GNU bug report logs - #3873
23.1.50; docstring of `region-active-p' is nonsensical

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Package: emacs;

Reported by: MON KEY <monkey <at> sandpframing.com>

Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:10:05 UTC

Severity: normal

Done: Chong Yidong <cyd <at> stupidchicken.com>

Bug is archived. No further changes may be made.

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Report forwarded to bug-submit-list <at> lists.donarmstrong.com, Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>:
bug#3873; Package emacs. (Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:10:05 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to MON KEY <monkey <at> sandpframing.com>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>. (Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:10:05 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #5 received at submit <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: MON KEY <monkey <at> sandpframing.com>
To: emacs-pretest-bug <at> gnu.org
Subject: 23.1.50; docstring of `region-active-p' is nonsensical
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 14:05:02 -0400
docstring of `region-active-p' is nonsensical.

"Most commands that act on the region if it is active and
Transient Mark mode is enabled, and on the text near point
otherwise, should use `use-region-p' instead.  That function
checks the value of `use-empty-active-region' as well."

In particular, this clause;
", and on the text near point otherwise,"

I am a native english speaker and have _NO CLUE_ what this is trying to say.

While I am somewhat aware of the idiosyncrasies of transient mark,
region, etc. and the baggage involved in this particular arena of
documentation. There doesn't seem to be any good reason for this
docstring to be quit so obtuse.

I believe this was touched upon (and/or skirted around) here:
(URL `http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2009-05/msg00563.html')

Was there any resolution?

;;; ==============================
In GNU Emacs 23.1.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600)
 of 2009-06-30 on LENNART-69DE564 (patched)
Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600
configured using `configure --with-gcc (3.4) --cflags -Ic:/g/include'

Important settings:
  value of $LC_ALL: nil
  value of $LC_COLLATE: nil
  value of $LC_CTYPE: nil
  value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil
  value of $LC_MONETARY: nil
  value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil
  value of $LC_TIME: nil
  value of $LANG: ENU
  value of $XMODIFIERS: nil
  locale-coding-system: cp1252
  default-enable-multibyte-characters: t

Major mode: Emacs-Lisp

Minor modes in effect:
  shell-dirtrack-mode: t
  diff-auto-refine-mode: t
  show-point-mode: t
  show-paren-mode: t
  display-time-mode: t
  auto-image-file-mode: t
  server-mode: t
  tooltip-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  noticeable-minibuffer-prompts-mode: t
  menu-bar-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  global-auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  size-indication-mode: t
  column-number-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t



Information forwarded to bug-submit-list <at> lists.donarmstrong.com, Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>:
bug#3873; Package emacs. (Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:35:05 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman <at> gmail.com>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>. (Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:35:05 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #10 received at 3873 <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman <at> gmail.com>
To: MON KEY <monkey <at> sandpframing.com>, 3873 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#3873: 23.1.50; docstring of `region-active-p' is nonsensical
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 20:28:13 +0200
On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 8:05 PM, MON KEY<monkey <at> sandpframing.com> wrote:
> "Most commands that act on the region if it is active and
> Transient Mark mode is enabled, and on the text near point
> otherwise, should use `use-region-p' instead.  That function
> checks the value of `use-empty-active-region' as well."

To me it would be more clear with something like:

"Most commands that act on the visibly selected region text, and on
the text near point otherwise, should use `use-region-p' instead.
That function checks the value of `use-empty-active-region' as well.

Note: In Emacs the region is visible if it is active and Transient
Mark mode is enabled. To make this work as in most other editing
environtments today you can use `cua-mode'."



Information forwarded to bug-submit-list <at> lists.donarmstrong.com, Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>:
bug#3873; Package emacs. (Sat, 18 Jul 2009 01:10:06 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to MON KEY <monkey <at> sandpframing.com>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>. (Sat, 18 Jul 2009 01:10:06 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #15 received at 3873 <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: MON KEY <monkey <at> sandpframing.com>
To: Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 3873 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#3873: 23.1.50; docstring of `region-active-p' is nonsensical
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 21:03:59 -0400
On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Lennart
Borgman<lennart.borgman <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> To me it would be more clear with something like:
>
> Mark mode is enabled. To make this work as in most other editing
> environtments today you can use `cua-mode'."
>
Lennart, I appreciate the `cua-mode' plug :)
However, this is not the issue nor the solution and can only introduce
additional confusion...

My proposal:

"`region-active-p'

Return t if Transient Mark mode is enabled and the mark is active.

Commands which act on the region may require to test if it is active;
if Transient Mark mode is enabled; or if it is otherwise at the text
near point should use `use-region-p' instead.

This function is usually the wrong thing to use when testing if
the region is active and if it is appropriate to act on it.
It can return incorrect results when used with commands which act on the
region by disregarding the value of `use-empty-active-region'."

s_P



Reply sent to Chong Yidong <cyd <at> stupidchicken.com>:
You have taken responsibility. (Sat, 18 Jul 2009 17:45:04 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Notification sent to MON KEY <monkey <at> sandpframing.com>:
bug acknowledged by developer. (Sat, 18 Jul 2009 17:45:04 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #20 received at 3873-done <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Chong Yidong <cyd <at> stupidchicken.com>
To: MON KEY <monkey <at> sandpframing.com>
Cc: Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman <at> gmail.com>,
        3873-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#3873: 23.1.50; docstring of `region-active-p' is nonsensical
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 13:40:53 -0400
> Commands which act on the region may require to test if it is active;
> if Transient Mark mode is enabled; or if it is otherwise at the text
> near point should use `use-region-p' instead.

I'm afraid this sentence is even more confusing.

I checked a different fix into CVS.



bug archived. Request was from Debbugs Internal Request <help-debbugs <at> gnu.org> to internal_control <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com. (Sun, 16 Aug 2009 14:24:20 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

This bug report was last modified 16 years and 1 day ago.

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