GNU bug report logs - #38358
Subject prefix, true recipient...

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To reply to this bug, email your comments to 38358 AT debbugs.gnu.org.

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Narcis Garcia <informatica <at> actiu.net>
To: Icecat list <bug-gnuzilla <at> gnu.org>
Subject: Subject prefix, true recipient...
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2019 11:34:01 +0100

Please list administrators:
Add some visible sign to these mails to distinguish that them come by
bug-gnuzilla.


El 23/11/19 a les 17:10, Jack Hill ha escrit:
> On Fri, 22 Nov 2019, Chris Marusich wrote:
> 
>> Chris Marusich <cmmarusich <at> gmail.com> writes:
>> I have successfully built IceCat using the Guix preview source (guix
>> build -S icecat) on a foreign GNU/Linux distro.  Things I noticed:
>>
>> - When IceCat 68 is built from source on this foreign distro (without
>>  using any software from Guix to do the build), the built IceCat 68
>>  works.  The "Unknown U2F Error" does not occur.  This means that the
>>  system is configured correctly to allow me to use my security token,
>>  and IceCat is built correctly to use it.
>>
>> - However, on the same foreign distro, when I install IceCat 68 from
>>  Guix, it doesn't work.  I get an "Unknown U2F Error".
>>
>> - Reminder: Firefox also works on this foreign distro.  The "Unknown U2F
>>  Error" does not occur.
> 
> Great work. What dependencies did you have to provide on the non-Guix
> system?
> 
> […]
>> If anyone has any advice about how to determine what code is actually
>> emitting the "Unknown U2F Error", that would really help me narrow
>> down the possibilities quite a bit.
> 
> I don't know if this will be helpful, but as I understand webauthn,
> browsers provide a new JavaScript API for interacting with security
> tokens. I suspect that the error is being generated some code the
> browser calls a JavaScript program it has loaded calls that API. The
> text may not be in the IceCat source, but presented by the JavaScript
> program in response to and error in its API call. I was thinking, but
> haven't had the time, to set up my own webauthn-using app, so I can
> control the JavaScript.
> 
> That's my best guess at least, but it could be wrong, so don't let me
> lead you astray :)
> 
> Best,
> Jack

Message #8 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Jason Self <jself <at> gnu.org>
To: bug-gnuzilla <at> gnu.org
Cc: 38358 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#38358: Subject prefix, true recipient...
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2019 10:05:40 -0800

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

On Sun, 2019-11-24 at 11:34 +0100, Narcis Garcia via GNUzilla bug
reports wrote:
> Please list administrators:
> Add some visible sign to these mails to distinguish that them come
> by bug-gnuzilla.

Please see 
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnuzilla/2019-10/msg00006.html

Mailman does add the List-id header, indicating 

List-id: GNUzilla bug reports <bug-gnuzilla.gnu.org>

Which should make it possible for your mail program to do whatever one
wants with such messages.

[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Message #11 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Narcis Garcia <informatica <at> actiu.net>
To: bug-gnuzilla <at> gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#38358: Subject prefix, true recipient...
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2019 14:28:08 +0100

El 24/11/19 a les 19:05, Jason Self ha escrit:
> On Sun, 2019-11-24 at 11:34 +0100, Narcis Garcia via GNUzilla bug
> reports wrote:
>> Please list administrators:
>> Add some visible sign to these mails to distinguish that them come
>> by bug-gnuzilla.
> 
> Please see 
> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnuzilla/2019-10/msg00006.html
> 
> Mailman does add the List-id header, indicating 
> 
> List-id: GNUzilla bug reports <bug-gnuzilla.gnu.org>
> 
> Which should make it possible for your mail program to do whatever one
> wants with such messages.
> 

I've tried by headers already, and it seems not possible with, for
example, Mozilla Thunderbird (custom header does not work in a filter rule).

Please list administrators:
Add some VISIBLE sign to these mails to distinguish that them come
by bug-gnuzilla.
38358 <at> debbugs.gnu.org as recipient is not a true recipient and it's a
problem to realize WHY am I receiving some concrete letter.

Message #14 received at 38358 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
To: Narcis Garcia <informatica <at> actiu.net>
Cc: 38358 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#38358: Subject prefix, true recipient...
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2019 15:27:56 +0100

Narcis Garcia <informatica <at> actiu.net> writes:

Hi,

>>> Add some visible sign to these mails to distinguish that them come
>>> by bug-gnuzilla.
>> 
>> Please see 
>> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnuzilla/2019-10/msg00006.html
>> 
>> Mailman does add the List-id header, indicating 
>> 
>> List-id: GNUzilla bug reports <bug-gnuzilla.gnu.org>
>> 
>> Which should make it possible for your mail program to do whatever one
>> wants with such messages.
>> 
>
> I've tried by headers already, and it seems not possible with, for
> example, Mozilla Thunderbird (custom header does not work in a filter rule).
>
> Please list administrators:
> Add some VISIBLE sign to these mails to distinguish that them come
> by bug-gnuzilla.
> 38358 <at> debbugs.gnu.org as recipient is not a true recipient and it's a
> problem to realize WHY am I receiving some concrete letter.

I cannot speak for the bug-gnuzilla ML. But your bug reports pass the
debbugs.gnu.org server, which adds the bug number "bug#38358". This
subject prefix shall suffice your request.

Best regards, Michael.

Message #17 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Narcis Garcia <informatica <at> actiu.net>
To: Icecat list <bug-gnuzilla <at> gnu.org>
Subject: Re: bug#38358: Subject prefix, true recipient...
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2019 15:40:26 +0100

El 25/11/19 a les 15:27, Michael Albinus ha escrit:
> Narcis Garcia <informatica <at> actiu.net> writes:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>>>> Add some visible sign to these mails to distinguish that them come
>>>> by bug-gnuzilla.
>>>
>>> Please see 
>>> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnuzilla/2019-10/msg00006.html
>>>
>>> Mailman does add the List-id header, indicating 
>>>
>>> List-id: GNUzilla bug reports <bug-gnuzilla.gnu.org>
>>>
>>> Which should make it possible for your mail program to do whatever one
>>> wants with such messages.
>>>
>>
>> I've tried by headers already, and it seems not possible with, for
>> example, Mozilla Thunderbird (custom header does not work in a filter rule).
>>
>> Please list administrators:
>> Add some VISIBLE sign to these mails to distinguish that them come
>> by bug-gnuzilla.
>> 38358 <at> debbugs.gnu.org as recipient is not a true recipient and it's a
>> problem to realize WHY am I receiving some concrete letter.
> 
> I cannot speak for the bug-gnuzilla ML. But your bug reports pass the
> debbugs.gnu.org server, which adds the bug number "bug#38358". This
> subject prefix shall suffice your request.
> 
> Best regards, Michael.
> 

I was responding to another bug report letter, not created by me.
I just pressed to [Reply list] for a report by Chris Marusich, and
adapted subject title.
Something like a static "gnuzilla" or "icecat" would suffice my request.
I can't create one mail filter for each bug number, and
"debbugs.gnu.org" also cover other scopes.

+ Where is a mail footer to know where and how are published my
replies?! I want to check if my mail address is marked enough in internet.

Message #20 received at 38358 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
To: Narcis Garcia <informatica <at> actiu.net>
Cc: 38358 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#38358: Subject prefix, true recipient...
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2019 16:02:35 +0100

Narcis Garcia <informatica <at> actiu.net> writes:

Hi,

[pls keep me in Cc, I'm not subscribed to the bug-gnuzilla ML]

> I was responding to another bug report letter, not created by me.
> I just pressed to [Reply list] for a report by Chris Marusich, and
> adapted subject title.
> Something like a static "gnuzilla" or "icecat" would suffice my request.
> I can't create one mail filter for each bug number, and
> "debbugs.gnu.org" also cover other scopes.

Well, the subject template for emails is fixed for all bugs going
through debbugs.gnu.org. I fear we cannot change it w/o disturbing all
other projects hosting their bug database on debbugs.gnu.org.

> + Where is a mail footer to know where and how are published my
> replies?! I want to check if my mail address is marked enough in internet.

Hmm, I'm not aware of such a feature on the debbugs server. Maybe your
ML configuration allows such a footer, don't know.

Best regards, Michael.

Message #26 received at 38358 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Mark H Weaver <mhw <at> netris.org>
To: Narcis Garcia <informatica <at> actiu.net>
Cc: 38358 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#38358: Subject prefix, true recipient...
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2019 12:36:38 -0500

Hi Narcis,

Narcis Garcia <informatica <at> actiu.net> wrote:
> El 24/11/19 a les 19:05, Jason Self ha escrit:
>> Mailman does add the List-id header, indicating 
>>
>> List-id: GNUzilla bug reports <bug-gnuzilla.gnu.org>
>>
>> Which should make it possible for your mail program to do whatever one
>> wants with such messages.
>>
>
> I've tried by headers already, and it seems not possible with, for
> example, Mozilla Thunderbird (custom header does not work in a filter rule).

Are you certain of this?  I did a web search found a description of how
to filter on custom headers for mail accounts in Thunderbird.  I tried
it on a friend's instance of Thunderbird.  These are the steps I
followed:

* From the app menu I chose the "Message Filters" menu item, which
  summoned the Message Filters window.

* I clicked the "New..." button, which summoned the Filter Rules window.

* I clicked the popup menu of headers to filter on, and down at the
  bottom of the list I see "Customize...".  Choosing it summons the
  Customize Headers window.  I typed "List-id" in the text box and
  clicked "Add", and then "OK" to dismiss the Customize Headers window.

* "List-id" is now an item within the popup menu of headers to filter
  on.

Does this work for you?

       Thanks,
         Mark

Message #29 received at 38358 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Narcis Garcia <informatica <at> actiu.net>
To: Mark H Weaver <mhw <at> netris.org>
Cc: 38358 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#38358: Subject prefix, true recipient...
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2019 19:30:13 +0100

El 25/11/19 a les 18:36, Mark H Weaver ha escrit:
> Hi Narcis,
> 
> Narcis Garcia <informatica <at> actiu.net> wrote:
>> El 24/11/19 a les 19:05, Jason Self ha escrit:
>>> Mailman does add the List-id header, indicating 
>>>
>>> List-id: GNUzilla bug reports <bug-gnuzilla.gnu.org>
>>>
>>> Which should make it possible for your mail program to do whatever one
>>> wants with such messages.
>>>
>>
>> I've tried by headers already, and it seems not possible with, for
>> example, Mozilla Thunderbird (custom header does not work in a filter rule).
> 
> Are you certain of this?  I did a web search found a description of how
> to filter on custom headers for mail accounts in Thunderbird.  I tried
> it on a friend's instance of Thunderbird.  These are the steps I
> followed:
> 
> * From the app menu I chose the "Message Filters" menu item, which
>   summoned the Message Filters window.
> 
> * I clicked the "New..." button, which summoned the Filter Rules window.
> 
> * I clicked the popup menu of headers to filter on, and down at the
>   bottom of the list I see "Customize...".  Choosing it summons the
>   Customize Headers window.  I typed "List-id" in the text box and
>   clicked "Add", and then "OK" to dismiss the Customize Headers window.
> 
> * "List-id" is now an item within the popup menu of headers to filter
>   on.
> 
> Does this work for you?

No, it doesn't.
Even worse: replies like yours (not arriving me through list mailer
because of CC recipient) are impossible to filter with any distinction
about gnuzilla.

List administrators did become crazy to attend DKIM requirements. If
DMARC and SPF is used, DKIM doesn't enhance mail at all and list mailers
can edit subjects and put footers.

Best regards.

Message #32 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Mark H Weaver <mhw <at> netris.org>
To: Narcis Garcia via GNUzilla bug reports <bug-gnuzilla <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 38358 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#38358: Subject prefix, true recipient...
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2019 14:33:55 -0500

Narcis Garcia via GNUzilla bug reports <bug-gnuzilla <at> gnu.org> wrote:

> El 25/11/19 a les 18:36, Mark H Weaver ha escrit:
>> * I clicked the popup menu of headers to filter on, and down at the
>>   bottom of the list I see "Customize...".  Choosing it summons the
>>   Customize Headers window.  I typed "List-id" in the text box and
>>   clicked "Add", and then "OK" to dismiss the Customize Headers window.
>>
>> * "List-id" is now an item within the popup menu of headers to filter
>>   on.
>>
>> Does this work for you?
>
> No, it doesn't.

Well, that might be a bug in Thunderbird, unless you made a mistake.
Did you include ":" in the custom header name?  It should _not_ be
included.

I'm sorry, but I'm reluctant to change every Subject header on this
mailing list in order to work around a bug in your mail program.  Among
other things, inserting "[bug-gnuzilla] " in addition to "bug#xxxxx: "
would leave very little space in the subject header to describe what's
being discussed.  I often find it difficult to fit the relevant
information within a subject header as it is.

> Even worse: replies like yours (not arriving me through list mailer
> because of CC recipient) are impossible to filter with any distinction
> about gnuzilla.

Well, that's entirely my fault.  The mailing list had rewritten your
From header to be "Narcis Garcia via GNUzilla bug reports
<bug-gnuzilla <at> gnu.org>", and I manually replaced it with your actual
email address.  I won't do that again.

> List administrators did become crazy to attend DKIM requirements. If
> DMARC and SPF is used, DKIM doesn't enhance mail at all and list mailers
> can edit subjects and put footers.

It's been a while since I looked at this, and I've likely forgotten some
important details, but it seems to me that we had little choice in the
matter.

The fact is, some prominent GNU developers use DMARC and DKIM for their
personal domains, and some of them feel strongly about it.  Before the
recent changes to GNU mailing lists, when these developers would send
mail to a GNU mailing list, the changes made to their emails by mailman
would break the DKIM signatures, and many recipients subscribed to the
mailing list would reject the emails as spam.  This had the effect of
causing mail delivery to those recipients to be disabled, and moreover
harmed the reputation of GNU.org as a mail sender.  That's how I
remember it, anyway.

It would be one thing if DMARC or DKIM violated some important ethical
considerations that made them worth launching a campaign to fight
against, but as far as I can see they are reasonable approaches to
reduce spam, and in a way that doesn't require very sophisticated
heuristic filtering.  I think that's a good thing, because it makes it
much more practical to run an independent mail server.

What do you think?

    Regards,
      Mark

Message #38 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Narcis Garcia <informatica <at> actiu.net>
To: bug-gnuzilla <at> gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#38358: Subject prefix, true recipient...
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 08:55:17 +0100

El 25/11/19 a les 20:33, Mark H Weaver ha escrit:
> Narcis Garcia via GNUzilla bug reports <bug-gnuzilla <at> gnu.org> wrote:
> 
>> El 25/11/19 a les 18:36, Mark H Weaver ha escrit:
>>> * I clicked the popup menu of headers to filter on, and down at the
>>>   bottom of the list I see "Customize...".  Choosing it summons the
>>>   Customize Headers window.  I typed "List-id" in the text box and
>>>   clicked "Add", and then "OK" to dismiss the Customize Headers window.
>>>
>>> * "List-id" is now an item within the popup menu of headers to filter
>>>   on.
>>>
>>> Does this work for you?
>>
>> No, it doesn't.
> 
> Well, that might be a bug in Thunderbird, unless you made a mistake.
> Did you include ":" in the custom header name?  It should _not_ be
> included.
> 
> I'm sorry, but I'm reluctant to change every Subject header on this
> mailing list in order to work around a bug in your mail program.  Among
> other things, inserting "[bug-gnuzilla] " in addition to "bug#xxxxx: "
> would leave very little space in the subject header to describe what's
> being discussed.  I often find it difficult to fit the relevant
> information within a subject header as it is.

[gnuz]

>> Even worse: replies like yours (not arriving me through list mailer
>> because of CC recipient) are impossible to filter with any distinction
>> about gnuzilla.
> 
> Well, that's entirely my fault.  The mailing list had rewritten your
> From header to be "Narcis Garcia via GNUzilla bug reports
> <bug-gnuzilla <at> gnu.org>", and I manually replaced it with your actual
> email address.  I won't do that again.
> 
>> List administrators did become crazy to attend DKIM requirements. If
>> DMARC and SPF is used, DKIM doesn't enhance mail at all and list mailers
>> can edit subjects and put footers.
> 
> It's been a while since I looked at this, and I've likely forgotten some
> important details, but it seems to me that we had little choice in the
> matter.
> 
> The fact is, some prominent GNU developers use DMARC and DKIM for their
> personal domains, and some of them feel strongly about it.  Before the
> recent changes to GNU mailing lists, when these developers would send
> mail to a GNU mailing list, the changes made to their emails by mailman
> would break the DKIM signatures, and many recipients subscribed to the
> mailing list would reject the emails as spam.  This had the effect of
> causing mail delivery to those recipients to be disabled, and moreover
> harmed the reputation of GNU.org as a mail sender.  That's how I
> remember it, anyway.
> 
> It would be one thing if DMARC or DKIM violated some important ethical
> considerations that made them worth launching a campaign to fight
> against, but as far as I can see they are reasonable approaches to
> reduce spam, and in a way that doesn't require very sophisticated
> heuristic filtering.  I think that's a good thing, because it makes it
> much more practical to run an independent mail server.
> 
> What do you think?

Practical to run should include Practical to use, and this new policy
around is moving most people to web forums (with labeled subjects,
status indicators, context, footers and help...).

Structured mind is better represented in a structured and signaled
conversation.
Chaotic mind is better deployed in a chat thread.

(sorry for my bad english)

Message #41 received at 38358 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ian Kelling <ian <at> iankelling.org>
To: Narcis Garcia <informatica <at> actiu.net>
Cc: 38358 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Mark H Weaver <mhw <at> netris.org>
Subject: Re: bug#38358: Subject prefix, true recipient...
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2019 13:31:10 -0500

Narcis Garcia via GNUzilla bug reports <bug-gnuzilla <at> gnu.org> writes:

> El 25/11/19 a les 18:36, Mark H Weaver ha escrit:
>> Hi Narcis,
>> 
>> Narcis Garcia <informatica <at> actiu.net> wrote:
>>> El 24/11/19 a les 19:05, Jason Self ha escrit:
>>>> Mailman does add theList-id header, indicating
>>>>
>>>> List-id: GNUzilla bug reports <bug-gnuzilla.gnu.org>
>>>>
>>>> Which should make it possible for your mail program to do whatever one
>>>> wants with such messages.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I've tried by headers already, and it seems not possible with, for
>>> example, Mozilla Thunderbird (custom header does not work in a filter rule).
>> 
>> Are you certain of this?  I did a web search found a description of how
>> to filter on custom headers for mail accounts in Thunderbird.  I tried
>> it on a friend's instance of Thunderbird.  These are the steps I
>> followed:
>> 
>> * From the app menu I chose the "Message Filters" menu item, which
>>   summoned the Message Filters window.
>> 
>> * I clicked the "New..." button, which summoned the Filter Rules window.
>> 
>> * I clicked the popup menu of headers to filter on, and down at the
>>   bottom of the list I see "Customize...".  Choosing it summons the
>>   Customize Headers window.  I typed "List-id" in the text box and
>>   clicked "Add", and then "OK" to dismiss the Customize Headers window.
>> 
>> * "List-id" is now an item within the popup menu of headers to filter
>>   on.
>> 
>> Does this work for you?
>
> No, it doesn't.
> Even worse: replies like yours (not arriving me through list mailer
> because of CC recipient) are impossible to filter with any distinction
> about gnuzilla.

The list actually avoids sending you email when someone does a reply
all. Those are sent directly from the person who did a reply all. There
are a few ways to deal with this. Here is one:

If you log in to the gnu mailman interface at
lists.gnu.org/bug-gnuzilla, and change you person options to turn off
the "nodup" feature, then when someone does a reply-all, the list will
continue to send you an email. Then you will always get a an email with
the list-id header. Then, you can configure your email client to discard
the duplicate that is from @debbugs.gnu.org but does not have any
list-id header.

>
> List administrators did become crazy to attend DKIM requirements. If
> DMARC and SPF is used, DKIM doesn't enhance mail at all and list mailers
> can edit subjects and put footers.
>
> Best regards.

Message #44 received at 38358 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ian Kelling <iank <at> fsf.org>
To: Jason Self <jself <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 38358 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#38358: Subject prefix, true recipient...
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2019 13:51:12 -0500

Jason Self <jself <at> gnu.org> writes:

> On Sun, 2019-11-24 at 11:34 +0100, Narcis Garcia via GNUzilla bug
> reports wrote:
>> Please list administrators:
>> Add some visible sign to these mails to distinguish that them come
>> by bug-gnuzilla.
>
> Please see
> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnuzilla/2019-10/msg00006.html
>
> Mailman does add theList-id header, indicating
>
> List-id: GNUzilla bug reports <bug-gnuzilla.gnu.org>
>
> Which should make it possible for your mail program to do whatever one
> wants with such messages.

The linked change was not supposed to happen for debbugs lists, only
discussion lists, I'm guessing it did because debbugs got turned off for
bug-gnuzilla accidentally for a little while. The reason it wasn't
intended for debbugs lists: The motivation for the change is that
because of dmarc, we need to rewrite some sender addresses, orr, remove
the subject prefix so that dkim will pass. Well, debbugs, puts in a
subject prefix, so there is no need to try removing the subject prefix
if debbugs is just going to put one there anyways. Anyways, I just
looked about 10 other debbugs lists and none of them have mailman [tag]
prefixes, so it seems like other lists are getting along fine without
it. Anyways, it's up the list administartors (i'm just a site
administrator).

-- 
Ian Kelling | Senior Systems Administrator, Free Software Foundation
GPG Key: B125 F60B 7B28 7FF6 A2B7  DF8F 170A F0E2 9542 95DF
https://fsf.org | https://gnu.org

Message #47 received at 38358 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ian Kelling <iank <at> fsf.org>
To: Narcis Garcia <informatica <at> actiu.net>
Cc: 38358 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Mark H Weaver <mhw <at> netris.org>
Subject: Re: bug#38358: Subject prefix, true recipient...
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2019 13:53:51 -0500

Narcis Garcia via GNUzilla bug reports <bug-gnuzilla <at> gnu.org> writes:

> El 25/11/19 a les 18:36, Mark H Weaver ha escrit:
>> Hi Narcis,
>> 
>> Narcis Garcia <informatica <at> actiu.net> wrote:
>>> El 24/11/19 a les 19:05, Jason Self ha escrit:
>>>> Mailman does add theList-id header, indicating
>>>>
>>>> List-id: GNUzilla bug reports <bug-gnuzilla.gnu.org>
>>>>
>>>> Which should make it possible for your mail program to do whatever one
>>>> wants with such messages.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I've tried by headers already, and it seems not possible with, for
>>> example, Mozilla Thunderbird (custom header does not work in a filter rule).
>> 
>> Are you certain of this?  I did a web search found a description of how
>> to filter on custom headers for mail accounts in Thunderbird.  I tried
>> it on a friend's instance of Thunderbird.  These are the steps I
>> followed:
>> 
>> * From the app menu I chose the "Message Filters" menu item, which
>>   summoned the Message Filters window.
>> 
>> * I clicked the "New..." button, which summoned the Filter Rules window.
>> 
>> * I clicked the popup menu of headers to filter on, and down at the
>>   bottom of the list I see "Customize...".  Choosing it summons the
>>   Customize Headers window.  I typed "List-id" in the text box and
>>   clicked "Add", and then "OK" to dismiss the Customize Headers window.
>> 
>> * "List-id" is now an item within the popup menu of headers to filter
>>   on.
>> 
>> Does this work for you?
>
> No, it doesn't.
> Even worse: replies like yours (not arriving me through list mailer
> because of CC recipient) are impossible to filter with any distinction
> about gnuzilla.
>
> List administrators did become crazy to attend DKIM requirements. If
> DMARC and SPF is used, DKIM doesn't enhance mail at all and list mailers
> can edit subjects and put footers.
>

Not breaking dkim is the only way we can forward your message and comply
with a strict dmarc policy, well unless you put the gnu lists mail
server into your spf policy. If you use dmarc without dkim (and dont put
us in your spf policy), I consider your server to be misconfigured.

-- 
Ian Kelling | Senior Systems Administrator, Free Software Foundation
GPG Key: B125 F60B 7B28 7FF6 A2B7  DF8F 170A F0E2 9542 95DF
https://fsf.org | https://gnu.org

Message #50 received at 38358 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Narcis Garcia <informatica <at> actiu.net>
To: Ian Kelling <iank <at> fsf.org>
Cc: 38358 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Mark H Weaver <mhw <at> netris.org>
Subject: Re: bug#38358: Subject prefix, true recipient...
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2019 13:14:38 +0100

El 28/11/19 a les 19:53, Ian Kelling ha escrit:
> 
> Narcis Garcia via GNUzilla bug reports <bug-gnuzilla <at> gnu.org> writes:
> 
>> El 25/11/19 a les 18:36, Mark H Weaver ha escrit:
>>> Hi Narcis,
>>>
>>> Narcis Garcia <informatica <at> actiu.net> wrote:
>>>> El 24/11/19 a les 19:05, Jason Self ha escrit:
>>>>> Mailman does add theList-id header, indicating
>>>>>
>>>>> List-id: GNUzilla bug reports <bug-gnuzilla.gnu.org>
>>>>>
>>>>> Which should make it possible for your mail program to do whatever one
>>>>> wants with such messages.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've tried by headers already, and it seems not possible with, for
>>>> example, Mozilla Thunderbird (custom header does not work in a filter rule).
>>>
>>> Are you certain of this?  I did a web search found a description of how
>>> to filter on custom headers for mail accounts in Thunderbird.  I tried
>>> it on a friend's instance of Thunderbird.  These are the steps I
>>> followed:
>>>
>>> * From the app menu I chose the "Message Filters" menu item, which
>>>   summoned the Message Filters window.
>>>
>>> * I clicked the "New..." button, which summoned the Filter Rules window.
>>>
>>> * I clicked the popup menu of headers to filter on, and down at the
>>>   bottom of the list I see "Customize...".  Choosing it summons the
>>>   Customize Headers window.  I typed "List-id" in the text box and
>>>   clicked "Add", and then "OK" to dismiss the Customize Headers window.
>>>
>>> * "List-id" is now an item within the popup menu of headers to filter
>>>   on.
>>>
>>> Does this work for you?
>>
>> No, it doesn't.
>> Even worse: replies like yours (not arriving me through list mailer
>> because of CC recipient) are impossible to filter with any distinction
>> about gnuzilla.
>>
>> List administrators did become crazy to attend DKIM requirements. If
>> DMARC and SPF is used, DKIM doesn't enhance mail at all and list mailers
>> can edit subjects and put footers.
>>
> 
> Not breaking dkim is the only way we can forward your message and comply
> with a strict dmarc policy, well unless you put the gnu lists mail
> server into your spf policy. If you use dmarc without dkim (and dont put
> us in your spf policy), I consider your server to be misconfigured.
> 

Anyway, many list administrators are getting new policies around DKIM,
that will drive mailing lists to death.
The new problem is about usability.

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