From unknown Sat Aug 16 10:41:41 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#3873 <3873@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#3873 <3873@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 23.1.50; docstring of `region-active-p' is nonsensical Reply-To: bug#3873 <3873@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2025 17:41:41 +0000 retitle 3873 23.1.50; docstring of `region-active-p' is nonsensical reassign 3873 emacs submitter 3873 MON KEY severity 3873 normal thanks From stan@derbycityprints.com Fri Jul 17 11:05:14 2009 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 17 Jul 2009 18:05:14 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.9 required=4.0 tests=AWL,FOURLA,MURPHY_DRUGS_REL8 autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n6HI57Hu008615 for ; Fri, 17 Jul 2009 11:05:09 -0700 Received: from mx10.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:51756) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MRrnu-0005ig-U4 for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Jul 2009 14:05:06 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MRrns-0007oN-5S for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Jul 2009 14:05:06 -0400 Received: from mail-gx0-f219.google.com ([209.85.217.219]:44505) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MRrnr-0007oF-Tf for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Jul 2009 14:05:04 -0400 Received: by gxk19 with SMTP id 19so1778731gxk.18 for ; Fri, 17 Jul 2009 11:05:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: stan@derbycityprints.com Received: by 10.150.195.3 with SMTP id s3mr2395958ybf.97.1247853902229; Fri, 17 Jul 2009 11:05:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 14:05:02 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 08016afa8e420b1f Message-ID: Subject: 23.1.50; docstring of `region-active-p' is nonsensical From: MON KEY To: emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) docstring of `region-active-p' is nonsensical. "Most commands that act on the region if it is active and Transient Mark mode is enabled, and on the text near point otherwise, should use `use-region-p' instead. That function checks the value of `use-empty-active-region' as well." In particular, this clause; ", and on the text near point otherwise," I am a native english speaker and have _NO CLUE_ what this is trying to say. While I am somewhat aware of the idiosyncrasies of transient mark, region, etc. and the baggage involved in this particular arena of documentation. There doesn't seem to be any good reason for this docstring to be quit so obtuse. I believe this was touched upon (and/or skirted around) here: (URL `http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2009-05/msg00563.html') Was there any resolution? ;;; ============================== In GNU Emacs 23.1.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2009-06-30 on LENNART-69DE564 (patched) Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (3.4) --cflags -Ic:/g/include' Important settings: value of $LC_ALL: nil value of $LC_COLLATE: nil value of $LC_CTYPE: nil value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil value of $LC_MONETARY: nil value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil value of $LC_TIME: nil value of $LANG: ENU value of $XMODIFIERS: nil locale-coding-system: cp1252 default-enable-multibyte-characters: t Major mode: Emacs-Lisp Minor modes in effect: shell-dirtrack-mode: t diff-auto-refine-mode: t show-point-mode: t show-paren-mode: t display-time-mode: t auto-image-file-mode: t server-mode: t tooltip-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t noticeable-minibuffer-prompts-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t global-auto-composition-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t size-indication-mode: t column-number-mode: t line-number-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t From lennart.borgman@gmail.com Fri Jul 17 11:28:23 2009 Received: (at 3873) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 17 Jul 2009 18:28:23 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=4.0 tests=AWL,HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from mail-fx0-f213.google.com (mail-fx0-f213.google.com [209.85.220.213]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n6HISIOJ012611 for <3873@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Fri, 17 Jul 2009 11:28:20 -0700 Received: by fxm9 with SMTP id 9so951792fxm.1 for <3873@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Fri, 17 Jul 2009 11:28:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=aUfObKLxM7g8OBnRy/WQ6ls1uzFJDoOssg5VeLXWcAM=; b=h9/+eQDGrCcP+k+GhV2Km700PR96TG60LAHhM4bXWuQIdNwf+fljfGdkoMzOSKcD3g 8m8l78Lgiqmr3LK5ERoRTndQ8U2K4FYq1bXZE8vN3kNsmR6XoQHBx69HyGcvDifHe11z UMehPeztV3Wo7udmCGL4Wx8uTpGjk5CiyTRQY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=u5cmdf8VZ+0NYZs59NwI7hHGSLYjSo5os5FQZc8/T7+NxyMTdpe1NMzdx9T7b2IQOF prbiRPJAec/0JQusxbqLAhQQDPHIDEbzayp+GF2gaamTp62/WJFlWVwx0wiDsHoZApMx 7UF1eVl9xsovrhhNh38oNFaTscqEDRo4tdh+0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.109.148 with SMTP id j20mr647825fap.43.1247855293075; Fri, 17 Jul 2009 11:28:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 20:28:13 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#3873: 23.1.50; docstring of `region-active-p' is nonsensical From: Lennart Borgman To: MON KEY , 3873@debbugs.gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 8:05 PM, MON KEY wrote: > "Most commands that act on the region if it is active and > Transient Mark mode is enabled, and on the text near point > otherwise, should use `use-region-p' instead. =C2=A0That function > checks the value of `use-empty-active-region' as well." To me it would be more clear with something like: "Most commands that act on the visibly selected region text, and on the text near point otherwise, should use `use-region-p' instead. That function checks the value of `use-empty-active-region' as well. Note: In Emacs the region is visible if it is active and Transient Mark mode is enabled. To make this work as in most other editing environtments today you can use `cua-mode'." From stan@derbycityprints.com Fri Jul 17 18:04:09 2009 Received: (at 3873) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 18 Jul 2009 01:04:09 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 required=4.0 tests=AWL,GMAIL,HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from mail-yx0-f173.google.com (mail-yx0-f173.google.com [209.85.210.173]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n6I145qJ014698 for <3873@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:04:06 -0700 Received: by yxe3 with SMTP id 3so1940096yxe.19 for <3873@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:04:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: stan@derbycityprints.com Received: by 10.150.182.16 with SMTP id e16mr1711227ybf.221.1247879039973; Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:03:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 21:03:59 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: cc387cdf01dc6f9e Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#3873: 23.1.50; docstring of `region-active-p' is nonsensical From: MON KEY To: Lennart Borgman Cc: 3873@debbugs.gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Lennart Borgman wrote: > To me it would be more clear with something like: > > Mark mode is enabled. To make this work as in most other editing > environtments today you can use `cua-mode'." > Lennart, I appreciate the `cua-mode' plug :) However, this is not the issue nor the solution and can only introduce additional confusion... My proposal: "`region-active-p' Return t if Transient Mark mode is enabled and the mark is active. Commands which act on the region may require to test if it is active; if Transient Mark mode is enabled; or if it is otherwise at the text near point should use `use-region-p' instead. This function is usually the wrong thing to use when testing if the region is active and if it is appropriate to act on it. It can return incorrect results when used with commands which act on the region by disregarding the value of `use-empty-active-region'." s_P From cyd@stupidchicken.com Sat Jul 18 10:41:06 2009 Received: (at 3873-done) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 18 Jul 2009 17:41:07 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=4.0 tests=AWL,HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from pantheon-po30.its.yale.edu (pantheon-po30.its.yale.edu [130.132.50.4]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n6IHexeO020029 for <3873-done@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Sat, 18 Jul 2009 10:41:00 -0700 Received: from furry (dhcp128036014244.central.yale.edu [128.36.14.244]) (authenticated bits=0) by pantheon-po30.its.yale.edu (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n6IHers8026982 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 18 Jul 2009 13:40:53 -0400 Received: by furry (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 93990C09B; Sat, 18 Jul 2009 13:40:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Chong Yidong To: MON KEY Cc: Lennart Borgman , 3873-done@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#3873: 23.1.50; docstring of `region-active-p' is nonsensical Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 13:40:53 -0400 Message-ID: <873a8trisa.fsf@stupidchicken.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-YaleITSMailFilter: Version 1.2c (attachment(s) not renamed) > Commands which act on the region may require to test if it is active; > if Transient Mark mode is enabled; or if it is otherwise at the text > near point should use `use-region-p' instead. I'm afraid this sentence is even more confusing. I checked a different fix into CVS. From unknown Sat Aug 16 10:41:41 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: $requester Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 14:24:20 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # A New Hope # A log time ago, in a galaxy far, far away # something happened. # # Magically this resulted in the following # action being taken, but this fake control # message doesn't tell you why it happened # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator