From unknown Sun Jun 22 11:34:14 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#40011 <40011@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#40011 <40011@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: Remove unnecessary abbreviations from documentation Reply-To: bug#40011 <40011@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2025 18:34:14 +0000 retitle 40011 Remove unnecessary abbreviations from documentation reassign 40011 emacs submitter 40011 Stefan Kangas severity 40011 wishlist thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Mar 10 09:54:42 2020 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Mar 2020 13:54:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52038 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jBfLG-0006Zh-Aw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Mar 2020 09:54:42 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:41725) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jBfLE-0006ZY-ND for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Mar 2020 09:54:41 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34849) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jBfLD-0004yN-EF for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 10 Mar 2020 09:54:40 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jBfLC-0004B1-B4 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 10 Mar 2020 09:54:39 -0400 Received: from mail-yw1-f45.google.com ([209.85.161.45]:43031) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jBfLC-00046K-6j for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 10 Mar 2020 09:54:38 -0400 Received: by mail-yw1-f45.google.com with SMTP id p69so13633668ywh.10 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 2020 06:54:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=+TNcqkxfKAbGfKnIEr2t5UoypqnNxCUYpBexaNUEOnU=; b=CWAVl5phfwYhdrugGUe56FQ/v5CcAb/Pdpu5NHZZ8NDJBghPLoTAqzVHvEivMV1Hsf N1E1qmCMD5r3sg0n1JND/ZOmiIivvU6hLf3QnxHdCbRREYzf9XCj6op0iPHqRTAh1Hvj r1WYucRFUwYg645RQ1+nBmI1im2MQL+0Z5txVmKzYkppUlSDuHTxfC2NoSInzFAoknZ2 B1YoLnIPbrRTnfMUfxLIxayQV+juwBHh6EO3CCAgS3w/j0VYloAw0oIkk5+sEd62hmkq wzeVk3VDzkwuimcYU+CYxl7op5M4bcfT6Wdli5V7+vcWVBEToBi8U9QTFYGN1/uWuPp2 mBEA== X-Gm-Message-State: ANhLgQ11yvvWE5ne4tfY5rIRYY2CS2CjHa2+x9gCVZwBZAGRPHsr6TXQ eWoBy9cgWqtmX8hGUI426ImSDxIVhlywEfYKTIMcx0gHp4Y= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADFU+vt32evT8kgrSI999ZgJr8RdpCWytsBMamU8lkxZ/hLYwr3OKCyvjopGgG0dMsuaI8ofarUsgwk1DvcqpUzQWw8= X-Received: by 2002:a25:d3d0:: with SMTP id e199mr25187827ybf.43.1583848476174; Tue, 10 Mar 2020 06:54:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Stefan Kangas Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2020 14:54:25 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Remove unnecessary abbreviations from documentation To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 209.85.161.45 X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-CC: Richard Stallman Writing for Computer Science (2004) by Justin Zobel says: "It is often tempting to use abbreviations such as 'no.', 'i.e.', 'e.g.' 'c.f.' and 'w.r.t.' These save little space on the page, but slow readers down. It is almost always desirable to expand these abbreviations, to 'number', 'that is', 'for example', 'compared with' (or more accurately 'in contrast to', since that is the sense in which 'c.f.' should be used), and 'with respect to', or synonyms of these expressions. Where such abbreviations are used, the punctuation should be as if the expanded form were used. Also consider expanding abbreviations such as 'Fig.' and 'Alg.' and don't use concoctions such as '1st' or '2nd'. Months should not be abbreviated. Make sure that all abbreviations and acronyms are explained when they are first used." (page 57) Please consider removing the following acronyms from the documentation, both the manual(s) and doc strings: 1. no. ("number") 2. e.g. ("for example") 3. i.e. ("that is", "namely", etc.) 4. c.f. ("in contrast to", "compared with", etc.) 5. w.r.t. ("with respect to") Please also consider adding a guideline to avoid them where possible. I think we should not do this in a blanket fashion, however, but treat each case individually. For example, it seems to me that it's a good idea to be much more lenient in tables, where space may be a serious concern. If anyone has any suggestions for other abbreviations that could perhaps be avoided, please add them to the list. Any comments? Best regards, Stefan Kangas PS. For further background, see Bug#39778: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=39778 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Mar 10 10:50:15 2020 Received: (at 40011) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Mar 2020 14:50:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53064 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jBgD0-0001jX-5c for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Mar 2020 10:50:15 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40482) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jBgCw-0001jC-Ev for 40011@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Mar 2020 10:50:12 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:37212) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jBgCr-0006dt-1J; Tue, 10 Mar 2020 10:50:05 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1738 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jBgCj-00078c-Cr; Tue, 10 Mar 2020 10:49:57 -0400 Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2020 16:49:59 +0200 Message-Id: <83v9nc9sdk.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Tue, 10 Mar 2020 14:54:25 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#40011: Remove unnecessary abbreviations from documentation References: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40011 Cc: 40011@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2020 14:54:25 +0100 > Cc: richard stallman > > Please consider removing the following acronyms from the > documentation, both the manual(s) and doc strings: > > 1. no. ("number") > 2. e.g. ("for example") > 3. i.e. ("that is", "namely", etc.) > 4. c.f. ("in contrast to", "compared with", etc.) > 5. w.r.t. ("with respect to") Let's not be too extreme: I'm against removing "e.g." and "i.e." at the least. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 27 02:05:45 2020 Received: (at 40011) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Apr 2020 06:05:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35367 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jSwtl-0000jJ-IP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 02:05:45 -0400 Received: from ted.gofardesign.uk ([67.225.143.91]:55024) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jSwtj-0000j4-GF for 40011@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 02:05:43 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=marxist.se; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=0KGzlucgla2xk4/V7AeX6Ymk53NsRMXZu7IKC84Y3Ls=; b=ZrdT+ZzfWYQO5VtXBNr3F5Hz1P xP2WaL/uOBobRD9LMCBFy3VsCAB1b/x03Fg9sDnjt+ZFeEBSqaZuPUza6lFRcC6EXv2GloWlWAZ2n +wVvY947C4X2XEnzW+woS9ZYMvE8CHoKbPfg8hOTSH/pPeZroIRcCggJ8qlTD9GPNlyLOa9NF3ZYU HiMOjJ3GqXqC0mpNG2DEjSAUxvRYqK20/S7DzQG9dp6dqyf1hZ/fpsABIFoVxjaY08xzvu+oKg168 zcuS3IE+ZtjxS9aLodJppDpSv5JqPeD/J2fcsQGaHHOfhyJYINxBUUPMP8tyBBhmKvUUsS/e67lOj b7crllUg==; Received: from h-4-70-69.a785.priv.bahnhof.se ([155.4.70.69]:55594 helo=localhost) by ted.gofardesign.uk with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1jSwtc-000tMi-TW; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 02:05:37 -0400 From: Stefan Kangas To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#40011: Remove unnecessary abbreviations from documentation In-Reply-To: <83v9nc9sdk.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 10 Mar 2020 16:49:59 +0200") References: <83v9nc9sdk.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 08:05:34 +0200 Message-ID: <878siha2fl.fsf@stefankangas.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ted.gofardesign.uk X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - marxist.se X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: ted.gofardesign.uk: authenticated_id: stefan@marxist.se X-Authenticated-Sender: ted.gofardesign.uk: stefan@marxist.se X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40011 Cc: 40011@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Please consider removing the following acronyms from the >> documentation, both the manual(s) and doc strings: >> >> 1. no. ("number") >> 2. e.g. ("for example") >> 3. i.e. ("that is", "namely", etc.) >> 4. c.f. ("in contrast to", "compared with", etc.) >> 5. w.r.t. ("with respect to") > > Let's not be too extreme: I'm against removing "e.g." and "i.e." at > the least. There are many such instances to get right, so maybe we can find a way forward which avoids changing all of them. How about adding something along the lines of the attached patch, and leave it at that? Would that be acceptable? Best regards, Stefan Kangas --=-=-= Content-Type: text/x-diff Content-Disposition: inline; filename=0001-Recommend-avoiding-unnecessary-abbreviations-in-doc.patch >From a44c03f6a2b2b98b34b4c7836e3291fd2c458190 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Stefan Kangas Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 07:53:10 +0200 Subject: [PATCH] Recommend avoiding unnecessary abbreviations in doc * doc/lispref/tips.texi (Documentation Tips): Recommend avoiding unnecessary abbreviations. (Bug#40011)a --- doc/lispref/tips.texi | 6 ++++++ 1 file changed, 6 insertions(+) diff --git a/doc/lispref/tips.texi b/doc/lispref/tips.texi index 3b8da35b6c..382e6d7c61 100644 --- a/doc/lispref/tips.texi +++ b/doc/lispref/tips.texi @@ -820,6 +820,12 @@ Documentation Tips most cases, the meaning is clear with just ``if''. Otherwise, try to find an alternate phrasing that conveys the meaning. +@item +Avoid abbreviations like ``e.g.'' (for ``for example''), ``i.e.'' (for +``that is''), ``no.'' (for ``number''), ``c.f.'' (for ``in contrast +to'') and ``w.r.t.'' (for ``with respect to''). It is almost always +both more clear and easier to read the expanded version. + @item When a command is meaningful only in a certain mode or situation, do mention that in the documentation string. For example, -- 2.26.2 --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 27 10:39:31 2020 Received: (at 40011) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Apr 2020 14:39:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37774 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jT4ux-0008Kg-3P for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 10:39:31 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:53782) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jT4uv-0008KU-OA for 40011@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 10:39:30 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:36820) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jT4uq-0007hG-EN; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 10:39:24 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2103 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jT4ug-0007Qr-1l; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 10:39:14 -0400 Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 17:39:09 +0300 Message-Id: <83wo613sdu.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <878siha2fl.fsf@stefankangas.se> (message from Stefan Kangas on Mon, 27 Apr 2020 08:05:34 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#40011: Remove unnecessary abbreviations from documentation References: <83v9nc9sdk.fsf@gnu.org> <878siha2fl.fsf@stefankangas.se> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40011 Cc: 40011@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Cc: 40011@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org > Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 08:05:34 +0200 > > > Let's not be too extreme: I'm against removing "e.g." and "i.e." at > > the least. > > There are many such instances to get right, so maybe we can find a way > forward which avoids changing all of them. > > How about adding something along the lines of the attached patch, and > leave it at that? Would that be acceptable? > [...] > +@item > +Avoid abbreviations like ``e.g.'' (for ``for example''), ``i.e.'' (for > +``that is''), ``no.'' (for ``number''), ``c.f.'' (for ``in contrast > +to'') and ``w.r.t.'' (for ``with respect to''). It is almost always > +both more clear and easier to read the expanded version. It would be fine with me, but there are a lot of pedants out there, and I'd rather we avoided bug reports telling us "why don't you do as you say and remove all the e.g.'s from your own manuals." I'd like to avoid the endless disputes such bug reports tend to cause. So could you make the above even less definitive, either by saying "Try to avoid using abbreviations like ... as much as possible." Maybe even add a footnote saying something like "We do occasionally use these, but try not to overdo it.". OK? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 27 12:10:37 2020 Received: (at 40011) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Apr 2020 16:10:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37956 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jT6L6-00074C-P4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:10:36 -0400 Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:37522) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jT6L4-00073s-I1 for 40011@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:10:35 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 03RG9DdK112537; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 16:10:28 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=gDTxIE5QheoytZ+SQKjjM01xQkBZxHUdshxfQsLKWP4=; b=ozCN8Qe66gGZXXbIC9EwM7ZopcDjLm98G8NBhE1Z3lHhy+CLd2ZmWHNFkgqmDOD3m/+a 8xfWxiBoXSIE5AfktOkmIMZBGCdOyVqdyTUR2xmG+lMpr3wpHOVokKSRPiIHB4+7kErW mTH5FdgCMywDrFlzNbFJg1JZM2jGkD38GDGSxnZ++qY6uRrRIj7Zo9niF0bYUgdOcLAb S0u92IdSM2oOFqAZACTKJpHgnpAXvVT9MfbkDrEj6guBesHDIqQiEpsIbFBSPF/pV6a6 xYeUhb7cejfbGS0CS6cVNEHg0RdWJ7kgmZCdbmz+MlHz2XdBlEF4bNw5Wk6JGg0/0FV3 lw== Received: from aserp3020.oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [141.146.126.70]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30p01nh3wb-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Apr 2020 16:10:28 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 03RG79F0053537; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 16:08:27 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30my09ufd4-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Apr 2020 16:08:27 +0000 Received: from abhmp0019.oracle.com (abhmp0019.oracle.com [141.146.116.25]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 03RG8PEb021724; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 16:08:25 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <6a987722-81fb-47b2-9ab8-52d885fa27ab@default> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 09:08:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Stefan Kangas , Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: bug#40011: Remove unnecessary abbreviations from documentation References: <83v9nc9sdk.fsf@gnu.org> <878siha2fl.fsf@stefankangas.se> In-Reply-To: <878siha2fl.fsf@stefankangas.se> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4993.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9604 signatures=668686 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=940 bulkscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2004270132 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9604 signatures=668686 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2004270132 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40011 Cc: 40011@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > There are many such instances to get right, so maybe we can find a way > forward which avoids changing all of them. >=20 > How about adding something along the lines of the attached patch, and > leave it at that? Would that be acceptable? (minor nit) * "like" -> "such as" * "more clear" -> "clearer" From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 27 12:21:55 2020 Received: (at 40011) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Apr 2020 16:21:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37976 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jT6W3-0007Rh-2p for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:21:55 -0400 Received: from ted.gofardesign.uk ([67.225.143.91]:54030) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jT6Vy-0007RL-CN for 40011@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:21:50 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=marxist.se; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=5jk+OvBAjfNhiNNKbeEDg7okJwoqLWu6qB+tnoiieQU=; b=tQ+byo+SIbh4rKGpwO4ffcw4Fl 1hdmQ1VchsXWAQSRcr99WfXKvzrhG+9wEP7c8akm2UVNre+xkKWMqZSWFwL44sQMnX5wQvn++JYeF x2958qTF8+TKB6px5ggjpBVrM22Pk4TjjqxOtoFH1a3lT31FNp/w1hiM2Js/jIL4X4BrQ6MwZMD0W 3SjW6JnM9N+RPPq6F4lc8KM2bfUhvkZViRYyBy+Q+2zLVRImLr9O+h1fYVz6hVulViTUOD//a2qGv Z4VpuOCbfxFk+8uRYvdqad7q1ape5FTHHhijzMuYpTfxhCXv4Ib4LTNf8llqFi/S/FprQ8c9ucNIk Iv1eDN8g==; Received: from h-4-70-69.a785.priv.bahnhof.se ([155.4.70.69]:41764 helo=localhost) by ted.gofardesign.uk with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1jT6Vr-0010vm-Nc; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:21:43 -0400 From: Stefan Kangas To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#40011: Remove unnecessary abbreviations from documentation In-Reply-To: <6a987722-81fb-47b2-9ab8-52d885fa27ab@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 27 Apr 2020 09:08:24 -0700 (PDT)") References: <83v9nc9sdk.fsf@gnu.org> <878siha2fl.fsf@stefankangas.se> <6a987722-81fb-47b2-9ab8-52d885fa27ab@default> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:21:41 +0200 Message-ID: <87lfmg99wq.fsf@stefankangas.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ted.gofardesign.uk X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - marxist.se X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: ted.gofardesign.uk: authenticated_id: stefan@marxist.se X-Authenticated-Sender: ted.gofardesign.uk: stefan@marxist.se X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40011 Cc: 40011@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , rms@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Drew Adams writes: >> There are many such instances to get right, so maybe we can find a way >> forward which avoids changing all of them. >> >> How about adding something along the lines of the attached patch, and >> leave it at that? Would that be acceptable? > > (minor nit) > > * "like" -> "such as" > * "more clear" -> "clearer" Thanks. As you might know, English is a second language for me so I really appreciate this kind of input. Best regards, Stefan Kangas From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 27 12:41:23 2020 Received: (at 40011) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Apr 2020 16:41:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38007 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jT6ot-00084a-E8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:41:23 -0400 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:59712) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jT6or-00084K-Jy for 40011@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:41:22 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 03RGfF6M026162; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 16:41:15 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=Jo4sAAkmtotu2Sc5NA05G9oRRw++Pj6k0RA7GCE3Edc=; b=OajVw/1aPX0xd9MBC1lNlebkoYdOGTZJk8lJf4iOTXLvUHRASsBxXd72vuFfs3qmW3Ot kRMP/j/pTuWEOp0Op82o4z60Fky9vATbezUQYVsEF7EOYCiJoryEuEOVz0v+QiqFhE3w sqr1rhnCJuTHxLO3Z5FzoLNTmutNPolHiL5119iso9QoTw0ceXoEzKmYChrWX7pvfK0b 9hRYCKGPEK+76MjIiQ8wS3wV9OriWcEnbt3k0ApeDey9K74Q5K4JsVIXquZjQLAqJDAE 1LrMolERvFL1cVpwK1980mEarYPaChUlZjejZS7vHl+KBiYCGbnSeR31OfgEdvyFWIwz lQ== Received: from aserp3030.oracle.com (aserp3030.oracle.com [141.146.126.71]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30nucftr8t-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Apr 2020 16:41:15 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 03RGcBjG149032; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 16:41:15 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30mxrqn8de-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Apr 2020 16:41:15 +0000 Received: from abhmp0014.oracle.com (abhmp0014.oracle.com [141.146.116.20]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 03RGfDsn020562; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 16:41:13 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <920f1068-b0c7-4c40-92fa-4ad219b3dd07@default> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 09:41:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Stefan Kangas Subject: RE: bug#40011: Remove unnecessary abbreviations from documentation References: <83v9nc9sdk.fsf@gnu.org> <878siha2fl.fsf@stefankangas.se> <6a987722-81fb-47b2-9ab8-52d885fa27ab@default> <87lfmg99wq.fsf@stefankangas.se> In-Reply-To: <87lfmg99wq.fsf@stefankangas.se> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4993.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9604 signatures=668686 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 malwarescore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2004270135 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9604 signatures=668686 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 clxscore=1015 priorityscore=1501 mlxlogscore=999 impostorscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2004270135 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40011 Cc: 40011@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , rms@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > (minor nit) > > > > * "like" -> "such as" > > * "more clear" -> "clearer" >=20 > Thanks. As you might know, English is a > second language for me so I really > appreciate this kind of input. You're welcome. And this is very minor. Colloquially many (most?) people use "like" when they really mean "such as". The difference is that "such as" includes those explicit examples - it says "these and others (like them)"; whereas "like" says "things similar to these things". "Like" doesn't explicitly include those things; it says to use them to get an idea of what kind of things might be included. 1. The award was given to people like George Washington. 2. The award was given to people such as George Washington. #1 says that people with characteristics like GW got the award. #2 says that GW is an example of the people who got the award. In case #2, GW got the award. --- There's nothing wrong with "more clear". But "clearer" is usually clearer. ;-) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 27 13:08:32 2020 Received: (at 40011) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Apr 2020 17:08:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38023 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jT7FA-0000Pd-2w for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 13:08:32 -0400 Received: from ted.gofardesign.uk ([67.225.143.91]:33980) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jT7F9-0000PM-1n for 40011@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 13:08:31 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=marxist.se; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=yADtZdG7q9WYmPSF1ek7vNhYZjNnZLXYC/Gaqcomr4Q=; b=r6VZlrC+80EPIqoG5c/SBb5Jf+ R4ikMGiy1Z2JoQR5Syi8aBCcrqlnV6yzHibetdJPEgJVOFoLGZbaEToyXm1xGaXh0haMj+Y8PFETw ww182xO3lk4JeahrrsuKdqwWEWPjaZwyn4cZYwzvZ2Pt6lZStnV49nx2ycDwqMMCThNRvFlzNKmLF B6nODbT/ptJX6Usj6TUeJlPyqDf97V0QFIOeKyBAywI714JUzUccarq2UUX8oFoMMoCmSl3ew3F7n XAJRr0DNdwqDTdp69Znx3P7uHvO4tWB0XGjOtFHU8zSYlOvNcUys4vSzbT5x6CQTSZtX0H/6oIeuN BmSNVgFA==; Received: from h-4-70-69.a785.priv.bahnhof.se ([155.4.70.69]:54318 helo=localhost) by ted.gofardesign.uk with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1jT7F1-001CID-EU; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 13:08:23 -0400 From: Stefan Kangas To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#40011: Remove unnecessary abbreviations from documentation In-Reply-To: <83wo613sdu.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 27 Apr 2020 17:39:09 +0300") References: <83v9nc9sdk.fsf@gnu.org> <878siha2fl.fsf@stefankangas.se> <83wo613sdu.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 19:08:21 +0200 Message-ID: <87h7x497qy.fsf@stefankangas.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ted.gofardesign.uk X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - marxist.se X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: ted.gofardesign.uk: authenticated_id: stefan@marxist.se X-Authenticated-Sender: ted.gofardesign.uk: stefan@marxist.se X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40011 Cc: 40011@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Eli Zaretskii writes: > It would be fine with me, but there are a lot of pedants out there, > and I'd rather we avoided bug reports telling us "why don't you do as > you say and remove all the e.g.'s from your own manuals." I'd like to > avoid the endless disputes such bug reports tend to cause. > > So could you make the above even less definitive, either by saying > > "Try to avoid using abbreviations like ... as much as possible." > > Maybe even add a footnote saying something like "We do occasionally > use these, but try not to overdo it.". > > OK? Yes, that makes sense, thanks. Please see the attached patch with your suggestions (and Drew's input) incorporated. Best regards, Stefan Kangas --=-=-= Content-Type: text/x-diff Content-Disposition: inline; filename=0001-Recommend-to-avoid-unnecessary-abbreviations-in-doc.patch >From f9ece19a97066e4861f4b58631a588d30aa7999b Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Stefan Kangas Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 07:53:10 +0200 Subject: [PATCH] Recommend to avoid unnecessary abbreviations in doc * doc/lispref/tips.texi (Documentation Tips): Recommend to avoid unnecessary abbreviations. (Bug#40011) --- doc/lispref/tips.texi | 8 ++++++++ 1 file changed, 8 insertions(+) diff --git a/doc/lispref/tips.texi b/doc/lispref/tips.texi index 3b8da35b6c..5b09b2ccea 100644 --- a/doc/lispref/tips.texi +++ b/doc/lispref/tips.texi @@ -820,6 +820,14 @@ Documentation Tips most cases, the meaning is clear with just ``if''. Otherwise, try to find an alternate phrasing that conveys the meaning. +@item +Try to avoid using abbreviations such as ``e.g.'' (for ``for +example''), ``i.e.'' (for ``that is''), ``no.'' (for ``number''), +``c.f.'' (for ``in contrast to'') and ``w.r.t.'' (for ``with respect +to'') as much as possible. It is almost always clearer and easier to +read the expanded version.@footnote{We do use these occasionally, but +try not to overdo it.} + @item When a command is meaningful only in a certain mode or situation, do mention that in the documentation string. For example, -- 2.26.2 --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 27 14:31:09 2020 Received: (at 40011) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Apr 2020 18:31:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38139 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jT8X6-0004pP-NV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 14:31:09 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:33910) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jT8X4-0004p0-Ny for 40011@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 14:31:07 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:41850) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jT8Wz-0006hj-Fh; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 14:31:01 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4413 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jT8Wq-0000lF-Hc; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 14:30:53 -0400 Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 21:30:46 +0300 Message-Id: <83ftco4w89.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <87h7x497qy.fsf@stefankangas.se> (message from Stefan Kangas on Mon, 27 Apr 2020 19:08:21 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#40011: Remove unnecessary abbreviations from documentation References: <83v9nc9sdk.fsf@gnu.org> <878siha2fl.fsf@stefankangas.se> <83wo613sdu.fsf@gnu.org> <87h7x497qy.fsf@stefankangas.se> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40011 Cc: 40011@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Cc: 40011@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org > Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 19:08:21 +0200 > > > So could you make the above even less definitive, either by saying > > > > "Try to avoid using abbreviations like ... as much as possible." > > > > Maybe even add a footnote saying something like "We do occasionally > > use these, but try not to overdo it.". > > > > OK? > > Yes, that makes sense, thanks. Please see the attached patch with > your suggestions (and Drew's input) incorporated. Thanks, this is fine by me. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 27 22:47:06 2020 Received: (at 40011) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Apr 2020 02:47:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38515 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTGH4-00075X-D8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:47:06 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40674) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTGH3-000709-AW for 40011@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:47:05 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:49687) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTGGx-0002V4-LE; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:46:59 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jTGGu-0006G8-TS; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:46:57 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <83wo613sdu.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Mon, 27 Apr 2020 17:39:09 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#40011: Remove unnecessary abbreviations from documentation References: <83v9nc9sdk.fsf@gnu.org> <878siha2fl.fsf@stefankangas.se> <83wo613sdu.fsf@gnu.org> Message-Id: Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:46:56 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40011 Cc: 40011@debbugs.gnu.org, stefan@marxist.se X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > "Try to avoid using abbreviations like ... as much as possible." > Maybe even add a footnote saying something like "We do occasionally > use these, but try not to overdo it.". We could even say, "We intend to replace these abbreviations, but we are not in a desperate hurry." -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 27 22:50:05 2020 Received: (at 40011) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Apr 2020 02:50:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38531 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTGJx-0007Ry-Le for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:50:05 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:41108) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTGJq-0007RD-W7 for 40011@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:49:59 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:49762) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTGJl-0003iX-KP; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:49:53 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jTGJj-0006gI-Aw; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:49:51 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <878siha2fl.fsf@stefankangas.se> (message from Stefan Kangas on Mon, 27 Apr 2020 08:05:34 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#40011: Remove unnecessary abbreviations from documentation References: <83v9nc9sdk.fsf@gnu.org> <878siha2fl.fsf@stefankangas.se> Message-Id: Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:49:51 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40011 Cc: 40011@debbugs.gnu.org, eliz@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > How about adding something along the lines of the attached patch, and > leave it at that? Would that be acceptable? I agree with it. -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Apr 30 12:05:28 2020 Received: (at 40011) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2020 16:05:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47510 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jUBgm-0007yy-Nr for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 12:05:28 -0400 Received: from ted.gofardesign.uk ([67.225.143.91]:51708) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jUBgj-0007yd-El; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 12:05:26 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=marxist.se; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Lsu2VQnWG3EWmaO8mZ3X6ENYpXvt1ILAoiFUr310u7c=; b=PF3EeR6hXGp6oWeGG6g0uQvlvU ub5pl/Gw6Z1Kdv3URZdtiPBerhjQWzE83tDaidb9uLSkBaSw/MbHgiBkM6vPYEC6eUvlRmPIkp17B liJcRNhj8jkLKljHgqQZOK6YuXu3G+63wn7TGYclJKukZ4LiWIcXURgmhxdevus9tpLXLs9cOQQGI cSu7O+H1dOi7y2e/mbrC1EdcBbIq4Ee9zRcQGhqkoT0wnd7punyvHIjg8fhvIYESZdauxrJxfZ6Y5 2fl7Z/NBgQ7gRJWmYVof4iOjwpHQGnuUmzPgIVsPZygTDHEt+Gsa3lcD2EcguwEzudaEmLTaHDeq+ GEQLSW1A==; Received: from h-4-70-69.a785.priv.bahnhof.se ([155.4.70.69]:40514 helo=localhost) by ted.gofardesign.uk with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1jUBgc-0001kZ-Vh; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 12:05:19 -0400 From: Stefan Kangas To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#40011: Remove unnecessary abbreviations from documentation In-Reply-To: <83ftco4w89.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 27 Apr 2020 21:30:46 +0300") References: <83v9nc9sdk.fsf@gnu.org> <878siha2fl.fsf@stefankangas.se> <83wo613sdu.fsf@gnu.org> <87h7x497qy.fsf@stefankangas.se> <83ftco4w89.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 18:05:16 +0200 Message-ID: <875zdh6jsz.fsf@stefankangas.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ted.gofardesign.uk X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - marxist.se X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: ted.gofardesign.uk: authenticated_id: stefan@marxist.se X-Authenticated-Sender: ted.gofardesign.uk: stefan@marxist.se X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 40011 Cc: 40011@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) close 40011 27.1 thanks Eli Zaretskii writes: > Thanks, this is fine by me. Now pushed to emacs-27 as commit 1d477a0fec. Closing. Best regards, Stefan Kangas From unknown Sun Jun 22 11:34:14 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 11:24:04 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator