From unknown Sun Jun 22 11:45:49 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#40561: 27.0.90; Mail-related errors in docstrings and manuals Resent-From: "Jorge P. de Morais Neto" Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 19:02:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 40561 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 40561@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.158663170110611 (code B ref -1); Sat, 11 Apr 2020 19:02:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Apr 2020 19:01:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57086 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jNLNo-0002l0-BR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:01:41 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:59681) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jNLNm-0002ks-Gz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:01:35 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37646) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jNLNk-0001fm-G8 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:01:34 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jNLNh-0007o4-Sc for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:01:31 -0400 Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([178.21.23.139]:37078) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jNLNg-0007mp-1P for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:01:28 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by disroot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 478ED2CCF5 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 21:01:24 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at disroot.org Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (disroot.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7V1Wi_SOwFUJ for ; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 21:01:22 +0200 (CEST) From: "Jorge P. de Morais Neto" DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=disroot.org; s=mail; t=1586631682; bh=7+KWrm85x3JcSEdfGcuWWaG5wyEi1JaagNP1ws5OJok=; h=From:To:Subject:Date; b=bDiTmBaVzN0/XXvCOvtQUDOht/s6tGbU1abumjr7nwr69R3yhQuWPXtldjIjWWs7I 54K+FD25B3PAwS6nbFJsMS3upwwp/J8eOUYY6MLal/YSm1q7mtDhpAw32urvrmbVvD J6fSzgFdCO5G9PbbIEJBKPCVS2Z8lX36Z0IfdYrCW0cKu/VjVk6EtjzP56WUOThKyV v3BzeHOhoVc1HD7kjLB5JDtA/nP44kL6DStJ8HYn2tJSsYxgOc9T6RX7fk0nAL/qT2 zngL8pPkfMijq940WWZPW3In0SgbfGRCqrQ5o3vTyfZgZDnct4veAaNRbio1rrhUh6 sG2ignVHd8WAA== Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 16:00:50 -0300 Message-ID: <87ftd9sv8d.fsf@disroot.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 178.21.23.139 X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) * Mail-related documentation errors Hello. Below I report a series of small mail-related errors/inconsistencies in Emacs docstrings and Info manual. ** C-u C-x m [[info:emacs#Sending Mail]] says If you invoke the command with a prefix argument, =E2=80=98C-u C-x m=E2= =80=99, Emacs switches back to the last mail buffer, and asks if you want to erase the message in that buffer However, the docstring of `compose-mail' says just CONTINUE, if non-nil, says to continue editing a message already being composed. Interactively, CONTINUE is the prefix argument. And in my quick testing with emacs -q, `C-u C-x m' does not ask to erase the message, suggesting the docstring is correct but not the manual. ** [[info:emacs#Mail Headers]] *** mail-from-style In comparison with the `mail-from-style' docstring, the manual informs the wrong default and fails to mention that the variable is obsolete because only the `angles' value respects RFC2822[1]. And I think that, since the variable is now obsolete , then the Info manual should not even discuss it at length. 1: I don't know why the docstring mentions RFC 2822, as Wikipedia says that RFC 5322 replaced the earlier RFC 2822 in 2008. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Email#Internet_Message_Format *** `Mail-Followup-To' I could not understand the meaning of `Mail-Followup-To'. The manual describes a use case, but I did not understand what is the intended difference in behavior of a mail client that replies to a message containing `Mail-Followup-To' instead of `Mail-Reply-To' or `Reply-To'. ** [[info:emacs#Mail Aliases]] Is this feature still widely used? Are users supposed to manually maintain ~/.mailrc? Do not the great majority rely on more convenient completion mechanisms like LDAP, notmuch or EBDB? If so, it may be wise to move this manual section to the end, and mention (even if just in a generic way) that there are much more popular completion mechanisms. The Emacs manual is large, and it seems a good idea to organize it in such a way that the user can easily identify (and optionally skip) the less important sections. ** [[info:emacs#Mail Sending]] Why does this section describe the possible values of `send-mail-function' (used for Mail mode), when the section is about Message mode? ** [[info:emacs#Header Editing]] This section of the Info manual says that `message-tab' attempts to insert the full name corresponding to the address based on a couple of methods, including EUDC, a library that recognizes a number of directory server protocols[...] Failing that, it attempts to expand the address as a mail alias[...] The docstring, however, omits the fallback to mail alias completion. ** `mail-user-agent' docstring The docstring of `mail-user-agent' refers to the Info node `(message)' for Message mode and `(emacs)Sending Mail' for Mail mode. This is a bit misleading because `(emacs)Sending Mail' describes directly Message mode and only indirectly (by compatibility) does it describe Mail mode. * Feedback I am obsessed with detail and I welcome feedback about that -- please tell me whether I am nitpicking. Regards In GNU Emacs 27.0.90 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.5) of 2020-04-11 built on jorge--inspiron-5570 Repository revision: fd27685c1e68e742abf1698573dac53743f15e48 Repository branch: emacs-27 Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12004000 System Description: Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster) [ I omitted some details generated by M-x report-emacs-bug that seem irrelevant to documentation bug reports. ] --=20 - - I am Brazilian. I hope my English is correct and I welcome feedback. - Please adopt free/libre formats like PDF, ODF, Org, LaTeX, Opus, WebM and= 7z. - Free/libre software for Replicant, LineageOS and Android: https://f-droid= .org - [[https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html][What is free software?]] From unknown Sun Jun 22 11:45:49 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: "Jorge P. de Morais Neto" Subject: bug#40561: closed (Re: bug#40561: 27.0.90; Mail-related errors in docstrings and manuals) Message-ID: References: <83d08dks4k.fsf@gnu.org> <87ftd9sv8d.fsf@disroot.org> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 40561 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 40561@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 08:48:02 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1586681282-30191-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1586681282-30191-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #40561: 27.0.90; Mail-related errors in docstrings and manuals which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 40561@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 40561: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D40561 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1586681282-30191-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 40561-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Apr 2020 08:47:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57338 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jNYHI-0007qO-Uj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 04:47:45 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:51615) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jNYHG-0007qB-TD for 40561-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 04:47:43 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:56526) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jNYHB-0003OU-Mx; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 04:47:37 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3571 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jNYH9-0005Dz-SK; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 04:47:37 -0400 Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 11:47:23 +0300 Message-Id: <83d08dks4k.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: "Jorge P. de Morais Neto" In-Reply-To: <87ftd9sv8d.fsf@disroot.org> (jorge+list@disroot.org) Subject: Re: bug#40561: 27.0.90; Mail-related errors in docstrings and manuals References: <87ftd9sv8d.fsf@disroot.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40561-done Cc: 40561-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: "Jorge P. de Morais Neto" > Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 16:00:50 -0300 > > ** C-u C-x m > > [[info:emacs#Sending Mail]] says > > If you invoke the command with a prefix argument, ‘C-u C-x m’, Emacs > switches back to the last mail buffer, and asks if you want to erase > the message in that buffer > > However, the docstring of `compose-mail' says just > > CONTINUE, if non-nil, says to continue editing a message already > being composed. Interactively, CONTINUE is the prefix argument. > > And in my quick testing with emacs -q, `C-u C-x m' does not ask to erase > the message, suggesting the docstring is correct but not the manual. Sigh. 10 years since the defaults of sending email changed in Emacs 23.2, and we are still not done with the fallout. I fixed the manual to describe what actually happens. I do think that what the manual described originally is a saner behavior: The mail buffer is an ordinary Emacs buffer, so you can switch to other buffers while composing the mail. If you want to send another mail before finishing the current one, type @kbd{C-x m} again to open a new mail buffer whose name has a different numeric suffix (@pxref{Misc Buffer}). If you invoke the command with a prefix argument, @w{@kbd{C-u C-x m}}, Emacs switches back to the last mail buffer, and asks if you want to erase the message in that buffer; if you answer no, this lets you pick up editing the message where you left off. But we cannot have that, since message-mail doesn't support the special value 'new' for the CONTINUE argument (sendmail.el's 'mail' did), and this the ability to compose a new message without losing the previous one is lost. The inverted defaults for when to ask whether to erase existing text also sounds like a step backward to me. Oh well. > *** mail-from-style > > In comparison with the `mail-from-style' docstring, the manual informs > the wrong default and fails to mention that the variable is obsolete > because only the `angles' value respects RFC2822[1]. And I think that, > since the variable is now obsolete , then the Info manual should not > even discuss it at length. Removed from manual. (Btw, the fact that the variable is obsolete was never called out in NEWS.) > 1: I don't know why the docstring mentions RFC 2822, as Wikipedia says > that RFC 5322 replaced the earlier RFC 2822 in 2008. See > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Email#Internet_Message_Format Fixed the RFC number. > *** `Mail-Followup-To' > > I could not understand the meaning of `Mail-Followup-To'. The manual > describes a use case, but I did not understand what is the intended > difference in behavior of a mail client that replies to a message > containing `Mail-Followup-To' instead of `Mail-Reply-To' or `Reply-To'. Not sure what is unclear, the description sounds very clear to me, although I'm nowhere near being an expert. > ** [[info:emacs#Mail Aliases]] > > Is this feature still widely used? Are users supposed to manually > maintain ~/.mailrc? Do not the great majority rely on more convenient > completion mechanisms like LDAP, notmuch or EBDB? If so, it may be wise > to move this manual section to the end, and mention (even if just in a > generic way) that there are much more popular completion mechanisms. > The Emacs manual is large, and it seems a good idea to organize it in > such a way that the user can easily identify (and optionally skip) the > less important sections. Yes, this feature is still used. No, I don't see a reason to move the description. > ** [[info:emacs#Mail Sending]] > > Why does this section describe the possible values of > `send-mail-function' (used for Mail mode), when the section is about > Message mode? That section is not about message-mode, it's about sending email. message-mode is just the default mode we use for editing and sending. > ** [[info:emacs#Header Editing]] > > This section of the Info manual says that `message-tab' > > attempts to insert the full name corresponding to the address based > on a couple of methods, including EUDC, a library that recognizes a > number of directory server protocols[...] Failing that, it attempts > to expand the address as a mail alias[...] > > The docstring, however, omits the fallback to mail alias completion. The doc string doesn't omit that, because what you call "the fallback" is actually prescribed by message-completion-alist: as long as message-expand-name is in that list, the fallback will work, since message-expand-name implements it. But message-completion-alist is a defcustom, so users can customize it to anything they want, including the removal of message-expand-name from the list. > ** `mail-user-agent' docstring > > The docstring of `mail-user-agent' refers to the Info node `(message)' > for Message mode and `(emacs)Sending Mail' for Mail mode. This is a bit > misleading because `(emacs)Sending Mail' describes directly Message mode > and only indirectly (by compatibility) does it describe Mail mode. I see no problem here. > * Feedback > > I am obsessed with detail and I welcome feedback about that -- please > tell me whether I am nitpicking. No comment. Thanks. ------------=_1586681282-30191-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Apr 2020 19:01:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57086 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jNLNo-0002l0-BR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:01:41 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:59681) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jNLNm-0002ks-Gz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:01:35 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37646) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jNLNk-0001fm-G8 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:01:34 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jNLNh-0007o4-Sc for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:01:31 -0400 Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([178.21.23.139]:37078) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jNLNg-0007mp-1P for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:01:28 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by disroot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 478ED2CCF5 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 21:01:24 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at disroot.org Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (disroot.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7V1Wi_SOwFUJ for ; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 21:01:22 +0200 (CEST) From: "Jorge P. de Morais Neto" DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=disroot.org; s=mail; t=1586631682; bh=7+KWrm85x3JcSEdfGcuWWaG5wyEi1JaagNP1ws5OJok=; h=From:To:Subject:Date; b=bDiTmBaVzN0/XXvCOvtQUDOht/s6tGbU1abumjr7nwr69R3yhQuWPXtldjIjWWs7I 54K+FD25B3PAwS6nbFJsMS3upwwp/J8eOUYY6MLal/YSm1q7mtDhpAw32urvrmbVvD J6fSzgFdCO5G9PbbIEJBKPCVS2Z8lX36Z0IfdYrCW0cKu/VjVk6EtjzP56WUOThKyV v3BzeHOhoVc1HD7kjLB5JDtA/nP44kL6DStJ8HYn2tJSsYxgOc9T6RX7fk0nAL/qT2 zngL8pPkfMijq940WWZPW3In0SgbfGRCqrQ5o3vTyfZgZDnct4veAaNRbio1rrhUh6 sG2ignVHd8WAA== To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 27.0.90; Mail-related errors in docstrings and manuals Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 16:00:50 -0300 Message-ID: <87ftd9sv8d.fsf@disroot.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 178.21.23.139 X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) * Mail-related documentation errors Hello. Below I report a series of small mail-related errors/inconsistencies in Emacs docstrings and Info manual. ** C-u C-x m [[info:emacs#Sending Mail]] says If you invoke the command with a prefix argument, =E2=80=98C-u C-x m=E2= =80=99, Emacs switches back to the last mail buffer, and asks if you want to erase the message in that buffer However, the docstring of `compose-mail' says just CONTINUE, if non-nil, says to continue editing a message already being composed. Interactively, CONTINUE is the prefix argument. And in my quick testing with emacs -q, `C-u C-x m' does not ask to erase the message, suggesting the docstring is correct but not the manual. ** [[info:emacs#Mail Headers]] *** mail-from-style In comparison with the `mail-from-style' docstring, the manual informs the wrong default and fails to mention that the variable is obsolete because only the `angles' value respects RFC2822[1]. And I think that, since the variable is now obsolete , then the Info manual should not even discuss it at length. 1: I don't know why the docstring mentions RFC 2822, as Wikipedia says that RFC 5322 replaced the earlier RFC 2822 in 2008. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Email#Internet_Message_Format *** `Mail-Followup-To' I could not understand the meaning of `Mail-Followup-To'. The manual describes a use case, but I did not understand what is the intended difference in behavior of a mail client that replies to a message containing `Mail-Followup-To' instead of `Mail-Reply-To' or `Reply-To'. ** [[info:emacs#Mail Aliases]] Is this feature still widely used? Are users supposed to manually maintain ~/.mailrc? Do not the great majority rely on more convenient completion mechanisms like LDAP, notmuch or EBDB? If so, it may be wise to move this manual section to the end, and mention (even if just in a generic way) that there are much more popular completion mechanisms. The Emacs manual is large, and it seems a good idea to organize it in such a way that the user can easily identify (and optionally skip) the less important sections. ** [[info:emacs#Mail Sending]] Why does this section describe the possible values of `send-mail-function' (used for Mail mode), when the section is about Message mode? ** [[info:emacs#Header Editing]] This section of the Info manual says that `message-tab' attempts to insert the full name corresponding to the address based on a couple of methods, including EUDC, a library that recognizes a number of directory server protocols[...] Failing that, it attempts to expand the address as a mail alias[...] The docstring, however, omits the fallback to mail alias completion. ** `mail-user-agent' docstring The docstring of `mail-user-agent' refers to the Info node `(message)' for Message mode and `(emacs)Sending Mail' for Mail mode. This is a bit misleading because `(emacs)Sending Mail' describes directly Message mode and only indirectly (by compatibility) does it describe Mail mode. * Feedback I am obsessed with detail and I welcome feedback about that -- please tell me whether I am nitpicking. Regards In GNU Emacs 27.0.90 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.5) of 2020-04-11 built on jorge--inspiron-5570 Repository revision: fd27685c1e68e742abf1698573dac53743f15e48 Repository branch: emacs-27 Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12004000 System Description: Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster) [ I omitted some details generated by M-x report-emacs-bug that seem irrelevant to documentation bug reports. ] --=20 - - I am Brazilian. I hope my English is correct and I welcome feedback. - Please adopt free/libre formats like PDF, ODF, Org, LaTeX, Opus, WebM and= 7z. - Free/libre software for Replicant, LineageOS and Android: https://f-droid= .org - [[https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html][What is free software?]] ------------=_1586681282-30191-1-- From unknown Sun Jun 22 11:45:49 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#40561: 27.0.90; Mail-related errors in docstrings and manuals Resent-From: Jorge P. de Morais Neto Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 18:21:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 40561 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 40561@debbugs.gnu.org, 40561-done@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 40561-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B40561.158671564229412 (code B ref 40561); Sun, 12 Apr 2020 18:21:02 +0000 Received: (at 40561) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Apr 2020 18:20:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58835 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jNhDl-0007eE-EC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 14:20:41 -0400 Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([178.21.23.139]:42392) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jNhDi-0007e0-Oe; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 14:20:39 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by disroot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABC0D20995; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 20:20:37 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at disroot.org Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (disroot.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1Fl3dRZBMcbP; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 20:20:36 +0200 (CEST) From: Jorge P. de Morais Neto DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=disroot.org; s=mail; t=1586715636; bh=umNBnmTXRhCrtayusiIIPHXFIVYaKIEOHuYIh4kY9Js=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=Cgwo3cLjQ3Op4rj6gNrQu18ur0+4feiF4r1pA20azuykRavASVY93UWYOS+76zcJN 4Wv08Kq2cnjMmZ+hXRj3MfxZSSwJSxjJqm4AphpfadVK/g8hmDLCIP7opsfH538lZb V5HymDI0GT7pAOTugrr9BeCMqAHznM6iILnjNr965ADLNP5qr21BJTpwlShFNXz7Gp nH8Xyz7K3MzKHp7qFepRqi7SPPWy8pFfNLTkQTfRN3lHexX0mCGhPJ4tph29MCuKeF LqVKFbJ/7LS7tR+i3FZp155lWbIPd/iXn/OoL17ZTuAROeyQkk037Gp9OlDURmm49O dn1dyGqU6jUYA== In-Reply-To: <83d08dks4k.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87ftd9sv8d.fsf@disroot.org> <83d08dks4k.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 15:20:22 -0300 Message-ID: <87eess36s9.fsf@disroot.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi. Em [2020-04-12 dom 11:47:23+0300], Eli Zaretskii escreveu: > I fixed the manual to describe what actually happens. I have just updated Emacs to the latest emacs-27 commit, and, while you fixed the description of `C-u C-x m', unfortunately you messed up the behavior of plain `C-x m'. According to my quick testing (via `emacs -q`), a plain C-x m behaves as previously described in the manual. >> I could not understand the meaning of `Mail-Followup-To'. The manual >> describes a use case, but I did not understand what is the intended >> difference in behavior of a mail client that replies to a message >> containing `Mail-Followup-To' instead of `Mail-Reply-To' or `Reply-To'. > > Not sure what is unclear, the description sounds very clear to me, > although I'm nowhere near being an expert. I had to search the web and read to understand the behavior of `Mail-Followup-To'. I then understood that reply-to-sender goes to Mail-Reply-To/Reply-To/From while wide reply goes to Mail-Followup-To/(To+Cc+(Mail-Reply-To/Reply-To/From)). I believe this is not obvious from the Emacs manual. I am not asking Emacs manual to reproduce all the contents of the web page mentioned above. But at least it could say (in addition to what it already says) that: 1. Mail clients typically have two different reply functions: one called `reply to author' or `reply to sender' or `personal reply,' and one called `follow up' or `reply to all' or `reply to sender and recipients' or `wide reply' or `group reply'. (Optionally the manual could mention only the terms used by popular Emacs mail readers.) 2. Mention that reply to sender typically goes to Mail-Reply-To/Reply-To/From and wide reply goes to Mail-Followup-To/(To+Cc+(Mail-Reply-To/Reply-To/From)). Briefly explain that this slash syntax indicates prioritized alternatives. >> ** [[info:emacs#Mail Sending]] >>=20 >> Why does this section describe the possible values of >> `send-mail-function' (used for Mail mode), when the section is about >> Message mode? > > That section is not about message-mode, it's about sending email. > message-mode is just the default mode we use for editing and sending. I still find the manual a bit misleading. The first sentence of the last paragraph of the parent section says: In this section, we will describe some of the most commonly-used commands available in Message mode. Then the [[info:emacs#Mail Sending]] section says The variable =E2=80=98message-send-mail-function=E2=80=99 controls how = the message is delivered (=E2=80=98send-mail-function=E2=80=99 is used for Mail mode). That made me think that people who use Message Mode should set =E2=80=98message-send-mail-function=E2=80=99 instead of =E2=80=98send-mail-= function=E2=80=99. It is possible that this misunderstanding was caused by bad reading comprehension on my part -- and my native (and everyday) language is Portuguese. And thank you for your work in Emacs! Regards --=20 - - I am Brazilian. I hope my English is correct and I welcome feedback. - Please adopt free/libre formats like PDF, ODF, Org, LaTeX, Opus, WebM and= 7z. - Free/libre software for Replicant, LineageOS and Android: https://f-droid= .org - [[https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html][What is free software?]] From unknown Sun Jun 22 11:45:49 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#40561: 27.0.90; Mail-related errors in docstrings and manuals Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 18:35:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 40561 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jorge P. de Morais Neto Cc: 40561@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 40561-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B40561.158671647330860 (code B ref 40561); Sun, 12 Apr 2020 18:35:01 +0000 Received: (at 40561) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Apr 2020 18:34:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58859 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jNhRB-00081f-Ir for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 14:34:33 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40798) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jNhRA-00081T-Ei for 40561@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 14:34:32 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:34421) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jNhR5-0007QO-AA; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 14:34:27 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2258 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jNhR4-0002qN-36; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 14:34:27 -0400 Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 21:34:13 +0300 Message-Id: <83r1wsk0yi.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <87eess36s9.fsf@disroot.org> (message from Jorge P. de Morais Neto on Sun, 12 Apr 2020 15:20:22 -0300) References: <87ftd9sv8d.fsf@disroot.org> <83d08dks4k.fsf@gnu.org> <87eess36s9.fsf@disroot.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: Jorge P. de Morais Neto > Cc: 40561-done@debbugs.gnu.org, 40561@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 15:20:22 -0300 > > I have just updated Emacs to the latest emacs-27 commit, and, while you > fixed the description of `C-u C-x m', unfortunately you messed up the > behavior of plain `C-x m'. According to my quick testing (via `emacs > -q`), a plain C-x m behaves as previously described in the manual. Please elaborate: what previous description was correct that I messed up? > I am not asking Emacs manual to reproduce all the contents of the web > page mentioned above. But at least it could say (in addition to what it > already says) that: > > 1. Mail clients typically have two different reply functions: one called > `reply to author' or `reply to sender' or `personal reply,' and one > called `follow up' or `reply to all' or `reply to sender and > recipients' or `wide reply' or `group reply'. (Optionally the manual > could mention only the terms used by popular Emacs mail readers.) > 2. Mention that reply to sender typically goes to > Mail-Reply-To/Reply-To/From and wide reply goes to > Mail-Followup-To/(To+Cc+(Mail-Reply-To/Reply-To/From)). Briefly > explain that this slash syntax indicates prioritized alternatives. I use Rmail. It has only one command: rmail-replay. It uses these headers according to the precedence described in the manual, AFAICT. Maybe Gnus has more "reply" commands, but Gnus has its own manual. > > That section is not about message-mode, it's about sending email. > > message-mode is just the default mode we use for editing and sending. > > I still find the manual a bit misleading. The first sentence of the > last paragraph of the parent section says: > > In this section, we will describe some of the most commonly-used > commands available in Message mode. > > Then the [[info:emacs#Mail Sending]] section says > > The variable ‘message-send-mail-function’ controls how the message is > delivered (‘send-mail-function’ is used for Mail mode). > > That made me think that people who use Message Mode should set > ‘message-send-mail-function’ instead of ‘send-mail-function’. > > It is possible that this misunderstanding was caused by bad reading > comprehension on my part -- and my native (and everyday) language is > Portuguese. I'd be interested to hear opinions by others about this. > And thank you for your work in Emacs! Thank you for your attention to the details in the manual. From unknown Sun Jun 22 11:45:49 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#40561: 27.0.90; Mail-related errors in docstrings and manuals Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 18:52:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 40561 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: jorge+list@disroot.org Cc: 40561@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 40561-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B40561.158671749832425 (code B ref 40561); Sun, 12 Apr 2020 18:52:02 +0000 Received: (at 40561) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Apr 2020 18:51:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58875 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jNhhh-0008Qu-PB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 14:51:37 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:41791) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jNhhg-0008Qh-5C for 40561@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 14:51:36 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:34527) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jNhha-0008O1-ML; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 14:51:30 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3294 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jNhhZ-0003xA-Gp; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 14:51:30 -0400 Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 21:51:17 +0300 Message-Id: <83pncck062.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <83r1wsk0yi.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Sun, 12 Apr 2020 21:34:13 +0300) References: <87ftd9sv8d.fsf@disroot.org> <83d08dks4k.fsf@gnu.org> <87eess36s9.fsf@disroot.org> <83r1wsk0yi.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 21:34:13 +0300 > From: Eli Zaretskii > Cc: 40561@debbugs.gnu.org > > > From: Jorge P. de Morais Neto > > Cc: 40561-done@debbugs.gnu.org, 40561@debbugs.gnu.org > > Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 15:20:22 -0300 > > > > I have just updated Emacs to the latest emacs-27 commit, and, while you > > fixed the description of `C-u C-x m', unfortunately you messed up the > > behavior of plain `C-x m'. According to my quick testing (via `emacs > > -q`), a plain C-x m behaves as previously described in the manual. > > Please elaborate: what previous description was correct that I messed > up? Ah, I see: message-mode behaves differently here from mail-mode (which is what I'm using). Sigh. Should be fixed now. From unknown Sun Jun 22 11:45:49 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#40561: 27.0.90; Mail-related errors in docstrings and manuals Resent-From: Jorge P. de Morais Neto Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 19:02:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 40561 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 40561@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 40561-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B40561.1586718094925 (code B ref 40561); Sun, 12 Apr 2020 19:02:01 +0000 Received: (at 40561) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Apr 2020 19:01:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58884 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jNhrJ-0000Er-Vv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 15:01:34 -0400 Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([178.21.23.139]:36424) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jNhrI-0000Ej-53 for 40561@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 15:01:33 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by disroot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0710220C50; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 21:01:31 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at disroot.org Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (disroot.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xfI-V6Q8dfeo; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 21:01:29 +0200 (CEST) From: Jorge P. de Morais Neto DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=disroot.org; s=mail; t=1586718089; bh=CiV3JsdrR3hyQ7twYGyVoA+brjWy//a6jINgpyLVDDA=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=PO3cnGedKCbGtjhAr/dPkSG1ai5Brl5utweP7m3FphtsdG2nSi1B37r38/qfv/7Wx 3ysOksjM6J9OcY4/n9vyYzkd1QikWEVV4m1fHXo7oSOaq+LqzyysNkXFTaU4Z04ZqI VkX+X7fczhHUmEVtdmVZ9bhnKzBlH1qlhVK+OM01wN/9I5shFDdwxTF9Q8hQGaXRqg ApaTPvDhveEPlMZToFXUZWem6uxxvjBXWcalpYQ/qqUt3tQ4pcijurDHQm24kMlh/0 tQ+dJzINBsdmXQHJPn8S9iPwPuZy77e3sxtj8JtrZaXnBGCq7EevGcHhh4bNKQLAgE ULj9jaza/KNYg== In-Reply-To: <83r1wsk0yi.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87ftd9sv8d.fsf@disroot.org> <83d08dks4k.fsf@gnu.org> <87eess36s9.fsf@disroot.org> <83r1wsk0yi.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 16:01:23 -0300 Message-ID: <87blnw34vw.fsf@disroot.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Em [2020-04-12 dom 21:34:13+0300], Eli Zaretskii escreveu: > I use Rmail. It has only one command: rmail-replay. It uses these > headers according to the precedence described in the manual, AFAICT. > > Maybe Gnus has more "reply" commands, but Gnus has its own manual. Gnus may have its own manual, but still including that brief information in Emacs' manual would help not only Gnus users, but also users of Notmuch and possibly also other popular clients, so it would have good cost-effect. Besides, it would help users understand what effect will `Mail-Followup-To' likely have on the recipient when he replies to a message sent by the Emacs user. I am sorry for insisting so much, so if you still think the manual is clear here, then I will silently accept. Regards -- - - I am Brazilian. I hope my English is correct and I welcome feedback. - Please adopt free/libre formats like PDF, ODF, Org, LaTeX, Opus, WebM and 7z. - Free/libre software for Replicant, LineageOS and Android: https://f-droid.org - [[https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html][What is free software?]] From unknown Sun Jun 22 11:45:49 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#40561: 27.0.90; Mail-related errors in docstrings and manuals Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 20:37:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 40561 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 40561@debbugs.gnu.org, "Jorge P. de Morais Neto" Received: via spool by 40561-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B40561.15867237749721 (code B ref 40561); Sun, 12 Apr 2020 20:37:02 +0000 Received: (at 40561) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Apr 2020 20:36:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58950 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jNjKw-0002Wj-Bl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 16:36:14 -0400 Received: from mail-lf1-f44.google.com ([209.85.167.44]:46144) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jNjKu-0002WU-R7 for 40561@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 16:36:13 -0400 Received: by mail-lf1-f44.google.com with SMTP id m19so5108118lfq.13 for <40561@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 13:36:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=dcyvZKEZK2QZkLTWbtfiFSx7eTV5Tn/gwfUbMkRjK88=; b=Eky2BAwpF4zW5gg0CMub4QcYJxCZ6cVrNkLKPUfFSoJ1/rOODGEKTBI0bLOJR4Ovg4 vKs27CIAqpcq2HhB/UbMekPNfpwJSKUDtis3oOe30OS77vLlthWOv9/TVz0PXuTmg/qD bYf7JYtjCcMf3+wnnzIvePawhc7i+c6+0BOuwDSXCI6e0TNZTu+SejaO6Svjca8cDy11 vZxHbYsqDPJ2jHglOKWf1z6HcDXVNsMPvs2n3ueEosLyv9wWEUFd+ZIYqHpBxpY24NgD bpaz6cwmUtrfkMwOhmwIVYCqltlRbgzDfvqM6s9vGJp6vqjeW+XAtoQJyDCmuXBCRzFE K70g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references :user-agent:date:message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=dcyvZKEZK2QZkLTWbtfiFSx7eTV5Tn/gwfUbMkRjK88=; b=KJu0RSFqkTbkOv/J3Iyrb5JxCfOIbiVpHG/SIWbB1iUH5CFYBIbM1lLU9eHnSwjZYg P9ZMK5WBDK7qojYV3ugfuCjwHYWWh38PBJWQsYEDt+RFy7HvF6ao5+SedymDCszM3Gh6 2uwQtv6COSUg/N6w6ewgVcRdV617Rsm5RhY7ZDF/WNZzcjP36gH7qqlV37HVEcmrc7PN pnj5Ts/oZ4ODxKtfgQhT3ExAeBwd30RUJcWfLrdqgS/C/vb5Cre1j6iAbYoKCRe6imO9 buhHr6wE1VQa3Q7b52P4ohJCnfxpjc7x5w8/5OYJULVo/R9cNh0VNiwXIGAjfIS3hli7 /eEQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PubEIuVNnYBgG9JmHF23MbarWdsO64ZALbIt9Bs/7YHj4KAArqdH qsYPJwHPKAJKWwJpvPuWji8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypKpQf4xJD4S2+fAsVzI/qemdBfL2w1rPVAAZp9GUfmXpPV+KvIJS1nBSu+5kpBDc9KcVLqEHQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:1111:: with SMTP id l17mr8472026lfg.206.1586723766783; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 13:36:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([185.112.167.47]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h22sm5877038ljl.96.2020.04.12.13.36.05 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 12 Apr 2020 13:36:06 -0700 (PDT) From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= In-Reply-To: <83r1wsk0yi.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 12 Apr 2020 21:34:13 +0300") References: <87ftd9sv8d.fsf@disroot.org> <83d08dks4k.fsf@gnu.org> <87eess36s9.fsf@disroot.org> <83r1wsk0yi.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 22:36:41 +0200 Message-ID: <878sj0bfvq.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 2.7 (++) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 21:34:13 +0300 Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> > That section is not about message-mode, it's about sending email. >> > message-mode is just the default mode we use for editing and sending. >> >> I still find the manual a bit misleading. The fi [...] Content analysis details: (2.7 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. 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The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 21:34:13 +0300 Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> > That section is not about message-mode, it's about sending email. >> > message-mode is just the default mode we use for editing and sending. >> >> I still find the manual a bit misleading. The fi [...] Content analysis details: (1.7 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: gnu.org] -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [209.85.167.44 listed in list.dnswl.org] -0.8 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 RBL: Average reputation (+2) [209.85.167.44 listed in wl.mailspike.net] 3.6 RCVD_IN_SBL_CSS RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus SBL-CSS [185.112.167.47 listed in zen.spamhaus.org] 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (stepnem[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -1.0 MAILING_LIST_MULTI Multiple indicators imply a widely-seen list manager On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 21:34:13 +0300 Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> > That section is not about message-mode, it's about sending email. >> > message-mode is just the default mode we use for editing and sending. >>=20 >> I still find the manual a bit misleading. The first sentence of the >> last paragraph of the parent section says: >>=20 >> In this section, we will describe some of the most commonly-used >> commands available in Message mode. >>=20 >> Then the [[info:emacs#Mail Sending]] section says >>=20 >> The variable =E2=80=98message-send-mail-function=E2=80=99 controls h= ow the message is >> delivered (=E2=80=98send-mail-function=E2=80=99 is used for Mail mod= e). >>=20 >> That made me think that people who use Message Mode should set >> =E2=80=98message-send-mail-function=E2=80=99 instead of =E2=80=98send-ma= il-function=E2=80=99. >>=20 >> It is possible that this misunderstanding was caused by bad reading >> comprehension on my part -- and my native (and everyday) language is >> Portuguese. > > I'd be interested to hear opinions by others about this. I agree with Jorge that the quoted section is confusing, and the recent change from bug#39639 (which I've now found when trying to make some sense of it doing 'git blame' on sending.texi) mostly just added to that confusion, as it only stuck `message-send-mail-function' in the middle of the 10-year-old text. https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D39639 It would be great if someone who understands how the current default setup is supposed to fit together had a look at that part of the manual. --=20 =C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n