From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 06 13:31:15 2020 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jan 2020 18:31:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46779 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ioX9j-0002Od-Uz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2020 13:31:15 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:58180) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ioX9h-0002OV-TA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2020 13:31:11 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47954) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ioX9e-0001eF-Vj for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2020 13:31:09 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ioX9d-0001AH-54 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2020 13:31:06 -0500 Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([178.21.23.139]:48274) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ioX9c-00017I-In for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2020 13:31:05 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by disroot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 889F721AFB for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2020 19:31:01 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at disroot.org Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (disroot.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KuBkXXOlQsPP for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2020 19:30:59 +0100 (CET) From: jorge+list@disroot.org (Jorge P. de Morais Neto) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=disroot.org; s=mail; t=1578335459; bh=54Yk2NyshSeD6KboxVRkQ5QwTjxDEBi5xkhGbYnyVUw=; h=From:To:Subject:Date; b=ZcqDwHzXSXXGRU2eNG+UWfXOL2uOR8MqWt1bzYzonX/l6D2bZWaqI8tiYnb2ZWuHh Q5B+FUw4AuTffNtfXB+cGrMofusOWDc+2Wcvqzv3FNMnVGjAJxogqkIWQd1KvcS3nd vOCEvD7VMwKjYQpvyuuqruSaXmhcPA0mOHtkmtIaoH/wfo8WSNoAd9K27sJV/Yw41N eMwrIgd6c+cYlKBk2zHWccNeIKFSkAtblFB0lFT7aPIxWFnZ8VOvT9Nd4Eq+XQooLI 5uHWVgtojoH1vq/AeCBBY3Zy20ULlk+sXpnVoD1nqAkj3DMJvMfryM0m1OEPUhLt+V fw9LeyCxVD+bw== To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 26.3; EBDB saves the database on Emacs exit even when told not to X-Debbugs-CC: eric@ericabrahamsen.net Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2020 15:30:42 -0300 Message-ID: <87tv58mo8d.fsf@disroot.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 178.21.23.139 X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=ebdb Content-Description: Very small EBDB database to reproduce the error ;; Object ebdb-db-file ;; EBDB file-persistent database (ebdb-db-file "ebdb-db-file" :file "ebdb" :label "File: ebdb" :uuid (ebdb-field-uuid "ebdb-field-uuid" :uuid "4d878781-a0c7-4c1b-8e9b-5ded097a9a89") :sync-time '(24083 31041 155826 700000) :records (list (ebdb-record-person "ebdb-record-person" :uuid (ebdb-field-uuid "ebdb-field-uuid" :uuid "196a6c43-c1cc-4c20-9e8a-23f4e30d4bf7") :creation-date (ebdb-field-creation-date "ebdb-field-creation-date" :timestamp '(24083 31034 623446 825000)) :timestamp (ebdb-field-timestamp "ebdb-field-timestamp" :timestamp '(24083 31046 399326 700000)) :notes (ebdb-field-notes "ebdb-field-notes" :notes "foo") :name (ebdb-field-name-complex "ebdb-field-name-complex" :surname "Doe" :given-names '("John")))) :record-class ebdb-record-person) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Hi. The latest EBDB (0.6.11) saves the database on Emacs exit even when told not to. To reproduce the error on a minimally customized Emacs: 1. Place the attached ebdb database on .emacs.d 2. Start Emacs and invoke M-x ebdb 3. Move to the notes field of the John Doe record 4. Remove the field with C-k 5. Exit EBDB by pressing "q" 6. Hit C-x C-c to exit Emacs. When asked whether to save the EBDB database, answer no. 7. Restart Emacs 8. Invoke M-x ebdb 9. Notice that the database was altered. In GNU Emacs 26.3 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.12) Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12004000 System Description: Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster) Recent messages: For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a. Loading EBDB sources... Initializing EBDB records... done Formatting EBDB...done. Configured using: 'configure CONFIG_SHELL=/gnu/store/29jhbbg1hf557x8j53f9sxd9imlmf02a-bash-minimal-5.0.7/bin/bash SHELL=/gnu/store/29jhbbg1hf557x8j53f9sxd9imlmf02a-bash-minimal-5.0.7/bin/bash --prefix=/gnu/store/hg2qd5ggvnxq5gfdhxqpidhm3rr8vysr-emacs-26.3 --enable-fast-install --with-modules --disable-build-details' Configured features: XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG IMAGEMAGICK SOUND DBUS GSETTINGS GLIB NOTIFY ACL LIBSELINUX GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE M17N_FLT LIBOTF XFT ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS GTK3 X11 XDBE XIM MODULES THREADS Important settings: value of $EMACSLOADPATH: /home/jorge/.guix-profile/share/emacs/site-lisp:/home/jorge/.guix-profile/share/emacs/26.3/lisp value of $LC_MONETARY: pt_BR.UTF-8 value of $LC_NUMERIC: pt_BR.UTF-8 value of $LC_TIME: pt_BR.UTF-8 value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8 locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix Major mode: EBDB Minor modes in effect: tooltip-mode: t global-eldoc-mode: t electric-indent-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t tool-bar-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t blink-cursor-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t buffer-read-only: t line-number-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t Load-path shadows: None found. Features: (shadow sort mail-extr emacsbug message rmc puny dired dired-loaddefs format-spec rfc822 mml mml-sec epa derived epg gnus-util rmail rmail-loaddefs mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 gmm-utils mailheader sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mm-util mail-prsvr mail-utils ebdb-com crm mailabbrev ebdb-format ebdb cl-extra help-mode eieio-opt speedbar sb-image ezimage dframe find-func eieio-base pcase subr-x cal-menu calendar cal-loaddefs map timezone elec-pair finder-inf info package easymenu epg-config url-handlers url-parse auth-source cl-seq eieio eieio-core cl-macs eieio-loaddefs password-cache url-vars guix-emacs rx seq byte-opt gv bytecomp byte-compile cconv cl-loaddefs cl-lib time-date mule-util tooltip eldoc electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel term/x-win x-win term/common-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode elisp-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core term/tty-colors frame cl-generic cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese composite charscript charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev obarray minibuffer cl-preloaded nadvice loaddefs button faces cus-face macroexp files text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote threads dbusbind inotify dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit x multi-tty make-network-process emacs) Memory information: ((conses 16 144067 9239) (symbols 48 24680 2) (miscs 40 88 149) (strings 32 44118 1235) (string-bytes 1 1247821) (vectors 16 22805) (vector-slots 8 639565 8596) (floats 8 55 62) (intervals 56 288 0) (buffers 992 14)) -- - - I am Brazilian. I hope my English is correct and I welcome feedback. - Please adopt free formats like PDF, ODF, Org, LaTeX, Opus, WebM and 7z. - Free/libre software for Replicant, LineageOS and Android: https://f-droid.org - [[https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html][What is free software?]] --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 06 14:51:58 2020 Received: (at 38993) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jan 2020 19:51:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46853 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ioYPu-0006N5-K4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2020 14:51:58 -0500 Received: from ericabrahamsen.net ([52.70.2.18]:48840 helo=mail.ericabrahamsen.net) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ioYPs-0006Mo-Qk for 38993@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2020 14:51:57 -0500 Received: from localhost (c-73-254-86-141.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [73.254.86.141]) (Authenticated sender: eric@ericabrahamsen.net) by mail.ericabrahamsen.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2F06DFA080; Mon, 6 Jan 2020 19:51:50 +0000 (UTC) From: Eric Abrahamsen To: jorge+list@disroot.org (Jorge P. de Morais Neto) Subject: Re: bug#38993: 26.3; EBDB saves the database on Emacs exit even when told not to References: <87tv58mo8d.fsf@disroot.org> Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2020 11:51:48 -0800 In-Reply-To: <87tv58mo8d.fsf@disroot.org> (Jorge P. de Morais Neto's message of "Mon, 06 Jan 2020 15:30:42 -0300") Message-ID: <87y2ukxt0r.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 38993 Cc: 38993@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) jorge+list@disroot.org (Jorge P. de Morais Neto) writes: > Hi. The latest EBDB (0.6.11) saves the database on Emacs exit even when > told not to. To reproduce the error on a minimally customized Emacs: Probably you've also got `ebdb-save-on-exit' set to t -- that adds a save hook to `kill-emacs-hook'. Try setting it to nil. What you're seeing is the `buffer-offer-save' mechanism, which kicks in both when you run `save-some-buffers' and before you kill Emacs. So there's sort of two potential save mechanisms when you exit Emacs. If that's annoying I could also provide an option for not offering to save the database. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 06 16:05:06 2020 Received: (at 38993) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jan 2020 21:05:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46895 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ioZYg-0001nB-GU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2020 16:05:06 -0500 Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([178.21.23.139]:35324) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ioZYe-0001md-Uo for 38993@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2020 16:05:06 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by disroot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 556B622709; Mon, 6 Jan 2020 22:05:00 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at disroot.org Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (disroot.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gy-xuFfT8rNt; Mon, 6 Jan 2020 22:04:58 +0100 (CET) From: Jorge P. de Morais Neto DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=disroot.org; s=mail; t=1578344698; bh=kgBpiJgIq6EC1HLcfWs9bYNcLadK/95p45J1dZ6Uu5I=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=D5pHeD0n+ovmtRJnNtDH4ISGN4A9k9SXwEmmTKnCzzJb+C2cQTqIYKE4tsoRgEsOL eo/b4s/pRf/SQbZb2HdZkRnq7Pv6tVwU3aHQbnC848atpAW+AET0nJR7RXmPVOInzw BVefdsXzJsL30aRImu54ikODVq+UD5eFUfiqO8k3fmQqLLtyankG/FUtRDq7J8n+33 WRLPqxqn0wEZwy3VBA78ig10wDuffIkmnrcmeZZyy4QiAQ9qbCNuolzWT7nZDIxyAQ iE/J0tqsYJLrHwOXCE8eGXfjKa1uFnnKPlgJCA5Jlx7w6yIjYgSIVdPzvq43e9YaFW pbHr0G92NRb6A== To: Eric Abrahamsen Subject: Re: bug#38993: 26.3; EBDB saves the database on Emacs exit even when told not to In-Reply-To: <87y2ukxt0r.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> References: <87tv58mo8d.fsf@disroot.org> <87y2ukxt0r.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2020 18:04:48 -0300 Message-ID: <87v9pofg9b.fsf@disroot.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 38993 Cc: 38993@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Em [2020-01-06 seg 11:51:48-0800], Eric Abrahamsen escreveu: > Probably you've also got `ebdb-save-on-exit' set to t -- that adds a > save hook to `kill-emacs-hook'. Yes, it was t (the default). I actually had read about it on the EBDB manual, but, since Emacs was asking whether to save, I interpreted that variable as whether Emacs would ask at all. That is, I thought that if the variable was t then Emacs would ask whether to save, and if it was nil then Emacs would exit without saving and without any question. > What you're seeing is the `buffer-offer-save' mechanism, which kicks > in both when you run `save-some-buffers' and before you kill Emacs. > So there's sort of two potential save mechanisms when you exit Emacs. > If that's annoying I could also provide an option for not offering to > save the database. The current behavior is a bit counter-intuitive. Not only for the reason I provided above, but because, when I answer the question positively (that I do want to save the buffer), Emacs asks for a file to save the *EBDB* buffer. It then saves _that_ buffer (with its human readable contents) to the just-specified file, and also appears to save the actual database to its file, even though for my test I had previously set `ebdb-save-on-exit' to nil. Apparently, answering positively the buffer-offer-save question causes two saves. Counter-intuitive. And what if the user is confused -- thinking that Emacs was asking whether to save the _actual database_ -- and then provides the path of the database file? Would not EBDB then save the *EBDB* buffer there, overwriting the actual database, causing data loss? Isn't it peculiar to EBDB that Emacs offers to save the computer-generated contents of the *EBDB* buffer on exit? IIRC, when I exit Emacs it does not offer to save my Org Agenda (only the actual Org files from which it generated the agenda), nor Dired buffers, nor any other computer-generated buffer. Regards -- - - I am Brazilian. I hope my English is correct and I welcome feedback. - Please adopt free formats like PDF, ODF, Org, LaTeX, Opus, WebM and 7z. - Free/libre software for Replicant, LineageOS and Android: https://f-droid.org - [[https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html][What is free software?]] From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 06 16:34:05 2020 Received: (at 38993) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jan 2020 21:34:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46911 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ioa0j-0002UV-H3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2020 16:34:05 -0500 Received: from ericabrahamsen.net ([52.70.2.18]:50742 helo=mail.ericabrahamsen.net) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ioa0h-0002U0-5Q for 38993@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2020 16:34:03 -0500 Received: from localhost (c-73-254-86-141.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [73.254.86.141]) (Authenticated sender: eric@ericabrahamsen.net) by mail.ericabrahamsen.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8346DFA080; Mon, 6 Jan 2020 21:33:56 +0000 (UTC) From: Eric Abrahamsen To: Jorge P. de Morais Neto Subject: Re: bug#38993: 26.3; EBDB saves the database on Emacs exit even when told not to References: <87tv58mo8d.fsf@disroot.org> <87y2ukxt0r.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87v9pofg9b.fsf@disroot.org> Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2020 13:33:55 -0800 In-Reply-To: <87v9pofg9b.fsf@disroot.org> (Jorge P. de Morais Neto's message of "Mon, 06 Jan 2020 18:04:48 -0300") Message-ID: <87y2ukw9q4.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 38993 Cc: 38993@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Jorge P. de Morais Neto writes: > Em [2020-01-06 seg 11:51:48-0800], Eric Abrahamsen escreveu: > >> Probably you've also got `ebdb-save-on-exit' set to t -- that adds a >> save hook to `kill-emacs-hook'. > > Yes, it was t (the default). I actually had read about it on the EBDB > manual, but, since Emacs was asking whether to save, I interpreted that > variable as whether Emacs would ask at all. That is, I thought that if > the variable was t then Emacs would ask whether to save, and if it was > nil then Emacs would exit without saving and without any question. I suppose I could have it do that (prompt for saving) rather than saving silently. I guess I just assumed that in most cases users would want the database saved, rather than discarding changes. I don't have very strong feelings about it, though. >> What you're seeing is the `buffer-offer-save' mechanism, which kicks >> in both when you run `save-some-buffers' and before you kill Emacs. >> So there's sort of two potential save mechanisms when you exit Emacs. >> If that's annoying I could also provide an option for not offering to >> save the database. [...] > Isn't it peculiar to EBDB that Emacs offers to save the > computer-generated contents of the *EBDB* buffer on exit? IIRC, when I > exit Emacs it does not offer to save my Org Agenda (only the actual Org > files from which it generated the agenda), nor Dired buffers, nor any > other computer-generated buffer. This is an error, either in Emacs or EBDB, I'm not sure. I originally implemented the ability for special-mode buffers to offer themselves as saveable, but the idea was that, if they saved themselves using their own function, Emacs wouldn't then *also* save the buffer itself in a file. Either my code in Emacs or my code in EBDB has a bug, I haven't gone and figured out which. I'll try to do that soon. Eric From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 07 06:53:30 2020 Received: (at 38993) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jan 2020 11:53:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47459 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ionQQ-0000DG-9G for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Jan 2020 06:53:30 -0500 Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([178.21.23.139]:36676) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ionQM-0000D2-Ud for 38993@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Jan 2020 06:53:27 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by disroot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C40E212C1; Tue, 7 Jan 2020 12:53:22 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at disroot.org Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (disroot.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dPYgNi05ZiTe; Tue, 7 Jan 2020 12:53:21 +0100 (CET) From: Jorge P. de Morais Neto DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=disroot.org; s=mail; t=1578398001; bh=9NlSVPlcxUOdw6Ag2vhNX6QdbEc2N79+VlLxzqaoKEU=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=QWzeH5p2lDvzLjMwzKrqfLy/xuzu1yHOB+bvY2XFtoasT1HHrvOik+IIjdjr0oDtb h9a2+hpctMQoF+/CEHh6MHj49XSTz8YyAMDt9Xd58uz6kCZJJRBvZ3IvdWTT9VWCGz cb0JexUj2XSJ1CT4rK/xh4V7OxCaJzpdvb2VZ5gJ5I6ZkNYIpxpqPgiQzZx7p30Q6v j9TxFQFoMP+SO9emQQmMws1xFH32bb+QZCfbsw0sJnkyXkfNJmv4SEGM54y9/+5nW7 IEkh5oqLxrdY8IiBL7hkbaeCk6AWJagvqDwmRRucqKmMet/P9lpcLlJBniDZCOjpLe zEov8y4n/zZ3w== To: Eric Abrahamsen Subject: Re: bug#38993: 26.3; EBDB saves the database on Emacs exit even when told not to In-Reply-To: <87y2ukw9q4.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> References: <87tv58mo8d.fsf@disroot.org> <87y2ukxt0r.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87v9pofg9b.fsf@disroot.org> <87y2ukw9q4.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2020 08:53:09 -0300 Message-ID: <87ftgr1o0q.fsf@disroot.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 38993 Cc: 38993@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Em [2020-01-06 seg 13:33:55-0800], Eric Abrahamsen escreveu: > I suppose I could have it do that (prompt for saving) rather than > saving silently. I guess I just assumed that in most cases users > would want the database saved, rather than discarding changes. I > don't have very strong feelings about it, though. In principle I want consistency with the rest of GNU Emacs. IIRC, Emacs generally does not overwrite without asking. There is the auto-save functionality, but it saves to *separate* files. However I should disclaim that I have never studied human-machine interaction and I too do not have strong feelings about this. > This is an error, either in Emacs or EBDB, I'm not sure. I originally > implemented the ability for special-mode buffers to offer themselves > as saveable, but the idea was that, if they saved themselves using > their own function, Emacs wouldn't then *also* save the buffer itself > in a file. > > Either my code in Emacs or my code in EBDB has a bug, I haven't gone > and figured out which. I'll try to do that soon. Yes, by default Emacs should not ask to save the computer-generated "*EBDB*" buffer. Regarding the database, I think that if `ebdb-save-on-exit' is nil then either: 1. Emacs should not ask to save the database on exit; or 2. The EBDB documentation should explicitly mention that Emacs will ask; and the behavior should be altered so that, when the user answers no, then Emacs should not save the database. Oh, and thank you for this great package! Do you have a mechanism for accepting donations? I unfortunately would donate just a little at this moment, but I intend to donate more in the future when my financial situation improves and/or the Brazilian Real gains value against the US dollar. Also, even very small donations may add up. Regards -- - - I am Brazilian. I hope my English is correct and I welcome feedback. - Please adopt free formats like PDF, ODF, Org, LaTeX, Opus, WebM and 7z. - Free/libre software for Replicant, LineageOS and Android: https://f-droid.org - [[https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html][What is free software?]] From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 07 13:43:06 2020 Received: (at 38993) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jan 2020 18:43:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49284 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ioton-00025z-Rn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Jan 2020 13:43:06 -0500 Received: from ericabrahamsen.net ([52.70.2.18]:45310 helo=mail.ericabrahamsen.net) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iotom-00025W-Ff for 38993@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Jan 2020 13:43:05 -0500 Received: from localhost (c-73-254-86-141.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [73.254.86.141]) (Authenticated sender: eric@ericabrahamsen.net) by mail.ericabrahamsen.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 122CDFA090; Tue, 7 Jan 2020 18:42:57 +0000 (UTC) From: Eric Abrahamsen To: Jorge P. de Morais Neto Subject: Re: bug#38993: 26.3; EBDB saves the database on Emacs exit even when told not to References: <87tv58mo8d.fsf@disroot.org> <87y2ukxt0r.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87v9pofg9b.fsf@disroot.org> <87y2ukw9q4.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87ftgr1o0q.fsf@disroot.org> Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2020 10:42:55 -0800 In-Reply-To: <87ftgr1o0q.fsf@disroot.org> (Jorge P. de Morais Neto's message of "Tue, 07 Jan 2020 08:53:09 -0300") Message-ID: <87zhezt8eo.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 38993 Cc: 38993@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Jorge P. de Morais Neto writes: > Em [2020-01-06 seg 13:33:55-0800], Eric Abrahamsen escreveu: > >> I suppose I could have it do that (prompt for saving) rather than >> saving silently. I guess I just assumed that in most cases users >> would want the database saved, rather than discarding changes. I >> don't have very strong feelings about it, though. > > In principle I want consistency with the rest of GNU Emacs. IIRC, Emacs > generally does not overwrite without asking. There is the auto-save > functionality, but it saves to *separate* files. However I should > disclaim that I have never studied human-machine interaction and I too > do not have strong feelings about this. Yes, I think consistency is the best thing to aim for. FWIW, what we're talking about isn't auto-save (EBDB has its own mechanism for auto-save, which is silent), but about behavior during `save-some-buffers'. >> This is an error, either in Emacs or EBDB, I'm not sure. I originally >> implemented the ability for special-mode buffers to offer themselves >> as saveable, but the idea was that, if they saved themselves using >> their own function, Emacs wouldn't then *also* save the buffer itself >> in a file. >> >> Either my code in Emacs or my code in EBDB has a bug, I haven't gone >> and figured out which. I'll try to do that soon. > > Yes, by default Emacs should not ask to save the computer-generated > "*EBDB*" buffer. Regarding the database, I think that if > `ebdb-save-on-exit' is nil then either: > 1. Emacs should not ask to save the database on exit; or > 2. The EBDB documentation should explicitly mention that Emacs will ask; > and the behavior should be altered so that, when the user answers no, > then Emacs should not save the database. The problems is that, when you exit Emacs, it first runs `save-some-buffers' -- which will prompt the user to possibly save the database -- and then runs the `kill-emacs-hook'. So if you've said "don't save" to the `save-some-buffers' prompt, the kill emacs hook doesn't know that, and might save the database anyway. To complicate things, the save-some-buffers prompt only runs if you have live *EBDB* buffers. It's entirely possible to have a loaded database with unsaved changes, but no buffers, in which case `save-some-buffers' won't do anything at all. Give me a bit to chew on this. I think I have a sense of the desired behavior, it will just be a matter of getting to it. > Oh, and thank you for this great package! Do you have a mechanism for > accepting donations? I unfortunately would donate just a little at this > moment, but I intend to donate more in the future when my financial > situation improves and/or the Brazilian Real gains value against the US > dollar. Also, even very small donations may add up. I'm glad it's useful to you! I hadn't really thought about donations, I suppose it makes me a tiny bit uncomfortable. But I see Github has a sponsorship thing, I suppose it wouldn't hurt to sign up! Eric From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 08 08:28:44 2020 Received: (at 38993) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jan 2020 13:28:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49871 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ipBO7-00069A-QU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 08 Jan 2020 08:28:44 -0500 Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([178.21.23.139]:58642) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ipBO5-00068y-Dt for 38993@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 08 Jan 2020 08:28:42 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by disroot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D944223EC9; Wed, 8 Jan 2020 14:28:36 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at disroot.org Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (disroot.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YS4lr0S_P3c0; Wed, 8 Jan 2020 14:28:35 +0100 (CET) From: Jorge P. de Morais Neto DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=disroot.org; s=mail; t=1578490115; bh=y2dlirx8KdKy186zzDPYNaOJjV/aQOdad3IbvP2R+tw=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=M8YpK0yUROhhbIzM3Sv1yQKiNVCmweNPs5hGeTOC0fX5EzzXsAlvInsKZeow2ZFmZ z72UbOddwMDpSTxr9Lk9LTOlQ6ABDe2Q5ZK9ovCgmN5xMP6Uho2lMIpwYR531IkeDH JVA7xyvOZYwnLddQay8vZqDKjhuJ1NDUrb+B3WKZyI9H4HX5STx7ArWgVvW7JPqLgx lNBJfaCU01oIaqt7iuy38NIqX8BsVQ2xNH6H4udmg6Ly26KzJNtarBVbrkKR3y4Bvl D1uyDetMDbKYpI1ek87VP9PHQOVzV6GTy+waznvFYbqFRt5tEjKdyXxFKlWPwr9ypL yrJNkQr2fAXqg== To: Eric Abrahamsen Subject: Re: bug#38993: 26.3; EBDB saves the database on Emacs exit even when told not to In-Reply-To: <87zhezt8eo.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> References: <87tv58mo8d.fsf@disroot.org> <87y2ukxt0r.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87v9pofg9b.fsf@disroot.org> <87y2ukw9q4.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87ftgr1o0q.fsf@disroot.org> <87zhezt8eo.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2020 10:28:23 -0300 Message-ID: <87lfqi9ix4.fsf@disroot.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 38993 Cc: 38993@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Em [2020-01-07 ter 10:42:55-0800], Eric Abrahamsen escreveu: > Jorge P. de Morais Neto writes: > >> In principle I want consistency with the rest of GNU Emacs. IIRC, >> Emacs generally does not overwrite without asking. There is the >> auto-save functionality, but it saves to *separate* files. > > Yes, I think consistency is the best thing to aim for. Good. > FWIW, what we're talking about isn't auto-save I know. I only mentioned Emacs auto-save as a generic example that (IIRC) Emacs never overwrites user data without asking, regardless of mechanism. Oh, and in my quick testing in Spacemacs (this time I didn't start a minimally customized instance), setting `ebdb-save-on-exit' to nil (either with `setq' or with Customize) has no effect if EBDB is already open. I believe it would be better to change this behavior. One reason is that it is counter-intuitive. Another is that the user might open EBDB, make some changes and then realize she does not want to persist them. > I'm glad it's useful to you! I hadn't really thought about donations, > I suppose it makes me a tiny bit uncomfortable. But I see Github has > a sponsorship thing, I suppose it wouldn't hurt to sign up! Good! It would be even better if you had a more free-software-friendly mechanism of donation. Maybe Liberapay? By the way, if you could entirely move away from GitHub, some of us would be happier. Regards -- - - I am Brazilian. I hope my English is correct and I welcome feedback. - Please adopt free formats like PDF, ODF, Org, LaTeX, Opus, WebM and 7z. - Free/libre software for Replicant, LineageOS and Android: https://f-droid.org - [[https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html][What is free software?]] From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 08 13:54:49 2020 Received: (at 38993) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jan 2020 18:54:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51295 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ipGTh-0006Rh-JT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 08 Jan 2020 13:54:49 -0500 Received: from ericabrahamsen.net ([52.70.2.18]:45654 helo=mail.ericabrahamsen.net) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ipGTf-0006RU-7D for 38993@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 08 Jan 2020 13:54:48 -0500 Received: from localhost (c-73-254-86-141.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [73.254.86.141]) (Authenticated sender: eric@ericabrahamsen.net) by mail.ericabrahamsen.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0B341FA080; Wed, 8 Jan 2020 18:54:40 +0000 (UTC) From: Eric Abrahamsen To: Jorge P. de Morais Neto Subject: Re: bug#38993: 26.3; EBDB saves the database on Emacs exit even when told not to References: <87tv58mo8d.fsf@disroot.org> <87y2ukxt0r.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87v9pofg9b.fsf@disroot.org> <87y2ukw9q4.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87ftgr1o0q.fsf@disroot.org> <87zhezt8eo.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87lfqi9ix4.fsf@disroot.org> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2020 10:54:35 -0800 In-Reply-To: <87lfqi9ix4.fsf@disroot.org> (Jorge P. de Morais Neto's message of "Wed, 08 Jan 2020 10:28:23 -0300") Message-ID: <871rs9dbis.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 38993 Cc: 38993@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Jorge P. de Morais Neto writes: [...] > Oh, and in my quick testing in Spacemacs (this time I didn't start a > minimally customized instance), setting `ebdb-save-on-exit' to nil > (either with `setq' or with Customize) has no effect if EBDB is already > open. I believe it would be better to change this behavior. One reason > is that it is counter-intuitive. Another is that the user might open > EBDB, make some changes and then realize she does not want to persist > them. Okay, I guess that would work: always add a hook, but only actually do the save if `ebdb-save-on-exit' is t. So if you have open *EBDB* buffers, and unsaved changes, but you set `ebdb-save-on-exit' to nil, then when you kill Emacs you'll still get prompted to save EBDB, but if you say "no" then nothing further will happen. Note that you can (I think) also dump unsaved changes by running `ebdb-reload-database' on the database in question. Come to think of it, that command should ask for confirmation before reloading, if the database has unsaved changes. >> I'm glad it's useful to you! I hadn't really thought about donations, >> I suppose it makes me a tiny bit uncomfortable. But I see Github has >> a sponsorship thing, I suppose it wouldn't hurt to sign up! > > Good! It would be even better if you had a more free-software-friendly > mechanism of donation. Maybe Liberapay? By the way, if you could > entirely move away from GitHub, some of us would be happier. Oh, Liberapay looks good! I realized GitHub Sponsors only lets you set up recurring monthly payments, which doesn't seem very likely. Anyway, I have no real expectations. I have an account at SourceHut, which is very FOSS-friendly, but so far haven't put any repos there, maybe I could consider moving. Eric From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 11 16:16:05 2020 Received: (at 38993) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jan 2020 21:16:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56777 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iqO73-0002sK-HY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 Jan 2020 16:16:05 -0500 Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([178.21.23.139]:49122) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iqO70-0002rb-0d for 38993@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 Jan 2020 16:16:04 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by disroot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B1D538333; Sat, 11 Jan 2020 22:15:57 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at disroot.org Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (disroot.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ou7IQqs6yVIc; Sat, 11 Jan 2020 22:15:55 +0100 (CET) From: Jorge P. de Morais Neto DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=disroot.org; s=mail; t=1578777355; bh=dkAfnf6U68OFSHZieorN33Qo6mda9skbg8NjLYKrOrw=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=irKMV0r+TC8/ja8bM4a5fDdc/d9Bu7VPwpSUygjg8moo7WaVbg/J9OcL4yech9nk0 uZfF2reuVXZBoH+g7bk1ws6Q7CePuBM7hIJvD/Ui6GeJc1vnexGZVf1oi8izp/QHjN M5ljKB0pqAZzxMJHMuz/OYQXAoaiYn6yGCtM73iYc+MNcBeq9YDXZbDoQtP0Quj8Uy 6S3PLaRIqndGdaaxZvGgO87JRA91Ex+pMkgnrcId4g1OR1tiI5A3m0gXSv3fAXYuMX jrtZRNWjhqB4H/64Aw6KatMpQ20O0ngIk4ZW0lc6CO+CmAgew8NuloMZSvovL2KBPE Yo+QnU6VKm04A== To: Eric Abrahamsen Subject: Re: bug#38993: 26.3; EBDB saves the database on Emacs exit even when told not to In-Reply-To: <871rs9dbis.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> References: <87tv58mo8d.fsf@disroot.org> <87y2ukxt0r.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87v9pofg9b.fsf@disroot.org> <87y2ukw9q4.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87ftgr1o0q.fsf@disroot.org> <87zhezt8eo.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87lfqi9ix4.fsf@disroot.org> <871rs9dbis.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 18:15:42 -0300 Message-ID: <87k15xvgn5.fsf@disroot.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 38993 Cc: 38993@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Em [2020-01-08 qua 10:54:35-0800], Eric Abrahamsen escreveu: > Okay, I guess that would work: always add a hook, but only actually do > the save if `ebdb-save-on-exit' is t. So if you have open *EBDB* > buffers, and unsaved changes, but you set `ebdb-save-on-exit' to nil, > then when you kill Emacs you'll still get prompted to save EBDB, but if > you say "no" then nothing further will happen. That would be a step in the right direction. In addition to this you could improve the weird (and arguably harmful) EBDB idiosyncrasies that we previously talked about: 1. misleading the user by asking whether to save but then, if `ebdb-save-on-exit' is t, saving the database anyway even if the user answered in the negative; and 2. saving the "*EBDB*" buffer itself, which I believe is not useful. And the `ebdb-save-on-exit' option could be renamed to `ebdb-silently-save-on-exit', or, if that is too verbose, then at least its documentation should emphasize that Emacs will save with no questions asked. > I have an account at SourceHut, which is very FOSS-friendly, but so > far haven't put any repos there, maybe I could consider moving. You might want to consult , as well as discussing the options with the free software community on IRC or XMPP. I myself have chosen GitLab to host my very simple static website. I based the decision on GitLab's features, ease of use, and the C ethics grade from the FSF, a grade which seemed acceptable to me. However I later learned that, at least according to the aforementioned LibrePlanet page, the GitLab ethics evaluation regressed. I guess I should move away from it. By the way, if you forgive my impertinence, I suggest saying "free/libre" rather than "FLOSS", or, even worse, "FOSS". Please see . Regards -- - - I am Brazilian. I hope my English is correct and I welcome feedback. - Please adopt free formats like PDF, ODF, Org, LaTeX, Opus, WebM and 7z. - Free/libre software for Replicant, LineageOS and Android: https://f-droid.org - [[https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html][What is free software?]] From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 12 12:38:30 2020 Received: (at 38993) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jan 2020 17:38:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57888 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iqhC2-0002nb-JE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Jan 2020 12:38:30 -0500 Received: from ericabrahamsen.net ([52.70.2.18]:34244 helo=mail.ericabrahamsen.net) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iqhC0-0002nL-B6 for 38993@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Jan 2020 12:38:29 -0500 Received: from localhost (c-73-254-86-141.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [73.254.86.141]) (Authenticated sender: eric@ericabrahamsen.net) by mail.ericabrahamsen.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C4E87FA080; Sun, 12 Jan 2020 17:38:21 +0000 (UTC) From: Eric Abrahamsen To: Jorge P. de Morais Neto Subject: Re: bug#38993: 26.3; EBDB saves the database on Emacs exit even when told not to References: <87tv58mo8d.fsf@disroot.org> <87y2ukxt0r.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87v9pofg9b.fsf@disroot.org> <87y2ukw9q4.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87ftgr1o0q.fsf@disroot.org> <87zhezt8eo.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87lfqi9ix4.fsf@disroot.org> <871rs9dbis.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87k15xvgn5.fsf@disroot.org> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2020 09:38:20 -0800 In-Reply-To: <87k15xvgn5.fsf@disroot.org> (Jorge P. de Morais Neto's message of "Sat, 11 Jan 2020 18:15:42 -0300") Message-ID: <87lfqcpoc3.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 38993 Cc: 38993@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Jorge P. de Morais Neto writes: > Em [2020-01-08 qua 10:54:35-0800], Eric Abrahamsen escreveu: > >> Okay, I guess that would work: always add a hook, but only actually do >> the save if `ebdb-save-on-exit' is t. So if you have open *EBDB* >> buffers, and unsaved changes, but you set `ebdb-save-on-exit' to nil, >> then when you kill Emacs you'll still get prompted to save EBDB, but if >> you say "no" then nothing further will happen. > > That would be a step in the right direction. In addition to this you > could improve the weird (and arguably harmful) EBDB idiosyncrasies that > we previously talked about: > > 1. misleading the user by asking whether to save but then, if > `ebdb-save-on-exit' is t, saving the database anyway even if the user > answered in the negative; and > 2. saving the "*EBDB*" buffer itself, which I believe is not useful. > > And the `ebdb-save-on-exit' option could be renamed to > `ebdb-silently-save-on-exit', or, if that is too verbose, then at least > its documentation should emphasize that Emacs will save with no > questions asked. I've already fixed #2 above, I just haven't made a new release yet (I'll try to get the rest of the bugs you raised fixed first). I still don't have a good solution for the first problem. I guess what I'm leaning toward is 1: adding a note to the documentation/manual about this weirdness, and 2: defaulting `ebdb-save-on-exit' to nil. The average user will be using EBDB interactively, meaning that they'll get the prompt both at "C-x s" and when killing Emacs. The `ebdb-save-on-exit' option could be reserved for hackers who are using EBDB in some more peculiar fashion. >> I have an account at SourceHut, which is very FOSS-friendly, but so >> far haven't put any repos there, maybe I could consider moving. > > You might want to consult > , as well as > discussing the options with the free software community on IRC or XMPP. > I myself have chosen GitLab to host my very simple static website. I > based the decision on GitLab's features, ease of use, and the C ethics > grade from the FSF, a grade which seemed acceptable to me. However I > later learned that, at least according to the aforementioned LibrePlanet > page, the GitLab ethics evaluation regressed. I guess I should move > away from it. It looks to me like SourceHut is licensed under the GPL (https://git.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/git.sr.ht/tree/master/LICENSE), so I'm hoping that's an A! Or at least a B. > By the way, if you forgive my impertinence, I suggest saying > "free/libre" rather than "FLOSS", or, even worse, "FOSS". Please see > . Thanks for that! No impertinence, I'll admit it's something I haven't read or really thought much about before. I'll be aware of it from here on out. Thanks, Eric From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 14 09:13:18 2020 Received: (at 38993) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jan 2020 14:13:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60823 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1irMwT-0002UK-Dh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Jan 2020 09:13:18 -0500 Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([178.21.23.139]:46992) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1irMwO-0002U4-8Y for 38993@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Jan 2020 09:13:12 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by disroot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9835925BC6; Tue, 14 Jan 2020 15:13:02 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at disroot.org Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (disroot.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4jQojz3KpayZ; Tue, 14 Jan 2020 15:13:01 +0100 (CET) From: Jorge P. de Morais Neto DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=disroot.org; s=mail; t=1579011181; bh=f0iXR4C5KUas7dX6wgVV65Ym0h96APYjWZh1Sk+Tnvk=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=NJc6qVZNRltyo/5rPtcWZUg6AboV308qFEw3CPkAwfYusjoLUzd9gCnnikSGlscEK mt5ltxlwp1QMDXMWpP4pMYWAiL3Pn5qAVFmRfMxwC5KIdkwz4QXr6NaHOEBiRnSqQV /8b9H3JPKWWxAJONJRWXx70T0eCd8MkkjME7iJHoY/LPkodebl/yxUArjsVx3km+dt 8eJEOdN3w6m1XBAXj2nU0db3hIF0WbIEuFkMiCZ1FewHmii7DfTHrqDNBuIFU2schf EbsdcWsLLofvmaEkqosq8WXG3EU0lhWD9ser50eNuIA9AJknn3tTmVuiIaxlc3/4hF 6/qadPbYCv/Ow== To: Eric Abrahamsen Subject: Re: bug#38993: 26.3; EBDB saves the database on Emacs exit even when told not to In-Reply-To: <87lfqcpoc3.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> References: <87tv58mo8d.fsf@disroot.org> <87y2ukxt0r.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87v9pofg9b.fsf@disroot.org> <87y2ukw9q4.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87ftgr1o0q.fsf@disroot.org> <87zhezt8eo.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87lfqi9ix4.fsf@disroot.org> <871rs9dbis.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87k15xvgn5.fsf@disroot.org> <87lfqcpoc3.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 11:12:43 -0300 Message-ID: <87pnfm2kkk.fsf@disroot.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 38993 Cc: 38993@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Em [2020-01-12 dom 09:38:20-0800], Eric Abrahamsen escreveu: > I still don't have a good solution for the first problem. I guess > what I'm leaning toward is 1: adding a note to the > documentation/manual about this weirdness, and 2: defaulting > `ebdb-save-on-exit' to nil. The average user will be using EBDB > interactively, meaning that they'll get the prompt both at "C-x s" and > when killing Emacs. The `ebdb-save-on-exit' option could be reserved > for hackers who are using EBDB in some more peculiar fashion. I think that would be consistent with the rest of Emacs and even other desktop applications like LibreOffice. But EBDB also has auto-save (as in Emacs 26.3 manual section 18.6 -- "Auto-Saving: Protection Against Disasters"), right? > It looks to me like SourceHut is licensed under the GPL > (https://git.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/git.sr.ht/tree/master/LICENSE), so I'm > hoping that's an A! Or at least a B. I lack knowledge of the situation and feel insecure myself in the choice of software forge, but still I would like give you the following URL: > Thanks for that! No impertinence, I'll admit it's something I haven't > read or really thought much about before. I'll be aware of it from here > on out. Nice! Regards -- - - I am Brazilian. I hope my English is correct and I welcome feedback. - Please adopt free formats like PDF, ODF, Org, LaTeX, Opus, WebM and 7z. - Free/libre software for Replicant, LineageOS and Android: https://f-droid.org - [[https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html][What is free software?]] From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 14 17:53:17 2020 Received: (at 38993) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jan 2020 22:53:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33858 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1irV3l-0002nm-Fl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Jan 2020 17:53:17 -0500 Received: from ericabrahamsen.net ([52.70.2.18]:34356 helo=mail.ericabrahamsen.net) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1irV3i-0002nR-T3 for 38993@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Jan 2020 17:53:15 -0500 Received: from localhost (c-73-254-86-141.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [73.254.86.141]) (Authenticated sender: eric@ericabrahamsen.net) by mail.ericabrahamsen.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6C34FFA080; Tue, 14 Jan 2020 22:53:08 +0000 (UTC) From: Eric Abrahamsen To: Jorge P. de Morais Neto Subject: Re: bug#38993: 26.3; EBDB saves the database on Emacs exit even when told not to References: <87tv58mo8d.fsf@disroot.org> <87y2ukxt0r.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87v9pofg9b.fsf@disroot.org> <87y2ukw9q4.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87ftgr1o0q.fsf@disroot.org> <87zhezt8eo.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87lfqi9ix4.fsf@disroot.org> <871rs9dbis.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87k15xvgn5.fsf@disroot.org> <87lfqcpoc3.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87pnfm2kkk.fsf@disroot.org> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 14:53:07 -0800 In-Reply-To: <87pnfm2kkk.fsf@disroot.org> (Jorge P. de Morais Neto's message of "Tue, 14 Jan 2020 11:12:43 -0300") Message-ID: <87k15tlkfg.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 38993 Cc: 38993@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Jorge P. de Morais Neto writes: > Em [2020-01-12 dom 09:38:20-0800], Eric Abrahamsen escreveu: > >> I still don't have a good solution for the first problem. I guess >> what I'm leaning toward is 1: adding a note to the >> documentation/manual about this weirdness, and 2: defaulting >> `ebdb-save-on-exit' to nil. The average user will be using EBDB >> interactively, meaning that they'll get the prompt both at "C-x s" and >> when killing Emacs. The `ebdb-save-on-exit' option could be reserved >> for hackers who are using EBDB in some more peculiar fashion. > > I think that would be consistent with the rest of Emacs and even other > desktop applications like LibreOffice. Cool, that's done. > But EBDB also has auto-save (as in Emacs 26.3 manual section 18.6 -- > "Auto-Saving: Protection Against Disasters"), right? Yes, but personally I shut it off on my databases because the eieio-persistent save routine is horribly slow, and I don't want my Emacs locking up for several seconds when auto-saving is happening. >> It looks to me like SourceHut is licensed under the GPL >> (https://git.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/git.sr.ht/tree/master/LICENSE), so I'm >> hoping that's an A! Or at least a B. > > I lack knowledge of the situation and feel insecure myself in the choice > of software forge, but still I would like give you the following URL: > Oh I know :) I don't put anything in there I don't have mirrored elsewhere. But I do pay for my account, so the maintainer can get to beta faster. New release as soon as I've got the Org tags thing fixed... From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 18 14:38:39 2020 Received: (at 38993) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Jan 2020 19:38:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42214 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1istvb-0003qg-9b for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 18 Jan 2020 14:38:39 -0500 Received: from ericabrahamsen.net ([52.70.2.18]:51372 helo=mail.ericabrahamsen.net) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1istvY-0003qN-6W; Sat, 18 Jan 2020 14:38:37 -0500 Received: from localhost (c-73-254-86-141.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [73.254.86.141]) (Authenticated sender: eric@ericabrahamsen.net) by mail.ericabrahamsen.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2E210FA9AC; Sat, 18 Jan 2020 19:38:30 +0000 (UTC) From: Eric Abrahamsen To: Jorge P. de Morais Neto Subject: Re: bug#38993: 26.3; EBDB saves the database on Emacs exit even when told not to References: <87tv58mo8d.fsf@disroot.org> <87y2ukxt0r.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87v9pofg9b.fsf@disroot.org> <87y2ukw9q4.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87ftgr1o0q.fsf@disroot.org> <87zhezt8eo.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87lfqi9ix4.fsf@disroot.org> <871rs9dbis.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87k15xvgn5.fsf@disroot.org> <87lfqcpoc3.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87pnfm2kkk.fsf@disroot.org> <87k15tlkfg.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2020 11:38:28 -0800 In-Reply-To: <87k15tlkfg.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> (Eric Abrahamsen's message of "Tue, 14 Jan 2020 14:53:07 -0800") Message-ID: <87v9p8o8qz.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 38993 Cc: 38993@debbugs.gnu.org, 38993-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eric Abrahamsen writes: [...] > New release as soon as I've got the Org tags thing fixed... That's taking too long, so I've done a bugfix release in the meantime, and am closing this. Thanks, Eric From unknown Sat Aug 09 09:34:36 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2020 12:24:05 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator