From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 27 20:26:37 2020 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Apr 2020 00:26:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38426 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTE57-0001ZM-Jy for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 20:26:37 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:43294) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTE56-0001ZF-7c for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 20:26:36 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55198) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTE55-0005l5-L8 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 20:26:36 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:48212) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTE55-00015J-CF for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 20:26:35 -0400 Received: from [2607:fea8:3fe0:17d:3c6d:3db7:9fd3:f352] (port=44802 helo=localhost) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jTE54-0004jx-AV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 20:26:34 -0400 From: Amin Bandali To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: [PATCH] Add "p" and "n" convenience bindings to help-mode-map Organization: GNU Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 20:26:33 -0400 Message-ID: <87blnctpza.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="==-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) --==-=-= Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Hello, The following binds "p" to backward-button, and "n" to forward-button in help-mode-map for more conveniently jumping between buttons in *Help* buffers. I have found myself constantly reaching for these in *Help* buffers after using helpful [0] for a while. [0]: https://github.com/Wilfred/helpful I thought about adding these to button-map itself, but that seemed like a more invasive change, and I wasn't sure about its side effects e.g. in non-read-only buffers. The patch is against emacs-27, since it's a trivial and hopefully completely harmless change. --=-=-= Content-Type: text/x-diff Content-Disposition: inline; filename=0001-Add-p-and-n-convenience-bindings-to-help-mode-map.patch Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From=20efcca34ed0cab882318e2654dd667e31f6d32511 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Amin Bandali Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 20:06:55 -0400 Subject: [PATCH] Add "p" and "n" convenience bindings to help-mode-map * lisp/help-mode.el (help-mode-map): Bind "p" to backward-button, and "n" to forward-button for more conveniently jumping between buttons in *Help* buffers. =2D-- lisp/help-mode.el | 2 ++ 1 file changed, 2 insertions(+) diff --git a/lisp/help-mode.el b/lisp/help-mode.el index bae8281147..0f8380255e 100644 =2D-- a/lisp/help-mode.el +++ b/lisp/help-mode.el @@ -37,6 +37,8 @@ help-mode-map (let ((map (make-sparse-keymap))) (set-keymap-parent map (make-composed-keymap button-buffer-map special-mode-map)) + (define-key map "p" 'backward-button) + (define-key map "n" 'forward-button) (define-key map [mouse-2] 'help-follow-mouse) (define-key map "l" 'help-go-back) (define-key map "r" 'help-go-forward) =2D-=20 2.25.0 --=-=-=-- --==-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; 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Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:02:25 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 03SGqgQM106307; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:02:24 GMT Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by userp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30mxpgfy08-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:02:22 +0000 Received: from abhmp0018.oracle.com (abhmp0018.oracle.com [141.146.116.24]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 03SH2LTO002148; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:02:22 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <5474d002-e1e0-48f7-8eb4-2ca2280cf79d@default> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 10:02:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Amin Bandali , 40916@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: RE: bug#40916: [PATCH] Add "p" and "n" convenience bindings to help-mode-map References: <87blnctpza.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <87blnctpza.fsf@gnu.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4993.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9605 signatures=668686 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxlogscore=999 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 suspectscore=0 spamscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2004280133 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9605 signatures=668686 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 clxscore=1011 priorityscore=1501 mlxlogscore=999 impostorscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2004280133 X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40916 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) > The following binds "p" to backward-button, and "n" to forward-button > in help-mode-map for more conveniently jumping between buttons in *Help* > buffers. I have found myself constantly reaching for these in *Help* > buffers after using helpful [0] for a while. We already have TAB and S-TAB. TAB has been there forever, and S-TAB was added because it was claimed to be "standard" or "conventional" in some way. And TAB and S-TAB are the same keys we use in Info (where `n' and `p' move forward/backward among node siblings). Are we adding redundant keys now just because someone gets used to them in some other app or 3rd-party library? Nothing prevents a user from binding `n' and `p' that way. And nothing prevents a library from having a minor mode that binds them. And Emacs not binding them by default means they remain available for something else in the future. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 28 13:33:52 2020 Received: (at 40916) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Apr 2020 17:33:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41323 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTU7D-0007If-RL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 13:33:52 -0400 Received: from ted.gofardesign.uk ([67.225.143.91]:54244) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTU6x-0007IE-D7 for 40916@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 13:33:50 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=marxist.se; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=cwZAC/7/fAZh7/8Xn/dJROXvc0BacEkcS6QHbWW+TsU=; b=YQ0u7MtqYwo3/2SPia4JpmK/uO 5XycHqmoDt010UQbLtsRu/BIh+ZdEssglj7UsTtxo4FAsd2oPTEfc/JpEdDW1rU1BscrGfS+uqUul mVp/x5BvlTviSY/HOT3NWkSHHJFQ9TW9FcrOn6ZyBPPNKrHILPQG843sozFHKEkIwRQjrowoerlL8 IJJT12u1MDbA1efq+fmv/F9Yo1zk44k50D01mZTh+vAOyXLUBfPmJPAAG8RNcWEemVaoZCCLIC4Rj lr0x3AIdIRnfIs+D7Gjk7lVKW/D3I8h2ZCtGJOoJ5WTlcGz4ZP4mvBdfG0lyxQ7h+YrSxV6bdVCnA ngCh3/vQ==; Received: from h-4-70-69.a785.priv.bahnhof.se ([155.4.70.69]:34794 helo=localhost) by ted.gofardesign.uk with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1jTU6r-000Pyi-L5; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 13:33:29 -0400 From: Stefan Kangas To: Amin Bandali Subject: Re: bug#40916: [PATCH] Add "p" and "n" convenience bindings to help-mode-map In-Reply-To: <87blnctpza.fsf@gnu.org> (Amin Bandali's message of "Mon, 27 Apr 2020 20:26:33 -0400") References: <87blnctpza.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 19:33:27 +0200 Message-ID: <87blnb7bx4.fsf@stefankangas.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ted.gofardesign.uk X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - marxist.se X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: ted.gofardesign.uk: authenticated_id: stefan@marxist.se X-Authenticated-Sender: ted.gofardesign.uk: stefan@marxist.se X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40916 Cc: 40916@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Amin, Amin Bandali writes: > The following binds "p" to backward-button, and "n" to forward-button in > help-mode-map for more conveniently jumping between buttons in *Help* > buffers. I have found myself constantly reaching for these in *Help* > buffers after using helpful [0] for a while. Thanks, I like the idea. I tried it, and it seems useful. But I have one concern. Is there anything else we could use those keys for? For example, what about navigating sections in the file, or even (next|previous)-line? Let's say we introduce a "foldable" help buffer, such that minor mode documentation would be collapsed by default. (Sorry, I can't find the feature request now, but it's in the bug tracker somewhere.) Will this key binding still be the one we want? > The patch is against emacs-27, since it's a trivial and hopefully > completely harmless change. I think we should do this on master to let people test the change and get used to it. Maybe we will want to change it before release. Best regards, Stefan Kangas From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 28 13:41:29 2020 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Apr 2020 17:41:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41370 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTUEU-0007WI-Qp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 13:41:29 -0400 Received: from mail-qk1-f171.google.com ([209.85.222.171]:44479) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTUEQ-0007Vn-TC for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 13:41:19 -0400 Received: by mail-qk1-f171.google.com with SMTP id h124so5482015qke.11 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 10:41:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=jKHDNrrSN0J0RnFsXrV2/n+nTdcUTPumA890XoUMPzg=; b=QpJXFAUQOmiWdF+n7xI12J+0RoXWDXXqxXbv1oUNvmaA9yuYfgNMpYLaW+8EqBctq5 ZI64cey/3d89dodATWTtYsNUqqIw8reF6bVssFC9q25hHGAOQr7C9fmmK6ENX5t+dMXD pwtse9dFNsEnEO9GVeutDuLFHTbEfs3pE8kUJiYCOadFKvIUq2B3gIgwHkslxYzOjGRQ dAe4IAwBkITSMbAX3skyX9Ks2dSdTurgrr6kGvTajYXOSdexklV0eqc5NL58nqUENqy5 4gILWlaXZgCD6QnvN7Sq0bjeNp7K5GgMamHwn43S0UcCcQfHF+uXnPnMAHJmK1t8s8O0 sRqw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=jKHDNrrSN0J0RnFsXrV2/n+nTdcUTPumA890XoUMPzg=; b=HttQaZ4An4hEOz+xolteVRUa6T3BUQ+qLa2zfqpO5GZhR+RFFbDeBHv5fPwxd3bE5v 3RzProuP2M/LQA9ZGqGJoiFiahP47sFfEiEK4SgD1prW4v3J3GzcEcvAfaMxK3s29zUh +jIUk2xOUP3CD9+xksHYfZuJs/ESGAiilkwwJsps4hYRVGPnvxSJsrLhR4bwSwVhJL9W 4MEZl0+RC0SqURithYbU7cJuijjvMIM3SNrSBcnRdIG0FRui9vr8XH4NptxMi9JZjWkX uVwsAv28bE+TdxhgTvj+IYP3N7JuQPfVHYbifh53jP4KZpq8ObfYQy2HZWi4rrLldHOh 3cDQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuZbmAUI1uNk/un0TsLNez+YLEjk1xb2wvuSae3F0hPrs4w2B3dQ gDCKeZpGZ6y3lQw5IreCdHSl349D X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypK7j8ehwDsSe1bUEdYRr6VlpCXN/O5qPgW7tVGTlbnY7ikeCt0Qf8x6uW8CccpD/teqtwHEEw== X-Received: by 2002:a37:e306:: with SMTP id y6mr17240018qki.173.1588095673038; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 10:41:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vhost2 (CPE001143542e1f-CMf81d0f809fa0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com. [99.230.38.42]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d4sm13598084qtw.25.2020.04.28.10.41.11 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Tue, 28 Apr 2020 10:41:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Noam Postavsky To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: control message for bug #40916 Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 13:41:10 -0400 Message-ID: <85sggn8q4p.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) severity 40916 wishlist quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Apr 29 01:15:42 2020 Received: (at 40916) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Apr 2020 05:15:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42177 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTf4Q-0008NS-Lh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 01:15:42 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:60786) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTf4O-0008NG-J6 for 40916@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 01:15:41 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:48252) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTf4I-0003jK-UJ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 01:15:34 -0400 Received: from [2607:fea8:3fe0:17d:7087:3460:976b:c2b1] (port=43656 helo=localhost) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jTf4I-0004CM-Dq; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 01:15:34 -0400 From: Amin Bandali To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#40916: [PATCH] Add "p" and "n" convenience bindings to help-mode-map Organization: GNU References: <87blnctpza.fsf@gnu.org> <87blnb7bx4.fsf@stefankangas.se> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 01:15:33 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87blnb7bx4.fsf@stefankangas.se> Message-ID: <87r1w6lvnu.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40916 Cc: 40916@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Stefan, Stefan Kangas writes: > Hi Amin, > > Amin Bandali writes: > >> The following binds "p" to backward-button, and "n" to forward-button in >> help-mode-map for more conveniently jumping between buttons in *Help* >> buffers. I have found myself constantly reaching for these in *Help* >> buffers after using helpful [0] for a while. > > Thanks, I like the idea. I tried it, and it seems useful. > Thank you. > > But I have one concern. Is there anything else we could use those > keys for? For example, what about navigating sections in the file, or > even (next|previous)-line? > > Let's say we introduce a "foldable" help buffer, such that minor mode > documentation would be collapsed by default. (Sorry, I can't find the > feature request now, but it's in the bug tracker somewhere.) > > Will this key binding still be the one we want? > That's indeed a valid question/criticism. And my answer is that I'm not quite sure. As of now, I think having this behaviour makes sense; but I can't say for sure it would remain the best use for p/n in the future. Especially considering the "foldable" help idea you mentioned, which I had not heard of or considered prior to writing this reply. :-) > >> The patch is against emacs-27, since it's a trivial and hopefully >> completely harmless change. > > I think we should do this on master to let people test the change and > get used to it. Maybe we will want to change it before release. > > Best regards, > Stefan Kangas > That's a good argument for doing this on master at least at first. Best, =2D-=20 Amin Bandali Free Software activist | GNU maintainer & webmaster GPG: BE62 7373 8E61 6D6D 1B3A 08E8 A21A 0202 4881 6103 https://bandali.eu.org --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQJEBAEBCAAuFiEEObM8jZRIDS3cwqSYi0Sgzce5VvIFAl6pDXUQHGJhbmRhbGlA Z251Lm9yZwAKCRCLRKDNx7lW8jL3D/sF4Fi+gCVP95FuwbuX4fXw1PHSQ9KTg/mt +U/MkY9QiZ7eem46haCRZ0KzjVhcCLYoAPOSoAWqAL8vtt2m8RuoWwVi38/LqOGl ni4us49xgc/uMPO+pa9YWNOJjjQjh85dkt6O+0GG2ejyUrKsn506E8WVU2DJBvoB ktMywJ+vX5OJU+stK5iOvcH9dwSa7AMyRJNkbVdVw4NA2dUVJeM7VOau4Xl8Sd7Z mbbXMLM3uDc4iT4Q0fbKvBIphwuwuJ8xOLvxczlaEXNpXR89ArxBSf5nuoBUVrmW 17UTkly1XtErxvBzyeAlkZRQGa5dD0kQG32CsE5XygcBVq/S6b3qXITquPW5ZIXb IRwBToYp2/8KQHnT7iIaWjPi9JcRA7A7kpUMnBoq4fOWQjRjKElP4YhZQLy54T7W 9x9HeFIFBAxPYVRZHLDYDeYQyJ8M2BiiWv8/SGz7UznK1GCQWj7OnGAJZLuynyRg e/hgbxtSQA0DfNk0mlvHGjyQQ4Vdt+J5XZIH2TYBdSjt06ysmzg6wMEzeHRLaBxp ffBE9wxUVDj+VSmWV4E+hudKqHwxUDo4j3GsoYcr2/s7K2mdJZGfKOUf9GX86USw SaC0vjEFK68cAY1dJOxhGbU0tcHONXvQfGXmkPX17MX0HlnSEABmKN5C1PzVUuft 3hsPwbKeHw== =K7+H -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Apr 29 01:24:08 2020 Received: (at 40916) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Apr 2020 05:24:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42200 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTfCa-00009x-HI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 01:24:08 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:33134) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTfCY-00009S-E7 for 40916@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 01:24:06 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:48310) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTfCS-0002ha-T6; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 01:24:00 -0400 Received: from [2607:fea8:3fe0:17d:7087:3460:976b:c2b1] (port=43714 helo=localhost) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jTfCS-0004it-Jk; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 01:24:00 -0400 From: Amin Bandali To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#40916: [PATCH] Add "p" and "n" convenience bindings to help-mode-map Organization: GNU References: <87blnctpza.fsf@gnu.org> <5474d002-e1e0-48f7-8eb4-2ca2280cf79d@default> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 01:23:58 -0400 In-Reply-To: <5474d002-e1e0-48f7-8eb4-2ca2280cf79d@default> Message-ID: <87mu6ulv9t.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40916 Cc: 40916@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Drew Adams writes: >> The following binds "p" to backward-button, and "n" to forward-button >> in help-mode-map for more conveniently jumping between buttons in *Help* >> buffers. I have found myself constantly reaching for these in *Help* >> buffers after using helpful [0] for a while. > > We already have TAB and S-TAB. TAB has been > there forever, and S-TAB was added because it > was claimed to be "standard" or "conventional" > in some way. > > And TAB and S-TAB are the same keys we use in > Info (where `n' and `p' move forward/backward > among node siblings). > Thanks; I am already aware of those. > > Are we adding redundant keys now just because > someone gets used to them in some other app > or 3rd-party library? > No, we are discussing it. And I don't see anything inherently wrong with having more than one keybinding for a command; as is already the case for various other built-in commands. > > Nothing prevents a user from binding `n' and > `p' that way. And nothing prevents a library > from having a minor mode that binds them. > > And Emacs not binding them by default means > they remain available for something else in > the future. > Yes; these are valid criticisms. See my reply to Stefan. =2D-=20 Amin Bandali Free Software activist | GNU maintainer & webmaster GPG: BE62 7373 8E61 6D6D 1B3A 08E8 A21A 0202 4881 6103 https://bandali.eu.org --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQJEBAEBCAAuFiEEObM8jZRIDS3cwqSYi0Sgzce5VvIFAl6pD28QHGJhbmRhbGlA Z251Lm9yZwAKCRCLRKDNx7lW8uvKD/9MM0bgKRYNMvcmlhM719YH7kxLrBICgATq zo50Fkwrbe2NU10M7mjpjd1c+RFLYKXdAP0//nl6dtDGx5C5ka9exHB84YJllS9Y /UK73aEAl6jf7dpCbZok3Kf6lwxPe1GatomNaoOzeZX1OIR1a12uiJrqCAjHaChJ qui84r9utlMVEe5a/2Yd6RfsOE1F4SDq8kngxxXRAi3KkDjrY3X6BP5s+mphh1o2 N9aYAFDyeFFmTFiNkHXfms6+zF1ikfBXGQuzJbOJM0MctIuZDxZ3VJP0tWMGUdlx mfXiKCNdL/m+TtaSdhF0sCGr6AMwmc3AccE9jkgMqu4VDaWdYgKh67pnYUinDVD6 uW1Yt/Yyb+WB6UnW2jc69xpPVdi2zBaqeAsiWoJN/9SRC3ftZCVXjVf3i7o25ZVK HiKuNRj9rs78ZpPK4qftrcdJbNYueiMC37K5K2JIAJ1jAbhJyLLy9fmmK5sEgh7s aZFQffTcvaXVr3Lmh/d7vI8qdyifXtFdQTC1dWd5YUsU/ZcOF4l03hEJSU6jHSjE ooZg8l/SeE5ijxajjiy3DJszypGYhYslAXYOXYMeLNFGZDLqZNAl4aaktxmuLoWM fGn+mVvlEfJL8U5xuVItPzO1my68IUBNqdgfROCaFDWei5LXoXxCt4tWdPmaCUOa 448El0krAw== =RMOu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Apr 30 20:36:54 2020 Received: (at 40916) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 May 2020 00:36:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47945 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jUJfa-0001rq-Cy for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 20:36:54 -0400 Received: from ted.gofardesign.uk ([67.225.143.91]:47458) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jUJfZ-0001rf-9U for 40916@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 20:36:45 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=marxist.se; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=o70uhXtBG+Of1vumQVM7i/dzuhpKV8bjM+sYCsXuI/4=; b=DNfbO0Bgz00RK9Z9mOJyYUH2uK wlcpVqiAxlA18w0E9SNPy6QtiXU/3+6dUD1uTUFuQ638cw98+BErLLrPAi9Y3eGyYiF5IMhS2vRik mSTA/EIptbf4wQgV3nG0vSotWZTa14Uq5x0tRTXLmX9MVXUpD5HST+U1VMPSFXb+VBvmkTTeH9494 T+xHSsfKnn5tW04NBFXrtyLkbK8o7WDYg5qCYAdF1E9bx2Hh8g9DCWXTyLRXo2BF6nNZ2gB/HXnch DPbtk+x1+1LO1VFqVXp/u2TrPxBScKcmh1LH6wi67kemjlEJfWCC5oxTBSIw9bz9REv+kTi4natBW H+r/vCyg==; Received: from h-4-70-69.a785.priv.bahnhof.se ([155.4.70.69]:59376 helo=localhost) by ted.gofardesign.uk with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1jUJfT-001m0e-Jx; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 20:36:39 -0400 From: Stefan Kangas To: Amin Bandali Subject: Re: bug#40916: [PATCH] Add "p" and "n" convenience bindings to help-mode-map In-Reply-To: <87r1w6lvnu.fsf@gnu.org> (Amin Bandali's message of "Wed, 29 Apr 2020 01:15:33 -0400") References: <87blnctpza.fsf@gnu.org> <87blnb7bx4.fsf@stefankangas.se> <87r1w6lvnu.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.91 (gnu/linux) Date: Fri, 01 May 2020 02:36:37 +0200 Message-ID: <875zdgfq3u.fsf@stefankangas.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ted.gofardesign.uk X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - marxist.se X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: ted.gofardesign.uk: authenticated_id: stefan@marxist.se X-Authenticated-Sender: ted.gofardesign.uk: stefan@marxist.se X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40916 Cc: 40916@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Amin Bandali writes: >> Let's say we introduce a "foldable" help buffer, such that minor mode >> documentation would be collapsed by default. (Sorry, I can't find the >> feature request now, but it's in the bug tracker somewhere.) >> >> Will this key binding still be the one we want? > > That's indeed a valid question/criticism. And my answer is that I'm not > quite sure. As of now, I think having this behaviour makes sense; but I > can't say for sure it would remain the best use for p/n in the future. > Especially considering the "foldable" help idea you mentioned, which I > had not heard of or considered prior to writing this reply. :-) I found the bug where the above feature was discussed: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=2473 Best regards, Stefan Kangas From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Aug 08 08:08:20 2020 Received: (at 40916) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Aug 2020 12:08:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58416 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k4Ne7-0005Vg-RB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Aug 2020 08:08:20 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:50966) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k4Ne6-0005VR-Nu for 40916@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Aug 2020 08:08:19 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=POFhRavc40ixtdFCyE4tCw9kngl/YHilxXqyM2d4tvU=; b=RMkStCd8w5YL64HtW/gd4ZhnnR 2Tao4qi1kNKgMTKk46jj5wZdnvpEHt6oi29OWwhQzGMrTSbbQh/baoy5+/J6f4kniz9AprlvUMnz2 RB3xSIoHCkOrEfAvwJomVtuMVWPqjhI52pol7B+YWKLjoFpObevKcpfhDrG+RztP9Cx4=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1k4Ndq-000449-Ei; Sat, 08 Aug 2020 14:08:12 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Amin Bandali Subject: Re: bug#40916: [PATCH] Add "p" and "n" convenience bindings to help-mode-map References: <87blnctpza.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2020 14:08:01 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87blnctpza.fsf@gnu.org> (Amin Bandali's message of "Mon, 27 Apr 2020 20:26:33 -0400") Message-ID: <87eeoh2vdq.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Amin Bandali writes: > The following binds "p" to backward-button, and "n" to forward-button in > help-mode-map for more conveniently jumping between buttons in *Help* > buffers. I have found myself constantly reaching fo [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40916 Cc: 40916@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Amin Bandali writes: > The following binds "p" to backward-button, and "n" to forward-button in > help-mode-map for more conveniently jumping between buttons in *Help* > buffers. I have found myself constantly reaching for these in *Help* > buffers after using helpful [0] for a while. The objection was raised that we might want to use these keys for other commands in the future in these buffers, and I agree with that. Besides, there's a bunch of other modes that have buttons that already bind n/p for other things, and TAB/S-TAB work in all these buffers. So I think we'd be encouraging users to remember the wrong set of key strokes here: They should rely on TAB/S-TAB everywhere. So I'm closing this bug report. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Aug 08 08:08:27 2020 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Aug 2020 12:08:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58419 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k4NeF-0005W1-2G for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Aug 2020 08:08:27 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:50980) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k4NeD-0005Vk-AZ for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Aug 2020 08:08:25 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=ITx/iVNr5K96T1FJgWlGG4VCo5NkdIUdC/CtCcj1MAc=; b=KIw7GXnr2Ahrc6RgBpYRmyaAlB s/sG+xhnqAMuXuThTB9n14MUqQHWASG9pAgyrSdvSEyHqFY2VNureC3hwUN1U4ww6nJ1FxDH0an2b d3AI9LX8IoVQA0MS1igGRLB8ivDWJRsW+LTgwpTISYoaQ6h4pLnw1fCrkKL/w0q3ODdk=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1k4Ne5-00044U-MN for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Aug 2020 14:08:19 +0200 Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2020 14:08:16 +0200 Message-Id: <87d0412vdb.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #40916 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 40916 wontfix close 40916 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 40916 wontfix close 40916 quit From unknown Tue Sep 09 00:44:20 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. 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