From unknown Mon Jun 23 09:36:34 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#3936 <3936@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#3936 <3936@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 23.0.96; doc string of called-interactively-p Reply-To: bug#3936 <3936@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2025 16:36:34 +0000 retitle 3936 23.0.96; doc string of called-interactively-p reassign 3936 emacs submitter 3936 "Drew Adams" severity 3936 normal thanks From drew.adams@oracle.com Sun Jul 26 13:56:24 2009 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 26 Jul 2009 20:56:24 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 required=4.0 tests=AWL,FOURLA autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n6QKuIZ5016574 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 13:56:19 -0700 Received: from mx10.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:45803) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MVAlV-0004kZ-Pz for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 16:56:17 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MVAlU-0001Kv-6a for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 16:56:17 -0400 Received: from rcsinet11.oracle.com ([148.87.113.123]:43488 helo=rgminet11.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MVAlT-0001Kg-FI for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 16:56:16 -0400 Received: from rgminet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by rgminet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n6QKvxI9028732 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 20:58:00 GMT Received: from abhmt010.oracle.com (abhmt010.oracle.com [141.146.116.19]) by rgminet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n6QKuB4u030281 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 20:56:11 GMT Received: from dradamslap1 (/141.144.232.119) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 13:56:09 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: Subject: 23.0.96; doc string of called-interactively-p Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 13:56:22 -0700 Message-ID: <09B238050EFB472EBBBFDCFF9B184113@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Thread-Index: AcoOM4hslKXwTcZ7Tiq21Cd0fKDc3A== X-Source-IP: abhmt010.oracle.com [141.146.116.19] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090209.4A6CC2EA.0197:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) Doc string: "Return t if the function using this was called with `call-interactively'." The function using this? Using what? This sentence doesn't make sense. In GNU Emacs 23.0.96.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2009-07-09 on SOFT-MJASON Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (3.4)' From bastienguerry@googlemail.com Sun Jul 26 19:04:37 2009 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 27 Jul 2009 02:04:37 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=unavailable version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n6R24Xgf002418 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 19:04:34 -0700 Received: from mail.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:60313 helo=mx10.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MVFZo-0003Rr-MK for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 22:04:32 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MVFZm-0001jc-Li for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 22:04:32 -0400 Received: from mail-px0-f193.google.com ([209.85.216.193]:35131) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MVFZm-0001jT-Bk for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 22:04:30 -0400 Received: by pxi31 with SMTP id 31so1955528pxi.14 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 19:04:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:from:to:cc:subject :in-reply-to:date:references:user-agent:message-id:mime-version :content-type; bh=Qo0C4sO7nBYlvI8to+fWsSRl01J4kaqTMSwKWieBiK8=; b=nOpoe7DUT6nNGpelwKxiQk3uAfNcrTjHARCj6whjJOoPOSu8HSJKVTD3zBP8lvFydG F6rbnsG7j6YXdkrlHjVOt15E/0Sv5fr6WETqqlvLO/pxWi7JbU22qBKoMrvzLAy4yovU oFK9qYSfhAh3eHs0h5W4sFQ+1whjNpMikamt8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:references:user-agent :message-id:mime-version:content-type; b=FMlCHRHKlk+ELIBKm+8kYFcpRHUHQNFy2VYMFKi2h5E0hMEINAEnMTPXIME19ckMBK 1Rror/+55yF2IrRPk1twoD64mJKL7bqRDmQ9Zbxx/GxygPiPlLdsFCppgKU7vHZEXnFX JQVFO1jQZCtRyzdc4cN9TL/j1zIXQk13EDPkk= Received: by 10.140.207.18 with SMTP id e18mr3487466rvg.249.1248660269325; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 19:04:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bzg.ath.cx ([222.29.50.13]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id g22sm19332086rvb.53.2009.07.26.19.04.26 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 26 Jul 2009 19:04:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Bastien To: Drew Adams Cc: 3936@debbugs.gnu.org, Subject: Re: bug#3936: 23.0.96; doc string of called-interactively-p In-Reply-To: <09B238050EFB472EBBBFDCFF9B184113@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Sun, 26 Jul 2009 13:56:22 -0700") Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 10:03:17 +0800 References: <09B238050EFB472EBBBFDCFF9B184113@us.oracle.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.50 (gnu/linux) Message-ID: <878wiaq3tl.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) "Drew Adams" writes: > "Return t if the function using this was called with > `call-interactively'." I replaced this by : Return t if it is in a function called with `call-interactively'. Thanks, -- Bastien From drew.adams@oracle.com Sun Jul 26 23:24:09 2009 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 27 Jul 2009 06:24:10 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.3 required=4.0 tests=AWL,HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=unavailable version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n6R6O6Op011501 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 23:24:07 -0700 Received: from mail.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:55041 helo=mx10.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MVJcz-0004L1-E0 for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 02:24:05 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MVJcx-0001Jq-Sy for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 02:24:05 -0400 Received: from acsinet11.oracle.com ([141.146.126.233]:43325) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MVJcx-0001JW-Ey for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 02:24:03 -0400 Received: from rgminet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by acsinet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n6R6O52V007391 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Jul 2009 06:24:09 GMT Received: from abhmt003.oracle.com (abhmt003.oracle.com [141.146.116.12]) by rgminet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n6R6Nko2009787; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 06:23:46 GMT Received: from dradamslap1 (/141.144.232.119) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 23:23:45 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Bastien'" Cc: <3936@debbugs.gnu.org>, References: <09B238050EFB472EBBBFDCFF9B184113@us.oracle.com> <878wiaq3tl.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> Subject: RE: bug#3936: 23.0.96; doc string of called-interactively-p Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 23:24:03 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <878wiaq3tl.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Thread-Index: AcoOXtvA+QVBLUqcTcCM6bdpnB57LgAI70pg X-Source-IP: abhmt003.oracle.com [141.146.116.12] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A010209.4A6D47F2.005B:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) > > "Return t if the function using this was called with > > `call-interactively'." > > I replaced this by : > > Return t if it is in a function called with `call-interactively'. That's just as bad. What's "it"? I really don't understand what you are trying to say. When does `called-interactively-p' return t? It should be possible to describe that condition. What does the code say? From bastienguerry@googlemail.com Sun Jul 26 23:43:54 2009 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 27 Jul 2009 06:43:54 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 required=4.0 tests=AWL,HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n6R6hnk0014407 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 23:43:50 -0700 Received: from mx10.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:58604) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MVJw4-0004lz-DD for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 02:43:48 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MVJw1-0005CN-GG for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 02:43:47 -0400 Received: from rv-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.198.244]:46644) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MVJw1-0005CG-3T for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 02:43:45 -0400 Received: by rv-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id f25so1222088rvb.6 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 23:43:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:from:to:cc:subject :in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type; bh=zN/7JBYulLYhVoXLbyk9N6TUdpIINXRG//mnwNjjAXg=; b=DM19Yyetqt4I1PRaFO+5ab/WwDQVS76Cnp9QJcDx04A+pDBLgj+64FcQ1wNVeewOF1 Oo5q2Pf7zGDIy8l6TRt28CcTvQQiGG+/NtewyfB4W8awwamaAahPZkJ9jGgLM/zGclfj q/IcQhN+uNmuVAQ55dprltNCEaNhdLg3i0v0g= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date :message-id:mime-version:content-type; b=Iy2MJi0rwBBh8Nwp3ii5stI37AmJqVW0liTc6KkCP8V96A4fYJc0VIvLU13TvAFhPP mRVbVRi3CMess/9c6PXVfbjDOiTjiuNKqazWvrK3a7FQLaFC4NYZ6D8SRzm+Ih9dRnTE pm07eGArkOu/rMf1s7epoq2BGoTX2MLbWacqY= Received: by 10.140.192.14 with SMTP id p14mr3515742rvf.281.1248677024001; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 23:43:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bzg.ath.cx ([222.29.50.13]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id g31sm25662686rvb.56.2009.07.26.23.43.41 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 26 Jul 2009 23:43:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Bastien To: "Drew Adams" Cc: <3936@debbugs.gnu.org>, Subject: Re: bug#3936: 23.0.96; doc string of called-interactively-p In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Sun, 26 Jul 2009 23:24:03 -0700") References: <09B238050EFB472EBBBFDCFF9B184113@us.oracle.com> <878wiaq3tl.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.50 (gnu/linux) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 14:43:36 +0800 Message-ID: <87r5w2lj6v.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) "Drew Adams" writes: >> > "Return t if the function using this was called with >> > `call-interactively'." >> >> I replaced this by : >> >> Return t if it is in a function called with `call-interactively'. > > That's just as bad. Thanks. :) > What's "it"? Usually "it" in a docstring refers to the function/variable the docstring is documenting. At least this is how I understand it. > I really don't understand what you are trying to say. Are you sure? Even the name of this function is very explicit: "call-interactively-p", and I bet you know what it does - so it shouldn't be hard to guess what the docstring is trying to say. > When does `called-interactively-p' return t? When the function in which (call-interactively-p) is has been interactively called with (call-interactively ...) > It should be possible to describe that > condition. What does the code say? Please suggest something better - with this small annoying constraints that the first line has to be quite short. -- Bastien From drew.adams@oracle.com Mon Jul 27 01:18:47 2009 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 27 Jul 2009 08:18:47 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=unavailable version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n6R8IhLJ030306 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 01:18:44 -0700 Received: from mail.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:60485 helo=mx10.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MVLPv-00073V-2D for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 04:18:43 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MVLPt-0008Ea-Ef for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 04:18:42 -0400 Received: from acsinet12.oracle.com ([141.146.126.234]:31517) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MVLPs-0008EC-RD for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 04:18:41 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by acsinet12.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n6R8I8xJ021978 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Jul 2009 08:18:09 GMT Received: from abhmt002.oracle.com (abhmt002.oracle.com [141.146.116.11]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n6R8IcO9029656; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 08:18:38 GMT Received: from dradamslap1 (/141.144.232.119) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 01:18:26 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Bastien'" Cc: <3936@debbugs.gnu.org>, References: <09B238050EFB472EBBBFDCFF9B184113@us.oracle.com><878wiaq3tl.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> <87r5w2lj6v.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> Subject: RE: bug#3936: 23.0.96; doc string of called-interactively-p Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 01:18:45 -0700 Message-ID: <5D6C9B27AFE44D5BA9E8EC53F6BA9CB9@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87r5w2lj6v.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Thread-Index: AcoOha2ifG9C2E9sS/6jb/HhkwLJKgACG/bQ X-Source-IP: abhmt002.oracle.com [141.146.116.11] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A010208.4A6D62D3.001A:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) > > I really don't understand what you are trying to say. > > Are you sure? Even the name of this function is very explicit: > "call-interactively-p", and I bet you know what it does - so it > shouldn't be hard to guess what the docstring is trying to say. (`called-interactively-p', not `call-interactively-p'.) And no, I don't know exactly what it does - its C code is hard for me to follow. Here is what the doc string of `interactive-p' said, back in Emacs 20-21: "Return t if function in which this appears was called interactively." That's a little clearer, though it too speaks of "this". To me, "in which this appears" is clearer than "using this". > > When does `called-interactively-p' return t? > > When the function in which (call-interactively-p) is has been > interactively called with (call-interactively ...) "_interactively_ called with (call-interactively...)" Is it a joke? How about just "called using `call-interactively'"? > > It should be possible to describe that > > condition. What does the code say? > > Please suggest something better - with this small annoying constraints > that the first line has to be quite short. The first line has to be short. The rest doesn't have to be short. See what was said before for `interactive-p' - it's not too bad. In particular, the doc strings of `called-interactively-p' and `interactive-p' should, together, make clear their difference. They can't both just say that they test for an interactive call. They need to speak about keyboard macro use as the difference in behavior. See also bug #3941, preferably before fixing this doc string. The doc of both of these functions is a mess in general, IMO. From bastienguerry@googlemail.com Mon Jul 27 02:17:59 2009 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 27 Jul 2009 09:18:01 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.8 required=4.0 tests=AWL,HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=unavailable version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n6R9Hjwx008136 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 02:17:47 -0700 Received: from mail.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:39649 helo=mx10.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MVML3-0007PH-4L for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 05:17:45 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MVMKz-0003AK-Ag for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 05:17:44 -0400 Received: from rv-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.198.249]:48515) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MVMKy-0003A4-O2 for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 05:17:40 -0400 Received: by rv-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c5so548189rvf.2 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 02:17:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:from:to:cc:subject :in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type; bh=CZZorIv+ATwQZ4XVSPxbVezUn6zTppjawO2XmAA3+4M=; b=D/gb5djMf01ciT195GJCtUEyP63kUC/F5bSTpkO33tD6BeJKUvb4u/WegDmK2lR+kL dOsF99MqceEMGgXCSJSyh3JdAe9lLO6swIbMBr9aqGS9Jxw5m8whdItPwk0WVpjPaBmu 70URbzQmeJMZVMRvKHb2D6n6Vrc+xQ1CLk3EI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date :message-id:mime-version:content-type; b=G3UTfd+Cu6NPG8W6TIL8mQatNahaHoOplkSXBM0/9tVZxVEW4dkjGg/1pX7KDmKaDM o6k7IOgJ/9YQj544EgcveXcMQvmC2JMjkOqt0kC8R/bcVllR+CDPPaJANfhCnGb4vnuP 4hOrUzGYy3l8mwZuXVmvk/luUJtP075eZtU2g= Received: by 10.140.201.8 with SMTP id y8mr3852736rvf.262.1248686259265; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 02:17:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bzg.ath.cx ([222.29.50.13]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f42sm19251128rvb.45.2009.07.27.02.17.36 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 27 Jul 2009 02:17:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Bastien To: Drew Adams Cc: 3936@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#3936: 23.0.96; doc string of called-interactively-p In-Reply-To: <5D6C9B27AFE44D5BA9E8EC53F6BA9CB9@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 27 Jul 2009 01:18:45 -0700") References: <09B238050EFB472EBBBFDCFF9B184113@us.oracle.com> <878wiaq3tl.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> <87r5w2lj6v.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> <5D6C9B27AFE44D5BA9E8EC53F6BA9CB9@us.oracle.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.50 (gnu/linux) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 17:17:32 +0800 Message-ID: <87prbmwklv.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) "Drew Adams" writes: > In particular, the doc strings of `called-interactively-p' and `interactive-p' > should, together, make clear their difference. They can't both just say that > they test for an interactive call. They need to speak about keyboard macro use > as the difference in behavior. Please suggest a docstring for both these functions. If your suggested dosctrings are clearer, we will clearly see it. By trying to explain in a very wordy fashion what is *not* clear to you, you're at risk of not being clear yourself. Thanks, -- Bastien From drew.adams@oracle.com Mon Jul 27 09:04:42 2009 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 27 Jul 2009 16:04:42 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=unavailable version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n6RG4brf015176 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 09:04:38 -0700 Received: from mx10.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:58935) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MVSgm-0007zl-JK for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:04:36 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MVSgk-0001Wj-8o for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:04:36 -0400 Received: from acsinet11.oracle.com ([141.146.126.233]:25842) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MVSgj-0001Vz-IT for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:04:33 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by acsinet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n6RG4dGY029642 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Jul 2009 16:04:40 GMT Received: from abhmt003.oracle.com (abhmt003.oracle.com [141.146.116.12]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n6RG4U5g008792; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 16:04:30 GMT Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 09:04:17 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Bastien'" Cc: <3936@debbugs.gnu.org>, References: <09B238050EFB472EBBBFDCFF9B184113@us.oracle.com><878wiaq3tl.fsf@bzg.ath.cx><87r5w2lj6v.fsf@bzg.ath.cx><5D6C9B27AFE44D5BA9E8EC53F6BA9CB9@us.oracle.com> <87prbmwklv.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> Subject: RE: bug#3936: 23.0.96; doc string of called-interactively-p Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 09:04:17 -0700 Message-ID: <02DB279632ED43DC9D58AC05960C61E1@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87prbmwklv.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Thread-Index: AcoOmzLj2zHg5SI3QqCqRuWrygc07AANqkLA X-Source-IP: abhmt003.oracle.com [141.146.116.12] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A010205.4A6DD003.01C7:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) > > In particular, the doc strings of `called-interactively-p' > > and `interactive-p' should, together, make clear their > > difference. They can't both just say that they test for > > an interactive call. They need to speak about keyboard > > macro use as the difference in behavior. > > Please suggest a docstring for both these functions. > If your suggested dosctrings are clearer, we will clearly see it. > > By trying to explain in a very wordy fashion what is *not* > clear to you, you're at risk of not being clear yourself. I think I was clear enough. Fix the Elisp manual first; the doc strings will follow easily. If you don't understand what I wrote or are unwilling to work on it, perhaps someone else will. The doc is not just unclear; it is wrong/bad, as I pointed out specifically. In addition to the doc problems I listed, there is a non-doc problem: Whoever came up with the new function (in Emacs 22) `called-interactively-p' did the wrong thing, IMO. That function name tells nothing more nor less than the name `interactive-p' - there is nothing in the names that distinguishes these functions. Might as well have named the new function `interactive-p-2' (no, it's not a suggestion). It would have been far better to add an optional argument to `interactive-p' than to create a new, similarly named function. For example: (defun interactive-p (&optional k-macro-p) "Return t if function in which this appears was called interactively. If optional arg K-MACRO-P is non-nil, return t when called during execution of a keyboard macro. If it is nil, return nil in that case. ...[rest of description]" I vote for deprecating one or the other of these two functions, combining them by using an optional argument to express the alternative behaviors. That will go a long way toward clarifying the intended uses. From drew.adams@oracle.com Sun Aug 2 22:15:23 2009 Received: (at 3936) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 3 Aug 2009 05:15:23 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,FVGT_m_MULTI_ODD, HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from rgminet12.oracle.com (rcsinet12.oracle.com [148.87.113.124]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n735FDpi014777 for <3936@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Sun, 2 Aug 2009 22:15:14 -0700 Received: from rgminet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by rgminet12.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n735F5dE002180 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 3 Aug 2009 05:15:06 GMT Received: from abhmt005.oracle.com (abhmt005.oracle.com [141.146.116.14]) by rgminet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n735F67v003648; Mon, 3 Aug 2009 05:15:06 GMT Received: from dradamslap1 (/141.144.224.143) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 02 Aug 2009 22:15:04 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: , <3936@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: bug#3938: 23.0.96; regression: minibuffer-message interferes with C-u Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 22:14:59 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcoP6Ifh6GuucQcbTZm8kQOaWrQRYgALcGMAAPdo3vAAARSS8A== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Source-IP: abhmt005.oracle.com [141.146.116.14] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A010207.4A767259.01CD:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 Taking off the "3938-done" address, I forgot to add back the original recipients, so this would get to the bug list. So here it is again, with the bug list added back as recipient. [It is really a shame that once someone closes a bug you can no longer just reply to the message; you have to reopen the bug and change the recipients... I replied, and my reply was recorded as _me_ closing the bug. What a lame UI... And of course none of that meta-conversation was added to the bug thread, except for a bit by Stefan, who no doubt thought to add the bug list as recipient.] Anyway... -----Original Message----- From: Drew Adams Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 10:07 PM To: 'Chong Yidong' Subject: RE: bug#3938: 23.0.96; regression: minibuffer-message interferes with C-u > 1. That kind of thing should not be necessary. Something has > become overly fragile or things have become overly coupled. > > I'm not "hacking universal-argument this way" or in any way - > I don't redefine it. I just use a different binding for `C-u' > and a different keymap from `universal-argument-map'. (In the > bug report I show that even an exact copy of that map > demonstrates the bug, but in my real code I do use a slightly > different map.) > > All my code does is change the behavior of `C-u' during > completion very slightly, so that the prefix arg is echoed in > the minibuffer using `minibuffer-message'. IOW, instead of > echoing "FOO" as in the bug report, it shows the prefix arg. > In Icicles, you can perform lots of operations during > completion, and you can use `C-u' with those operations. > > That's true for vanilla Emacs too, but it's not as often that > users use `C-u' when editing minibuffer text. Because `C-u' > is used more during completion, Icicles shows the prefix value. > > > 2. As I mentioned, the code for `sit-for' has not changed a > bit between Emacs 22 and 23 (and my code works in Emacs > 22-21-20). Something else must have changed. There should be > no need to replace any of the `sit-for' code. This should not > be happening. There should be no need for such jumping > through hoops and redefining multiple things. > > I appreciate the workaround advice, and I'll look into it as > a temporary Emacs 23 workaround. But how about fixing this > regression? Interrupting `sit-for' with user input should > never cause the full `sit-for' delay to be waited out - > something is amiss. `sit-for' is not `sleep-for'. In case it helps, below is what my code really does, so you can see that I am in no way changing the code of `universal-argument' etc. In each case, I write and use my own function and my own keymap. The code is nearly the same as the original, with the only real change (and the purpose) being to add a minibuffer message that echoes the prefix arg. I hope this regression will be fixed. Thanks. Here you have my complete use of this, so you can better understand. Each function is identical to the original, except in the minor ways indicated: ;; Use my map for overriding terminal local. ;; Same as the definition of `ensure-overriding-map-is-bound', ;; except for using the different map. (defun icicle-ensure-overriding-map-is-bound () (unless overriding-map-is-bound (setq saved-overriding-map overriding-terminal-local-map overriding-terminal-local-map icicle-universal-argument-map overriding-map-is-bound t))) ;; Bound to `C-<0-9>', `M-<0-9>', `C-M-<0-9>' in minibuffer. (defun icicle-digit-argument (arg) "`digit-argument', but also echo the prefix arg." (interactive "P") (let* ((char (if (integerp last-command-char) last-command-char (get last-command-char 'ascii-character))) (digit (- (logand char ?\177) ?0))) (cond ((integerp arg) (setq prefix-arg (+ (* arg 10) (if (< arg 0) (- digit) digit)))) ((eq arg '-) ;; Treat -0 as just -, so that -01 will work. (setq prefix-arg (if (zerop digit) '- (- digit)))) (t (setq prefix-arg digit)))) (setq universal-argument-num-events (length (this-command-keys))) (icicle-ensure-overriding-map-is-bound) (icicle-msg-maybe-in-minibuffer "prefix %S" prefix-arg)) ;; Bound to `M--', `C-M--' in minibuffer. (defun icicle-negative-argument (arg) "`negative-argument', but also echo the prefix arg." (interactive "P") (cond ((integerp arg) (setq prefix-arg (- arg))) ((eq arg '-) (setq prefix-arg nil)) (t (setq prefix-arg '-))) (setq universal-argument-num-events (length (this-command-keys))) (icicle-ensure-overriding-map-is-bound) (icicle-msg-maybe-in-minibuffer "prefix %S" prefix-arg)) ; Bound to `C-u' in minibuffer. (defun icicle-universal-argument () "`universal-argument', but also echo the prefix arg." (interactive) (setq prefix-arg (list 4) universal-argument-num-events (length (this-command-keys))) (icicle-ensure-overriding-map-is-bound) (icicle-msg-maybe-in-minibuffer "prefix %S" prefix-arg)) (defun icicle-universal-argument-more (arg) "`universal-argument-more', but also echo the prefix arg." (interactive "P") (universal-argument-more arg) (icicle-msg-maybe-in-minibuffer "prefix %S" prefix-arg)) (defun icicle-universal-argument-other-key (arg) "`universal-argument-other-key', but also echo the prefix." (interactive "P") (universal-argument-other-key arg) (icicle-msg-maybe-in-minibuffer "prefix %S" prefix-arg)) (defun icicle-universal-argument-minus (arg) "`universal-argument-minus', but also echo the prefix arg." (interactive "P") (universal-argument-minus arg) (icicle-msg-maybe-in-minibuffer "prefix %S" prefix-arg)) (defun icicle-msg-maybe-in-minibuffer (format-string &rest args) "Display FORMAT-STRING as a message. If called with the minibuffer inactive, use `message'. Otherwise, use `minibuffer-message'." (if (active-minibuffer-window) (save-selected-window (select-window (minibuffer-window)) (minibuffer-message (apply #'format (concat " [" format-string "]") args))) (apply #'message format-string args))) ;; Same code as that defining `universal-argument-map', ;; but with the above corresponding functions substituted. (defvar icicle-universal-argument-map (let ((map (make-sparse-keymap))) (define-key map [t] 'icicle-universal-argument-other-key) (define-key map (vector meta-prefix-char t) 'icicle-universal-argument-other-key) (define-key map [switch-frame] nil) (define-key map [?\C-u] 'icicle-universal-argument-more) (define-key map [?-] 'icicle-universal-argument-minus) (define-key map [?0] 'icicle-digit-argument) (define-key map [?1] 'icicle-digit-argument) (define-key map [?2] 'icicle-digit-argument) (define-key map [?3] 'icicle-digit-argument) (define-key map [?4] 'icicle-digit-argument) (define-key map [?5] 'icicle-digit-argument) (define-key map [?6] 'icicle-digit-argument) (define-key map [?7] 'icicle-digit-argument) (define-key map [?8] 'icicle-digit-argument) (define-key map [?9] 'icicle-digit-argument) (define-key map [kp-0] 'icicle-digit-argument) (define-key map [kp-1] 'icicle-digit-argument) (define-key map [kp-2] 'icicle-digit-argument) (define-key map [kp-3] 'icicle-digit-argument) (define-key map [kp-4] 'icicle-digit-argument) (define-key map [kp-5] 'icicle-digit-argument) (define-key map [kp-6] 'icicle-digit-argument) (define-key map [kp-7] 'icicle-digit-argument) (define-key map [kp-8] 'icicle-digit-argument) (define-key map [kp-9] 'icicle-digit-argument) (define-key map [kp-subtract] 'icicle-universal-argument-minus) map) "Keymap used while processing `C-u' during Icicles completion.") ;; Use my `C-u' during completion (only). (define-key minibuffer-local-completion-map (vector 'remap 'universal-argument) 'icicle-universal-argument) Besides this, I think that your suggested workaround has no chance of solving the problem. The problem cannot be in `sit-for', since that code has not changed between Emacs 22 and 23. And this bug is a regression wrt Emacs 22 (and 21, 20...). Thanks for taking another look. From cyd@stupidchicken.com Sat Aug 15 14:52:09 2009 Received: (at 3936-done) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 15 Aug 2009 21:52:09 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 required=4.0 tests=AWL autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from cyd.mit.edu (CYD.MIT.EDU [18.115.2.24]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n7FLq8OX022386 for <3936-done@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:52:09 -0700 Received: by cyd.mit.edu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 21BAE57E21C; Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:53:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Chong Yidong To: 3936-done@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: 23.0.96; doc string of called-interactively-p Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:53:07 -0400 Message-ID: <877hx4n3r0.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I've checked in fixes for the doc strings of interactive-p and called-interactively-p, which should make them clearer. From unknown Mon Jun 23 09:36:34 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 14:24:13 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # A New Hope # A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away # something happened. # # Magically this resulted in the following # action being taken, but this fake control # message doesn't tell you why it happened # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator