From unknown Wed Aug 20 06:39:52 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#40773: newsticker documentation Resent-From: Boruch Baum Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 15:56:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 40773 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 40773@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: Emacs Bug Reporting Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.158757093617044 (code B ref -1); Wed, 22 Apr 2020 15:56:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Apr 2020 15:55:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52995 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jRHiq-0004Qp-GQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 11:55:36 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:51076) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jRHip-0004Qi-7I for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 11:55:35 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47714) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jRHio-00029u-Ah for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 11:55:34 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,FREEMAIL_FROM,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jRHin-0001RN-HB for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 11:55:34 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.15]:54331) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jRHim-0001ON-Qn for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 11:55:33 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1587570931; bh=2iAUyQ2uTrDn+ZYaht32fUUBphrDcFfkDGyU7N4O9bA=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:From:To:Subject; b=UxSqY4h/LpwXUN/4WhuDwLfQxtmERcMkSoo9Ow9hLEkz0E/mOGGg2x4ltynklrjfy ElJwSynCSXW4OQmJU+EigcQff/uSExIjS6+jNSIocxCMXaqeQ0yku0FeMKdQetLgCz L4kq4/+mOC2wzuYDlDpa+z3CSfdM4V1My5BM/zP8= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from E15-2016.optimum.net ([100.38.74.74]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.184]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1M7b2d-1jZH0J20bt-00869z for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 17:55:30 +0200 Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 11:55:28 -0400 From: Boruch Baum Message-ID: <20200422155528.ccsjljhamqeaocsd@E15-2016.optimum.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:14pmxwKDMXqRjVe2hbNDgb+xxkEetvXHPOf1wAygEVWpEbEe+I6 nlDTyD0pToPJETEk3bYhMK+Pys5Ksg+gj0v4nOSQdboJVmcRkoL6U8eYnP/NC2ROHFqqMhP PwtBPAHsSk31u/RfVv9U1c0TQ4fxqian7v8o15YwudXK+rarcoqGeav52zDdBvWk6jbHn3A iCUCcFZ9ZNgh3AAV+KiBw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:GHV4eZuJqxc=:XFfp9YSlJ+jXMuO/dVCtE/ e58BPrkezGbXRehOqL9tfQ5kBNIzVqsJEWgCXdkhd8JFO/PzeskA65FA3srz6AS01ik5wwkZJ UM94zAHCf1LVsz+lXHqNVyCxsYtCidb8GnnjhlDoOi5llUkjiuEuVlkIHtQsh9GxeI3R7STO6 Qa16ZKnUWVTpp0qp7I6eKUpWAVoF/nRFqyYttWXPStbPLmBqb1HGaW1hZ44+OS/KUHz3QN/wa 5WCcLuLvqX54Pf2YtboCGqNSz8i9sZwz0eV2Sas6pRmplMPXbzWzs9Qoee0g3os6H3IQgRB96 xyxwjdybPAZ5YBo8kHZB6IvCUmF2JOrIYVqPpA5xT3UywKiUIAPBJmiX6pLhZ9LrCBDRiE0Vp 92PasVfgBPOzuzVu318eZGdLlqwBuZZC+eTSsVN/X4Y0B7eXzTIPK731LOg3KnDq4fg/GINk5 GBdXQR51qAB5Q058YyLpXZwtKKqevwZ4SeZl1k1X0637dP5RNKG9CS5wJ4zLjbYmQaF93BaZH ayUVwpIsQ6crDuPa8oPlCL3lP9reIvPY/2zmpwcbA9tSqxSAkyCcnSYty/HTwgkG3Gxb2aCMm ECGkpAeRd90auSA1ZNlHx3Vj54gNuh8cQaUdW5rSKdqQOfG8gREQ3LZ6arXTJhxU/EeMo9wBb SpCEN+a7atuwjYDxeca4mZwpxz4+jeBQI5N0REWPKtt5i+aoC6O1eWXxqigy4mP22hzykLBrF rRUyXNPMBGGBngm3nCKBZDDqtHKMsV9iO+4y9IMw/QiP6jVVw8pioWGkBphEmSDfzK6ViXqcf yyZ81yn8cyPSAvfYds0A6bEk++1rgcbJo3NTt0METoDGGtt18H0sxHcbytfPjTw+QBV1MXELy itewzEuzSvFZuAVdM+ZtXXqDXtzE3cYuY33geEbDxb1qFRbs6OB49RvvR+rZApSeXSk3+8r+b qdYAY1B0DDeYQ7/ludOHnEoB2VZYAxloOfk3s3q9PvB8zV6ZDaFg0+maZr1qcwQEDg6XU7OP+ iC1YKBAQTpwA/oCTzTWpEvZCDoFX0XFzLXWRJuda3PHnYnJVtONrlkPmoUJa7RWfIlXely9hS QjbPHuUgsgFiFiwJujjsU7vtKdNQhhsEP0I4YRZ2GDkF64JJXpdEYPuGA/kN6LfA3hwE1K/8E 1tmYpxihihAalbG9CqpmtRCTi+X1wDlJ2d1zckrz4DmY2RwGih5wwyCr6rNlqJF+WGaPOLh8E Uk+EtsH4EbOfxrJKc Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.15; envelope-from=boruch_baum@gmx.com; helo=mout.gmx.net X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/04/22 11:47:54 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 212.227.15.15 X-Spam-Score: 2.2 (++) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: I just discovered the existence of `newsticker' bundled into emacs; however, I see not even a cursory mention of it in the emacs manual. At the very least, there should be a short stub entry in the em [...] Content analysis details: (2.2 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: gnupg.net] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (boruch_baum[at]gmx.com) 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 0.9 SPF_FAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (fail) [SPF failed: Please see http://www.openspf.org/Why?s=mfrom; id=boruch_baum%40gmx.com; ip=209.51.188.17; r=debbugs.gnu.org] -0.7 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, low trust [209.51.188.17 listed in list.dnswl.org] 2.0 SPOOFED_FREEMAIL No description available. X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) I just discovered the existence of `newsticker' bundled into emacs; however, I see not even a cursory mention of it in the emacs manual. At the very least, there should be a short stub entry in the emacs manual, next to the index entry for * Gnus:: A flexible mail and news reader. BTW: I'm finding newsticker frustrating, unintuitive, not honoring its own customization commands without restart, and not intuitively stopping itself upon 'quit'. If this package is meant to be a supported part of emacs, let me know, and when I make a second attempt at using it, I can compose a few bug reports. =2D- hkp://keys.gnupg.net CA45 09B5 5351 7C11 A9D1 7286 0036 9E45 1595 8BC0 From unknown Wed Aug 20 06:39:52 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#40773: newsticker documentation Resent-From: Ulf Jasper Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 13:10:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 40773 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Boruch Baum Cc: 40773@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 40773-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B40773.1588079344797 (code B ref 40773); Tue, 28 Apr 2020 13:10:02 +0000 Received: (at 40773) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Apr 2020 13:09:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39308 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTPyy-0000Cn-Dh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 09:09:04 -0400 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.15.4]:57081) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTPyv-0000CH-Ps for 40773@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 09:09:03 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=dbaedf251592; t=1588079335; bh=jHHcuwJA1/3uYPQEygToL7w44x6gMFvIRB72lqzKgBg=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=TRqD+PPnvKUswkE9GqW+Wrn6sT3FnB111GTAxU+02HnStCAT+ZX1LFyWbE5LOzxts hXm5BsYptVmfaEgxXYblLibIlewdtqch/pdiMxM8/ETYcYFY+8cs/7mpcvWTdm2iV0 XCy+/i0zwxlIf7snllp1ilEtrjwr1Rj60LkSsmPA= X-UI-Sender-Class: c548c8c5-30a9-4db5-a2e7-cb6cb037b8f9 Received: from udesktop ([79.213.248.194]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb001 [213.165.67.108]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MYNof-1jgwcQ25MP-00V7lA; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 15:08:55 +0200 From: Ulf Jasper References: <20200422155528.ccsjljhamqeaocsd@E15-2016.optimum.net> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 15:08:51 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20200422155528.ccsjljhamqeaocsd@E15-2016.optimum.net> (Boruch Baum's message of "Wed, 22 Apr 2020 11:55:28 -0400") Message-ID: <87h7x33ggs.fsf@panama> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:oOp4MdMBzKPrIGQDCa3hVIBexpPMsh6qE0FXkl7t6x0YOYR2VlL X9iwdPE5px4mdbXFtey/nzmEY3GrD1fcv+DwkIVr7aYOpPBcXpLBsPrcTmxrK4IVt0Zszzg jkbFQPORJ2FkMOZJBWsQ9A+Lo4EuezvS4+olKDx/lPFZmkii1ky6K7EYXp6LpM6wSLJQJ60 /rYo8ZlxVf7AYqKK0Vclw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:IoykN+OiDB8=:q8tRxnWhmi9OnKVFnSYblk D3kcXAVo+HfjQCQqYR5tkYOZ+rQ3a2+NqmoPSnLPfebxoZSm3t0PqN2WS5dMg7r7T7f2gjzvz IERlOAVTVyH3zDgYIp0oLkAwshHx+laI/uP9FO+RuPs4DFNiAzPOYnLv3UuxUqrfjAZVuPr5B ZECCOV8mV9zsXsO3Il+OBYapBtJKsQxIJ9tRDEBvyQ/opf3tFCt1E+UV+6fGQlLVx/oe8TGcX +G4z9huosFQMSKVeYGhlwN6+NR2J1xP1ZEyu14DZIwsl29HPJbGbIzwkCVEuYIj9E9SUg99qH u1duzBNpy0jOZdK/wDopUsrxflRxmcrxNYbQmK2mv178roaw89zsaNbL8X/0z4lEirKcZl+51 Gc8H29XUNtRgvF6KHeQGwnP9cvYHzVWwVmaDsh7lxHbcNEg8brzkrN3W3zCLn0ZY8JUUPEenK Xk2bkOxTCKXQo2Lcj8AmmzXIIMn7cA6LElOJihz3acnbioSWdYfxCA6c/91SaLR0NCE5UiEnu ofRWzmhoUy+4xDyANMW1SkpjJ4zuDEOI2uJHRZ1QrZhPnKulxeojPGoODOa9vuYQyJcSFBImx jjC1J2qd3med3AcSgXzGMvtlG8+GiY0Le9cXoD9ajMXYgnjBpD1zH0VN6URtV/g98FsBsQKDE ifoj+J50StXcwNoXkvG2bRWUcVrAwYKOrZCavKvD0iCQmD1s5S8xHTBnE6jYSxKc5tHYM/J5o xy3OkZ9Hvlp3U2Xfk5qhZgkdQfyeaw8fs9Icc7MR5BYzu6ySUNUFqHmsY0hhCQSoiR7SnZQL7 msnQKjL6Bpu0nDMSOO9CiOn+sO2RjNvSNjxbiW8iPz7ddaMbeaOk4CAzyvYJ+pe2qUA1zYteO PvixxoVV1G2Hy000XGMtmEcbzj90+t/84nMpx1MFAMLJu5r93D4ZqmeY8TIN0v2agF+gjcL0+ NrzCZA1ZMQAep36FNHufDtdCx2IubUUdSmQNHCYupXjaX0/jlVh2XqDSfnsd0fwQ/m1DEoKJB FASZ4h65iLf69+deywxytNIRuALcrEV50kM7fHyCOd6mJzme61fHuqEGJfDfVgYcS6eo12SoV ebfd6E+xmIpFzg0AJkavbI6/rfcnX+Ej38c9C4r4NG18SiwaPx5v0yK3Vrt9ftIXPkuZP2W6W Rzhol/S9hHTgJSJUH34KvDYsiwikDSaqcPJr5y4YL1OPouJIMwTk6a6iZRKfH7H4fic6SoNbD o5mCIvFfQPxayNhss X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Am 22.04.2020 um 11:55 (-0400) schrieb Boruch Baum: > I just discovered the existence of `newsticker' bundled into emacs; > however, I see not even a cursory mention of it in the emacs manual. At > the very least, there should be a short stub entry in the emacs manual, > next to the index entry for > > * Gnus:: A flexible mail and news reader. You should find newsticker documentation in its own manual: * Newsticker: (newsticker). A feed reader for Emacs. > BTW: I'm finding newsticker frustrating, unintuitive, not honoring > its own customization commands without restart, and not intuitively > stopping itself upon 'quit'. If this package is meant to be a supported > part of emacs, let me know, and when I make a second attempt at using > it, I can compose a few bug reports. newsticker still is part of Emacs, so please go ahead, compose bug reports. Regards, ulf From unknown Wed Aug 20 06:39:52 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#40773: newsticker documentation Resent-From: Boruch Baum Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 04:19:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 40773 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Ulf Jasper Cc: 40773@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 40773-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B40773.158813390626440 (code B ref 40773); Wed, 29 Apr 2020 04:19:02 +0000 Received: (at 40773) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Apr 2020 04:18:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42121 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTeB0-0006sM-7Z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 00:18:26 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.22]:44797) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTeAy-0006s7-8i for 40773@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 00:18:24 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1588133898; bh=WZ2XBHPrdVSoi5Hh+H/uhD/LecMPUMtKOZVId5Ayd4A=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=cqTouxUVBth1WtsKjHIabX0+MM21ukdJTCFQqd0EQjzdJTwOnpBT11Oryj1BIeGiy Im6LWMaQnuIQN9pQpateJV5HHqD8WtCDTEr+/1p/AnZbMJvdB0Uo65wiu++wF+u5NX 2+6VpB0p0IFWSIfuDksTnG9ztTTNoU0WQ5iDouks= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from E15-2016.optimum.net ([100.38.74.74]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx104 [212.227.17.174]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1M9Fnj-1jZRjq2cIp-006SAs; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 06:18:17 +0200 Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 00:18:15 -0400 From: Boruch Baum Message-ID: <20200429041745.srdhgypy5v27e3mv@E15-2016.optimum.net> References: <20200422155528.ccsjljhamqeaocsd@E15-2016.optimum.net> <87h7x33ggs.fsf@panama> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87h7x33ggs.fsf@panama> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:ZVc7nN0L7TclC5slXggz0pKF5nm99nCQPDAdq0g6PyYe03RHNj6 KX/H5xnFOEjosTWhPV1LRC8osobwF8E2BiwgtNiKRo3X0DjAZkX90+ivjZf+vW1YtgQDvyG 7Jq4S+vZF/fQZigybvw2GtMv7fJ5Nbw1/3Yc1zJwQQbpQPRVeEKuYdPmz2VoIhFpQAYBb1g r7tK1lY0gDGfuvQy0P6Yg== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:Nz58pdX0fPk=:oHhmOdjQ2ek9iADqo9RX9E 9SDiIKVsNGUNicbatSGnICHjZRuHKkYtng6odD1mz+xQt1WpShXf+sei5JCg8FlQkfhNI5FaB eCRQS6f4q99JBbZ+Eu99Fl3YtFJf4qWPWAHRa4voFI9DB8h/GIhTjlm+oxo5z07A4LMk/y2LN ckrVJg9vMxBXPLAqgqmyKC5XFxC7jrQxa264ENwuS+8m3z18Mjroq9sf8VG2ac5zGruM7IkLR 8G32UjiMlHvbn04inRtBArZdbqDmEEtetvZPiYo7MnMThOOG0gPdYNy9XGw9VF0duO9L/xeBi L6xqq7+BIqWHQ498Uuj0Yisrt1b77i+T2B/sn4v7S1PI0zM8m3Xtf6RmiuETgX40OpfKu6LvG VtP8eca5V8sIGUnBtLiNVS3gOAdD/12j1FWJpOiNMfWJ9XzmP1zS7s0KikqQcexQOPA7joji7 m7D2Ck+OYIJLqbyZAY4c8q1ISPs5ymoS8uCYkQ5TSnMZFSGblKlY8WAJZTY1nI7FxUyLH4fpd iJ/xfOR9rxvTLEAHkomsEU9V9NQKjrTFqHm/vmtHnM6nPsdfJnxINx6X/UrQOVPc4U4wzA4c0 hu3/XgZmybdGi1ABVS/YDP+JKuKfrWARvNPriwbDY2VaVaR4M5O2ACO+ISwgYqq/lrdLxk8nb FDQ+EmF1Tt1grvX2ESvjyzzSeQ3WQ7XFgWxAb0Ka2/vyyy71NUli1Z/og/TBr2z1SPYvI5Hgx Qys4jUdAiMorI7GiPGgWesUgpmc+bmd79tT46iHeoOQPM3o0ac6jxsXZr6tIUFvu8yb89fr2P iqXdvNC+I5vT1cGiBTZaE4JJJVi8ajcIeMZO1S9qQ8iI8wpbs9drfG9A32iiGYyGElao7/+xh u8cV8aGeUXJvAm2+WMyiiIyWCSH7wHveWD0XNOzF4ytnwXf+4fcetYI9DHzqGI/dOv6WBDzru qmntwaeDzU0Y4cBEpGHKW7ZeldA4VlUsZNKve03j/9DFJ9g/th81EZ5S+BCcu09btYgACjbrZ 57A+y87zG+7slpB1eOywKhOEiwkRCdgV50COgNPdfuOVsCBm6muHJ7J+4MTz/UPOT0iiy6ku2 Owxpo8g3VI4ekKJ7TF/d8JJPUx3x6kLj0gTVcjMHoGaFOhwiHT1heG25mXKdeJGkNnUJ53I+r uJ+tfXVrEn2wkwFqp1krmRbcv6OPX0ehSFWETEKWRcJGBsrotKKTTMhS9ck1aAxh5VmrbQdyc JRxpOUgd7jj9hFh93 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) On 2020-04-28 15:08, Ulf Jasper wrote: > Am 22.04.2020 um 11:55 (-0400) schrieb Boruch Baum: > > I just discovered the existence of `newsticker' bundled into emacs; > > however, I see not even a cursory mention of it in the emacs manual. A= t > > the very least, there should be a short stub entry in the emacs manual= , > > next to the index entry for > > > > * Gnus:: A flexible mail and news reader. > > You should find newsticker documentation in its own manual: > > * Newsticker: (newsticker). A feed reader for Emacs. That's great, but the point of my report is that there should be a reference to it in the emacs manual, and that reference should be alongside similar emacs packages (eg. gnus). It's not intuitive to check outside of the emacs manual from inside emacs. A user (ahem, me) discovers newsticker in emacs, and by habit looks for it by instinctively typing C-h R. I can understand the situation needs to be different for emacs-related packages that are not bundled into emacs itself and aren't 'part of emacs', but for packages that have become part of the default emacs distribution, the documentation should be withing the emacs manual. IMO, that should be the standard behavior for all similar packages. Further, as a corollary, I suggest that packages bundled in the default emacs distribution should NOT have info nodes in the emacs section of the root info index, ie. no duplication. Either the emacs section of the root info index should be restricted to non-default emacs packages, or there shouldn't exist such a section at all, and the emacs manual should have a section for external packages. =2D- hkp://keys.gnupg.net CA45 09B5 5351 7C11 A9D1 7286 0036 9E45 1595 8BC0 From unknown Wed Aug 20 06:39:52 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#40773: newsticker documentation Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 08:00:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 40773 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Boruch Baum Cc: ulf.jasper@web.de, 40773@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 40773-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B40773.158814715915164 (code B ref 40773); Wed, 29 Apr 2020 08:00:03 +0000 Received: (at 40773) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Apr 2020 07:59:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42287 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jThcj-0003wV-JP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 03:59:19 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:47376) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jThcg-0003wE-1k for 40773@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 03:59:15 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:49852) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jThca-00029g-GI; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 03:59:08 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3161 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jThcX-0003FQ-RA; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 03:59:06 -0400 Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 10:58:47 +0300 Message-Id: <838sie205k.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <20200429041745.srdhgypy5v27e3mv@E15-2016.optimum.net> (message from Boruch Baum on Wed, 29 Apr 2020 00:18:15 -0400) References: <20200422155528.ccsjljhamqeaocsd@E15-2016.optimum.net> <87h7x33ggs.fsf@panama> <20200429041745.srdhgypy5v27e3mv@E15-2016.optimum.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 00:18:15 -0400 > From: Boruch Baum > Cc: 40773@debbugs.gnu.org > > On 2020-04-28 15:08, Ulf Jasper wrote: > > Am 22.04.2020 um 11:55 (-0400) schrieb Boruch Baum: > > > I just discovered the existence of `newsticker' bundled into emacs; > > > however, I see not even a cursory mention of it in the emacs manual. At > > > the very least, there should be a short stub entry in the emacs manual, > > > next to the index entry for > > > > > > * Gnus:: A flexible mail and news reader. > > > > You should find newsticker documentation in its own manual: > > > > * Newsticker: (newsticker). A feed reader for Emacs. > > That's great, but the point of my report is that there should be a > reference to it in the emacs manual, and that reference should be > alongside similar emacs packages (eg. gnus). I'm sorry, but that's impractical. Emacs comes with 58 manuals (and 2 FAQ files in Info format) in addition to the 3 "standard" ones. We mention the most important of them in the Emacs manual, but we cannot possible mention all of them. Gnus is so much larger and more important than newsticker that any comparison of how we treat these two is IMO not useful for any practical discussion. Users should become acquainted with the info-display-manual command, and use it whenever they find a package that may have a separate manual. That command offers completion, so it will tell you very quickly whether a given package has an Info manual. Another useful command in this context is "C-h p". E.g., select "news" from the menu this displays, then select "newsticker", and you will see some useful description of the package and its usage. > Further, as a corollary, I suggest that packages bundled in the default > emacs distribution should NOT have info nodes in the emacs section of > the root info index, ie. no duplication. Either the emacs section of the > root info index should be restricted to non-default emacs packages, or > there shouldn't exist such a section at all, and the emacs manual should > have a section for external packages. I don't think I understand what you propose here. What is "the root info index"? is that the Emacs menu in the DIR file, or is that the top-level menu in the emacs.info file? From unknown Wed Aug 20 06:39:52 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#40773: newsticker documentation Resent-From: Boruch Baum Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:13:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 40773 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: ulf.jasper@web.de, 40773@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 40773-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B40773.158815154522290 (code B ref 40773); Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:13:02 +0000 Received: (at 40773) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Apr 2020 09:12:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42428 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTilV-0005nS-DH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 05:12:25 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.21]:35345) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTilT-0005nD-CL for 40773@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 05:12:23 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1588151536; bh=niJuYJUjlQgOkO5d1SJzA00+d7dOIfwOVWDlGXAUQzw=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=BQ57e4sRlYKRoW7Xq4QTNPaW2fx/Pd+mWW7Tt8Tolba6aTcpQ2QciBf5ACNVApeLl Nm5TLT2jK2QGB6i0rbkuk9zpT6OgGVxf4vNyPIn5VIBd6TSWfyhu+0otbVKDUqXKsz g60GF2NZEdGh0biKLxovKeDWoutSZhGdoW9rpu6E= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from E15-2016.optimum.net ([100.38.74.74]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx104 [212.227.17.174]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MWici-1jei9w1ZWq-00X1Qq; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 11:12:16 +0200 Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 05:12:13 -0400 From: Boruch Baum Message-ID: <20200429091213.rtyoo537qgccbccz@E15-2016.optimum.net> References: <20200422155528.ccsjljhamqeaocsd@E15-2016.optimum.net> <87h7x33ggs.fsf@panama> <20200429041745.srdhgypy5v27e3mv@E15-2016.optimum.net> <838sie205k.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <838sie205k.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:j+W8aNLtU6jRpRR5yzlrgpyfpa3fDmUUbcCKdN19lyOrY4DO7J1 LcGhgNA+H9MRBOdDjtFijhc3LL12YPEJVt+VuGfCL3PGVSDsRsQYhMDK4wfBGJS8BtSCl9R kdINiyR9uTZTAvCNJ6AqineXoR13sJEs5DP+39txqWy2Zj22RMaO1ELEv1bVG8Vaea4/q7f 7ygbZImQAoyQ9jvo7cxpg== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:8dZYJHC6kuA=:YVkyVv9TmWvswb0QtMGXFe wOFCZQmxIeI6Koanq8bK/Z24zhckkiFU0oJEXdrq7qReVzaACtUue0BYK2jdXekiwFBwFCZAG gz3JGrTCCav5bda/Hap/WasYcFszUpcoFGCi92q3xctq3oTe2ZTL5blEXSSZeW2uoFsbWy9Nd 1IPFdd642mhJr1GUEkIbO0R1dawu+3UXHuYOCsy5cZZRu2nf/KZDoXiHmbktYur0HbZLhpeg6 uixq7ULcgLUfEyzIXgofiR8udUTfgX59+fMv/jb49j6ZilRsoO5hiu0p8iLaSDsX/BLlnSboX HRf/jNjm27agxqGJACE75uOVG68x5bF9Gw6rjirn4XE/w9+9N/sObPP7U3Fx6JUuJNet41yyn la4MR2cip2ml1vS1r2aWNKcap+eT14W2w77hWgeldf04sluMNN9Dqn4PX5Yk24dqcoUQe8uZe CjRF8Gm7+iqLiInt7mOdUTxEPdGMwTliLE31yTHtMlAExpyW5r7MgjfjWkwO+kmrH1BFzrntl dZiNOMmqj2vlL0nKvcAqKSb7xJEPzPJEHa3e5ZVlDONfBKA/RbyAk9xTSqGy4ybkY8yE0jh4n TV420x8/O/jIuZAuskhLqalfl09HNVvAW1YGacfVjuNr8QjwfVBTfxwgDdJj2VamM8ZfhrE0P YUy6IVUea6JcuT8xyhvRcobleiiEyOKOChCHaAfbnC4Gjp+ZMj2zbY9yGzekgATo9iMe7P9ql P+aQUSWboJI3yEhia6BuZF8hwGfwVEOLbRKX6qIunzIkMdCQzrCdnvJAWEYe4/SO5T3IuBfY7 BsuzV5LVhItMGqxMxGRjhvKYY9vK4Pf0DdUxz7idOduU5/63/pR97sft/ylIDhe5clJnt1H/6 b6S5bkViF44vIUM+jSh1EhxrOzXAH/hJByYYZTigHJeG7bwEgAWlkf3JrBpEuPaDSB8/R070C j7xJjUn4XkVyKOC40paLjQy6qdODj/XuyUhyt7J6utkaULYaPGj/vm5863CuqEfGThBbg+iUa xY+glabDCgt6tjzZjAgm6UoyRijpZYKoLqa6vD0AmzhjpaeT6sRV+yUBnvWNOWn6oLbYt1lHZ Lc6dd1uMDnPp96TelGGBCNgibi8Mg7d/UYnQkbvEkFoUNk8m4Gf5kkya1BKGUMgxTERmHcEFS +IfcTlu5Sbcr4dqrQ8DsPYT2RmuNCIZvW+wCOdkGW8DAV4Ildyxsfpth0OEVDzUnnPIZICjXu HnoDuIgB8DjabiUOW Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On 2020-04-29 10:58, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > I'm sorry, but that's impractical. Impractical? Step back and re-read what you wrote: > Emacs comes with 58 manuals (and 2 FAQ files in Info format) in > addition to the 3 "standard" ones. That's practical? Certainly not from a user's perspective. My guess is that it's by far a world record for the number of manuals for a single package. I understand the evolutionary circumstances that led to the situation, but it's not intelligent design (bump). > We mention the most important of them in the Emacs manual, but we > cannot possible mention all of them. Why not? It's --only-- 58. They likely don't change very often. After the initial work, which I'm guessing will amount 58 text lines in a single .texi file (is that how it works?), how often will it need to be changed? > Gnus is so much larger and more important than newsticker that any > comparison of how we treat these two is IMO not useful for any > practical discussion. That attitude prejudices newsticker into guaranteed obscurity, when the developer attitude should be to promote and advertise. > Users should become acquainted with the info-display-manual command, > and use it whenever they find a package that may have a separate > manual. That sounds reasonable for info manuals of packages that aren't part of emacs. For such packages, because they are external, there is sense to keeping their associated info manuals external, if only as a quality measure since the emacs project can't dictate the editorial standards of those documents. Even so, it's not user-friendly to force all users to go through a two-step process to find a manual. And... If you feel strongly about the utility of the info-display-manual command, that command should have a keybinding by default and should appear in the output of the help-for-help command (C-h ?). > That command offers completion, so it will tell you very quickly > whether a given package has an Info manual. I pseudo-randomly tried and failed to find: emerge, calendar, diary, latex. Some time ago, maybe years ago, I pointed out in another bug report that package cua-rect-mode, which seemed to have powerful and useful features, lacked documentation, so I tried it also. Still nothing. At the very least, if even just a basic small documentation stub exists in a centralized single emacs manual, it: 1] becomes a launch point for expansion; 2] rescues a package from obscurity. > Another useful command in this context is "C-h p". E.g., select > "news" from the menu this displays, then select "newsticker", and you > will see some useful description of the package and its usage. Yep. It is very useful, but now we're up to a three-step process: `C-h r',= `M-x info-display-manual', and `C-h p'. > > Further, as a corollary, I suggest that packages bundled in the defaul= t > > emacs distribution should NOT have info nodes in the emacs section of > > the root info index, ie. no duplication. Either the emacs section of t= he > > root info index should be restricted to non-default emacs packages, or > > there shouldn't exist such a section at all, and the emacs manual shou= ld > > have a section for external packages. > > I don't think I understand what you propose here. What is "the root > info index"? is that the Emacs menu in the DIR file That sounds right. I meant what I see when I type `C-h i'. =2D- hkp://keys.gnupg.net CA45 09B5 5351 7C11 A9D1 7286 0036 9E45 1595 8BC0 From unknown Wed Aug 20 06:39:52 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#40773: newsticker documentation Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:35:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 40773 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Boruch Baum Cc: ulf.jasper@web.de, 40773@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 40773-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B40773.158815289224465 (code B ref 40773); Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:35:01 +0000 Received: (at 40773) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Apr 2020 09:34:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42444 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTj7D-0006MX-PL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 05:34:51 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:59524) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTj7B-0006MK-K3 for 40773@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 05:34:50 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:51311) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTj76-0002p0-3X; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 05:34:44 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1160 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jTj75-0000xY-Dp; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 05:34:43 -0400 Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 12:34:25 +0300 Message-Id: <83v9lizlcu.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <20200429091213.rtyoo537qgccbccz@E15-2016.optimum.net> (message from Boruch Baum on Wed, 29 Apr 2020 05:12:13 -0400) References: <20200422155528.ccsjljhamqeaocsd@E15-2016.optimum.net> <87h7x33ggs.fsf@panama> <20200429041745.srdhgypy5v27e3mv@E15-2016.optimum.net> <838sie205k.fsf@gnu.org> <20200429091213.rtyoo537qgccbccz@E15-2016.optimum.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 05:12:13 -0400 > From: Boruch Baum > Cc: ulf.jasper@web.de, 40773@debbugs.gnu.org > > > We mention the most important of them in the Emacs manual, but we > > cannot possible mention all of them. > > Why not? It's --only-- 58. They likely don't change very often. After > the initial work, which I'm guessing will amount 58 text lines in a > single .texi file (is that how it works?), how often will it need to be > changed? I don't think a single line for a package will do. Compare with the descriptions we do have for the manuals we do mention in the Emacs manual. > > > Further, as a corollary, I suggest that packages bundled in the default > > > emacs distribution should NOT have info nodes in the emacs section of > > > the root info index, ie. no duplication. Either the emacs section of the > > > root info index should be restricted to non-default emacs packages, or > > > there shouldn't exist such a section at all, and the emacs manual should > > > have a section for external packages. > > > > I don't think I understand what you propose here. What is "the root > > info index"? is that the Emacs menu in the DIR file > > That sounds right. I meant what I see when I type `C-h i'. Then I don't understand the rationale for removing the entries from there. What useful purpose would that serve? From unknown Wed Aug 20 06:39:52 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#40773: newsticker documentation Resent-From: Boruch Baum Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 18:57:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 40773 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: ulf.jasper@web.de, 40773@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 40773-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B40773.158818656615484 (code B ref 40773); Wed, 29 Apr 2020 18:57:01 +0000 Received: (at 40773) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Apr 2020 18:56:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44598 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTrsL-00041f-Rf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 14:56:06 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.20]:60755) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTrsK-00041C-1x for 40773@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 14:56:04 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1588186557; bh=zVmOxmdam9HMFNbE5b7eRzPaKlImMK1AfuCU3Yujq04=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=LoC/5zlt4NqeK5ruFk+MfgsxXACI3skaNgzBDtoWp9bAhUnTa2sRAluVfyBmCT/YX vqHR7pGMOkpknOWRvMIDMx4/fPlWZlfTmnnRg4NPNev/WfFfJPyb6WDatLPdDC9hpb KSWwOJM0vu5xUwQtVMKIEN+N09z+oN93XajIyHLc= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from E15-2016.optimum.net ([100.38.74.74]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.174]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MDQic-1jMkah0hhG-00Aa7h; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 20:55:57 +0200 Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 14:55:54 -0400 From: Boruch Baum Message-ID: <20200429185554.wd2byg5lksp7ngj5@E15-2016.optimum.net> References: <20200422155528.ccsjljhamqeaocsd@E15-2016.optimum.net> <87h7x33ggs.fsf@panama> <20200429041745.srdhgypy5v27e3mv@E15-2016.optimum.net> <838sie205k.fsf@gnu.org> <20200429091213.rtyoo537qgccbccz@E15-2016.optimum.net> <83v9lizlcu.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83v9lizlcu.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:U+Szob3lzC8377De+lMd4NRgd3LW7AnWN5ehQM5g1yhcEeahgNV rX5Kw2InkRWmTZEmyqxoj+di4upqh6Lwc48jrE3irvUq0wHzBZCzpuqvHHfpgz8Jp0SUxQR DwT3EnIVzjl4/h9CChlCEcGNkAMTJlLPFNctG9PV9tHoDB/N0Rzf4HMJHl+uB/vQDDmzgUB MuRm4gsiXnkLpLd6q4yNg== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:c0PbJy1pHsA=:PgTi7REKSNakX9GjKUvdNM +mGFeN5/GIcWfmCyTYwJt8nTjS1qTiwAU6RKhNPf5O4FTnQbxtnCp5qpi+uLIw1/s0EX7LYUQ DKR8y1Nb81X/DNT5RRYuYnskkQIfHKY4WAimYybF/K/ONaTfYziQGSjb5WIJ5dxCh91UbL/Yt lMqYHejE0P2sghUpA3k1Oe2hnMNQSJ8cE7Og5utv7sFNxf4/ez8mAlUyiN8YuEJSk8wyH/5wQ sx9IS0eEld+f7b24fIrYekeGXlciZVnJPDQIYIwQAMaHjW9sSu6WZGTPQ1qrZ1HHsU93kRJjq UisSNZSuxPW5RuON8ZwVM/s7ABmlF/h9kKjMqlRC7b+bniNyqLkITydH/IdOqwp09z501unJR PXjqImUHgQcFjiAJRF7p25Ey2rnJV0i/tskd2mT9+wBgGsjQX/hgNEuADN1g5jesTkB6d0lz5 8hAF99+XojZ8MrfiDIOdqAkbRWkiocxUESvSenSOs8rf8ei5EJML9Lw7idI6JNOB0g5qnBlMz e0gHVJdm1+Pv3s+RdBbPjQkqo7crFIGOwV3hPB61m06BE0yEV3f9K4g5+eOMm74QrcDeowhlx awmSNRQgs41n/JPrOiTVflDQQf689PtzcCvHyYVwhavth1vc7eWq2yPMTqdPHQ6lyCavSgPCE 42giCMo5xrVKGYRWvmRrg6S8B2VlgfXgUWsXQM8KQDJpPHYnLV53L9c7M49blk22NUvcOkN/n qzBfGegnsOOkFJi0hX8CJwuZCW5GYSEHkoUNLKibK2C7nBmt3LjZAVTcRw2t0djqxU/eUQely K7YljxFkyAI1GgbdOcjnG1cann1rSNg/Z4Mh0GHe4j2PEEQrNGZHckQo9xGgMypMqjQ+a+6+7 lRE+/bFlenFNX2ikc9KfCvfkj+wRswtsL9AEFvEBPay6ef4OtqsdGQszerGhUqtgZ5IPPbYtS 1d9Dr9SqCIHA2ktiCfQJdD2GdagukP6llMpxwUIaAhxjp5oDS0uXb25ftgz8QrUAhA7KsadQ+ vBQMPalr3ll6vanILK8v62QcZXCSR85VRHLaTdacPkoXbrnUqYl4/SgvXZPGYcNxQuDZFPFA5 fP2JeNcvOiNJXmCx39QmIC3Jg/ui1L9w2UC2uVfbcL/3FRolmGtQV5URXHAKYVzNx1k8xBIql knWKeG9aDfbmpd6XHxn7cvhesIqzrYjPoT7OL0YepzGTDHbZUm2uABs4T5NiI7G709V0KrlzA iZ/llMbb61knFG3Vi Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On 2020-04-29 12:34, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 05:12:13 -0400 > > > > Further, as a corollary, I suggest that packages bundled in the de= fault > > > > emacs distribution should NOT have info nodes in the emacs section= of > > > > the root info index, ie. no duplication. Either the emacs section = of the > > > > root info index should be restricted to non-default emacs packages= , or > > > > there shouldn't exist such a section at all, and the emacs manual = should > > > > have a section for external packages. > > > > > > I don't think I understand what you propose here. What is "the root > > > info index"? is that the Emacs menu in the DIR file > > > > That sounds right. I meant what I see when I type `C-h i'. > > Then I don't understand the rationale for removing the entries from > there. What useful purpose would that serve? It manages and guides users' expectations. Emacs should have a single authoritative manual, and users should feel confident that they can turn to a single place for the comprehensive documentation. When you partially duplicate components in a second place, you confuse beginner users as to where to turn for documentation. If it were up to me, the entire Emacs section for M-x info would have just three entries: Emacs * The emacs manual All the features of the default emacs * Your emacs extensions Docs for the add-ons you've installed * Other emacs help Ways to quickly find information The third entry would point to content similar to what is displayed by M-x help-for-help (C-h ?), but also mentioning M-x info-display-manual, and whatever other constructive input gets suggested. =2D- hkp://keys.gnupg.net CA45 09B5 5351 7C11 A9D1 7286 0036 9E45 1595 8BC0 From unknown Wed Aug 20 06:39:52 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#40773: newsticker documentation Resent-From: Boruch Baum Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 19:14:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 40773 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: ulf.jasper@web.de, 40773@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 40773-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B40773.158818760717184 (code B ref 40773); Wed, 29 Apr 2020 19:14:02 +0000 Received: (at 40773) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Apr 2020 19:13:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44633 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTs8u-0004Ss-GW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:13:27 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.21]:41919) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTs8s-0004Se-CU for 40773@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:13:11 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1588187584; bh=tltfr1brIpwv0TNnipYnk09PeOag07znCbc2UoPS87A=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=TUu36g5IEve6tun92X5TSXvzo8wg2AR19N/Vujq3kR+IifvsRSiD8uaRaye8ppFoP VbllLkA/jGGyfXnaJa39plGbAH+x9cuoFkxZzrELRHbHmWcYpoSaFXry1WgxWy1mhH Gv1wDKyJEUvQp8OZfABwV6/wpoMIscbwstduNDbw= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from E15-2016.optimum.net ([100.38.74.74]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx104 [212.227.17.174]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1M5wPb-1jWL6i2WNP-007YDE; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 21:13:03 +0200 Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:13:01 -0400 From: Boruch Baum Message-ID: <20200429191300.3456vbbluowhap54@E15-2016.optimum.net> References: <20200422155528.ccsjljhamqeaocsd@E15-2016.optimum.net> <87h7x33ggs.fsf@panama> <20200429041745.srdhgypy5v27e3mv@E15-2016.optimum.net> <838sie205k.fsf@gnu.org> <20200429091213.rtyoo537qgccbccz@E15-2016.optimum.net> <83v9lizlcu.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83v9lizlcu.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:8TaEE574kQA0I3JE22hm9NrDv5Q1w9MBfdFm9jPQXyeqJJMw4sf zSxLDOKIgw9WzEbq/Mk9e528QSvFeePDI4kvBVFnCQtaFVbc/hhDwF4XPaoDg8Id8opXCi3 g6BX5Fy53ZSBlqff11X5pK4ud23E7cooZ8L+JlMcNf9bPO3RmdYrjlpa6Cmnq+vCJaQUcH5 9yNyZO7+Oege3vRKU1E2w== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:zzcxqQ3rQG8=:bu79uJPyBajNpF3AEZg0e1 0pqV0oYp9JxUgiNKdCsiCc7j5Wuea7cBIdgWT7hVTOd8QXURux0pGJm7V6Yd4tOjkBl3qX0UP 0+rE9/pxaQiF74RKD5f0nPrNKgKftO7O4JkWasPeJCSND0Ri4WQaMA4qSj/aj8fOju4Xwptr9 sbDpmQpAHZoih3TVKDz9rV/ns/C1FZCMFVWrBdPRmBVBwCSqjyc49q5Eep05YRVWdDSsKgz4f UXRwfLwLqxLWXLmMMjgUHArcZkEd3a0+IW8ZijlIms2xyUUIDsNPH00FWCzcyZXccs3bWwyIx PLgnevxFt3AzznpS4A5XPF6J/1Ei7pDqS6e/KQ9Uf07Qv5oURoRWZRoGNjih2um3Yqi1QBgRJ eUhrOfba5omno33P17TtJGjZzxf8n03qLdJyKMf7VI9EDcuKKXW2iQUtkxW5An3I974qXNiPX uKX161/NLzmp7dUMARk5VFfBtnnA+rWNzs9Nn7PYDq7QeIzlPtnUkNX1R/Zxvp18ck8US3Vmc HVRnLhtVBxoVjWdxBTTBoyGmKI7dJFr7n5AqQJTi0Ig6IqAq74wDUx7BcGZzk4ORggVOQmyVM b2S8ZpMsNjHqNEcbmJr2iFq6DMldEru6AXN6LizMLL3Uj4C3z9Rq7NuHtadtN/Umo0cWPePtY +0ZUUW2yC2F8p0xoxR66I39wK3im8ScFgfp54xF8B3i/kwaUAevYmIA+VltEnCmXugOxalF7B lHuoAeAvLLRLHdjsZS+DIwMXTzNR1/T8fS0w9+BpbDd3y+z7R194e8Dt1FDqm7FecOnax+rLJ 1AQluRELzziUu88lWJjQGmg1ZbfwsKDHt3KbjpobuOW8/GzWWnwkjS/jHDswmZq/pRG64kQ+w P8ylWPTUe1K43lJ7mMgB3f1hpk8ftYtBMfIacpG9bDBTHMTj8XUnMM9qBd4ZPr8O5ow96bVmn CsFrBl1ZsFBDS+J+5mSkaFQarLnT57mT/8bR7xBj5X4NgChhWIvZhKbCb56PYjJPVkfaEYUSm BAMiHUwOjj8fV7MP+H4Hoi0SF72jRNz5bdWBRiRKLPzzLv5hGLT1FgstzQB1VPpOy6fss2oue wKqKZPV+naQ1GwdRGenZmdBdCJllIhsMw/c+h6bapRBcbnStv71voM2I57ZczF9qu5IDD7CD3 1WzGuPlAUSR9kwFRLBH/kdR9/BZ9twbs6c5xSRY3YpDDCehxycSLwWN3bJ5UN8xyj/amKDPsk 2RligyVgZAOm2C0bt Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 2020-04-29 12:34, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Then I don't understand the rationale for removing the entries from > there. What useful purpose would that serve? I hit 'send' too soon; no corrections necessary, but some additional comments follow... 1] The section for emacs add-ons should make clear that for features FSF/GNU/emacs has no control over the content and its licensing, can't be depended to offer support, and whatever mumble mumble lawyers insist on including. 2] The proposal neatly divides default emacs from extensions, and is a nice solution, but it is 'lazy' and 'easy' at the expense of trying to provide a single integrated manual that organizes ALL components of any single user's individual emacs by related subject. This more difficult alternative would be a cross between an info index page and the output of M-x info-display-manual. In that case, the root info page would just have a single entry for emacs, maybe even not justifying a separate section labeled emacs. =2D- hkp://keys.gnupg.net CA45 09B5 5351 7C11 A9D1 7286 0036 9E45 1595 8BC0 From unknown Wed Aug 20 06:39:52 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#40773: newsticker documentation Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 19:16:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 40773 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Boruch Baum Cc: ulf.jasper@web.de, 40773@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 40773-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B40773.158818773317418 (code B ref 40773); Wed, 29 Apr 2020 19:16:01 +0000 Received: (at 40773) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Apr 2020 19:15:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44637 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTsB6-0004Wg-DN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:15:33 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40072) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTsB3-0004WS-HS for 40773@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:15:26 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:33450) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTsAy-0005as-7r; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:15:20 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1593 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jTsAw-0004dE-4y; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:15:19 -0400 Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 22:14:59 +0300 Message-Id: <83d07qxfws.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <20200429185554.wd2byg5lksp7ngj5@E15-2016.optimum.net> (message from Boruch Baum on Wed, 29 Apr 2020 14:55:54 -0400) References: <20200422155528.ccsjljhamqeaocsd@E15-2016.optimum.net> <87h7x33ggs.fsf@panama> <20200429041745.srdhgypy5v27e3mv@E15-2016.optimum.net> <838sie205k.fsf@gnu.org> <20200429091213.rtyoo537qgccbccz@E15-2016.optimum.net> <83v9lizlcu.fsf@gnu.org> <20200429185554.wd2byg5lksp7ngj5@E15-2016.optimum.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 14:55:54 -0400 > From: Boruch Baum > Cc: ulf.jasper@web.de, 40773@debbugs.gnu.org > > > Then I don't understand the rationale for removing the entries from > > there. What useful purpose would that serve? > > It manages and guides users' expectations. Emacs should have a single > authoritative manual, and users should feel confident that they can turn > to a single place for the comprehensive documentation. When you > partially duplicate components in a second place, you confuse beginner > users as to where to turn for documentation. > > If it were up to me, the entire Emacs section for M-x info would have just > three entries: > > Emacs > * The emacs manual All the features of the default emacs > * Your emacs extensions Docs for the add-ons you've installed > * Other emacs help Ways to quickly find information What you describe is very different from how the Info system is supposed to be used. We have commands like info-apropos and info-display-manual and info-lookup to free us from the need to browse the top-level Info directory menu. That's because starting from DIR implies a top-down search for what you want, and that is very inefficient. The DIR node also tends to be very large if you have many manuals installed. For example, installing GNU Coreutils will cause DIR to have an entry for every command in that package, and installing glibc will have an entry for every standard C library function there. That's why Info have commands to land you where you want to be, either directly or in a very small number of steps. Basically, an efficient use of Info should cause you to seldom if ever look at DIR; I don't remember when I last looked at it on my system, and I use Info every day. DIR exists to help Info commands find what I'm looking for, not for me to read through it, certainly not frequently. So maybe we should improve the Info commands and the databases they use to make the various packages described in separate manuals more discoverable, but the specific measures you propose look to me like steps in the wrong direction. From unknown Wed Aug 20 06:39:52 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#40773: newsticker documentation Resent-From: Boruch Baum Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 19:26:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 40773 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: ulf.jasper@web.de, 40773@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 40773-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B40773.158818832218476 (code B ref 40773); Wed, 29 Apr 2020 19:26:01 +0000 Received: (at 40773) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Apr 2020 19:25:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44719 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTsKg-0004nw-3C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:25:22 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.22]:33217) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTsKe-0004ng-2O for 40773@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:25:20 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1588188313; bh=3VkSYZHq/81HQypzgVQMTjPJUyNgosA1AAX1paHmQJc=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=Q/UGs2DqzauU1ydIfAr3qP7nOWKN7TDEHDleN+JXuOJsBrXzT1NlEVWIcJD8nAB6y 6OdgQAZEhVm01WTNvaZEmhFQLthMEj4A38eF3WmRpfSarkDaqQ0bxXF5ETL2LZBlty KAo/WcgrVT5CQt4IM0aOPoBenRsBMtmiRAasehHU= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from E15-2016.optimum.net ([100.38.74.74]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx104 [212.227.17.174]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MOA3F-1jnK5I1CLR-00OW71; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 21:25:13 +0200 Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:25:10 -0400 From: Boruch Baum Message-ID: <20200429192510.v2mzvhu7gxuymw74@E15-2016.optimum.net> References: <20200422155528.ccsjljhamqeaocsd@E15-2016.optimum.net> <87h7x33ggs.fsf@panama> <20200429041745.srdhgypy5v27e3mv@E15-2016.optimum.net> <838sie205k.fsf@gnu.org> <20200429091213.rtyoo537qgccbccz@E15-2016.optimum.net> <83v9lizlcu.fsf@gnu.org> <20200429185554.wd2byg5lksp7ngj5@E15-2016.optimum.net> <83d07qxfws.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83d07qxfws.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:ahYYhZbPlES+HlBHK82BCGyhIul0ZZTJ2/2rDz60vChtwzf4lBd kyOn5W20XsmYff5ztAMy5f9Ew45g9SKiD2tG1/fOh9H2g6ckpxLjP6H+i31qYJ8yl/Ygsdq f4grcQtrvuQEzcepQ9zlo3UFM+OnWxYJOTjwfsz1cQwNh36LM+OW7HO1mDHjss+98uOkmHe 6nWgBwhFrhJE3nO44k9mQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:vtrt8H9GRcc=:o7XzeJqw8AfZymP5z5mbut of8f02h5UGM5/LkraOJYxsR7wEo8lcbQmT/Jg+abeKL14bM25cu4ITS3Y59v9ZzsF6sxPdnMU AfkMHVF+M+al0HyxvtUYNm5QAOyRmfBloq+tfXKZFRzxBFt+7fYfAyO3K1zgbG8pO+F6wSW1Q zGSBPTV379kOdTqAAeU2vg8cE/8gAultWZIdzRaOb19SzueYNt0ACtVXGclHZF6mZzhx1L8Ma HGLsr403OzTDnRcxWUO/ZNPMZn8VVxwRhBHpP927FHEmwwLhjzhatPf2sGnKg99dur68fFsTx 2OhyYMf+NI9anMvXjNvh1jfI39dHSQ/gxuo6u/pt0twURd5Ob4kS/+JTwiQYBuu3fC4sBOfK4 +IQbZ7cokQxXWqckVDMlP3mCEWZ2Znw0SZRNwnvxDWhRijKAZxF4gCil0Bicn8TuX3gD+wnoi dchqcru22IVVIc+l+0LYgTzp8xTb0VdWKGX8U0CfEU5HKcUYwuu1vLmhQI+KFHzoJxv9vxXVR C8jhIaAq90bpLrPeK5ECmv+dUnTdxoP5iWPd2qw/+KQCICVvtIKziC+rZQSX4FnwwfuBdwNSR oabZqy8YvRKkfnO0HZC7rXzB/a2yHnt7pgnp/0/nJVoIi64L5uhVIq8rZHaui9sVr2Jr7wqua Y569lRHY6w6IanXUXHJGgnePVneMSsUU6fiQDAP9RTiKXVPcd7X3RJgDHvIkt3UuBNXkCUrpF oSJv3VQ3Pp+iqhATYF7O+O4KldtDJODz790d81HAC+H+Kdy/MvFHe01RZWxmObX4iCxmDbc1J LnT5EQkPmQ+zRkulS0d5UwaXL9O4t9gH37lGTycALZ/VGxmxwNdNy+Bcszz2H6kt+43RuoVmR IXxCItOh+ZHtvzHb4+rHGeGhfIho3V4lVajpDCfRNL9yXAKGEtVzyo9TDwPL1ydkck2vVtm8i A6grWArn+8ZaFY/GaBmll6EmNtq3mnoT6OqaUKo26lNND78nGHPcr7ALZz0mKbEo6UEP1YLcX uDW31TbNUtpp6nVK8UfWp8v4q8ytY80f7pr/nv5e4/1t+maaf7hHgT6rGGeTQDQhJ/Zbhgq6o swgORojAmmo/Wz4G7qnL6Az7XybM41C9FPiAyN7KR9+dNXHUgopEjYBYyROHh/tPY8GCoRos9 qoyYdeyeWizc2fc0q4/prbgXl9MfxvEGabNcYDdYlPbUEm0ilPYAe+fgg7BLEtRJNp5iizGce porjxeArevIX0yhV/ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On 2020-04-29 22:14, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 14:55:54 -0400 > > What you describe is very different from how the Info system is > supposed to be used. No, I'm not making any suggestion how it should be used. Continue to use all the tools you already use. I'm just suggesting how to organize the document, as a book that can be read and browsed through. This brings us back to the initial purpose of this bug report: A person encountering a subject (eg. gnus) should easily see 'nearby' whether similar features exist (eg. newsticker), both part of default emacs. =2D- hkp://keys.gnupg.net CA45 09B5 5351 7C11 A9D1 7286 0036 9E45 1595 8BC0 From unknown Wed Aug 20 06:39:52 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#40773: newsticker documentation Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2022 01:20:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 40773 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: ulf.jasper@web.de, Boruch Baum , 40773@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 40773-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B40773.164419676318540 (code B ref 40773); Mon, 07 Feb 2022 01:20:01 +0000 Received: (at 40773) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Feb 2022 01:19:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40441 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nGsgc-0004oy-UW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2022 20:19:23 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:34286) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nGsgb-0004oi-LN for 40773@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2022 20:19:22 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=I5akK9y39vlxfr3JoiuH7ftP+rBATwJsT5U8ytABJyM=; b=FqvwyqzYpSE7iXvP1sEdQ1e7SK fR//r/FgL4wZ5zTet0UBxf8Tld0tPkrmjGIf4EJ9h6M9wkQmIXUjWfjApKCu8jUMTlz9VpSUKVkSH zR5Bnp/WVS8YB3FdKXwOOCyLHrOFI1peBYWL8yod7WKCJnQnz773vEp914DljBjR2Ke0=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=giant) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nGsgS-00025L-My; Mon, 07 Feb 2022 02:19:15 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <20200422155528.ccsjljhamqeaocsd@E15-2016.optimum.net> <87h7x33ggs.fsf@panama> <20200429041745.srdhgypy5v27e3mv@E15-2016.optimum.net> <838sie205k.fsf@gnu.org> X-Now-Playing: Patrick Cowley & Jorge Socarras's _Catholic_: "Eddie Go To My Head" Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2022 02:19:11 +0100 In-Reply-To: <838sie205k.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 29 Apr 2020 10:58:47 +0300") Message-ID: <87r18fzd68.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> That's great, but the point of my report is that there should be a >> reference to it in the emacs manual, and that reference should be >> alongside similar emacs packages (eg. gnus). > > I'm sorry [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> That's great, but the point of my report is that there should be a >> reference to it in the emacs manual, and that reference should be >> alongside similar emacs packages (eg. gnus). > > I'm sorry, but that's impractical. Emacs comes with 58 manuals (and 2 > FAQ files in Info format) in addition to the 3 "standard" ones. So the conclusion here is that we don't want to add this to the Emacs manual, and I'm therefore closing this bug report. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 06 20:19:28 2022 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Feb 2022 01:19:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40445 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nGsgi-0004pI-5G for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2022 20:19:28 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:34304) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nGsgg-0004oq-Rr for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2022 20:19:27 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=LTuR71Vagi9HV5PtbjEWJxpJXhDMTVNH3vS80nCLsXQ=; b=vFEfqB9HvbwuEQ7IQmohJwi3Wo htCipiV0ELeLOGc9VGF0dGM/Cy9/EpUHA01qaacGVKca64AWTEj0bXN9lZwlqHj4YGL6Ljg0VBAS/ mQwbi7G6ny4+O5Szu9v44wSZC+3+KcfZ7DcwMl+u3GDQtBwYF8UJuUz+K8lBL8dun3Mw=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=giant) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nGsgY-00025Y-Oz for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2022 02:19:21 +0100 Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2022 02:19:18 +0100 Message-Id: <87pmnzzd61.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #40773 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 40773 wontfix close 40773 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) tags 40773 wontfix close 40773 quit