From unknown Mon Aug 18 04:45:23 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#38392: zap-up-to-char should appear in "Deletion and Killing" Emacs info section and "Command Index" Resent-From: Justin Paston-Cooper Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 19:37:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 38392 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 38392@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.15747970001756 (code B ref -1); Tue, 26 Nov 2019 19:37:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Nov 2019 19:36:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52977 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iZgdc-0000SF-GJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 14:36:40 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:38785) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iZffp-0007Kr-Pn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 13:34:54 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56008) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iZffo-0004H0-D6 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 13:34:53 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,FREEMAIL_FROM, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iZffn-000470-6v for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 13:34:52 -0500 Received: from mail-io1-xd36.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::d36]:38877) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iZffn-00046P-2f for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 13:34:51 -0500 Received: by mail-io1-xd36.google.com with SMTP id u24so19992585iob.5 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 10:34:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=weFY8474CoDFDdgkYZ+f/3L+d9+7wk7b2bA5rSt964E=; b=A8+G+A4NERV5dp2YolT619njm1ST061xUGRof6AJ8IF1bv5mJj7/DLAJLkHnGElhnM eC9vbcxoz4zlXKzAujsf2NM95UIv+kCEyXP98yFoYf49ssB3U68RZsQA9NnWqloqGPrM 5id2x6RCEAJSSgZWU0LAqrFlGNKJwmYImAjv4SX/l2Ner+GcpH2mSXD2FK69RL5Q0suR sPkIt5cP5vsIHvX3xQBlbl1WqCAOOXLK/1uDhhv+hU8Hvpu7pF6NugckRMlUr1ew/yxE fk2NulS8zbGkBOGGueHyyDixOyR8cee3ujrV1g5XcuMw/RD+MryUarL9YcIQsn0Shefl 62Tg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=weFY8474CoDFDdgkYZ+f/3L+d9+7wk7b2bA5rSt964E=; b=Rjez54oa9jcPZTaTKdhCiKPhyqPzkC0LFah8qpVpCDZ85snq3+Z8QrS06DnXnMq7OM Y4uaUhNBATYJ/lsE1TlgOv8azb/whoiiWc4fOhdQqlfDlvgP5maGpdfKsA1MKF5uG3vW GLOa3pA9m8vD5THdSLURZQT4c6M6AeiITVoFPHnzqMDG9vLr+sCVvDpIYdUSSDzOAeQq fsMmE5XLQr1NxloMFnEqrqTrXK416wuAKhqt8pqwKfM/KJ/+WBImJC5D4IAgkUpCZib2 Uavn+tr+ulCkGkdTyvnNLY+6r0JallCHfcUIjWw3bmZSUZ91lWO0bax0Vkc2Wm/RfyxE emwA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXmrI99ztmPJqaLf3DaxUIKmHGFFhx+ahNIWaqS92X3W2jeT7py BarvRjcbzsnLNONv2jVCjnrmI1UgM5PY+v+X7gYKGN3k X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqx1Yb5TJbxQQOdAMORJl5n/r+hjjvZaP+BVQ0Q8Mr+ozMm3GknpseV4pIPF2ldLCsswoiRy2EB++byvJYXO1hI= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:7511:: with SMTP id l17mr3360085ioh.115.1574793289224; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 10:34:49 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Justin Paston-Cooper Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 19:34:37 +0100 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d36 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 14:36:39 -0500 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) Hello, According to the documentation, zap-up-to-char allows one to kill up to, but not including ARGth occurrence of CHAR. No reference is made to zap-up-to-char in https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Killing.html or https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Command-Index.html. It isn't immediately apparent from the documentation on zap-to-char in the above sections, and also from the source of zap-to-char, that there exists a way of zapping up to a char without writing this code manually. I couldn't find any combination of keys, either, to press after pressing M-z which would result in the same functionality. It took me quite a while to come across zap-up-to-char. Could documentation for this function be added to the Emacs manual? Kind regards, Justin From unknown Mon Aug 18 04:45:23 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#38392: zap-up-to-char should appear in "Deletion and Killing" Emacs info section and "Command Index" Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 19:46:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 38392 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Justin Paston-Cooper Cc: 38392@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 38392-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B38392.15747975452662 (code B ref 38392); Tue, 26 Nov 2019 19:46:02 +0000 Received: (at 38392) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Nov 2019 19:45:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52989 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iZgmO-0000gs-PB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 14:45:45 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:56824) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iZgmN-0000ge-0s for 38392@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 14:45:43 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:35321) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iZgmH-0005fs-Rf; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 14:45:37 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4189 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1iZgmG-0005i1-Sd; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 14:45:37 -0500 Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 21:45:42 +0200 Message-Id: <83wobmqv4p.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: (message from Justin Paston-Cooper on Tue, 26 Nov 2019 19:34:37 +0100) References: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Justin Paston-Cooper > Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 19:34:37 +0100 > > According to the documentation, zap-up-to-char allows one to kill up > to, but not including ARGth occurrence of CHAR. No reference is made > to zap-up-to-char in > https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Killing.html > or https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Command-Index.html. I see it in Command-Index.html and in Other-Kill-Commands.html, which is a subsection of "Deletion and Killing". Not sure why you didn't see it there. > Could documentation for this function be added to the Emacs manual? It's already there, AFAICT. Thanks. From unknown Mon Aug 18 04:45:23 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#38392: zap-up-to-char should appear in "Deletion and Killing" Emacs info section and "Command Index" Resent-From: Justin Paston-Cooper Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 19:49:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 38392 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 38392@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 38392-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B38392.15747976932951 (code B ref 38392); Tue, 26 Nov 2019 19:49:02 +0000 Received: (at 38392) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Nov 2019 19:48:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52997 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iZgon-0000lX-Cp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 14:48:13 -0500 Received: from mail-il1-f181.google.com ([209.85.166.181]:40134) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iZgom-0000lL-35 for 38392@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 14:48:12 -0500 Received: by mail-il1-f181.google.com with SMTP id v17so14917067ilg.7 for <38392@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 11:48:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=VvZH3NCItniXjyHvDpwocIN+ZnxuJHEY3XwSqaCEZMo=; b=IPsESIIibWrFre4y9fP8n0SgH+e+rXznY6ZSHSb2O4TnvBcEVTtXL/WrCGiUurJHWO RggeQq3xOdsc66RQhK5kbG5z97w9VS79r8c12ZVD9hX/3djNNYmoGIiqvCQVWby+dlkI iymi7gzTGybH+a3n6zedralPJqMnog6vSDs2RfkS2EHvs1ksVcyzk5yA2ZNYhbqLh54Q A2IXQwIYgUpy7uW3Qh36PjU7lds08UL4dys/UXIZPUi051dEgyVfGJCxniDv5lRQZV0l f4prpoeRsPcX4BTDq/WlkZENf+uwuPweQZYoCnagqbVOzrn5NA4NuZ0XM7btwzomlE60 SVCg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=VvZH3NCItniXjyHvDpwocIN+ZnxuJHEY3XwSqaCEZMo=; b=bfTQmCrbgWpUuuSYBb+gRj0Kiuw3CcLrbCYtTqyyvtu4MaQUsSYOGcebsBH9UIYvz5 BNCZcnqylnklk6hQvKf9u++k7DhM/3jfRW596139erx35/2C0I0aKTOihp0xdWW9AyJX 57nGO5LupwxLBO4/JPaRemIOWtiB+0foCmaCyIBKTTUpdG67/Re7AeaLfIljmQ/kHVZW JxhInbDhi/QDaSoB8536QYEnJFN7yah4yR6XNbkGVz6dQnGxp8MBeV2ETOm9Tm7cOJni 22mg/fCv7ESm6SyWHg3+4+YeJmE7f8f6qHHl4NnZUElS7mvruzSCKlr4jjuPKNcFB0Bp VtZw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAX4u4Upoq5mdVn30kdqe6RiyxBXyx+2hBRgy32INPUcTRooEVY0 hGNwaEqC9Wy8mqYOfjFYSKqB4MVQB3Eyc1KiMwteDg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxkiXFtlK4IG49VOTsns2MU7SluwAtyqIdp9gIDBPKVCg6wNGbVn+qQs1e0Gh3UPUBSmjeOUB7mlWq2ERKsPc0= X-Received: by 2002:a92:96c2:: with SMTP id g185mr3365319ilh.40.1574797686260; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 11:48:06 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <83wobmqv4p.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83wobmqv4p.fsf@gnu.org> From: Justin Paston-Cooper Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 20:47:54 +0100 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) I can see zap-to-char mentioned and linked in the above sections, but not zap-***up***-to-char. On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 at 20:45, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > From: Justin Paston-Cooper > > Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 19:34:37 +0100 > > > > According to the documentation, zap-up-to-char allows one to kill up > > to, but not including ARGth occurrence of CHAR. No reference is made > > to zap-up-to-char in > > https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Killing.html > > or https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Command-Index.html. > > I see it in Command-Index.html and in Other-Kill-Commands.html, which > is a subsection of "Deletion and Killing". Not sure why you didn't > see it there. > > > Could documentation for this function be added to the Emacs manual? > > It's already there, AFAICT. > > Thanks. From unknown Mon Aug 18 04:45:23 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#38392: zap-up-to-char should appear in "Deletion and Killing" Emacs info section and "Command Index" Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 20:06:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 38392 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Justin Paston-Cooper Cc: 38392@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 38392-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B38392.15747987094612 (code B ref 38392); Tue, 26 Nov 2019 20:06:02 +0000 Received: (at 38392) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Nov 2019 20:05:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53010 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iZh5B-0001CK-4S for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 15:05:09 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:59312) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iZh58-0001Bu-RU for 38392@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 15:05:07 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:35651) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iZh53-0002Kw-OT; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 15:05:01 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1396 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1iZh52-0007be-TR; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 15:05:01 -0500 Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 22:05:07 +0200 Message-Id: <83v9r6qu8c.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: (message from Justin Paston-Cooper on Tue, 26 Nov 2019 20:47:54 +0100) References: <83wobmqv4p.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Justin Paston-Cooper > Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 20:47:54 +0100 > Cc: 38392@debbugs.gnu.org > > I can see zap-to-char mentioned and linked in the above sections, but > not zap-***up***-to-char. Sorry, you are right. This command isn't even in NEWS, so it's completely undocumented. From unknown Mon Aug 18 04:45:23 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#38392: zap-up-to-char should appear in "Deletion and Killing" Emacs info section and "Command Index" Resent-From: Justin Paston-Cooper Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 10:12:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 38392 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 38392@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 38392-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B38392.157484950415893 (code B ref 38392); Wed, 27 Nov 2019 10:12:01 +0000 Received: (at 38392) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Nov 2019 10:11:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53464 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iZuIR-00048H-PS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 05:11:43 -0500 Received: from mail-il1-f177.google.com ([209.85.166.177]:39353) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iZuIQ-000484-2l for 38392@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 05:11:42 -0500 Received: by mail-il1-f177.google.com with SMTP id a7so20506155ild.6 for <38392@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 02:11:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ScEC35pgrHX/s6fZ3bb20Jax2rXOM5CSJFutQWvA4Do=; b=IAXS+pboSpIB6Kk38+zO2UTWtGMJtiqCcjE420zHhTCy1dHhlGA2sFXxnwyE5wGWkG HphnfkMy27H2YFOXodRiyzhLs+braVFni3EX9BkePSv7HSDaq+XZC9Hic3YPhzLGHnbq O0U3IHKHcglzRpn47BweEUX0gABRmQs6DfQFDGroV2OQnC+23H4FK4FaJ2+GMNjZVboU XI1q30mgT1Tlx7zrr04Ok0t9YF/y3SfunbdMI68wk1pD7KZd1g4ZyOxnfq15ocsKhKHD i3bXRGMXowmS+sWH7Vycj6SfLX26RNy5DkK3HjEFDZXhcP+jTrYPozhbhtWhNXrwyX7W lhEQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ScEC35pgrHX/s6fZ3bb20Jax2rXOM5CSJFutQWvA4Do=; b=JkU9J4oPBpOAKeLMeVt2D15qsk0AJTBhoLVIfFFN6n4k8yn5qLwmI3F031+ZCoIYEx 1i2giG/c9/1fRezoMYCyOMGmDBtWezqRKL/OFKNEB6der4NCB/HJMI6fjbj02hkjHY5h tpREj07XrGupGks1y1m04SmaMI/9Kn7vNacQWpI7LoQo+TQiADfidRqBgxXzlJTA4Adm xU85HWU8TUYESx/nF7sw/T9pRzXiVwTzEVtjGLAtpiRmGdc6DarRAFzT1dcfXZ8S7xJn mKLRXAjOz1pgiAhDst8kSQgHteMx9yMHTxNR7K4ma5BtnHTVFS6YIaHtGb0S3YYV2vCf mjBg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV48gTfoU1B3XTIKeuoDKrP9RLI7rkZQBSxtDxsr3OD7YzRMEo/ BC5E+D3O/gRNEgEo4v1/xo8AW/JJGjiiYQIxTJs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxhjlVtrAErU9UofnlFuZEk1k6T+HkwybZ2Sw235C2wEXNJrbbck0KD/xNko+jG37R9VXqWNxwySP+4o/j738s= X-Received: by 2002:a92:c08c:: with SMTP id h12mr41620646ile.183.1574849496277; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 02:11:36 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <83wobmqv4p.fsf@gnu.org> <83v9r6qu8c.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83v9r6qu8c.fsf@gnu.org> From: Justin Paston-Cooper Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 11:11:24 +0100 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) What's the decision on this? If positive, should I email a patch, or is there someone who deals with documentation? On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 at 21:05, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > From: Justin Paston-Cooper > > Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 20:47:54 +0100 > > Cc: 38392@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > I can see zap-to-char mentioned and linked in the above sections, but > > not zap-***up***-to-char. > > Sorry, you are right. > > This command isn't even in NEWS, so it's completely undocumented. From unknown Mon Aug 18 04:45:23 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#38392: zap-up-to-char should appear in "Deletion and Killing" Emacs info section and "Command Index" Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 15:43:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 38392 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Justin Paston-Cooper , Eli Zaretskii Cc: 38392@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 38392-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B38392.157486935820892 (code B ref 38392); Wed, 27 Nov 2019 15:43:01 +0000 Received: (at 38392) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Nov 2019 15:42:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56089 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iZzSf-0005Qt-K3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 10:42:37 -0500 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:54470) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iZzSb-0005Qe-GX for 38392@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 10:42:35 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id xARFdDaB087300; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 15:42:27 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2019-08-05; bh=5L6CpYzw9hScX28BOY90oEh06uZ1ypPoMgJn6zNF7Aw=; b=TmSxKxWbG2eLUfHVq2dWezCa1+rpaGYuIpMlk1nTeNkI75cl6J7M7aUUo/S3ZqhdMgft WGNa6alhNyV9S2LMjjgp/uelNElo7ETi9GLUdTVEw91T6pCGLi1gka4Q+a4OzWp+DF2W rbBfKsAav+qC398bnOkw5T55CAaZjsZmILWQ4wwNJVtxgam+HOvF/BvohtmtejYzuW02 aPyXWbWTQzfhXUvarwiURg6DwwzjXAb9IuLba3Zyj6ug2zOTz//CNrOc5EylwxEv3TeH fjDcaDdhvgToyL191Peiuw4bTIKqCpuok4hGK5hfDH17K4w1MarN3AW/CkYigNfD3N8C vw== Received: from aserp3030.oracle.com (aserp3030.oracle.com [141.146.126.71]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2wevqqef0a-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 27 Nov 2019 15:42:27 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id xARFd1rx128895; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 15:40:27 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2wgwuur4eg-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 27 Nov 2019 15:40:27 +0000 Received: from abhmp0007.oracle.com (abhmp0007.oracle.com [141.146.116.13]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id xARFeQZA020895; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 15:40:26 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <4eba4e99-0aa0-4194-a5d1-842b039e377d@default> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 07:40:25 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <83wobmqv4p.fsf@gnu.org> <83v9r6qu8c.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4927.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9454 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1911140001 definitions=main-1911270137 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9454 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1911140001 definitions=main-1911270137 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > not zap-***up***-to-char. In Isearch we now have `isearch-yank-until-char'. So we now have two different ways to name something that deals with text from point forward to, but not including, the position of some char: "up to" vs "until". It would be better to have a single way to name this. --- Considering that the names `zap-to-char' and `zap-up-to-char' are so close, and they can be confused (witness Eli's missing the difference here, at first), "until" seems a bit better. On the other hand, "until" has a strong connotation of time, and a weak one of space/distance. And "up to" is pretty clear, if taken apart from "to". Really, `zap-to-char' should probably be called `zap-through-char'. I'd suggest using the terms "until" (for "up to") and "through" (for zap "to"). In the improvements I suggested for Isearch (bug #37417, emacs-devel thread "PATCH: isearch-yank-until-match" and part of thread "PATCH: isearch-yank-until-char"), I used "through" for commands that act from point through some position: `isearch-yank-through-new-match', `isearch-yank-through-key-move', and `isearch-yank-through-rec-edit-move'. From unknown Mon Aug 18 04:45:23 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#38392: zap-up-to-char should appear in "Deletion and Killing" Emacs info section and "Command Index" Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 15:55:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 38392 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Justin Paston-Cooper Cc: 38392@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 38392-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B38392.157487008721931 (code B ref 38392); Wed, 27 Nov 2019 15:55:02 +0000 Received: (at 38392) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Nov 2019 15:54:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56094 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iZzeQ-0005he-Ri for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 10:54:47 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:45294) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iZzeP-0005hQ-6Q for 38392@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 10:54:46 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:52246) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iZzeK-0004gA-05; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 10:54:40 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1965 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1iZzeJ-0005eX-EY; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 10:54:39 -0500 Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 17:54:49 +0200 Message-Id: <83a78hqppy.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: (message from Justin Paston-Cooper on Wed, 27 Nov 2019 11:11:24 +0100) References: <83wobmqv4p.fsf@gnu.org> <83v9r6qu8c.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Justin Paston-Cooper > Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 11:11:24 +0100 > Cc: 38392@debbugs.gnu.org > > What's the decision on this? If positive, should I email a patch, or > is there someone who deals with documentation? I'm not sure we should have it in the manual. The fact that you wanted it doesn't yet mean it's useful enough to have in the manual. Does anyone else have an opinion? From unknown Mon Aug 18 04:45:23 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#38392: zap-up-to-char should appear in "Deletion and Killing" Emacs info section and "Command Index" Resent-From: Justin Paston-Cooper Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 15:59:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 38392 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 38392@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 38392-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B38392.157487028222224 (code B ref 38392); Wed, 27 Nov 2019 15:59:01 +0000 Received: (at 38392) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Nov 2019 15:58:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56098 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iZzha-0005mO-CI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 10:58:02 -0500 Received: from mail-io1-f67.google.com ([209.85.166.67]:39164) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iZzhZ-0005lv-2O for 38392@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 10:58:01 -0500 Received: by mail-io1-f67.google.com with SMTP id k1so25409842ioj.6 for <38392@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 07:58:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=yKT7EnPOtT0utUsyLcEpnAKCBU1VgLUdHSbPafo9MJs=; b=RaEjqqmmpvCw7VqLWaauH1DWiB1OQmd1GmK5PfI5ObheQW5IHwz+TA9mfyYfvPRDbH 2ixzFlQFM3+O1bjf9DUgbmSRgTaTl48bGjIeUvRJaekWuewWOo9IdcZE7jeHJ1mNqBF9 VJr0PNITHOND/wj4zJ5jwkbWT9j8coTJ7MmY5FqEF8f6g2xrXyvi5NmKk09gS6c1vyZt nHU/WYTRJrxmkih9oxD7p/j1/rp22Hj0tDpapkuTNZrecAz/Y+xpMkJlRwTpX5h3wIFP 9FQeL+RXCHrfLDdjT+8H3IhOl04ABOEO1LxmQ6Nj5xaMkPt4gWM7HKpysQX0iZlP15P6 /pPQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=yKT7EnPOtT0utUsyLcEpnAKCBU1VgLUdHSbPafo9MJs=; b=UBxvsZ3HviZFixcUpyeDRaVPrWQD6mGPNuRWZq2sGFfQUBfIlH1s4DABp/VIJlYVWZ yX9m85z91OAl/yVhkDj+WewBxUU3wa9MLGubgAvDGwNZSm2HmD2qWAyGph6Ydn9E/Sx7 YgZ70hjGFFDQuTdUC0bTnQ3NUw5JwGDR95fdZ9h0gf3HcdW3F3y6vtQpeZWzBb7bUJK0 qJXPacs6du5k2s2zeF+QxFnbV9ozE7IpDnYtayb/dN1U7j66Pv5zMuxkHDowJxvPTj98 0uPApI5YVjNHW/GHxIf9mjH905W4KAP8w73vENascDhLsbnO50rQeqRvQmoL6PRSH+Xr +q3A== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAW84Sy2rnicNfIQAw0a2UV/9TPFGsu2v6oHR47X/o16jEH6XOU4 PeS3T3oHWpRQbAGwDooHHvWv0pcMXO4lrkNL+/w= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxVkci2hUNIHKbsb6w8RrXLoQh34ei33yOK4MM7j+FjTKDmv1HQxOfuwk9ryY6AOSUqMlZvUnkCNAuxP+CfCLo= X-Received: by 2002:a02:55c3:: with SMTP id e186mr5112741jab.143.1574870275149; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 07:57:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <83wobmqv4p.fsf@gnu.org> <83v9r6qu8c.fsf@gnu.org> <4eba4e99-0aa0-4194-a5d1-842b039e377d@default> In-Reply-To: <4eba4e99-0aa0-4194-a5d1-842b039e377d@default> From: Justin Paston-Cooper Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 16:57:43 +0100 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) What about having a class of inclusivity modifiers of the form `C-I element` (I is isomorphic to set of inclusivities {before, through, after}), element is either RET for defining inclusivity alone, or a `regexp RET` for including a certain pattern, similar to C-u, which would pass an argument to things like C-f, C-b, C-s and do the appropriate? On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 at 16:42, Drew Adams wrote: > > > not zap-***up***-to-char. > > In Isearch we now have `isearch-yank-until-char'. > > So we now have two different ways to name something > that deals with text from point forward to, but not > including, the position of some char: "up to" vs > "until". > > It would be better to have a single way to name this. > > --- > > Considering that the names `zap-to-char' and > `zap-up-to-char' are so close, and they can be > confused (witness Eli's missing the difference > here, at first), "until" seems a bit better. > > On the other hand, "until" has a strong connotation > of time, and a weak one of space/distance. And "up > to" is pretty clear, if taken apart from "to". > > Really, `zap-to-char' should probably be called > `zap-through-char'. I'd suggest using the terms > "until" (for "up to") and "through" (for zap "to"). > > In the improvements I suggested for Isearch (bug > #37417, emacs-devel thread "PATCH: > isearch-yank-until-match" and part of thread > "PATCH: isearch-yank-until-char"), I used > "through" for commands that act from point through > some position: `isearch-yank-through-new-match', > `isearch-yank-through-key-move', and > `isearch-yank-through-rec-edit-move'. From unknown Mon Aug 18 04:45:23 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#38392: zap-up-to-char should appear in "Deletion and Killing" Emacs info section and "Command Index" Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 16:05:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 38392 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Justin Paston-Cooper Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 38392@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 38392-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B38392.157487068622912 (code B ref 38392); Wed, 27 Nov 2019 16:05:02 +0000 Received: (at 38392) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Nov 2019 16:04:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56112 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iZzo6-0005xU-3N for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 11:04:46 -0500 Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:33734) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iZzo4-0005xG-1Y for 38392@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 11:04:44 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id xARG1dkm091296; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 16:04:37 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2019-08-05; bh=o7Ekgj3VGY1qDkBrZ9pLBRpeNnzSXWxklRT1hm7NZlA=; b=nvJJnsqzl2kis6l+qG+P9T3N9BP0PmD4ltZdAxUrydEnnm+7jGZQhu2+WT+6v6F/1KTx FnIoCxGf2D3Ld81+OjLVCf8fZFQ8ry0+fleQATa0D5vFvzi//sJ3UiAiuUQM6N+EX9Bo 4rrrlaFo3thRMJfPFQv1C9CKZ327FYdHz1ndF2FXYrt3Et/TS3RzZmZ5W5QHaPnvjt8D Dh97ZiMICSJbP0YKLQCx8R6a+TpjGarOjG3mtHHtCXNlzO3roO70lzNrmwzUxMybQcIj 1FYDO2O0c747dQdytEYslTGQUDjMV9MR5U5WcciYbo0zToIW5WwGITAFAKzlQwIoVYRN Yw== Received: from userp3030.oracle.com (userp3030.oracle.com [156.151.31.80]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2wewdreeur-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 27 Nov 2019 16:04:37 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id xARG3Iba102671; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 16:04:36 GMT Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by userp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2wgvhcdabq-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 27 Nov 2019 16:04:29 +0000 Received: from abhmp0015.oracle.com (abhmp0015.oracle.com [141.146.116.21]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id xARG46QE032244; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 16:04:07 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 08:04:06 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <83wobmqv4p.fsf@gnu.org> <83v9r6qu8c.fsf@gnu.org> <4eba4e99-0aa0-4194-a5d1-842b039e377d@default> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4927.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9454 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1911140001 definitions=main-1911270138 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9454 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1911140001 definitions=main-1911270138 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > What about having a class of inclusivity modifiers of the form `C-I > element` (I is isomorphic to set of inclusivities {before, through, ^^^^^^ > after}), ^^^^^ > element is either RET for defining inclusivity alone, or a > `regexp RET` for including a certain pattern, similar to C-u, which > would pass an argument to things like C-f, C-b, C-s and do the > appropriate? Just a comment about "before" and "after": Those terms should be used only if the functionality really does proceed in a particular buffer direction. For example, the proposed Isearch commands I mentioned, which have names with "through", can work in either forward or backward direction, so in their case "after" or "before" would be wrong, for the command name. From unknown Mon Aug 18 04:45:23 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#38392: zap-up-to-char should appear in "Deletion and Killing" Emacs info section and "Command Index" Resent-From: Justin Paston-Cooper Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 16:06:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 38392 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 38392@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 38392-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B38392.157487076023033 (code B ref 38392); Wed, 27 Nov 2019 16:06:01 +0000 Received: (at 38392) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Nov 2019 16:06:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56116 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iZzpI-0005zQ-Cp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 11:06:00 -0500 Received: from mail-io1-f68.google.com ([209.85.166.68]:40718) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iZzpG-0005zD-Q9 for 38392@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 11:05:59 -0500 Received: by mail-io1-f68.google.com with SMTP id b26so23533940ion.7 for <38392@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 08:05:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=eES7zgiPcLYwuXuH/tb3zJunc5GeYIWoWwqNYO/qDOU=; b=ejcM02kaN/EorsJVGeo4ePGE6DQmWs1YjDPwLYatlA7GqpZ0VEZd/AHEAorkslevhr PqCqGcwdhfh6Y09uR1NeAMpx5X/bvbnGU3fzG+8n6cJOqWE8OQUlIa+k2Lf09aTyBpe+ vwpMaPgBleNCd1GzmHqPhVrMXHt08EDEb4GPKkCzKln1HlLcldJvE7r3f70UYk/c6Hnp obz7EPYPIIwR+LbZ5jWv4fZkOZgwO+AO8HxgOf20tJ1/jz4t3ZHEJcZud71p8HGO+sEY 4h4XjNUnU8sQXX+G4TRTZnou2QDGZZVzygf6xUEf8MW4ZHvEpMsqLui4HJqdHZMpoB9O czlg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=eES7zgiPcLYwuXuH/tb3zJunc5GeYIWoWwqNYO/qDOU=; b=DhetIAM2XMzd0qCu6nlfIy88qVy8Ate0GdZ7HL/b9nFiO9KZzkxKDdcBdzSYLvvKas 6H/aW3o2WSaSJYe4kSV/zcnYx+BJWFHZdGCk4lxLO9snYVKqrpLgxf+3NR4A4DX9pXJP FYgVSQ8lr2aqD1CGPRc8dnaP9suc8R0ap7KBlqARuZUfk4DE/UQVGrY1J74d9cGq+6t/ YpNocNn/JGfGWXmtqCaD5GMw1nNy/c1oPz8UOSQ8rcys7CoPHY6WU2sp0ltzpMg15VRx bxYh+SUSIU9N8tOpKdGlD2GOJEmVHx9mb1o1eaDoDh8S+wtCBtddcpKxh6lY3jU9JksW 0RJw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUsK5S78v3CRQ2iZ8S4Q5AF4VTlqEhtQX1Jf4v4YCcm98UiDoRe W9ZNsj79FUVffIMPvXI4/Qcwg+L2BtFujUtbsAw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxfpP38BdCEaJM6EbU/OUM0tkDlLu0niHSqoPv6hzrvY+yJe/YVj5mrqDJ93HEYHfkENojmAhKxpJd+pdndg5A= X-Received: by 2002:a5e:9e43:: with SMTP id j3mr2239187ioq.183.1574870753102; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 08:05:53 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <83wobmqv4p.fsf@gnu.org> <83v9r6qu8c.fsf@gnu.org> <4eba4e99-0aa0-4194-a5d1-842b039e377d@default> In-Reply-To: From: Justin Paston-Cooper Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 17:05:41 +0100 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) What about near, through and far? On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 at 17:04, Drew Adams wrote: > > > What about having a class of inclusivity modifiers of the form `C-I > > element` (I is isomorphic to set of inclusivities {before, through, > ^^^^^^ > > after}), > ^^^^^ > > element is either RET for defining inclusivity alone, or a > > `regexp RET` for including a certain pattern, similar to C-u, which > > would pass an argument to things like C-f, C-b, C-s and do the > > appropriate? > > Just a comment about "before" and "after": > > Those terms should be used only if the functionality > really does proceed in a particular buffer direction. > > For example, the proposed Isearch commands I > mentioned, which have names with "through", can > work in either forward or backward direction, so > in their case "after" or "before" would be wrong, > for the command name. From unknown Mon Aug 18 04:45:23 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#38392: zap-up-to-char should appear in "Deletion and Killing" Emacs info section and "Command Index" Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 16:45:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 38392 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Justin Paston-Cooper Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 38392@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 38392-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B38392.15748731011557 (code B ref 38392); Wed, 27 Nov 2019 16:45:02 +0000 Received: (at 38392) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Nov 2019 16:45:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56142 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ia0R2-0000P3-Sy for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 11:45:01 -0500 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:44018) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ia0R0-0000Op-Hj for 38392@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 11:44:59 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id xARGYW3k136708; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 16:44:52 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2019-08-05; bh=RMFXD1kUlt0X6KXXtvQhrQoeLYeBlidueZFNe01acaE=; b=sJ9QXggBoeej+ihJh4pwo/da8PrPKsuln15h+FIobFDREwDrxADKtjDdAD1GLZ7N5EPn m8jJynOpcQjxy6/xR+ZK4MMzzgAt2a/trYjVOWup4hQrsC+aRDXupabB5zLaNqTUhZ4f 2wXjTv8M0ZUknGyLyuomME+QoDbhKE6JnlQGXoSWOiAedCJV5J4eThxTWDx4rhT7vqAy k8E/l3+TpaNLUXtVJwI1fq/8CyKLVTqrM5m2tt4oA4fh3J1AA1TMXqpe5WEF949wMa+T Jfl7G+g5KklqwoGGZ85ZtDU2aQ/uCnrEaGCtiiM+b+LBeu98YAX4FpxWRkXc4JdX/5PR vQ== Received: from aserp3020.oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [141.146.126.70]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2wevqqetvb-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 27 Nov 2019 16:44:52 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id xARGYQnE175682; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 16:44:51 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2wh0rk7h3s-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 27 Nov 2019 16:44:51 +0000 Received: from abhmp0019.oracle.com (abhmp0019.oracle.com [141.146.116.25]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id xARGioZC017376; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 16:44:50 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <22696cf2-bdb7-44d4-a586-daf1a8901250@default> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 08:44:50 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <83wobmqv4p.fsf@gnu.org> <83v9r6qu8c.fsf@gnu.org> <4eba4e99-0aa0-4194-a5d1-842b039e377d@default> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4927.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9454 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1911140001 definitions=main-1911270140 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9454 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1911140001 definitions=main-1911270140 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > What about near, through and far? What about them? I've already spoken to "through". How do you see "near" and "far" fitting into this? From unknown Mon Aug 18 04:45:23 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#38392: zap-up-to-char should appear in "Deletion and Killing" Emacs info section and "Command Index" Resent-From: Justin Paston-Cooper Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 19:36:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 38392 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 38392@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 38392-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B38392.157488332317384 (code B ref 38392); Wed, 27 Nov 2019 19:36:02 +0000 Received: (at 38392) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Nov 2019 19:35:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56234 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ia35u-0004WK-PT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 14:35:23 -0500 Received: from mail-io1-f53.google.com ([209.85.166.53]:47052) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ia35s-0004Vz-S2 for 38392@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 14:35:21 -0500 Received: by mail-io1-f53.google.com with SMTP id i11so26124569iol.13 for <38392@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 11:35:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ha23Fk1GOB2gpdKsEs/zWDa7wInuM+i7YamauDgoJZ0=; b=MySUewPKzxGtNaPTbRn7pmJAcNeYFvx+Ycqnc9SQosEgN3l9FjQrEuuRoYEJ8igzPr +F1ythF8c6Zgd5AvWtdvyl+gHiffAT54lqiUvWI+p2RgB3LpEOhKweJhcQ+k9OCv67gL TGuyJ2mvBN6nj9noUxtQU7budlYkLIwZTAPE54msUZgvdOI8tE2ml70FoL9zm1WRZQ5T i0ju7tY/nEcXtbn1ZxRh5u6I5BYqU4C5VNaPlLHyv3pMjKkfDI9BurmTrz2XqSZK0YqX L75XvmDgRh2zmCsHGYz1/j2p0rkdKwlpe34oLHcamYBJ814jmqwPocuMaa574Q/JwQyL xWig== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ha23Fk1GOB2gpdKsEs/zWDa7wInuM+i7YamauDgoJZ0=; b=l2xDo7RBRS64xuYqO2Fs6cK/Bf1ckYmqZP2QOvZrW+iNJRtK7RZhKHYga5Iom6cq4r bqWWwWM+KIpK8czS+yXpyGY9ESrlhsNqxFllntjlxEv/D8uYqgVuDEpDyJP+vt3WbGLL mryy1sZHVqDXlkXhhd4nOI6kWqKuIB0QSP6FqeP1Zd5bEd1b1Nqbec1CYNPCv60AiNWX sTm/0ecEQlgypig0uM+82Ivm1GmROme7Ukerqd8tp/cfhIEZOanEAOJ0V43zgHJZg8zB r4jz4aXsBd8eLPCQ/gkTBH6/89pYFkYDk3xlPvKZm+rGNAA5IFbWG/EdfvIJb9bZ4AuA 0F1w== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVtBaaKSJt4JK1VU4C7axzTUVSpU6UBjcrLQ9lC8fyX8Fa4IpxI tV+Os9NVTBJMZHhGON/6WDhnqiwNH0m7+NNVvMM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqw5ZSRbwjG5eRAAvrWcV2LT/+4vZ4FpdgHVEot02iSpq+3zv24us3o4eEbpoWP4ZgnDmg9roc1IfzkobnBhPjU= X-Received: by 2002:a02:cb4d:: with SMTP id k13mr1620437jap.89.1574883314917; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 11:35:14 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <83wobmqv4p.fsf@gnu.org> <83v9r6qu8c.fsf@gnu.org> <4eba4e99-0aa0-4194-a5d1-842b039e377d@default> <22696cf2-bdb7-44d4-a586-daf1a8901250@default> In-Reply-To: <22696cf2-bdb7-44d4-a586-daf1a8901250@default> From: Justin Paston-Cooper Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 20:35:03 +0100 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008c6a39059859187c" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --0000000000008c6a39059859187c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry for my terrible reading comprehension. I suppose you=E2=80=99re saying that exactly two =E2=80=98inclusivities=E2= =80=99 suffice: =E2=80=98up to/until=E2=80=99 and 'through' in your case, which makes complete sense. I have found that both 'up to' and 'until' are still ambiguous, for instance when trying to agree on a date with someone. This ambiguity might carry over to the Emacs world, where a user might not know that there is another distinct inclusivity called 'through'. 'up to' and 'until' can mean either 'inclusive' or 'exclusive', this seemingly depending on the phase of the Moon. I still use the words 'inclusive' and 'exclusive' to confirm. I hope that at least programmers don't find that silly. Of course, there is an existing precedent of 'up to', 'until', 'through' and 'to'. Regardless of the naming, wouldn=E2=80=99t an inclusivity modifier over the= set of two inclusivities be a nice thing to have? On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 at 17:45, Drew Adams wrote: > > What about near, through and far? > > What about them? > > I've already spoken to "through". How do you > see "near" and "far" fitting into this? > --0000000000008c6a39059859187c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sorry for my terrible reading = comprehension.

I suppose you=E2=80=99re saying that exactly two =E2=80=98inclusivities= =E2=80=99 suffice: =E2=80=98up to/until=E2=80=99 and 'through' in y= our case, which makes complete sense.

I have found that both 'up to' and 'until' ar= e still ambiguous, for instance when trying to agree on a date with someone= . This ambiguity might carry over to the Emacs world, where a user might no= t know that there is another distinct inclusivity called 'through'.= 'up to' and 'until' can mean either 'inclusive' or= 'exclusive', this seemingly depending on the phase of the Moon. I = still use the words 'inclusive' and 'exclusive' to confirm.= I hope that at least programmers don't find that silly. Of course, the= re is an existing precedent of 'up to', 'until', 'throu= gh' and 'to'.

Regardless of the naming, wouldn=E2=80=99t an inclusivity modifier ov= er the set of two inclusivities be a nice thing to have?

On = Wed, 27 Nov 2019 at 17:45, Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> wrote:
> What about near, throug= h and far?

What about them?

I've already spoken to "through".=C2=A0 How do you
see "near" and "far" fitting into this?
--0000000000008c6a39059859187c-- From unknown Mon Aug 18 04:45:23 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#38392: zap-up-to-char should appear in "Deletion and Killing" Emacs info section and "Command Index" Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 21:47:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 38392 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Justin Paston-Cooper Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 38392@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 38392-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B38392.157489120030269 (code B ref 38392); Wed, 27 Nov 2019 21:47:01 +0000 Received: (at 38392) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Nov 2019 21:46:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56280 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ia58y-0007s8-Im for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 16:46:40 -0500 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:40202) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ia58w-0007rs-AM for 38392@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 16:46:38 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id xARLiQLB183413; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 21:46:30 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2019-08-05; bh=ANRsaMmPebPdjY9HyZ41FT/coxQF+FsPG9DUXCRadY4=; b=HrtoPAWgyEkQD+TKPFmOm4J+PZaO1XejsOGYoNgiVLtjn+kO3l7c+Gt31bM4Y3RFyui2 htlMDJnBSMkErLk+g77PRpi/pmCXkkJGwP9gL5MxIsLxEKlnWwVq9xUAQn67qEOBR5cb oeW8rYlrALsrVP3YuMnFGYLZx06joNNomTsd6U1EYOIGx6xenLduCsJbfm/ydOGr25YN LKlIlR6zkSUrExEBOV9Qt/tTWq5C3EPg3SHQxQ7g4s6AWtKC140biOxUyak0C31q4ZNl Wj2zUO8OzpLYUw3QNYDdqZwspHP5ADwXlSOxJVsU5SD2plxIlTr1XUN/6tKJUWrDPUze Mg== Received: from aserp3020.oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [141.146.126.70]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2wevqqg4xs-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 27 Nov 2019 21:46:29 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id xARLiM8p176820; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 21:46:29 GMT Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2wh0rmhkbx-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 27 Nov 2019 21:46:29 +0000 Received: from abhmp0015.oracle.com (abhmp0015.oracle.com [141.146.116.21]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id xARLkQ7b007874; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 21:46:26 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 13:46:25 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <83wobmqv4p.fsf@gnu.org> <83v9r6qu8c.fsf@gnu.org> <4eba4e99-0aa0-4194-a5d1-842b039e377d@default> <22696cf2-bdb7-44d4-a586-daf1a8901250@default> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4927.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9454 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1911140001 definitions=main-1911270175 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9454 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1911140001 definitions=main-1911270175 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > I suppose you=E2=80=99re saying that exactly two =E2=80=98inclusivities= =E2=80=99 suffice: =E2=80=98up to/until=E2=80=99 and 'through' in your case= , which makes complete sense. I wasn't speaking to what might suffice. I was just pointing out that we use `up-to' for zapping and `until' for searching - an= d we mean the same thing by them. And I mentioned `through' as a possible = name for including the final char.=20 > I have found that both 'up to' and 'until' are still ambiguous, for insta= nce when trying to agree on a date with someone. This ambiguity might carry= over to the Emacs world, where a user might not know that there is another= distinct inclusivity called 'through'. 'up to' and 'until' can mean either= 'inclusive' or 'exclusive', this seemingly depending on the phase of the M= oon. I still use the words 'inclusive' and 'exclusive' to confirm. I hope t= hat at least programmers don't find that silly. Of course, there is an exis= ting precedent of 'up to', 'until', 'through' and 'to'. Yes, the terms are ambiguous. If we use consistent names and the doc is clear then I don't think there's a problem in practice. But yes, in conversation, and particularly with dates/times, people can need to discuss a bit to be sure to be on the same page. > Regardless of the naming, wouldn=E2=80=99t an inclusivity modifier over t= he set of two inclusivities be a nice thing to have? No idea. Modifier where? Here we're talking about function names. I don't think we need to or should add such a thing to the names. From unknown Mon Aug 18 04:45:23 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#38392: zap-up-to-char should appear in "Deletion and Killing" Emacs info section and "Command Index" Resent-From: Justin Paston-Cooper Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 22:11:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 38392 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 38392@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 38392-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B38392.15748926337956 (code B ref 38392); Wed, 27 Nov 2019 22:11:02 +0000 Received: (at 38392) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Nov 2019 22:10:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56344 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ia5W4-00024G-Nb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 17:10:33 -0500 Received: from mail-il1-f180.google.com ([209.85.166.180]:46599) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ia5W2-000241-Sa for 38392@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 17:10:31 -0500 Received: by mail-il1-f180.google.com with SMTP id q1so22373024ile.13 for <38392@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 14:10:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=nZc2Sf4cXEus2e0kCF5VmiP6SSx3wv2LLEMe/yN2CE0=; b=V/edIPnrEZZutKmvZl5oj+5RB1z3tJLBQRbPU/ygclkx5Ds89Hy0+KWIg/aKqYICFS HJXz5CxhOlR/5EbD2sjT9tWZURpvvbf4IrFsed7JgKy7HtA1a4fFjvqGFpBPY6sMh8d/ aNQR+QgN71aP0GcD2uvBmuqihsZoIbpOLwrIQ4nwXSzg5RbA9hgRZ+C+sYVMhVoiyGil 4hSJQ5LfCdGvrr2DohCZ3eZ0G7Dl4T1TSnMquOUrRYk9UKq6v9AL9ozCM6HWwpguiSYV vISQvK0pSUyJhBhAIRgq87PyrALXLCyCxSHolCPLr3cz/F7fZwyvpI1LlYBq9sevfnAV kImQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=nZc2Sf4cXEus2e0kCF5VmiP6SSx3wv2LLEMe/yN2CE0=; b=opgzoc1GBS3WTdc4PSdkrh5SJNv6iCp/ZHxBdww5s2hZ71avPvt8MRQXVAlr3R5K43 zzr+6SurjFWO4BPlZB1nTDs038VkFYaktSfrQMAn5DK5t9SMUKZQjJQDwErSDYJ9GFXo 6S+jzqD9LrrPuWDw7meUW7GvnlZ87uXDNHjFAfIWg4O6pWtSwkxBMZ5cI2S8eK3TQCXL 925UA3lKsN1UvBlh7qV1qwfsrq/MgQuLokAQh4RW8OMUxwKucpEAoY8EjWTUUjw4tUE5 PLk/naW975PABp6xrUFnZEq76P1XhPb5tIXyuV9grcVDItwuX/AP5oe5BKZPZgVR7CeV qweA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUyO9tBBfh7V4YHHxCFZ8A2TJFAHOzGjvAZ3OWzkqTM0Vo9vafW OmzROp9rCG/vztKjNSnwE3Ix9vLRaGKDkECtMIQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyFC+mMHqtrcuCzNZ+DVd2us8IoKfbS43iVj/wPnOugyXvOjtI+Q/2Lfu0IjQmC6nG5AJ0mlTQBDzAWGMeVg0M= X-Received: by 2002:a92:5a0c:: with SMTP id o12mr49402625ilb.113.1574892625240; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 14:10:25 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <83wobmqv4p.fsf@gnu.org> <83v9r6qu8c.fsf@gnu.org> <4eba4e99-0aa0-4194-a5d1-842b039e377d@default> <22696cf2-bdb7-44d4-a586-daf1a8901250@default> In-Reply-To: From: Justin Paston-Cooper Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 23:10:14 +0100 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007ca7a205985b43e0" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --0000000000007ca7a205985b43e0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 at 22:46, Drew Adams wrote: > > I suppose you=E2=80=99re saying that exactly two =E2=80=98inclusivities= =E2=80=99 suffice: =E2=80=98up > to/until=E2=80=99 and 'through' in your case, which makes complete sense. > > I wasn't speaking to what might suffice. I was just > pointing out that we use `up-to' for zapping and `until' for searching - > and we mean the same thing by them. And I mentioned `through' as a > possible name for including the final char. > > > I have found that both 'up to' and 'until' are still ambiguous, for > instance when trying to agree on a date with someone. This ambiguity migh= t > carry over to the Emacs world, where a user might not know that there is > another distinct inclusivity called 'through'. 'up to' and 'until' can me= an > either 'inclusive' or 'exclusive', this seemingly depending on the phase = of > the Moon. I still use the words 'inclusive' and 'exclusive' to confirm. I > hope that at least programmers don't find that silly. Of course, there is > an existing precedent of 'up to', 'until', 'through' and 'to'. > > Yes, the terms are ambiguous. If we use consistent > names and the doc is clear then I don't think there's > a problem in practice. But yes, in conversation, > and particularly with dates/times, people can need > to discuss a bit to be sure to be on the same page. Fair enough. > > > Regardless of the naming, wouldn=E2=80=99t an inclusivity modifier over= the set > of two inclusivities be a nice thing to have? > > No idea. Modifier where? Here we're talking about > function names. I don't think we need to or should > add such a thing to the names. > The idea was that there could be a key combination entered before command= s related to movement, killing, searching and so on which would pass an argument to those commands determining their inclusivity. Similar to the idea behind T and t in viper-mode. Not sure how it would tie in with the numerical argument, though. --0000000000007ca7a205985b43e0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 at 22:46, Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> wrote:
> = I suppose you=E2=80=99re saying that exactly two =E2=80=98inclusivities=E2= =80=99 suffice: =E2=80=98up to/until=E2=80=99 and 'through' in your= case, which makes complete sense.

I wasn't speaking to what might suffice.=C2=A0 I was just
pointing out that we use `up-to' for zapping and `until' for search= ing - and we mean the same thing by them.=C2=A0 And I mentioned `through= 9; as a possible name for including the final char.


> I have found that both 'up to' and 'until' are still a= mbiguous, for instance when trying to agree on a date with someone. This am= biguity might carry over to the Emacs world, where a user might not know th= at there is another distinct inclusivity called 'through'. 'up = to' and 'until' can mean either 'inclusive' or 'exc= lusive', this seemingly depending on the phase of the Moon. I still use= the words 'inclusive' and 'exclusive' to confirm. I hope t= hat at least programmers don't find that silly. Of course, there is an = existing precedent of 'up to', 'until', 'through' a= nd 'to'.

Yes, the terms are ambiguous.=C2=A0 If we use consistent
names and the doc is clear then I don't think there's
a problem in practice.=C2=A0 But yes, in conversation,
and particularly with dates/times, people can need
to discuss a bit to be sure to be on the same page.

Fair enough.=C2=A0



> Regardless of the naming, wouldn=E2=80=99t an inclusivity modifier ove= r the set of two inclusivities be a nice thing to have?

No idea.=C2=A0 Modifier where?=C2=A0 Here we're talking about
function names.=C2=A0 I don't think we need to or should
add such a thing to the names.
<= br>
The idea was that there could be= a key combination entered before commands related to movement, killing, se= arching and so on which would pass an argument to those commands determinin= g their inclusivity. Similar to the idea behind T and t in viper-mode. Not = sure how it would tie in with the numerical argument, though.
--0000000000007ca7a205985b43e0-- From unknown Mon Aug 18 04:45:23 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#38392: zap-up-to-char should appear in "Deletion and Killing" Emacs info section and "Command Index" Resent-From: Phil Sainty Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2019 00:46:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 38392 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 38392@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 38392-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B38392.157490192423397 (code B ref 38392); Thu, 28 Nov 2019 00:46:01 +0000 Received: (at 38392) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Nov 2019 00:45:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56449 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ia7vw-00065J-Dm for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 19:45:24 -0500 Received: from smtp-2.orcon.net.nz ([60.234.4.43]:34295) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ia7vu-000658-Lb for 38392@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 19:45:23 -0500 Received: from [10.253.37.70] (port=40122 helo=webmail.orcon.net.nz) by smtp-2.orcon.net.nz with esmtpa (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ia7vs-0000eZ-50 for 38392@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2019 13:45:20 +1300 Received: from wlgwil-nat-office.catalyst.net.nz ([202.78.240.7]) via [10.253.37.253] by webmail.orcon.net.nz with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Thu, 28 Nov 2019 13:45:20 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2019 13:45:20 +1300 From: Phil Sainty In-Reply-To: References: <83wobmqv4p.fsf@gnu.org> <83v9r6qu8c.fsf@gnu.org> <4eba4e99-0aa0-4194-a5d1-842b039e377d@default> <22696cf2-bdb7-44d4-a586-daf1a8901250@default> Message-ID: X-Sender: psainty@orcon.net.nz User-Agent: Orcon Webmail X-GeoIP: -- X-Spam_score: -2.9 X-Spam_score_int: -28 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Eli wrote: > I'm not sure we should have it in the manual. The fact that you > wanted it doesn't yet mean it's useful enough to have in the manual. > > Does anyone else have an opinion? Mentioning only one of the two commands just seems arbitrary, so I think it should be either "both" or "neither" for the sake of consistency. I think the manual should mention both of them, and that their docstrings should probably mention one another as well, so that users can learn about these alternatives more easily. -Phil From unknown Mon Aug 18 04:45:23 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#38392: zap-up-to-char should appear in "Deletion and Killing" Emacs info section and "Command Index" Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2019 09:21:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 38392 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Justin Paston-Cooper , 38392@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 38392-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B38392.157493284315071 (code B ref 38392); Thu, 28 Nov 2019 09:21:02 +0000 Received: (at 38392) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Nov 2019 09:20:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56618 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iaFyd-0003v0-33 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2019 04:20:43 -0500 Received: from ted.gofardesign.uk ([67.225.143.91]:47814) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iaFya-0003ui-Ic for 38392@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2019 04:20:41 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=marxist.se; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=AS013ikRSdC7j22GX3Cqp7xqjYDRe2KzLtW41m0lhsU=; b=odyw6nAOYCZ9gwNZoF5+wwPMDO h6muqtqZu0mAECux98npD/j0eH9xfB+xvDPG2OyMe6p5SBN1oBxYEiR+DuWckv0ZBYTDVxtopYJmD SlKrTJ09G848r8G/w5CKFkZHtMW2Y7D+YKDopsAdB37vuHa9RpUUEPSSZikFaW9b40jYAqL8i9oM2 1Qyu9mWlMyd892cDjpfFH7yaamEYgzRcNWMsatzry/E8nrRB/3egRxCyPqh6lEwu6h0cvJ4M5my7a CltabASH8EIG1hO2omMliSTQqXq7j/izQ0m7AFs3RKedOH024kpfwFbwhHmg2ZYod/0+uBvoW4+0p haOsW/NQ==; Received: from h-70-69.a785.priv.bahnhof.se ([155.4.70.69]:41848 helo=localhost) by ted.gofardesign.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1iaFyR-000jZf-U1; Thu, 28 Nov 2019 04:20:32 -0500 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <4eba4e99-0aa0-4194-a5d1-842b039e377d@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Wed, 27 Nov 2019 07:40:25 -0800 (PST)") References: <83wobmqv4p.fsf@gnu.org> <83v9r6qu8c.fsf@gnu.org> <4eba4e99-0aa0-4194-a5d1-842b039e377d@default> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2019 10:20:29 +0100 Message-ID: <87mucgjr1e.fsf@marxist.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ted.gofardesign.uk X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - marxist.se X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: ted.gofardesign.uk: authenticated_id: stefan@marxist.se X-Authenticated-Sender: ted.gofardesign.uk: stefan@marxist.se X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Drew Adams writes: > In Isearch we now have `isearch-yank-until-char'. > > So we now have two different ways to name something > that deals with text from point forward to, but not > including, the position of some char: "up to" vs > "until". > > It would be better to have a single way to name this. > > --- > > Considering that the names `zap-to-char' and > `zap-up-to-char' are so close, and they can be > confused (witness Eli's missing the difference > here, at first), "until" seems a bit better. > > On the other hand, "until" has a strong connotation > of time, and a weak one of space/distance. And "up > to" is pretty clear, if taken apart from "to". > > Really, `zap-to-char' should probably be called > `zap-through-char'. I'd suggest using the terms > "until" (for "up to") and "through" (for zap "to"). FWIW, I think `zap-until-char' and `zap-through-char' would be less clear than the current names. I agree with the point about consistency. It would be better then to rename `isearch-yank-until-char' to `isearch-yank-up-to-char' instead of renaming the old commands, I think. Best regards, Stefan Kangas From unknown Mon Aug 18 04:45:23 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#38392: zap-up-to-char should appear in "Deletion and Killing" Emacs info section and "Command Index" Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2019 12:50:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 38392 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Phil Sainty Cc: 38392@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 38392-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B38392.157494534432217 (code B ref 38392); Thu, 28 Nov 2019 12:50:01 +0000 Received: (at 38392) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Nov 2019 12:49:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56856 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iaJEG-0008NZ-Cg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2019 07:49:04 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:43886) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iaJEE-0008N4-Pe for 38392@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2019 07:49:03 -0500 Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=marnie) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1iaJE4-0005DM-Qk; Thu, 28 Nov 2019 13:48:55 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <83wobmqv4p.fsf@gnu.org> <83v9r6qu8c.fsf@gnu.org> <4eba4e99-0aa0-4194-a5d1-842b039e377d@default> <22696cf2-bdb7-44d4-a586-daf1a8901250@default> Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2019 13:48:52 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Phil Sainty's message of "Thu, 28 Nov 2019 13:45:20 +1300") Message-ID: <87a78gcgjv.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Phil Sainty writes: > I think the manual should mention both of them, and that their > docstrings should probably mention one another as well, so that > users can learn about these alternatives more easily. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: ingebrigtsen.no] -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Phil Sainty writes: > I think the manual should mention both of them, and that their > docstrings should probably mention one another as well, so that > users can learn about these alternatives more easily. Yup. Both variants seem equally useful (that is, not really :-)). -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From unknown Mon Aug 18 04:45:23 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#38392: zap-up-to-char should appear in "Deletion and Killing" Emacs info section and "Command Index" Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2019 16:43:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 38392 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Kangas Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Justin Paston-Cooper , 38392@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 38392-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B38392.157495936523223 (code B ref 38392); Thu, 28 Nov 2019 16:43:01 +0000 Received: (at 38392) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Nov 2019 16:42:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59066 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iaMsO-00062S-Iq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; 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Thu, 28 Nov 2019 16:42:35 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id xASGcNQ9092594; Thu, 28 Nov 2019 16:42:34 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2wjh10t7d7-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 28 Nov 2019 16:42:34 +0000 Received: from abhmp0005.oracle.com (abhmp0005.oracle.com [141.146.116.11]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id xASGgXFM028262; Thu, 28 Nov 2019 16:42:33 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <90186505-3129-402f-8bc2-babe7fed6991@default> Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2019 08:42:32 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <83wobmqv4p.fsf@gnu.org> <83v9r6qu8c.fsf@gnu.org> <4eba4e99-0aa0-4194-a5d1-842b039e377d@default> <87mucgjr1e.fsf@marxist.se> In-Reply-To: <87mucgjr1e.fsf@marxist.se> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4927.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9455 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1911140001 definitions=main-1911280140 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9455 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1911140001 definitions=main-1911280140 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > In Isearch we now have `isearch-yank-until-char'. > > > > So we now have two different ways to name something > > that deals with text from point forward to, but not > > including, the position of some char: "up to" vs > > "until". > > > > It would be better to have a single way to name this. > > > > --- > > > > Considering that the names `zap-to-char' and > > `zap-up-to-char' are so close, and they can be > > confused (witness Eli's missing the difference > > here, at first), "until" seems a bit better. > > > > On the other hand, "until" has a strong connotation > > of time, and a weak one of space/distance. And "up > > to" is pretty clear, if taken apart from "to". > > > > Really, `zap-to-char' should probably be called > > `zap-through-char'. I'd suggest using the terms > > "until" (for "up to") and "through" (for zap "to"). >=20 > FWIW, I think `zap-until-char' and `zap-through-char' would be less > clear than the current names. >=20 > I agree with the point about consistency. It would be better then to > rename `isearch-yank-until-char' to `isearch-yank-up-to-char' instead > of renaming the old commands, I think. No objection from me. Consistency can help in general, but it's not an imperative. More important than global consistency is local consistency (e.g. within Isearch, don't use more than one way to name the same thing). It's probably too late to change `zap-to-char', but I think that `through' is clearer than `to', when the char is included. `zap-through-char' would be clearer, and it's confusing to have both `-to-' and `-up-to-'. (There currently is no Isearch yank command that has "through" semantics, but I added a couple in my code and in the patch I submitted for bug #37417.) From unknown Mon Aug 18 04:45:23 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Justin Paston-Cooper Subject: bug#38392: closed (Re: bug#38392: zap-up-to-char should appear in "Deletion and Killing" Emacs info section and "Command Index") Message-ID: References: <83d0dbouho.fsf@gnu.org> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 38392 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 38392@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2019 10:20:02 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1575022802-16032-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1575022802-16032-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #38392: zap-up-to-char should appear in "Deletion and Killing" Emacs info s= ection and "Command Index" which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 38392@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 38392: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D38392 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1575022802-16032-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 38392-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Nov 2019 10:19:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59388 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iadMs-00049c-Uy for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 05:19:19 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:60284) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iadMr-00049P-9c for 38392-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 05:19:17 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:59718) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iadMi-0002LN-GM; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 05:19:09 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1485 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1iadMd-0005aQ-2B; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 05:19:04 -0500 Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2019 12:19:15 +0200 Message-Id: <83d0dbouho.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Phil Sainty In-reply-to: (message from Phil Sainty on Thu, 28 Nov 2019 13:45:20 +1300) Subject: Re: bug#38392: zap-up-to-char should appear in "Deletion and Killing" Emacs info section and "Command Index" References: <83wobmqv4p.fsf@gnu.org> <83v9r6qu8c.fsf@gnu.org> <4eba4e99-0aa0-4194-a5d1-842b039e377d@default> <22696cf2-bdb7-44d4-a586-daf1a8901250@default> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 38392-done Cc: 38392-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) > Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2019 13:45:20 +1300 > From: Phil Sainty > > Eli wrote: > > I'm not sure we should have it in the manual. The fact that you > > wanted it doesn't yet mean it's useful enough to have in the manual. > > > > Does anyone else have an opinion? > > Mentioning only one of the two commands just seems arbitrary, > so I think it should be either "both" or "neither" for the sake > of consistency. > > I think the manual should mention both of them, and that their > docstrings should probably mention one another as well, so that > users can learn about these alternatives more easily. Thanks, done (I only added the reference to the doc string of zap-to-char, though). ------------=_1575022802-16032-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Nov 2019 19:36:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52977 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iZgdc-0000SF-GJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 14:36:40 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:38785) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iZffp-0007Kr-Pn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 13:34:54 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56008) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iZffo-0004H0-D6 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 13:34:53 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,FREEMAIL_FROM, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iZffn-000470-6v for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 13:34:52 -0500 Received: from mail-io1-xd36.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::d36]:38877) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iZffn-00046P-2f for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 13:34:51 -0500 Received: by mail-io1-xd36.google.com with SMTP id u24so19992585iob.5 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 10:34:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=weFY8474CoDFDdgkYZ+f/3L+d9+7wk7b2bA5rSt964E=; b=A8+G+A4NERV5dp2YolT619njm1ST061xUGRof6AJ8IF1bv5mJj7/DLAJLkHnGElhnM eC9vbcxoz4zlXKzAujsf2NM95UIv+kCEyXP98yFoYf49ssB3U68RZsQA9NnWqloqGPrM 5id2x6RCEAJSSgZWU0LAqrFlGNKJwmYImAjv4SX/l2Ner+GcpH2mSXD2FK69RL5Q0suR sPkIt5cP5vsIHvX3xQBlbl1WqCAOOXLK/1uDhhv+hU8Hvpu7pF6NugckRMlUr1ew/yxE fk2NulS8zbGkBOGGueHyyDixOyR8cee3ujrV1g5XcuMw/RD+MryUarL9YcIQsn0Shefl 62Tg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=weFY8474CoDFDdgkYZ+f/3L+d9+7wk7b2bA5rSt964E=; b=Rjez54oa9jcPZTaTKdhCiKPhyqPzkC0LFah8qpVpCDZ85snq3+Z8QrS06DnXnMq7OM Y4uaUhNBATYJ/lsE1TlgOv8azb/whoiiWc4fOhdQqlfDlvgP5maGpdfKsA1MKF5uG3vW GLOa3pA9m8vD5THdSLURZQT4c6M6AeiITVoFPHnzqMDG9vLr+sCVvDpIYdUSSDzOAeQq fsMmE5XLQr1NxloMFnEqrqTrXK416wuAKhqt8pqwKfM/KJ/+WBImJC5D4IAgkUpCZib2 Uavn+tr+ulCkGkdTyvnNLY+6r0JallCHfcUIjWw3bmZSUZ91lWO0bax0Vkc2Wm/RfyxE emwA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXmrI99ztmPJqaLf3DaxUIKmHGFFhx+ahNIWaqS92X3W2jeT7py BarvRjcbzsnLNONv2jVCjnrmI1UgM5PY+v+X7gYKGN3k X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqx1Yb5TJbxQQOdAMORJl5n/r+hjjvZaP+BVQ0Q8Mr+ozMm3GknpseV4pIPF2ldLCsswoiRy2EB++byvJYXO1hI= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:7511:: with SMTP id l17mr3360085ioh.115.1574793289224; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 10:34:49 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Justin Paston-Cooper Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 19:34:37 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: zap-up-to-char should appear in "Deletion and Killing" Emacs info section and "Command Index" To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d36 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 14:36:39 -0500 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) Hello, According to the documentation, zap-up-to-char allows one to kill up to, but not including ARGth occurrence of CHAR. No reference is made to zap-up-to-char in https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Killing.html or https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Command-Index.html. It isn't immediately apparent from the documentation on zap-to-char in the above sections, and also from the source of zap-to-char, that there exists a way of zapping up to a char without writing this code manually. I couldn't find any combination of keys, either, to press after pressing M-z which would result in the same functionality. It took me quite a while to come across zap-up-to-char. Could documentation for this function be added to the Emacs manual? Kind regards, Justin ------------=_1575022802-16032-1-- From unknown Mon Aug 18 04:45:23 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#38392: zap-up-to-char should appear in "Deletion and Killing" Emacs info section and "Command Index" Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2019 12:16:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 38392 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Cc: Phil Sainty , 38392@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 38392-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B38392.157502974428017 (code B ref 38392); Fri, 29 Nov 2019 12:16:01 +0000 Received: (at 38392) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Nov 2019 12:15:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59660 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iafBY-0007Hp-Dx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 07:15:44 -0500 Received: from mail-pj1-f50.google.com ([209.85.216.50]:44559) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iafBW-0007HV-T8 for 38392@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 07:15:43 -0500 Received: by mail-pj1-f50.google.com with SMTP id w8so13203420pjh.11 for <38392@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 04:15:42 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=xpGh6IyCw7HzD1sLaXNK5Q02DaBY0EfUqznCqNfjCKw=; b=rQC0xpJbcXHDaQ9WAzJAMYwhH57Kveas5dPt5eqD2vOMS6dtQ6iydxW9lEPmd78WNE pmcR9OeW8aq2IcmeNzIiGucZwQSmN3/k99amWJeSt36yba1AawRkOYPkQH1ajhMZ0uKH 5MGiCpwZl4RTVvaJChDre/LJks/TXE2diZ2mV/S4xVeQtwfChG6bckeiWpCvYsv3i8WV eSyULCfwerGEcNk6i+NYBycmSqlC68PyPssEtT5/Dd1XuGFlzwGLWQlKbJZjwMF7zHKe NU/oRpmn5Kf0m59U/f0ZGQQN4cuqkFsJxNbxUPWgvtdSrNdYc9IGuWk8iUAS9BySrclP H8Cg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAU6gFYDdfo7EHf5wJrCF/uDDOTwoPhKfOpU5qP6EwNbQng6AeT5 w5DWrC2QtyqoO0bC0bqIft354TWRh/4o4HWFUmw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxsuq6iwaWQBSJSzaXpIS/pAbuhAkKtUebxQAmzauj5eo6JF+1x9w9jh+jUrKgI97CbwnZuGGqGUFa2O4j2daI= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:a40f:: with SMTP id y15mr18711782pjp.106.1575029735102; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 04:15:35 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <83wobmqv4p.fsf@gnu.org> <83v9r6qu8c.fsf@gnu.org> <4eba4e99-0aa0-4194-a5d1-842b039e377d@default> <22696cf2-bdb7-44d4-a586-daf1a8901250@default> <87a78gcgjv.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: <87a78gcgjv.fsf@gnus.org> From: Stefan Kangas Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2019 13:15:24 +0100 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > Yup. Both variants seem equally useful (that is, not really :-)). FWIW, I use zap-up-to-char almost every day. Try it! You might like it, and end up being a weirdo like me. ;-) Best regards, Stefan Kangas From unknown Mon Aug 18 04:45:23 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#38392: zap-up-to-char should appear in "Deletion and Killing" Emacs info section and "Command Index" Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 09:58:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 38392 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Kangas Cc: Phil Sainty , 38392@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 38392-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B38392.15755398253023 (code B ref 38392); Thu, 05 Dec 2019 09:58:02 +0000 Received: (at 38392) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Dec 2019 09:57:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43023 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1icnsf-0000mg-99 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Dec 2019 04:57:05 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:45914) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1icnsc-0000m7-Mz for 38392@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Dec 2019 04:57:03 -0500 Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=marnie) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1icnsU-0004Jb-8U; Thu, 05 Dec 2019 10:56:56 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <83wobmqv4p.fsf@gnu.org> <83v9r6qu8c.fsf@gnu.org> <4eba4e99-0aa0-4194-a5d1-842b039e377d@default> <22696cf2-bdb7-44d4-a586-daf1a8901250@default> <87a78gcgjv.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 10:56:53 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Fri, 29 Nov 2019 13:15:24 +0100") Message-ID: <87immvrt7e.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Kangas writes: > FWIW, I use zap-up-to-char almost every day. Try it! You might like > it, and end up being a weirdo like me. ;-) I'm very set in my "move the point around and kill the region" ways. :-) Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: ingebrigtsen.no] -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stefan Kangas writes: > FWIW, I use zap-up-to-char almost every day. Try it! You might like > it, and end up being a weirdo like me. ;-) I'm very set in my "move the point around and kill the region" ways. :-) -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no