From unknown Mon Aug 18 00:03:44 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#40725 <40725@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#40725 <40725@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings Reply-To: bug#40725 <40725@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2025 07:03:44 +0000 retitle 40725 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings reassign 40725 emacs submitter 40725 "Basil L. Contovounesios" severity 40725 minor tag 40725 patch thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 19 19:31:34 2020 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Apr 2020 23:31:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46229 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jQJPS-00041z-9t for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 19:31:34 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:43792) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jQJPQ-00041r-8B for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 19:31:33 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40400 helo=eggs1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jQJPP-0007JA-Ga for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 19:31:32 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs1p.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jQJPO-0006fu-8g for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 19:31:31 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-x443.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::443]:37341) by eggs1p.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jQJPN-0006ep-No for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 19:31:29 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-x443.google.com with SMTP id k1so9963283wrx.4 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 16:31:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tcd-ie.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=hh+wlAazdeHxLifMtpMs6lEh8A1sy0737uVaLYxyW7c=; b=q0ou670M5T/jF09bvjM/QyZvuG02XP1cJHfppjRHhQVFMm9foJnhbGD26YTT/pSTDg xgZRx5gnj83OsKasMs0TwDBq83ovzcnIcOB3QzQ9JLSeqTGThFKPGX1EqKq5jehRn7h6 TrNxjYd04N6hBgpQFKx+oIRZQJ9odjHWs9NfYisFYRM4TFHMvOLFZz9tExfiojwtGlxa ZWIrCmNCxCNCBjEEVCnADzM29s0OD2bza2F7tP9Ujnt4DF7UJARR1rT9j3DtN/+MBMbY dvCAZkNfWW/YjiQJ38igs3QER78A0Ohf59zpHpqKuUFuVBZ7E7TOiN6tRspMDZYCVrbG oJIA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:date:message-id:user-agent :mime-version; bh=hh+wlAazdeHxLifMtpMs6lEh8A1sy0737uVaLYxyW7c=; b=MmFKiOOv6hiCdRejT9cjExTIjsJ7UJtnCBDuFe4buvCfiKq8ts1H0/2lgo1w0g4uoK FQwWIGV6UPTMxteuLwNd+auAbkOr032aorkNghRneoE01K1MgVRgejJPUtnbKGmKRsb6 20YosL8xn6TT02vLCoRqBXfO/dD7J2KW4VfyWk2jqNXw50MtOrWUzEiQ7WAkwEzkpuM9 TojOToK2NN3C+vAdaivXDMG0vz0fZhgYNCrCESLAXQ7ngqB2/RqRQ/22VSF/wtJ4Rf9o QBCFV3sIZIs7zye0uR8TnUNxUagtOz5Ah/tXMoBgwuDOL1GE5RVCp7LBju1BknnCiG+U V+fA== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuYRoD9Z8muectz923MJCaV4jFyIXaE9OORN57mteCU85u72P7BD xo6dwshzuIU0ORqRYbZUBPagC6tAL8o= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypIJfINOvFPRskEzihufFf6KBTwoecW0taA6mQD5J7ZFSew2asNzdCk9oprRgWPTP8QKo6owEg== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:4248:: with SMTP id s8mr15331519wrr.216.1587339087212; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 16:31:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([2a02:8084:20e2:c380:1f68:7ff5:120d:64e]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n7sm4898413wmd.11.2020.04.19.16.31.26 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 19 Apr 2020 16:31:26 -0700 (PDT) From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 00:31:25 +0100 Message-ID: <87eesj59yq.fsf@tcd.ie> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" Received-SPF: none client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::443; envelope-from=contovob@tcd.ie; helo=mail-wr1-x443.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs1p.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4864:20::443 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Severity: minor Tags: patch In some cases the tutorial can falsely claim that a user's modified key bindings no longer correspond to the tutorial's text: 0. emacs -Q 1. M-x winner-mode RET 2. C-h t The user is then presented with the following: NOTICE: The main purpose of the Emacs tutorial is to teach you the most important standard Emacs commands (key bindings). However, your Emacs has been customized by changing some of these basic editing commands, so it doesn't correspond to the tutorial. We have inserted colored notices where the altered commands have been introduced. [More] Yet no such coloured notices are to be found in TUTORIAL, since winner-mode binds only 'C-c ' and 'C-c ', neither of which is mentioned in the tutorial. Pushing the "More" button gives the following *Help* buffer contents: --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- The following key bindings used in the tutorial have been changed from the Emacs default: Standard Key Command In Your Emacs=20=20=20 C-c mode-specific-command-prefix M-x mode-specific-command-prefix mo= re info It is OK to change key bindings, but changed bindings do not correspond to what the tutorial says. --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- Pushing the "more info" button in turn gives the following *Help* text: --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- Your Emacs customizations override the default binding for this key: The default Emacs binding for the key C-c is the command =E2=80=98mode-specific-command-prefix=E2=80=99. However, your customizatio= ns have rebound it to the command =E2=80=98(keymap (keymap (right . winner-redo) (l= eft . winner-undo)) mode-specific-command-prefix)=E2=80=99. --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- The following patch fixes this: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/x-diff Content-Disposition: inline; filename=0001-Fix-handling-of-changed-prefix-keys-in-tutorial.patch >From 1d607f275458e14d36d00cccdcfb7b7bae55933b Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2020 22:26:25 +0000 Subject: [PATCH] Fix handling of changed prefix keys in tutorial * lisp/tutorial.el (tutorial--find-changed-keys): Use keymapp to detect prefix definitions rather than hard-coding them. A notable omission from the hard-coded list was mode-specific-command-prefix, whose subcommands are often rebound. --- lisp/tutorial.el | 8 +++----- 1 file changed, 3 insertions(+), 5 deletions(-) diff --git a/lisp/tutorial.el b/lisp/tutorial.el index d07737e333..a906af3b5a 100644 --- a/lisp/tutorial.el +++ b/lisp/tutorial.el @@ -427,11 +427,9 @@ tutorial--find-changed-keys ;; Handle prefix definitions specially ;; so that a mode that rebinds some subcommands ;; won't make it appear that the whole prefix is gone. - (key-fun (if (eq def-fun 'ESC-prefix) - (lookup-key global-map [27]) - (if (eq def-fun 'Control-X-prefix) - (lookup-key global-map [24]) - (key-binding key)))) + (key-fun (if (keymapp def-fun) + (lookup-key global-map key) + (key-binding key))) (where (where-is-internal (if rem-fun rem-fun def-fun))) cwhere) -- 2.25.1 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain I don't think this qualifies as urgent enough for inclusion in emacs-27, but I think the fix is harmless enough if desired. WDYT? Thanks, -- Basil In GNU Emacs 27.0.91 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit, Xaw3d scroll bars) of 2020-04-17 built on thunk Repository revision: c36c5a3dedbb2e0349be1b6c3b7567ea7b594f1c Repository branch: emacs-27 Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12008000 System Description: Debian GNU/Linux bullseye/sid Recent messages: For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a. Winner mode enabled Preparing tutorial ... Configured using: 'configure 'CC=ccache gcc' 'CFLAGS=-O0 -g3 -ggdb -gdwarf-4' --config-cache --prefix=/home/blc/.local --program-suffix=27 --enable-checking=yes,glyphs --enable-check-lisp-object-type --with-x-toolkit=lucid --with-file-notification=yes --with-x' Configured features: XAW3D XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG SOUND GPM DBUS GSETTINGS GLIB NOTIFY INOTIFY ACL LIBSELINUX GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE HARFBUZZ M17N_FLT LIBOTF XFT ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS LUCID X11 XDBE XIM MODULES THREADS LIBSYSTEMD JSON PDUMPER LCMS2 GMP Important settings: value of $LANG: en_IE.UTF-8 locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix Major mode: Fundamental Minor modes in effect: winner-mode: t tooltip-mode: t global-eldoc-mode: t electric-indent-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t tool-bar-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t blink-cursor-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t line-number-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t Load-path shadows: None found. Features: (shadow sort mail-extr emacsbug message rmc puny dired dired-loaddefs format-spec rfc822 mml mml-sec password-cache epa derived epg epg-config gnus-util rmail rmail-loaddefs text-property-search time-date subr-x seq byte-opt gv bytecomp byte-compile cconv mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mm-util mail-prsvr mail-utils tutorial help-mode easymenu cl-loaddefs cl-lib cus-start cus-load winner ring tooltip eldoc electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel term/x-win x-win term/common-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode elisp-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page tab-bar menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core term/tty-colors frame minibuffer cl-generic cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese composite charscript charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev obarray cl-preloaded nadvice loaddefs button faces cus-face macroexp files text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote threads dbusbind inotify lcms2 dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting x-toolkit x multi-tty make-network-process emacs) Memory information: ((conses 16 53148 6793) (symbols 48 7187 1) (strings 32 18206 1076) (string-bytes 1 550231) (vectors 16 9603) (vector-slots 8 128508 8846) (floats 8 22 33) (intervals 56 228 0) (buffers 1000 12)) --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 20 10:28:33 2020 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Apr 2020 14:28:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48188 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jQXPV-0002hE-KM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 10:28:33 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:44050 helo=eggs1p.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jQXPU-0002h2-DE for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 10:28:32 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:48157) by eggs1p.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jQXPO-0001oe-NY; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 10:28:26 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2421 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jQXPN-0006q9-4l; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 10:28:26 -0400 Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 17:28:21 +0300 Message-Id: <83wo6agrju.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: "Basil L. Contovounesios" In-Reply-To: <87eesj59yq.fsf@tcd.ie> (contovob@tcd.ie) Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings References: <87eesj59yq.fsf@tcd.ie> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: 40725@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" > Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 00:31:25 +0100 > > 0. emacs -Q > 1. M-x winner-mode RET > 2. C-h t > > The user is then presented with the following: > > NOTICE: The main purpose of the Emacs tutorial is to teach you > the most important standard Emacs commands (key bindings). > However, your Emacs has been customized by changing some of > these basic editing commands, so it doesn't correspond to the > tutorial. We have inserted colored notices where the altered > commands have been introduced. [More] > > Yet no such coloured notices are to be found in TUTORIAL, since > winner-mode binds only 'C-c ' and 'C-c ', neither of which > is mentioned in the tutorial. > > Pushing the "More" button gives the following *Help* buffer contents: > > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- > The following key bindings used in the tutorial have been changed > from the Emacs default: > > Standard Key Command In Your Emacs > C-c mode-specific-command-prefix M-x mode-specific-command-prefix more info > > It is OK to change key bindings, but changed bindings do not > correspond to what the tutorial says. > --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- > > Pushing the "more info" button in turn gives the following *Help* text: > > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- > Your Emacs customizations override the default binding for this key: > > The default Emacs binding for the key C-c is the command > ‘mode-specific-command-prefix’. However, your customizations have > rebound it to the command ‘(keymap (keymap (right . winner-redo) (left > . winner-undo)) mode-specific-command-prefix)’. > --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- > > The following patch fixes this: Isn't the patch too general? How do we distinguish the case where _all_ of the subcommands were rebound, for example? Also, don't we have some prefixes that for the purposes of the tutorial must not have _any_ of its subcommands rebound? > I don't think this qualifies as urgent enough for inclusion in emacs-27, > but I think the fix is harmless enough if desired. WDYT? The release branch should at this point only accept changes that are really urgent (and documentation fixes). This one isn't, IMO. Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 20 18:19:55 2020 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Apr 2020 22:19:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48624 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jQelf-0008SJ-0k for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 18:19:55 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-f47.google.com ([209.85.128.47]:35643) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jQele-0008S8-2b for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 18:19:54 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-f47.google.com with SMTP id r26so1407695wmh.0 for <40725@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 15:19:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tcd-ie.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=Ey/H2yEcbjf9Sl2FbuSnLTA/PssumYN3sbtTkIa6wrM=; b=fPAW3JXxcyEmRkmgSoOr/XtqTib+qqWFNuYXsiiBp6xwclsGiLmF0gjyck03SBEysj Q6VxfkhGKBlU8SIuCuKbDHc/AviK4M4uT/XdAb6WPN7oreNBxGzqeAiKQujI5l1qvKn5 FjJgrP1PZdSupTlX4heUkx9BjGxU17M5MQG9yGlYeSG4y+F+4HoQs0RzB9C4iLZZ9bdN hRehC/X5lFUtGT3XI47n+W2Uk6H1OODrK7SrXqaHR1IeUjt8n4I3Z4Mavt4BDPTz30j3 1LoAJXYYqhfPguGKpQwgN4HzbvtkBPJAZDuW9618W674x9NA+QHMF9uYHwq9oIoB6AyH TU6w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=Ey/H2yEcbjf9Sl2FbuSnLTA/PssumYN3sbtTkIa6wrM=; b=tXZozCeal87tQOTM0xJe/bvF1qHfA38JYGGTWJo9dJc8sjTdOKv3hbE2GE/BrwY2qZ 5maO86PWWAjQ+2lt9yGHQDMSHaPFTOz38XWsURKvkZykxYZxkj9SCUnW0OU1xswf5N6q xQWEMzsDD+pLHj0swB5xip8roJCi1OxBfQFuTLHwq4jf4yW/lD0Or7K5pu8zRjxB9n5/ J/F8poynPNloZn5igHdBf8v7D/otpqfP6Pz1pELTx00PmMj7HajJLN5rXGlv5iVDAKp4 36noHz3crvWQmlBKG5prh7Zr5rfm/wCWbYDsI3wgY1SZsm+aTEztK3GhjwAh1va8U1xR iGPA== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuZxSSErTQirf74RGX9I14YEv5TOFpV5j8L6fk0BUH7kF0aAaWse 3QfRwnhjUZ2qpLHlhNJ5/GWCtw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypLuaWiKe2rCr63ZZ0Fywm2jIeuXNGJJisgB6OmY3Ivyas3KmFADDaC9qALGKfVF18Q6UG8kVg== X-Received: by 2002:a7b:c213:: with SMTP id x19mr1510671wmi.53.1587421188456; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 15:19:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([2a02:8084:20e2:c380:1f68:7ff5:120d:64e]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k17sm970653wmi.10.2020.04.20.15.19.47 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 20 Apr 2020 15:19:47 -0700 (PDT) From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings References: <87eesj59yq.fsf@tcd.ie> <83wo6agrju.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 23:19:46 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83wo6agrju.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 20 Apr 2020 17:28:21 +0300") Message-ID: <87d0817qbh.fsf@tcd.ie> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: 40725@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: > Isn't the patch too general? I don't think so - apart from avoiding the false warning in the OP, it should be equivalent to the current logic. The function in question, tutorial--find-changed-keys, is only ever passed the defconst tutorial--default-keys as argument. The only elements of tutorial--default-keys whose car satisfies keymapp are: ((ESC-prefix [27]) (Control-X-prefix [24]) (mode-specific-command-prefix [3])) Currently, tutorial--find-changed-keys hard-codes the check for the first two: (if (eq def-fun 'ESC-prefix) (lookup-key global-map [27]) (if (eq def-fun 'Control-X-prefix) (lookup-key global-map [24]) (key-binding key))) Therefore changing this to: (if (keymapp def-fun) (lookup-key global-map key) (key-binding key)) Has the same effect as: (if (eq def-fun 'ESC-prefix) (lookup-key global-map [27]) (if (eq def-fun 'Control-X-prefix) (lookup-key global-map [24]) (if (eq def-fun 'mode-specific-command-prefix) (lookup-key global-map [3]) (key-binding key)))) which I think is correct, since I don't see how C-c is any different to C-x or ESC in the context of this function. In fact, the tutorial doesn't mention C-c at all, but apparently it's included in tutorial--default-keys just because it's an otherwise common prefix. > How do we distinguish the case where _all_ of the subcommands were > rebound, for example? I don't think the current logic tries to handle that either, does it? Besides, mode-specific-command-prefix is an empty keymap by default, the tutorial makes no mention of it, and tutorial--default-keys already tries (and fails, see below) to list all the pertinent keys under the ESC and C-x prefixes. FWIW, tutorial--find-changed-keys rightly detects and warns about the following situation both with and without my patch: (define-key global-map "\C-c" #'ignore) > Also, don't we have some prefixes that for the purposes of the > tutorial must not have _any_ of its subcommands rebound? Hm, I don't know. Did you have any examples in mind? The only prefixes I see used in the tutorial are C-x, C-h, and Meta/ESC. AFAICT if a command-binding pair isn't listed in tutorial--default-keys, then C-h t won't complain about it being rebound. For example, you can rebind C-x k (which IS mentioned in the tutorial) and C-h t won't notice at all. I can open another bug report for extending tutorial--default-keys to detect changes to all default key bindings used in the tutorial, but for now I think the proposed patch fixes the issue at hand without making things worse. -- Basil From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 21 09:40:12 2020 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Apr 2020 13:40:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49231 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jQt8F-0001yS-VY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 09:40:12 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:49182) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jQt89-0001xi-1f for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 09:40:10 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:41375) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jQt83-0005gH-DZ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 09:39:59 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3563 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jQt82-0007ay-SM; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 09:39:59 -0400 Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 16:39:38 +0300 Message-Id: <83pnc1ez51.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: "Basil L. Contovounesios" In-Reply-To: <87d0817qbh.fsf@tcd.ie> (contovob@tcd.ie) Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings References: <87eesj59yq.fsf@tcd.ie> <83wo6agrju.fsf@gnu.org> <87d0817qbh.fsf@tcd.ie> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: 40725@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" > Cc: 40725@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 23:19:46 +0100 > > The function in question, tutorial--find-changed-keys, is only ever > passed the defconst tutorial--default-keys as argument. Yes, and one of the aspects I thought about was whether this change could make use less future-proof, if more keys are added. > In fact, the tutorial doesn't mention C-c at all, but apparently > it's included in tutorial--default-keys just because it's an > otherwise common prefix. AFAIU from the code, the main consideration with C-c is when the user turns on the CUA mode, not because it's a common prefix. So maybe we should narrow the test to only make sure CUA rebindings get caught? > > How do we distinguish the case where _all_ of the subcommands were > > rebound, for example? > > I don't think the current logic tries to handle that either, does it? Well, we are trying to improve the current logic, aren't we? > > Also, don't we have some prefixes that for the purposes of the > > tutorial must not have _any_ of its subcommands rebound? > > Hm, I don't know. Did you have any examples in mind? The only prefixes > I see used in the tutorial are C-x, C-h, and Meta/ESC. > > AFAICT if a command-binding pair isn't listed in tutorial--default-keys, > then C-h t won't complain about it being rebound. For example, you can > rebind C-x k (which IS mentioned in the tutorial) and C-h t won't notice > at all. So maybe we should add that, to make the test more thorough? > I can open another bug report for extending tutorial--default-keys to > detect changes to all default key bindings used in the tutorial, but for > now I think the proposed patch fixes the issue at hand without making > things worse. I just want to make sure we don't do anything that could cause subtle problems. Bugs while reading the tutorial are the worst kind, for obvious reasons. Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Apr 22 18:27:04 2020 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Apr 2020 22:27:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53546 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jRNpf-00026B-Ov for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 18:27:04 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-f46.google.com ([209.85.221.46]:37175) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jRNpd-00025h-Ul for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 18:27:02 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-f46.google.com with SMTP id k1so4536274wrx.4 for <40725@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 15:27:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tcd-ie.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=52OUxLzZwRkWQtphh9cAQBJ08x+KEWnnl43h6J8kc0U=; b=o9uIszC1sgXXP6jp+Xh31cXnXwlpwrT/a0dvgbwLlSafUFdcMgr7GeHeyAMBCKPevD jtIOkMPxJDVarPynmIlj69/x7/chVxhML6QQBn9xWg02c71+W/SBIhpeMCRT/COeD15t g708ks3yA0igsg//t0gAd7imh7PrHgCYm59OQLfZuVC2PpDUonT1zzensf1ZyFpPYva4 PDmh8ktHoDyT8tlAGif9zapd3veSffYSdws4Cws/Y4mEWJETdGTwqJrZjbyXszZfFjl9 nPw863ecKHl7+5pP8ACtfbLd9tanK1A1JLh3CMdUUlLfvoR40k7s5AWkfKb8oLZnm27U +HOg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=52OUxLzZwRkWQtphh9cAQBJ08x+KEWnnl43h6J8kc0U=; b=ReYdGolmvtFm4xllLeF3zyvp15oENXHIOfucFeYdJlh+ifbbYCmAGq0nxvFRSU5Wlo 2HRZ6vAphaUE7nCOVwZAdufJPObRlp9vtVAhchkxCJTCeK8EZa0/fBHgCI+LVOYcpZPJ GHjmfsHn6uooJu5DwMRvg8ciWJEwsuwL1ftUsGGhwVXHsUFnVAGMHOryBw3f8RFwzWKT 6P1WPE3iYv8qghP9Hyx09gaRWtz5pp1rSy1f3Frq+56NrS9n63ROxHttG1C2vjDqNzQg ma4xo9aAjHngi5jIUEuOs2BZYIQ72sojKyAqf0eFqUAH5Nj7FHy1psVPGBE66/vYMy9A TStw== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuYsMVfqTANLojuQEbre2p7Q5RNjilKC/2/fqCewMzxSTL6yAQLH Kgy5xo+AcdvmJg1fmAXolsctvtsLNmM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypKaaq/bLfvz73QnRQ4Lq6Gk8G7fLgtKiBdxgB7l7BnJSDvGj7A5lCBt261cmFOSMTMMM6EgkQ== X-Received: by 2002:adf:f750:: with SMTP id z16mr1401937wrp.115.1587594415843; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 15:26:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([2a02:8084:20e2:c380:92bd:1bfd:38fc:fae2]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q143sm989732wme.31.2020.04.22.15.26.54 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 22 Apr 2020 15:26:55 -0700 (PDT) From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings References: <87eesj59yq.fsf@tcd.ie> <83wo6agrju.fsf@gnu.org> <87d0817qbh.fsf@tcd.ie> <83pnc1ez51.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 23:26:53 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83pnc1ez51.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 21 Apr 2020 16:39:38 +0300") Message-ID: <875zdrgnrm.fsf@tcd.ie> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: 40725@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" >> Cc: 40725@debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 23:19:46 +0100 >> >> The function in question, tutorial--find-changed-keys, is only ever >> passed the defconst tutorial--default-keys as argument. > > Yes, and one of the aspects I thought about was whether this change > could make use less future-proof, if more keys are added. I don't think the proposed patch makes the code any less future-proof, but then my crystal ball isn't the best, and tutorial.el could use some love regardless, as this bug has shown. >> In fact, the tutorial doesn't mention C-c at all, but apparently >> it's included in tutorial--default-keys just because it's an >> otherwise common prefix. > > AFAIU from the code, the main consideration with C-c is when the user > turns on the CUA mode, not because it's a common prefix. So maybe we > should narrow the test to only make sure CUA rebindings get caught? Good point. I hadn't thought of that and I'll look into it. >> > How do we distinguish the case where _all_ of the subcommands were >> > rebound, for example? >> >> I don't think the current logic tries to handle that either, does it? > > Well, we are trying to improve the current logic, aren't we? You drive a hard bargain. ;) I thought I'd suggest the current small patch before attacking tutorial.el wholesale, but I can do both in one go after the end of April when I'll have more free time. While we're on the topic of improving the manual - it's on my todo to eventually help with a Greek and possibly even Hungarian translation. Is there anything more to it than posting a patch to bug-gnu-emacs/emacs-devel for review, such as getting a GNU translation team involved or anything like that? >> > Also, don't we have some prefixes that for the purposes of the >> > tutorial must not have _any_ of its subcommands rebound? >> >> Hm, I don't know. Did you have any examples in mind? The only prefixes >> I see used in the tutorial are C-x, C-h, and Meta/ESC. >> >> AFAICT if a command-binding pair isn't listed in tutorial--default-keys, >> then C-h t won't complain about it being rebound. For example, you can >> rebind C-x k (which IS mentioned in the tutorial) and C-h t won't notice >> at all. > > So maybe we should add that, to make the test more thorough? Sure. >> I can open another bug report for extending tutorial--default-keys to >> detect changes to all default key bindings used in the tutorial, but for >> now I think the proposed patch fixes the issue at hand without making >> things worse. > > I just want to make sure we don't do anything that could cause subtle > problems. Bugs while reading the tutorial are the worst kind, for > obvious reasons. Agreed. -- Basil From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Apr 23 10:34:23 2020 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Apr 2020 14:34:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55642 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jRcvm-0007o1-Sg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 10:34:23 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:58056) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jRcvl-0007no-Ft for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 10:34:21 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:47807) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jRcvf-0007qZ-Pb; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 10:34:15 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3794 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jRcve-0001vf-TR; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 10:34:15 -0400 Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 17:33:59 +0300 Message-Id: <83zhb2cluw.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: "Basil L. Contovounesios" In-Reply-To: <875zdrgnrm.fsf@tcd.ie> (contovob@tcd.ie) Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings References: <87eesj59yq.fsf@tcd.ie> <83wo6agrju.fsf@gnu.org> <87d0817qbh.fsf@tcd.ie> <83pnc1ez51.fsf@gnu.org> <875zdrgnrm.fsf@tcd.ie> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: 40725@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" > Cc: 40725@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 23:26:53 +0100 > > > AFAIU from the code, the main consideration with C-c is when the user > > turns on the CUA mode, not because it's a common prefix. So maybe we > > should narrow the test to only make sure CUA rebindings get caught? > > Good point. I hadn't thought of that and I'll look into it. Thanks. > >> > How do we distinguish the case where _all_ of the subcommands were > >> > rebound, for example? > >> > >> I don't think the current logic tries to handle that either, does it? > > > > Well, we are trying to improve the current logic, aren't we? > > You drive a hard bargain. ;) I thought I'd suggest the current small > patch before attacking tutorial.el wholesale, but I can do both in one > go after the end of April when I'll have more free time. It's fine to do it piecemeal. But if you are not sure you will get to that soon, perhaps leave some FIXME somewhere, so that we don't forget. > While we're on the topic of improving the manual - it's on my todo to > eventually help with a Greek and possibly even Hungarian translation. You mean the tutorial, right? > Is there anything more to it than posting a patch to > bug-gnu-emacs/emacs-devel for review, such as getting a GNU translation > team involved or anything like that? No, I think posting it and letting people comment is good enough. Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Apr 23 18:21:31 2020 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Apr 2020 22:21:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55960 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jRkDr-0002O0-IR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 18:21:31 -0400 Received: from relay4-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.196]:37023) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jRkDp-0002Nm-MF for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 18:21:30 -0400 X-Originating-IP: 91.129.106.11 Received: from mail.gandi.net (m91-129-106-11.cust.tele2.ee [91.129.106.11]) (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by relay4-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E93ADE000C; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 22:21:22 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: "Basil L. Contovounesios" Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <87eesj59yq.fsf@tcd.ie> <83wo6agrju.fsf@gnu.org> <87d0817qbh.fsf@tcd.ie> <83pnc1ez51.fsf@gnu.org> <875zdrgnrm.fsf@tcd.ie> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 00:52:52 +0300 In-Reply-To: <875zdrgnrm.fsf@tcd.ie> (Basil L. Contovounesios's message of "Wed, 22 Apr 2020 23:26:53 +0100") Message-ID: <87368tna2z.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 40725@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > While we're on the topic of improving the manual - it's on my todo to > eventually help with a Greek and possibly even Hungarian translation. The problem is that a Greek tutorial when added to a file with the .el extension in etc/tutorials/TUTORIAL.el will be visited in Emacs Lisp mode. Out of curiosity, I checked other tutorials, and indeed the problem exists: the Swedish tutorial etc/tutorials/TUTORIAL.sv is visited in Verilog mode. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 24 02:55:57 2020 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2020 06:55:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56297 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jRsFg-0000zA-Tu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 02:55:57 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:48934) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jRsFf-0000yw-4t for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 02:55:55 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:37138) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jRsFZ-0001xF-9Y; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 02:55:49 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3674 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jRsFU-00057l-6Y; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 02:55:47 -0400 Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 09:55:30 +0300 Message-Id: <83pnbxbcf1.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Juri Linkov In-Reply-To: <87368tna2z.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Fri, 24 Apr 2020 00:52:52 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings References: <87eesj59yq.fsf@tcd.ie> <83wo6agrju.fsf@gnu.org> <87d0817qbh.fsf@tcd.ie> <83pnc1ez51.fsf@gnu.org> <875zdrgnrm.fsf@tcd.ie> <87368tna2z.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: contovob@tcd.ie, 40725@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: Juri Linkov > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 40725@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 00:52:52 +0300 > > The problem is that a Greek tutorial when added to a file with the .el > extension in etc/tutorials/TUTORIAL.el will be visited in Emacs Lisp mode. > > Out of curiosity, I checked other tutorials, and indeed the problem exists: > the Swedish tutorial etc/tutorials/TUTORIAL.sv is visited in Verilog mode. File-local variables should be able to fix that, don't they? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 24 04:46:24 2020 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2020 08:46:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56410 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jRtya-0003kH-0W for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 04:46:24 -0400 Received: from mail153c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.10.163]:44940 helo=mail50c50.megamailservers.eu) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jRtyX-0003k5-Ke for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 04:46:22 -0400 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1587717979; bh=+f+wtxZlShT93Nwq1ddmmAldDKj3O8mcgOHibdl+TEw=; h=From:Subject:Date:Cc:To:From; b=EUjJ6eNCdsRzCLZGyTqGCW0QrFd4vITc8YMQm+ndwf5qQCTJO9hI2ozXMGfg4tQrT LertDWG8qExZufpo5IzrPdMvIOCV6sXr/s2SrRa474ejjPtXhkm4zbiFBuN8WRgmWq 4ZUyXs643Fbit3M3U8lweq2uo37OW431o8cd9VOg= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from stanniol.lan (c-4e4ae655.032-75-73746f71.bbcust.telenor.se [85.230.74.78]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail50c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 03O8kFF1020582; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 08:46:18 +0000 From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.14\)) Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings Message-Id: <187E7752-27CA-4304-8BBB-695B9588DEC2@acm.org> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 10:46:15 +0200 To: Eli Zaretskii , Juri Linkov , "Basil L. Contovounesios" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.14) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A782F20.5EA2A6FC.0047, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-CSC: 0 X-CHA: v=2.3 cv=NoevjPVJ c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=klNLuyVZdLUgl+K5Uafb2A==:117 a=klNLuyVZdLUgl+K5Uafb2A==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=M51BFTxLslgA:10 a=qeFP4gV_oIE3LJ7dvvwA:9 a=7Zwj6sZBwVKJAoWSPKxL6X1jA+E=:19 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: >> Out of curiosity, I checked other tutorials, and indeed the problem exists: >> the Swedish tutorial etc/tutorials/TUTORIAL.sv is visited in Verilog mode. > > File-local variables should be able to [...] Content analysis details: (1.2 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: megamailservers.eu] 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.3 KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS Relay HELO differs from its IP's reverse DNS X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: 40725@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) >> Out of curiosity, I checked other tutorials, and indeed the problem = exists: >> the Swedish tutorial etc/tutorials/TUTORIAL.sv is visited in Verilog = mode.=20 >=20 > File-local variables should be able to fix that, don't they? What about renaming them all to TUTORIALS-xx instead? Would that = inconvenience anyone? I'm frequently scanning all .el files in the Emacs tree with various = tools, and having ones that don't contain Elisp code would make the file = selection pattern awkward and ad-hoc. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 24 06:21:19 2020 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2020 10:21:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56468 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jRvSR-0001vF-C1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 06:21:19 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:54150) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jRvSO-0001ur-S9 for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 06:21:18 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:44668) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jRvSH-0007oT-5T; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 06:21:10 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4770 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jRvSG-0003on-JL; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 06:21:09 -0400 Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 13:20:54 +0300 Message-Id: <83d07xb2wp.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <187E7752-27CA-4304-8BBB-695B9588DEC2@acm.org> (message from Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= on Fri, 24 Apr 2020 10:46:15 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings References: <187E7752-27CA-4304-8BBB-695B9588DEC2@acm.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: contovob@tcd.ie, 40725@debbugs.gnu.org, juri@linkov.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: Mattias Engdegård > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 10:46:15 +0200 > Cc: 40725@debbugs.gnu.org > > >> Out of curiosity, I checked other tutorials, and indeed the problem exists: > >> the Swedish tutorial etc/tutorials/TUTORIAL.sv is visited in Verilog mode. > > > > File-local variables should be able to fix that, don't they? > > What about renaming them all to TUTORIALS-xx instead? Would that inconvenience anyone? I don't think it will inconvenient someone, but renaming files causes complications in VCS history forensics, so I'd prefer to avoid renaming as much as possible. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 24 06:41:24 2020 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2020 10:41:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56504 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jRvls-0002VX-Ez for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 06:41:24 -0400 Received: from mail1464c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.14.64]:47656 helo=mail268c50.megamailservers.eu) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jRvlr-0002VL-4H for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 06:41:24 -0400 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1587724876; bh=3f4YZtAWBOqo9xN0iCYSiDCc82sYP3AlBI3B1/Nz6Qk=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=Y4hy04VgEXgiaVnoXhmGRxpRkCXuIOmFeui6Lp4Nl6HYzdJABW2lt3K+shjIr64G6 n6Qs7IxOjGOlVMlDiUhPyu9eTDXHMbIGCo4Dnfsm+6QNlzBO7xk1QwDvFHl6d5Xyi8 +CydOOs6SNzBufJjpPI2seNlQoD9ehQe4f4tUSCI= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from stanniol.lan (c-4e4ae655.032-75-73746f71.bbcust.telenor.se [85.230.74.78]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail268c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 03OAf4gx000622; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 10:41:11 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.14\)) Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <83d07xb2wp.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 12:41:03 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <569DDA5E-28F0-4329-86B2-C9AE3AC4427F@acm.org> References: <187E7752-27CA-4304-8BBB-695B9588DEC2@acm.org> <83d07xb2wp.fsf@gnu.org> To: Eli Zaretskii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.14) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A782F27.5EA2C229.000D, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-CSC: 0 X-CHA: v=2.3 cv=BZ+mLYl2 c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=klNLuyVZdLUgl+K5Uafb2A==:117 a=klNLuyVZdLUgl+K5Uafb2A==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=M51BFTxLslgA:10 a=mDV3o1hIAAAA:8 a=svj0NAvvCr3Lwne7mrEA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=_FVE-zBwftR9WsbkzFJk:22 X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: 24 apr. 2020 kl. 12.20 skrev Eli Zaretskii : > I don't think it will inconvenient someone, but renaming files causes > complications in VCS history forensics, so I'd prefer to avoid > renaming as much as possible. Content analysis details: (1.2 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: gnu.org] 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.3 KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS Relay HELO differs from its IP's reverse DNS X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: contovob@tcd.ie, 40725@debbugs.gnu.org, juri@linkov.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) 24 apr. 2020 kl. 12.20 skrev Eli Zaretskii : > I don't think it will inconvenient someone, but renaming files causes > complications in VCS history forensics, so I'd prefer to avoid > renaming as much as possible. Since there is a clear benefit from avoiding file names that clash with = well-established conventions, version control is a very minor concern = and we should not be held hostage by it. Git has a lot less trouble with = renames than earlier systems, and here we are talking about straight = renames (not file splits), thus there is a one-to-one correspondence. = Finally, these files are not changed at great frequency. Would you prefer the rename to be done on master, or in emacs-27 (since = the bug was reported against that version)? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 24 07:22:10 2020 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2020 11:22:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56572 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jRwPK-0003bo-8N for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 07:22:10 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:60044) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jRwPJ-0003bZ-AY for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 07:22:09 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:48859) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jRwPD-0001Jg-5k; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 07:22:03 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4490 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jRwPC-0004DR-GW; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 07:22:02 -0400 Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 14:21:50 +0300 Message-Id: <831rodb035.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <569DDA5E-28F0-4329-86B2-C9AE3AC4427F@acm.org> (message from Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= on Fri, 24 Apr 2020 12:41:03 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings References: <187E7752-27CA-4304-8BBB-695B9588DEC2@acm.org> <83d07xb2wp.fsf@gnu.org> <569DDA5E-28F0-4329-86B2-C9AE3AC4427F@acm.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: contovob@tcd.ie, 40725@debbugs.gnu.org, juri@linkov.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: Mattias Engdegård > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 12:41:03 +0200 > Cc: juri@linkov.net, contovob@tcd.ie, 40725@debbugs.gnu.org > > 24 apr. 2020 kl. 12.20 skrev Eli Zaretskii : > > > I don't think it will inconvenient someone, but renaming files causes > > complications in VCS history forensics, so I'd prefer to avoid > > renaming as much as possible. > > Since there is a clear benefit from avoiding file names that clash with well-established conventions, version control is a very minor concern and we should not be held hostage by it. Git has a lot less trouble with renames than earlier systems, and here we are talking about straight renames (not file splits), thus there is a one-to-one correspondence. Finally, these files are not changed at great frequency. > > Would you prefer the rename to be done on master, or in emacs-27 (since the bug was reported against that version)? Like I said: I would prefer not to rename files at all, if we can solve the mode issue in some other way. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 24 07:36:08 2020 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2020 11:36:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56593 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jRwcq-0006BK-A1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 07:36:08 -0400 Received: from mail212c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.10.222]:33254 helo=mail194c50.megamailservers.eu) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jRwck-0006AT-Os for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 07:36:06 -0400 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1587728155; bh=l8X1+7nSvgbzJM/yBnmeas8TTwVDLCjAuCcX9i8QJIg=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=j2Uay0MkMeLqjqF+GhZ/vlseaO+qkVcamqwp9jFRifc6vQYfZ4crivPHLE9WRHnk0 WmrEHxwT5CK66eRcz/Z4cqTTkqVoTv0cRaNl+5EqprkFi0SYexaIijGOBcajuRwnXC Bfo4DUwpyI2LCmZY1hRVbtGsUJI2PXQSQEyotckM= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from stanniol.lan (c-4e4ae655.032-75-73746f71.bbcust.telenor.se [85.230.74.78]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail194c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 03OBZr9k011619; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 11:35:54 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.14\)) Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <831rodb035.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 13:35:52 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <37969D02-FD67-4563-BD01-A2F483999D79@acm.org> References: <187E7752-27CA-4304-8BBB-695B9588DEC2@acm.org> <83d07xb2wp.fsf@gnu.org> <569DDA5E-28F0-4329-86B2-C9AE3AC4427F@acm.org> <831rodb035.fsf@gnu.org> To: Eli Zaretskii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.14) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A782F1B.5EA2CEDF.001B, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-CSC: 0 X-CHA: v=2.3 cv=KsozJleN c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=klNLuyVZdLUgl+K5Uafb2A==:117 a=klNLuyVZdLUgl+K5Uafb2A==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=M51BFTxLslgA:10 a=mDV3o1hIAAAA:8 a=vg5SEvhVuOLIav_ncrYA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=_FVE-zBwftR9WsbkzFJk:22 X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: contovob@tcd.ie, 40725@debbugs.gnu.org, juri@linkov.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) 24 apr. 2020 kl. 13.21 skrev Eli Zaretskii : > Like I said: I would prefer not to rename files at all, if we can > solve the mode issue in some other way. I agree, let's not rename files without a good reason. Here we have = multiple good reasons. The file names cause more inconvenience than just the mode problem. Git = handles renames gracefully. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 24 08:14:17 2020 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2020 12:14:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56627 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jRxDl-0007Bj-0H for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 08:14:17 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:36638) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jRxDj-0007BT-HN for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 08:14:15 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:52560) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jRxDc-0000q3-8i; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 08:14:08 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4033 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jRxDY-0001r1-4s; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 08:14:07 -0400 Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 15:13:50 +0300 Message-Id: <83v9lp9j41.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <37969D02-FD67-4563-BD01-A2F483999D79@acm.org> (message from Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= on Fri, 24 Apr 2020 13:35:52 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings References: <187E7752-27CA-4304-8BBB-695B9588DEC2@acm.org> <83d07xb2wp.fsf@gnu.org> <569DDA5E-28F0-4329-86B2-C9AE3AC4427F@acm.org> <831rodb035.fsf@gnu.org> <37969D02-FD67-4563-BD01-A2F483999D79@acm.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: contovob@tcd.ie, 40725@debbugs.gnu.org, juri@linkov.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: Mattias Engdegård > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 13:35:52 +0200 > Cc: juri@linkov.net, contovob@tcd.ie, 40725@debbugs.gnu.org > > 24 apr. 2020 kl. 13.21 skrev Eli Zaretskii : > > > Like I said: I would prefer not to rename files at all, if we can > > solve the mode issue in some other way. > > I agree, let's not rename files without a good reason. Here we have multiple good reasons. I didn't say "a good reason", I said "if we can solve the issue in some other way". > The file names cause more inconvenience than just the mode problem. What problems are those? You mentioned grepping the files, which can be easily handled by excluding the tutorials directory from the search. Are there any other problems we should consider? > Git handles renames gracefully. "Gracefully" is in the eyes of the beholder. It's true the support for renames improved in the recent years, but there are still commands that either fails or need special invocation methods to work across renames. So it's still a source of inconvenience and occasional failure or mistaken conclusions, and I'd like to avoid that if possible. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 24 08:47:57 2020 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2020 12:47:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56657 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jRxkK-00082f-Pp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 08:47:57 -0400 Received: from mail1448c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.14.48]:57906 helo=mail265c50.megamailservers.eu) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jRxkI-00082M-F2 for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 08:47:55 -0400 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1587732467; bh=oHkpLJxPqLGG3hy4AJ/jAijM0thmZ8A1nVQk82eQBgg=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=M/hkSvYy2NHETA6E4vOHDCCHpYPzYTCAE11mQNbu07FSWb33gozFUSkv9MDomKdiA nqtJT5MCz/JnVEvzXWXvCj7WPx3XlLBMxXiFGHwW+btHpOGpH2QGS6Q/X0BJ7hLc6n y5WxzIOSIfKGku0vr+fIR2hAlqxo4VZokNM63G2w= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from stanniol.lan (c-4e4ae655.032-75-73746f71.bbcust.telenor.se [85.230.74.78]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail265c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 03OCliHc010167; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 12:47:46 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.14\)) Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <83v9lp9j41.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 14:47:44 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <654FEBD4-BA27-4060-9CFD-0CF67F6000BB@acm.org> References: <187E7752-27CA-4304-8BBB-695B9588DEC2@acm.org> <83d07xb2wp.fsf@gnu.org> <569DDA5E-28F0-4329-86B2-C9AE3AC4427F@acm.org> <831rodb035.fsf@gnu.org> <37969D02-FD67-4563-BD01-A2F483999D79@acm.org> <83v9lp9j41.fsf@gnu.org> To: Eli Zaretskii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.14) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A782F20.5EA2DF93.00BA, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-CSC: 0 X-CHA: v=2.3 cv=D5w51cZj c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=klNLuyVZdLUgl+K5Uafb2A==:117 a=klNLuyVZdLUgl+K5Uafb2A==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=M51BFTxLslgA:10 a=mDV3o1hIAAAA:8 a=e4Sa9CLBgLlLa6zu1uoA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=_FVE-zBwftR9WsbkzFJk:22 X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: 24 apr. 2020 kl. 14.13 skrev Eli Zaretskii : > I didn't say "a good reason", I said "if we can solve the issue in > some other way". Why does renaming files, a quite uncomplicated operation, have to be the last resort? Content analysis details: (1.2 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: gnu.org] 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.3 KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS Relay HELO differs from its IP's reverse DNS X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: contovob@tcd.ie, 40725@debbugs.gnu.org, juri@linkov.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) 24 apr. 2020 kl. 14.13 skrev Eli Zaretskii : > I didn't say "a good reason", I said "if we can solve the issue in > some other way". Why does renaming files, a quite uncomplicated operation, have to be the = last resort? >> The file names cause more inconvenience than just the mode problem. >=20 > What problems are those? You mentioned grepping the files, which can > be easily handled by excluding the tutorials directory from the > search. Are there any other problems we should consider? I didn't mention grepping (scanning files can be done in multiple ways), = but why would I or anyone else need to perform such contortions every = time to compensate for a problem that is so easily solved once and for = all by simply giving the files better names? >> Git handles renames gracefully. >=20 > "Gracefully" is in the eyes of the beholder. It's true the support > for renames improved in the recent years, but there are still commands > that either fails or need special invocation methods to work across > renames. So it's still a source of inconvenience and occasional > failure or mistaken conclusions, and I'd like to avoid that if > possible. You are making a mountain out of a molehill. It's not going to be a = problem; this is not CVS. Let's not invent difficulties. Nowadays, the bar for renaming files is much lower, and there is no = reason whatsoever to shy away from it because of bad experiences in the = past with other version control systems. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 24 09:32:57 2020 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2020 13:32:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56667 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jRyRt-0000fe-Au for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 09:32:57 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:58428) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jRyRr-0000fR-F1 for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 09:32:55 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:54695) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jRyRk-0001OD-Hu; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 09:32:48 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1054 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jRyRi-0007wa-MW; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 09:32:47 -0400 Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 16:32:32 +0300 Message-Id: <83pnbx9fgv.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <654FEBD4-BA27-4060-9CFD-0CF67F6000BB@acm.org> (message from Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= on Fri, 24 Apr 2020 14:47:44 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings References: <187E7752-27CA-4304-8BBB-695B9588DEC2@acm.org> <83d07xb2wp.fsf@gnu.org> <569DDA5E-28F0-4329-86B2-C9AE3AC4427F@acm.org> <831rodb035.fsf@gnu.org> <37969D02-FD67-4563-BD01-A2F483999D79@acm.org> <83v9lp9j41.fsf@gnu.org> <654FEBD4-BA27-4060-9CFD-0CF67F6000BB@acm.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: contovob@tcd.ie, 40725@debbugs.gnu.org, juri@linkov.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: Mattias Engdegård > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 14:47:44 +0200 > Cc: juri@linkov.net, contovob@tcd.ie, 40725@debbugs.gnu.org > > 24 apr. 2020 kl. 14.13 skrev Eli Zaretskii : > > > I didn't say "a good reason", I said "if we can solve the issue in > > some other way". > > Why does renaming files, a quite uncomplicated operation, have to be the last resort? I thought I explained why. > > What problems are those? You mentioned grepping the files, which can > > be easily handled by excluding the tutorials directory from the > > search. Are there any other problems we should consider? > > I didn't mention grepping (scanning files can be done in multiple ways), but why would I or anyone else need to perform such contortions every time to compensate for a problem that is so easily solved once and for all by simply giving the files better names? Because renaming comes with a price I'd rather not pay. > > "Gracefully" is in the eyes of the beholder. It's true the support > > for renames improved in the recent years, but there are still commands > > that either fails or need special invocation methods to work across > > renames. So it's still a source of inconvenience and occasional > > failure or mistaken conclusions, and I'd like to avoid that if > > possible. > > You are making a mountain out of a molehill. It isn't a molehill for me. I need to search VCS history quite a lot. > It's not going to be a problem; this is not CVS. Let's not invent difficulties. I'm not inventing anything, the problems are real. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 24 11:38:40 2020 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2020 15:38:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57751 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jS0PX-00063T-SH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 11:38:40 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-f43.google.com ([209.85.128.43]:35652) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jS0PW-00063H-AF for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 11:38:38 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-f43.google.com with SMTP id r26so11326728wmh.0 for <40725@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 08:38:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=z1wxaDJpdNSSyY3M2ww2NkXvqu4qbLVpedDqOPa++aQ=; b=GMM1mpuhnr6v4DKFl8OmaXl7Tm4tjubk1QTMbF+48hX9ddoMPyxxsuWQCM8MVGqKgs z4aTddk8VawHnEhN7iFNgF6KsGWIfgAcFZY9fcGXSntgfFvtAwTVgGy0w0NArrAR1/hi 7JrOBvp+AMwzNnX4c36kw78iqigHtpCnA0BXPwYF0TCxXu5lyJqO9BiMTwey71oQrztI utzIqpR7JZWP0GNIQxaZXUOpf8L9dstaAPTC/o23TZwGCvxKW+Oo692V1tF2ZBRGTPFF ChVjN2cWh7LPJ2MunASABgEZZpfTk9ETgoVQqlkB8wJglLZib3kb3cLcaWXForEFPFfc +JQA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=z1wxaDJpdNSSyY3M2ww2NkXvqu4qbLVpedDqOPa++aQ=; b=eo3YP6a+LWdABF90/OuZfAfyPgZK2OK/dI5c+Hc3HRPMxNSptdbbKJF0cbsai+MmGQ /o8y18gSKCeNdI561mDSWYDUjAX9S2V6pLuyJXYyhjwf0KQak+AQE9TyRIYLcViUXqsb wJWufonlcWa6ESiUPLFAGU/yw2WMvTJ2+ctAXfHWXwoVA6t3mUBcB76galLEJZ4nz2oO eRnxVFe7c7pLN3vmSbaqo6YGqv1/Jr94JQZSPYp0Ett/R5qF6EKPlph9vlEx88JmXSip ejd7LZSPQ7sciPeddhfj+S/ycZyZtWYylX4cAP1JPEY4qE7JCd7erB0VC3OETb29gTVZ yaCA== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuaeR4RngkiH4+E1f+h43Lsx6+E77h2mwDQ/u/Zg2GwquE+SE5M2 eIaHLIZhQjFQSsjdnxWpAnU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypLaCR7fHWd+XpsixMGZc8BB419f75HdQ3HpLBEc/nzTSGCQLfPpiDAJrjvfgnkhMXyff+JaxQ== X-Received: by 2002:a7b:c642:: with SMTP id q2mr11190703wmk.41.1587742712447; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 08:38:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.2] ([66.205.73.129]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id n9sm8763370wrx.61.2020.04.24.08.38.30 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 24 Apr 2020 08:38:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings To: =?UTF-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=c3=a5rd?= , Eli Zaretskii References: <187E7752-27CA-4304-8BBB-695B9588DEC2@acm.org> <83d07xb2wp.fsf@gnu.org> <569DDA5E-28F0-4329-86B2-C9AE3AC4427F@acm.org> <831rodb035.fsf@gnu.org> <37969D02-FD67-4563-BD01-A2F483999D79@acm.org> From: Dmitry Gutov Message-ID: <5d826e4e-bcaf-6d08-7bc9-5c0875db2dfb@yandex.ru> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 18:38:29 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.4.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <37969D02-FD67-4563-BD01-A2F483999D79@acm.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: contovob@tcd.ie, 40725@debbugs.gnu.org, juri@linkov.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) On 24.04.2020 14:35, Mattias Engdegård wrote: > The file names cause more inconvenience than just the mode problem. Git handles renames gracefully. VC, less so. Here's a related bug report: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=39044 It's not insurmountable, of course (I expect we'll fix it for Emacs 28). But let's not ignore the problems either. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 24 11:51:45 2020 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2020 15:51:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57771 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jS0cD-0006Mv-C3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 11:51:45 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:59372) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jS0cC-0006Mh-0x for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 11:51:44 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:60011) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jS0c6-0002wN-0C; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 11:51:38 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1689 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jS0c4-0001eq-FA; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 11:51:37 -0400 Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 18:51:22 +0300 Message-Id: <83imhoanlx.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Dmitry Gutov In-Reply-To: <5d826e4e-bcaf-6d08-7bc9-5c0875db2dfb@yandex.ru> (message from Dmitry Gutov on Fri, 24 Apr 2020 18:38:29 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings References: <187E7752-27CA-4304-8BBB-695B9588DEC2@acm.org> <83d07xb2wp.fsf@gnu.org> <569DDA5E-28F0-4329-86B2-C9AE3AC4427F@acm.org> <831rodb035.fsf@gnu.org> <37969D02-FD67-4563-BD01-A2F483999D79@acm.org> <5d826e4e-bcaf-6d08-7bc9-5c0875db2dfb@yandex.ru> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: contovob@tcd.ie, mattiase@acm.org, 40725@debbugs.gnu.org, juri@linkov.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > Cc: contovob@tcd.ie, 40725@debbugs.gnu.org, juri@linkov.net > From: Dmitry Gutov > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 18:38:29 +0300 > > https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=39044 > > It's not insurmountable, of course (I expect we'll fix it for Emacs 28). > But let's not ignore the problems either. The problems aren't insurmountable, sure. They just add complications. In most cases, if you are aware a rename was made, you can tweak the VCS commands to handle that. But (a) you need to be aware, and that is not always obvious; and (b) how to tweak the commands is also not always obvious. If you fail to notice and/or fail to tweak the command as required, you might very well see incorrect information and make the wrong decisions. It happened to me several times, so I'd rather we avoided that if possible. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 24 12:01:27 2020 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2020 16:01:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57791 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jS0la-0006dE-Hh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 12:01:26 -0400 Received: from mail1441c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.14.41]:52452 helo=mail264c50.megamailservers.eu) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jS0lY-0006cr-WA for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 12:01:25 -0400 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1587744077; bh=SUVpCyupuBOLDuOS/JVx7zGRuOIlWP6OMUL2JzTZxFo=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=lYb8MK//C+xRYkYaPdFWpHSm+XxB+nYIQ71YeBDV7dM2XkaAR8x/Cns3xYnpk3YS3 GIs8gw4fuw2FYv+u8pYWvXSn2moEK+pW2PwJcg6zeaeDQNBKDrgxoqTxmdZXNiExcN z7BQO/danvrHVU7dnUVnm1scDK80nwYfpd4e0TgM= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from stanniol.lan (c-4e4ae655.032-75-73746f71.bbcust.telenor.se [85.230.74.78]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail264c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 03OG1Eku030325; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 16:01:16 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.14\)) Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <83pnbx9fgv.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 18:01:14 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <7A86126D-96EA-4447-AA19-A8BE8877AC3B@acm.org> References: <187E7752-27CA-4304-8BBB-695B9588DEC2@acm.org> <83d07xb2wp.fsf@gnu.org> <569DDA5E-28F0-4329-86B2-C9AE3AC4427F@acm.org> <831rodb035.fsf@gnu.org> <37969D02-FD67-4563-BD01-A2F483999D79@acm.org> <83v9lp9j41.fsf@gnu.org> <654FEBD4-BA27-4060-9CFD-0CF67F6000BB@acm.org> <83pnbx9fgv.fsf@gnu.org> To: Eli Zaretskii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.14) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A782F26.5EA30D16.009B, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-CSC: 0 X-CHA: v=2.3 cv=PPNxBsiC c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=klNLuyVZdLUgl+K5Uafb2A==:117 a=klNLuyVZdLUgl+K5Uafb2A==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=M51BFTxLslgA:10 a=mDV3o1hIAAAA:8 a=9z2r9xZLKpRltcwey2UA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=ncZ9vwaUYPMA:10 a=_FVE-zBwftR9WsbkzFJk:22 X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: 24 apr. 2020 kl. 15.32 skrev Eli Zaretskii : > I thought I explained why. You didn't, but now you have. Thank you Eli, I understand perfectly. Content analysis details: (1.2 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: gnu.org] 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.3 KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS Relay HELO differs from its IP's reverse DNS X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: contovob@tcd.ie, 40725@debbugs.gnu.org, juri@linkov.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) 24 apr. 2020 kl. 15.32 skrev Eli Zaretskii : > I thought I explained why. You didn't, but now you have. Thank you Eli, I understand perfectly. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 24 15:48:11 2020 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2020 19:48:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57999 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jS4J1-0005mI-J0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 15:48:11 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-f47.google.com ([209.85.128.47]:54046) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jS4Iz-0005m4-MS for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 15:48:10 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-f47.google.com with SMTP id k12so3392732wmj.3 for <40725@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 12:48:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=kCKi/XyMvUJ6JLIolW3PZ5HFrTeHr9Ecgqt9r90ov5g=; b=dlWkBpACwSpl2d8AB1kim7pjPvv8PLTjik1yscVcbqhhV9MrgKLauRd33DyZuBBafA lZPEPtXzT4Jj3aexss8xzWJDevfssAQXSslKwWpItsOicMhcgfcKtQLm7vM7szgqc6rP WvYhOBG4KVn32UEE+ldZLnq/LrMhUfxgQdVxN5E0tv6s0RFnWOYIPnPv5d6pgvXpoZoi YFn3PVjloISjUiDv8dxI86dlSwI9lbeb0GWrG1MtL3yk02iJ7ptN1gYA/pnux3zJjA5C VWEiMBhLwepMV0BB22ViufGB+N1ADyREDuPCHyhx5khTwLEhinpM6kKoziQXfT2P14X9 5oeA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=kCKi/XyMvUJ6JLIolW3PZ5HFrTeHr9Ecgqt9r90ov5g=; b=sIMH2VtP/9befzszBPI/i7niZXE2JLMG0+ii6z45DBOulisnXRgv4hXZZFJsk8oXxs nCvtUwv96bJ6UH41u4l2UeEfoLBJ2GG2BYjWDHbFHnbYJICWod8Yfp9/C5RRVfUlYVQO V7Ea/7oFFkBPYhmIP9VUJH4J6r4/g1o5b9RmXH1JhD07R44dOY1wFnpCPKMgQOStExGq K/zmTq3LqV8tOHlwJuYN9LrbBZQykaKd/sr6kl7igQyPfwfexiANBc9cWz/aSTe9Cf1p dIQs0K7ShOjUgxcrYfLjkgQaWFM27TI0rely5NYXUQwUl5xl2ol40bkFahr7hL5ZntPE kDfw== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuZO00D8jZaBqGV/0HfkOaJIJ+K/ia3SaiX14RKtcAfhbckXp1mv n/YD5fXPvdH/e2S1uHMB3zs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypLdeUSB6zyuv/qBDCN58jotqrRWexJ1LmrCae6+kZNeJ0KpTxXWL9JRKNUscj60nUSB3yAslg== X-Received: by 2002:a7b:c850:: with SMTP id c16mr11283274wml.108.1587757683740; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 12:48:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from my-little-tumbleweed (200.143.13.109.rev.sfr.net. [109.13.143.200]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h3sm9445019wrm.73.2020.04.24.12.48.02 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 24 Apr 2020 12:48:02 -0700 (PDT) From: =?utf-8?Q?K=C3=A9vin_Le_Gouguec?= To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings References: <187E7752-27CA-4304-8BBB-695B9588DEC2@acm.org> <83d07xb2wp.fsf@gnu.org> <569DDA5E-28F0-4329-86B2-C9AE3AC4427F@acm.org> <831rodb035.fsf@gnu.org> <37969D02-FD67-4563-BD01-A2F483999D79@acm.org> <83v9lp9j41.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 21:48:02 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83v9lp9j41.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 24 Apr 2020 15:13:50 +0300") Message-ID: <87368sy8b1.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: contovob@tcd.ie, Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= , 40725@debbugs.gnu.org, juri@linkov.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Git handles renames gracefully. > > "Gracefully" is in the eyes of the beholder. It's true the support > for renames improved in the recent years, but there are still commands > that either fails or need special invocation methods to work across > renames. So it's still a source of inconvenience and occasional > failure or mistaken conclusions, and I'd like to avoid that if > possible. Out of curiosity, would it help if VC turned on these "special invocation methods"[1] by default? I ask because there are obvious advantages to renaming: Mattias gave "multiple good reasons" that are specific to this thread; more generally, better naming helps discoverability and onboarding, which Emacs could always use more of. Of course, if the costs of renaming (in terms of inconvenience for maintainers) cannot be made low enough, it's not worth lingering on the benefits. I'm just wondering if there will come a day where The Technology=E2=84=A2 gets good enough that we can afford renames[2], or if it will forever remain the "bane" of maintainers. [1] I am thinking of git-log's --follow option and git-diff's --find-rename option; I might be missing other knobs. [2] Dmitry pointed out bug#39044; I don't know how many other such issues are lying around, or if there are some "war stories" people can readily recount to show shortcomings in the current handling of renames. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 24 15:58:21 2020 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2020 19:58:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58007 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jS4Sq-00060P-Pt for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 15:58:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:57528) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jS4Sp-000606-Bz for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 15:58:19 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:37822) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jS4Sh-00030o-TC; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 15:58:11 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4889 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jS4Sg-0000Q9-ED; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 15:58:11 -0400 Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 22:57:57 +0300 Message-Id: <834kt8ac6y.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: =?utf-8?Q?K=C3=A9vin?= Le Gouguec In-Reply-To: <87368sy8b1.fsf@gmail.com> (message from =?utf-8?Q?K=C3=A9vin?= Le Gouguec on Fri, 24 Apr 2020 21:48:02 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings References: <187E7752-27CA-4304-8BBB-695B9588DEC2@acm.org> <83d07xb2wp.fsf@gnu.org> <569DDA5E-28F0-4329-86B2-C9AE3AC4427F@acm.org> <831rodb035.fsf@gnu.org> <37969D02-FD67-4563-BD01-A2F483999D79@acm.org> <83v9lp9j41.fsf@gnu.org> <87368sy8b1.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: contovob@tcd.ie, mattiase@acm.org, 40725@debbugs.gnu.org, juri@linkov.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: Kévin Le Gouguec > Cc: Mattias Engdegård , contovob@tcd.ie, > 40725@debbugs.gnu.org, juri@linkov.net > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 21:48:02 +0200 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > >> Git handles renames gracefully. > > > > "Gracefully" is in the eyes of the beholder. It's true the support > > for renames improved in the recent years, but there are still commands > > that either fails or need special invocation methods to work across > > renames. So it's still a source of inconvenience and occasional > > failure or mistaken conclusions, and I'd like to avoid that if > > possible. > > Out of curiosity, would it help if VC turned on these "special > invocation methods"[1] by default? They have limitations, and quite a few are expensive. > [1] I am thinking of git-log's --follow option and git-diff's > --find-rename option; I might be missing other knobs. "git log"'s --follow only works for single files (and it also has "--find-renames", which AFAIK is expensive). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 24 23:31:24 2020 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Apr 2020 03:31:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58326 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jSBXI-0003PN-5S for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 23:31:24 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35200) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jSBXH-0003KU-HW for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 23:31:23 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:46086) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jSBXB-0001am-JU; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 23:31:17 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jSBX9-0006Ub-6R; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 23:31:15 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Juri Linkov In-Reply-To: <87368tna2z.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Fri, 24 Apr 2020 00:52:52 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings References: <87eesj59yq.fsf@tcd.ie> <83wo6agrju.fsf@gnu.org> <87d0817qbh.fsf@tcd.ie> <83pnc1ez51.fsf@gnu.org> <875zdrgnrm.fsf@tcd.ie> <87368tna2z.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Message-Id: Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 23:31:15 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: contovob@tcd.ie, 40725@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > While we're on the topic of improving the manual - it's on my todo to > > eventually help with a Greek and possibly even Hungarian translation. > The problem is that a Greek tutorial when added to a file with the .el > extension in etc/tutorials/TUTORIAL.el will be visited in Emacs Lisp mode. > Out of curiosity, I checked other tutorials, and indeed the problem exists: > the Swedish tutorial etc/tutorials/TUTORIAL.sv is visited in Verilog mode. This is funny. I guess we should change the names of those files, perhaps by adding .txt at the end. -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 24 23:33:34 2020 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Apr 2020 03:33:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58331 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jSBZO-0004Fe-JP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 23:33:34 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35916) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jSBZN-0004FS-6E for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 23:33:33 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:46187) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jSBZH-0005GW-82; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 23:33:27 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jSBZC-0000AN-Jp; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 23:33:22 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <83pnbx9fgv.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Fri, 24 Apr 2020 16:32:32 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings References: <187E7752-27CA-4304-8BBB-695B9588DEC2@acm.org> <83d07xb2wp.fsf@gnu.org> <569DDA5E-28F0-4329-86B2-C9AE3AC4427F@acm.org> <831rodb035.fsf@gnu.org> <37969D02-FD67-4563-BD01-A2F483999D79@acm.org> <83v9lp9j41.fsf@gnu.org> <654FEBD4-BA27-4060-9CFD-0CF67F6000BB@acm.org> <83pnbx9fgv.fsf@gnu.org> Message-Id: Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 23:33:22 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: contovob@tcd.ie, mattiase@acm.org, 40725@debbugs.gnu.org, juri@linkov.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > You are making a mountain out of a molehill. > It isn't a molehill for me. I need to search VCS history quite a lot. If we rename a file, can't we rename its master file too, so that the history before the rename is include in what you search? -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 25 02:21:22 2020 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Apr 2020 06:21:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58381 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jSEBm-0000Ag-AO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 02:21:22 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:47600) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jSEBj-0000AQ-Dq for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 02:21:20 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:49525) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jSEBc-0005cb-Rc; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 02:21:12 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2835 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jSEBV-0004O5-3P; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 02:21:05 -0400 Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 09:20:54 +0300 Message-Id: <83zhb084s9.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: rms@gnu.org In-Reply-To: (message from Richard Stallman on Fri, 24 Apr 2020 23:33:22 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings References: <187E7752-27CA-4304-8BBB-695B9588DEC2@acm.org> <83d07xb2wp.fsf@gnu.org> <569DDA5E-28F0-4329-86B2-C9AE3AC4427F@acm.org> <831rodb035.fsf@gnu.org> <37969D02-FD67-4563-BD01-A2F483999D79@acm.org> <83v9lp9j41.fsf@gnu.org> <654FEBD4-BA27-4060-9CFD-0CF67F6000BB@acm.org> <83pnbx9fgv.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: contovob@tcd.ie, mattiase@acm.org, 40725@debbugs.gnu.org, juri@linkov.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: Richard Stallman > Cc: mattiase@acm.org, contovob@tcd.ie, 40725@debbugs.gnu.org, > juri@linkov.net > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 23:33:22 -0400 > > > > You are making a mountain out of a molehill. > > > It isn't a molehill for me. I need to search VCS history quite a lot. > > If we rename a file, can't we rename its master file too, so that the > history before the rename is include in what you search? With Git (and most modern VCS) there's no master file, as there were with RCS and CVS. Changes are tracked on the entire tree level, and stored as binary blobs in a special subdirectory (under the .git directory in the case of Git). I don't think it's possible to "edit" those blobs post-mortem to do the equivalent of the renaming you mention, but even if it were possible, it's a bad idea, because of at least 2 reasons: (a) it changes history, i.e. pretends that this file was always called by that new name; and (b) in modern VCS systems each commit's changeset is hashed and its hash is stored, so changing even one byte of that would cause the hash be incorrect, and the result will be a corrupted repository, AFAIU. So I think this kind of history rewriting is impossible, let alone not a good idea. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 25 04:54:45 2020 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Apr 2020 08:54:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58493 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jSGaD-0005yX-K8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 04:54:45 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:49320) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jSGaD-0005yL-0Y for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 04:54:45 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:50546) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jSGa6-0005Kz-SE; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 04:54:38 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4385 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jSGa6-0007fF-7R; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 04:54:38 -0400 Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 11:54:27 +0300 Message-Id: <83imho7xoc.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Juri Linkov In-Reply-To: <87368tna2z.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Fri, 24 Apr 2020 00:52:52 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings References: <87eesj59yq.fsf@tcd.ie> <83wo6agrju.fsf@gnu.org> <87d0817qbh.fsf@tcd.ie> <83pnc1ez51.fsf@gnu.org> <875zdrgnrm.fsf@tcd.ie> <87368tna2z.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: contovob@tcd.ie, 40725@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Juri Linkov > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 40725@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 00:52:52 +0300 > > The problem is that a Greek tutorial when added to a file with the .el > extension in etc/tutorials/TUTORIAL.el will be visited in Emacs Lisp mode. > > Out of curiosity, I checked other tutorials, and indeed the problem exists: > the Swedish tutorial etc/tutorials/TUTORIAL.sv is visited in Verilog mode. I've now tried that, and I think you saw that when visiting the tutorial as any other file, with "C-x C-f", right? Because starting a Swedish tutorial with "C-u C-h t Swedish RET" visits the file in Fundamental mode. So I don't think the problem is serious; if we want to cover the "C-x C-f" use case, we can always use file-local variables. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 25 16:54:36 2020 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Apr 2020 20:54:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60470 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jSRoq-00070a-JJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 16:54:36 -0400 Received: from relay7-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.200]:52207) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jSRop-00070H-Cv for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 16:54:35 -0400 X-Originating-IP: 91.129.106.11 Received: from mail.gandi.net (m91-129-106-11.cust.tele2.ee [91.129.106.11]) (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by relay7-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B63E020005; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 20:54:27 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <87eesj59yq.fsf@tcd.ie> <83wo6agrju.fsf@gnu.org> <87d0817qbh.fsf@tcd.ie> <83pnc1ez51.fsf@gnu.org> <875zdrgnrm.fsf@tcd.ie> <87368tna2z.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83imho7xoc.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 23:42:47 +0300 In-Reply-To: <83imho7xoc.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 25 Apr 2020 11:54:27 +0300") Message-ID: <87r1wbwchs.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: contovob@tcd.ie, 40725@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > I've now tried that, and I think you saw that when visiting the > tutorial as any other file, with "C-x C-f", right? Because starting a > Swedish tutorial with "C-u C-h t Swedish RET" visits the file in > Fundamental mode. So I don't think the problem is serious; if we want > to cover the "C-x C-f" use case, we can always use file-local > variables. Indeed, this problem exists only for tutorial writers, not readers. And for writers we could set a file-local variable -*- mode: text -*- OTOH, to avoid false grep hits, files could be renamed after fixing vc-git.el to handle renames better. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 26 22:18:31 2020 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Apr 2020 02:18:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35282 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jStLr-0007tZ-I9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Apr 2020 22:18:31 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:57030) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jStLp-0007tN-Bn for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Apr 2020 22:18:30 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:54458) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jStLi-00010x-KR; Sun, 26 Apr 2020 22:18:22 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jStLh-0004XC-GL; Sun, 26 Apr 2020 22:18:21 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <83zhb084s9.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Sat, 25 Apr 2020 09:20:54 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings References: <187E7752-27CA-4304-8BBB-695B9588DEC2@acm.org> <83d07xb2wp.fsf@gnu.org> <569DDA5E-28F0-4329-86B2-C9AE3AC4427F@acm.org> <831rodb035.fsf@gnu.org> <37969D02-FD67-4563-BD01-A2F483999D79@acm.org> <83v9lp9j41.fsf@gnu.org> <654FEBD4-BA27-4060-9CFD-0CF67F6000BB@acm.org> <83pnbx9fgv.fsf@gnu.org> <83zhb084s9.fsf@gnu.org> Message-Id: Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 22:18:21 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: contovob@tcd.ie, mattiase@acm.org, 40725@debbugs.gnu.org, juri@linkov.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] It is too bad that the option of renaming the file's whole history in the repo has been lost. It has been useful. I disagree with the idea that there is anything wrong about doing so. The change history is not meant as evidence for a court case. It is a log of past changes to the code, to help us understand how to change it in the future. What happened in the past is not a crucial question in its own right; rather, it matters because it can help answer questions such as why something fails now and how to change it. If a source file (let's say, flles.el) had a different name in the past, that makes little difference to maintaining the code in that file, as long as the renaming didn't change when and where the file is loaded. So it would be a significant help, and little loss, to put all the records for that file's code under the name "files.el", including records from when the file had another name. This is not a kind of tampering. It is filing the info under the name where we would look for it. -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 26 22:37:56 2020 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Apr 2020 02:37:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35295 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jSted-0008Mr-LR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Apr 2020 22:37:56 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:60382) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jStec-0008Mg-Lj for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Apr 2020 22:37:55 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:54822) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jSteV-0000Ba-I9; Sun, 26 Apr 2020 22:37:47 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2183 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jSteO-0000V7-29; Sun, 26 Apr 2020 22:37:40 -0400 Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 05:37:35 +0300 Message-Id: <83zhax4psg.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: rms@gnu.org In-Reply-To: (message from Richard Stallman on Sun, 26 Apr 2020 22:18:21 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings References: <187E7752-27CA-4304-8BBB-695B9588DEC2@acm.org> <83d07xb2wp.fsf@gnu.org> <569DDA5E-28F0-4329-86B2-C9AE3AC4427F@acm.org> <831rodb035.fsf@gnu.org> <37969D02-FD67-4563-BD01-A2F483999D79@acm.org> <83v9lp9j41.fsf@gnu.org> <654FEBD4-BA27-4060-9CFD-0CF67F6000BB@acm.org> <83pnbx9fgv.fsf@gnu.org> <83zhb084s9.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: contovob@tcd.ie, mattiase@acm.org, 40725@debbugs.gnu.org, juri@linkov.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Richard Stallman > Cc: contovob@tcd.ie, mattiase@acm.org, 40725@debbugs.gnu.org, > juri@linkov.net > Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 22:18:21 -0400 > > It is too bad that the option of renaming the file's whole history in > the repo has been lost. It has been useful. I disagree with the idea > that there is anything wrong about doing so. With modern distributed VCSes, there's no single p-lace where the history is held, so changing it make a problem for many people whose clones are now divergent, and cannot be updated. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 27 02:11:12 2020 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Apr 2020 06:11:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35371 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jSwz2-0000rO-8i for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 02:11:12 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.9]:41510) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jSwz0-0000rE-2r for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 02:11:11 -0400 Received: from frontend01.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.182]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 499ZCc5n4Zz1r6ms; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 08:11:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.6.70]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 499ZCc543Tz1qrhg; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 08:11:08 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.182]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.6.70]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oOj47lieXuPv; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 08:11:07 +0200 (CEST) X-Auth-Info: ZVyrUayknkDkUTkSuR9nowNXt5kM59Dcr05d8HmohkDZkM6kGutYh7mt25RBf30/ Received: from igel.home (ppp-46-244-184-148.dynamic.mnet-online.de [46.244.184.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 08:11:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: by igel.home (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3118F2C0C0C; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 08:11:07 +0200 (CEST) From: Andreas Schwab To: Richard Stallman Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings References: <187E7752-27CA-4304-8BBB-695B9588DEC2@acm.org> <83d07xb2wp.fsf@gnu.org> <569DDA5E-28F0-4329-86B2-C9AE3AC4427F@acm.org> <831rodb035.fsf@gnu.org> <37969D02-FD67-4563-BD01-A2F483999D79@acm.org> <83v9lp9j41.fsf@gnu.org> <654FEBD4-BA27-4060-9CFD-0CF67F6000BB@acm.org> <83pnbx9fgv.fsf@gnu.org> <83zhb084s9.fsf@gnu.org> X-Yow: I'm having a BIG BANG THEORY!! Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 08:11:07 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Sun, 26 Apr 2020 22:18:21 -0400") Message-ID: <87zhax1mro.fsf@igel.home> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: contovob@tcd.ie, mattiase@acm.org, Eli Zaretskii , 40725@debbugs.gnu.org, juri@linkov.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) On Apr 26 2020, Richard Stallman wrote: > It is too bad that the option of renaming the file's whole history in > the repo has been lost. It has been useful. It has never been useful. > I disagree with the idea that there is anything wrong about doing so. Renaming a file after the fact will break all historical references. Andreas. -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510 2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1 "And now for something completely different." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 27 22:50:05 2020 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Apr 2020 02:50:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38528 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTGJq-0007RN-Ji for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:50:05 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:41096) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTGJo-0007R9-Dt for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:49:56 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:49759) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTGJi-0003e5-4U; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:49:50 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jTGJe-0006fZ-6u; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:49:46 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Andreas Schwab In-Reply-To: <87zhax1mro.fsf@igel.home> (message from Andreas Schwab on Mon, 27 Apr 2020 08:11:07 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings References: <187E7752-27CA-4304-8BBB-695B9588DEC2@acm.org> <83d07xb2wp.fsf@gnu.org> <569DDA5E-28F0-4329-86B2-C9AE3AC4427F@acm.org> <831rodb035.fsf@gnu.org> <37969D02-FD67-4563-BD01-A2F483999D79@acm.org> <83v9lp9j41.fsf@gnu.org> <654FEBD4-BA27-4060-9CFD-0CF67F6000BB@acm.org> <83pnbx9fgv.fsf@gnu.org> <83zhb084s9.fsf@gnu.org> <87zhax1mro.fsf@igel.home> Message-Id: Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:49:46 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: contovob@tcd.ie, mattiase@acm.org, 40725@debbugs.gnu.org, juri@linkov.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > It is too bad that the option of renaming the file's whole history in > > the repo has been lost. It has been useful. > It has never been useful. How can you be so sure? > > I disagree with the idea that there is anything wrong about doing so. > Renaming a file after the fact will break all historical references. Which historical references, and in what sense would it "break" them? -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 28 03:03:01 2020 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Apr 2020 07:03:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38689 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTKGj-0005cl-Kt for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 03:03:01 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.9]:53478) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTKGi-0005cd-3t for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 03:03:00 -0400 Received: from frontend01.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.182]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49BCJy3Ypbz1qrfx; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 09:02:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.6.70]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49BCJy0s54z1r5Qh; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 09:02:58 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.182]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.6.70]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k9bK8ZY090hP; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 09:02:57 +0200 (CEST) X-Auth-Info: AaVJXaRymh0zETKmrXiXCshsITU1R0IBoj08j7Ms6qnBMX1Nqo9O2thS8DJzM92A Received: from igel.home (ppp-46-244-178-26.dynamic.mnet-online.de [46.244.178.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 09:02:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: by igel.home (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A2D3A2C0C61; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 09:02:56 +0200 (CEST) From: Andreas Schwab To: Richard Stallman Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings References: <187E7752-27CA-4304-8BBB-695B9588DEC2@acm.org> <83d07xb2wp.fsf@gnu.org> <569DDA5E-28F0-4329-86B2-C9AE3AC4427F@acm.org> <831rodb035.fsf@gnu.org> <37969D02-FD67-4563-BD01-A2F483999D79@acm.org> <83v9lp9j41.fsf@gnu.org> <654FEBD4-BA27-4060-9CFD-0CF67F6000BB@acm.org> <83pnbx9fgv.fsf@gnu.org> <83zhb084s9.fsf@gnu.org> <87zhax1mro.fsf@igel.home> X-Yow: .. My pants just went on a wild rampage through a Long Island Bowling Alley!! Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 09:02:56 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:49:46 -0400") Message-ID: <87368odrdr.fsf@igel.home> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: contovob@tcd.ie, mattiase@acm.org, 40725@debbugs.gnu.org, juri@linkov.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) On Apr 27 2020, Richard Stallman wrote: > Which historical references, and in what sense would it "break" them? Any place that mentions the file name in any point of history. Andreas. -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510 2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1 "And now for something completely different." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 28 23:25:59 2020 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Apr 2020 03:25:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42060 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTdMF-0005b7-Ha for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 23:25:59 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:51652) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTdMC-0005at-Un for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 23:25:58 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:46589) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTdM6-0001xP-UP; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 23:25:50 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jTdM1-0006nP-J5; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 23:25:46 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Andreas Schwab In-Reply-To: <87368odrdr.fsf@igel.home> (message from Andreas Schwab on Tue, 28 Apr 2020 09:02:56 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings References: <187E7752-27CA-4304-8BBB-695B9588DEC2@acm.org> <83d07xb2wp.fsf@gnu.org> <569DDA5E-28F0-4329-86B2-C9AE3AC4427F@acm.org> <831rodb035.fsf@gnu.org> <37969D02-FD67-4563-BD01-A2F483999D79@acm.org> <83v9lp9j41.fsf@gnu.org> <654FEBD4-BA27-4060-9CFD-0CF67F6000BB@acm.org> <83pnbx9fgv.fsf@gnu.org> <83zhb084s9.fsf@gnu.org> <87zhax1mro.fsf@igel.home> <87368odrdr.fsf@igel.home> Message-Id: Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 23:25:45 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: contovob@tcd.ie, mattiase@acm.org, 40725@debbugs.gnu.org, juri@linkov.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > Which historical references, and in what sense would it "break" them? > Any place that mentions the file name in any point of history. It is hard to understand what those words mean. I am compelled to resort to guessing. But I think the statement is not correct. I think the term "break" fits only if the name needs to be understood by a program, In that case, a program looking at the old file name would not find the file (unless we fix that program). However, a human can learn about the rename, and then understand what to do on seeing the old name. For this, "broken" is too strong a word to use. The change history should record the rename. Then a human who sees a reference to the old name can search for it and find out that the file was renamed. -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Apr 29 03:31:40 2020 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Apr 2020 07:31:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42222 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jThBu-0003Db-TM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 03:31:40 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:44300) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jThBt-0003DN-7d for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 03:31:33 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:49622) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jThBm-0005Gg-Sf; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 03:31:26 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1436 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jThBb-0004JZ-S7; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 03:31:16 -0400 Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 10:30:56 +0300 Message-Id: <83ees621fz.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: rms@gnu.org In-Reply-To: (message from Richard Stallman on Tue, 28 Apr 2020 23:25:45 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings References: <187E7752-27CA-4304-8BBB-695B9588DEC2@acm.org> <83d07xb2wp.fsf@gnu.org> <569DDA5E-28F0-4329-86B2-C9AE3AC4427F@acm.org> <831rodb035.fsf@gnu.org> <37969D02-FD67-4563-BD01-A2F483999D79@acm.org> <83v9lp9j41.fsf@gnu.org> <654FEBD4-BA27-4060-9CFD-0CF67F6000BB@acm.org> <83pnbx9fgv.fsf@gnu.org> <83zhb084s9.fsf@gnu.org> <87zhax1mro.fsf@igel.home> <87368odrdr.fsf@igel.home> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: contovob@tcd.ie, mattiase@acm.org, 40725@debbugs.gnu.org, schwab@linux-m68k.org, juri@linkov.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Richard Stallman > Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 23:25:45 -0400 > Cc: contovob@tcd.ie, mattiase@acm.org, 40725@debbugs.gnu.org, juri@linkov.net > > The change history should record the rename. Then a human who sees a reference > to the old name can search for it and find out that the file was renamed. Not all modern VCSes record renames. Git doesn't. Instead, it guesses the renames by comparing deleted files' contents with that of files added in the same commit. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Apr 29 22:32:46 2020 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2020 02:32:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45064 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTz0I-0006vk-OQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 22:32:46 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:37994) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTz0H-0006vY-CA for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 22:32:45 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:41368) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTz0B-0004KH-E1; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 22:32:39 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jTz07-0001X5-U9; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 22:32:36 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <83ees621fz.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Wed, 29 Apr 2020 10:30:56 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings References: <187E7752-27CA-4304-8BBB-695B9588DEC2@acm.org> <83d07xb2wp.fsf@gnu.org> <569DDA5E-28F0-4329-86B2-C9AE3AC4427F@acm.org> <831rodb035.fsf@gnu.org> <37969D02-FD67-4563-BD01-A2F483999D79@acm.org> <83v9lp9j41.fsf@gnu.org> <654FEBD4-BA27-4060-9CFD-0CF67F6000BB@acm.org> <83pnbx9fgv.fsf@gnu.org> <83zhb084s9.fsf@gnu.org> <87zhax1mro.fsf@igel.home> <87368odrdr.fsf@igel.home> <83ees621fz.fsf@gnu.org> Message-Id: Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 22:32:35 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: contovob@tcd.ie, mattiase@acm.org, 40725@debbugs.gnu.org, schwab@linux-m68k.org, juri@linkov.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > The change history should record the rename. Then a human who sees a reference > > to the old name can search for it and find out that the file was renamed. > Not all modern VCSes record renames. Git doesn't. If the change history won't do this automatically, the developers should write it explicitly in some log entry. That won't be hard. Also, it is useful to insert a file's previous names in a comment near the start of the file. -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Aug 18 09:54:48 2020 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Aug 2020 13:54:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34572 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k824e-0007Iv-EQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 09:54:48 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:32882) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k824b-0007Ie-RD for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 09:54:46 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=msnVqMvnB6JCa5qs2IVLYJRdoGPdn8yj5BCBLzRXf54=; b=j7nSXVPqDCwB1FbRvKKPvD+kes meVOxTkk6vEy+SdADkHP2pCN5IHjfIBAkCgp4x1v5BzvhSxg8+xEoKckmuZ1m1dbnJwl5EVgsX0Vo 9X2rrkZqCkVFgr0TP0MQ+iHbkLKgezgKSPhc0HBZDRe53SWxsRW4EnKsTVsiTOTp60PQ=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1k824S-0007af-R5; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 15:54:39 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: "Basil L. Contovounesios" Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings References: <87eesj59yq.fsf@tcd.ie> <83wo6agrju.fsf@gnu.org> <87d0817qbh.fsf@tcd.ie> <83pnc1ez51.fsf@gnu.org> <875zdrgnrm.fsf@tcd.ie> X-Now-Playing: Cocteau Twins's _Echoes in a Shallow Bay_: "Eggs and Their Shells" Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 15:54:35 +0200 In-Reply-To: <875zdrgnrm.fsf@tcd.ie> (Basil L. Contovounesios's message of "Wed, 22 Apr 2020 23:26:53 +0100") Message-ID: <87tux0kqjo.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: "Basil L. Contovounesios" writes: >>> In fact, the tutorial doesn't mention C-c at all, but apparently >>> it's included in tutorial--default-keys just because it's an >>> otherwise common prefix. >> >> AFAIU from the code, the main c [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 40725@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) "Basil L. Contovounesios" writes: >>> In fact, the tutorial doesn't mention C-c at all, but apparently >>> it's included in tutorial--default-keys just because it's an >>> otherwise common prefix. >> >> AFAIU from the code, the main consideration with C-c is when the user >> turns on the CUA mode, not because it's a common prefix. So maybe we >> should narrow the test to only make sure CUA rebindings get caught? > > Good point. I hadn't thought of that and I'll look into it. If I'm skimming this thread, the discussion then turned to (possibly) renaming some tutorial files that have file names that end with things like .el, which gives us the wrong modes. However, the original patch, which seemed to fix a concrete issue, doesn't seem to have been applied (because Eli thought it could be fixed in a better way)? -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Aug 18 14:52:49 2020 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Aug 2020 18:52:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37007 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k86j2-0005px-Vj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 14:52:49 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-f47.google.com ([209.85.128.47]:51192) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k86iz-0005pc-70 for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 14:52:47 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-f47.google.com with SMTP id c80so17166252wme.0 for <40725@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 11:52:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tcd-ie.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=FtvwteJrpcFt/EkOrKl863QWqvdQNnyVnTmJ+TmTyIU=; b=g4LP+OvH4+QH8ug8xIjBC+3vNM21Q4jIxpCkjAxnzcYRdzj3OS2kLDn4KN8f6uNriK XQIUvExekiBJDw1wXeUrj8hIXBj58ObDi8CwYpMaTdOkdf3yUGW7UPtJ4pH6LuGJyp97 E3tGi/WyJwAiIfdwz4hZ5mJAx5MDPbGZoEBusIsDDuiRRcqFvqRwfCwH3m7GFMtKzpIK LGFQcz2gjJIptCHRtdHn68AxH5AAabU6TQL+9p9jVBYRXFXBysdODc2QjpguYq/0U0J4 8ZWk1F8GDO6Mj3fH5MPO/x8lOasJxqriEkTX9J4wGWDO109P/B236NOJSHap8qPuoJjD rmQA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=FtvwteJrpcFt/EkOrKl863QWqvdQNnyVnTmJ+TmTyIU=; b=R0XZb7yIW6S1/z/PRNf3sDcn1+2GGcW4ALSuc3HSa0zYavreUOyfONfswH0h6o5zph lok00n7y16/3jdjtWn054NQ9rVFDkcxN27gtjAFImmH4o9N8gTHiAwjhqT2jkU/rwxg6 0CkA47InF5jN3BJLWpqXzN37hwS82Qg5lN9gSK/0lx+y5E4UxeKTl4aLQlpHshYnKxtW 5FfCBIZKC9ZKbCsUOwi1+0r7yLofju0FrhD5v0gPWpCWjmFC4mdxyEL2MBP/cQgNvXPQ qMNldW19n32a0TKhprnmeaJhvS2CZkP2hxaylGzVBsF4hM2LzY/6j5iXx6yfNsLePFN0 NxZA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530NGoVMYKGhxL4poGUc5kINDhK0u/GOnRJuYeX91c1PHVzHfoLG Grfza/9i1OpvQqnoTvj2QHcY8A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyr/EPhKv9e45bWLGnvM9WccP4/RYqkLsOcRhuCMzKbp5j4OndB8rhQp0Z6+FO1gJ7DgLAGEw== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:238d:: with SMTP id j135mr1159433wmj.71.1597776759217; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 11:52:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([2a02:8084:20e2:c380:36e2:16c0:7240:397]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x82sm1137333wmb.30.2020.08.18.11.52.38 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 18 Aug 2020 11:52:38 -0700 (PDT) From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings References: <87eesj59yq.fsf@tcd.ie> <83wo6agrju.fsf@gnu.org> <87d0817qbh.fsf@tcd.ie> <83pnc1ez51.fsf@gnu.org> <875zdrgnrm.fsf@tcd.ie> <87tux0kqjo.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 19:52:37 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87tux0kqjo.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Tue, 18 Aug 2020 15:54:35 +0200") Message-ID: <87y2mbiy6i.fsf@tcd.ie> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 40725@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > If I'm skimming this thread, the discussion then turned to (possibly) > renaming some tutorial files that have file names that end with things > like .el, which gives us the wrong modes. I haven't revisited this thread recently, but IIRC renaming files is to be avoided in general, especially if there is an alternative solution, such as using file variables. > However, the original patch, which seemed to fix a concrete issue, > doesn't seem to have been applied (because Eli thought it could be fixed > in a better way)? The patch can be applied as is, but I didn't do it yet because I want to extend its scope following Eli's suggestions. I'll try to get back to it soon=E2=84=A2, but don't hold your breath. :) --=20 Basil From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 19 06:21:01 2020 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Aug 2020 10:21:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37962 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k8LDI-0005tK-Vi for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 06:21:01 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:43010) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k8LDH-0005t7-AL for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 06:21:00 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=yVPE97rB+gH5ZgbH/IjSVLN+EkeElpmbzK8JZLSMECc=; b=a4d47XBVWy5lTNnycyISIFF43+ 8Fq8t5mT39wSPNVjHfo5dSdPjPhc3N1p+BLfJNvViZYO4IDENh4RmyXiMr/XOrPnFkQ9XwUfPxwuy Vr9qHg5F7uLN+rktia50yqEUfXjBjpgpuK9aCMu35E6l1fxmLJuW+tmVH7RaoUMdOz78=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1k8LD8-0003Q5-TM; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 12:20:53 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: "Basil L. Contovounesios" Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings References: <87eesj59yq.fsf@tcd.ie> <83wo6agrju.fsf@gnu.org> <87d0817qbh.fsf@tcd.ie> <83pnc1ez51.fsf@gnu.org> <875zdrgnrm.fsf@tcd.ie> <87tux0kqjo.fsf@gnus.org> <87y2mbiy6i.fsf@tcd.ie> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAD1BMVEWOindnZlyYk39B QTz////sDMURAAAAAWJLR0QEj2jZUQAAAAd0SU1FB+QIEwoUDBlSXiwAAAGiSURBVDjLbZRrtsMg CISBFUDcgHUF9bj/vd3hkWhOb/qjLZ/DKEiIWImJqMs4nj7I8mGjOyhdSOkAKQF/ATNiJ51GZA6g Htc+yqUrdD0A46PbHdkkzEkhhuJnVzDO545ifQFkw/eRqhTEX5jTVQJICyhPaHIlBIyVQm1N808c UYi74ERIDLAQ/PquKQRQYPcFXGF2BSEE/exrrRmpbDJJj1rgXOwgUFQAgIWzdC2AWXMT6WwOUD2q eCi82KpV7AMwNIgcoAjp04RH0e52sf2TCrVxkw0yrpELxz4UJVCYv1NZNcUb5kBPj7AnoBvMtlbW KjZs9DrHWm2mojzQq1kk8hVQb3eYt9XgsfJOwA+/aE3f1WxlnvGFelbRW3VkX2XbFYnDPKC1A9RW 56mY2eo0wfcJfOp21aw9mVS3OVOurZvlJ75bcOxGye4R00qKSMxCzh7apVIgAm5OfqMBcs7xv2O5 N1Z8Kv19kArBmhw43GkfjieVjxHeAILZAZSaWvPZuj7PCHZfE7uLt8XnGjm2IU2gAUx6vjTYp3SD nOMa/zH+AJnUWmpPjXDoAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIwLTA4LTE5VDEwOjIwOjEyKzAw OjAwwbb36gAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMC0wOC0xOVQxMDoyMDoxMiswMDowMLDrT1YA AAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Various's _Lonely is an Eyesore_: "Colourbox - Hot Doggie" Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 12:20:49 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87y2mbiy6i.fsf@tcd.ie> (Basil L. Contovounesios's message of "Tue, 18 Aug 2020 19:52:37 +0100") Message-ID: <87imdf7x8e.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: "Basil L. Contovounesios" writes: > The patch can be applied as is, but I didn't do it yet because I want to > extend its scope following Eli's suggestions. I'll try to get back to > it soon™, but don't hold your breath. :) Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 40725@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) "Basil L. Contovounesios" writes: > The patch can be applied as is, but I didn't do it yet because I want to > extend its scope following Eli's suggestions. I'll try to get back to > it soon=E2=84=A2, but don't hold your breath. :) :-) --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Nov 12 03:28:20 2021 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Nov 2021 08:28:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43392 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mlRv1-0008Uh-UM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Nov 2021 03:28:20 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:34878) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mlRv0-0008UT-2g for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Nov 2021 03:28:18 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=adT7cZp8RTfergOPoc461yciW1ng1HlC7W7IFSEUhBo=; b=no8436Y2kF6udqo0FyPUuK/4d5 sSkzMldw0PXtLjQwDWIUfYcP8jjSA8qXLXKylIEI5+KGuIQ1imz1sXcdOvUBYvNSIQi9U8htYXEJU y1d3oJqERZ+F56HPVRZMggXwXrLplCmfGlw61h57RgEUSuB635lg2+dOu0y7Tapf26XU=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mlRuq-0005lb-Bc; Fri, 12 Nov 2021 09:28:11 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: "Basil L. Contovounesios" Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings References: <87eesj59yq.fsf@tcd.ie> <83wo6agrju.fsf@gnu.org> <87d0817qbh.fsf@tcd.ie> <83pnc1ez51.fsf@gnu.org> <875zdrgnrm.fsf@tcd.ie> <87tux0kqjo.fsf@gnus.org> <87y2mbiy6i.fsf@tcd.ie> <87imdf7x8e.fsf@gnus.org> X-Now-Playing: Sonic Youth's _NYC Ghosts & Flowers_: "NYC Ghosts & Flowers" Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2021 09:28:07 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87imdf7x8e.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Wed, 19 Aug 2020 12:20:49 +0200") Message-ID: <87mtm9u6aw.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > "Basil L. Contovounesios" writes: > >> The patch can be applied as is, but I didn't do it yet because I want to >> extend its scope following Eli's suggestions. I'll try to get bac [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 40725@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > "Basil L. Contovounesios" writes: > >> The patch can be applied as is, but I didn't do it yet because I want to >> extend its scope following Eli's suggestions. I'll try to get back to >> it soon=E2=84=A2, but don't hold your breath. :) > > :-) *phew* This was a year ago -- any progress here? --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Nov 14 18:24:42 2021 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Nov 2021 23:24:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51998 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mmOra-0005V7-4i for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Nov 2021 18:24:42 -0500 Received: from mail-ed1-f54.google.com ([209.85.208.54]:38592) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mmOrY-0005Uu-Nu for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Nov 2021 18:24:41 -0500 Received: by mail-ed1-f54.google.com with SMTP id m20so17723108edc.5 for <40725@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 14 Nov 2021 15:24:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tcd.ie; s=google21; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=TahfvF1h2mzei552oBwOoX7XJ+GbQ3qaRD62B7FeH3k=; b=TwgMq++pDOD3KY26rTjFi7nG9OhshIIKo8swizIgEyU7MA6A70rwewkeOrZQ7EOzOQ /sszm8St8r+XE5YytwqtzPlHi2K874/3wKfd7pvBto+vV4LZL5VX86D/uksPgkRkk1Md 0TSrjqC7At2on4wkx4tG2DBqZTKqLgkhdtteNZKo8Opk5D6z8wb/HzAAosygN1/FU5LY O/CKOsM8YsuMjfEqNsEFlbwhotS5STQp2K2skOGVyMt/HrHiF5JD8Masays8b/DOtv0c z7LkAuqXgovfV7kWjGqBE65VY8Ymft2w9DJ4cS+gwKaZ7gVT3wR7A0V1tF5uG/hBESB2 OvKg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=TahfvF1h2mzei552oBwOoX7XJ+GbQ3qaRD62B7FeH3k=; b=gBGR54lLdJ5ODB/ouOAjhwolET5Yxqy7gQdn/hPvdmHHkQ1WGaxq0peeI4AguDjmKf gaqsQs1KO24FF3ri782Inw9t0EjxVAL3j3HUrPnk+Gbsrs+hNBbf+VM1miz/nL5r3vlG SEnMB5CXaHn0EzzRMWmPCI2RDkj8cjCeran3vVT4JGhxxzMNFMFtDrprsOXGQpd0gOec L4xjHxegN6nETFZRjw/Y/D3O9Fu/qUxVBFW4u/zFTgXUrxKnPHheZzVA5FqV/pOwJ0NI dm/lV5LtZl5/wcJQks0tw2Tqp8X6sOs0IFdCkrtbWqlNWjlieKQilrXKmbcE/IwJE00i WEMg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53189trde3nbC99UFJx51bH92efADQqj0vVfGLf70YT75DbDz+Xy T39pcOObNufmr0lGzcvANf1o4A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyLgIhhg7d+1QXzylg9mQyqxoFrB7dBjCKeUfY8V+9rJSxKGq4FPJzHFiM4RYXC2vEGSqwDbw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:b88f:: with SMTP id hb15mr43009736ejb.91.1636932274893; Sun, 14 Nov 2021 15:24:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (adsl-118.91.140.89.tellas.gr. [91.140.89.118]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d1sm5682044edn.56.2021.11.14.15.24.33 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 14 Nov 2021 15:24:34 -0800 (PST) From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings References: <87eesj59yq.fsf@tcd.ie> <83wo6agrju.fsf@gnu.org> <87d0817qbh.fsf@tcd.ie> <83pnc1ez51.fsf@gnu.org> <875zdrgnrm.fsf@tcd.ie> <87tux0kqjo.fsf@gnus.org> <87y2mbiy6i.fsf@tcd.ie> <87imdf7x8e.fsf@gnus.org> <87mtm9u6aw.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 01:24:32 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87mtm9u6aw.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Fri, 12 Nov 2021 09:28:07 +0100") Message-ID: <871r3iqq1b.fsf@tcd.ie> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 40725@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Lars Ingebrigtsen [2021-11-12 09:28 +0100] wrote: > Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > >> "Basil L. Contovounesios" writes: >> >>> The patch can be applied as is, but I didn't do it yet because I want to >>> extend its scope following Eli's suggestions. I'll try to get back to >>> it soon=E2=84=A2, but don't hold your breath. :) >> >> :-) > > *phew* This was a year ago -- any progress here? Sorry, I started looking at it again recently but didn't get very far. Starting tomorrow I'm going to be AFK for a few months, so feel free to apply the original patch as-is, and I'll continue auditing the key bindings when I'm back. Thanks, --=20 Basil From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Nov 15 00:52:57 2021 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Nov 2021 05:52:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52259 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mmUvJ-0007LK-6S for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Nov 2021 00:52:57 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:40130) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mmUvH-0007L2-Bu for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Nov 2021 00:52:55 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=xLs6oPR97A8yEhuAHrQQ062QoVTbKdMGLCJwxBE0Cfs=; b=fxXI9vVrRNebb4dDGtfpxb1zkH 5Muf9p4SnSpyK54jKF/AurD68kULyM/jtSo7fBtE8qSHDrEU0VX9uW4FIuDOq4AQRMq7FgifCTB2C Dg8uEOJXuPoIJZvB8qYZrqcPGWoyNLjl0/ee/tj2x8r21+UjMzNTWQnLzrJe8CtGwzxU=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mmUv9-00029u-8J for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Nov 2021 06:52:49 +0100 Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 06:52:46 +0100 Message-Id: <87v90u0xu9.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #40725 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. 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Content preview: close 40725 29.1 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) close 40725 29.1 quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Nov 15 00:53:26 2021 Received: (at 40725) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Nov 2021 05:53:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52265 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mmUvm-0007Mk-Cw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Nov 2021 00:53:26 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:40156) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mmUvk-0007MV-7K for 40725@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Nov 2021 00:53:25 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=wax2hbpkzxj9Tc+daxpCFB8ZzNTATuc1yoFhD8w3+Bk=; b=ifOJ4ivRrGfqBRKdULX6gxhDQg sxxfvjtJwPA2GtABVgRN7dZOZVTgw8LTTHRPotQMGq/Yx31MLVlYdv0p7l8HvDRYzj1ncUBynwLtQ RU3w1Tc95+b+lKYlNNB0+6S2J+kWES+lrS30PONW0+rII/grkOvtwJtQ3/eWhAbE6QH4=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mmUvb-0002AD-14; Mon, 15 Nov 2021 06:53:18 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: "Basil L. Contovounesios" Subject: Re: bug#40725: 27.0.91; Tutorial reports false positive key rebindings References: <87eesj59yq.fsf@tcd.ie> <83wo6agrju.fsf@gnu.org> <87d0817qbh.fsf@tcd.ie> <83pnc1ez51.fsf@gnu.org> <875zdrgnrm.fsf@tcd.ie> <87tux0kqjo.fsf@gnus.org> <87y2mbiy6i.fsf@tcd.ie> <87imdf7x8e.fsf@gnus.org> <87mtm9u6aw.fsf@gnus.org> <871r3iqq1b.fsf@tcd.ie> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAgMAAAAqbBEUAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAACVBMVEXO1dWNcDX////Y 16zIAAAAAWJLR0QCZgt8ZAAAAAlwSFlzAAALEgAACxIB0t1+/AAAAAd0SU1FB+ULDwUxGpgaPfUA AACNSURBVCjP3Y9BDgMhCEUxkb1N5D6Q1L0mcP+rDKOOdNFtNzUx4Ql8/wf4x4PWT01mesB+Cven 6RPgK/AsdMF6zUngiBFlYCh7vhPHsrYIqZYDWi0xpn0QPjBEYg5JFUPAtD7ORndy81MFxYxkC9YJ 3rhlJCWzxiunC6PZNvp2AyuOd/nlmUqZK8Did09dr8clJGwSuaAAAABaZVhJZk1NACoAAAAIAAUB EgADAAAAAQABAAABGgAFAAAAAQAAAEoBGwAFAAAAAQAAAFIBKAADAAAAAQACAAACEwADAAAAAQAB AAAAAAAAAAAASAAAAAEAAABIAAAAAR9S9zQAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6Y3JlYXRlADIwMjEtMTEtMTVU MDU6NDk6MjYrMDA6MDAk2HZlAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOm1vZGlmeQAyMDIxLTExLTE1VDA1OjQ5OjI2 KzAwOjAwVYXO2QAAABd0RVh0ZXhpZjpZQ2JDclBvc2l0aW9uaW5nADGsD4BjAAAAMHRFWHRpY2M6 Y29weXJpZ2h0AENvcHlyaWdodCAyMDAwIEFkb2JlIFN5c3RlbXMsIEluYy6pb7Z0AAAAKXRFWHRp Y2M6ZGVzY3JpcHRpb24AVS5TLiBXZWIgQ29hdGVkIChTV09QKSB2MqZOuwAAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Herbert's _Musca_: "Two Doors feat. Joy Morgan" Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 06:53:14 +0100 In-Reply-To: <871r3iqq1b.fsf@tcd.ie> (Basil L. Contovounesios's message of "Mon, 15 Nov 2021 01:24:32 +0200") Message-ID: <87r1bi0xth.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: "Basil L. Contovounesios" writes: > Sorry, I started looking at it again recently but didn't get very far. > Starting tomorrow I'm going to be AFK for a few months, so feel free to > apply the original patch as-is, and I'll continue a [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40725 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 40725@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) "Basil L. Contovounesios" writes: > Sorry, I started looking at it again recently but didn't get very far. > Starting tomorrow I'm going to be AFK for a few months, so feel free to > apply the original patch as-is, and I'll continue auditing the key > bindings when I'm back. OK; I've now pushed the original patch to Emacs 29. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From unknown Mon Aug 18 00:03:44 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2021 12:24:08 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator