From unknown Thu Aug 14 21:44:40 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#40460 <40460@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#40460 <40460@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 26.3; Make arg of `forward-whitespace' and `forward-symbol' optional Reply-To: bug#40460 <40460@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2025 04:44:40 +0000 retitle 40460 26.3; Make arg of `forward-whitespace' and `forward-symbol' o= ptional reassign 40460 emacs submitter 40460 Drew Adams severity 40460 wishlist tag 40460 wontfix thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 05 20:32:42 2020 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Apr 2020 00:32:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46928 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jLFgv-000811-TE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 Apr 2020 20:32:42 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:47744) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jLFgt-00080p-MZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; 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Mon, 06 Apr 2020 00:32:34 +0000 Received: from abhmp0020.oracle.com (abhmp0020.oracle.com [141.146.116.26]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 0360WRNL020955 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2020 00:32:33 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2020 17:32:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 26.3; Make arg of `forward-whitespace' and `forward-symbol' optional X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4966.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9582 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=1 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=885 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2004060001 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9582 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 phishscore=0 suspectscore=1 mlxlogscore=962 mlxscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 priorityscore=1501 lowpriorityscore=0 clxscore=1015 malwarescore=0 impostorscore=0 spamscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2004060000 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 156.151.31.85 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) I see no reason why these commands are handled differently from `forward-sexp', `forward-word', etc. Why is their arg not optional? That makes no difference when they are used interactively, but for Lisp code, why not make they be like other `forward-' functions? In GNU Emacs 26.3 (build 1, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2019-08-29 Repository revision: 96dd0196c28bc36779584e47fffcca433c9309cd Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 10.0.18362 Configured using: `configure --without-dbus --host=3Dx86_64-w64-mingw32 --without-compress-install 'CFLAGS=3D-O2 -static -g3'' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 05 21:18:31 2020 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Apr 2020 01:18:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46949 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jLGPH-00020v-HX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 Apr 2020 21:18:31 -0400 Received: from mail-qk1-f179.google.com ([209.85.222.179]:46278) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jLGPG-00020W-Nb for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 Apr 2020 21:18:30 -0400 Received: by mail-qk1-f179.google.com with SMTP id u4so14612037qkj.13 for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2020 18:18:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=s7hHGAdT7J6a+EzNtsJH68NAmWJo/dgpGkKkkoJbsmE=; b=LFVIGJD7Wc0VpqOxg/FgpZxXABtpQImjxldgsO03A4nUlMkRDjQRk83xcn7vBDWSYd v9QGfhi0/yFb7+X19C5A/R26l8iH4PNnnQQ6q6200rUpJWuPLDNt1VJAhEE2yXsPTVGo yk8DWxH4TdXHmSILKwBjtuhFgBuvRUWTlisNbyKiKaDMFfF0G99lnIdaqMmsq+JlL+k1 Dyh8fu+d+QO1IdW9I3oKM5AzSiegooxBaX8c/7JLgTduH7GLKNeSLBmzAeszDN/vLb5U zRVmtfaeyvWILZMr6tHH6QGVpRzQjdI1n8iLzmjP9wo8IpBUtRr54P76WZskTeG2aeES iSzA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=s7hHGAdT7J6a+EzNtsJH68NAmWJo/dgpGkKkkoJbsmE=; b=Pd1gHSJ/5KsjkYA68iYe5aKmWivMeS0/Z4EOngr89J8acIMDs/gJZtMd3dMEWZeV7b 6Tm51R4+U3GiW0ZRc1AZRq+wwWAZhvlRpgjINB7TyzcMyKcUPhEIw0PqxKrKWigmLtW5 J7yMGBmQzyEe7heKPezDp3VpRr1P4kKcNjQ7bQ6TPXyGn+3sEvUtXfy3GIHh7VImnGU9 Tto7Z8ddiEn91DF938z0I+or8qyVuiCtyVodhCRdDnUTR+cwqlpbFIqUwNqF9rfMEXb1 EeXRPwR3jKsyIvtMFZ29H5mKouFwwIGgWqpbRJ1UCV+L4WCcuZ7xS5GydwZastLGBVK6 0rug== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PubdP7FbUP5WoppTwMgCox9/DBc2ks/IoX03mdusModjGDymUy2Y OS0da/O6kZbgNedFQ8Xnn/EcGp4Z X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypL8cQJTmbWAoOfJoPeNn5U2/K8noLDy63uv841cGyV09sjwAsqDYOgzEXrPN0XwkqR8JBkvjg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:1284:: with SMTP id w4mr3136104qki.230.1586135905203; Sun, 05 Apr 2020 18:18:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from minid (cbl-45-2-119-47.yyz.frontiernetworks.ca. [45.2.119.47]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k2sm13491045qte.16.2020.04.05.18.18.24 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sun, 05 Apr 2020 18:18:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Noam Postavsky To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: control message for bug #40460 Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2020 21:18:24 -0400 Message-ID: <87blo5h0nz.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) forcemerge 25439 40460 quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Mar 01 10:38:10 2021 Received: (at 40460) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Mar 2021 15:38:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50444 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lGkcc-0007HW-7F for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2021 10:38:10 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:44310) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lGkca-0007HE-8s; Mon, 01 Mar 2021 10:38:08 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=No8qK1/HMMUQZXmecCEl8UR+n9m64l0j7GfcAWHTZxk=; b=SfYAfckJvWUmFHGWM9N1lxiX9P 1o8My1nPiTf27I+QwK0A0uOoJZem+mYHQU5sdNtjm12QuGrQSZRSI/S6yeHznPPp3iSxx9BNU0wCw DjkMLrLES+LjTfkXhxl5KTXl8FphEVcWsFiH5QtZUV0WgQrYXjmxaK5KXcU5Mb/GGLrk=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lGkcR-0003F2-2s; Mon, 01 Mar 2021 16:38:01 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#40460: 26.3; Make arg of `forward-whitespace' and `forward-symbol' optional References: <218b8b86-40aa-4f43-b967-31a6759db97d@default> X-Now-Playing: Stephen Mallinder's _Um Dada_: "Flashback" Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2021 16:37:58 +0100 In-Reply-To: <218b8b86-40aa-4f43-b967-31a6759db97d@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Fri, 13 Jan 2017 08:49:03 -0800 (PST)") Message-ID: <87r1ky51gp.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Drew Adams writes: > The numeric argument to most `forward-*' commands is optional, > defaulting to 1. This should be the case in general. These three > commands require their ARG, but they should not. It should be > op [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40460 Cc: 25439@debbugs.gnu.org, 40460@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Drew Adams writes: > The numeric argument to most `forward-*' commands is optional, > defaulting to 1. This should be the case in general. These three > commands require their ARG, but they should not. It should be > optional and default to 1. > > `forward-button' > `forward-symbol' > `forward-whitespace' It's true that this is somewhat inconsistent -- but I also think it's a mistake that the other `forward-*' functions have an optional argument. So I don't think making these follow that pattern is a move in the right direction, and I'm closing this bug report. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Mar 01 10:38:16 2021 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Mar 2021 15:38:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50449 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lGkci-0007Hx-3M for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2021 10:38:16 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:44324) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lGkcg-0007HU-TD for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2021 10:38:15 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=SD4ctA1TxVXFCB8q+gWoYjjjUt8cVY9ESsXcWtmdB94=; b=MXXh3gxNLbkYmOsjImxc6Fjmq9 oQ3Spht49mJVZCaIxqDGC4lMTeEIk/hIuXtbS8wMjffHDnUgsraE4vN9MfGlzgLMlpGtlvx0atc7Z usQtBuZzWaLepVKJVKguN52tYBUhuPkJKffzaSlFDZm4LcBbCIBeY7KKheyHeDlD/ZkI=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lGkcZ-0003FG-BY for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2021 16:38:09 +0100 Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2021 16:38:06 +0100 Message-Id: <87pn0i51gh.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #40460 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 40460 wontfix close 40460 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 40460 wontfix close 40460 quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Mar 01 11:12:19 2021 Received: (at 40460) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Mar 2021 16:12:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50560 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lGl9f-0003xr-Jf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 409135c4-23b0-4fd2-f5e6-08d8dcccc295 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 01 Mar 2021 16:12:06.8762 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: HZyDZAktlHZqFJL2s7Aty5bMeIBHveTVP3w+dFbHQxmjxhl45hlCTB+pLNcPmcMsHT0C/8hoAIPp9MNVoLtryQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SN6PR10MB2799 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6200 definitions=9910 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 suspectscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2103010133 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6200 definitions=9910 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 impostorscore=0 clxscore=1011 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 lowpriorityscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2103010133 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40460 Cc: "25439@debbugs.gnu.org" <25439@debbugs.gnu.org>, "40460@debbugs.gnu.org" <40460@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > The numeric argument to most `forward-*' commands is optional, > > defaulting to 1. This should be the case in general. These three > > commands require their ARG, but they should not. It should be > > optional and default to 1. > > > > `forward-button' > > `forward-symbol' > > `forward-whitespace' >=20 > It's true that this is somewhat inconsistent -- but I also think it's a > mistake that the other `forward-*' functions have an optional argument. Why do you think so? It's not just vanilla Emacs that defines `forward-*' commands. Users are encouraged to do so as well. The point of thingatpt.el (as one example) is to leverage `forward-*' functions to identify things at point. If 3rd-party code and users define `forward-*' functions they get free support for identifying the `*' things from `thingatpt.el'. So it's important that a convention be more or less followed in the definition of `forward-*' commands. And yes, defaulting to 1 is exactly what Emacs does, for all kinds of motion (and other!) commands. Why have `interactive' default but not also let Elisp calls default? For Lisp, defaulting means the arg is optional. This is exactly what Emacs does for this kind of thing. It always has, since Day One. There's an inconsistency here, and instead of fixing it - the right way (to fit the rest of Emacs) or even the wrong way (to fit what you apparently think is better - no defaulting), you prefer to keep the inconsistency. The question is why? > So I don't think making these follow that pattern is a move in the > right direction, and I'm closing this bug report. The question is why you don't think following the Emacs pattern is right. From unknown Thu Aug 14 21:44:40 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 11:24:09 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator