From unknown Fri Jun 20 05:27:06 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#39639 <39639@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#39639 <39639@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 26.3; Sending Mail Manual is a mess between Message/Mail mode Reply-To: bug#39639 <39639@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 12:27:06 +0000 retitle 39639 26.3; Sending Mail Manual is a mess between Message/Mail mode reassign 39639 emacs submitter 39639 Allen Li severity 39639 normal thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Feb 17 03:14:10 2020 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Feb 2020 08:14:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37964 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j3bXd-0000rq-PV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 17 Feb 2020 03:14:10 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:40450) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j3bXc-0000rj-Ma for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 17 Feb 2020 03:14:09 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42811) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1j3bXb-0001Pv-25 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Feb 2020 03:14:08 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1j3bXZ-0002fB-H6 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Feb 2020 03:14:06 -0500 Received: from mail-pl1-x636.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::636]:43577) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1j3bXZ-0002eU-0b for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Feb 2020 03:14:05 -0500 Received: by mail-pl1-x636.google.com with SMTP id p11so6380029plq.10 for ; Mon, 17 Feb 2020 00:14:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=felesatra-moe.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=nDM518twZD2NR6fejqhYGyz7dpwDwO6eMQtKaxR4urI=; b=j487pq6acwnTMR1Z6EHx724H37H0BeNjGns3S83nLhv6kEdtdwGQYeoNG5Ons2lMd1 J5C+RdS6l8xUaVHvvBrEOw/M7N5rqxelpmzFHkD7KPTbbGGFKy/T3VMiuPFHVxvkNspn ZesAlmHtZTvpuyico3QMpvirmTfQC/jyYiNDEFp88mYguUpwGBE0nwVzVXtLWWX4jaaP rffWyrEYndc946lqmzXtDYltxwEllsyjtu0Jgd+ITZBaREicbrU2vD2p13GiAadaNgoc +2qukVX2NZr7DQTtgYr0Z/dfiNDghK32OUOeunuP6HWr+EQ6429gfWkNiinfJ58HjTve 35PA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=nDM518twZD2NR6fejqhYGyz7dpwDwO6eMQtKaxR4urI=; b=HHGYRow4YD2BOiVkMnmMUNNIXmUoDicbnZFSgk3DQYjGt0JhUA+7eVOSIJjKk/rOp8 g8yZZUJqcoTmT0xP/eQ7fmnNDiHNYB+Mw0MiE2tOJENsp2JRLq7zFwPWpl7mws1DoKnq jb/p2zUEW12iTBs3smehLIZrvXLSR8mNPGO9SCeg5eTK/OvPVTmtQBhDLBFR55Ooicsb oQuxgL3ASLfVG5uUXpzBT2kLgZpar+0LtAzBrto1jt8X86H9JYzaucmTKh4Dz+R03fc9 R8iAd2hp7hBVtFViuaKYTUJkBMc0pMcFMk21nqIqtjK91arHDZ698+f2FFeVS+sVoKiQ nC7g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV5vsys+AhlzrGW/zeSFrWZhDVhDXpTh9qkYGRbetqf5WlZ+PMZ rKekpglk5sSgg9BJlQGa087HmuGOiNc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzdw94HUaUpduQYKEzt5gvy3AQmJ3vaEL6JYsNU7mFVkiJmGWErLX7xj32tgWqO3lu5KCbJ6w== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:2ec7:: with SMTP id h7mr18847098pjs.107.1581927243386; Mon, 17 Feb 2020 00:14:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([2600:1700:7270:7d1f:fa59:71ff:fe00:10cc]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b10sm15611179pjo.32.2020.02.17.00.14.02 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 17 Feb 2020 00:14:02 -0800 (PST) From: Allen Li To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 26.3; Sending Mail Manual is a mess between Message/Mail mode Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2020 00:14:02 -0800 Message-ID: <80sgj9aawl.fsf@felesatra.moe> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::636 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain This bug applies to 26.3 and master as of right now. The way sending mail works and is documented is a mess due to the Message mode and Mail mode split. I'll try to point out a few of the problems here: 1. The distinction between message and mail mode is not clearly explained in the manual. That's partly incorrectly, the manual does cover it AT THE END of the Sending Mail section, which is not very useful. The entire preceding section flips back and forth between talking about message and mail mode. 2. The way send-mail-function and message-send-mail-function work is Lovecraftian. The docstrings for both of them claim to control sending mail. The docstrings for both of them point to the other one. As best as I can tell, send-mail-function is used by mail mode, and message-send-mail-function is used by message mode. Message mode is the default now, and the manual mostly documents message mode, but it also only documents send-mail-function. The default value of message-send-mail-function is inferred from send-mail-function when it is first defined. Unfortunately, it doesn't work properly when send-mail-function is customized, I think due to the order in which the respective libraries are loaded (I haven'te debugged yet). The default value of message-send-mail-function is set to sendmail-query-once if send-mail-function is also set to sendmail-query-once. Unfortunately, sendmail-query-once only sets send-mail-function and not message-send-mail-function, so if you use message mode (the default), then the default is to query every single time. So much for "query once". message-send-mail-function should then be inferred from send-mail-function on the next startup, but due to the load order issue mentioned above, this also doesn't work. I have attached two patches improving the situation ever so slightly, but more work is needed here. --=-=-= Content-Type: text/x-patch Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0001-Fix-reference-to-message-send-and-exit.patch >From 6c8921957979c22195732954a95a97c4913d0eae Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Allen Li Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2020 23:45:05 -0800 Subject: [PATCH 1/2] Fix reference to message-send-and-exit Most of the manual here addresses Message mode, and C-c C-c directly above cites the Message mode command, not the Mail mode command. * doc/emacs/sending.texi (Mail Sending): Fix reference --- doc/emacs/sending.texi | 2 +- 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-) diff --git a/doc/emacs/sending.texi b/doc/emacs/sending.texi index 283a59a291..246d6052e0 100644 --- a/doc/emacs/sending.texi +++ b/doc/emacs/sending.texi @@ -340,7 +340,7 @@ Mail Sending @findex message-send @vindex message-kill-buffer-on-exit The usual command to send a message is @kbd{C-c C-c} -(@code{mail-send-and-exit}). This sends the message and then +(@code{message-send-and-exit}). This sends the message and then buries the mail buffer, putting it at the lowest priority for reselection. If you want it to kill the mail buffer instead, change the variable @code{message-kill-buffer-on-exit} to @code{t}. -- 2.25.0 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/x-patch Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0002-Document-message-send-mail-function.patch >From 77991a80ff9b6185b2b466eec25f4fa7d5e181aa Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Allen Li Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2020 23:55:43 -0800 Subject: [PATCH 2/2] Document message-send-mail-function Most of the manual here addresses Message mode, yet talks about send-mail-function which is used for Mail mode. Fixing this completely requires more involved work, but for now at least document the difference here. * doc/emacs/sending.texi (Mail Sending): Clarify manual --- doc/emacs/sending.texi | 7 +++++-- 1 file changed, 5 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-) diff --git a/doc/emacs/sending.texi b/doc/emacs/sending.texi index 246d6052e0..8d3f96139f 100644 --- a/doc/emacs/sending.texi +++ b/doc/emacs/sending.texi @@ -361,9 +361,12 @@ Mail Sending @cindex Feedmail @cindex Sendmail @cindex Mailclient +@vindex message-send-mail-function @vindex send-mail-function - The variable @code{send-mail-function} controls how the message is -delivered. Its value should be one of the following functions: + The variable @code{message-send-mail-function} controls how the +message is delivered (@code{send-mail-function} is used for Mail mode). +The value of @code{send-mail-function} should be one of the following +functions: @table @code @item sendmail-query-once -- 2.25.0 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain In GNU Emacs 26.3 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.10) of 2019-08-29 built on juergen Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12007000 System Description: Arch Linux --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 21 04:06:08 2020 Received: (at 39639-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Feb 2020 09:06:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46379 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j54G8-0004Ed-7Z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Feb 2020 04:06:08 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:45266) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j54G6-0004Dx-1V for 39639-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Feb 2020 04:06:06 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:45288) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1j54G0-0008HO-RC; Fri, 21 Feb 2020 04:06:00 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1204 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1j54Fz-0000G7-Ts; Fri, 21 Feb 2020 04:06:00 -0500 Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 11:05:49 +0200 Message-Id: <83imk0jonm.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Allen Li In-reply-to: <80sgj9aawl.fsf@felesatra.moe> (message from Allen Li on Mon, 17 Feb 2020 00:14:02 -0800) Subject: Re: bug#39639: 26.3; Sending Mail Manual is a mess between Message/Mail mode References: <80sgj9aawl.fsf@felesatra.moe> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 39639-done Cc: 39639-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: Allen Li > Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2020 00:14:02 -0800 > > I have attached two patches improving the situation ever so slightly, > but more work is needed here. Thanks, I installed this on the release branch. (Please in the future make sure to end each sentence in the commit log message with a period.) Patches are welcome to clean up this area of the manual and of the related code. From unknown Fri Jun 20 05:27:06 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 11:24:06 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator