79]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30x3mbhsq1-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 May 2020 16:47:01 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 04AGi2Yq034920; Sun, 10 May 2020 16:47:00 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30x69p8ry5-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 10 May 2020 16:47:00 +0000 Received: from abhmp0015.oracle.com (abhmp0015.oracle.com [141.146.116.21]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 04AGkvO7027844; Sun, 10 May 2020 16:46:59 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 09:46:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Subject: RE: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy References: <<20200506144423.GW24998@protected.rcdrun.com>> <> <<20200508132924.GI14650@protected.rcdrun.com>> <<87r1vukl86.fsf@web.de>> <<20200509042353.GA15309@protected.rcdrun.com>> <<87h7wonnuh.fsf@fliptop.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me>> <<20200510095646.GA22962@protected.rcdrun.com>> <<83y2pzdgt7.fsf@gnu.org>> <<20200510145503.GE28606@protected.rcdrun.com>> <<83sgg7ddtz.fsf@gnu.org>> <<20200510153311.GH28606@protected.rcdrun.com>> <<83r1vrdbc0.fsf@gnu.org>> <<6bc132d3-2d2d-4eb3-86dd-b818c1b856a2@default>> <<83mu6fd9q6.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83mu6fd9q6.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4993.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9617 signatures=668687 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2005100155 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9617 signatures=668687 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 impostorscore=0 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 clxscore=1015 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2005100155 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, tomasn@posteo.net, 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, arthur.miller@live.com, bugs@gnu.support X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > > Thanks, I installed this on the release branch. > > > OK to close the bug now? > > > > That "fix" is a real step backward, not forward. >=20 > I disagree. Please reconsider. Can you point to any other occurrence of referring to some mark other than `D' as a "flag" - anywhere in the Dired doc or code? All marks, including `D', are marks. Only `D' is called "flag". From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 10 13:11:02 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2020 17:11:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50345 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXpTi-0000Fr-0R for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 13:11:02 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:33870) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXpTg-0000FM-9Q for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 13:11:00 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:46510) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXpTa-000096-AW; Sun, 10 May 2020 13:10:54 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4450 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jXpTZ-0001WS-Kq; Sun, 10 May 2020 13:10:54 -0400 Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 20:10:47 +0300 Message-Id: <83k11jd8bs.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Sun, 10 May 2020 09:46:56 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy References: <<20200506144423.GW24998@protected.rcdrun.com>> <> <<20200508132924.GI14650@protected.rcdrun.com>> <<87r1vukl86.fsf@web.de>> <<20200509042353.GA15309@protected.rcdrun.com>> <<87h7wonnuh.fsf@fliptop.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me>> <<20200510095646.GA22962@protected.rcdrun.com>> <<83y2pzdgt7.fsf@gnu.org>> <<20200510145503.GE28606@protected.rcdrun.com>> <<83sgg7ddtz.fsf@gnu.org>> <<20200510153311.GH28606@protected.rcdrun.com>> <<83r1vrdbc0.fsf@gnu.org>> <<6bc132d3-2d2d-4eb3-86dd-b818c1b856a2@default>> <<83mu6fd9q6.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, tomasn@posteo.net, 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, arthur.miller@live.com, bugs@gnu.support X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 09:46:56 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: bugs@gnu.support, michael_heerdegen@web.de, tomasn@posteo.net, > 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, arthur.miller@live.com > > > > That "fix" is a real step backward, not forward. > > > > I disagree. > > Please reconsider. Done. > Can you point to any other occurrence of referring > to some mark other than `D' as a "flag" - anywhere > in the Dired doc or code? All marks, including > `D', are marks. Only `D' is called "flag". "Flag" is just a word. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 10 13:19:51 2020 Received: (at 41097-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2020 17:19:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50359 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXpcF-0000UQ-6G for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 13:19:51 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:34866) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXpcD-0000UC-Lw for 41097-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 13:19:50 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:46637) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXpc6-0003ab-U8; Sun, 10 May 2020 13:19:42 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4988 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jXpc6-0002Gq-C2; Sun, 10 May 2020 13:19:42 -0400 Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 20:19:36 +0300 Message-Id: <83h7wnd7x3.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Jean Louis In-Reply-To: <20200510171724.GI28606@protected.rcdrun.com> (message from Jean Louis on Sun, 10 May 2020 20:17:24 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy References: <20200508132924.GI14650@protected.rcdrun.com> <87r1vukl86.fsf@web.de> <20200509042353.GA15309@protected.rcdrun.com> <87h7wonnuh.fsf@fliptop.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <20200510095646.GA22962@protected.rcdrun.com> <83y2pzdgt7.fsf@gnu.org> <20200510145503.GE28606@protected.rcdrun.com> <83sgg7ddtz.fsf@gnu.org> <20200510153311.GH28606@protected.rcdrun.com> <83r1vrdbc0.fsf@gnu.org> <20200510171724.GI28606@protected.rcdrun.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097-done Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, tomasn@posteo.net, 41097-done@debbugs.gnu.org, arthur.miller@live.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 20:17:24 +0300 > From: Jean Louis > Cc: tomasn@posteo.net, michael_heerdegen@web.de, > 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, arthur.miller@live.com > > > Thanks, I installed this on the release branch. > > > > OK to close the bug now? > > Sure is OK. Thanks, closed. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 10 13:27:22 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2020 17:27:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50372 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXpjW-0000il-5R for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 13:27:22 -0400 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:57765) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXpa8-0000Qf-10 for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 13:17:40 -0400 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:41.210.154.28]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 00000000002B4A80.000000005EB83729.00003A94; Sun, 10 May 2020 10:17:28 -0700 Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 20:17:24 +0300 From: Jean Louis To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy Message-ID: <20200510171724.GI28606@protected.rcdrun.com> References: <20200508132924.GI14650@protected.rcdrun.com> <87r1vukl86.fsf@web.de> <20200509042353.GA15309@protected.rcdrun.com> <87h7wonnuh.fsf@fliptop.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <20200510095646.GA22962@protected.rcdrun.com> <83y2pzdgt7.fsf@gnu.org> <20200510145503.GE28606@protected.rcdrun.com> <83sgg7ddtz.fsf@gnu.org> <20200510153311.GH28606@protected.rcdrun.com> <83r1vrdbc0.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <83r1vrdbc0.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.14.0 (2020-05-02) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 10 May 2020 13:27:21 -0400 Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, tomasn@posteo.net, 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, arthur.miller@live.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) * Eli Zaretskii [2020-05-10 19:06]: > > Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 18:33:11 +0300 > > From: Jean Louis > > Cc: tomasn@posteo.net, michael_heerdegen@web.de, > > 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, arthur.miller@live.com > > > > * Eli Zaretskii [2020-05-10 18:12]: > > > Because t toggles marks, and C is not a mark, it's a flag. > > > > > > If the doc string which you quoted several times said this: > > > > > > Toggle marks: marked files become unmarked, and vice versa. > > > Flagged files (indicated with flags such as ‘C’ and ‘D’, not > > > with ‘*’) are not affected, and ‘.’ and ‘..’ are never toggled. > > > > > > would that prevent the confusion? > > > > That makes sense to me now. > > Thanks, I installed this on the release branch. > > OK to close the bug now? Sure is OK. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 10 13:32:20 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2020 17:32:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50391 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXpoJ-0000ue-Pz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 13:32:19 -0400 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:45689) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXpoI-0000uR-HZ for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 13:32:18 -0400 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:41.210.154.28]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 00000000002B4A80.000000005EB83A98.00003BFF; Sun, 10 May 2020 10:32:07 -0700 Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 20:32:01 +0300 From: Jean Louis To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy Message-ID: <20200510173201.GL28606@protected.rcdrun.com> References: <20200508132924.GI14650@protected.rcdrun.com> <87r1vukl86.fsf@web.de> <20200509042353.GA15309@protected.rcdrun.com> <87h7wonnuh.fsf@fliptop.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <20200510095646.GA22962@protected.rcdrun.com> <83y2pzdgt7.fsf@gnu.org> <20200510145503.GE28606@protected.rcdrun.com> <83sgg7ddtz.fsf@gnu.org> <7979fef4-5df8-4997-95fd-c5be5887ab44@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7979fef4-5df8-4997-95fd-c5be5887ab44@default> User-Agent: Mutt/1.14.0 (2020-05-02) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, Eli Zaretskii , 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, tomasn@posteo.net, arthur.miller@live.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) * Drew Adams [2020-05-10 19:28]: > The doc has always spoken of "flagging" only for the > deletion mark, `D', and that mark is also called a > "flag" (_the_ flag). It is the only mark that has > ever been called a "flag". It flags a possible > danger -- "Hey! Over here. Watch out." Thanks, that gives me more clariy. > It should always be about "flagging for deletion". > This is important because deletion is consequential. > That's presumably the reason for having always used > a special term for `D' marks. > > "Flag", in the Dired context, is like a red flag -- > a warning, of sorts: "Pay attention! This marking > is particularly important." That's also the reason > we font-lock `D'-marked lines specially (red!). It makes sense to me now. Thank you. Jean From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 10 15:23:17 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2020 19:23:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50436 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXrXS-0004NJ-AS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 15:23:17 -0400 Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:45244) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXrXR-0004Mf-3K for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 15:23:01 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 04AJMteg028746; Sun, 10 May 2020 19:22:55 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=d1Nygk7TM/OJnBcwAJIb1Zg5Vtdh8BPHRFRQ4qdKv0s=; b=CGOLKPS+JUGjviDghlsyR9YuZdpEm64/FYre4dddMIJQgkuhzv4cfmWDaBIJLoiZHKYl aUBRUILzxHWyxGWYjIX5X+EVR2CrixtPV4Yn/uiQuEyDdczlfKN13MxGFFHlXQltcR5A zYKlY0Ic5Xee8aybkrZ9txWYT7jLWRGDUGQq7qyL0jhHH/Xb6XCvZH5JNwzmSO96JFAV w4elsO188zcklgtztVBavqGlpVzdX0m8yd/DpK7P+dp8faPr1TynqJeEUeh6zyvkYjT7 OAynOn004riEJRxHFvhb1CmuCLdA/LByoTu0kFBmauYj0wbHo6DhjB+IeD/KzCQFvvGk ow== Received: from aserp3030.oracle.com (aserp3030.oracle.com [141.146.126.71]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30x3gm9yty-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 May 2020 19:22:55 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 04AJMlio065716; Sun, 10 May 2020 19:22:54 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30x63k5u5g-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 10 May 2020 19:22:52 +0000 Received: from abhmp0018.oracle.com (abhmp0018.oracle.com [141.146.116.24]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 04AJIJ7K015341; Sun, 10 May 2020 19:18:24 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <744818d3-e904-43a1-a3c1-a0a4a550ada1@default> Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 12:18:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Subject: RE: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy References: <<<20200506144423.GW24998@protected.rcdrun.com>>> <<>> <<<20200508132924.GI14650@protected.rcdrun.com>>> <<<87r1vukl86.fsf@web.de>>> <<<20200509042353.GA15309@protected.rcdrun.com>>> <<<87h7wonnuh.fsf@fliptop.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me>>> <<<20200510095646.GA22962@protected.rcdrun.com>>> <<<83y2pzdgt7.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<<20200510145503.GE28606@protected.rcdrun.com>>> <<<83sgg7ddtz.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<<20200510153311.GH28606@protected.rcdrun.com>>> <<<83r1vrdbc0.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<<6bc132d3-2d2d-4eb3-86dd-b818c1b856a2@default>>> <<<83mu6fd9q6.fsf@gnu.org>>> <> <<83k11jd8bs.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83k11jd8bs.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4993.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9617 signatures=668687 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2005100181 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9617 signatures=668687 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 clxscore=1015 spamscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 impostorscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2005100181 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, tomasn@posteo.net, 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, arthur.miller@live.com, bugs@gnu.support X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > > Please reconsider. >=20 > Done. >=20 > > Can you point to any other occurrence of referring > > to some mark other than `D' as a "flag" - anywhere > > in the Dired doc or code? All marks, including > > `D', are marks. Only `D' is called "flag". >=20 > "Flag" is just a word. So is "mark". What is your point? Only `D' has been called a flag by Emacs, until now. Dired actions affect marks differently, depending on the mark. There are 3 kinds of actions - 3 groups of marks: 1. Actions that affect only mark `*'. 2. Actions that affect only mark `D'. 3. Actions that affect all marks (including `*' and `D'). By "affect" I mean either act on a file line that has such a mark or add such a mark to a file line. How to refer to these actions, these groups of marks? Up until your change: 1. Emacs has always referred to #1 as "mark", not making specific mention that only `*' is affected. This is the most common kind of action and the most common kind of mark used. 2. Emacs has always, everywhere, referred ONLY to #2 as "flag", including the specific action of UNflagging as "unflag". That said, see #3. 3. Emacs has always, for actions that affect ALL marks or ANY mark (including `D' and `*'), referred to #3 as "mark". Could Emacs have spoken differently? Yes, here's a possibility (not taken by Emacs): 1. Refer ONLY to #1 (`*') as "mark". 2. Refer to #2 as "flag `D'", "flag for deletion". 3. Refer to #3 as "marks and flags" and "mark or flag", and point out specifically that `C', `D', etc. are "flags", whereas `*' is the only "mark". Either of those approaches, the one Emacs has used or the other, is doable, reasonable. But what you've done is instead inconsistent. In a single doc string you've changed the terminology, to refer to `C' as a "flag". No such change for other non-`*' marks. That means that doc for #3 is not only wrong but self-contradictory, as it still talks about the existence of multiple kinds of "mark" - different characters. You say you've reconsidered. I'd ask that you reconsider again. And please elaborate on your "'Flag' is just a word" response to my question: Can you point to any other occurrence of referring to some mark other than `D' as a "flag" - anywhere in the Dired doc or code? =20 That's not a rhetorical question. I know of no such occurrence. Do you? I think what I've said above is correct, regarding #1, #2, #3. Words matter. I gave a reason why I think Emacs chose to use "flag" for `D' - and only for `D': to flag something is to draw special attention to it. Your change works against that. If `C' is now referred to as a "flag" then `D' isn't special in that regard. Users can conclude that all marks except `*' are now "flags". Note, BTW, that mark `R' is handled the way mark `C' is handled. It comes from rename operations. Likewise, `H' (new hard links) and `Y' (new soft links). And each of those cases (copy, rename, hard link, soft link) has a user option that you can set to `t' to cause the target to be marked not with the default mark (`C' etc.) but with whatever mark the source file had. And the doc for each of those options talks about "marks" and "marking", not "flags" and "flagging". The doc for `dired-del-marker', on the other hand, says "flag", exceptionally. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 10 15:54:31 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2020 19:54:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50486 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXs1v-0005I4-1E for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 15:54:31 -0400 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:51549) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXs1t-0005Hq-Sr for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 15:54:30 -0400 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:41.210.154.28]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 00000000002F286B.000000005EB85BE9.00004B46; Sun, 10 May 2020 12:54:16 -0700 Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 22:54:09 +0300 From: Jean Louis To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy Message-ID: <20200510195409.GD6298@protected.rcdrun.com> References: <83y2pzdgt7.fsf@gnu.org> <20200510145503.GE28606@protected.rcdrun.com> <83sgg7ddtz.fsf@gnu.org> <20200510153311.GH28606@protected.rcdrun.com> <83r1vrdbc0.fsf@gnu.org> <6bc132d3-2d2d-4eb3-86dd-b818c1b856a2@default> <83mu6fd9q6.fsf@gnu.org> <83k11jd8bs.fsf@gnu.org> <744818d3-e904-43a1-a3c1-a0a4a550ada1@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <744818d3-e904-43a1-a3c1-a0a4a550ada1@default> User-Agent: Mutt/1.14.0 (2020-05-02) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, Eli Zaretskii , 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, tomasn@posteo.net, arthur.miller@live.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) * Drew Adams [2020-05-10 22:23]: > > > Please reconsider. > > > > Done. > > > > > Can you point to any other occurrence of referring > > > to some mark other than `D' as a "flag" - anywhere > > > in the Dired doc or code? All marks, including > > > `D', are marks. Only `D' is called "flag". > > > > "Flag" is just a word. > > So is "mark". What is your point? Only `D' has > been called a flag by Emacs, until now. > > Dired actions affect marks differently, depending > on the mark. There are 3 kinds of actions - 3 > groups of marks: > > 1. Actions that affect only mark `*'. > 2. Actions that affect only mark `D'. > 3. Actions that affect all marks (including > `*' and `D'). > > By "affect" I mean either act on a file line that > has such a mark or add such a mark to a file line. > > How to refer to these actions, these groups > of marks? Up until your change: > > 1. Emacs has always referred to #1 as "mark", > not making specific mention that only `*' > is affected. This is the most common kind of > action and the most common kind of mark used. > > 2. Emacs has always, everywhere, referred ONLY > to #2 as "flag", including the specific action > of UNflagging as "unflag". That said, see #3. > > 3. Emacs has always, for actions that affect ALL > marks or ANY mark (including `D' and `*'), > referred to #3 as "mark". > > Could Emacs have spoken differently? > Yes, here's a possibility (not taken by Emacs): > > 1. Refer ONLY to #1 (`*') as "mark". > > 2. Refer to #2 as "flag `D'", "flag for deletion". > > 3. Refer to #3 as "marks and flags" and "mark > or flag", and point out specifically that `C', > `D', etc. are "flags", whereas `*' is the only > "mark". > > Either of those approaches, the one Emacs has > used or the other, is doable, reasonable. > > But what you've done is instead inconsistent. > In a single doc string you've changed the > terminology, to refer to `C' as a "flag". No > such change for other non-`*' marks. > > That means that doc for #3 is not only wrong > but self-contradictory, as it still talks about > the existence of multiple kinds of "mark" - > different characters. > > You say you've reconsidered. I'd ask that you > reconsider again. And please elaborate on your > "'Flag' is just a word" response to my question: > > Can you point to any other occurrence of > referring to some mark other than `D' as a > "flag" - anywhere in the Dired doc or code? > > That's not a rhetorical question. I know of > no such occurrence. Do you? I think what I've > said above is correct, regarding #1, #2, #3. > > Words matter. I gave a reason why I think > Emacs chose to use "flag" for `D' - and only > for `D': to flag something is to draw special > attention to it. Your are rights that word matters. Then if I may ask, why is then "flag" introduced instead of "Delete mark"? How "flag" makes the deleting action more clear? It does not, if you ask me. Definition of a mark is very clear. Wordnet: 2. (4) marker, marking, mark -- (a distinguishing symbol; "the owner's mark was on all the sheep") flag on the other hand is not so clear. It does not provide definition for your intended action to draw special attention to it. In fact, marking something is drawing special attention to it already. So "flag" is for me less clear. Why should "flag" be used for "delete", why not "Delete" or "Mark delete"? Now note that the option "flag" is under the menu "Mark", so flag is a mark, it is adding to confusion. In my opinion, the Menu "Mark" should not have "flag", but rather "Delete" or "Delete mark": - Delete auto-save files - Delete backup files - Delete garbage files - Delete by extension or - Mark to delete auto-save files - Mark to delete backup files - Mark to delete garbage files - Mark to delete by extension Those are clear to me in that sense. Now these are not clear to me: - Flag extension -- how that can be clear what it does? Sure that I will find after some time what is meant, but I am saying, it is confusing and not user friendly. The Wordnet does not indicate that "flag" has the definition that you want, in the manner to distinguish it from "mark". It says "provide with a flag" and flag would be what? I will just put those definitions here down that could apply for some user. >From WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006) [wn]: flag n 1: emblem usually consisting of a rectangular piece of cloth of distinctive design 4: a rectangular piece of fabric used as a signalling device [syn: {flag}, {signal flag}] 2: provide with a flag; "Flag this file so that I can recognize it immediately" 5: become less intense [syn: {ease up}, {ease off}, {slacken off}, {flag}] So to flag in the meaning to provide with a flag, the Wordnet definition gives me only that, thus definitions are missing. I understand your point, I am just saying is not so easy to understand with "flag". With "mark" it is very easy to understand it: mark 1 definition found >From WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006) [wn]: mark 2: a distinguishing symbol; "the owner's mark was on all the sheep" [syn: {marker}, {marking}, {mark}] v 1: attach a tag or label to; "label these bottles" [syn: {tag}, {label}, {mark}] 5: make or leave a mark on; "the scouts marked the trail"; "ash marked the believers' foreheads" Now the definition you wanted to squeeze out of the "flag" to draw special attention to it, is actually under "mark" -- I speak only for Wordnet. to flag vs. to mark, those are synonyms. It is only in Emacs terminology that "flag" became something extra, however, it does not help the user to understand by reading from the menu that "flag" means "to mark for deletion". Jean From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 10 17:15:36 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2020 21:15:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50614 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXtIN-0001Lp-JI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 17:15:36 -0400 Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:41596) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXtIL-0001LX-0c for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 17:15:33 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 04ALEnuE173877; Sun, 10 May 2020 21:15:26 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=nhtfRadPicSUK0pxiijuZQMdMYSABXHqX8e3qEE42cA=; b=fwvIB++EpHoOdbEkWAZHt5AoltQrHQ/vCY4RVsDqSQ8aXYZ6qaSFvfEaTzYA4+OMnvWX /OkdxrDhwx9z0/c5Zt8H48oM9ByYUjZ+A2TcHpBacMLrGDqgHn1CRu48vAcdeQNQXWd0 GHZfVx9iTC6H0l7IoA/QvaW95pHZuYioKI0sFjAu/51kJCrA5hp/FI1xZDHtNs0p7Qtp UCCNiqhPWLyzU7moPwJCM+3OWL4IUnwbESj//Aq53NA53B/lF31zkmQcb2CkCejMcFqg JaATdLQzhhRaL52BmEwM7oEo1LvqOCRHxgzbR52iq0/EuWY6GKnM622Kdy1x6YIr6eoq Gw== Received: from userp3030.oracle.com (userp3030.oracle.com [156.151.31.80]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30x3gma3v6-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 May 2020 21:15:26 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 04AL3pu4126555; Sun, 10 May 2020 21:13:26 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by userp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30x6euj9fw-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 10 May 2020 21:13:26 +0000 Received: from abhmp0018.oracle.com (abhmp0018.oracle.com [141.146.116.24]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 04ALDIvR025661; Sun, 10 May 2020 21:13:18 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <5ac3067a-2f37-4122-8920-ca93d010c0dc@default> Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 14:13:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Jean Louis Subject: RE: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy References: <83y2pzdgt7.fsf@gnu.org> <20200510145503.GE28606@protected.rcdrun.com> <83sgg7ddtz.fsf@gnu.org> <20200510153311.GH28606@protected.rcdrun.com> <83r1vrdbc0.fsf@gnu.org> <6bc132d3-2d2d-4eb3-86dd-b818c1b856a2@default> <83mu6fd9q6.fsf@gnu.org> <83k11jd8bs.fsf@gnu.org> <744818d3-e904-43a1-a3c1-a0a4a550ada1@default> <20200510195409.GD6298@protected.rcdrun.com> In-Reply-To: <20200510195409.GD6298@protected.rcdrun.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4993.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9617 signatures=668687 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 bulkscore=0 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2005100197 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9617 signatures=668687 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 clxscore=1015 spamscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 impostorscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2005100198 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, Eli Zaretskii , 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, tomasn@posteo.net, arthur.miller@live.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > Words matter. I gave a reason why I think > > Emacs chose to use "flag" for `D' - and only > > for `D': > > to flag something is to draw special attention ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > to it. >=20 > Your are rights that word matters. Then if I may ask, why is then > "flag" introduced instead of "Delete mark"? I said what I _think_ is the reason "flag" was used for `D' (and ONLY for `D') - see above. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/flag#Verb: "To mark with a flag, especially to indicate the ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ importance of something." ^^^^^^^^^^ Not just to indicate something - to point it out - but to point it out as being of special importance. In this sense, and especially when used in contrast to "mark", it means to mark _specially_, i.e., more than the way other Dired marks mark. Emacs has always treated `D' _uniquely_, by giving it a different term ("flag"). And my _hypothesis_ (which I expressed) is that this is because `D' can cause problems - data loss - if you don't pay special attention to it. =20 I can't speak authoritatively about the reason this was done - I didn't decide it. It was done decades ago. > How "flag" makes the deleting action more clear? It does not, if you > ask me. Ask whomever wrote Dired and maintained it for 35 years. It may not make "the deleting action" more clear, especially to someone for whom English is not the first language. Both "mark" and "flag" point something out - that's true. But the fact that ONLY `D' is referred to as a "flag", and only it (not `C' or any other mark) is referred to as "flagging" the file for the given action, should draw _special_ attention to it - should flag it (!) as being of particular importance or meriting special attention. Maybe this will help a bit (maybe not): the English verb "flag" translates to French as "signaler". The verb "mark" translates as "indiquer" or "marquer". Now do you see the difference? They're related, but signaler is generally more active, more important, more urgent. Signaler means you're really trying to get someone's attention; you're not just indicating something. > 2. (4) marker, marking, mark -- (a distinguishing symbol; "the owner's > mark was on all the sheep") >=20 > flag on the other hand is not so clear. It does not provide definition > for your intended action to draw special attention to it. Yes, it does. See above, or try another dictionary. > In fact, marking something is drawing special attention to it > already. Yes, it's true that marking and flagging both draw attention to something. But "flag" is a bit stronger, especially if both are used in the same context (e.g. Dired), but for different things, and especially if the thing "flag" is used for (file deletion) is more serious. In any case, your argument is not with me. It's not I who chose "flag". My point is only that that's what Emacs does and has always done, and Emacs is quite consistent about it. See my previous mail. If someone (e.g. you) proposed to use only "mark" and never "flag", that would be OK. What's not OK, IMO, is to use both, but not use them in a consistent way. After Eli's change, we now have 2, and only 2, marks (`D' and `C') which we are calling "flags". It could be argued that there's something special about deleting. It's hard to argue that there's something special about copying and deleting (as opposed to renaming/moving and linking). > So "flag" is for me less clear. Why should "flag" be used for > "delete", why not "Delete" or "Mark delete"? See above. > Now note that the option "flag" is under the menu "Mark", so flag is a > mark, it is adding to confusion. It's in menu `Mark' because it is about marking, in general - flagging is a kind of marking. But `Flag' is a separate menu item from `Mark'. That item could have been called `Mark for Deletion'. But it wasn't. Emacs consistently uses "flag" for deletion - and only for deletion. In the case of the `Mark' menu, that makes each of the `Flag' items stand out from the `Mark' items. And rightfully so, as they all use `D'. They're all for deleting files - something to pay attention to. Would you have preferred this? Mark Unmark Mark for Deletion Mark Auto-save Files for Deletion Mark Backup Files for Deletion Mark Garbage Files for Deletion Mark Executables Mark Old Backups Mark Directories Mark Symlinks Unmark All Change Marks... That would have been OK, if a bit noisier and less readable. Again, I'm not the one who decided such things (long, long ago). > In my opinion, the Menu "Mark" should not have "flag", but rather > "Delete" or "Delete mark": >=20 > - Delete auto-save files > - Delete backup files > - Delete garbage files > - Delete by extension Not good. The action is NOT to delete anything. That's part of the point. This menu is only about marking various things in various ways. It makes no changes to files or the file system. The "flag" items are about deleting, but deleting is not their action. > or >=20 > - Mark to delete auto-save files > - Mark to delete backup files > - Mark to delete garbage files > - Mark to delete by extension >=20 > Those are clear to me in that sense. OK. Maybe file an enhancement request for that. I disagree that that's better, but I'm just one (other) user.=20 > Now these are not clear to me: >=20 > - Flag extension -- how that can be clear what it does? Sure that I > will find after some time what is meant, but I am saying, it is > confusing and not user friendly. >=20 > The Wordnet does not indicate that "flag" has the definition that you > want, in the manner to distinguish it from "mark". It says "provide > with a flag" and flag would be what? See above. It's English. If it's not understandable to some people then that's not great. But keep in mind that it is a common verb, and Dired has used it this way for decades (and Emacs has had lots of users for whom English is not the first language). > I will just put those definitions here down that could apply for some > user... I know what "flag" means. > So to flag in the meaning to provide with a flag, the Wordnet > definition gives me only that Try another dictionary. Ask (another) native English speaker. But the point is not that "flag" means what I pointed out. It's important that users can understand what's meant. So maybe someone (else) will agree to make a _wholesale_ change to all of the Dired descriptions, to never use "flag". Unless/until that happens, with Eli's change we have now moved from something consistent to something inconsistent. > I am just saying is not so easy to understand > with "flag". > With "mark" it is very easy to understand it: >=20 > Now the definition you wanted to squeeze out of the "flag" to draw > special attention to it, is actually under "mark" -- I speak only for > Wordnet. ... >=20 > to flag vs. to mark, those are synonyms. They are synonyms to some extent, in some contexts. Two different words are never completely synonymous. There are always some different connotations - nuances. > It is only in Emacs terminology that "flag" became something extra, No, it is not only in Emacs. Please look beyond Wordnet or, as I say, talk to another native English speaker about it. > however, it does not help the user to understand by reading from the > menu that "flag" means "to mark for deletion". I hear you. Someone else can decide whether to remove all use of "flag" from Dired because this was unclear to you. I have no problem with that, even though I think it would be ill-advised. What is not good is the inconsistency that was just introduced. But that's not the end of the world - it's just one small step backward. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 10 20:37:23 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2020 00:37:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50745 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXwRe-00010U-QK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 20:37:23 -0400 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.17.12]:42823) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXwRd-00010D-J2 for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 20:37:22 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=dbaedf251592; t=1589157391; bh=qcztz/5RYqlZtf5JxM9t6xazFc4FkJ3zpm4HG3dK9Do=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=BllIrjimFxiXnDcMO3WDG2Spy+rmDP5tpxaS4rZVvaFDlua5SP4YGfwUKFC3SMbhN uAJHZNWZwYwcpBJsND60g681dWsVQOB0uNCa7LIaDC/jjsHsLzPntH5wygmMhpPMJD SLCfTaiOheES2OsS6IRcyShLdXQkZJGgzj64VGZ0= X-UI-Sender-Class: c548c8c5-30a9-4db5-a2e7-cb6cb037b8f9 Received: from drachen.dragon ([88.67.107.170]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb105 [213.165.67.124]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MQgl2-1jmptA3NbS-00Ngcv; Mon, 11 May 2020 02:36:30 +0200 From: Michael Heerdegen To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy References: <861rnybf34.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200506144423.GW24998@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200508132924.GI14650@protected.rcdrun.com> <87r1vukl86.fsf@web.de> <20200509042353.GA15309@protected.rcdrun.com> <87h7wonnuh.fsf@fliptop.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <20200510095646.GA22962@protected.rcdrun.com> <83y2pzdgt7.fsf@gnu.org> <20200510145503.GE28606@protected.rcdrun.com> <83sgg7ddtz.fsf@gnu.org> <7979fef4-5df8-4997-95fd-c5be5887ab44@default> Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 02:36:29 +0200 In-Reply-To: <7979fef4-5df8-4997-95fd-c5be5887ab44@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Sun, 10 May 2020 09:26:01 -0700 (PDT)") Message-ID: <87eerrtiia.fsf@web.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:Zg1En+ZstB17D3hyFRd4w2tW6TVl0nvNMjkIXlAa+NQd8PTJDlw xnee7x/B0+HcgG5rkGJ2L438sMiLZXiFZutI83Zkiri8Yrnw1hLQHK6kpEYFPZVCVlzLfXb wwW+d/kV0oc/NFTjITeKgMqh3nphSi+xVpNSQ7gBZ/O2B6JtF5SMDJCwktmWdxgZl6h2cV8 94hcOeDTPHsP0H4hgwwHw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:+NqfcOq3akM=:5z/Z2lfVXZtDV/QaKX2rKN qpGn6ziW+1Omrb7vYwDUDtpoaIPBjYP2n6msCsrgyBZ5Bqaq28gXuZkrXrRDxNxLcxxRH5TiN 2mBrcjuzwB1h9B/TB8j8MlP0G4zyhzojXHVn8vrAOG7PagkVyPrbFtJIK4VNQzYsMpE1VoFN/ UBR9Ih4Ps3jA/V5pPBTMvc0eUjkOOm9NFXdA5TiY/zP+SENXT1af2idAZ8cY7+bCGF9DwmP/x TfFk/hQlrDezLTvERUz2643YWHfUev0yiLU25e+mlWnFSia1mQvZXyqY3+cZX6oo6YqI/y8Jw Owe0p63HH0O/kmpt9WWzHufpyHqM14+mYk+yAgyu+hAXC6rUrALdSVWjDs53BPj2g14cpE522 PD0x3QNG+Y75RzhzKth+mYqcp91sT5NJvbmioMWyN4CMVMEVPxu3jatzOO6OSGq1Pkijg5wv8 rOt840jlLqhDytAk4aFgKVTK6S/nfgPfXHwXFiChfdQbGQYnLGMJpfB1EwEM9Yc+/UnfDMFnw OBFeGXur78YOqGGHFam4CJRMLkc//S35QSthjPpOjQx26p5LcaCX5U2LtYJDH0OgI8O6pT3mt f4Eu3Koix7pxseLCE/XrCz2RPZf773rDyIppzoTaeX/DMKTQk3l9kc1Rq/ODVhTOso5bu7atd Syx25MPxltbzQ23ZBGITblrf+19wS28y3D0kZ6EVsA/SGgSiYSZjm0cWXgMWRsK7aSpDVGH10 MIdZeUaWwBlGnRsm34z7DKJAHd9XFFpyTCRXsnLLg1du5vWfYbZ3yOE9VWPChbmV/8oHRWnK+ hmvhsQrzUkHT0836whAQiz4B6m5iSeCczHjmXWKEs6YktdEZjcm6TkM3qDu6W43Nu4V8/iAPu aqqG/3wPT5B53d2MisJeMw6Tsr+h7Yp0iE7liOfuwP53sPnbrWuxRf7ABrF18EyRysYoI08yM z+jKvKjWRYyzbJFf8d8K0h8RkcjhKoILCodfsqS1aPYBQP4Ue5YVQmyhEH8ag8rUsZvrJvyol V/gBphMKaz48iuRu/F1RStYoSQPAHxU+cW3Ym7XEdtF8LMvEaukQIK3CTUNy9z+hMMt7LX8RM 7K4ZgtoziVIMgOUBQYZmCFQZmVvoF34FmxNXgZGCA8EM4UXln/TkXKIO1arNYWZoCxn8ivysF SsRL6dSVDRRbf7ZuiU7KVH59I7vpx/NJokzTJNy7a8Wo6q/qq9oP3WgZNHGSMast5pAX7BJ8C BjoUlXp3JHj9eTOx/ X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 Cc: arthur.miller@live.com, Eli Zaretskii , 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, tomasn@posteo.net, Jean Louis X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Drew Adams writes: > > Because t toggles marks, and C is not a mark, it's a flag. > > This is not true. Let's please not go there. But if you think so (and I somewhat agree), isn't then the first sentence in the docstring that Eli didn't touch: "Toggle marks: marked files become unmarked, and vice versa." even more confusing? I guess Eli wanted to avoid a sentence like "and files marked with marks other than the * mark don't count as marked." But the inconsistency goes much further, we say that commands operate on the "marked" files, but we mean only the *-marked files. So I guess the terminology is "marked with" applies to any mark and "marked" only to files marked with *, and "unmarked" means "doesn't have any mark". Oh dear, it's like learning English modal verbs. I think we can be more specific in the docstring, and I also don't like to introduce the second term "flag" here since it is somewhat linked to deletion indeed, and it's meaning is as fluent as "mark" - that doesn't help. Ok, would something like this be a compromise? - Toggle marks: marked files become unmarked, and vice versa. - Files marked with other flags (such as `D') are not affected. + Toggle marks: marked files become unmarked, and vice versa. + This means that files marked with `*' are unmarked and files that don't + have any mark are marked with `*'. Files marked with any + characters other than `*' are uneffected. (the term "marker character" is already used in the manual.) Regards, Michael. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 10 22:33:56 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2020 02:33:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50824 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXyGR-0004Wr-Rc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 22:33:56 -0400 Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:47866) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jXyGP-0004Wd-Jr for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 22:33:54 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 04B2X1bg007179; Mon, 11 May 2020 02:33:47 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=GvBZa/K4i4GdVQZdfYhzIF4vmbIkhNUk5WDYpTE7+uk=; b=cHUpz4GZvMqPjwRT1cU7uXS9lAl04TzCCi1aKLPPdaxKy0EX2ZCiAP85oNjbCcz4RVoN W1y44HtJEUQepEaGgTv0mt+6LXES+ihMQiq/tS+nqBbODwwEh+tfoFOeeJzE+Hc7daLh 9FmHB9hhvMk+93YQQdnn2HL9kguezf4dPOi3byD/O+rjDc34zAZnYne3an6E230IBkQ+ MCD7r0Xfzx6FNCdSBXNazU18NXvXMNZu0j0wKlLrJbcTklA3T+xuHlH+TCtL96gDebw+ B6V89Ec5VMKPbYupqMuhOyP9vEvvFmlV8HeE1PozqqyZCbVXifNnC91zLesBPOWbjV/Q 7Q== Received: from aserp3030.oracle.com (aserp3030.oracle.com [141.146.126.71]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30x3gmagad-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 May 2020 02:33:47 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 04B2TSif019999; Mon, 11 May 2020 02:33:47 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30x63kqrwf-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 11 May 2020 02:33:46 +0000 Received: from abhmp0018.oracle.com (abhmp0018.oracle.com [141.146.116.24]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 04B2Xdbp023342; Mon, 11 May 2020 02:33:40 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <8552ae27-0c1c-4048-a258-2d2dc030f502@default> Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 19:33:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Michael Heerdegen Subject: RE: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy References: <861rnybf34.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200506144423.GW24998@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200508132924.GI14650@protected.rcdrun.com> <87r1vukl86.fsf@web.de> <20200509042353.GA15309@protected.rcdrun.com> <87h7wonnuh.fsf@fliptop.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <20200510095646.GA22962@protected.rcdrun.com> <83y2pzdgt7.fsf@gnu.org> <20200510145503.GE28606@protected.rcdrun.com> <83sgg7ddtz.fsf@gnu.org> <7979fef4-5df8-4997-95fd-c5be5887ab44@default> <87eerrtiia.fsf@web.de> In-Reply-To: <87eerrtiia.fsf@web.de> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4993.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9617 signatures=668687 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=998 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2005110016 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9617 signatures=668687 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 clxscore=1015 spamscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 impostorscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2005110016 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 Cc: arthur.miller@live.com, Eli Zaretskii , 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, tomasn@posteo.net, Jean Louis X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > > Because t toggles marks, and C is not a mark, it's a flag. > > > > This is not true. Let's please not go there. >=20 > But if you think so (and I somewhat agree), isn't then the first > sentence in the docstring that Eli didn't touch: >=20 > "Toggle marks: marked files become unmarked, and vice versa." >=20 > even more confusing? I guess Eli wanted to avoid a sentence like "and > files marked with marks other than the * mark don't count as marked." I already agreed that the doc string could be clearer. I suggested this: Toggle `*' marks: unmark marked files, and vice versa. But perhaps this would be even better (since "those" refers to "`*' marks"): Toggle `*' marks: unmark those marked, and vice versa. Or (72 chars): Toggle `*' marks: unmark files marked `*'; mark unmarked files with `*'. IOW, explicitly say that toggling applies to `*' marks. > But the inconsistency goes much further, we say that commands operate > on the "marked" files, but we mean only the *-marked files. See above. (Are you talking about `t' here still? Why do you say "commands" (plural)?) > So I guess the terminology is "marked with" applies to any mark and > "marked" only to files marked with *, and "unmarked" means "doesn't > have any mark". Oh dear, it's like learning English modal verbs. I don't understand. Perhaps I'm missing something. No, there's nothing special about "marked with". `t' replaces all `*' marks with a space - unmarks them. `t' replaces all unmarked (space) with a `*' mark. > I think we can be more specific in the docstring, and I also don't like > to introduce the second term "flag" here since it is somewhat linked to > deletion indeed, and it's meaning is as fluent as "mark" - that doesn't > help. It's _entirely_ linked to deletion, in Dired. Or it was, until Eli's change. > Ok, would something like this be a compromise? >=20 > - Toggle marks: marked files become unmarked, and vice versa. > - Files marked with other flags (such as `D') are not affected. >=20 > + Toggle marks: marked files become unmarked, and vice versa. > + This means that files marked with `*' are unmarked and files that > don't > + have any mark are marked with `*'. Files marked with any > + characters other than `*' are uneffected. unaffected, not uneffected. That text is fine by me, even if a bit verbose ("This means"). I'd still propose mentioning `*' in the first sentence (the main one) - it's about `*' marks (only). But your text is clear enough, to me. > (the term "marker character" is already used in the manual.) FWIW I don't understand why you added that part in parens to your message. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon May 11 01:26:37 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2020 05:26:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50966 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jY0xY-0001Yg-HO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 01:26:36 -0400 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:49089) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jY0xV-0001YJ-IC for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 01:26:35 -0400 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:41.210.154.28]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 000000000006FD13.000000005EB8E1FD.00007742; Sun, 10 May 2020 22:26:20 -0700 Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 08:26:15 +0300 From: Jean Louis To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy Message-ID: <20200511052615.GB2820@protected.rcdrun.com> References: <83sgg7ddtz.fsf@gnu.org> <20200510153311.GH28606@protected.rcdrun.com> <83r1vrdbc0.fsf@gnu.org> <6bc132d3-2d2d-4eb3-86dd-b818c1b856a2@default> <83mu6fd9q6.fsf@gnu.org> <83k11jd8bs.fsf@gnu.org> <744818d3-e904-43a1-a3c1-a0a4a550ada1@default> <20200510195409.GD6298@protected.rcdrun.com> <5ac3067a-2f37-4122-8920-ca93d010c0dc@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <5ac3067a-2f37-4122-8920-ca93d010c0dc@default> User-Agent: Mutt/1.14.0 (2020-05-02) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, Eli Zaretskii , 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, tomasn@posteo.net, arthur.miller@live.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) * Drew Adams [2020-05-11 00:16]: > > > Words matter. I gave a reason why I think > > > Emacs chose to use "flag" for `D' - and only > > > for `D': > > > to flag something is to draw special attention > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > to it. > > > > Your are rights that word matters. Then if I may ask, why is then > > "flag" introduced instead of "Delete mark"? > > I said what I _think_ is the reason "flag" was > used for `D' (and ONLY for `D') - see above. > > https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/flag#Verb: > > "To mark with a flag, especially to indicate the > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > importance of something." > ^^^^^^^^^^ > > Not just to indicate something - to point it out - > but to point it out as being of special importance. > > In this sense, and especially when used in contrast > to "mark", it means to mark _specially_, i.e., more > than the way other Dired marks mark. I found the definition in the Merriam Webster, thank you, that is right, to flag means to mark it to attract attention. Attracting attention only relates to deletion in Emacs. But the logics is individual in my opinion. For example I like to mark files so that they are renamed or copied, and that is what matters to me, that is where I need my attention. On files marked for deletion, I have less attention, well, why? Because the files are marked for deletion, they are less important. Even if I by accident remove the D flag, it does not matter, as those files are less important. So to use "flag" for "Mark for deletion" in my individual case is not same meaning and is not marking for attention. > > How "flag" makes the deleting action more clear? It does not, if you > > ask me. > > Ask whomever wrote Dired and maintained it for 35 > years. > > It may not make "the deleting action" more clear, > especially to someone for whom English is not the > first language. Both "mark" and "flag" point > something out - that's true. The meaning of "to mark with special attention" is not synonym to "to mark for deletion". The menu items like "Mark -> Flag" is ambiguous. You pointed out yourself to the definition of the "to flag" -- and there is one good on Merriam-Webster too, so none of those definitons are saying that "flagging" is equivalent to "marking for deletion", they are saying that there is some special mark, not which one. > But the fact that ONLY `D' is referred to as a > "flag", and only it (not `C' or any other mark) > is referred to as "flagging" the file for the > given action, should draw _special_ attention to > it - should flag it (!) as being of particular > importance or meriting special attention. >From a viewpoint of user-friendly menus, I don't think that introduction of a "flag" with special meaning only in Emacs is helping users. > In any case, your argument is not with me. It's > not I who chose "flag". My point is only that > that's what Emacs does and has always done, and > Emacs is quite consistent about it. I am reading quote from the Emacs manual: ‘x’ Delete files flagged for deletion (‘dired-do-flagged-delete’). This could mean that there can be other flags, not only `D' because `x' is deleting files flagged for deletion, and that could, from viewpoint of a user, imply that there are other flags, not only for deletion. To summarize, for me, the manual is pretty clear, and user menu "Mark" is not intuitively clear, as without reading the manual one cannot know what means "Flag". > What's not OK, IMO, is to use both, but not use > them in a consistent way. After Eli's change, we > now have 2, and only 2, marks (`D' and `C') which > we are calling "flags". dired-toggle-marks is an interactive compiled Lisp function in ‘dired.el’. (dired-toggle-marks) Toggle marks: marked files become unmarked, and vice versa. Files marked with other flags (such as ‘D’) are not affected. ‘.’ and ‘..’ are never toggled. As always, hidden subdirs are not affected. The inconsistency is already in that documentation: - "marked with other flags (such as 'D')" implies that the C is also flag. Isn't that already inconsistency? > It could be argued that there's something special > about deleting. It's hard to argue that there's > something special about copying and deleting (as > opposed to renaming/moving and linking). You look individually, for your own needs. For me the files marked for deletion are not special, they are less special, well they go to "trash", right? Those files which have to be copied or marked for processing, are for me special files. And I use * mark for that as it is offered so. So most important marks, which require special attention are never "D" files, but those marked with "m", the marked files with "*". > Would you have preferred this? > > Mark > Unmark > Mark for Deletion > Mark Auto-save Files for Deletion > Mark Backup Files for Deletion > Mark Garbage Files for Deletion > Mark Executables > Mark Old Backups > Mark Directories > Mark Symlinks > Unmark All > Change Marks... > > That would have been OK, if a bit noisier and > less readable. Again, I'm not the one who > decided such things (long, long ago). That looks logical and understandable, it removes the ambiguity from the menu "Mark" and becomes user friendly. And I guess it would remove manual sections that are trying to explain the difference between flagging and marking too. If there would be clear English definition of "to flag" that it means "to mark for deletion", there would be no difference to introduce new special Emacs definition to tell users what flagging means. I am not against new definitions of words, I am just saying how I see that from viewpoint of a user. User in the first place, is not reading the manual, and what if manual is not distributed together with the emacs? > > Now these are not clear to me: > > > > - Flag extension -- how that can be clear what it does? Sure that I > > will find after some time what is meant, but I am saying, it is > > confusing and not user friendly. > > > > The Wordnet does not indicate that "flag" has the definition that you > > want, in the manner to distinguish it from "mark". It says "provide > > with a flag" and flag would be what? > > See above. It's English. If it's not > understandable to some people then that's > not great. But keep in mind that it is a > common verb, and Dired has used it this way > for decades (and Emacs has had lots of users > for whom English is not the first language). I am saying it only from user friendly view point. Myself I have marked extension many times. The menu "Flag extension" is not clear because if all others become clear that "to flag" means "to mark for deletion", then "mark extension" would mean "to mark extension for deletion". That menu item should be "Flag by extension" and not "Flag extension", because rarely somebody wish to "mark extension for deletion". If Dired and Emacs used it for decades, that does not necessarily mean that menu items are clear and user friendly. Menu item need not be short, some probably less important menu items are very long like "Use directory names in bufer names" is pretty long and is there all the time. Jean From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon May 11 01:35:11 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2020 05:35:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50990 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jY15q-0001uv-W1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 01:35:11 -0400 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.17.11]:43471) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jY15o-0001ub-Sz for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 01:35:09 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=dbaedf251592; t=1589175265; bh=ih4dE1KOFq9pcZJ1/x+TsHmPMOAwDdBD8Y1d1+kQ0xg=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=n3RLd8JuD3Yq75ohK7PpmF6ONdzPe+d6N9Yth3exBobN4EOOzxlULy0tJfB2u+TI+ V8fuFFh7le1uc5LZSC4p8snOOyCSlKlzD8tKEuqzMrkBVmr/VfMJUzJc1i0Lf5DSBD UAwDhIW20E6ar+Qh3Ecxu7GfCbOvmZ1k4DgZqsUU= X-UI-Sender-Class: c548c8c5-30a9-4db5-a2e7-cb6cb037b8f9 Received: from drachen.dragon ([88.67.107.170]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb105 [213.165.67.124]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MuFD5-1jFOhg2WUP-00uZng; Mon, 11 May 2020 07:34:25 +0200 From: Michael Heerdegen To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy References: <861rnybf34.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200506144423.GW24998@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200508132924.GI14650@protected.rcdrun.com> <87r1vukl86.fsf@web.de> <20200509042353.GA15309@protected.rcdrun.com> <87h7wonnuh.fsf@fliptop.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <20200510095646.GA22962@protected.rcdrun.com> <83y2pzdgt7.fsf@gnu.org> <20200510145503.GE28606@protected.rcdrun.com> <83sgg7ddtz.fsf@gnu.org> <7979fef4-5df8-4997-95fd-c5be5887ab44@default> <87eerrtiia.fsf@web.de> <8552ae27-0c1c-4048-a258-2d2dc030f502@default> Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 07:34:24 +0200 In-Reply-To: <8552ae27-0c1c-4048-a258-2d2dc030f502@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Sun, 10 May 2020 19:33:39 -0700 (PDT)") Message-ID: <87eerrvxun.fsf@web.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:BD/YQdEpisfSSOxSHdsBB4RHM3xTXNGRAJQ9bR41Q2maDTgofQw /TpH0eZcMcpOcf8Hpa/MqKrq15KToUniK38fwSC1STgpclRiR4o48auFPnmm1OqAyfBnOeQ tjoIwHpj8kqakT1MoCnH29OTlLfH0zMqxiwGr0ZprcGFvtsCtBdnwsiQWnpx0z9zTKvA7dZ Uu2mRrg/seHW/aswnPcfw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:m8lCfR92uC0=:cTjdiMhbEQNzIxb4C5S8M6 0fI5HwkmkEWD7mqntj1qJPXii/lc/vElbHSpvAyR53PUxTOuqNLUA2PhOKNOswo455o0xJOhR UrIzqMkwJM3V49WIbqhN3HhKrauILRkBLedjbGhlVV9k1qP7PScGStQKeLm57Q+9pVUck9lw3 /Fucda+uDQAd+260r2hrNaGBzUSNET3EgSPvOqafeiF2zD+vpF/GsejgdXIb9+RhG4kqpxiLn 2I9rQLwOUDYnETZly5knJMiQ5GHYqiwFC02cR3maBhIfiPo51wsiA7bN9fjyhY84/yw8+MDzF j9OZZHWFOcKApoWK1e771R868ZielcT10F7M6QhWOx4BZgu2/BOK1aojXhYUdj+HXP+6luh65 wyNduqVcFCt7uezrfZucTzg23QQSBreNvlasu6AJqX4sJKUV5wrj5r+fkkzgKXvtAeZ+Sa/uE w/UX+BzbflBJpUl9FDnVtByMCiSyaorHzYGrXWptWyPymivM5D/5/2DRKvv3AktHnDcagaSUh 0nnKvCnDbMcbUJ6sSkDtVUwlW0xkjoxO0OXVd5ViyNZV5+qYzqSc2ifXbuM3HUp1mp9WzZEQG CU5glos9s4S1ZWIaWdPo5etqTSRvL+ZH0n4LGwlzQWeUDJMOGgOvBRGtmmGPg6IWJrVAWjgCC DbQVjDShZaZY4Ii3lzkhuvJg9RDazyDu+KqW6+CT06U3ZAXphjsRWjO9koeXnla9xCfeyvReS uHFK0dDHj7SvHn3ZFYCVNU6rIQj+zg55+itCefgnDXwDBrPM16YJF+zj4JPByMzSGCComBKvT ehEse2p/ko+8eAaQXAQiZrCaLGgxfUmH1iW9M0xUJy7t+aTcvZr/mQ/C2Xtq1XV4e5ZQibEJi IU2MVStCGX6LQP5DBkjitGnqmIbNr0Jl/GeIa6HP/el0R+b0ODpIz6+tyPzN0Ma4TkZAxrI6x GDJgHz5YRhTaqeCt1QGl30p7otjxDTtuw6U4jxS4PSkIK40LnSyuTZIvMlTX2kCIJhaGETYvD 6vq5ILFTEjbMBs0qNBRO01Uj1TOQDUGStnon+M5BmCn/c3q5rpplTvYytene2moefdWys2pjf +5AkCp9B4z7HGsUCLmhktuQGJBXFsZaUryaQKp6+F/iG+vA/S/6Z3I5KoKPd1Fz0YAp5zwQP5 nPItYiadfbzvJvkUZekofOCA64+w4ampnQFL5XtF+pU+Vp/CjMryHYku+ZDTtXeY8vyaTqggM YoFx/eVH+cLWbBZn3 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 Cc: tomasn@posteo.net, 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, arthur.miller@live.com, Jean Louis X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Drew Adams writes: > IOW, explicitly say that toggling applies to `*' marks. Yes, exactly. > > But the inconsistency goes much further, we say that commands operate > > on the "marked" files, but we mean only the *-marked files. > > See above. (Are you talking about `t' here still? > Why do you say "commands" (plural)?) No, I mean commands, like dired-do-delete is an interactive compiled Lisp function in `dired.el'. [...] Delete all marked (or next ARG) files. It doesn't say *-marked. "Marked" typically means *-marked most of the time. > > (the term "marker character" is already used in the manual.) > > FWIW I don't understand why you added that part > in parens to your message. I only wanted to make clear that it's not a new term but one users that read the manual are familiar with. And it's maybe less misguiding than "flag" (personally I could also live with just "character", since marks are really just that). Michael. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon May 11 09:16:09 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2020 13:16:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51582 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jY8Hw-0001yQ-Ne for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 09:16:09 -0400 Received: from mail-vi1eur05olkn2019.outbound.protection.outlook.com ([40.92.90.19]:2311 helo=EUR05-VI1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jY8Hu-0001xh-Ar for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 09:16:07 -0400 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=diulMG23CZr4wLcN2f1whczrxJypDF4mf3x+7xUOXLKjl2tazy/V3vuZRWQxEMtxpHensFjInwguOz9m+gft0IhtsOuwqRUmMXx9SCfjUsYQKPYPZQsqrG1xRP1Yseh3Vel18qxXu1xYOPDVub6Q9DVMgsCryRqOLxVJfB7FX7kq3yMyvL96j1H3IBYwPD0S+0wWoaypK6ok+9ygieXLBHV2GD71rOnIt3Uzwu/etV2d50pop1qRGU0UXh7GLUQvCyorEXoZNBRS7cPQasr95isMVlNkHs65jieETj4zGnnBQEdV7amLPM9CcZB0hK2qHOHjTRY6O46g4jMY2vUhhA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; 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Mon, 11 May 2020 13:15:59 +0000 Received: from VI1PR06MB4526.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:fc11::41) by AM6EUR05FT019.mail.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:fc11::279) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2979.27 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 11 May 2020 13:15:59 +0000 X-IncomingTopHeaderMarker: OriginalChecksum:D21DC16C9CA30E8C4771B2244760DF9CE3F41BE4CC9DF6DF8C4A7E6B8EDD026F; UpperCasedChecksum:E79EC9F4BC711E974551DBEB936DAEE03D8858DC62B76DA5890BD374BAFBEE3D; SizeAsReceived:9465; Count:49 Received: from VI1PR06MB4526.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::49f0:2314:a959:bec5]) by VI1PR06MB4526.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::49f0:2314:a959:bec5%7]) with mapi id 15.20.2979.033; Mon, 11 May 2020 13:15:59 +0000 From: Arthur Miller To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy References: <861rnybf34.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200506144423.GW24998@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200508132924.GI14650@protected.rcdrun.com> <87r1vukl86.fsf@web.de> <20200509042353.GA15309@protected.rcdrun.com> <87h7wonnuh.fsf@fliptop.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <20200510095646.GA22962@protected.rcdrun.com> <83y2pzdgt7.fsf@gnu.org> <20200510145503.GE28606@protected.rcdrun.com> <83sgg7ddtz.fsf@gnu.org> <7979fef4-5df8-4997-95fd-c5be5887ab44@default> Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 15:15:57 +0200 In-Reply-To: <7979fef4-5df8-4997-95fd-c5be5887ab44@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Sun, 10 May 2020 09:26:01 -0700 (PDT)") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-ClientProxiedBy: AM5PR0202CA0008.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:203:69::18) To VI1PR06MB4526.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:803:ac::17) X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <87d07a1uk2.fsf@live.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Received: from pascal.homepc (90.230.29.56) by AM5PR0202CA0008.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:203:69::18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2979.27 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 11 May 2020 13:15:58 +0000 X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <87d07a1uk2.fsf@live.com> X-TMN: [eOI0dKdy6eeJThSJkNv5IJJ7xxeO46Of] X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-IncomingHeaderCount: 49 X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 569e7a49-1652-435e-6926-08d7f5ad71fe X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: AM6EUR05HT136: X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: Nvz9RVuydpYSRKsR1C8ddchAgwMBzEKIGRmUgIf+bnabsFaz0ehCymTypg2WFQpe1Fp51Wajx47k77geE7naArJJcEhvcD5TVFe5YPX6E+Uxbw+p56218FhDVysEbNOuQiOp5RUzvGfJ1ghMUGvjx9NpgvN2k46G/gGJTOrVWdvN7oR24R9wuql9E2E3uTSB9Bf8lcG3BjzzxdvyItnCsQ== X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:0; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:VI1PR06MB4526.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:; DIR:OUT; SFP:1901; X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData: tHWdeaAzk0SMPWIbiJVbz6K/mpWoOy8HFtWINpcmMn81jmeT45cx761xNruIBe5r+lQ+4hYmScVzt4U1a9aLE/xOKFhoz7uXwxRV91WSHSCeZA8uam63eY019uC+uyg15c3AtY6EsRW4Dh7hiE6DcA== X-OriginatorOrg: live.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 569e7a49-1652-435e-6926-08d7f5ad71fe X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 May 2020 13:15:59.2447 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM6EUR05HT136 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, Eli Zaretskii , 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, tomasn@posteo.net, Jean Louis X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Drew Adams writes: >> > If m is for marking then (dired-toggle-marks) should work with >> > success, because why it should not work if the file is flagged with >> > C, because it is not a file for deletion. >> > >> > If is is for marking and d for flaging means to prepare for deletion, >> > then "m" does not flag, it marks, so there are no "other flags" but >> > there is just one mark and other flags. If menu separates marks from >> > flags, then the function should separate marks from flags too, maybe >> > except for flagged files. >> > >> > Confusing, but I don't see a logic why I should not be able to toggle >> > marks on files that have been recently copied or renamed. >>=20 >> Because t toggles marks, and C is not a mark, it's a flag. > > This is not true. Let's please not go there. > > The doc has always spoken of "flagging" only for the > deletion mark, `D', and that mark is also called a > "flag" (_the_ flag). It is the only mark that has > ever been called a "flag". It flags a possible > danger -- "Hey! Over here. Watch out." > > But `D', `C', and any others are all marks. You can > create any marks you like - use any char. > > It's true that, for simplicity, the operation of > "marking" generally refers to marking with `*'. > > Command `* c' (`dired-change-marks') is specifically > about changing marks - substituting one char for > another. > > As for the general question from Jean-Louis, I (and > Michael) already answered it: > > * If you want `t' to UNmark files that have a mark > (e.g. `C') other than `*' then you need to first > change those `C' marks to `*' (`* c C *' does > that for `C' marks). > > * If you want `t' to _mark_ the files marked `C' > then you need to first unmark them. You can do > that in two ways, depending on what you really > want: > > 1. Unmark ALL marks, of any kind. `U' or `M-DEL > RET' does this. > > 2. Change just the `C' marks to ` ' (space char). > `* c C SPC' or `M-DEL SPC' does this. > ("Marking" with a space char =3D unmarking.) > > Why/when would you ever want to use `* c C *' > instead of `U'? When you also had some other marks > (`D', `E' or whatever), which you did _not_ want to > change to `*'. > > And yes, unmarking applies also to `D' marks (aka > flags). Unmarking (unflagging) is not something > dangerous or noteworthy. Flagging (`D') is. > > Dired copy-file commands mark with `C' in the target > directory listing. This is a feature, not a bug. > > And `t' toggles only files marked `*' and unmarked > files. This is also a feature. The most common, > most active, use of marks is with the `*' mark. > > The general "marking" commands use `*', by default. > It is the default mark character, the default value > of `dired-marker-char'. Its doc tells you that is > is "what the do-commands look for, and what the > mark-commands store". > > I think the doc is pretty clear, but yes, it might > require some careful reading. > >> If the doc string which you quoted several times said this: >>=20 >> Toggle marks: marked files become unmarked, and vice versa. >> Flagged files (indicated with flags such as =E2=80=98C=E2=80=99 and = =E2=80=98D=E2=80=99, not >> with =E2=80=98*=E2=80=99) are not affected, and =E2=80=98.=E2=80=99 an= d =E2=80=98..=E2=80=99 are never toggled. >>=20 >> would that prevent the confusion? > > No, that's worse. It introduces `C' as a "flag". > "Flag" and "flagging" need to be reserved for `D'. > > It should always be about "flagging for deletion". > This is important because deletion is consequential. > That's presumably the reason for having always used > a special term for `D' marks. > > "Flag", in the Dired context, is like a red flag -- > a warning, of sorts: "Pay attention! This marking > is particularly important." That's also the reason > we font-lock `D'-marked lines specially (red!). > > It would probably help if the first line of the > doc string explicitly called out `*' marks. > Maybe something like this: > > Toggle `*' marks: unmark marked files, and vice versa. So people are supposed to keep in their mind all this distinction when it is a flag and when it is a mark? So we are supposed to "flag" for deletion, but "mark" for copy. Is it really necessary? Does it really need to be that complicated, I mean, cognitively speaking? Does it really add anything in quality if you distinct between "marking" and "flagging" for deletion? What is wrong to just simply "mark" files with different "flags"?=20 I am not native english speaker, but it feels I could equally "flag" and "mark" my files for deletion. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon May 11 12:03:33 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2020 16:03:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53014 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jYAtx-00081P-Hk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 12:03:33 -0400 Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:58396) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jYAtw-000816-2k for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 12:03:32 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 04BFqMSc144819; Mon, 11 May 2020 16:03:26 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=qRX0BAVp6yeVRK3l3mExduiqftHzXuBxleR7WeHOJZc=; b=efS18WnIPpATOHRw4B7H72Ms82nI37K3+IkUxzMSwLBP68Z6/knbfRqjwBX6gXqo8FM4 +uSie312QZFvxmPYwPtR3W18yoKtPmOn0tk0nxS1+8sZuW1N0WstvRp8eKUeGRi0kcuy rsJHt/EKXsimsNj5lbltJJKkhy+2/6QZyuXpUJC2Z7ZAnVvs3D6Glm8Sdk2vx6eNObeg +r2TnSHv0CYlBCvzsIOWUAzX8+ZDjAsaBG8YDV377i9KpUMkDSfJ9ZszQqeD/tpmQUoD F+VmAeVzHUmqAkDjEIaFqKl9z4KDKaLzPUV8pPwqQfAZmgAchmbUfYvt2WnggZrAOyzr cg== Received: from userp3020.oracle.com (userp3020.oracle.com [156.151.31.79]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30x3gme1dj-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 May 2020 16:03:24 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 04BFsHlN028337; Mon, 11 May 2020 16:03:23 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by userp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30x69r9q4b-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 11 May 2020 16:03:23 +0000 Received: from abhmp0015.oracle.com (abhmp0015.oracle.com [141.146.116.21]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 04BG3Idw024499; Mon, 11 May 2020 16:03:19 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <6b83a5d6-6774-42b5-af7e-0bca59a3a351@default> Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 09:03:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Jean Louis Subject: RE: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy References: <83sgg7ddtz.fsf@gnu.org> <20200510153311.GH28606@protected.rcdrun.com> <83r1vrdbc0.fsf@gnu.org> <6bc132d3-2d2d-4eb3-86dd-b818c1b856a2@default> <83mu6fd9q6.fsf@gnu.org> <83k11jd8bs.fsf@gnu.org> <744818d3-e904-43a1-a3c1-a0a4a550ada1@default> <20200510195409.GD6298@protected.rcdrun.com> <5ac3067a-2f37-4122-8920-ca93d010c0dc@default> <20200511052615.GB2820@protected.rcdrun.com> In-Reply-To: <20200511052615.GB2820@protected.rcdrun.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4993.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9618 signatures=668687 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2005110125 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9618 signatures=668687 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 clxscore=1015 spamscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 impostorscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2005110125 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, Eli Zaretskii , 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, tomasn@posteo.net, arthur.miller@live.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > (dired-toggle-marks) >=20 > Toggle marks: marked files become unmarked, and vice versa. > Files marked with other flags (such as =E2=80=98D=E2=80=99) are not affec= ted. > =E2=80=98.=E2=80=99 and =E2=80=98..=E2=80=99 are never toggled. > As always, hidden subdirs are not affected. >=20 > The inconsistency is already in that documentation: >=20 > - "marked with other flags (such as 'D')" implies that the C is also > flag. >=20 > Isn't that already inconsistency? Yes, agreed. It should say something like "marked with a character other than `*'". > > It could be argued that there's something special > > about deleting. It's hard to argue that there's > > something special about copying and deleting (as > > opposed to renaming/moving and linking). >=20 > You look individually, for your own needs. For me the files marked for > deletion are not special, they are less special, well they go to > "trash", right? When you delete files they go to trash only if option `delete-by-moving-to-trash' is non-nil. Its default value is `nil'. But yes, any individual can feel that something else is more important or worrisome than file deletion. The default behavior of Emacs, and the way Emacs speaks about itself, is decided by the Emacs developers, not you or I or any particular individual user. It's a judgment call. And sometimes some users don't agree with some of the judgment calls. We can file bug/enhancement reports or chime in on mailing list discussions or speak up in other ways. But ultimately someone has to decide/judge. As individuals we don't always get what we want. In the case at hand, someone decided that marking for file deletion is more worth signaling that other marking for other operations. I, for one, am fine with that decision. You apparently are not. What's important is that the doc and UI are clear about the behavior, so all users know what to expect. > Those files which have to be copied or marked for processing, are for > me special files. And I use * mark for that as it is offered so. So > most important marks, which require special attention are never "D" > files, but those marked with "m", the marked files with "*". OK. > The menu "Flag extension" is not clear because if all others become > clear that "to flag" means "to mark for deletion", then "mark ^^^^ > extension" would mean "to mark extension for deletion". Did you mean "flag", not "mark", after "then"? > That menu item should be "Flag by extension" and not "Flag extension", > because rarely somebody wish to "mark extension for deletion". OK by me. File a bug report. > If Dired and Emacs used it for decades, that does not necessarily mean > that menu items are clear and user friendly. Menu item need not be > short, some probably less important menu items are very long like "Use > directory names in bufer names" is pretty long and is there all the > time. Agreed. Lots of Emacs menu items could use more love. FWIW: I've made quite a few changes to Dired menus in my own code (Dired+). For one thing, I've separated flagging for deletion from marking otherwise, and I've separated unmarking from both: menus `Flag', `Mark', and `Unmark'. And each of those menus has more items. And each of them is a submenu of menu `Marks' (flags are marks). https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/DiredPlus#MarksMenu ___ You'll note, BTW, that some commands that act on marks act on all marks, including `D' flags, whereas other commands act only on `*' marks. For example, `M-}' (`dired-next-marked-file') moves to the next mark, of any kind. This is why, although it's OK for a command such as `dired-toggle-marks' (`t') to be named as it is, its doc should make clear that it acts only on `*' marks. That's the fix needed for this bug: better doc for `t'. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon May 11 12:18:19 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2020 16:18:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53080 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jYB8F-000090-Ho for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 12:18:19 -0400 Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:42862) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jYB8D-00008j-W9 for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 12:18:18 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 04BGCDZM177216; Mon, 11 May 2020 16:18:11 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=maHKX0qlQFkqfE7Ay5tPAWh4wsyao5ZY+C3zAhoxJGE=; b=JMrfqjMhFppJpyZ7JntdVoTtrjEA866VbBJCd9VNzcM2ctMZ79gJ33ePyIE8fBQ01OZ7 C32zau2EvuJPXgxNZGHXV4/qBJo90xuwBdvfO9WgQ/6PO38cNQscxW8dZWugR9W5Az13 WJktGeKEczQF4N8D2GSX9++k/H89VIXU/zdOfx45Mk5EZm4EAFTID8ftWc0wslKDiwwj Oj4y035sWO9cnAlzjeQucPymiYOJMw9Evp3I+utTPh3s5JDxUkPuuvd1Nr1TqnHUFy/+ ZiiUR+DokAehLSxJmBhobcw+Tih7EdbrAHtPzbNfrXDTUrJSR3o0S9MiD2t/DmXZaJ8s Fg== Received: from aserp3020.oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [141.146.126.70]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30x3gme455-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 May 2020 16:18:11 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 04BGCR5o186150; Mon, 11 May 2020 16:18:11 GMT Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30xbgev3g6-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 11 May 2020 16:18:10 +0000 Received: from abhmp0015.oracle.com (abhmp0015.oracle.com [141.146.116.21]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 04BGI8jx009050; Mon, 11 May 2020 16:18:08 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 09:18:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Michael Heerdegen Subject: RE: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy References: <861rnybf34.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200506144423.GW24998@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200508132924.GI14650@protected.rcdrun.com> <87r1vukl86.fsf@web.de> <20200509042353.GA15309@protected.rcdrun.com> <87h7wonnuh.fsf@fliptop.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <20200510095646.GA22962@protected.rcdrun.com> <83y2pzdgt7.fsf@gnu.org> <20200510145503.GE28606@protected.rcdrun.com> <83sgg7ddtz.fsf@gnu.org> <7979fef4-5df8-4997-95fd-c5be5887ab44@default> <87eerrtiia.fsf@web.de> <8552ae27-0c1c-4048-a258-2d2dc030f502@default> <87eerrvxun.fsf@web.de> In-Reply-To: <87eerrvxun.fsf@web.de> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4993.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9618 signatures=668687 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2005110127 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9618 signatures=668687 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 clxscore=1015 spamscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 impostorscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2005110127 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 Cc: tomasn@posteo.net, 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, arthur.miller@live.com, Jean Louis X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > IOW, explicitly say that toggling applies to `*' marks. >=20 > Yes, exactly. >=20 > > > But the inconsistency goes much further, we say that commands > > > operate on the "marked" files, but we mean only the *-marked files. > > I mean commands, like >=20 > dired-do-delete is an interactive compiled Lisp function in > `dired.el'. [...] >=20 > Delete all marked (or next ARG) files. >=20 > It doesn't say *-marked. "Marked" typically means *-marked most of the > time. You're absolutely right. The fix for this bug could usefully be to correct the doc of any command that acts only on `*' marks but says it acts on "marks". Doc that says that a command acts on "marks" should be only for a command that acts on all marks. Doc for a command that acts only on certain marks should say so. > > > (the term "marker character" is already used in the manual.) > > > > FWIW I don't understand why you added that part > > in parens to your message. >=20 > I only wanted to make clear that it's not a new term but one users that > read the manual are familiar with. And it's maybe less misguiding than > "flag" (personally I could also live with just "character", since marks > are really just that). I don't see the connection. "Flag" has specifically been used only for `D', the mark for deletion. ?D is the marker character for the mark (flag) `D'. ?D is a character. A visual `D' mark in the buffer is, yes, created by putting a ?D character in the mark position. But that's a nit. If what you're suggesting is that the doc not speak of "flag `D'" but speak instead of "marker character ?D" or "marker character D" then I understand. Is that it? That's OK by me, provided the same is done everywhere, for each mark: "marker character C" etc. I don't think that's really helpful - it seems overly verbose and makes reading more cumbersome. But if others feel it's an improvement, fine. My concern here is that Emacs be consistent in its explanations and terminology. Another concern is that things be clear and easy to understand. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon May 11 12:41:36 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2020 16:41:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53086 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jYBUZ-0000sz-FF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 12:41:36 -0400 Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:49480) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jYBUX-0000sm-QC for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 12:41:22 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 04BGX1uS149245; Mon, 11 May 2020 16:41:15 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=kQuKbqGYv84nqyPh+tM3VXZVWzlIWMlkpZTKD4op3j8=; b=v+X7sBYxoTEaqLYnh/liFvqhrVoYGD+gBa+dWENRiLywaWUcwCi8tbo5ZU3w87Dne7Ec uCcZhBugrPcA2R2mdKMjSI64jmO7eBQaDSyx25da8kyF+CqjC8AJpbpgxOPbI0lzLKne /lqmyvoKuJ9TVqkuBOwiH0i9RAOt2cEkODD+iRogtJnWDSNuXr6RtqBYi5s7uIyqOkbl mpALCP6CZmZJQUZzyAFCi9Ea6OF2OU4OFZxjEfqM49nSGYSh8pZsYKoo9VdbQxc0Z477 wUUhVP+7yK6BHa26TGtxAW67u0YXdKo1cv1Dec2l+T/QIdgyaLOCw8qiC3u9sQkm317N Pw== Received: from userp3020.oracle.com (userp3020.oracle.com [156.151.31.79]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30x3mbp6vm-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 May 2020 16:41:15 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 04BGcD97194694; Mon, 11 May 2020 16:41:15 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30x69rc2y9-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 11 May 2020 16:41:15 +0000 Received: from abhmp0015.oracle.com (abhmp0015.oracle.com [141.146.116.21]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 04BGfB5t016880; Mon, 11 May 2020 16:41:11 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <28ab7673-c1da-4be9-a428-cd4bfded001a@default> Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 09:41:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Arthur Miller Subject: RE: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy References: <861rnybf34.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200506144423.GW24998@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200508132924.GI14650@protected.rcdrun.com> <87r1vukl86.fsf@web.de> <20200509042353.GA15309@protected.rcdrun.com> <87h7wonnuh.fsf@fliptop.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <20200510095646.GA22962@protected.rcdrun.com> <83y2pzdgt7.fsf@gnu.org> <20200510145503.GE28606@protected.rcdrun.com> <83sgg7ddtz.fsf@gnu.org> <7979fef4-5df8-4997-95fd-c5be5887ab44@default> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4993.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9618 signatures=668687 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2005110131 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9618 signatures=668687 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 impostorscore=0 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 clxscore=1015 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2005110130 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, Eli Zaretskii , 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, tomasn@posteo.net, Jean Louis X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > So people are supposed to keep in their mind all this distinction when > it is a flag and when it is a mark?=20 Not necessary, really, I think. Pretty much every time "flag" is used it's accompanied by "deletion". (Extra emphasis, I imagine.) > So we are supposed to "flag" for > deletion, but "mark" for copy. Is it really necessary? Necessary? No. What's necessary, besides read, eval, print? Someone thought it was helpful. Probably someone who was worried about users accidentally deleting files. Maybe the same someone who implemented prompting for deletion confirmation. > Does it really need to be that complicated, Is it really complicated? As one user, I don't think so. But YMMV. > I mean, cognitively speaking? Does it > really add anything in quality if you distinct between "marking" and > "flagging" for deletion? Someone thought so. I agree with whoever that was. But I'm just one user, like you. > What is wrong to just simply "mark" files > with different "flags"? I don't think anyone said there's anything wrong with that. But in that case, there's also no reason to introduce two different terms - just "mark" with different "marks". > I am not native english speaker, but it feels I could equally "flag" > and "mark" my files for deletion. It's fine with me if everyone wants to remove mention of "flag" and "flagging". If you do that, please do it well, everywhere. Say explicitly which marks are involved for each action, unless an action applies to all marks. If you make such a change, it's not just a fix for this minor bug. You'll need to adjust text, menus, etc. everywhere, to be consistent. (IMHO, there's no need in that case to also change function and variable names. Ideally, yes, if use of "flag" is removed then Dired functions and vars with "flag" in their name should be renamed. Similarly, but with less importance, functions and vars with "mark" in their name should ideally be renamed if they affect only certain marks - to say that. But I wouldn't ask for any such renamings, personally.) My only position here has been to say what the Dired convention is and has always been. And to say that I think it should be respected consistently. Any inconsistencies are candidates for correction. The convention doesn't come from me. I'm just the messenger, reminding us about it. As a user who knows it, I've benefitted from it (when I see "flag" I know it's about deletion). But I won't argue that the convention can't be changed. If someone proposes to change the convention, e.g. to remove any mention of "flag", then please do that consistently. That's all. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon May 11 12:58:36 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2020 16:58:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53113 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jYBlE-0001Hn-07 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 12:58:36 -0400 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:59291) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jYBlC-0001HY-57 for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 12:58:34 -0400 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:41.210.145.198]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 00000000002F286B.000000005EB98430.00003DC6; Mon, 11 May 2020 09:58:23 -0700 Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 19:58:18 +0300 From: Jean Louis To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy Message-ID: <20200511165818.GL11267@protected.rcdrun.com> References: <83r1vrdbc0.fsf@gnu.org> <6bc132d3-2d2d-4eb3-86dd-b818c1b856a2@default> <83mu6fd9q6.fsf@gnu.org> <83k11jd8bs.fsf@gnu.org> <744818d3-e904-43a1-a3c1-a0a4a550ada1@default> <20200510195409.GD6298@protected.rcdrun.com> <5ac3067a-2f37-4122-8920-ca93d010c0dc@default> <20200511052615.GB2820@protected.rcdrun.com> <6b83a5d6-6774-42b5-af7e-0bca59a3a351@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <6b83a5d6-6774-42b5-af7e-0bca59a3a351@default> User-Agent: Mutt/1.14.0 (2020-05-02) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, Eli Zaretskii , 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, tomasn@posteo.net, arthur.miller@live.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > In the case at hand, someone decided that marking > for file deletion is more worth signaling that other > marking for other operations. I, for one, am fine > with that decision. You apparently are not. What's > important is that the doc and UI are clear about the > behavior, so all users know what to expect. I can adapt myself. I love how Emacs is created and many people participated and participate in its creation and improvements. I am myself alright, and I am also alright with many new things to learn in Emacs. Just looking from a new user perspective, it is still my own viewpoint with addition of my opinion how new user looks at it. I have used Emacs since 1999. For many years I have not even been aware of Dired. I have delivered computer courses back in 1990-1992. And I have delivered few GNU free software seminars in Germany. And all the time I have been using mostly Rox file manager of Midnight Commander, in the shell. I was not aware of dired, not at all. Emacs was for editing. If I open a file, where in the Tools says "File manager" -- but it should in my opinion. It is just in recent years that I became heavy user of dired, as I have extended my personal use to varieties that I could not implement in any other file manager. I am old but new user. So for me it was not easily accessible to discover Dired in so many years. And I program myself all the last 21 years. File menu has no such "File manager" menu. Of course I know today that I can open directory and I am in dired, but I was opening directory even before, and I did not know that I am in dired, all I knew is that I can open file for editing, that is what I knew. That is one example. Unspoken from the fact that I can use Emacs similar to the shell, as the main window to all of my computing needs. Nobody explained me that, I had to discover it myself and understand what other people are speaking about it. That I find so powerful. > FWIW: > > I've made quite a few changes to Dired menus in my own > code (Dired+). For one thing, I've separated flagging > for deletion from marking otherwise, and I've separated > unmarking from both: menus `Flag', `Mark', and `Unmark'. > And each of those menus has more items. And each of them > is a submenu of menu `Marks' (flags are marks). > > https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/DiredPlus#MarksMenu I cannot find it in list-packages Jean From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon May 11 13:46:07 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2020 17:46:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53198 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jYCVD-0002Tf-1y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 13:46:07 -0400 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:53676) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jYCV9-0002Su-Vh for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 13:46:06 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 04BHb8PC158222; Mon, 11 May 2020 17:45:57 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=vaMod89j6l5F0uU85U1e5AZvrMsaKGoweJsRR7c2Wl4=; b=D+fTpnq1cu1pgT9zBEJEt0KgrI/sd4FgCfe9+igxpQqBuHF9f0lgQ7oNMMusyiJ10ji4 UoxCYMsRtbIeufZX+k7R15j1Dc8jwhBXkkQDP5v+qnpcAKfUGxeUGjKrExChjXf4JpbF 0RYUUZMHX0MTB9oefWaahK27PTPuE3wt4zuQDZaaU2YEx/s6/o6Es3D2cGNt8kZBy1K4 uHMgc6IKoF+aAKb2xykoLJyFnog8kobB/3uIyfOepjlqHnGCzzEDcqTKbTeKslvJB15I jq2wzXNdwJWXP+zhVbeOP2Jp50Xbam6pJgKuxpqrtXx27p9tY9mSDbP6wmFYaEGSIPWI TQ== Received: from userp3030.oracle.com (userp3030.oracle.com [156.151.31.80]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30x3gsejg4-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 May 2020 17:45:57 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 04BHhsvo117857; Mon, 11 May 2020 17:45:57 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by userp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30x6ewfpnn-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 11 May 2020 17:45:56 +0000 Received: from abhmp0015.oracle.com (abhmp0015.oracle.com [141.146.116.21]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 04BHjpB8010935; Mon, 11 May 2020 17:45:51 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 10:45:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Jean Louis Subject: RE: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy References: <83r1vrdbc0.fsf@gnu.org> <6bc132d3-2d2d-4eb3-86dd-b818c1b856a2@default> <83mu6fd9q6.fsf@gnu.org> <83k11jd8bs.fsf@gnu.org> <744818d3-e904-43a1-a3c1-a0a4a550ada1@default> <20200510195409.GD6298@protected.rcdrun.com> <5ac3067a-2f37-4122-8920-ca93d010c0dc@default> <20200511052615.GB2820@protected.rcdrun.com> <6b83a5d6-6774-42b5-af7e-0bca59a3a351@default> <20200511165818.GL11267@protected.rcdrun.com> In-Reply-To: <20200511165818.GL11267@protected.rcdrun.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4993.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9618 signatures=668687 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 bulkscore=0 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2005110139 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9618 signatures=668687 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 malwarescore=0 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 priorityscore=1501 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 clxscore=1015 bulkscore=0 phishscore=0 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2005110138 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, Eli Zaretskii , 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, tomasn@posteo.net, arthur.miller@live.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > [background info and some suggestions about menus] > If I open a file, where in the Tools says "File manager" -- but it > should in my opinion. ... >=20 > File menu has no such "File manager" menu. Of course I know today that > I can open directory and I am in dired, but I was opening directory > even before, and I did not know that I am in dired, all I knew is that > I can open file for editing, that is what I knew. I suggest that you use `M-x report-emacs-bug' for such requests. That's for enhancement requests as well as for bug reports. Saying it here instead is OK for our info, but it won't be tracked, and likely won't be followed up as an actual request. > > I've made quite a few changes to Dired menus in my own > > code (Dired+). For one thing, I've separated flagging > > for deletion from marking otherwise, and I've separated > > unmarking from both: menus `Flag', `Mark', and `Unmark'. > > And each of those menus has more items. And each of them > > is a submenu of menu `Marks' (flags are marks). > > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/DiredPlus*M > arksMenu__;Iw!!GqivPVa7Brio!MasXZpDxN0Aqh653P0X2J9UzdtMsJllJnv6FUOk4cNg > jhclIcRl0zc9F-NvSkDT9$ >=20 > I cannot find it in list-packages There's no package for it. It's a standalone Lisp library. If you want to try it: At the top of that Dired+ web page you see a link to the library, `dired+.el'. Here's its URL: https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/dired%2b.el The Download button there has this URL: https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/download/dired%2b.el Just download it, byte-compile it (optional, recommended), and load it. To byte-compile it: `B' in Dired on its line. To load it: `L' in Dired on its line (or the dired+.elc line, after byte-compiling it). To load it systematically, from your init file, you can put the file's location in your `load-path' and then put `(require 'dired+)' in your init file. (Or you can build an autoloads file for it using `update-file-autoloads', then load that from your init file.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon May 11 23:21:22 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 May 2020 03:21:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53862 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jYLTu-0004aw-Cd for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 23:21:22 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:53212) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jYLTr-0004af-Rl for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 23:21:20 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:58544) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jYLTl-0005W5-UD; Mon, 11 May 2020 23:21:13 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jYLTb-000545-2B; Mon, 11 May 2020 23:21:03 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Jean Louis In-Reply-To: <20200511052615.GB2820@protected.rcdrun.com> (message from Jean Louis on Mon, 11 May 2020 08:26:15 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy References: <83sgg7ddtz.fsf@gnu.org> <20200510153311.GH28606@protected.rcdrun.com> <83r1vrdbc0.fsf@gnu.org> <6bc132d3-2d2d-4eb3-86dd-b818c1b856a2@default> <83mu6fd9q6.fsf@gnu.org> <83k11jd8bs.fsf@gnu.org> <744818d3-e904-43a1-a3c1-a0a4a550ada1@default> <20200510195409.GD6298@protected.rcdrun.com> <5ac3067a-2f37-4122-8920-ca93d010c0dc@default> <20200511052615.GB2820@protected.rcdrun.com> Message-Id: Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 23:21:03 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, tomasn@posteo.net, 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, arthur.miller@live.com, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > I found the definition in the Merriam Webster, thank you, that is > right, to flag means to mark it to attract attention. Since deleting a file is the most drastic thing Dired can do to it, I think it is reasonable to use "flag" to mean "mark for deletion." Since we are dicussing so many questions, let's leave this alone so as to avoid the need to discuss it. -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed May 20 02:38:08 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 May 2020 06:38:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52022 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jbIMi-0003IT-Lt for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 May 2020 02:38:08 -0400 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:56851) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jbIMh-0003ID-AZ for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 May 2020 02:38:07 -0400 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:41.210.147.182]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 000000000009FD03.000000005EC4D047.00002529; Tue, 19 May 2020 23:37:58 -0700 Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 09:37:43 +0300 From: Jean Louis To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy Message-ID: <20200520063743.GB3314@protected.rcdrun.com> References: <83mu6fd9q6.fsf@gnu.org> <83k11jd8bs.fsf@gnu.org> <744818d3-e904-43a1-a3c1-a0a4a550ada1@default> <20200510195409.GD6298@protected.rcdrun.com> <5ac3067a-2f37-4122-8920-ca93d010c0dc@default> <20200511052615.GB2820@protected.rcdrun.com> <6b83a5d6-6774-42b5-af7e-0bca59a3a351@default> <20200511165818.GL11267@protected.rcdrun.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.14.0 (2020-05-02) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, Eli Zaretskii , 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, tomasn@posteo.net, arthur.miller@live.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) * Drew Adams [2020-05-11 20:46]: > If you want to try it: > > At the top of that Dired+ web page you see a link > to the library, `dired+.el'. Here's its URL: > > https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/dired%2b.el > > The Download button there has this URL: > > https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/download/dired%2b.el It is useful, thank you. And why not include some of those functions in Emacs? Can you send it to Emacs to be included? Jean From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed May 20 12:53:39 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 May 2020 16:53:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54159 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jbRyM-0000GJ-PC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 May 2020 12:53:38 -0400 Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:59714) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jbRyK-0000G5-Dt for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 May 2020 12:53:36 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 04KGrT9X047031; Wed, 20 May 2020 16:53:30 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=bNEDnPKzQXl+jTxG9phXKMEd0Q46IpzVZxDU2lixcew=; b=M/1JwY8U0xI4qv6orNS5eR7hqj1olGLs61boOzCgU3p5qbg0W/NfZlkoVj5t34LjYzhQ C1+Em3z7gdnLL0n39V7LqQOw2SAKb3KsbbK3rCAvGvoaAgr/G6wo64GDEcjinNQ5Gr1I 9sQRNoQdYF3jaS5fqULrplaSDrMQuL5kp+wpYMZitZ9qDWSkFyFRP7vfSXk/ehEQre8B BJdwvNLtA3BtjOj/ttF6fKhvsUvAXDIJ/Liod5bJIGVpfExVVDUBK/PmSxjQ/ez483BM kK0Gqduq/pN8ZWL9TS8MBnyLgwpRXGRx1t6rtRkUid5ow8qPbf813I0iMHf2B2807x+G hQ== Received: from aserp3020.oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [141.146.126.70]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 3127krc9dp-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 May 2020 16:53:29 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 04KGrM2M062596; Wed, 20 May 2020 16:53:26 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 312t3852m1-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 20 May 2020 16:53:25 +0000 Received: from abhmp0008.oracle.com (abhmp0008.oracle.com [141.146.116.14]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 04KGqtZu008791; Wed, 20 May 2020 16:52:56 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <516d2bdf-bb35-4846-87e0-f43376b03210@default> Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 09:52:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Jean Louis Subject: RE: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy References: <83mu6fd9q6.fsf@gnu.org> <83k11jd8bs.fsf@gnu.org> <744818d3-e904-43a1-a3c1-a0a4a550ada1@default> <20200510195409.GD6298@protected.rcdrun.com> <5ac3067a-2f37-4122-8920-ca93d010c0dc@default> <20200511052615.GB2820@protected.rcdrun.com> <6b83a5d6-6774-42b5-af7e-0bca59a3a351@default> <20200511165818.GL11267@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200520063743.GB3314@protected.rcdrun.com> In-Reply-To: <20200520063743.GB3314@protected.rcdrun.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4993.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9627 signatures=668686 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=940 phishscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2004280000 definitions=main-2005200136 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9627 signatures=668686 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 clxscore=1015 priorityscore=1501 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxlogscore=966 malwarescore=0 cotscore=-2147483648 lowpriorityscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2004280000 definitions=main-2005200136 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, Eli Zaretskii , 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, tomasn@posteo.net, arthur.miller@live.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > And why not include some of those functions in Emacs? Can you send it > to Emacs to be included? I've offered all of its code to Emacs many times. And in the past I've suggested certain parts in particular, and sometimes submitted patches. The only such change I recall being accepted was to highlight `w' for writable permission in group and other columns. And the face for that by default is `default', which means that to get the highlighting you have to know that face exists and customize it. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed May 20 13:08:40 2020 Received: (at 41097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 May 2020 17:08:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54180 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jbSCu-0000pQ-3P for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 May 2020 13:08:40 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-f52.google.com ([209.85.221.52]:35181) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jbSCr-0000p6-U2 for 41097@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 May 2020 13:08:38 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-f52.google.com with SMTP id j5so3960112wrq.2 for <41097@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 20 May 2020 10:08:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version; bh=GHH10AVemszkwPkiLs85mMvg3AshaJiSRmAkwc2Bdvw=; b=qqxxBYV1ZnRzq3SLzSzqk9vM+8RKLLVTVXVKrwOXboOcSjzhyuOSKviOocVsqn/xMF 7bkAOjKtEELIDHlie8xfHsdU8qSvYqiLW4p320frIMeKbxdLBNyIyYFQjGlLkmzDqR1k Q9xYdyPneYNyKzIu5+KYhDvA3D/sU5vWbuX38XxPHiR8A2/1qL+1FAZDDAks+g5rambA q+WhljszXkYDzaio5QLiXuM3/NVFUKH79rsWFtT8CdklkF1vTbUZ7UYYUfQZXBgQ3KLa OijQwuzVdh3LVCNr9x9CTISCtMZGbDMY1nY2cpos6wFFZLN84V8drjNDC2bLD3QcLy5F 0bbw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version; bh=GHH10AVemszkwPkiLs85mMvg3AshaJiSRmAkwc2Bdvw=; b=oEe6rcg0VskSYXdhYHXAsaycE7NVwNFmBz0I207fxfoYTr0lGI5CgQK2WB7mEwO1SP SzFw6MS0QwDAmjfGWSeB79mIC80vPqHj20LXqi6DiPXabMMbA1YGsdeI5BsN7iO8e0A6 RorZQVBIoMl5PthYuI61tquPz9XKqkmDRqEw2/B5y7DkXgL//egzgYcG+cMO03Xdgqpj 3S3w6cYZCR73G1vXAEcxLeH9jaClYVb5ZfGXLlO/arFXe/vnEPEYAMGGaocI3ihX4clb pIwLlW9IRf5jRf35N4cyL5dWv9nS+KfcgrF+rd+lXtQjhY+mg3PGDPsKeekoTy9jFStX UxvA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531GwVyF7FSnpCRLWGCgQD7K4Y55c1b5sQIgdYvCHd+utTxP/UCi hcW75ANHyqmK+Gfiwl7g1tw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxqfQ9A+9K0NDP7twnrnqNOkIXdqmGFyGV7D+dBus3Dgmmmq14LWUJLxJZunZ7oIJrm1OIbNA== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:4e8f:: with SMTP id e15mr4906026wru.91.1589994511913; Wed, 20 May 2020 10:08:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rpluim-mac ([2a01:e34:ecfc:a860:c5f8:2243:27b4:9468]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w15sm3506275wmi.35.2020.05.20.10.08.30 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 20 May 2020 10:08:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Pluim To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy References: <83mu6fd9q6.fsf@gnu.org> <83k11jd8bs.fsf@gnu.org> <744818d3-e904-43a1-a3c1-a0a4a550ada1@default> <20200510195409.GD6298@protected.rcdrun.com> <5ac3067a-2f37-4122-8920-ca93d010c0dc@default> <20200511052615.GB2820@protected.rcdrun.com> <6b83a5d6-6774-42b5-af7e-0bca59a3a351@default> <20200511165818.GL11267@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200520063743.GB3314@protected.rcdrun.com> <516d2bdf-bb35-4846-87e0-f43376b03210@default> Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 19:08:30 +0200 In-Reply-To: <516d2bdf-bb35-4846-87e0-f43376b03210@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Wed, 20 May 2020 09:52:54 -0700 (PDT)") Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 41097 Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, tomasn@posteo.net, 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, arthur.miller@live.com, Jean Louis X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> On Wed, 20 May 2020 09:52:54 -0700 (PDT), Drew Adams said: >> And why not include some of those functions in Emacs? Can you send it >> to Emacs to be included? Drew> I've offered all of its code to Emacs many times. Drew> And in the past I've suggested certain parts in Drew> particular, and sometimes submitted patches. If you set things up so you have commit access, then the need to offer patches is much reduced. Robert From unknown Thu Sep 11 23:47:56 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2020 11:24:07 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator