From unknown Mon Sep 08 01:47:59 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#40915 <40915@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#40915 <40915@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: [PATCH] Make leaving Info-summary more intuitive Reply-To: bug#40915 <40915@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2025 08:47:59 +0000 retitle 40915 [PATCH] Make leaving Info-summary more intuitive reassign 40915 emacs submitter 40915 Stefan Kangas severity 40915 minor tag 40915 patch thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 27 18:28:48 2020 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Apr 2020 22:28:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38355 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTCF6-0004vc-Cq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:28:48 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:50102) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTCF3-0004vU-Oc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:28:46 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41030) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTCF3-0000Md-79 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:28:45 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTCF2-0002vR-FG for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:28:44 -0400 Received: from mail-yb1-f173.google.com ([209.85.219.173]:46248) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTCF1-0002ps-OA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:28:44 -0400 Received: by mail-yb1-f173.google.com with SMTP id b17so10329239ybq.13 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:28:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=I2qnn89tFRSxlLBE46vRAl2A3JpoAka3+aCM9s1UKHc=; b=p8IF2vIgMz+Gh9sC7TacioxmPTUbGQJMRZojHh/RmcbBon4HuBKBaFE57TEpRlScDr 01GCKivVwMAFDSQ1+wTjj2o5sE0+kGppYvvFWjudaPa7oHHedNYREalcCTszwxpadIsQ Q22arw5CdPZnITPQ60jp7AZLAmzI6w93od7ViWpYyDZEq2t6sCoiUuhhAKsIybI0O7G8 Bku1hth9d7Xfa2n/OhmaBWmgvejFhIyPKi6P/vsjdwXpwrfUo+tvdnRnABJIUZYp09aD CtInU5UIaydTJI1FIRIXwFloky2jM9zxcQd107Bi0UZFlW7JAsJgxdVyRS1SijzB76po GsIQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuZvne3vf/MuymWvYkSgFLTi7NWG0PhOPpCiuv4TehJZbjXxCzQV /F8MCX+9ux2EpsjSFDHWuJUS+TLdxge9UHhi8/G28J1UR7k= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypKB0cGbmER7JTs0kvflnCCJN/V1PSd6NolzNUQEBXq+yIfRRBuTBcXXH+xgEnvHMTpwFG/9SSl9FCpQwtwsfaQ= X-Received: by 2002:a25:2:: with SMTP id 2mr39054348yba.466.1588026522428; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:28:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Stefan Kangas Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 00:28:31 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: [PATCH] Make leaving Info-summary more intuitive To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="000000000000c3a80f05a44d3ccf" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=209.85.219.173; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-yb1-f173.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/04/27 18:28:42 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 209.85.219.173 X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Severity: minor There's a small issue with the Info-summary command: 0. emacs -Q 1. C-h i 2. ? 3. q Content analysis details: (1.2 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.2 HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS From and EnvelopeFrom 2nd level mail domains are different 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (stefankangas[at]gmail.com) 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record -2.3 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, medium trust [209.51.188.17 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.2 FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN 2nd level domains in From and EnvelopeFrom freemail headers are different 2.0 SPOOFED_FREEMAIL No description available. X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) --000000000000c3a80f05a44d3ccf Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Severity: minor There's a small issue with the Info-summary command: 0. emacs -Q 1. C-h i 2. ? 3. q Result: Now in *scratch* buffer Expected: Should end up in *info* buffer The attached patch should fix it by not pushing the character ('q' in this case) onto 'unread-command-events' before burying the help buffer. Best regards, Stefan Kangas In GNU Emacs 28.0.50 (build 14, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.18, cairo version 1.16.0) of 2020-04-27 built on joffe --000000000000c3a80f05a44d3ccf Content-Type: text/x-patch; charset="US-ASCII"; name="0001-Make-leaving-Info-summary-more-intuitive.patch" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0001-Make-leaving-Info-summary-more-intuitive.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: X-Attachment-Id: f_k9j1yncl0 RnJvbSAwZDM0ZThiOThjNzZiZmMxZjlkY2QyNGRjMDY5MTc5M2IyZTAzYWU1IE1vbiBTZXAgMTcg MDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBTdGVmYW4gS2FuZ2FzIDxzdGVmYW5rYW5nYXNAZ21haWwuY29t PgpEYXRlOiBUdWUsIDI4IEFwciAyMDIwIDAwOjI1OjExICswMjAwClN1YmplY3Q6IFtQQVRDSF0g TWFrZSBsZWF2aW5nIEluZm8tc3VtbWFyeSBtb3JlIGludHVpdGl2ZQoKKiBsaXNwL2luZm8uZWwg KEluZm8tc3VtbWFyeSk6IERpc2NhcmQgY2hhcmFjdGVyIG9uIGV4aXQgaW5zdGVhZCBvZgpwdXNo aW5nIGl0IG9udG8gJ3VucmVhZC1jb21tYW5kLWV2ZW50cycuCi0tLQogbGlzcC9pbmZvLmVsIHwg MTYgKysrKysrKystLS0tLS0tLQogMSBmaWxlIGNoYW5nZWQsIDggaW5zZXJ0aW9ucygrKSwgOCBk ZWxldGlvbnMoLSkKCmRpZmYgLS1naXQgYS9saXNwL2luZm8uZWwgYi9saXNwL2luZm8uZWwKaW5k ZXggMzAxNWU2MGE0Zi4uNzAzOTA3Yjk4ZiAxMDA2NDQKLS0tIGEvbGlzcC9pbmZvLmVsCisrKyBi L2xpc3AvaW5mby5lbApAQCAtMzgyOCwxNCArMzgyOCwxNCBAQCBJbmZvLXN1bW1hcnkKICAgICAo aW5zZXJ0IChkb2N1bWVudGF0aW9uICdJbmZvLW1vZGUpKQogICAgIChoZWxwLW1vZGUpCiAgICAg KGdvdG8tY2hhciAocG9pbnQtbWluKSkKLSAgICAobGV0IChjaCBmbGFnKQotICAgICAgKHdoaWxl IChwcm9nbiAoc2V0cSBmbGFnIChub3QgKHBvcy12aXNpYmxlLWluLXdpbmRvdy1wIChwb2ludC1t YXgpKSkpCi0JCSAgICAobWVzc2FnZSAoaWYgZmxhZyAiVHlwZSBTcGFjZSB0byBzZWUgbW9yZSIK LQkJCSAgICAgICAiVHlwZSBTcGFjZSB0byByZXR1cm4gdG8gSW5mbyIpKQotCQkgICAgKGlmIChu b3QgKGVxID9ccyAoc2V0cSBjaCAocmVhZC1ldmVudCkpKSkKLQkJCShwcm9nbiAocHVzaCBjaCB1 bnJlYWQtY29tbWFuZC1ldmVudHMpIG5pbCkKLQkJICAgICAgZmxhZykpCi0JKHNjcm9sbC11cCkp KQorICAgICh3aGlsZSAobGV0ICgoZmxhZyAobm90IChwb3MtdmlzaWJsZS1pbi13aW5kb3ctcCAo cG9pbnQtbWF4KSkpKSkKKwkgICAgIChtZXNzYWdlIChpZiBmbGFnICJUeXBlIFNwYWNlIHRvIHNl ZSBtb3JlIgorCQkJIlR5cGUgYW55IGtleSB0byByZXR1cm4gdG8gSW5mbyIpKQorICAgICAgICAg ICAgIDs7IFNwYWNlIHNjcm9sbHMgaWYgdGhlcmUgaXMgbW9yZSBjb250ZW50LgorICAgICAgICAg ICAgIDs7IEFueSBvdGhlciBrZXkgcmV0dXJucy4KKyAgICAgICAgICAgICAoc2V0cSBjaCAocmVh ZC1ldmVudCkpCisJICAgICAoYW5kIGZsYWcgKGVxIGNoID9ccykpKQorICAgICAgKHNjcm9sbC11 cCkpCiAgICAgKGJ1cnktYnVmZmVyICIqSGVscCoiKSkpCiAMCiAoZGVmdW4gSW5mby1nZXQtdG9r ZW4gKHBvcyBzdGFydCBhbGwgJm9wdGlvbmFsIGVycm9yc3RyaW5nKQotLSAKMi4yNi4yCgo= --000000000000c3a80f05a44d3ccf-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 28 03:09:28 2020 Received: (at 40915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Apr 2020 07:09:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38693 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTKMy-0005lk-Ak for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 03:09:28 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:37238) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTKMx-0005la-AL for 40915@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 03:09:27 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:52917) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTKMr-0006NG-GP; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 03:09:21 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2746 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jTKMq-00019q-UR; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 03:09:21 -0400 Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 10:09:00 +0300 Message-Id: <83sggo2ik3.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Tue, 28 Apr 2020 00:28:31 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#40915: [PATCH] Make leaving Info-summary more intuitive References: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40915 Cc: 40915@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 00:28:31 +0200 > > There's a small issue with the Info-summary command: > > 0. emacs -Q > 1. C-h i > 2. ? > 3. q > > Result: Now in *scratch* buffer > Expected: Should end up in *info* buffer I'm not sure I understand the expected result. The help buffer displayed when you press '?' says: q Quit Info: reselect previously selected buffer. So it seems Info behaves as documented? The way to exit the help screen and return to the Info manual is by repeatedly pressing SPC until you wind up in the original Info buffer. > The attached patch should fix it by not pushing the character ('q' in > this case) onto 'unread-command-events' before burying the help > buffer. I could understand that we'd like to have a single key to quit the help screen, perhaps even when 'q' is pressed (which would be a change in behavior), but even then it is IMO wrong to completely remove the pushing onto unread-command-events, because this command is set such that you could read about a key and execute it while still in the help screen. IOW, the fact that the key you pres is generally executed after exiting the help screen is an important feature: it avoids the need to remember the key you found in *Help* and retype it after you are back in the Info buffer. Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 28 03:37:56 2020 Received: (at 40915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Apr 2020 07:37:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38736 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTKoW-0006bl-MQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 03:37:56 -0400 Received: from mail-yb1-f169.google.com ([209.85.219.169]:42172) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTKoV-0006bY-0n for 40915@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 03:37:55 -0400 Received: by mail-yb1-f169.google.com with SMTP id i16so10910042ybq.9 for <40915@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 00:37:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=LPium4AqdoyKbNTNRiZDQxZ2jsXNvGqAZmEDmfKBJ+Q=; b=r4DL0nOtqbTvKOJHy+t2VzxadmwLKQ61dfbFgkgnMqNJhSz5ch7l6OEuEyaKztlrtS I1b/vkl0pex6TR3/5VBRKdWlvAURRs5aaGlkDspWia3RdUQowMMVKOmo2AkROE+v10Ti KgtVZpBlsSS3Dx7jPfN0LMu0JjE/a4YhP9JOtVVtFXyw23IiJzWe7/YnVtkofSQmMdh0 rUdNV+x73JcjWfn2shEw5mJysmDG2fVJGCziB9q6sTppBvFGLl+rWhx57E+9Mzd2MLRs akdDCtaaOYRHQ8/v9rbu/4K4fBFXqpRzr4Xmx4+TEQm3Q1gh2VrnN0PxDL47WYN1QfCf pLGA== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuaaddglKrDXN12CXMpnsOKCKzFjqgRj5PEw2sg8lKzkwUq1iTEy 4k4UFiODLTk/ae0Rppc7+tKmtPN9IR6tUlXeWf3SUJHgrqc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJVnXtkv5UqBuINiha3ZbGiDPaFyz2owOFfKA9Q3xcOkbmG9bMOSMjC8iHlv1rvKwkm37De0jYj5ZeLHvEADH8= X-Received: by 2002:a25:e907:: with SMTP id n7mr41283591ybd.85.1588059469412; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 00:37:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <83sggo2ik3.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83sggo2ik3.fsf@gnu.org> From: Stefan Kangas Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 09:37:38 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#40915: [PATCH] Make leaving Info-summary more intuitive To: Eli Zaretskii Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40915 Cc: 40915@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: > I'm not sure I understand the expected result. The help buffer > displayed when you press '?' says: > > q Quit Info: reselect previously selected buffer. > > So it seems Info behaves as documented? The way to exit the help > screen and return to the Info manual is by repeatedly pressing SPC > until you wind up in the original Info buffer. Sure, the result is formally correct. It's just counter-intuitive. Normally when I say 'q' in the "*Help*" buffer, I bury it. But here, 'q' buries two buffers. > I could understand that we'd like to have a single key to quit the > help screen, perhaps even when 'q' is pressed (which would be a change > in behavior), but even then it is IMO wrong to completely remove the > pushing onto unread-command-events, because this command is set such > that you could read about a key and execute it while still in the help > screen. IOW, the fact that the key you pres is generally executed > after exiting the help screen is an important feature: it avoids the > need to remember the key you found in *Help* and retype it after you > are back in the Info buffer. Thanks for explaining the motivation behind that feature. I'm fine with doing a less invasive change: treat 'q' as a special case in Info-summary. Many users are hardwired to press 'q' to make a "*Help*" buffer go away. However, there is an inconsistency between modes; in view-mode and special-mode, '?' is bound to describe-major-mode. Would it be worth it to be more consistent? In other words, doing one of: (a) make 'Info-summary' into a general help command and use it in more places, or (b) deprecate 'Info-summary' in favour of 'describe-mode'. It seems to me that _if_ we think the 'Info-summary' behaviour is useful, we would want to ensure more modes can benefit from it. Or, to put it another way, I don't see why it would be uniquely useful to Info-mode -- it should be useful either in many more modes or nowhere. I haven't formed a strong opinion on this, but it would be interesting to hear what people think. Best regards, Stefan Kangas From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 28 03:57:48 2020 Received: (at 40915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Apr 2020 07:57:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38762 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTL7j-000762-P2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 03:57:48 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:42568) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTL7i-00075p-3P for 40915@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 03:57:46 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:53387) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTL7c-0005CS-Cm; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 03:57:40 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1727 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jTL7a-0000xx-AT; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 03:57:39 -0400 Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 10:57:17 +0300 Message-Id: <83ftco2gbm.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Tue, 28 Apr 2020 09:37:38 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#40915: [PATCH] Make leaving Info-summary more intuitive References: <83sggo2ik3.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40915 Cc: 40915@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 09:37:38 +0200 > Cc: 40915@debbugs.gnu.org > > > I could understand that we'd like to have a single key to quit the > > help screen, perhaps even when 'q' is pressed (which would be a change > > in behavior), but even then it is IMO wrong to completely remove the > > pushing onto unread-command-events, because this command is set such > > that you could read about a key and execute it while still in the help > > screen. IOW, the fact that the key you pres is generally executed > > after exiting the help screen is an important feature: it avoids the > > need to remember the key you found in *Help* and retype it after you > > are back in the Info buffer. > > Thanks for explaining the motivation behind that feature. > > I'm fine with doing a less invasive change: treat 'q' as a special > case in Info-summary. Many users are hardwired to press 'q' to make a > "*Help*" buffer go away. > > However, there is an inconsistency between modes; in view-mode and > special-mode, '?' is bound to describe-major-mode. What is describe-major-mode? Did you mean describe-mode? > Would it be worth it to be more consistent? In other words, doing one of: > > (a) make 'Info-summary' into a general help command and use it in more > places, or > (b) deprecate 'Info-summary' in favour of 'describe-mode'. > > It seems to me that _if_ we think the 'Info-summary' behaviour is > useful, we would want to ensure more modes can benefit from it. Or, > to put it another way, I don't see why it would be uniquely useful to > Info-mode -- it should be useful either in many more modes or nowhere. > I haven't formed a strong opinion on this, but it would be interesting > to hear what people think. Info mode is special: it is used to read the manual, including the Emacs manual and the manual for the Info system itself. IOW, we have a kind-of "bootstrapping" problem here: we need to teach how to use the system/mode by using that same system/mode. describe-mode shows the same text for Info, but it also shows much more, which for the new user is pure clutter and source of confusion. It also pops up a new window, which is another problem: the user may not know at that point how to work with more than one window. This is not an important consideration for the general Help commands, but it is for Info. So I think the case of Info _is_ special, and consistency considerations are much less important here than an attempt to present a simple and effective help buffer to users who may not yet know any "advanced" features. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 28 13:13:37 2020 Received: (at 40915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Apr 2020 17:13:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41261 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTTnc-0006kb-Ui for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 13:13:37 -0400 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:56252) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTTna-0006kM-Ne for 40915@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 13:13:35 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 03SHCqIG026810; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:13:28 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=W6juo5QxsvzYOfmFIHBeGet6X31FP0BKb4FDGLK39kg=; b=pMPv0jyhBs92ciTqZd8BeZDOE81BnEyXr0PDdugoXWX61Oyfvsj6J6wWxVYsMHCDEOy3 7U13hBdqj7l+yJGscCjzE9wkH1eIkvhkPyAiB+QQjVPgTssuVehwlxvzkhzxbdk9Q3rI z7flzl7KCXjzzktrjWIJZ6NNoOm8EXw1OvB1Zug+rim1VIp/TH9HRdf5fVPv0OWbEYsV W6QR6EdFnwvvtr7YiabWYuT/XfcrKcRyLYv6RDFc0vWAsL9A7t4do9Csx7PwHL5zUpbW i8y207TpZnPDavVWjYrkS2Q5X5Jlug9NXXafQzu1+tbuJ06+YbdiJVKc6Iugh/wz4J6w JQ== Received: from aserp3020.oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [141.146.126.70]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30nucg1a3h-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:13:28 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 03SH777N192083; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:28 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30my0dr9p6-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:28 +0000 Received: from abhmp0018.oracle.com (abhmp0018.oracle.com [141.146.116.24]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 03SHBQer021075; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:27 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <25e557d9-4b68-470a-96d5-c51552d5fa38@default> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 10:11:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Stefan Kangas , Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: bug#40915: [PATCH] Make leaving Info-summary more intuitive References: <83sggo2ik3.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4993.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9605 signatures=668686 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=915 bulkscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2004280134 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9605 signatures=668686 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 clxscore=1011 priorityscore=1501 mlxlogscore=964 impostorscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2004280136 X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40915 Cc: 40915@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) > In other words, doing one of: >=20 > (a) make 'Info-summary' into a general help command and use it in more > places, or > (b) deprecate 'Info-summary' in favour of 'describe-mode'. >=20 > It seems to me that _if_ we think the 'Info-summary' behaviour is > useful, we would want to ensure more modes can benefit from it. Or, > to put it another way, I don't see why it would be uniquely useful to > Info-mode -- it should be useful either in many more modes or nowhere. > I haven't formed a strong opinion on this, but it would be interesting > to hear what people think. I don't really understand. Info-summary is a help command that describes Info. You can invoke it anywhere - not just in Info, so I don't see why it would be deprecated and its content given to describe-mode. For (a), what do you mean by a "general" help command? The point of Info-summary is to provide succinct help about Info. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 28 13:19:37 2020 Received: (at 40915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Apr 2020 17:19:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41267 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTTtR-0006tg-MU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 13:19:37 -0400 Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:34614) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTTtP-0006tQ-8B for 40915@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 13:19:36 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 03SHHNZd096143; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:19:29 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=bFXuCHlDroigK1bO7qnlRbHkjiFEHr2HfMOYFjPtVYw=; b=AyVQLEs49dSqgG4jUrrP+rj5d+iR4VaSLGj1OzfuOdRM/4i3EhzLoYjS1hJPoFcMN6BF F9Bww+SwbdhIylqxSNcNduh6spfr3F+OYKypBDksynjhzOTvqqEC3UoNiWOduM7ekpYP oYsYd5SuunIl+msThFqSjvIFSAcYK8339UI53kQENGuHRIH3JGiJHq9fSx6lhOgH5aGC ec/i6iX+6+upYYwBtNwrdhOvflfsRug7pFAW6+XClm1Wht8ZHlGbVODKw3ANRz6gVyNF RihODX1kzeGNvDhfCI9Gox+60CcKUVNIZ1iOa12Lb6FAXzGOrhjEpabOehevSiTPCiD3 RQ== Received: from aserp3020.oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [141.146.126.70]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30p2p06qe3-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:19:28 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 03SHD1E7026846; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:17:28 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30my0drtn9-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:17:27 +0000 Received: from abhmp0018.oracle.com (abhmp0018.oracle.com [141.146.116.24]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 03SHHRMH004810; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:17:27 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <31596290-c1d1-4c4e-bb14-1be51a5468bd@default> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 10:17:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Stefan Kangas , Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: bug#40915: [PATCH] Make leaving Info-summary more intuitive References: <83sggo2ik3.fsf@gnu.org> <25e557d9-4b68-470a-96d5-c51552d5fa38@default> In-Reply-To: <25e557d9-4b68-470a-96d5-c51552d5fa38@default> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4993.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9605 signatures=668686 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=975 bulkscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2004280136 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9605 signatures=668686 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 clxscore=1015 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 priorityscore=1501 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2004280136 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40915 Cc: 40915@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > I don't really understand. Info-summary is a > help command that describes Info. You can invoke > it anywhere - not just in Info, so I don't see > why it would be deprecated and its content given > to describe-mode. >=20 > For (a), what do you mean by a "general" help > command? The point of Info-summary is to provide > succinct help about Info. To be clearer: In my library info+.el I long ago replaced binding Info-summary to `?' and `C-h m', binding those to `describe-mode'. But I don't see why Info-summary should be removed/deprecated. It has a different purpose: providing only a summary of Info, not all the other info that describe-mode provides. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 28 13:39:25 2020 Received: (at 40915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Apr 2020 17:39:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41351 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTUCb-0007SP-Ll for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 13:39:25 -0400 Received: from ted.gofardesign.uk ([67.225.143.91]:55266) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTUCZ-0007SD-Qy for 40915@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 13:39:24 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=marxist.se; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=9dq/yd9JAzNwkjZutjRfKZ3Axk7PUMsFUGDBSsmYA4I=; b=IlWIrU8Hty4scWtZnKhmSSY5Iw YAec/bRNt/E0IlR2OkWaMn/vSjxGu3XF2qpF5zMphFzFb3tfSwm6Tq3vWkBmcYoVqzws1DHxU3bsl 0PwaxEPhmIsl1beHcWRP0075QQ+pO/Bx/zv7byP4+IZOP1kYCVlqK9Fb0aInzc3YwusqCR5z2wivv ndf9qfXWqlYfsnYcEpeOtaKCwXTaZq4NaEp7wE+DjwEtipRUbnk0be5mpMBuolq0gLX3GIugJX0Kt cUsdL90ur7v+InqlVMGDJn3muZ0DK4IVhYJUaAL6NBIzKVTLAtTVRvUBqnq6S2bAYrChA9YEcGgdL 4/CpR1XA==; Received: from h-4-70-69.a785.priv.bahnhof.se ([155.4.70.69]:36898 helo=localhost) by ted.gofardesign.uk with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1jTUCT-000RHA-5o; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 13:39:17 -0400 From: Stefan Kangas To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#40915: [PATCH] Make leaving Info-summary more intuitive In-Reply-To: <25e557d9-4b68-470a-96d5-c51552d5fa38@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Tue, 28 Apr 2020 10:11:26 -0700 (PDT)") References: <83sggo2ik3.fsf@gnu.org> <25e557d9-4b68-470a-96d5-c51552d5fa38@default> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 19:39:15 +0200 Message-ID: <878sif7bng.fsf@stefankangas.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ted.gofardesign.uk X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - marxist.se X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: ted.gofardesign.uk: authenticated_id: stefan@marxist.se X-Authenticated-Sender: ted.gofardesign.uk: stefan@marxist.se X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40915 Cc: 40915@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Drew Adams writes: > For (a), what do you mean by a "general" help > command? The point of Info-summary is to provide > succinct help about Info. I meant that you can have a command which works in any major mode very easily: (defun Info-summary () "Display a brief summary of all Info commands." (interactive) (save-window-excursion (switch-to-buffer "*Help*") (setq buffer-read-only nil) (erase-buffer) - (insert (documentation 'Info-mode)) + (insert (documentation major-mode)) (help-mode) (goto-char (point-min)) (let (ch flag) (while (progn (setq flag (not (pos-visible-in-window-p (point-max)))) (message (if flag "Type Space to see more" "Type Space to return to Info")) (if (not (eq ?\s (setq ch (read-event)))) (progn (push ch unread-command-events) nil) flag)) (scroll-up))) (bury-buffer "*Help*"))) Best regards, Stefan Kangas From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 28 14:44:06 2020 Received: (at 40915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Apr 2020 18:44:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41459 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTVDB-0004we-Na for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 14:44:05 -0400 Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:36958) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTVD9-0004w2-T8 for 40915@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 14:44:04 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 03SIhY5s092299; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:43:58 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=aOjjj9n3g5ShHY50PgYTdit6sItC80ELW3aXMMzV4rw=; b=zvolo8dd+DlClefB5Aen6C4SvmldXLQIL7Sk4B73kJISSHeMt8DzZxsNNEOTiBoUQ/r2 dNLjHmX/sL7/n9LUTNmZk+sDGFnytFu9XB7qAo3AfWrCOn3Upc4SMyR9hDKB16CJ2HTo bLcb4TE5luebKJKJGWEYDDP1RHkAW534H8fJj0Qnb5vU5JLk+7eaWVwzeaXI4gGGjQxH G7LEuunbx7jMnVaTABQsDy76jbayuoA8h+xxPMRgSojos908HatixQIUQ5w24XptkfkV 6Xb6oKz6XYbZU+kquB8Ham2uFcKVbXSj+kbKTw/fLsXYnVxaVrTeEqxoVWnVZofqzCgn Tw== Received: from userp3020.oracle.com (userp3020.oracle.com [156.151.31.79]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30p01nr9kx-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:43:57 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 03SIftwU064425; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:43:57 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30mxx0fky8-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:43:57 +0000 Received: from abhmp0010.oracle.com (abhmp0010.oracle.com [141.146.116.16]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 03SIht07020490; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:43:56 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 11:43:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Stefan Kangas Subject: RE: bug#40915: [PATCH] Make leaving Info-summary more intuitive References: <83sggo2ik3.fsf@gnu.org> <25e557d9-4b68-470a-96d5-c51552d5fa38@default> <878sif7bng.fsf@stefankangas.se> In-Reply-To: <878sif7bng.fsf@stefankangas.se> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4993.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9605 signatures=668686 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2004280147 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9605 signatures=668686 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2004280147 X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40915 Cc: 40915@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) > > For (a), what do you mean by a "general" help > > command? The point of Info-summary is to provide > > succinct help about Info. >=20 > I meant that you can have a command which works in any major mode very > easily: >=20 > (defun Info-summary () > "Display a brief summary of all Info commands." > (interactive) > (save-window-excursion > (switch-to-buffer "*Help*") > (setq buffer-read-only nil) > (erase-buffer) > - (insert (documentation 'Info-mode)) > + (insert (documentation major-mode)) > (help-mode) > (goto-char (point-min)) > (let (ch flag) > (while (progn (setq flag (not (pos-visible-in-window-p (point- > max)))) > =09=09 (message (if flag "Type Space to see more" > =09=09=09 "Type Space to return to Info")) > =09=09 (if (not (eq ?\s (setq ch (read-event)))) > =09=09=09(progn (push ch unread-command-events) nil) > =09=09 flag)) > =09(scroll-up))) > (bury-buffer "*Help*"))) I see. +1. But maybe consider something like this instead. IOW, let it be useful for any major mode, from anywhere, not just for the current major mode. (defun summarize-major-mode (mode) (interactive (list (completing-read (format "Mode (default %s): " major-mode) obarray (lambda (ss) (and (commandp ss) (boundp ss) (string-match-p "-mode\\'" (symbol-name ss)))) t nil nil major-mode))) ...) ; The rest as you showed From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Aug 08 08:13:51 2020 Received: (at 40915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Aug 2020 12:13:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58435 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k4NjT-0005ea-L7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Aug 2020 08:13:51 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:51022) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k4NjS-0005eO-D5 for 40915@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Aug 2020 08:13:50 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Cwy0cc7DNu6q94MHqS0iOpgC6Cs4m2361lbUCCs6aUw=; b=orvDrV/LqJ3CPSS+d+g/NOzpaS WqCT2D6rNgD5iNgpdJcldUmAKnr5fXCuO+3S8eesVn4hvHxzP5Qhev/t01qZUF0Wgw8VDzgbtUTBJ 8SLyZ3n8g9QW/qncBdOSVze58z95ulYeY2bDT65tXa1GvQrSRRam3nvW56QrdtNGGHi4=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1k4NjI-00048J-LV; Sat, 08 Aug 2020 14:13:44 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#40915: [PATCH] Make leaving Info-summary more intuitive References: Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2020 14:13:39 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Tue, 28 Apr 2020 00:28:31 +0200") Message-ID: <878sep2v4c.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Kangas writes: > Severity: minor > > There's a small issue with the Info-summary command: > > 0. emacs -Q > 1. C-h i > 2. ? > 3. q > > Result: Now in *scratch* buffer > Expected: Should end up in *info* buffer Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40915 Cc: 40915@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stefan Kangas writes: > Severity: minor > > There's a small issue with the Info-summary command: > > 0. emacs -Q > 1. C-h i > 2. ? > 3. q > > Result: Now in *scratch* buffer > Expected: Should end up in *info* buffer Hm... yes, that is a bit surprising... but the *Help* buffer `?' pops up is very special -- hitting any key (unbound) key does the normal `q' action, so it kinda makes sense that `q' quits the *info* buffer. I think the way it operates now feels natural, even though it's a bit special. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Oct 07 00:31:54 2020 Received: (at 40915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Oct 2020 04:31:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54787 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kQ17J-0006Ik-Rq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Oct 2020 00:31:54 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:40072) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kQ17I-0006IV-Rj for 40915@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Oct 2020 00:31:53 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=BCMiQRBL46Dd5UdH+ozJlaeyUa1uhsm74FkakZXIais=; b=q+2I3f32MBqdSWwslqDWH/arIT 68zQy5AZOITXCbx1Ja97wZ175VT/3A+D8zZP33qfUuEuCYE3WqHjM951Zi1UkyRMdl2whqA7+EZKg S9HQiUZM/XPdRiLij41rMvNMuGJPB1E+MdwGxxSntpoAVmYBFPi7hOxTpVv7OzaBl6uU=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kQ179-00016k-R0; Wed, 07 Oct 2020 06:31:46 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#40915: [PATCH] Make leaving Info-summary more intuitive References: <878sep2v4c.fsf@gnus.org> X-Now-Playing: Jamie XX's _In Colour_: "Loud Places" Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2020 06:31:42 +0200 In-Reply-To: <878sep2v4c.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sat, 08 Aug 2020 14:13:39 +0200") Message-ID: <87362q64i9.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: >> There's a small issue with the Info-summary command: >> >> 0. emacs -Q >> 1. C-h i >> 2. ? >> 3. q >> >> Result: Now in *scratch* buffer >> Expected: Should end up in *info* buffer > > Hm... yes, t [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40915 Cc: 40915@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: >> There's a small issue with the Info-summary command: >> >> 0. emacs -Q >> 1. C-h i >> 2. ? >> 3. q >> >> Result: Now in *scratch* buffer >> Expected: Should end up in *info* buffer > > Hm... yes, that is a bit surprising... but the *Help* buffer `?' pops > up is very special -- hitting any key (unbound) key does the normal `q' > action, so it kinda makes sense that `q' quits the *info* buffer. > > I think the way it operates now feels natural, even though it's a bit > special. There didn't seem to be much enthusiasm for changing the behaviour here (even if it is untypical for Emacs), so I'm closing this bug report. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Oct 07 00:32:01 2020 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Oct 2020 04:32:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54790 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kQ17R-0006JC-5K for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Oct 2020 00:32:01 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:40086) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kQ17P-0006Il-3M for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Oct 2020 00:31:59 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=UJfTUJYpzK62UONL7jBVb2BPmZE0rTPaW1u9a2EC+Hg=; b=IJN4ub6g6lfbXBwC10oF0TzhI1 3XcRy5s1y72DBkPoL5Z3bKXJyf1YF0lWPmCAFCZ0Az/k+Hyhf5zDAzn75rrDgZnOiHPOmLw3b+32n GJe9dlQtZMNJKak1G1DUEVYYKLhCFArFeCChlRIqcnRTVADXHAWiaKR9QBlOlgXXBH7U=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kQ17H-00016t-A2 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Oct 2020 06:31:53 +0200 Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2020 06:31:50 +0200 Message-Id: <871ria64i1.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #40915 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: close 40915 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) close 40915 quit From unknown Mon Sep 08 01:47:59 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2020 12:24:05 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator