From unknown Sun Aug 17 00:59:54 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#39691: Definition of "first-thingy" Resent-From: Elias =?UTF-8?Q?M=C3=A5rtenson?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2020 14:40:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 39691 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 39691@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.158220956622286 (code B ref -1); Thu, 20 Feb 2020 14:40:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Feb 2020 14:39:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44157 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j4mz8-0005nO-5K for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 20 Feb 2020 09:39:26 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:35486) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j4mz7-0005nH-4J for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 20 Feb 2020 09:39:25 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42886) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1j4mz5-0004uU-VB for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 20 Feb 2020 09:39:24 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,FREEMAIL_FROM, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1j4mz4-0001vn-SE for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 20 Feb 2020 09:39:23 -0500 Received: from mail-il1-x12f.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::12f]:44482) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1j4mz4-0001v9-Me for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 20 Feb 2020 09:39:22 -0500 Received: by mail-il1-x12f.google.com with SMTP id s85so23863644ill.11 for ; Thu, 20 Feb 2020 06:39:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=rNPXpCKOH3UZWA6Wnp0HfLdG3YZwMR9gdcMwwu4IKrw=; b=CYXHpIkSorzpy0KqHS6U2ROhE5CmhIM5QzwD3IP0NHGhHOkc2dlxpnL3thyTZIqOX2 TsSBGOIv8e47IJaYUSyZuxHQmvPQzax/EVfhmp576+vOco1CNrACmH+mCJNtK0spt2gi RW0R3qKIgjYK1bNbpbST5bExiLSWso8TRFWxbtnYCE9Ava9TmjOos1OGX+A5s+K9tsHj Wjg3TTnEHtLGWGw0kf07UZeii+NO/ztxSUCe2Pd0ucZioam/Xp+nHM7mqnahsO+RrjXQ OCTFUdkuLGsMDjeQLgq3xlJu9/QDHIRZbN9xGpO66rVWzD8Z+GmE8F71kvGOT40/3/UD sc6A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=rNPXpCKOH3UZWA6Wnp0HfLdG3YZwMR9gdcMwwu4IKrw=; b=MuxDxeTjY25fCqHvwRtloUkkPj6kkgXs8hTj4AzTaxILRIMunY0tyZOlCkfZ9f0Olk 8UmzMUEnavohqIa16qOkxCtIGqrh/LZHVTJnvSIljLCq150tsRlpHCOMrdDI8z94J8Up DwixrP5OFOs0IfkRKGWK2W4j+dTzdvuChFTMckI1zziwh23AKo4PQZToqP/96DnEXKXW +nOPVzTmMuSUpGN5sAdEHFE7CwO/1QwUPxKgC7BmMsrPfA94CJdrSZ6QztAR42AfNVMQ CJEZobpwync9ygRjQFwU3hlbTFAOsrNfZx2deAU5mv/IuMEqmXqnYELsZ/zMr9htKEp7 VS0g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUa1S1ctNijYOUYWIqBTqUeJAQ+8OYLS43X8Y7H4xgSZlaN198M T3S7LTYM+zBF2pDG76QGk3eQMai3epk2DDHykDjvB7E0EUTcdA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqz+GZKu2SUhDN1x2E9n/twV98GXBHejJvNT2oQM9XKR2YPP4hUqxeVx58ldoduUsuMfFX9n56HXuO/vb8yD5EM= X-Received: by 2002:a92:ddcb:: with SMTP id d11mr28964314ilr.211.1582209561260; Thu, 20 Feb 2020 06:39:21 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Elias =?UTF-8?Q?M=C3=A5rtenson?= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2020 22:39:10 +0800 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000dc0aa6059f02de2c" X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::12f X-Spam-Score: 2.3 (++) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: One benefit of experimenting with low-level PAL behaviours is that I've spent much more time lately reading the ISO spec. I was reading the specification for =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=86=91?= (first), which says that it returns "first-thingy" of the argument. Content analysis details: (2.3 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (lokedhs[at]gmail.com) 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) -0.7 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, low trust [209.51.188.17 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 2.0 SPOOFED_FREEMAIL No description available. X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) --000000000000dc0aa6059f02de2c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable One benefit of experimenting with low-level PAL behaviours is that I've spent much more time lately reading the ISO spec. I was reading the specification for =E2=86=91 (first), which says that it r= eturns "first-thingy" of the argument. Now, the definitions section defines "first-thingy" as such: *First-thingy in A : An opration that for A , an array, returns an array B , defined as follows:If A is empty, set B1 to the typical-element of A .Otherwise, set B1 to the first-item of the ravel-list of A .If B1 is a number or a character, set B to an array, whose ravel-list contains the singleitem B1 , and whose shape-list is empty.Otherwise, set B to B1 .* My impression from reading this is that this is not consistent with GNU APL's behaviour in the following case: =E2=86=919 GNU APL returns the number 9 in this case, while it would seem it's supposed to return a 9 wrapped in a zero-dimensional array: =E2=8A=829 Now, GNU APL evaluates =E2=8A=829 to the number 9 as well, which I also fee= l isn't consistent. Am I misreading the spec, or is there an inconsistency here? Regards, Elias --000000000000dc0aa6059f02de2c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
One benefit of experimenting with low-level PAL behav= iours is that I've spent much more time lately reading the ISO spec.

I was reading the specification for =E2=86=91 (first= ), which says that it returns "first-thingy" of the argument.

Now, the definitions section defines "first-thin= gy" as such:

First-thingy in A : An oprati= on that for A , an array, returns an array B , defined as follows:
If A = is empty, set B1 to the typical-element of A .
Otherwise, set B1 to the = first-item of the ravel-list of A .
If B1 is a number or a character, se= t B to an array, whose ravel-list contains the single
item B1 , and whos= e shape-list is empty.
Otherwise, set B to B1 .

=
My impression from reading this is that this is not consistent with GN= U APL's behaviour in the following case: =E2=86=919

GNU APL returns the number 9 in this case, while it would seem it'= ;s supposed to return a 9 wrapped in a zero-dimensional array: =E2=8A=829

Now, GNU APL evaluates =E2=8A=829 to the number 9 a= s well, which I also feel isn't consistent.

Am= I misreading the spec, or is there an inconsistency here?

Regards,
Elias
--000000000000dc0aa6059f02de2c-- From unknown Sun Aug 17 00:59:54 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#39691: References: In-Reply-To: Resent-From: Elias =?UTF-8?Q?M=C3=A5rtenson?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2020 15:12:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 39691 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 39691@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 39691-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B39691.158221146226586 (code B ref 39691); Thu, 20 Feb 2020 15:12:01 +0000 Received: (at 39691) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Feb 2020 15:11:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45608 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j4nTi-0006uk-FI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 20 Feb 2020 10:11:02 -0500 Received: from mail-io1-f53.google.com ([209.85.166.53]:46157) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j4nTg-0006uF-Kf for 39691@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 20 Feb 2020 10:11:01 -0500 Received: by mail-io1-f53.google.com with SMTP id t26so4998139ioi.13 for <39691@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 20 Feb 2020 07:11:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=trqcMw7wFla+3hnEEjFEqfX94/kjqLtVURZxPFhp1K8=; b=qXPLtNw2yDF1VwBxgMNJGj5YLEVDNUH6DVhU/PQYN1vZNdh3FNij+zyyjNeXDnxW00 +Wj6rHs53AV/8mv3K0o77IIbLxgmtYgn4QBIJzCriIBhtQfpfvfgpqRj62LMrspfqpMV h4cVo0dQ+L4CU/OwI44nrtyLs+IfftsTidpIu0OpJoBcXnqDGnf6AdBRXjwF1CPht0BJ no/hADFuxzRmmcaKSJhrf/NSlKCA3C0tzXW8NtyGPAS7WLHej/QyVPLXnNLMkbXfEgx/ ISo+bxBTkd8NgiJSMbnM42JvK+mFVLgHz1c6VQxCfkLiNBC0PNGqg6riK/o1KzHiefGL 8lHw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=trqcMw7wFla+3hnEEjFEqfX94/kjqLtVURZxPFhp1K8=; b=jBAzRtlRi148MNNfXlO9m8b4tJiIxXN9j1969Eo5/HHCa5AbZy/2s/Pv79pLHZAbVa Fa0aXD93gGAHiumCdhuMPyVLfBZkt+EATzKdA9nD1rAdqxtxh5KQPQuJiZJaPwD1C6Je Mim+iHhRvSkBwWWy9dAOr/l+y8OhUKB+3qweyrYSTKzUizrXjs953Hh+mPNp9SBWMqOr 5xJtZsKXeOOxwFkZFvhJFg6wgX4Zphl3YWCE0k63mHI/WYcqhyFroXnwzLrMQQCmab5V X/vOMsa7SRWHT5tSmBf10rwFh+hMScoZZ1haDxYsFIscswCDgVfNar4C6tMwrL+kM7zi XzGg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUxEqLwArWH4yTxQDpSaICpAsEWmGoIrj4kYEBTC87BhiFpKIOk t0koe5+ft/8ooOA2bFcTxtybDneDF8ITHb3f0hocSUrjPFA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxKaKq77suJncIuI+pal+g7AYhYSk/W3tanJFJ/P3u/rf/kTsTm0NewVXZrUiHueihGMctTYy9l3Gf4q4cygZk= X-Received: by 2002:a02:cc7a:: with SMTP id j26mr26274189jaq.79.1582211454850; Thu, 20 Feb 2020 07:10:54 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Elias =?UTF-8?Q?M=C3=A5rtenson?= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2020 23:10:43 +0800 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b9d9ac059f034ff3" X-Spam-Score: 2.0 (++) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Please close this issue. I accidentally sent it to the wrong list. Please close this issue. I accidentally sent it to the wrong list. Content analysis details: (2.0 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (lokedhs[at]gmail.com) 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [209.85.166.53 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 RBL: Average reputation (+2) [209.85.166.53 listed in wl.mailspike.net] 2.0 BLANK_SUBJECT Subject is present but empty X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) --000000000000b9d9ac059f034ff3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Please close this issue. I accidentally sent it to the wrong list. --000000000000b9d9ac059f034ff3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Please close this issue. I accidentally sent it to the wr= ong list.=C2=A0
--000000000000b9d9ac059f034ff3-- From unknown Sun Aug 17 00:59:54 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#39691: Definition of "first-thingy" Resent-From: Noam Postavsky Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2020 15:49:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 39691 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Elias =?UTF-8?Q?M=C3=A5rtenson?= Cc: 39691@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 39691-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B39691.158221369930197 (code B ref 39691); Thu, 20 Feb 2020 15:49:01 +0000 Received: (at 39691) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Feb 2020 15:48:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45646 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j4o3n-0007qt-G0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 20 Feb 2020 10:48:19 -0500 Received: from mail-qk1-f180.google.com ([209.85.222.180]:40914) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j4o3m-0007qZ-4q; Thu, 20 Feb 2020 10:48:18 -0500 Received: by mail-qk1-f180.google.com with SMTP id b7so3968061qkl.7; Thu, 20 Feb 2020 07:48:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=j9NqjeG5NZxdDLljHOLwuBk6XEoWSqCDdCjAUfVFc60=; b=JMsRtyR0mVgpCq8mgTvfN46xucVVxwwOH7J6ztXQNW5/xEV5KGqMDWEgi4gu5pEIIy RqH8A8xwWrMnLZ+q6a1Ie7vSzLPPvexa+FeXMiEUrocLojBm49yiRRmqBt1uxlFUOCX7 l9UA5eZ5YbnJHrqpWm+WaZyHhJ1WU+9XMgqL9hK+vF0lJOhnypvuNs8XiC/S4qgCUEfe J4/Lm6FHC7yUzGdScY4oahdfJSmjHDSybwQY/Vfkec/PD7J8cwAkIUuIPC5i6OQZQZqQ E80fQeMhOehzF+AY1MBbHThvYR5YC3BhZDsaBdvjF1lp5E/UNgH3B+T8Ytg1O9ve4iWH CrCg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=j9NqjeG5NZxdDLljHOLwuBk6XEoWSqCDdCjAUfVFc60=; b=OsoUsA7/OsHQqqewm9EKwwibxoTPCeS/21BSnuoxwBZHH6G+765IqZI17834OV/2eH UCO1ei0lTqbY/Nft1Y6g6E2W16ff46QRtXH6JhCqROl1zAeW+hHR0nXIRqWG1tGYhT3h /kwcxHPpdVg+TBXY9Olpe+mkTznFJjaEV5l+JNEZa5O7E49w8LxvW0VkNtp6O3+ohvwi k7WESFFjkQSprcJGHwWqFhMjvmLsdCu40SDIA45Ob2hCirCXAwHczfxvW7Ph1QlIpibg 3/JNtfK5oLODNsxA+O+gOoxr980tA1i8UHDcMoxiL3WS66OdwdCBpXVUB2Afz5nxJe+4 FQxA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUn9AEosZgNZMkivHCaxz3tLNWxNXugaxDvAuS/7mmguVa2qWNy WNLUWHK2QJLOtuEW9PeJtclPxkiQlRI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwKBvQR9E9ZnwLjWE+PDhP8rLzDFGjCJPAJMEsN78yOLaW9pdYt6CFT62WWsApo4IJGhPOGxg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:62b:: with SMTP id 11mr3808367qkv.90.1582213692348; Thu, 20 Feb 2020 07:48:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from vhost2 (CPE001143542e1f-CMf81d0f809fa0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com. [99.230.38.42]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z34sm1917553qtd.42.2020.02.20.07.48.11 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Thu, 20 Feb 2020 07:48:11 -0800 (PST) From: Noam Postavsky References: Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2020 10:48:09 -0500 In-Reply-To: ("Elias \=\?iso-8859-1\?Q\?M\=E5rtenson\=22's\?\= message of "Thu, 20 Feb 2020 23:10:43 +0800") Message-ID: <858skxb6py.fsf_-_@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.3 (windows-nt) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) forwarded 39691 https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-apl/2020-02/msg00023= .html # Not an Emacs bug tags 39691 notabug close 39691 quit Elias M=E5rtenson writes: > Please close this issue. I accidentally sent it to the wrong list. Done.