From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 29 19:17:05 2020 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Mar 2020 00:17:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35578 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j8CI5-0003jQ-DG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 29 Feb 2020 19:17:05 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:41366) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j8CI4-0003jJ-7G for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 29 Feb 2020 19:17:04 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42199) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1j8CI2-00015U-W1 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 29 Feb 2020 19:17:04 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1j8CI1-0001HN-Oc for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 29 Feb 2020 19:17:02 -0500 Received: from caracal.birch.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.209.30]:49771) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1j8CI1-0001HA-CV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 29 Feb 2020 19:17:01 -0500 X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B19CE9205E9 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 2020 00:16:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a89.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-0-15.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.0.15]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 440FD920868 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 2020 00:16:58 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a89.g.dreamhost.com ([TEMPUNAVAIL]. [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.18.5); Sun, 01 Mar 2020 00:16:58 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Bottle-Madly: 4c4aaf881f6837c9_1583021818510_1813525493 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1583021818509:370848061 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1583021818509 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a89.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a89.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C00CF7F0CD for ; Sat, 29 Feb 2020 16:16:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=jidanni.org; h=from:to :subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type; s= jidanni.org; bh=X9ISKaeV45bGYq/VtjYt7N4l074=; b=ZaaceEA3oMTCK4jX 7vFXGJi06wHIahko7ccwDQF1WLgrzgMnZEGjqowVihBAAyY0lTtZxWHnRlwoaoeX R08WAjoQ6yJF2NSox5DtZM3MxdxwBnLMEkplbgQmSI0NVQ+/sLje229xAHf4zk95 Z48Fe4mY16HzL7eHYgGHXc1xK5Q= Received: from jidanni.org (1-170-80-55.dynamic-ip.hinet.net [1.170.80.55]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jidanni@jidanni.org) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a89.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3A77E7F499 for ; Sat, 29 Feb 2020 16:16:56 -0800 (PST) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a89 From: =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: Document how users can make text-zoom keys same as browser Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2020 07:06:25 +0800 Message-ID: <877e05hu32.5.fsf@jidanni.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: 0 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedugedruddtuddgudekucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuggftfghnshhusghstghrihgsvgdpffftgfetoffjqffuvfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefhvffufffkgggtsehttdertddttdejnecuhfhrohhmpejnnjjnucffrghnucflrggtohgsshhonhcuoehjihgurghnnhhisehjihgurghnnhhirdhorhhgqeenucfkphepuddrudejtddrkedtrdehheenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhhouggvpehsmhhtphdphhgvlhhopehjihgurghnnhhirdhorhhgpdhinhgvthepuddrudejtddrkedtrdehhedprhgvthhurhhnqdhprghthheppeeruhhtfhdqkeerueerheeimhfphefnihehhegsveekreepucffrghnucflrggtohgsshhonhcuoehjihgurghnnhhisehjihgurghnnhhirdhorhhgqedpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehjihgurghnnhhisehjihgurghnnhhirdhorhhgpdhnrhgtphhtthhopegsuhhgqdhgnhhuqdgvmhgrtghssehgnhhurdhorhhg X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 23.83.209.30 X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) Please add to (info "(emacs) Text Scale"): The reader might be wondering "Why can't I directly do C-+ like in my browser? Why do I have to do C-x C-+? C-+ is unbound in emacs. What do I have to bind it to to make it act like it does in my browser? I bet binding it to something will then mess up C-x C-+ ... but that wouldn't matter to me, as I would now have C-+." (Note C-+ equals C-=.) "Why do I have to do something in .emacs to do this. Why don't the emacs authors make that unbound key match other programs?" Then the user might ask the same about C-- (CTRL+-). The case is the same except that that key is already bound to something. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 29 22:39:58 2020 Received: (at 39847) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Mar 2020 03:39:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35655 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j8FSQ-0004Uk-Cc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 29 Feb 2020 22:39:58 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40423) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j8FSM-0004U9-R0 for 39847@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 29 Feb 2020 22:39:56 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:40508) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1j8FSH-0004UA-B0; Sat, 29 Feb 2020 22:39:49 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3943 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1j8FSG-0003xv-MD; Sat, 29 Feb 2020 22:39:49 -0500 Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2020 05:39:40 +0200 Message-Id: <835zfoeoar.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson In-reply-to: <877e05hu32.5.fsf@jidanni.org> Subject: Re: bug#39847: Document how users can make text-zoom keys same as browser References: <877e05hu32.5.fsf@jidanni.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 39847 Cc: 39847@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson > > Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2020 07:06:25 +0800 > > Please add to (info "(emacs) Text Scale"): > > The reader might be wondering "Why can't I directly do C-+ like in my > browser? Why do I have to do C-x C-+? C-+ is unbound in emacs. We don't explain the rationale for key bindings in the manual, and I don't think we should start doing that now. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Mar 01 00:24:06 2020 Received: (at 39847) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Mar 2020 05:24:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35680 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j8H5C-000130-K2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 Mar 2020 00:24:06 -0500 Received: from antelope.elm.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.212.4]:59492) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j8H5A-00012r-5U for 39847@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 Mar 2020 00:24:05 -0500 X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4B3A3408C0; Sun, 1 Mar 2020 05:24:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a92.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-0-14.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.0.14]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 1B13334058F; Sun, 1 Mar 2020 05:24:02 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a92.g.dreamhost.com ([TEMPUNAVAIL]. [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.18.5); Sun, 01 Mar 2020 05:24:02 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Continue-Trade: 150bed6c68c4af43_1583040242499_1312147558 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1583040242499:3067065855 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1583040242499 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a92.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a92.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C74297F1FB; Sat, 29 Feb 2020 21:23:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=jidanni.org; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type; s=jidanni.org; bh=PnfvhOssfl24SX+rKY4yqlojKP8=; b=OUHRFfMJ+HOGL fhBC9ca1GTB/iI2iJKmHlO9+ui27HSrgr8aBVhTAyyQbctZOJg/89JWOg/RULbVR 06I9bf+xLqCAFbZt2kOy2+ZFRgA5mQd0J4PjlWaQaNYAviaugJRx2w/cCikfsg/+ aRl4N39XC+Rc06+PHztfLMS8L4P9mI= Received: from jidanni.org (111-246-86-4.dynamic-ip.hinet.net [111.246.86.4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jidanni@jidanni.org) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a92.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2D4E37F206; Sat, 29 Feb 2020 21:23:55 -0800 (PST) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a92 From: =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#39847: Document how users can make text-zoom keys same as browser References: <877e05hu32.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <835zfoeoar.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2020 13:23:52 +0800 Message-ID: <878skktzpz.8.fsf@jidanni.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-VR-OUT-STATUS: SPAM X-VR-OUT-SCORE: 249 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedugedruddtuddgkeduucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuggftfghnshhusghstghrihgsvgdpffftgfetoffjqffuvfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmnegoufhushhpvggtthffohhmrghinhculdegledmnegovfgvgihtqfhnlhihqddqufhprghmqdevgedugedqkeduucdlfedttddmnecujfgurhephffvufhffffkgggtsehttdertddttdejnecuhfhrohhmpejnnjjnucffrghnucflrggtohgsshhonhcuoehjihgurghnnhhisehjihgurghnnhhirdhorhhgqeenucffohhmrghinhepsghlohhgshhpohhtrdgtohhmpdhsthgrtghkohhvvghrfhhlohifrdgtohhmnecukfhppeduuddurddvgeeirdekiedrgeenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhhouggvpehsmhhtphdphhgvlhhopehjihgurghnnhhirdhorhhgpdhinhgvthepudduuddrvdegiedrkeeirdegpdhrvghtuhhrnhdqphgrthhhpeeprehuthhfqdekreeureehiehmpfehnfhiheehsgevkeerpecuffgrnhculfgrtghosghsohhnuceojhhiuggrnhhnihesjhhiuggrnhhnihdrohhrgheqpdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepjhhiuggrnhhnihesjhhiuggrnhhnihdrohhrghdpnhhrtghpthhtohepfeelkeegjeesuggvsggsuhhgshdrghhnuhdrohhrgh X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 39847 Cc: 39847@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> "EZ" == Eli Zaretskii writes: EZ> We don't explain the rationale for key bindings in the manual, and I EZ> don't think we should start doing that now. See also #28182 . http://emacs-fu.blogspot.com/2008/12/zooming-inout.html https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5533110/emacs-zoom-in-zoom-out Well then just add the bindings. Thanks. Apparently if users add them on their own it will mess things up. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Mar 01 10:45:34 2020 Received: (at 39847) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Mar 2020 15:45:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36867 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j8Qmc-0005ui-Cm for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 Mar 2020 10:45:34 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:33391) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j8Qma-0005uT-TR for 39847@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 Mar 2020 10:45:33 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:49515) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1j8QmV-0005eq-CB; Sun, 01 Mar 2020 10:45:27 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4068 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1j8QmU-0007pH-Pb; Sun, 01 Mar 2020 10:45:27 -0500 Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2020 17:45:18 +0200 Message-Id: <8336asdqpd.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson In-reply-to: <878skktzpz.8.fsf@jidanni.org> (message from =?utf-8?B?56mN?= =?utf-8?B?5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson on Sun, 01 Mar 2020 13:23:52 +0800) Subject: Re: bug#39847: Document how users can make text-zoom keys same as browser References: <877e05hu32.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <835zfoeoar.fsf@gnu.org> <878skktzpz.8.fsf@jidanni.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 39847 Cc: 39847@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson > Cc: 39847@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2020 13:23:52 +0800 > > >>>>> "EZ" == Eli Zaretskii writes: > EZ> We don't explain the rationale for key bindings in the manual, and I > EZ> don't think we should start doing that now. > > See also #28182 . > http://emacs-fu.blogspot.com/2008/12/zooming-inout.html > https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5533110/emacs-zoom-in-zoom-out Those are very old. > Well then just add the bindings. Thanks. The Ctrl-mwheel bindings are already provided. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Mar 01 19:23:35 2020 Received: (at 39847) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Mar 2020 00:23:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37100 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j8Yru-0004m2-PM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 Mar 2020 19:23:34 -0500 Received: from aye.elm.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.212.6]:30809) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j8Yrs-0004lt-Gh for 39847@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 Mar 2020 19:23:33 -0500 X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D4BF50184B; Mon, 2 Mar 2020 00:23:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a55.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-38-106.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.38.106]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 590DE50166E; Mon, 2 Mar 2020 00:23:30 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a55.g.dreamhost.com ([TEMPUNAVAIL]. [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.18.5); Mon, 02 Mar 2020 00:23:30 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Suffer-Fumbling: 696caf983beb78bb_1583108610767_1262191339 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1583108610767:3331510730 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1583108610767 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a55.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a55.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2314E8F2AE; Sun, 1 Mar 2020 16:23:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=jidanni.org; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type; s=jidanni.org; bh=gxZfRBmCDOZt10HGPDJ2fMJebCQ=; b=l3sIRISLpz9q6 tGS/h1N/hhwKzjMsgj2kvhOTPgSGvKLXlyHGzLKyjZZRNezKH/CCWu786+YBFqbQ VQYw2NkRD2ckPAihsGbbFRm1BZSVP50Ama+4EVFoaDJaTopD2R4uWgfjM7VmE/W5 8w5AzwRUMPmXwWHkqbrJXeEKHtbe0c= Received: from jidanni.org (1-170-82-124.dynamic-ip.hinet.net [1.170.82.124]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jidanni@jidanni.org) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a55.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A392C8EE0B; Sun, 1 Mar 2020 16:23:24 -0800 (PST) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a55 From: =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#39847: Document how users can make text-zoom keys same as browser References: <877e05hu32.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <835zfoeoar.fsf@gnu.org> <878skktzpz.8.fsf@jidanni.org> <8336asdqpd.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2020 08:23:20 +0800 Message-ID: <87eeubk3k7.8.fsf@jidanni.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: -100 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedugedruddtfedgvdduucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuggftfghnshhusghstghrihgsvgdpffftgfetoffjqffuvfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmnecujfgurhephffvufhffffkgggtsehttdertddttdejnecuhfhrohhmpejnnjjnucffrghnucflrggtohgsshhonhcuoehjihgurghnnhhisehjihgurghnnhhirdhorhhgqeenucfkphepuddrudejtddrkedvrdduvdegnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgepudenucfrrghrrghmpehmohguvgepshhmthhppdhhvghlohepjhhiuggrnhhnihdrohhrghdpihhnvghtpedurddujedtrdekvddruddvgedprhgvthhurhhnqdhprghthheppeeruhhtfhdqkeerueerheeimhfphefnihehhegsveekreepucffrghnucflrggtohgsshhonhcuoehjihgurghnnhhisehjihgurghnnhhirdhorhhgqedpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehjihgurghnnhhisehjihgurghnnhhirdhorhhgpdhnrhgtphhtthhopeefleekgeejseguvggssghughhsrdhgnhhurdhorhhg X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 39847 Cc: 39847@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> "EZ" == Eli Zaretskii writes: EZ> The Ctrl-mwheel bindings are already provided. OK then all there is left is providing the keyboard bindings too. Apparently it is not just a simple define-key job... From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Mar 02 22:37:32 2020 Received: (at 39847) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Mar 2020 03:37:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38546 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j8yN9-00052I-VA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 02 Mar 2020 22:37:32 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:47168) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j8yN8-000525-30 for 39847@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 02 Mar 2020 22:37:30 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:52981) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1j8yN2-0006yG-HO; Mon, 02 Mar 2020 22:37:24 -0500 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1j8yN1-0004KX-GV; Mon, 02 Mar 2020 22:37:23 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <835zfoeoar.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Sun, 01 Mar 2020 05:39:40 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#39847: Document how users can make text-zoom keys same as browser References: <877e05hu32.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <835zfoeoar.fsf@gnu.org> Message-Id: Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2020 22:37:23 -0500 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 39847 Cc: 39847@debbugs.gnu.org, jidanni@jidanni.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > The reader might be wondering "Why can't I directly do C-+ like in my > > browser? Why do I have to do C-x C-+? C-+ is unbound in emacs. > We don't explain the rationale for key bindings in the manual, and I > don't think we should start doing that now. I agree about that -- but I also wished that C-+ and C-- would scale the screen, just a few months ago. Perhaps we don't need C-- to make the argument negative. Perhaps it is enough that M-- does that. -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Mar 03 10:32:58 2020 Received: (at 39847) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Mar 2020 15:32:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39856 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j99XV-00082q-T7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 03 Mar 2020 10:32:58 -0500 Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:43168) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j99XT-00082c-Pz for 39847@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 03 Mar 2020 10:32:56 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 023FMxSn141119; Tue, 3 Mar 2020 15:32:49 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=znvYIKJNlKhnAq/HlhTHKu5AvNMBXyPuceCF7NuvMhA=; b=EtynnisKqRZYtcCssiL/Xwuaow7wW6L/riEBxczdGEJDj1lfWMRiTuLS1A4Qk6Yks1WV FpQgMDcb32UKX+mk4PqgF9IrwPbVXh6Qul2EL8n+pmf4OfYcnM4nHTKfe/YObYx2Ov1Z Eq6LxKCmNzZW7Ktp/cUswvWxF+x6meTxWQgZ1tbf/yZFvV+RNHgM/8BNa4k+G57UYAAx Aa+NECmKutTY1DntahrEomGA/uCSkDKexBrtua3cB9YET60FEnf3eIPbJMfk8V/hImTC zsD3U+zTIM9IOLY8+U0653vVp3p9RZqqJbolt0d4i6JAUbRFPNkLf9sfvFrQEwdQpFOA CA== Received: from aserp3020.oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [141.146.126.70]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2yghn33tst-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 03 Mar 2020 15:32:49 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 023FGkJ3094224; Tue, 3 Mar 2020 15:32:48 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2yg1rm8cst-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 03 Mar 2020 15:32:48 +0000 Received: from abhmp0008.oracle.com (abhmp0008.oracle.com [141.146.116.14]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 023FWllF015163; Tue, 3 Mar 2020 15:32:47 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2020 07:32:46 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: rms@gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: bug#39847: Document how users can make text-zoom keys same as browser References: <877e05hu32.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <835zfoeoar.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4966.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9549 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2001150001 definitions=main-2003030112 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9549 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 lowpriorityscore=0 priorityscore=1501 bulkscore=0 clxscore=1011 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2001150001 definitions=main-2003030112 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 39847 Cc: 39847@debbugs.gnu.org, jidanni@jidanni.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > I also wished that C-+ and C-- would scale > the screen, just a few months ago. >=20 > Perhaps we don't need C-- to make the argument negative. Perhaps > it is enough that M-- does that. My preference would be against doing that. It's true that `M--' does the same thing - so we may not _need_ `C--'. But Control is very handy for prefix args. --- There are lots of things that users are used to with browsers, which conflict with Emacs bindings. Wrt zooming, my guess is that more users use a mouse wheel to zoom in a browser (and in other applications) than use C-(+/-). I use that (mouse wheel) all the time in Emacs to zoom. For me it's handier than `C-x +/-'. (But different people prefer different things.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Mar 03 11:31:26 2020 Received: (at 39847) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Mar 2020 16:31:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39903 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j9AS6-00014B-3n for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 03 Mar 2020 11:31:26 -0500 Received: from crocodile.birch.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.209.45]:23745) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j9AS4-000142-FN for 39847@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 03 Mar 2020 11:31:25 -0500 X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 199B321DCF; Tue, 3 Mar 2020 16:31:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a66.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-38-106.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.38.106]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 611D521939; Tue, 3 Mar 2020 16:31:22 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a66.g.dreamhost.com ([TEMPUNAVAIL]. [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.18.5); Tue, 03 Mar 2020 16:31:23 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Absorbed-Cure: 385f6c392ff955f9_1583253082686_2163643111 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1583253082685:3193941382 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1583253082685 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a66.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a66.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CD767EF64; Tue, 3 Mar 2020 08:31:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=jidanni.org; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type; s=jidanni.org; bh=cnoRCaE/2DDrA9912C2pTmxucrE=; b=Ca1ieQmm8ogMB Tjr00EfmgzwlA+adVNdlN9mXTHf/zNkWWhxD+0b/lhuHIpzmQem1WCZdfcj6F6ci 8UbzuCcojG8bT0H2hpLSCwFXAVAkwuV+kw4sWaAFO+Z9rDpmyktWBz+O6a6tXAEg AB8apbl8FcTUnfG9NcP0H1i7ogW4RA= Received: from jidanni.org (114-41-3-101.dynamic-ip.hinet.net [114.41.3.101]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jidanni@jidanni.org) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a66.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1E4F07EF5C; Tue, 3 Mar 2020 08:31:15 -0800 (PST) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a66 From: =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#39847: Document how users can make text-zoom keys same as browser References: <877e05hu32.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <835zfoeoar.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2020 00:31:11 +0800 Message-ID: <874kv5pfhs.8.fsf@jidanni.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: -100 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedugedruddtiedgleefucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuggftfghnshhusghstghrihgsvgdpffftgfetoffjqffuvfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmnecujfgurhephffvufhffffkgggtsehttdertddttdejnecuhfhrohhmpejnnjjnucffrghnucflrggtohgsshhonhcuoehjihgurghnnhhisehjihgurghnnhhirdhorhhgqeenucfkphepuddugedrgedurdefrddutddunecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmohguvgepshhmthhppdhhvghlohepjhhiuggrnhhnihdrohhrghdpihhnvghtpeduudegrdeguddrfedruddtuddprhgvthhurhhnqdhprghthheppeeruhhtfhdqkeerueerheeimhfphefnihehhegsveekreepucffrghnucflrggtohgsshhonhcuoehjihgurghnnhhisehjihgurghnnhhirdhorhhgqedpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehjihgurghnnhhisehjihgurghnnhhirdhorhhgpdhnrhgtphhtthhopeefleekgeejseguvggssghughhsrdhgnhhurdhorhhg X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 39847 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 39847@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) I don't want to have to pick up a mouse just to zoom text. In all browsers I can do CTRL++ and CTRL+- to zoom and unzoom text. If even in all browsers I can do it with just the keyboard, why should I have to go find and plug in a mouse to do it in emacs, of all things? Or, why... should I have to use the current "most curious" key sequence to zoom text... for somebody's historical reasons. So curious that it needs a big explanation in the manual, as no new user would have imagined more keys than just CTRL++ and CTRL+- are needed. And no recipe of how to untangle things shall ever even be documented, until the very last user of "C-- to make the argument negative" kicks the bucket or something. Nope, no recipe of how a user could make emacs just use CTRL++ and CTRL+- shall ever be added to the manual. As the user is supposed to engineer it himself as if it was as simple as binding functions to keys. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Mar 03 14:55:48 2020 Received: (at 39847) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Mar 2020 19:55:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39981 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j9Dds-0007u3-CL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 03 Mar 2020 14:55:48 -0500 Received: from ted.gofardesign.uk ([67.225.143.91]:34958) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j9Ddq-0007tk-Kf; Tue, 03 Mar 2020 14:55:47 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=marxist.se; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=qAwzNsI+qastwUAAF1G9Tvv4N2WS4qwSPmZ4fwYvmgc=; b=KMnbodq9LTCEAk0UyBSKQPZ/dy 8N8UhlpwO5vCTSoEolHoHrRYEqFymO015PHsHLX4gtJmPmYMT0+rEcEM8jOES7w+40UAmoogxDpk9 PP6nEltXdedd8/a7MyWAh9My1v9oNsYCn39jCH6qeVN7KmWfO85JpwSp4du87qHN9neOumzLKeRtX QjDgpjDMKuckDLK8novFpEK8q60P+e4UoGiozqiGIGy6qwqxedX1t4G6fQQRwr9fwgXlGmKQQKu0U R6Mv3jmTyjQ1QuPGcFHEKxWWIiVwwCw5GV+5lYrPIOozG+cOled3637pkxM5nqcnp7aIqbwgh1mSS SwqYHncg==; Received: from h-4-70-69.a785.priv.bahnhof.se ([155.4.70.69]:49340 helo=localhost) by ted.gofardesign.uk with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1j9Ddj-000DUm-MF; Tue, 03 Mar 2020 14:55:39 -0500 From: Stefan Kangas To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#39847: Document how users can make text-zoom keys same as browser In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Tue, 3 Mar 2020 07:32:46 -0800 (PST)") References: <877e05hu32.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <835zfoeoar.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2020 20:55:37 +0100 Message-ID: <87pndt43ie.fsf@stefankangas.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ted.gofardesign.uk X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - marxist.se X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: ted.gofardesign.uk: authenticated_id: stefan@marxist.se X-Authenticated-Sender: ted.gofardesign.uk: stefan@marxist.se X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 39847 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 39847@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, 28182@debbugs.gnu.org, jidanni@jidanni.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) (Sending a copy also to Bug#28182 where this has been previously discussed.) Drew Adams writes: >> I also wished that C-+ and C-- would scale >> the screen, just a few months ago. >> >> Perhaps we don't need C-- to make the argument negative. Perhaps >> it is enough that M-- does that. > > My preference would be against doing that. > It's true that `M--' does the same thing - > so we may not _need_ `C--'. But Control > is very handy for prefix args. I suggest binding this to s-- and s-+. Would that be an acceptable compromise? It would be backwards compatible, and these keys are currently unbound. Best regards, Stefan Kangas From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Mar 03 15:03:55 2020 Received: (at 39847) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Mar 2020 20:03:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39990 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j9Dli-00086m-VU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 03 Mar 2020 15:03:55 -0500 Received: from beige.elm.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.212.16]:14571) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j9Dlg-00086Y-Lh; Tue, 03 Mar 2020 15:03:53 -0500 X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D5185406E2; Tue, 3 Mar 2020 20:03:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a97.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-13-25.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.13.25]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 4D8D6540C65; Tue, 3 Mar 2020 20:03:50 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a97.g.dreamhost.com ([TEMPUNAVAIL]. [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.18.5); Tue, 03 Mar 2020 20:03:51 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Oafish-Reaction: 7639e244643c5517_1583265830906_2460046092 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1583265830906:3221158241 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1583265830906 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a97.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a97.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C887A7F0DF; Tue, 3 Mar 2020 12:03:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=jidanni.org; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type; s=jidanni.org; bh=QPaJfbMkXFZgEkkUwP4mOggTlRw=; b=S0ffSX0vKvXN7 E7KvuRlevF0ieFVhg6d3BK7nlwrXb9HVKVkP2gxs9oBNIyVn7S4vEr6IJTl3gxk/ biUJ9OOtYW6xF51hqvKPtabcJ2xXLGC4aAWYml7QZtO8dWN9r7N9Ih/LCly0Dp9E yxdvNKdQ178n1tOtxw0dSl0vep+DaA= Received: from jidanni.org (114-41-3-101.dynamic-ip.hinet.net [114.41.3.101]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jidanni@jidanni.org) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a97.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 64DF47E78C; Tue, 3 Mar 2020 12:03:29 -0800 (PST) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a97 From: =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#39847: Document how users can make text-zoom keys same as browser References: <877e05hu32.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <835zfoeoar.fsf@gnu.org> <87pndt43ie.fsf@stefankangas.se> Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2020 04:03:25 +0800 Message-ID: <87eeu9nr3m.8.fsf@jidanni.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: -100 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedugedruddtiedgudefhecutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggvpdfftffgtefojffquffvnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenucfjughrpefhvffufhffkfggtgesthdtredttddtjeenucfhrhhomhepnjjnnjcuffgrnhculfgrtghosghsohhnuceojhhiuggrnhhnihesjhhiuggrnhhnihdrohhrgheqnecukfhppeduudegrdeguddrfedruddtudenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhhouggvpehsmhhtphdphhgvlhhopehjihgurghnnhhirdhorhhgpdhinhgvthepuddugedrgedurdefrddutddupdhrvghtuhhrnhdqphgrthhhpeeprehuthhfqdekreeureehiehmpfehnfhiheehsgevkeerpecuffgrnhculfgrtghosghsohhnuceojhhiuggrnhhnihesjhhiuggrnhhnihdrohhrgheqpdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepjhhiuggrnhhnihesjhhiuggrnhhnihdrohhrghdpnhhrtghpthhtohepvdekudekvdesuggvsggsuhhgshdrghhnuhdrohhrgh X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 39847 Cc: 28182@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , 39847@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) >>>>> "SK" == Stefan Kangas writes: SK> I suggest binding this to s-- and s-+. Would that be an acceptable SK> compromise? It would be backwards compatible, and these keys are SK> currently unbound. It's a deal. As long as you also document how the user can also make them c-- and c-+ safely. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Mar 03 15:26:39 2020 Received: (at 39847) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Mar 2020 20:26:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40015 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j9E7j-0000Dy-Kz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 03 Mar 2020 15:26:39 -0500 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:36984) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j9E7i-0000DU-CI; Tue, 03 Mar 2020 15:26:38 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 023KOECX080773; Tue, 3 Mar 2020 20:26:31 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=fgi21A13RuECIRHpMVbuKuajfMDn+Zo4I3WJvbq3QdM=; b=vEkFajov2jcFlOx1fPDWnTBmI38JCrduxaR8Zw5TREbcrZxctiIsYKKuGP8LL7LY7DLN 4XUypZgFb8j60f3f6sWTCLc9dgBQI+mR0Z+4kGJTdvXqWXnuCSZaCJy/QFkMczAN00iF JwAVgAzv/pI1QoDJMa4BIKtcIkb/5UkSOhBd+XdX20D3hGNxlaAMWy8Asqtkq3ug3Ae9 mrlV5X9kYo6IWjeVon/LWdYfqFgMgiTbnnP3QDIauIeHrf6tg9CjnBgzv5+YtmGjuf5m A8QwQcRAzWIO7SFcjt1+wmI84hfDXO2aak2ktOCDFh3fLLdPQpsExXmz8IWeppOnEKTp jA== Received: from aserp3030.oracle.com (aserp3030.oracle.com [141.146.126.71]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2yffwqsrea-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 03 Mar 2020 20:26:31 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 023KH2pJ123397; Tue, 3 Mar 2020 20:24:31 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2yg1gy6p9f-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 03 Mar 2020 20:24:31 +0000 Received: from abhmp0020.oracle.com (abhmp0020.oracle.com [141.146.116.26]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 023KOTGu020754; Tue, 3 Mar 2020 20:24:29 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2020 12:24:28 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Stefan Kangas Subject: RE: bug#39847: Document how users can make text-zoom keys same as browser References: <877e05hu32.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <835zfoeoar.fsf@gnu.org> <87pndt43ie.fsf@stefankangas.se> In-Reply-To: <87pndt43ie.fsf@stefankangas.se> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4966.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9549 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxlogscore=806 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2001150001 definitions=main-2003030130 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9549 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 lowpriorityscore=0 spamscore=0 impostorscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxlogscore=848 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 clxscore=1011 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 priorityscore=1501 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2001150001 definitions=main-2003030130 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 39847 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 39847@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, 28182@debbugs.gnu.org, jidanni@jidanni.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > >> I also wished that C-+ and C-- would scale > >> the screen, just a few months ago. > >> > >> Perhaps we don't need C-- to make the argument negative. > >> Perhaps it is enough that M-- does that. > > > > My preference would be against doing that. > > It's true that `M--' does the same thing - > > so we may not _need_ `C--'. But Control > > is very handy for prefix args. >=20 > I suggest binding this to s-- and s-+. Would that be an acceptable > compromise? It would be backwards compatible, and these keys are > currently unbound. If you're asking me, then my answer is no. I don't see how it would be a compromise (at all), and I don't see how it would be backward compatible. How so? My reasons against this proposal: 1. It doesn't help with the argument currently being given, which is that users are used to `C-+/-'. `s-+/-' doesn't help at all, given such a habit, does it? 2. We already have `C-x +/-'. Why would we need or want two such sets of keys, by default? 3. Given the choice (if we were to pick only one) between `C-x +/-' and `s-+/-', the former is better, IMO: a. It's been the default binding for a long time; Emacs users are already used to it. b. Some platforms may not have a `Super' modifier key, by default. c. Using a repeatable key (`+/-') that's on a prefix key doesn't waste a repeatable key that's not on a prefix key. IOW, if on a prefix key, `+/-' remains available without the prefix key, for some other repeatable action (by "repeatable", here, I mean by just holding down a key). d. If `+/-' is on keymap `ctl-x-map' then it's easy to move or copy it and the other keys on that map to another prefix key. Just one opinion. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Mar 03 15:51:53 2020 Received: (at 39847) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Mar 2020 20:51:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40052 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j9EW9-0000rj-DX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 03 Mar 2020 15:51:53 -0500 Received: from ted.gofardesign.uk ([67.225.143.91]:41566) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j9EW7-0000rR-EB; Tue, 03 Mar 2020 15:51:51 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=marxist.se; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Gh9R8LgeU2xOnY2CPYet2Kubs8eKhGPl9U+utyRJvOI=; b=bkEiNCS3OqDTjguS+NCikJLk5K 5Jo7uupmGFwCbWqTcGs6WbNL8sTxgsxjDi6ROIQMA3HFOiEG1ltZ/KIg+0S1O6IkZQ8nXH2aP55ht tved6X04B1vn+zP6TTq6tCjZFWSO+toFP3ae6tAF6Bsdun1esmLc/Ba3V9OtqGuOC825OtfI4GHgn wYggQsOfe9MgqCLZwUPLHK3NO0ZMicymD2KCQy9S8n8busmL9GAo7ZeqNYH7GTSFJu/cYMFKQKdv1 QFrtj+0gaw40EgKz1rkT9d4Y1u8hKBxBImxniC6V3uKfXVPrgClfN0SYcZK0FjLU9AdT3FR5ktAev nn0EoSkQ==; Received: from h-4-70-69.a785.priv.bahnhof.se ([155.4.70.69]:44778 helo=localhost) by ted.gofardesign.uk with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1j9EVz-000Umk-Qx; Tue, 03 Mar 2020 15:51:44 -0500 From: Stefan Kangas To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#39847: Document how users can make text-zoom keys same as browser In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Tue, 3 Mar 2020 12:24:28 -0800 (PST)") References: <877e05hu32.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <835zfoeoar.fsf@gnu.org> <87pndt43ie.fsf@stefankangas.se> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2020 21:51:36 +0100 Message-ID: <87mu8x40x3.fsf@stefankangas.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ted.gofardesign.uk X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - marxist.se X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: ted.gofardesign.uk: authenticated_id: stefan@marxist.se X-Authenticated-Sender: ted.gofardesign.uk: stefan@marxist.se X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 39847 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 39847@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, 28182@debbugs.gnu.org, jidanni@jidanni.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Drew Adams writes: > I don't see how it would be backward > compatible. How so? I mean that it would not change the current binding for C--. > 1. It doesn't help with the argument currently > being given, which is that users are used to > `C-+/-'. `s-+/-' doesn't help at all, given > such a habit, does it? I personally agree with Richard that C-- and C-+ is a better default and I also think it's okay if negative prefix argument is only on M--. However, Eli has stated in Bug#28182 that he doesn't want a backward incompatible change. AFAICT, s-- and s-+ has some precedence. It's used in Sublime Text. Atom and VSCode use C-- and C-+. This is from searching the web. > 2. We already have `C-x +/-'. Why would we need > or want two such sets of keys, by default? Familiarity and ease of use. BTW, we have more than two such keys: C-x C-+ text-scale-adjust C-x C-- text-scale-adjust C-x C-0 text-scale-adjust C-x C-= text-scale-adjust Best regards, Stefan Kangas From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Mar 03 16:04:20 2020 Received: (at 39847) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Mar 2020 21:04:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40066 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j9EiC-0001Bh-It for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 03 Mar 2020 16:04:20 -0500 Received: from bonobo.birch.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.209.22]:54545) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j9Ei9-0001BQ-VO; Tue, 03 Mar 2020 16:04:18 -0500 X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93AF46001F4; Tue, 3 Mar 2020 21:04:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a11.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-219-30.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.219.30]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id CA8216007AE; Tue, 3 Mar 2020 21:04:15 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a11.g.dreamhost.com ([TEMPUNAVAIL]. [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.18.5); Tue, 03 Mar 2020 21:04:16 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Name-Glossy: 23befc7921566dbd_1583269456320_2614428194 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1583269456320:4155039952 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1583269456320 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a11.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a11.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDB7883635; Tue, 3 Mar 2020 13:04:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=jidanni.org; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type; s=jidanni.org; bh=qra9fh3sCV2r/mmsJVp9tSZhv9I=; b=o/PGfTXs42lV/ hScULngSENWCD1Es09+LQkSJN1zELx3nixB+1Pymu7JTJEhxCRlzxH4j5aUTZ9lW 0z7hUSAtJwmnWNmrJn7Oled4T9dtU/JWghXzZnTH2l6oLEkD5GDH9sQRqwMXVrZG lKMLXWC83646dYuBUaeDR9wZnPOdiE= Received: from jidanni.org (114-41-3-101.dynamic-ip.hinet.net [114.41.3.101]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jidanni@jidanni.org) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a11.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4E02E8362D; Tue, 3 Mar 2020 13:04:12 -0800 (PST) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a11 From: =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#39847: Document how users can make text-zoom keys same as browser References: <877e05hu32.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <835zfoeoar.fsf@gnu.org> <87pndt43ie.fsf@stefankangas.se> <87mu8x40x3.fsf@stefankangas.se> Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2020 05:04:06 +0800 Message-ID: <87v9nlp2ux.8.fsf@jidanni.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: -100 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedugedruddtiedgudegjecutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggvpdfftffgtefojffquffvnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenucfjughrpefhvffufhffkfggtgesthdtredttddtjeenucfhrhhomhepnjjnnjcuffgrnhculfgrtghosghsohhnuceojhhiuggrnhhnihesjhhiuggrnhhnihdrohhrgheqnecukfhppeduudegrdeguddrfedruddtudenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhhouggvpehsmhhtphdphhgvlhhopehjihgurghnnhhirdhorhhgpdhinhgvthepuddugedrgedurdefrddutddupdhrvghtuhhrnhdqphgrthhhpeeprehuthhfqdekreeureehiehmpfehnfhiheehsgevkeerpecuffgrnhculfgrtghosghsohhnuceojhhiuggrnhhnihesjhhiuggrnhhnihdrohhrgheqpdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepjhhiuggrnhhnihesjhhiuggrnhhnihdrohhrghdpnhhrtghpthhtohepvdekudekvdesuggvsggsuhhgshdrghhnuhdrohhrgh X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 39847 Cc: 28182@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , 39847@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> "SK" == Stefan Kangas writes: SK> AFAICT, s-- and s-+ has some precedence. It's used in Sublime SK> Text. Atom and VSCode use C-- and C-+. Never heard of them. But I heard of Chrome. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Mar 03 16:13:20 2020 Received: (at 39847) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Mar 2020 21:13:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40077 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j9Eqt-0001PG-RD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 03 Mar 2020 16:13:20 -0500 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:56308) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j9Eqs-0001P1-9a; Tue, 03 Mar 2020 16:13:19 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 023Kw348013728; Tue, 3 Mar 2020 21:13:12 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=91rpM9nE6a98JOjRZq78e/NsGyEleKE8016FfKIQWbw=; b=aqs+juPWJI2bPgQ7e3mlbSCXWBDD52cccGKEEbblb28PncRRzP6+KcpBXt/iodHUTrQ7 eKNJZIQoWvqwLq1Icav1Y8PXCJP6Mk6IEQoK+2FNTI707osJ6diwozmW+2MMjgRD3b1e VtqjmGiFU3VZjY/t077h87zXnwiQ2JR7lCaSz2M7dyLmojw2ZCATQ79Igtg0NhNYZ7gg YTceE7wiqLslMClONns2JehRLeBB5v7YzfEu4FdmqMRalOV5UiM7A24L1Pr/nTMR/mcQ ixhWusoXuJjoDj9R7cqNkM4GNLOONGR17RIsZP+d9QQGZ39N5kQd+Y2rfuOCESMx1cb+ pw== Received: from userp3030.oracle.com (userp3030.oracle.com [156.151.31.80]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2yffwqt034-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 03 Mar 2020 21:13:12 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 023LCb4g125789; Tue, 3 Mar 2020 21:13:11 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2yg1emsnvd-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 03 Mar 2020 21:13:11 +0000 Received: from abhmp0020.oracle.com (abhmp0020.oracle.com [141.146.116.26]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 023LD9HB015844; Tue, 3 Mar 2020 21:13:09 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <95a4cc54-4d8d-4b89-ac03-376f037f1d1e@default> Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2020 13:13:08 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams To: Stefan Kangas Subject: RE: bug#39847: Document how users can make text-zoom keys same as browser References: <877e05hu32.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <835zfoeoar.fsf@gnu.org> <87pndt43ie.fsf@stefankangas.se> <87mu8x40x3.fsf@stefankangas.se> In-Reply-To: <87mu8x40x3.fsf@stefankangas.se> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4966.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9549 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 suspectscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 malwarescore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2001150001 definitions=main-2003030135 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9549 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 lowpriorityscore=0 spamscore=0 impostorscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxlogscore=999 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 clxscore=1015 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 priorityscore=1501 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2001150001 definitions=main-2003030134 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 39847 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 39847@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, 28182@debbugs.gnu.org, jidanni@jidanni.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > I don't see how it would be backward > > compatible. How so? >=20 > I mean that it would not change the current binding for C--. I see. Yes, thanks. (You meant that, unlike changing C-+/-, it wouldn't be backward incompatible.) > > 1. It doesn't help with the argument currently > > being given, which is that users are used to > > `C-+/-'. `s-+/-' doesn't help at all, given > > such a habit, does it? >=20 > I personally agree with Richard that C-- and C-+ is a better default > and I also think it's okay if negative prefix argument is only on M--. > However, Eli has stated in Bug#28182 that he doesn't want a backward > incompatible change. >=20 > AFAICT, s-- and s-+ has some precedence. It's used in Sublime > Text. Atom and VSCode use C-- and C-+. This is from searching the > web. OK, but it won't help with a habit of using `C-+/-' to zoom. That was my point here. > > 2. We already have `C-x +/-'. Why would we need > > or want two such sets of keys, by default? >=20 > Familiarity and ease of use. That might be an argument for switching to `s-+/-' _instead_ of `C-x C-+/-' (familiarity, at least for Sublime users). But I don't see how it argues for having both, by default. > BTW, we have more than two such keys:=20 > C-x C-+ text-scale-adjust > C-x C-- text-scale-adjust > C-x C-0 text-scale-adjust > C-x C-=3D text-scale-adjust Yes. And the `C-0' behavior would still be needed, using some key sequence. Which is (IMO) another argument against using `C-+' and `C--'. `C-x' followed by `C--', `C-0' or `C-+' kinda makes sense (mnemonic). Where would we put the `C-0' behavior, for the proposal to change to `C-+/-'? Likewise, for convenience, a `s-=3D' alias would also still be needed/wanted for `s-+', for the same reason - no need to use `Shift'. So we would be talking about some key (maybe `s-0'?) for what `C-x C-0' does, plus sacrificing `s-+', `s-=3D', and `s--'. So four keys. Plus apparently keeping `C-x C--', `C-x C-0', `C-x C-+', and `C-x C-=3D'. 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Content preview: tags 28182 - patch thanks Content analysis details: (2.5 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.2 HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS From and EnvelopeFrom 2nd level mail domains are different 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (stefankangas[at]gmail.com) -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [209.85.219.169 listed in list.dnswl.org] -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 RBL: Average reputation (+2) [209.85.219.169 listed in wl.mailspike.net] 2.0 BLANK_SUBJECT Subject is present but empty 0.2 FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN 2nd level domains in From and EnvelopeFrom freemail headers are different X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. 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Content preview: tags 28182 - patch thanks Content analysis details: (1.5 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 RBL: Average reputation (+2) [209.85.219.169 listed in wl.mailspike.net] -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [209.85.219.169 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.2 HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS From and EnvelopeFrom 2nd level mail domains are different 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (stefankangas[at]gmail.com) 2.0 BLANK_SUBJECT Subject is present but empty -1.0 MAILING_LIST_MULTI Multiple indicators imply a widely-seen list manager 0.2 FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN 2nd level domains in From and EnvelopeFrom freemail headers are different tags 28182 - patch thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 05 08:08:40 2020 Received: (at 39847) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Aug 2020 12:08:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50278 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k3IDo-0005XA-Fc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Aug 2020 08:08:40 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:40348) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k3IDm-0005Wr-Ao; Wed, 05 Aug 2020 08:08:38 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=/GRQcnnMikUUQG+mN2efYuJd51fJCTNYcPNgL1qsIaA=; b=nmAj3j0bSOwWe/MQ3UBQixdNKf 2I0L5VVfQYJ66t7XELrumRvZn0q1hxKJOL/nrMBRg0u7797sUzCGHmVCmeS6LxGc+H/0ZPlCmIW7R B/ev5IDlPen25f1uH7uNUlHwrRc7HPSoCLKzXgkRcnSekM5RMjxLtEwELjAwAC1HRgqM=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1k3IDb-0004Rf-R7; Wed, 05 Aug 2020 14:08:31 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#39847: Document how users can make text-zoom keys same as browser References: <877e05hu32.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <835zfoeoar.fsf@gnu.org> <87pndt43ie.fsf@stefankangas.se> Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2020 14:08:26 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87pndt43ie.fsf@stefankangas.se> (Stefan Kangas's message of "Tue, 03 Mar 2020 20:55:37 +0100") Message-ID: <87imdx8fd1.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: It was suggested to bind `s-+' / `s--', but as many (most?) computers don't have that keystroke, I don't think that's a solution. And, as explained many times, we can't rebind `C--' and therefore we can't rebind `C-+'. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 39847 Cc: rms@gnu.org, jidanni@jidanni.org, 39847@debbugs.gnu.org, 28182@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) It was suggested to bind `s-+' / `s--', but as many (most?) computers don't have that keystroke, I don't think that's a solution. And, as explained many times, we can't rebind `C--' and therefore we can't rebind `C-+'. So I'm closing this bug report. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 05 08:08:45 2020 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Aug 2020 12:08:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50281 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k3IDs-0005XV-Pd for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Aug 2020 08:08:45 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:40362) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k3IDq-0005Ww-U4 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Aug 2020 08:08:43 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Na8m2u9hMb/N5w1NXt6Qd71naHySTKt51Sj9Z9tbGew=; b=mAyTWz8D7E8GO3h+B2OdrWS/oe 5XVjoNOPuF9zT8axf8AMH1gzILdNtDXNKGIfJgBb3TzpWK6BLQuvVKoZdIfUUvalRsPxym4OHH5Jo 04t8EXzHJoWpSpKA6fwhaTMS7tC/fJK7XFoEyW1ebigIG9JiFC78HYq5VZMco/50Ja8o=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1k3IDj-0004Rq-6z for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Aug 2020 14:08:37 +0200 Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2020 14:08:34 +0200 Message-Id: <87h7th8fct.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #39847 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 39847 wontfix close 39847 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 39847 wontfix close 39847 quit From unknown Tue Jun 17 22:29:11 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2020 11:24:07 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator