From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 13 20:21:38 2019 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Dec 2019 01:21:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34772 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ifw7l-0000Ge-Lj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Dec 2019 20:21:37 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:57720) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ifw7j-0000GU-SL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Dec 2019 20:21:36 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37913) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ifw7i-0002mL-Ia for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Dec 2019 20:21:35 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ifw7h-0002FL-3n for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Dec 2019 20:21:34 -0500 Received: from fossa.birch.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.209.62]:20313) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ifw7g-00025y-MM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Dec 2019 20:21:33 -0500 X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9B1B5A1010 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 01:21:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a100.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-169-214.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.169.214]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 3DFC45A0FBD for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 01:21:29 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a100.g.dreamhost.com ([TEMPUNAVAIL]. [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.18.5); Sat, 14 Dec 2019 01:21:29 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Lyrical-Wipe: 73319b70255e7f8c_1576286489531_1946078738 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1576286489531:1660820161 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1576286489530 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a100.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a100.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11D1D7F53E for ; Fri, 13 Dec 2019 17:21:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=jidanni.org; h=from:to :subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; s=jidanni.org; bh=XWlQMsvfLqOHckqHgO UWvaOuhgw=; b=ijV/J3wbIL3xHBs0tfCCK7SYNW23jmYIA165wofaAKFXinRgyW 8zUUCeisDfGQs4CY2W+PCEXVGZ+mOO+Mas0xrHd6KofLlMkRbx9XiBTnxVzq99a6 KC+KZA1qOiT49RhJQ/R+3Zghs2J7FnewkKArYqjqA+mCr1K8/D9wdxGGc= Received: from jidanni.org (114-26-40-245.dynamic-ip.hinet.net [114.26.40.245]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jidanni@jidanni.org) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a100.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 699377F661 for ; Fri, 13 Dec 2019 17:21:25 -0800 (PST) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a100 From: =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: describe-mode never says the most important thing Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2019 07:29:31 +0800 Message-ID: <87d0crpzxg.5.fsf@jidanni.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: 0 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedufedrvddttddgfeefucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuggftfghnshhusghstghrihgsvgdpffftgfetoffjqffuvfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefhvffufffkgggtgfesthekredttddtjeenucfhrhhomhepnjjnnjcuffgrnhculfgrtghosghsohhnuceojhhiuggrnhhnihesjhhiuggrnhhnihdrohhrgheqnecukfhppeduudegrddviedrgedtrddvgeehnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhhouggvpehsmhhtphdphhgvlhhopehjihgurghnnhhirdhorhhgpdhinhgvthepuddugedrvdeirdegtddrvdeghedprhgvthhurhhnqdhprghthheppeeruhhtfhdqkeerueerheeimhfphefnihehhegsveekreepucffrghnucflrggtohgsshhonhcuoehjihgurghnnhhisehjihgurghnnhhirdhorhhgqedpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehjihgurghnnhhisehjihgurghnnhhirdhorhhgpdhnrhgtphhtthhopegsuhhgqdhgnhhuqdgvmhgrtghssehgnhhurdhorhhgnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptd Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 23.83.209.62 X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) C-h m runs the command describe-mode And it has problems. Let's take a look at a typical section of the describe-mode output: ^L Electric-Indent minor mode (no indicator): Toggle on-the-fly reindentation (Electric Indent mode). With a prefix argument ARG, enable Electric Indent mode if ARG is positive, and disable it otherwise. If called from Lisp, enable the mode if ARG is omitted or nil. When enabled, this reindents whenever the hook =E2=80=98electric-indent= -functions=E2=80=99 returns non-nil, or if you insert a character from =E2=80=98electric-in= dent-chars=E2=80=99. This is a global minor mode. To toggle the mode in a single buffer, use =E2=80=98electric-indent-local-mode=E2=80=99. ^L The problem is, it doesn't mention how to turn it on and off! The user has to click on each line right after an ^L, to learn that he simply needs to do e.g., (electric-indent-mode &optional ARG) That's right, each section between the ^L's could go on for miles and miles, never revealing the most important thing: how to turn it on and off. Well OK, at the top say "to avoid cluttering the page, please click each item to learn how to turn it on and off". (Or "how to invoke.") P.S., some of the entries are followed by a mysterious (fn &optional ARG) and some of them aren't. ^L Auto-Compression minor mode (no indicator): Toggle Auto Compression mode. With a prefix argument ARG, enable Auto Compression mode if ARG is positive, and disable it otherwise. If called from Lisp, enable the mode if ARG is omitted or nil. Auto Compression mode is a global minor mode. When enabled, compressed files are automatically uncompressed for reading, and compressed when writing. ^L Auto-Encryption minor mode (no indicator): Toggle automatic file encryption/decryption (Auto Encryption mode). With a prefix argument ARG, enable Auto Encryption mode if ARG is positive, and disable it otherwise. If called from Lisp, enable the mode if ARG is omitted or nil. (fn &optional ARG) ^L Perhaps fn stands for the function name, but the page never says what the exact function name is. So we end up having to look it up anyway. Also there is no rhyme or reason why we only see it on some entries. emacs-version "26.3" From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Dec 14 02:42:29 2019 Received: (at 38601) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Dec 2019 07:42:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34919 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ig24K-0004qQ-TI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 02:42:29 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:32855) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ig24I-0004pz-W2 for 38601@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 02:42:27 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:57503) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ig24D-00079O-AX; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 02:42:21 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2891 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ig24C-0004Zh-Jf; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 02:42:20 -0500 Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2019 09:42:12 +0200 Message-Id: <83k16z73qj.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson In-reply-to: <87d0crpzxg.5.fsf@jidanni.org> Subject: Re: bug#38601: describe-mode never says the most important thing References: <87d0crpzxg.5.fsf@jidanni.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 38601 Cc: 38601@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson > > Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2019 07:29:31 +0800 > > ^L > Electric-Indent minor mode (no indicator): > Toggle on-the-fly reindentation (Electric Indent mode). > With a prefix argument ARG, enable Electric Indent mode if ARG is > positive, and disable it otherwise. If called from Lisp, enable > the mode if ARG is omitted or nil. > > When enabled, this reindents whenever the hook ‘electric-indent-functions’ > returns non-nil, or if you insert a character from ‘electric-indent-chars’. > > This is a global minor mode. To toggle the mode in a single buffer, > use ‘electric-indent-local-mode’. > ^L > > The problem is, it doesn't mention how to turn it on and off! Actually, it does: that's the last sentence above. > The user has to click on each line right after an ^L, to learn that he > simply needs to do e.g., > > (electric-indent-mode &optional ARG) That's not a user command, that's a Lisp way of doing this stuff, and therefore doesn't have to be anywhere near the beginning of the help text. So I think we should close this as a non-b ug. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Dec 14 21:09:14 2019 Received: (at 38601) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Dec 2019 02:09:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35923 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1igJLO-0003ul-Lf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 21:09:14 -0500 Received: from smtp-2.orcon.net.nz ([60.234.4.43]:39485) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1igJLM-0003ua-Ex for 38601@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 21:09:13 -0500 Received: from [116.251.203.246] (port=33758 helo=[192.168.20.103]) by smtp-2.orcon.net.nz with esmtpa (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1igJLJ-0000RB-55; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 15:09:09 +1300 Subject: Re: bug#38601: describe-mode never says the most important thing To: =?UTF-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8IERhbiBKYWNvYnNvbg==?= , 38601@debbugs.gnu.org References: <87d0crpzxg.5.fsf@jidanni.org> From: Phil Sainty Message-ID: <23f279f3-f2a6-6327-b1eb-0d167cdfad22@orcon.net.nz> Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2019 15:09:09 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87d0crpzxg.5.fsf@jidanni.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-GeoIP: NZ X-Spam_score: -2.9 X-Spam_score_int: -28 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 38601 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On 14/12/19 12:29 PM, 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson wrote: > P.S., some of the entries are followed by a mysterious > (fn &optional ARG) > and some of them aren't. It appears that this bug has been fixed for Emacs 27. > each section between the ^L's could go on for miles and miles, never > revealing the most important thing: how to turn it on and off. Surely the most important thing is telling you what each mode does. Knowing how to turn them off is important, but once you know how to turn one minor mode on or off, then you know how to turn *any* minor mode on or off -- it's the same in all cases. (I do think there's an argument for showing the mode symbol rather than a capitalised variant of the name in the `describe-mode' help; but that's a different conversation.) > Well OK, at the top say "to avoid cluttering the page, please click > each item to learn how to turn it on and off". (Or "how to invoke.") But even if you follow the link, it still won't tell you how to *interactively* enable or disable the mode (e.g. with M-x MODENAME); so if a person is so new to Emacs that they don't already know how to do all these things, I'm not sure that your suggestion is sufficient to resolve that situation. And once they do have that very basic understanding of modes, the information is pretty redundant. I don't think I'd be bothered by the information being added, but I'm not sure that its absence is really a significant problem? I suspect you'll need more people to add their agreement to the bug report to convince people otherwise. -Phil From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Dec 15 15:29:44 2019 Received: (at 38601) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Dec 2019 20:29:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37233 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1igaWO-000433-LA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 15:29:44 -0500 Received: from blue.elm.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.212.20]:4956) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1igaWM-00042t-1s for 38601@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 15:29:43 -0500 X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5252580B27; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 20:29:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a39.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-89-10.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.89.10]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 2A275580928; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 20:29:40 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a39.g.dreamhost.com ([TEMPUNAVAIL]. [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.18.5); Sun, 15 Dec 2019 20:29:40 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Minister-Tasty: 6f3446b334eb2623_1576441780564_2744828691 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1576441780564:600279303 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1576441780564 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a39.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a39.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BDA9802C7; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 12:29:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=jidanni.org; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type; s=jidanni.org; bh=og6gHa9ftly91rlNPjW8KII/Fks=; b=cRAwxyW7gdQ6p 9fU94kFnJbsqsUpJA7Gtfxg9E8HnPWFBk5CYPzV6/2LT+0spI+mYxvjXpCf5Z2xL 0h+7Qht1L7ckvOZQ6ARz8VEdak8HoiccGwu2eyVJ0v8cDTs+xq9EhaaUanvp+Wok IlIdGadm9s3OEtaCPO9aOl20fTZ9nw= Received: from jidanni.org (114-41-32-45.dynamic-ip.hinet.net [114.41.32.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jidanni@jidanni.org) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a39.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7AC008020F; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 12:29:34 -0800 (PST) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a39 From: =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson To: Phil Sainty Subject: Re: bug#38601: describe-mode never says the most important thing References: <87d0crpzxg.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <23f279f3-f2a6-6327-b1eb-0d167cdfad22@orcon.net.nz> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 04:28:39 +0800 Message-ID: <87r215xrig.5.fsf@jidanni.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: -100 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedufedrvddtfedgudegtdcutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggvpdfftffgtefojffquffvnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenucfjughrpefhvffufhffkfggtgesthdtredttddtjeenucfhrhhomhepnjjnnjcuffgrnhculfgrtghosghsohhnuceojhhiuggrnhhnihesjhhiuggrnhhnihdrohhrgheqnecukfhppeduudegrdeguddrfedvrdegheenucfrrghrrghmpehmohguvgepshhmthhppdhhvghlohepjhhiuggrnhhnihdrohhrghdpihhnvghtpeduudegrdeguddrfedvrdeghedprhgvthhurhhnqdhprghthheppeeruhhtfhdqkeerueerheeimhfphefnihehhegsveekreepucffrghnucflrggtohgsshhonhcuoehjihgurghnnhhisehjihgurghnnhhirdhorhhgqedpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehjihgurghnnhhisehjihgurghnnhhirdhorhhgpdhnrhgtphhtthhopeefkeeitdduseguvggssghughhsrdhgnhhurdhorhhgnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptd X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 38601 Cc: 38601@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> "PS" == Phil Sainty writes: PS> Knowing how to turn them off is important, but once you know how to PS> turn one minor mode on or off, then you know how to turn *any* minor PS> mode on or off -- it's the same in all cases. Well OK but the cautious user knows to first check the docs before executing things. (E.g., Unix sort vs. uniq arguments.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Dec 15 15:58:50 2019 Received: (at 38601) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Dec 2019 20:58:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37267 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1igayY-0006lm-0V for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 15:58:50 -0500 Received: from cadetblue.birch.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.209.28]:4482) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1igayW-0006lZ-2w for 38601@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 15:58:49 -0500 X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB40F5803E7; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 20:58:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a39.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-45-231.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.45.231]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 39C5D580A43; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 20:58:46 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a39.g.dreamhost.com ([TEMPUNAVAIL]. [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.18.5); Sun, 15 Dec 2019 20:58:46 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Spot-Wipe: 6fe9be6232a945f0_1576443526631_2119828801 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1576443526630:187517754 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1576443526630 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a39.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a39.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08F0A802CD; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 12:58:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=jidanni.org; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; s=jidanni.org; bh=XLu2xDMDnFU/nTg5jg ulLMMHDFY=; b=mIH12UdMGFYjlWOo9IQwTzkIywec++DMeinp6XnrAXeSCbgxGY eNnw11dJAbls/etd5aCiMmdS4DdFdlGRbTojjmN+X07XBCzIpIMKWVG+hyM4gqKo mriIEWoYsze94XVhV92ed7r53seqGAyudZAjJ2WdtHF8kPeK9X7ggpvJw= Received: from jidanni.org (114-41-32-45.dynamic-ip.hinet.net [114.41.32.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jidanni@jidanni.org) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a39.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 66778802CC; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 12:58:41 -0800 (PST) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a39 From: =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#38601: describe-mode never says the most important thing References: <87d0crpzxg.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <83k16z73qj.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 04:58:37 +0800 Message-ID: <87mubtxq4i.5.fsf@jidanni.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: -100 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedufedrvddtfedgudegiecutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggvpdfftffgtefojffquffvnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenucfjughrpefhvffufhffkfggtgfgsehtkeertddttdejnecuhfhrohhmpejnnjjnucffrghnucflrggtohgsshhonhcuoehjihgurghnnhhisehjihgurghnnhhirdhorhhgqeenucfkphepuddugedrgedurdefvddrgeehnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhhouggvpehsmhhtphdphhgvlhhopehjihgurghnnhhirdhorhhgpdhinhgvthepuddugedrgedurdefvddrgeehpdhrvghtuhhrnhdqphgrthhhpeeprehuthhfqdekreeureehiehmpfehnfhiheehsgevkeerpecuffgrnhculfgrtghosghsohhnuceojhhiuggrnhhnihesjhhiuggrnhhnihdrohhrgheqpdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepjhhiuggrnhhnihesjhhiuggrnhhnihdrohhrghdpnhhrtghpthhtohepfeekiedtudesuggvsggsuhhgshdrghhnuhdrohhrghenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedt Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 38601 Cc: 38601@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> "EZ" =3D=3D Eli Zaretskii writes: >> The problem is, it doesn't mention how to turn it on and off! EZ> Actually, it does: that's the last sentence above. OK, but e.g., the next one doesn't: ^L File-Name-Shadow minor mode (no indicator): Toggle file-name shadowing in minibuffers (File-Name Shadow mode). With a prefix argument ARG, enable File-Name Shadow mode if ARG is positive, and disable it otherwise. If called from Lisp, enable the mode if ARG is omitted or nil. File-Name Shadow mode is a global minor mode. When enabled, any part of a filename being read in the minibuffer that would be ignored (because the result is passed through =E2=80=98substitute-in-file-name=E2=80=99) is given the properties in =E2=80=98file-name-shadow-properties=E2=80=99, which can be used to make = that portion dim, invisible, or otherwise less visually noticeable. ^L It talks about a prefix argument but doesn't show one how to invoke it. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Dec 15 17:00:22 2019 Received: (at 38601) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Dec 2019 22:00:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37349 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1igbw6-0001rT-Ce for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 17:00:22 -0500 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:52883) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1igbw4-0001qw-4q for 38601@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 17:00:21 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8E81D240100 for <38601@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 23:00:13 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1576447213; bh=JGRHW0vBI0BxeSo/+/aWMYx12ObLoqinHBbJRiJamPg=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:From; b=hCKETr3awk+YmcGo4YTf9e6qzu5hZ4rgO5bXGNG9LNr+wOAgEIPjK6UM+ea8c5b04 0MO35sEYTJVuc98AxOvir9tbNogZEbddO0/As1TPExJ8+meoemMgEqAuOqhWKww6Wn GF2suiihwso3KvBIFRrh6aE7Oy0gFgdUM3fGoUFzJJMcCOeGPmSdVNEIwihyobxTbo pqgWYxWXrqn73pf0wSFZvtm90gvoJj85prZMFxrbFc1FofZFrXEbg5RrYQUiBw+lBa e+hEAT4YMsRRDAH+pniWoPeMDZJh6hoiZWrhXxRcmgYHDOJNw+FNJ3dUQyIssJUfl2 XDxHroWfk44CQ== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 47bdcX3GRgz9rxM; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 23:00:12 +0100 (CET) From: Tomas Nordin To: Phil Sainty , =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson , 38601@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#38601: describe-mode never says the most important thing In-Reply-To: <23f279f3-f2a6-6327-b1eb-0d167cdfad22@orcon.net.nz> References: <87d0crpzxg.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <23f279f3-f2a6-6327-b1eb-0d167cdfad22@orcon.net.nz> Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2019 23:00:11 +0100 Message-ID: <877e2xtfkk.fsf@fliptop.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 38601 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Phil Sainty writes: > (I do think there's an argument for showing the mode symbol rather > than a capitalised variant of the name in the `describe-mode' help; > but that's a different conversation.) A different conversation but I didn't see that so I take the opportunity to agree here. The capitalized variants of the command name was always confusing to me -- is it the command name, only with a big letter in the beginning, or is it some sort of doxy description that is not the same as the command name. Easy to check, but anyway. The help for a specific function has a different approach, not capitalized. Best regards -- Tomas From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Dec 15 17:32:30 2019 Received: (at 38601) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Dec 2019 22:32:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37378 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1igcRB-0002mY-Ny for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 17:32:29 -0500 Received: from smtp-2.orcon.net.nz ([60.234.4.43]:56647) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1igcR9-0002mQ-Rv for 38601@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 17:32:28 -0500 Received: from [116.251.203.246] (port=37456 helo=[192.168.20.103]) by smtp-2.orcon.net.nz with esmtpa (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1igcR6-0006DG-Nd; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 11:32:24 +1300 Subject: Re: bug#38601: describe-mode never says the most important thing To: Tomas Nordin References: <87d0crpzxg.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <23f279f3-f2a6-6327-b1eb-0d167cdfad22@orcon.net.nz> <877e2xtfkk.fsf@fliptop.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> From: Phil Sainty Message-ID: Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 11:32:24 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <877e2xtfkk.fsf@fliptop.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-GeoIP: NZ X-Spam_score: -2.9 X-Spam_score_int: -28 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 38601 Cc: 38601@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On 16/12/19 11:00 AM, Tomas Nordin wrote: > Phil Sainty writes: >> (I do think there's an argument for showing the mode symbol rather >> than a capitalised variant of the name in the `describe-mode' help; >> but that's a different conversation.) > > A different conversation but I didn't see that so I take the > opportunity to agree here. The capitalized variants of the command > name was always confusing to me -- is it the command name, only > with a big letter in the beginning, or is it some sort of doxy > description that is not the same as the command name. Easy to check, > but anyway. For the major mode it's just the `mode-name' value. For the minor modes it's the symbol name, sans "-minor-mode"/"-mode", passed through `capitalize': "foo-bar-mode" becomes "Foo-Bar". This is hard-coded in `describe-mode', which produces the following: (pp-eval-expression '(let (minor-modes) ;; Older packages do not register in minor-mode-list but only in ;; minor-mode-alist. (dolist (x minor-mode-alist) (setq x (car x)) (unless (memq x minor-mode-list) (push x minor-mode-list))) ;; Find enabled minor mode we will want to mention. (dolist (mode minor-mode-list) ;; Document a minor mode if it is listed in minor-mode-alist, ;; non-nil, and has a function definition. (let ((fmode (or (get mode :minor-mode-function) mode))) (and (boundp mode) (symbol-value mode) (fboundp fmode) (let ((pretty-minor-mode (if (string-match "\\(\\(-minor\\)?-mode\\)?\\'" (symbol-name fmode)) (capitalize (substring (symbol-name fmode) 0 (match-beginning 0))) fmode))) (push (list fmode pretty-minor-mode (format-mode-line (assq mode minor-mode-alist))) minor-modes))))) minor-modes)) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 16 17:52:38 2019 Received: (at 38601) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Dec 2019 22:52:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40466 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1igzED-0006yC-Sq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 17:52:38 -0500 Received: from bonobo.elm.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.212.22]:35931) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1igzEC-0006y4-8Q for 38601@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 17:52:36 -0500 X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jurta@jurta.org Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2430141EFB; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 22:52:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a19.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-89-10.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.89.10]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 096F0141F00; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 22:52:34 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jurta@jurta.org Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a19.g.dreamhost.com ([TEMPUNAVAIL]. [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.18.5); Mon, 16 Dec 2019 22:52:34 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|jurta@jurta.org X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Name-Interest: 037c26d1591e05f9_1576536754270_1541069724 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1576536754270:1708730243 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1576536754269 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a19.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a19.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 844D27F035; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 14:52:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=linkov.net; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :content-type; s=linkov.net; bh=cfGv/++kagHfOe4rGiquNhyIu58=; b= 0rqf1k3/H0cuAKTeRMwGgCRxpjB7sPGuaS+aJBPg2htZkWz4g0WZdyx7zmiaip13 FlhJSXpvhePlWwDic1TPyaA362ve2Ftt3+7XDhwfZxmpYq25WGG41uJXCIGuvMc0 T6+6/wPwhLYNtxvf8rl0NZh7ahxW3e2/qAdhBQe3Hec= Received: from mail.jurta.org (m91-129-107-186.cust.tele2.ee [91.129.107.186]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jurta@jurta.org) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a19.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2EFE17EFC4; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 14:52:23 -0800 (PST) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a19 From: Juri Linkov To: Phil Sainty Subject: Re: bug#38601: describe-mode never says the most important thing Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <87d0crpzxg.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <23f279f3-f2a6-6327-b1eb-0d167cdfad22@orcon.net.nz> <877e2xtfkk.fsf@fliptop.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 23:36:24 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Phil Sainty's message of "Mon, 16 Dec 2019 11:32:24 +1300") Message-ID: <874ky0p24n.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: -100 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedufedrvddtiedgtdegucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuggftfghnshhusghstghrihgsvgdpffftgfetoffjqffuvfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmnecujfgurhephffvufhofhffjgfkfgggtgesthdtredttdertdenucfhrhhomheplfhurhhiucfnihhnkhhovhcuoehjuhhriheslhhinhhkohhvrdhnvghtqeenucfkphepledurdduvdelrddutdejrddukeeinecurfgrrhgrmhepmhhouggvpehsmhhtphdphhgvlhhopehmrghilhdrjhhurhhtrgdrohhrghdpihhnvghtpeeluddruddvledruddtjedrudekiedprhgvthhurhhnqdhprghthheplfhurhhiucfnihhnkhhovhcuoehjuhhriheslhhinhhkohhvrdhnvghtqedpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehjuhhriheslhhinhhkohhvrdhnvghtpdhnrhgtphhtthhopehpshgrihhnthihsehorhgtohhnrdhnvghtrdhniienucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedu X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 38601 Cc: Tomas Nordin , 38601@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>> (I do think there's an argument for showing the mode symbol rather >>> than a capitalised variant of the name in the `describe-mode' help; >>> but that's a different conversation.) >> >> A different conversation but I didn't see that so I take the >> opportunity to agree here. The capitalized variants of the command >> name was always confusing to me -- is it the command name, only >> with a big letter in the beginning, or is it some sort of doxy >> description that is not the same as the command name. Easy to check, >> but anyway. > > For the major mode it's just the `mode-name' value. > > For the minor modes it's the symbol name, sans "-minor-mode"/"-mode", > passed through `capitalize': "foo-bar-mode" becomes "Foo-Bar". At least, minor modes have links to their Help buffers where the symbol name is displayed and available for e.g. copying etc, but the major mode has no such link in the `describe-mode' help, that's the problem that should be fixed. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 18 12:43:12 2021 Received: (at 38601) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Apr 2021 16:43:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47598 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lYAVs-0007eu-Dm for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 12:43:12 -0400 Received: from mail-pj1-f53.google.com ([209.85.216.53]:34378) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lYAVo-0007eL-PL for 38601@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 12:43:09 -0400 Received: by mail-pj1-f53.google.com with SMTP id em21-20020a17090b0155b029014e204a81e6so8089741pjb.1 for <38601@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 09:43:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to:cc :content-transfer-encoding; bh=WFiPWQsoqPBbSx86GYDE7g58uFsqh1qdDykVkHUWu1A=; b=csttp/5a1TkQlZkeullm3LWHPF3YDoZgnGdC+LrdPX2WpUvc6fWGhRsv7xh9PbOXT/ WX4bEiaR0CCIgsXFLtnQebIRI3ogZPBgyHEXYUbcMQDV0GN9b2E0Rhv/3d0eyH7ITCkx lD3yAp++Wd1Bd/WW4bc8d25gDisS7ww7eJKVqa2IIUIVURZRZFNXYG/hpykaCtCFrF6x tLST7YZ18EzBauFR/WEHiTchDtbYN3vNzepaHVJaiSEvF02/STYHW+zhYt49v6DghSmk QimNh6A/ZeqdrS/L675XWyH9vAbCLOKffrSl26mJh6HYn3gW1R3q3upM4ue12u37F27s NMOQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532aBAkpFnj9z4FY53r9vTaZWccUPrxszQ5wUyBAfQGgwyfBZd0v uvGQGAhhyTjEuOoncMNi8iZhMtDDDYGFfLxri4E= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxeywxyoIwomaAJHQat7WDHLO3BM3xfocOyJmOkBCZ8uAi0o7/TtuAOjENY2z6lI0dEMxP5SSxOuNZIZSyxc94= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:e788:b029:eb:2c5b:bce8 with SMTP id cp8-20020a170902e788b02900eb2c5bbce8mr19512515plb.41.1618764183091; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 09:43:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 11:43:02 -0500 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <83k16z73qj.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 14 Dec 2019 09:42:12 +0200") References: <87d0crpzxg.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <83k16z73qj.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2021 11:43:02 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#38601: describe-mode never says the most important thing To: Eli Zaretskii Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 38601 Cc: 38601@debbugs.gnu.org, =?UTF-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8IERhbiBKYWNvYnNvbg==?= X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) tags 38601 notabug close 38601 thanks Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: =E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC Dan Jacobson >> >> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2019 07:29:31 +0800 >> >> ^L >> Electric-Indent minor mode (no indicator): >> Toggle on-the-fly reindentation (Electric Indent mode). >> With a prefix argument ARG, enable Electric Indent mode if ARG is >> positive, and disable it otherwise. If called from Lisp, enable >> the mode if ARG is omitted or nil. >> >> When enabled, this reindents whenever the hook =E2=80=98electric-inden= t-functions=E2=80=99 >> returns non-nil, or if you insert a character from =E2=80=98electric-i= ndent-chars=E2=80=99. >> >> This is a global minor mode. To toggle the mode in a single buffer, >> use =E2=80=98electric-indent-local-mode=E2=80=99. >> ^L >> >> The problem is, it doesn't mention how to turn it on and off! > > Actually, it does: that's the last sentence above. > >> The user has to click on each line right after an ^L, to learn that he >> simply needs to do e.g., >> >> (electric-indent-mode &optional ARG) > > That's not a user command, that's a Lisp way of doing this stuff, and > therefore doesn't have to be anywhere near the beginning of the help > text. > > So I think we should close this as a non-b ug. OK, closing. From unknown Sat Aug 16 18:46:38 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Mon, 17 May 2021 11:24:04 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator