From unknown Fri Aug 15 15:33:57 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#37926 <37926@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#37926 <37926@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: [PATCH] Unify Gnus select methods Reply-To: bug#37926 <37926@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2025 22:33:57 +0000 retitle 37926 [PATCH] Unify Gnus select methods reassign 37926 emacs,gnus submitter 37926 dick.r.chiang@gmail.com severity 37926 wishlist tag 37926 patch wontfix thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Oct 25 16:09:05 2019 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Oct 2019 20:09:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39391 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iO5tM-0000of-EF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 16:09:05 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:42710) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iO5tF-0000oO-SR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 16:08:58 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60735) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iO5tB-0005ch-2o for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 16:08:53 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,FREEMAIL_FROM, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iO5t6-0007JS-P9 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 16:08:48 -0400 Received: from mail-qt1-x836.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::836]:39263) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iO5t6-0007Ir-EK for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 16:08:44 -0400 Received: by mail-qt1-x836.google.com with SMTP id t8so5126168qtc.6 for ; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 13:08:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:user-agent:mime-version :content-disposition:content-description; bh=vDncjRkPvxXS1or7kfrSYgOngyWQtKvNjoN8tR59U6o=; b=oYSFTdHLG6WFhyyWTqIDd/sW6MXCTKPJc5rjAEwX1MX8l0f1j7tc10h1LK5YyDhvAF fOPHiGvDDlNNqT7YO72U5k+dM1uC9C9wPq4n7k6JyReNqiwhRzCeF4HfJVeGCa1zLZAY G1SgvA9NF/5rV8PW755q+LZAEnYmSgzrZSu6gRzpH8badrrpuEvhlrl6Fgfl04Tt88Sg wvXz6QILUSG9+5fu2oF+/hhEesJj2L+FxSiJT1/57Hwp8WzmqP375TwDC87/GObCkYvq 45xGOGm+F9F7PCWuThxxc3MVBqp2AwCILxBtHiRWVg+dxcz7v5z31kYEr/JIR/ziwRNb bGFg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:date:message-id:user-agent :mime-version:content-disposition:content-description; bh=vDncjRkPvxXS1or7kfrSYgOngyWQtKvNjoN8tR59U6o=; b=BFl665AZ6gW0GPvBDID4NkmypAM+wg/cPUNk6m+Z4Rp+ol+k5cicmBaCkrneFXKR03 EtHPL8PIQXJEuMDrKD1DKylry3LpBhngMZarZN7YwkKMKZgrfWCAockkd1OxcGq7J/3r owOdWzsxu5kJb5YrxQ7866XQw4xQkfUVU/b700uUD8YSgwC0qJlRiGOVyNFxucdc2PU3 s5vQ+ZarF6BlhF3TqU5YyMgLEaGx0mrshsORINQ+gYUafdzrmoN2t4rmJjiNTNxlIasS dG+0gJYICHRZ1m1oEs5ZaKtnFF5PxmjMGMh4dJM5PR4qmu3Uo9VV4Eq5PIRv8bGtejyz ftWA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVPILKQVaPzidVhqBrTIxuP51UZIMVcVLHFgHpgVfOR1Ct9HHU8 k98PPIa+k9HUYxydwUeMZXyV++90 X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqw/124gngt7/Bi2UUTiS71pQOoGWa+hSkJiyV+90mPvIukwNJf1udf7UiKWuN1qCF1+eldanA== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5308:: with SMTP id t8mr5144459qtn.55.1572034122915; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 13:08:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (pool-100-33-98-8.nycmny.fios.verizon.net. [100.33.98.8]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o38sm2029651qtc.39.2019.10.25.13.08.41 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 25 Oct 2019 13:08:41 -0700 (PDT) From: dick.r.chiang@gmail.com To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: [PATCH] Unify Gnus select methods Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2019 16:08:40 -0400 Message-ID: <87zhhoh9kn.fsf@dick> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/x-diff Content-Disposition: inline; filename=0001-Unify-gnus-select-methods-into-one-defcustom.patch Content-Description: patch X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::836 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) >From d4654ad8f3412c79fa7d29427e66d2b964d5e191 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: dickmao Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 09:13:38 -0400 Subject: [PATCH] Unify gnus select methods into one defcustom * doc/emacs/misc.texi (Gnus Startup): doc * doc/misc/auth.texi (Multiple GMail accounts with Gnus): doc * doc/misc/gnus-faq.texi (FAQ 3-1): doc * doc/misc/gnus.texi (Starting Up): doc * doc/misc/mh-e.texi (Procmail): doc * etc/gnus/news-server.ast (Setting up the news server name and port number): doc * lisp/gnus/gnus-agent.el (gnus-agentize): use gnus-select-methods instead of consing * lisp/gnus/gnus-int.el (gnus-start-news-server): rationalize an obsolete function * lisp/gnus/gnus-msg.el (gnus-post-method): use gnus-select-methods instead of consing * lisp/gnus/gnus-start.el (gnus-check-new-newsgroups): doc (gnus-ask-server-for-new-groups): use gnus-select-methods instead of consing (gnus-get-unread-articles): use gnus-select-methods instead of consing (gnus-method-rank): primary and secondary labels can be treated the same (gnus-read-active-file): use gnus-select-methods instead of consing (gnus-read-all-descriptions-files): use gnus-select-methods instead of consing * lisp/gnus/gnus.el (gnus-secondary-select-methods, gnus-select-method): obsolesce and modify defcustom ':set' to funnel to gnus-select-methods * lisp/gnus/nnir.el: doc * lisp/gnus/nnmail.el (nnmail-cache-primary-mail-backend): use gnus-select-methods instead of consing * test/lisp/gnus/gnus-test-select-methods.el: test gnus-select-methods --- doc/emacs/misc.texi | 3 +- doc/misc/auth.texi | 10 +- doc/misc/gnus-faq.texi | 18 +-- doc/misc/gnus.texi | 95 ++++++---------- doc/misc/mh-e.texi | 2 +- etc/gnus/news-server.ast | 4 +- lisp/gnus/gnus-agent.el | 2 +- lisp/gnus/gnus-int.el | 125 ++++++++++----------- lisp/gnus/gnus-msg.el | 3 +- lisp/gnus/gnus-start.el | 60 +++++----- lisp/gnus/gnus.el | 28 +++++ lisp/gnus/nnir.el | 2 +- lisp/gnus/nnmail.el | 2 +- test/lisp/gnus/gnus-test-select-methods.el | 108 ++++++++++++++++++ 14 files changed, 277 insertions(+), 185 deletions(-) create mode 100644 test/lisp/gnus/gnus-test-select-methods.el diff --git a/doc/emacs/misc.texi b/doc/emacs/misc.texi index 63b65e779c..2617297591 100644 --- a/doc/emacs/misc.texi +++ b/doc/emacs/misc.texi @@ -97,8 +97,7 @@ Gnus Startup If your system does not have a default news server, or if you wish to use Gnus for reading email, then before invoking @kbd{M-x gnus} you need to tell Gnus where to get news and/or mail. To do this, -customize the variables @code{gnus-select-method} and/or -@code{gnus-secondary-select-methods}. +customize the variable @code{gnus-select-methods}. @iftex See the Gnus manual for details. @end iftex diff --git a/doc/misc/auth.texi b/doc/misc/auth.texi index 93a301dcb1..dd6d25ba96 100644 --- a/doc/misc/auth.texi +++ b/doc/misc/auth.texi @@ -258,14 +258,14 @@ Multiple GMail accounts with Gnus @chapter Multiple GMail accounts with Gnus For multiple GMail accounts with Gnus, you have to make two nnimap -entries in your @code{gnus-secondary-select-methods} with distinct +entries in your @code{gnus-select-methods} with distinct names: @example -(setq gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnimap "gmail" - (nnimap-address "imap.gmail.com")) - (nnimap "gmail2" - (nnimap-address "imap.gmail.com")))) +(setq gnus-select-methods '((nnimap "gmail" + (nnimap-address "imap.gmail.com")) + (nnimap "gmail2" + (nnimap-address "imap.gmail.com")))) @end example Your netrc entries will then be: diff --git a/doc/misc/gnus-faq.texi b/doc/misc/gnus-faq.texi index b0dc9c3ba3..0d8f37b0c5 100644 --- a/doc/misc/gnus-faq.texi +++ b/doc/misc/gnus-faq.texi @@ -363,7 +363,7 @@ FAQ 3-1 first start, put those lines in @file{~/.gnus.el}: @example -(setq gnus-select-method '(nntp "news.yourprovider.net")) +(setq gnus-select-methods '((nntp "news.yourprovider.net"))) (setq user-mail-address "you@@yourprovider.net") (setq user-full-name "Your Name") @end example @@ -477,13 +477,13 @@ FAQ 3-6 @subsubheading Answer Of course. You can specify more sources for articles in the -variable gnus-secondary-select-methods. Add something like +variable gnus-select-methods. Add something like this in @file{~/.gnus.el}: @example -(add-to-list 'gnus-secondary-select-methods +(add-to-list 'gnus-select-methods '(nntp "news.yourSecondProvider.net")) -(add-to-list 'gnus-secondary-select-methods +(add-to-list 'gnus-select-methods '(nntp "news.yourThirdProvider.net")) @end example @noindent @@ -499,7 +499,7 @@ FAQ 3-7 nnspool, so you want this: @example -(add-to-list 'gnus-secondary-select-methods '(nnspool "")) +(add-to-list 'gnus-select-methods '(nnspool "")) @end example @noindent @@ -514,7 +514,7 @@ FAQ 3-7 want something different, change the line above to something like this: @example -(add-to-list 'gnus-secondary-select-methods +(add-to-list 'gnus-select-methods '(nnspool "" (nnspool-directory "/usr/local/myspoolddir"))) @end example @@ -552,14 +552,14 @@ FAQ 3-8 choice for you. To use nnml add the following to @file{~/.gnus.el}: @example -(add-to-list 'gnus-secondary-select-methods '(nnml "")) +(add-to-list 'gnus-select-methods '(nnml "")) @end example @noindent As you might have guessed, if you want nnfolder, it's @example -(add-to-list 'gnus-secondary-select-methods '(nnfolder "")) +(add-to-list 'gnus-select-methods '(nnfolder "")) @end example @noindent @@ -656,7 +656,7 @@ FAQ 3-9 about the server there. @example -(add-to-list 'gnus-secondary-select-methods +(add-to-list 'gnus-select-methods '(nnimap "Give the baby a name" (nnimap-address "imap.yourProvider.net") (nnimap-port 143) diff --git a/doc/misc/gnus.texi b/doc/misc/gnus.texi index 8ab1cf9f68..46560de977 100644 --- a/doc/misc/gnus.texi +++ b/doc/misc/gnus.texi @@ -957,7 +957,7 @@ Starting Up If your system administrator has set things up properly, starting Gnus and reading news is extremely easy---you just type @kbd{M-x gnus} in your Emacs. If not, you should customize the variable -@code{gnus-select-method} as described in @ref{Finding the News}. For a +@code{gnus-select-methods} as described in @ref{Finding the News}. For a minimal setup for posting should also customize the variables @code{user-full-name} and @code{user-mail-address}. @@ -998,25 +998,23 @@ Finding the News do many other neat things. @xref{Server Buffer}. @xref{Foreign Groups}. @xref{Agent Basics}. -@vindex gnus-select-method +@vindex gnus-select-methods @c @head -The @code{gnus-select-method} variable says where Gnus should look for -news. This variable should be a list where the first element says -@dfn{how} and the second element says @dfn{where}. This method is your -native method. All groups not fetched with this method are -secondary or foreign groups. +The @code{gnus-select-methods} should be a list of @xref{Select Methods}. +A select method is a list where the first element says @dfn{how} and the +second element says @dfn{where}. For instance, if the @samp{news.somewhere.edu} @acronym{NNTP} server is where you want to get your daily dosage of news from, you'd say: @lisp -(setq gnus-select-method '(nntp "news.somewhere.edu")) +(setq gnus-select-methods '((nntp "news.somewhere.edu"))) @end lisp If you want to read directly from the local spool, say: @lisp -(setq gnus-select-method '(nnspool "")) +(setq gnus-select-methods '((nnspool ""))) @end lisp If you can use a local spool, you probably should, as it will almost @@ -1043,25 +1041,6 @@ Finding the News to any of the groups you want to. This also makes @file{.newsrc} maintenance much tidier. @xref{Foreign Groups}. -@vindex gnus-secondary-select-methods -@c @head -A slightly different approach to foreign groups is to set the -@code{gnus-secondary-select-methods} variable. The select methods -listed in this variable are in many ways just as native as the -@code{gnus-select-method} server. They will also be queried for active -files during startup (if that's required), and new newsgroups that -appear on these servers will be subscribed (or not) just as native -groups are. - -For instance, if you use the @code{nnmbox} back end to read your mail, -you would typically set this variable to - -@lisp -(setq gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnmbox ""))) -@end lisp - - - @node The Server is Down @section The Server is Down @cindex server errors @@ -1335,14 +1314,14 @@ Changing Servers very flaky and you want to use another. Changing the server is pretty easy, right? You just change -@code{gnus-select-method} to point to the new server? +@code{gnus-select-methods} to point to the new server? @emph{Wrong!} Article numbers are not (in any way) kept synchronized between different @acronym{NNTP} servers, and the only way Gnus keeps track of what articles you have read is by keeping track of article numbers. So when you -change @code{gnus-select-method}, your @file{.newsrc} file becomes +change @code{gnus-select-methods}, your @file{.newsrc} file becomes worthless. @findex gnus-group-clear-data-on-native-groups @@ -2516,8 +2495,8 @@ Foreign Groups @cindex foreign groups If you recall how to subscribe to servers (@pxref{Finding the News}) -you will remember that @code{gnus-secondary-select-methods} and -@code{gnus-select-method} let you write a definition in Emacs Lisp of +you will remember that @code{gnus-select-methods} +lets you write a definition in Emacs Lisp of what servers you want to see when you start up. The alternate approach is to use foreign servers and groups. ``Foreign'' here means they are not coming from the select methods. All foreign server @@ -10756,7 +10735,7 @@ Mail Group Commands @code{Newsgroups} header in them, but not always. This command (@code{gnus-summary-article-posted-p}) will try to fetch the current article from your news server (or rather, from -@code{gnus-refer-article-method} or @code{gnus-select-method}) and will +@code{gnus-refer-article-method} or @code{gnus-select-methods}) and will report back whether it found the article or not. Even if it says that it didn't find the article, it may have been posted anyway---mail propagation is much faster than news propagation, and the news copy may @@ -13417,14 +13396,14 @@ Example Methods an indirect connection: @lisp -(setq gnus-select-method - '(nntp "indirect" +(setq gnus-select-methods + '((nntp "indirect" (nntp-address "news.server.example") (nntp-via-user-name "intermediate_user_name") (nntp-via-address "intermediate.host.example") (nntp-via-rlogin-command "ssh") (nntp-via-rlogin-command-switches ("-C")) - (nntp-open-connection-function nntp-open-via-rlogin-and-netcat))) + (nntp-open-connection-function nntp-open-via-rlogin-and-netcat)))) @end lisp This means that you have to have set up @code{ssh-agent} correctly to @@ -13510,7 +13489,7 @@ Servers and Methods @subsection Servers and Methods Wherever you would normally use a select method -(e.g., @code{gnus-secondary-select-method}, in the group select method, +(e.g., @code{gnus-select-methods}, in the group select method, when browsing a foreign server) you can use a virtual server name instead. This could potentially save lots of typing. And it's nice all over. @@ -13796,11 +13775,11 @@ NNTP value, and Gnus never uses article numbers. For example: @lisp -(setq gnus-select-method - '(nntp "newszilla" - (nntp-address "newszilla.example.com") - (nntp-xref-number-is-evil t) - @dots{})) +(setq gnus-select-methods + '((nntp "newszilla" + (nntp-address "newszilla.example.com") + (nntp-xref-number-is-evil t) + @dots{}))) @end lisp The default value of this server variable is @code{nil}. @@ -14244,8 +14223,8 @@ Connecting to an IMAP Server something like: @example -(setq gnus-select-method - '(nnimap "imap.gmail.com")) +(setq gnus-select-methods + '((nnimap "imap.gmail.com"))) @end example You'll be prompted for a user name and password. If you grow tired of @@ -14516,14 +14495,14 @@ Getting Started Reading Mail @subsection Getting Started Reading Mail It's quite easy to use Gnus to read your new mail. You just plonk the -mail back end of your choice into @code{gnus-secondary-select-methods}, +mail back end of your choice into @code{gnus-select-methods}, and things will happen automatically. For instance, if you want to use @code{nnml} (which is a ``one file per mail'' back end), you could put the following in your @file{~/.gnus.el} file: @lisp -(setq gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnml ""))) +(setq gnus-select-methods '((nnml ""))) @end lisp Now, the next time you start Gnus, this back end will be queried for new @@ -17715,15 +17694,10 @@ The Empty Backend @cindex nnnil @code{nnnil} is a backend that can be used as a placeholder if you -have to specify a backend somewhere, but don't really want to. The -classical example is if you don't want to have a primary select -methods, but want to only use secondary ones: +have to specify a backend somewhere, but don't really want to: @lisp -(setq gnus-select-method '(nnnil "")) -(setq gnus-secondary-select-methods - '((nnimap "foo") - (nnml ""))) +(setq gnus-select-methods '((nnnil ""))) @end lisp @@ -18011,7 +17985,7 @@ Running NNDiary Finally, you may add a permanent @code{nndiary} virtual server (something like @code{(nndiary "diary")} should do) to your -@code{gnus-secondary-select-methods}. +@code{gnus-select-methods}. Hopefully, almost everything (see the TODO section in @file{nndiary.el}) will work as expected when you restart Gnus: in @@ -19354,14 +19328,14 @@ Example Setup @lisp ;; @r{Define how Gnus is to fetch news. We do this over @acronym{NNTP}} ;; @r{from your ISP's server.} -(setq gnus-select-method '(nntp "news.your-isp.com")) +(setq gnus-select-methods '((nntp "news.your-isp.com"))) ;; @r{Define how Gnus is to read your mail. We read mail from} ;; @r{your ISP's @acronym{POP} server.} (setq mail-sources '((pop :server "pop.your-isp.com"))) ;; @r{Say how Gnus is to store the mail. We use nnml groups.} -(setq gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnml ""))) +(push '(nnml "") gnus-select-methods) ;; @r{Make Gnus into an offline newsreader.} ;; (gnus-agentize) ; @r{The obsolete setting.} @@ -21250,7 +21224,7 @@ Associating Engines named @code{home} you can use @lisp -(setq gnus-secondary-select-methods +(setq gnus-select-methods '((nnml "home" (nnimap-address "localhost") (nnir-search-engine namazu)))) @@ -28482,11 +28456,8 @@ Oort Gnus @item @code{gnus-agent} -The Gnus Agent has seen a major updated and is now enabled by default, -and all nntp and nnimap servers from @code{gnus-select-method} and -@code{gnus-secondary-select-method} are agentized by default. Earlier -only the server in @code{gnus-select-method} was agentized by the -default, and the agent was disabled by default. When the agent is +The Gnus Agent now agentizes all nnimap and nntp entries in +@code{gnus-select-methods} by default. When the agent is enabled, headers are now also retrieved from the Agent cache instead of the back ends when possible. Earlier this only happened in the unplugged state. You can enroll or remove servers with @kbd{J a} and diff --git a/doc/misc/mh-e.texi b/doc/misc/mh-e.texi index 9d249fb0ec..ef95fe451c 100644 --- a/doc/misc/mh-e.texi +++ b/doc/misc/mh-e.texi @@ -8635,7 +8635,7 @@ Procmail @key{RET} nnml @key{RET}}. @vtable @code -@item gnus-secondary-select-methods +@item gnus-select-methods Select the @samp{nnml} value. This select method uses directories for folders and individual files for messages, just like MH@. You do not have to set an address. diff --git a/etc/gnus/news-server.ast b/etc/gnus/news-server.ast index df0bab4519..8da881ccbe 100644 --- a/etc/gnus/news-server.ast +++ b/etc/gnus/news-server.ast @@ -5,7 +5,7 @@ @variable server :string (or (gnus-getenv-nntpserver) "your-server-here") @variable port :number 119 @validate (or (assistant-validate-connect-to-server server port) (y-or-n-p "Do you want to use the server anyway, although you can't confirm it's valid?")) -@result gnus-select-method (list 'nntp server (list 'nntp-server port)) +@result gnus-select-methods (list (list 'nntp server (list 'nntp-server port))) @text Usenet news is usually read from your Internet service provider's news server. If you don't know the name of this server, contact your ISP. @@ -20,7 +20,7 @@ Port number: @variable{port} @node User name and password @type interstitial -@next +@next (if (assistant-password-required-p) "Enter user name and password" "Want user name and password?") diff --git a/lisp/gnus/gnus-agent.el b/lisp/gnus/gnus-agent.el index 1f25255278..7ed11d5a7b 100644 --- a/lisp/gnus/gnus-agent.el +++ b/lisp/gnus/gnus-agent.el @@ -639,7 +639,7 @@ gnus-agentize (push (gnus-method-to-server method) gnus-agent-covered-methods) (setq gnus-agent-method-p-cache nil)))) - (cons gnus-select-method gnus-secondary-select-methods)) + gnus-select-methods) (gnus-agent-write-servers))) (defun gnus-agent-queue-setup (&optional group-name) diff --git a/lisp/gnus/gnus-int.el b/lisp/gnus/gnus-int.el index 0abbfe6720..90d30ed483 100644 --- a/lisp/gnus/gnus-int.el +++ b/lisp/gnus/gnus-int.el @@ -103,73 +103,66 @@ gnus-status-message (defun gnus-start-news-server (&optional confirm) "Open a method for getting news. If CONFIRM is non-nil, the user will be asked for an NNTP server." - (let (how) - (if gnus-current-select-method - ;; Stream is already opened. - nil - ;; Open NNTP server. - (when confirm - ;; Read server name with completion. - (setq gnus-nntp-server - (gnus-completing-read "NNTP server" - (cons gnus-nntp-server - (if (boundp 'gnus-secondary-servers) - gnus-secondary-servers)) - nil gnus-nntp-server))) - - (when (and gnus-nntp-server - (stringp gnus-nntp-server) - (not (string= gnus-nntp-server ""))) - (setq gnus-select-method - (cond ((or (string= gnus-nntp-server "") - (string= gnus-nntp-server "::")) - (list 'nnspool (system-name))) - ((string-match "^:" gnus-nntp-server) - (list 'nnmh gnus-nntp-server - (list 'nnmh-directory - (file-name-as-directory - (expand-file-name - (substring gnus-nntp-server 1) "~/"))) - (list 'nnmh-get-new-mail nil))) - (t - (list 'nntp gnus-nntp-server))))) - - (setq how (car gnus-select-method)) - (cond - ((eq how 'nnspool) - (require 'nnspool) - (gnus-message 5 "Looking up local news spool...")) - ((eq how 'nnmh) - (require 'nnmh) - (gnus-message 5 "Looking up mh spool...")) - (t - (require 'nntp))) - (setq gnus-current-select-method gnus-select-method) - (gnus-run-hooks 'gnus-open-server-hook) + (unless gnus-current-select-method + (when confirm + ;; Read server name with completion. + (setq gnus-nntp-server + (gnus-completing-read "NNTP server" + (cons gnus-nntp-server + (if (boundp 'gnus-secondary-servers) + gnus-secondary-servers)) + nil gnus-nntp-server))) + (when (and (stringp gnus-nntp-server) + (not (zerop (length gnus-nntp-server)))) + ;; this will also assign the obsolete variable `gnus-select-method' + (custom-set-variables + `(gnus-select-methods + (quote (,(cond ((string= gnus-nntp-server "::") + (list 'nnspool (system-name))) + ((string-match "^:" gnus-nntp-server) + (list 'nnmh gnus-nntp-server + (list 'nnmh-directory + (file-name-as-directory + (expand-file-name + (substring gnus-nntp-server 1) "~/"))) + (list 'nnmh-get-new-mail nil))) + (t + (list 'nntp gnus-nntp-server)))))))) + (setq gnus-current-select-method gnus-select-method) + (cl-case (car gnus-select-method) + ('nnspool + (require 'nnspool) + (gnus-message 5 "Looking up local news spool...")) + ('nnmh + (require 'nnmh) + (gnus-message 5 "Looking up mh spool...")) + (t + (require 'nntp))) + (gnus-run-hooks 'gnus-open-server-hook) + + ;; Partially validate agent covered methods now that the + ;; gnus-select-method is known. + + (if gnus-agent + ;; NOTE: This is here for one purpose only. By validating + ;; the current select method, it converts the old 5.10.3, + ;; and earlier, format to the current format. That enables + ;; the agent code within gnus-open-server to function + ;; correctly. + (gnus-agent-read-servers-validate-native gnus-select-method)) - ;; Partially validate agent covered methods now that the - ;; gnus-select-method is known. - - (if gnus-agent - ;; NOTE: This is here for one purpose only. By validating - ;; the current select method, it converts the old 5.10.3, - ;; and earlier, format to the current format. That enables - ;; the agent code within gnus-open-server to function - ;; correctly. - (gnus-agent-read-servers-validate-native gnus-select-method)) - - (or - ;; gnus-open-server-hook might have opened it - (gnus-server-opened gnus-select-method) - (gnus-open-server gnus-select-method) - gnus-batch-mode - (gnus-y-or-n-p - (format-message - "%s (%s) open error: `%s'. Continue? " - (car gnus-select-method) (cadr gnus-select-method) - (gnus-status-message gnus-select-method))) - (gnus-error 1 "Couldn't open server on %s" - (nth 1 gnus-select-method)))))) + (or + ;; gnus-open-server-hook might have opened it + (gnus-server-opened gnus-select-method) + (gnus-open-server gnus-select-method) + gnus-batch-mode + (gnus-y-or-n-p + (format-message + "%s (%s) open error: `%s'. Continue? " + (car gnus-select-method) (cadr gnus-select-method) + (gnus-status-message gnus-select-method))) + (gnus-error 1 "Couldn't open server on %s" + (nth 1 gnus-select-method))))) (defun gnus-check-group (group) "Try to make sure that the server where GROUP exists is alive." diff --git a/lisp/gnus/gnus-msg.el b/lisp/gnus/gnus-msg.el index 10793455a5..ee5780e3f2 100644 --- a/lisp/gnus/gnus-msg.el +++ b/lisp/gnus/gnus-msg.el @@ -1054,10 +1054,9 @@ gnus-post-method (if (listp (car gnus-post-method)) gnus-post-method (list gnus-post-method))) - gnus-secondary-select-methods + gnus-select-methods (mapcar 'cdr gnus-server-alist) (mapcar 'car gnus-opened-servers) - (list gnus-select-method) (list group-method))) method-alist post-methods method) ;; Weed out all mail methods. diff --git a/lisp/gnus/gnus-start.el b/lisp/gnus/gnus-start.el index e142c438ee..04a6f33149 100644 --- a/lisp/gnus/gnus-start.el +++ b/lisp/gnus/gnus-start.el @@ -108,7 +108,7 @@ gnus-check-new-newsgroups or killed. When any of the following are true, `gnus-find-new-newsgroups' will instead -ask the servers (primary, secondary, and archive servers) to list new +ask the servers (including the archive server) to list new groups since the last time it checked: 1. This variable is `ask-server'. 2. This variable is a list of select methods (see below). @@ -120,8 +120,7 @@ gnus-check-new-newsgroups longer necessary, so you could safely set `gnus-save-killed-list' to nil. This variable can be a list of select methods which Gnus will query with -the `ask-server' method in addition to the primary, secondary, and archive -servers. +the `ask-server' method in addition to the archive server. E.g.: (setq gnus-check-new-newsgroups @@ -1165,21 +1164,18 @@ gnus-matches-options-n (defun gnus-ask-server-for-new-groups () (let* ((new-date (message-make-date)) (date (or gnus-newsrc-last-checked-date new-date)) - (methods (cons gnus-select-method - (nconc - (when (gnus-archive-server-wanted-p) - (list "archive")) - (append - (and (consp gnus-check-new-newsgroups) - gnus-check-new-newsgroups) - gnus-secondary-select-methods)))) + (methods (nconc + (when (gnus-archive-server-wanted-p) + (list "archive")) + (append + (and (consp gnus-check-new-newsgroups) + gnus-check-new-newsgroups) + gnus-select-methods))) (groups 0) group new-newsgroups got-new method hashtb gnus-override-subscribe-method) (unless gnus-killed-hashtb (gnus-make-hashtable-from-killed)) - ;; Go through both primary and secondary select methods and - ;; request new newsgroups. (while (setq method (gnus-server-get-method nil (pop methods))) (setq new-newsgroups nil gnus-override-subscribe-method method) @@ -1653,8 +1649,8 @@ gnus-get-unread-articles (when (setq entry (gnus-group-entry group)) (setcar entry t))))) - ;; Sort the methods based so that the primary and secondary - ;; methods come first. This is done for legacy reasons to try to + ;; Sort the methods based on their ordering in `gnus-select-methods'. + ;; This is done for legacy reasons to try to ;; ensure that side-effect behavior doesn't change from previous ;; Gnus versions. (setq type-cache @@ -1677,11 +1673,9 @@ gnus-get-unread-articles (setcar elem method)) (push (list method 'ok) methods))))) - ;; If we have primary/secondary select methods, but no groups from - ;; them, we still want to issue a retrieval request from them. + ;; For methods with no groups to update, we still request-list if supported. (unless dont-connect - (dolist (method (cons gnus-select-method - gnus-secondary-select-methods)) + (dolist (method gnus-select-methods) (when (and (not (assoc method type-cache)) (gnus-check-backend-function 'request-list (car method))) (with-current-buffer nntp-server-buffer @@ -1755,14 +1749,13 @@ gnus-method-rank ;; Get info for virtual groups last. ((eq (car method) 'nnvirtual) 200) - ((eq type 'primary) - 1) - ;; Compute the rank of the secondary methods based on where they - ;; are in the secondary select list. - ((eq type 'secondary) - (let ((i 2)) + ;; Compute the rank of the method based on where they + ;; are in the select list. + ((or (eq type 'primary) + (eq type 'secondary)) + (let ((i 1)) (cl-block nil - (cl-dolist (smethod gnus-secondary-select-methods) + (cl-dolist (smethod gnus-select-methods) (when (equal method smethod) (cl-return i)) (cl-incf i)) @@ -2004,10 +1997,12 @@ gnus-read-active-file (if (and (not not-native) (gnus-check-server gnus-select-method)) ;; The native server is available. - (cons gnus-select-method gnus-secondary-select-methods) + gnus-select-methods ;; The native server is down, so we just do the ;; secondary ones. - gnus-secondary-select-methods) + (cl-remove-if + (lambda (method) (gnus-method-equal method gnus-select-method)) + gnus-select-methods)) ;; Also read from the archive server. (when (gnus-archive-server-wanted-p) (list "archive"))))) @@ -3067,11 +3062,10 @@ gnus-master-read-slave-newsrc ;;; (defun gnus-read-all-descriptions-files () - (let ((methods (cons gnus-select-method - (nconc - (when (gnus-archive-server-wanted-p) - (list "archive")) - gnus-secondary-select-methods)))) + (let ((methods (nconc + (when (gnus-archive-server-wanted-p) + (list "archive")) + gnus-select-methods))) (while methods (gnus-read-descriptions-file (car methods)) (setq methods (cdr methods))) diff --git a/lisp/gnus/gnus.el b/lisp/gnus/gnus.el index 0673ac15f6..490ba51783 100644 --- a/lisp/gnus/gnus.el +++ b/lisp/gnus/gnus.el @@ -1032,6 +1032,8 @@ gnus-getenv-nntpserver ;;;###autoload(when (fboundp 'custom-autoload) ;;;###autoload (custom-autoload 'gnus-select-method "gnus")) +(defvar gnus-secondary-select-methods) +(defvar gnus-select-methods) (defcustom gnus-select-method (list 'nntp (or (gnus-getenv-nntpserver) (when (and gnus-default-nntp-server @@ -1060,7 +1062,11 @@ gnus-select-method :group 'gnus-server :group 'gnus-start :initialize 'custom-initialize-default + :set (lambda (symbol value) + (set-default symbol value) + (setq gnus-select-methods (cons value gnus-secondary-select-methods))) :type 'gnus-select-method) +(make-obsolete-variable 'gnus-select-method 'gnus-select-methods "27.1" 'set) (defcustom gnus-message-archive-method "archive" "Method used for archiving messages you've sent. @@ -1136,6 +1142,28 @@ gnus-secondary-select-methods \(setq gnus-secondary-select-methods \\='((nnml \"\")))" :group 'gnus-server + :set (lambda (symbol value) + (set-default symbol value) + (setq gnus-select-methods (cons gnus-select-method value))) + :type '(repeat gnus-select-method)) +(make-obsolete-variable 'gnus-secondary-select-methods 'gnus-select-methods "27.1" 'set) + +(defcustom gnus-select-methods (cons gnus-select-method gnus-secondary-select-methods) + "((BACKEND1 ADDRESS1) (BACKEND2 ADDRESS2) ... ) where BACKEND is a symbol, e.g., +nntp, and ADDRESS is a string, e.g., \"flab.flab.edu\". + +For example, this specifies a local spool, + +\(setq gnus-select-methods `(,(list 'nnspool (system-name)))) +" + :group 'gnus-server + :initialize 'custom-initialize-default + :set (lambda (symbol value) + (unless (listp (car value)) + (setq value (list value))) + (set-default symbol value) + (setq gnus-select-method (car value)) + (setq gnus-secondary-select-methods (cdr value))) :type '(repeat gnus-select-method)) (defcustom gnus-local-domain nil diff --git a/lisp/gnus/nnir.el b/lisp/gnus/nnir.el index 7cb2d1615a..adfb3d6f28 100644 --- a/lisp/gnus/nnir.el +++ b/lisp/gnus/nnir.el @@ -44,7 +44,7 @@ ;; The Lisp setup may involve setting a few variables and setting up the ;; search engine. You can define the variables in the server definition ;; like this : -;; (setq gnus-secondary-select-methods '( +;; (setq gnus-select-methods '( ;; (nnimap "" (nnimap-address "localhost") ;; (nnir-search-engine namazu) ;; ))) diff --git a/lisp/gnus/nnmail.el b/lisp/gnus/nnmail.el index fc9713e956..4aafa11e4e 100644 --- a/lisp/gnus/nnmail.el +++ b/lisp/gnus/nnmail.el @@ -1630,7 +1630,7 @@ nnmail-cache-insert (insert id "\n")))))) (defun nnmail-cache-primary-mail-backend () - (let ((be-list (cons gnus-select-method gnus-secondary-select-methods)) + (let ((be-list gnus-select-methods) (be nil) (res nil) (get-new-mail nil)) diff --git a/test/lisp/gnus/gnus-test-select-methods.el b/test/lisp/gnus/gnus-test-select-methods.el new file mode 100644 index 0000000000..f41e3e7714 --- /dev/null +++ b/test/lisp/gnus/gnus-test-select-methods.el @@ -0,0 +1,108 @@ +;;; gnus-test-select-methods.el -*- lexical-binding:t -*- + +;; Copyright (C) 2019 Free Software Foundation, Inc. + +;; This file is part of GNU Emacs. + +;; GNU Emacs is free software: you can redistribute it and/or modify +;; it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by +;; the Free Software Foundation, either version 3 of the License, or +;; (at your option) any later version. + +;; GNU Emacs is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, +;; but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of +;; MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the +;; GNU General Public License for more details. + +;; You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License +;; along with GNU Emacs. If not, see . + +;;; Code: + +(require 'ert) +(require 'gnus) +(require 'gnus-int) +(require 'gnus-start) + +(eval-when-compile + (put 'gnus-secondary-select-methods 'byte-obsolete-variable nil) + (put 'gnus-select-method 'byte-obsolete-variable nil) + (put 'gnus-nntp-server 'byte-obsolete-variable nil)) + +(ert-deftest gnus-test-select-methods-basic () + "Customizing `gnus-select-method' and `gnus-secondary-select-methods' +also modifies `gnus-select-methods'." + (let (gnus-select-method + gnus-secondary-select-methods + gnus-select-methods + (test-methods '((nnnil) (nntp "flab.flab.edu")))) + (custom-set-variables `(gnus-select-method (quote ,(car test-methods))) + `(gnus-secondary-select-methods (quote ,(cdr test-methods)))) + (should (cl-every #'identity + (cl-mapcar #'gnus-methods-equal-p gnus-select-methods test-methods))) + (should (gnus-method-equal gnus-select-method (car gnus-select-methods))) + (should (cl-every #'identity + (cl-mapcar #'gnus-methods-equal-p gnus-secondary-select-methods + (cdr gnus-select-methods)))))) + +(ert-deftest gnus-test-select-methods-override () + "Customizing `gnus-select-methods' overrides earlier customizations +of `gnus-select-method' and `gnus-secondary-select-methods'." + (let (gnus-select-method + gnus-secondary-select-methods + gnus-select-methods + (test-methods '((nnnil) (nntp "flab.flab.edu"))) + (override-methods '((nntp "override") (nnnil)))) + (custom-set-variables `(gnus-select-method (quote ,(car test-methods))) + `(gnus-secondary-select-methods (quote ,(cdr test-methods))) + `(gnus-select-methods (quote ,override-methods))) + (should (cl-every #'identity + (cl-mapcar #'gnus-methods-equal-p gnus-select-methods override-methods))) + (should (gnus-method-equal gnus-select-method (car gnus-select-methods))) + (should (cl-every #'identity + (cl-mapcar #'gnus-methods-equal-p gnus-secondary-select-methods + (cdr gnus-select-methods)))))) + +(ert-deftest gnus-test-gnus-start-news-server () + "Test an archaic method of initiating gnus." + (let (gnus-current-select-method + (gnus-nntp-server "::")) + (cl-letf (((symbol-function 'gnus-y-or-n-p) #'ignore)) + (gnus-start-news-server) + (should (gnus-method-equal gnus-select-method `(nnspool ,(system-name))))))) + +(ert-deftest gnus-test-gnus-method-rank () + "Ensure unification does right by `gnus-method-rank'." + (let (gnus-select-method + gnus-secondary-select-methods + gnus-select-methods + type-cache + (test-methods '((nnnil) (nntp "flab.flab.edu"))) + (sort-f (lambda (c1 c2) + (< (gnus-method-rank (cadr c1) (car c1)) + (gnus-method-rank (cadr c2) (car c2)))))) + (custom-set-variables `(gnus-select-methods (quote ,test-methods))) + (dolist (method test-methods) + (push `(,method + ,(cond + ((gnus-secondary-method-p method) 'secondary) + ((gnus-method-equal gnus-select-method method) 'primary) + (t 'foreign))) + type-cache)) + (equal '(nnnil nntp) + (mapcar (lambda (x) (car (car x))) (sort type-cache sort-f))))) + +(ert-deftest gnus-test-gnus-read-active-file () + "Ensure unification does right by `gnus-read-active-file'." + (let (gnus-select-method + gnus-secondary-select-methods + gnus-select-methods + (test-methods '((nnnil) (nntp "flab.flab.edu")))) + (custom-set-variables `(gnus-select-methods (quote ,test-methods))) + (should (equal + (cl-remove-if (lambda (method) + (gnus-method-equal method gnus-select-method)) + gnus-select-methods) + gnus-secondary-select-methods)))) + +;;; gnus-test-select-methods.el ends here -- 2.23.0 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 26 01:16:35 2019 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Oct 2019 05:16:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39624 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iOERH-0000B5-4l for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Oct 2019 01:16:35 -0400 Received: from mail-qt1-f170.google.com ([209.85.160.170]:39475) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iOERF-0000Aq-8W for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Oct 2019 01:16:33 -0400 Received: by mail-qt1-f170.google.com with SMTP id t8so6605162qtc.6 for ; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 22:16:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=message-id:date:to:from:subject; bh=y/jn+q4vq4CvE4jMejBJraV+MA0MM3pzKgxuO9L2lR4=; b=tJjL/41NjulJYVK+XqW3oeNu7KoXVy7oRl6nEs4q0Muhrxte2IzbFZ5qI+yqRDwJet +uEX3kFY21KCCtQK2lzafEBP1bP/np/gK/7IXn5ttSY+9df/sReXzeDGjzOd7TWOMJwz DrIigmYM5Mu2/y82xpJeREBlk9cvxycchDQtftd1sAoZ6mv5Q1FvSNI1g5XnL18imzjI fjsq/Y07CBmn628vc2Ap4wAmsdDXebpg9JXgYcTpSuaz/RaPi9FYzuGuGpebPqqmMvvZ qwWYWhR6ptBcz7jXN7Lk45m3CC9kPmAAKcEMDnOn9q4C3AQQ0apavfPMK/Tykv2LzSdl BanA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; 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[100.33.98.8]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k40sm3534855qta.76.2019.10.25.22.16.27 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 25 Oct 2019 22:16:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5db3d6ab.1c69fb81.a8bb5.421c@mx.google.com> Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2019 01:16:26 -0400 To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: dick Subject: control message for bug #37926 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) reassign 37926 emacs,gnus quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 26 16:21:36 2019 Received: (at 37926) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Oct 2019 20:21:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41465 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iOSZ5-0008Ns-SJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Oct 2019 16:21:36 -0400 Received: from ericabrahamsen.net ([52.70.2.18]:39432 helo=mail.ericabrahamsen.net) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iOSZ4-0008Nf-Cc for 37926@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Oct 2019 16:21:35 -0400 Received: from localhost (c-73-254-86-141.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [73.254.86.141]) (Authenticated sender: eric@ericabrahamsen.net) by mail.ericabrahamsen.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8DDC3FA028; Sat, 26 Oct 2019 20:21:28 +0000 (UTC) From: Eric Abrahamsen To: dick.r.chiang@gmail.com Subject: Re: bug#37926: [PATCH] Unify Gnus select methods References: <87zhhoh9kn.fsf@dick> Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2019 13:21:27 -0700 In-Reply-To: <87zhhoh9kn.fsf@dick> (dick r. chiang's message of "Fri, 25 Oct 2019 16:08:40 -0400") Message-ID: <877e4r5kc8.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37926 Cc: 37926@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) dick.r.chiang@gmail.com writes: > From d4654ad8f3412c79fa7d29427e66d2b964d5e191 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 > From: dickmao > Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 09:13:38 -0400 > Subject: [PATCH] Unify gnus select methods into one defcustom This seems like a good idea in general. Gnus users are often unwilling to update their configs, but in this case I doubt anyone's really keen on retaining the primary/secondary distinction -- there's not much point to it. All the same, it's probably worth floating on gnus.general. My only note would be to add plenty of code comments (around the defcustoms) explaining what's going on here. I've considered making this change in the past, but it didn't quite seem worth it unless we could actually simplify the code -- doing away with gnus-select-method and gnus-secondary-select-methods altogether. In a way your patch sort of complicates things, in that a year from now a bug-hunter is going to have to familiarize themselves with the hows and whys of the relationship between those options and gnus-select-methods. In a codebase that already contains a lot of mystery, I think it's important to note explicitly what's been done. Thanks, Eric From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 26 16:59:55 2019 Received: (at 37926) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Oct 2019 20:59:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41499 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iOTAB-0000ys-KJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Oct 2019 16:59:55 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.9]:47933) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iOTA9-0000yk-Sa for 37926@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Oct 2019 16:59:54 -0400 Received: from frontend01.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.182]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 470tf03d9Vz1qqkV; Sat, 26 Oct 2019 22:59:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.6.70]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 470tf0274Cz1qqkg; Sat, 26 Oct 2019 22:59:52 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.182]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.6.70]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AOI4R7dnBREX; Sat, 26 Oct 2019 22:59:51 +0200 (CEST) X-Auth-Info: 3RNpsC4gcISRHtOpUH5LEosiG9wXL/AXZ77UF/jua+nHjyOVi49IKKFuR4Ne5/rQ Received: from igel.home (ppp-46-244-180-97.dynamic.mnet-online.de [46.244.180.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Sat, 26 Oct 2019 22:59:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: by igel.home (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 999232C0B2D; Sat, 26 Oct 2019 22:59:50 +0200 (CEST) From: Andreas Schwab To: Eric Abrahamsen Subject: Re: bug#37926: [PATCH] Unify Gnus select methods References: <87zhhoh9kn.fsf@dick> <877e4r5kc8.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> X-Yow: I'm protected by a ROLL-ON I rented from AVIS.. Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2019 22:59:50 +0200 In-Reply-To: <877e4r5kc8.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> (Eric Abrahamsen's message of "Sat, 26 Oct 2019 13:21:27 -0700") Message-ID: <87h83vkyt5.fsf@igel.home> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37926 Cc: 37926@debbugs.gnu.org, dick.r.chiang@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) On Okt 26 2019, Eric Abrahamsen wrote: > dick.r.chiang@gmail.com writes: > >> From d4654ad8f3412c79fa7d29427e66d2b964d5e191 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 >> From: dickmao >> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 09:13:38 -0400 >> Subject: [PATCH] Unify gnus select methods into one defcustom > > This seems like a good idea in general. Gnus users are often unwilling > to update their configs, but in this case I doubt anyone's really keen > on retaining the primary/secondary distinction -- there's not much point > to it. All the same, it's probably worth floating on gnus.general. The groups of the primary select method are not prefixed. That needs to be preserved. Andreas. -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510 2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1 "And now for something completely different." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 27 10:01:28 2019 Received: (at 37926) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Oct 2019 14:01:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43368 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iOj6k-0000Ti-CR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Oct 2019 10:01:26 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]:51156) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iOj6g-0000TW-3K for 37926@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Oct 2019 10:01:22 -0400 Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=marnie) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iOj6c-0003FV-3g; Sun, 27 Oct 2019 15:01:20 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: dick.r.chiang@gmail.com Subject: Re: bug#37926: [PATCH] Unify Gnus select methods References: <87zhhoh9kn.fsf@dick> Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2019 15:01:17 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87zhhoh9kn.fsf@dick> (dick r. chiang's message of "Fri, 25 Oct 2019 16:08:40 -0400") Message-ID: <87a79mcmoi.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: dick.r.chiang@gmail.com writes: > Subject: [PATCH] Unify gnus select methods into one defcustom That was a long patch, and I'm not sure I understand what it's doing. Won't this basically break everybody's .newsrc.eld files? Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37926 Cc: 37926@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) dick.r.chiang@gmail.com writes: > Subject: [PATCH] Unify gnus select methods into one defcustom That was a long patch, and I'm not sure I understand what it's doing. Won't this basically break everybody's .newsrc.eld files? -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 27 14:21:50 2019 Received: (at 37926) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Oct 2019 18:21:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43534 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iOnAk-0007KJ-GZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Oct 2019 14:21:50 -0400 Received: from ericabrahamsen.net ([52.70.2.18]:55538 helo=mail.ericabrahamsen.net) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iOnAi-0007K7-Gc for 37926@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Oct 2019 14:21:48 -0400 Received: from localhost (c-73-254-86-141.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [73.254.86.141]) (Authenticated sender: eric@ericabrahamsen.net) by mail.ericabrahamsen.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1CE97FA028; Sun, 27 Oct 2019 18:21:42 +0000 (UTC) From: Eric Abrahamsen To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#37926: [PATCH] Unify Gnus select methods References: <87zhhoh9kn.fsf@dick> <87a79mcmoi.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2019 11:21:40 -0700 In-Reply-To: <87a79mcmoi.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sun, 27 Oct 2019 15:01:17 +0100") Message-ID: <87y2x62gnf.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37926 Cc: 37926@debbugs.gnu.org, dick.r.chiang@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > dick.r.chiang@gmail.com writes: > >> Subject: [PATCH] Unify gnus select methods into one defcustom > > That was a long patch, and I'm not sure I understand what it's doing. > Won't this basically break everybody's .newsrc.eld files? Basically it's introducing a new customization option, `gnus-select-methods' to obsolete `gnus-select-method' and `gnus-secondary-select-methods'. The latter two options are retained, and obsoleted only for 'set, not 'get. Then the defcustoms are jimmied so that customizing any of the options also sets the other two, so that: gnus-select-methods = (cons gnus-select-method gnus-secondary-select-methods) `gnus-select-method' is still used, `gnus-secondary-select-methods' not anymore. It only works if you customize those options though, not setq, so I don't see this being practically usable... Eric From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 27 23:55:21 2019 Received: (at 37926) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Oct 2019 03:55:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43711 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iOw7l-0005vl-Dc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Oct 2019 23:55:21 -0400 Received: from mail-qt1-f178.google.com ([209.85.160.178]:40681) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iOw7i-0005vS-De for 37926@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Oct 2019 23:55:19 -0400 Received: by mail-qt1-f178.google.com with SMTP id o49so12697981qta.7 for <37926@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 27 Oct 2019 20:55:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=V2O4Ln0+yUo6BAAmkqzSVzGd6SqbTIjYEAm2fRmaTGQ=; b=j0X26IFNBBsyeRpl6GhZMZGoap22xj7EakUgItM+5x2FMRmv35TUR+pVdHEaG0RsbQ f5tBMBxaCLlSpyx/muGJcn8vYUpKR1EiX5SvEHNvgURU3CVNjxhGBU/kwKvkxcTB3CeL ycplqBkdn7q+gXFNp5vrjIwUXdTDuazvajdHzltRP+SqCyrB6MJtxkYx2lcAduwVZ/QE /1xVoaUEto1578gYOc1LuziEMo84xpXaKl7igBdk1Y2MA7h4rJYkINlpuqjHL9bCTfEb qSb4mVURNlGqBJMw5SDZZEVeiqY1dcy+cdYPsiXD/ytPiZij9157iZ6/L2v7ICT0obux ueuw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=V2O4Ln0+yUo6BAAmkqzSVzGd6SqbTIjYEAm2fRmaTGQ=; b=EJYIaZ4/UArW6bRKvsZ3jWrImluMUmzZpMj9SH3aP8Upk22hkamQr2VUFH9crsJfgz yAXlb4zwDHtEp5VFkJ9WVPE4bEGDfHi9dZojjQ9IL7MrZn5mKcSa3y0LRP5MGVKMoGqm kq4LA3eLolMICbxyXb0TaViKSNzmqgIvBTcOk8cMlnnRLmR0oImcWoWAxxtpjw8i8UE0 IwS19taeouQzhrB8s4GuqxF4O5k0aAqqRIpjXWgNT81qqeHAMXJyWjyNFewXYV77w4IV SqjnnKmBe2Y6tnUcV3gyMP0Hqg6iEXz6MznCcvlwQvB4WWhAs8jLtAjOlP75i8z6THua lf4w== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVH3Bv4gzgLGeOMqn2td1aFuc8d5jaFhA93Mf9/vqY3OG2aTKfV ORjJ/51aaC/nGHgY8qyPBUg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxcKWfA6SIvZEM4E4CfrPUci5m2II4any0D/tP8I8ERvTalnG7EXV+gl086Ot68SxllG4PNOw== X-Received: by 2002:ad4:568d:: with SMTP id bc13mr15783603qvb.102.1572234912771; Sun, 27 Oct 2019 20:55:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (pool-100-33-98-8.nycmny.fios.verizon.net. [100.33.98.8]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v141sm6294117qka.59.2019.10.27.20.55.11 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 27 Oct 2019 20:55:12 -0700 (PDT) From: dick.r.chiang@gmail.com To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#37926: [PATCH] Unify Gnus select methods References: <87zhhoh9kn.fsf@dick> <87a79mcmoi.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2019 23:55:11 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87a79mcmoi.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sun, 27 Oct 2019 15:01:17 +0100") Message-ID: <87h83tsew0.fsf@dick> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37926 Cc: 37926@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > That was a long patch, and I'm not sure I understand what it's doing. Won't > this basically break everybody's .newsrc.eld files? I wasn't aware .newsrc.eld recorded a primary/secondary distinction. If you meant dot.emacs or dot.gnus, then the patch was intended to be backwards-compatible with separately specifying gnus-select-method and gnus-secondary-select-methods. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Oct 28 07:20:13 2019 Received: (at 37926) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Oct 2019 11:20:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43942 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iP34H-0004Qh-2j for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Oct 2019 07:20:13 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]:38900) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iP34F-0004QX-8H for 37926@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Oct 2019 07:20:11 -0400 Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=marnie) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iP34C-0006Qh-34; Mon, 28 Oct 2019 12:20:10 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: dick.r.chiang@gmail.com Subject: Re: bug#37926: [PATCH] Unify Gnus select methods References: <87zhhoh9kn.fsf@dick> <87a79mcmoi.fsf@gnus.org> <87h83tsew0.fsf@dick> Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2019 12:20:07 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87h83tsew0.fsf@dick> (dick r. chiang's message of "Sun, 27 Oct 2019 23:55:11 -0400") Message-ID: <87imo9azh4.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: dick.r.chiang@gmail.com writes: >> That was a long patch, and I'm not sure I understand what it's doing. Won't >> this basically break everybody's .newsrc.eld files? > > I wasn't aware .newsrc.eld recorded a primary/secondary distin [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37926 Cc: 37926@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) dick.r.chiang@gmail.com writes: >> That was a long patch, and I'm not sure I understand what it's doing. Won't >> this basically break everybody's .newsrc.eld files? > > I wasn't aware .newsrc.eld recorded a primary/secondary distinction. Primary groups are "foo.bar" in .newsrc.eld, while secondary are "nnimap+zot.org:foo.bar". -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Oct 28 09:54:12 2019 Received: (at 37926) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Oct 2019 13:54:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44038 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iP5TH-0005qV-S7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Oct 2019 09:54:12 -0400 Received: from mail-qt1-f194.google.com ([209.85.160.194]:36108) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iP5TG-0005qD-ED for 37926@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Oct 2019 09:54:10 -0400 Received: by mail-qt1-f194.google.com with SMTP id x14so4338485qtq.3 for <37926@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 28 Oct 2019 06:54:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=lKZhedvWVM5Rg24QZoT/+mdjxCuNfHdf8hjWSuGOMc0=; b=TlksjmjuLXpr3ijQswZOhFNe7rViJa+t/9RDa7WdhkhvCMwPNE0QaiqXJcmHyrCUvz anRjcRZG1Qsn1j+9nlL1vwosk6O/CZrB0hHKbCraFvFJL3SxNtEiIsygs66s2ZPAeepQ ovjIL/C8Qxd9lTF4Q5c8wPrP0lbw3yT9BbJynsT6BGz3FmSgd5ogB0f46rh4loYHYSsa qu9qrVdrlgh8vlIlYu3ApCdP+XZEWmFGPDWcojxDIdRmnLiqB9GhiJqdZ/hbBOvI2DGu FEXLSlQNo8nXDeM60PqyG5hAUXkuKHMAaZvy3uvfESkb4kPzCEVsunfV3FWkw0skms2+ ZRVg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=lKZhedvWVM5Rg24QZoT/+mdjxCuNfHdf8hjWSuGOMc0=; b=ZIJB3TC3XT7pYOWp6F0cQRT94pgCsOzeXSsrHgzxvBbRwF+PbEI52Tlz5vtTSXvxbV W0bPYZztaAzBjk3x16UOQ3NHaTmWMfg/OyJdh58iColMJNIPHRepycdg2ehUKvSF6QQR 43zA4OKdrmiV3cC4epbcErPnSnlLtGXOL5WVnxFPx4OlI+MSb2biDhuWnzHdo7itufkG Hp3sWg9XJJWNznbKaW8dZqAIEEFOdqtsZtsxhgqjtXSP+44y/R6JcLpoh83JTORo/+j1 Yupzb+JYtNjwo+v6iuB8Ch5zwk2yu3r/mpW4Tws/g6SyEYwcBXfL3MDzjAUwcV33DfhN kSKA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXEziAE9K/LU+VmXMZItBeU5Ny3wC77gjsxTnSJV8uBfAAO8g6H Pjp3k8obIM3mMIVhEfw2eSU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxr1upw/b8RhnlBRnDPGctmgElJXqt0FQX091RB0YWL4zmOsiJ45TOKhycq/Go7SfSJtpXOfA== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:80f:: with SMTP id u15mr17162958qth.193.1572270843823; Mon, 28 Oct 2019 06:54:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (pool-100-33-98-8.nycmny.fios.verizon.net. [100.33.98.8]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h3sm8221751qte.62.2019.10.28.06.54.02 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 28 Oct 2019 06:54:03 -0700 (PDT) From: dick.r.chiang@gmail.com To: Lars Ingebrigtsen , eric@ericabrahamsen.net, schwab@linux-m68k.org Subject: Re: bug#37926: [PATCH] Unify Gnus select methods References: <87zhhoh9kn.fsf@dick> <87a79mcmoi.fsf@gnus.org> <87h83tsew0.fsf@dick> <87imo9azh4.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2019 09:54:02 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87imo9azh4.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Mon, 28 Oct 2019 12:20:07 +0100") Message-ID: <87sgndht6t.fsf@dick> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37926 Cc: 37926@debbugs.gnu.org, dick.r.chiang@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) The first reaction of Andreas Schwab was also to ensure the primary remains unprefixed. I am not privy to the history of this sensitivity, but I assume there is one, and I trust you'll tell me why the patch breaks this. My current understanding is that `gnus-select-method` and `gnus-secondary-select-methods` remain appropriately defined if someone only specifies the unified `gnus-select-methods`. Under the existing code, I assume changing one's gnus-select-method wreaks havoc on a dot.newsrc.eld that assumes some other non-nnnil gnus-select-method. This patch does nothing to alleviate that. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Oct 28 10:03:32 2019 Received: (at 37926) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Oct 2019 14:03:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45993 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iP5cK-0006Zf-73 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Oct 2019 10:03:32 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]:40500) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iP5cI-0006ZX-Jf for 37926@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Oct 2019 10:03:31 -0400 Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=marnie) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iP5cE-0007vR-93; Mon, 28 Oct 2019 15:03:28 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: dick.r.chiang@gmail.com Subject: Re: bug#37926: [PATCH] Unify Gnus select methods References: <87zhhoh9kn.fsf@dick> <87a79mcmoi.fsf@gnus.org> <87h83tsew0.fsf@dick> <87imo9azh4.fsf@gnus.org> <87sgndht6t.fsf@dick> Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2019 15:03:25 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87sgndht6t.fsf@dick> (dick r. chiang's message of "Mon, 28 Oct 2019 09:54:02 -0400") Message-ID: <878sp5arwy.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: dick.r.chiang@gmail.com writes: > The first reaction of Andreas Schwab was also to ensure the primary remains > unprefixed. I am not privy to the history of this sensitivity, but I assume > there is one, and I trust you'll tell me w [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37926 Cc: eric@ericabrahamsen.net, 37926@debbugs.gnu.org, schwab@linux-m68k.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) dick.r.chiang@gmail.com writes: > The first reaction of Andreas Schwab was also to ensure the primary remains > unprefixed. I am not privy to the history of this sensitivity, but I assume > there is one, and I trust you'll tell me why the patch breaks this. As I said, your patch is long. I haven't studied it in detail. It would help if you provided a text that explains what the patch aims to do, and what it fixes. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 29 02:05:41 2019 Received: (at 37926) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Oct 2019 06:05:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46768 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iPKdQ-0004Zr-SP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Oct 2019 02:05:41 -0400 Received: from mail-qt1-f171.google.com ([209.85.160.171]:35972) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iPKdP-0004Zd-95 for 37926@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Oct 2019 02:05:40 -0400 Received: by mail-qt1-f171.google.com with SMTP id x14so8264882qtq.3 for <37926@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 28 Oct 2019 23:05:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=buIxnJcjxjiXGmW7DsAT+LtrRqcJ80v0m3oWUVIuorQ=; b=hTIDCKjHBrl5lGNARwZEpKZScWV/TgATUIJyst/8qcGTDs+mNDg/kiYMhpwPDl0OTM VMAh15liC/tT3PuYsv5v8D65B0CYfu21+G2W9k2Q95nyH9JIQTZQpfkP6V6Gx0c4Fp1b 0CuNoVKkCphp8haHu2/75hhANAzf7Upkiy2dL7Sjw4SOrKBz6Nozq/8oRzRDK9T6AW8a tqUC8WKnpOaTSDH+zC5YPmFKaJrbO9xfVUGIPqD99Hv/4ZS5GySoFE3QaW4T/qf9UFUE NxSvDqB3zCrP1wmLQmb891d3UFGPq2nyWUuomRIRFqDjzqPBM4DNHVQkXe6H3BIu85C1 GWwQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=buIxnJcjxjiXGmW7DsAT+LtrRqcJ80v0m3oWUVIuorQ=; b=DXYxPkS4cdNUyHhpxl/F3SfSVavrRmQlT9JfsuOcMlwWo+y4Qgo5b8KfJsmuYy1+Kz KysZ0oMjxM66eSwlbXExjeFTVtzOD7jAaJxTP85q0+4WFhiNLQCYHIKdovE4yPRfnL/P FRhL3f/WDJ1/BW4+QOX63Hyc9ReBSRG2raKJLENFzyK7i7hWVCmcS2DTeE1q6A9VMeYw eLeFJlFRADUgan5c18cx+IgUetyYFiCSFROIqebwqXViER8TNrq44tBkAtDADp7mKwkL bChkzW4d2YU/YGuwQIeNcmxPXThFTeycO+pGSB2JzeMZMPLWSsA0OiQkvdbqa3tswkQ+ 7H+g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAX5VfmwLHzBngz0WqqnzctkGdnqw6s98YjiZQa4H5z3Xpy26nIl pzlNIx8UvIQWeMZ0bTgICLo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwuaSK8NBl9MyvB2u5PI3o+zWRSzX7D6fVLV43kT2fNV8kWnb33Kh4U8Wzcqo6o7be57HT+6w== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:29e8:: with SMTP id 37mr2515075qtt.21.1572329133758; Mon, 28 Oct 2019 23:05:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (pool-100-33-98-8.nycmny.fios.verizon.net. [100.33.98.8]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h185sm3245067qkc.7.2019.10.28.23.05.32 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 28 Oct 2019 23:05:33 -0700 (PDT) From: dick.r.chiang@gmail.com To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#37926: [PATCH] Unify Gnus select methods References: <87zhhoh9kn.fsf@dick> <87a79mcmoi.fsf@gnus.org> <87h83tsew0.fsf@dick> <87imo9azh4.fsf@gnus.org> <87sgndht6t.fsf@dick> <878sp5arwy.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2019 02:05:32 -0400 In-Reply-To: <878sp5arwy.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Mon, 28 Oct 2019 15:03:25 +0100") Message-ID: <87r22w2ij7.fsf@dick> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37926 Cc: 37926@debbugs.gnu.org, dick.r.chiang@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) It doesn't fix anything. I think Eric Abrahamsen adequately describes the change in a parallel thread. The introduction of a separate `gnus-secondary-select-methods` rather than merely vectorizing `gnus-select-method` seems a youthful indiscretion that's persisted to the present-day. The "insider" convention of specifying a primary of `nnnil` to symmetrize one's other backends has caused a collective double-take among newer users like myself. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 29 08:05:06 2019 Received: (at 37926) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Oct 2019 12:05:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46986 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iPQFG-00073Y-IW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Oct 2019 08:05:06 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]:55442) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iPQFD-00073N-KU for 37926@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Oct 2019 08:05:04 -0400 Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=marnie) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iPQF9-0008Tv-Oh; Tue, 29 Oct 2019 13:05:02 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: dick.r.chiang@gmail.com Subject: Re: bug#37926: [PATCH] Unify Gnus select methods References: <87zhhoh9kn.fsf@dick> <87a79mcmoi.fsf@gnus.org> <87h83tsew0.fsf@dick> <87imo9azh4.fsf@gnus.org> <87sgndht6t.fsf@dick> <878sp5arwy.fsf@gnus.org> <87r22w2ij7.fsf@dick> Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2019 13:04:59 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87r22w2ij7.fsf@dick> (dick r. chiang's message of "Tue, 29 Oct 2019 02:05:32 -0400") Message-ID: <87bltz21w4.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: dick.r.chiang@gmail.com writes: > It doesn't fix anything. I think Eric Abrahamsen adequately describes the > change in a parallel thread. Not really -- he says that it complicates things, but not exactly is meant to be achieved by the patch. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37926 Cc: 37926@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) dick.r.chiang@gmail.com writes: > It doesn't fix anything. I think Eric Abrahamsen adequately describes the > change in a parallel thread. Not really -- he says that it complicates things, but not exactly is meant to be achieved by the patch. > The introduction of a separate `gnus-secondary-select-methods` rather than > merely vectorizing `gnus-select-method` seems a youthful indiscretion that's > persisted to the present-day. No, it was done to retain backwards compatibility. > The "insider" convention of specifying a primary of `nnnil` to > symmetrize one's other backends has caused a collective double-take > among newer users like myself. Very few people use the nnnil thing -- all it gives you is that you don't get any unprefixed groups. So again I ask you -- what does your patch do? Does it make all the groups prefixed? If you can't explain what the patch does, it doesn't seem likely to be applied. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 29 12:35:21 2019 Received: (at 37926) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Oct 2019 16:35:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48549 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iPUSm-0005pl-5Q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Oct 2019 12:35:21 -0400 Received: from mail-qk1-f174.google.com ([209.85.222.174]:40618) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iPUSk-0005pS-B9 for 37926@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Oct 2019 12:35:18 -0400 Received: by mail-qk1-f174.google.com with SMTP id y81so12835208qkb.7 for <37926@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 29 Oct 2019 09:35:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=YJyPxQhXSJoHCkMj9+DvubEpxSPp0K44YkmfUgp3gKY=; b=K2LGZD9VwMNSl/v4r9yOWrqFkCGyZp5uObSi1jrReymGiWnTHxMAGgBmqQZOT1yiB8 hA7eDkflaEaKQKIUDgHY5mnnlybi8xT1VXKsYJ63n3bTBVLTV3REQfdf70OJYimzxZy5 /iVnlWeLIK5n9ZD1ni7m4pNHkCljt0fTF59k1T41+GRpQVPwySGPVLu4SIWf2nxGDAoI BYXkMdhNhwRiec75Uh9KG2Np6Y8+LbIa5l46qtSJh7JrU10+Ou84jsPR0TcxK7hahMqE TZtevKdgivd4x3+SVIEjZsNTlLTd87EMX9EOgjjU2wpcKxcZ/+qi/IA4gzowT8jLyez4 Q30A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=YJyPxQhXSJoHCkMj9+DvubEpxSPp0K44YkmfUgp3gKY=; b=SVKmnsQYztoGrXqqIwTA7gFC4ZNq28p//9+iI9YhVrfAcVZsAfhzYUtoRVHY0tjr+x kcPRTF9c1q/Zd2NcDQibmw8mto4Zl9d45XdYRZ4wdt7iyMyqGHVPPo8JAqvjkzbDLqA/ SJe+4IEhEGt3+6AIksLVbjZWr82nO3zwTsBdFSeTKvFv78EpmqwiPoKU9sp4lU8bW+Uy D20V7f7uaj3RO5KuMwXhXbaCjZ0fQuke8+AwyT7aranl8dh1Eaw/t+1lXTjFDKdvk6zf 1bMVV3lJ/5xQbyT4/0oBxJQXts8UQApdZHa9s6YkWPBAkjAc8EUXEhUMuUYoAVe8Tkvm 7gMw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVY1XrD7X2TksVXPpsKi8NbyYRTYjtvQEZ2jVXRlBS/hiqjYMrj uaija+scdyfTvZZzsExmZ7I= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqw5EME98JajtsE3b87KGj5PP1cjhpNjzSpDh9ql4pssUjP18R6uDUTUG5cwrnYK6dRw6xwnKA== X-Received: by 2002:a37:e407:: with SMTP id y7mr20295814qkf.160.1572366912785; Tue, 29 Oct 2019 09:35:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (pool-100-33-98-8.nycmny.fios.verizon.net. [100.33.98.8]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m186sm8057458qkd.119.2019.10.29.09.35.10 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 29 Oct 2019 09:35:10 -0700 (PDT) From: dick.r.chiang@gmail.com To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#37926: [PATCH] Unify Gnus select methods References: <87zhhoh9kn.fsf@dick> <87a79mcmoi.fsf@gnus.org> <87h83tsew0.fsf@dick> <87imo9azh4.fsf@gnus.org> <87sgndht6t.fsf@dick> <878sp5arwy.fsf@gnus.org> <87r22w2ij7.fsf@dick> <87bltz21w4.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2019 12:35:09 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87bltz21w4.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Tue, 29 Oct 2019 13:04:59 +0100") Message-ID: <87h83r4iiq.fsf@dick> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37926 Cc: 37926@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) The patch, rather opinionatedly, instructs new users to specify their backends via a single defcustom `gnus-select-methods`. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Nov 02 09:10:28 2019 Received: (at 37926) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Nov 2019 13:10:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58663 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iQtAh-0002jh-Rz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 09:10:28 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.19]:48541) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iQtAe-0002jP-SK for 37926@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 09:10:26 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1572700205; bh=GiPIa2qnp5e1aV/qa6HglUEC7jrNGUL4+LFFv06QN+M=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=QsT20aHL+dgNUchyEREx05lNosjxHvNPQUFSqUFv35nad/vujn4hnksnaoZq/wtvr 3ShEohKAv1M5ZOu6VPx6qECurQp1CR3S4K8Kz4aZ3OYRocm1j9IhlzPkCn0EPrAo1j crgB5paaDUhRBQZFyRNqxbDGRAbkrQjtAkG4AzWo= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from dellcorei5dias ([5.54.212.153]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.184]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MCsU6-1iI7iv2PBY-008s7h; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 14:10:05 +0100 From: Deus Max To: Andreas Schwab Subject: Re: bug#37926: [PATCH] Unify Gnus select methods References: <87zhhoh9kn.fsf@dick> <877e4r5kc8.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87h83vkyt5.fsf@igel.home> Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 15:09:57 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87h83vkyt5.fsf@igel.home> (Andreas Schwab's message of "Sat, 26 Oct 2019 22:59:50 +0200") Message-ID: <87zhhea0gq.fsf@dellcorei5dias.home> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:xQk0ovTfojXgog9U6qZ1c9T2tkBuPhj/q8/zQP68VGoaS5MmegE r2U3VD7KMzBbFzcaAR4cRCtrIqBmjJf5HyhI9IWVqso9TErz/iEKFoPZliuNDh9dC+qyN3N cSPrkxTFMOR8aWB+v0gd3tr1qyrfSkiQTRy2fCjokDX40j0bAUfQfZJJQjPhWkMqICYqeie OcEKYR/QhecRrQaT+I6Vw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:Jz45N91bTUo=:AqzO3EDGyUkeqQdIOE0MWd MMJ5uWo2Qch752rr6rdo+5CCaGDWPHIum/57fwvGfDHY4VtlxG4fG8WIMKeDJc+KIRgtAt1dq ZtiHDrnW/mvb7rAO3LrLKruvDnW8Y2np01/ILIzdmtP4WiaVTiFzvlrCmHDO8ezE7yuMCWcwt E495vJ7I65H5r4DCJvJy6O7kAqejyfekUquK5BJ7avsIjdxtQh6pk0AVqn+sL/zU3X0Qaljd6 wivii55DNHAqEDCH1k3ueLTFSWfnXPy+ImywobzknhHpNkoKyW5dlseBolRRorvUoOxPJ+Qlc NR+XL92XENTH3NoKQAchVlWymjEiTW1ZoY4xq/1TtRfUQ7pU+WhXMr4fVobyfQHJq0WRfyg3F zgtorLP0mMiZBPydn/utweQnPedIQhM0VAo3pHljJrRkqb0TnV1+ZlzjHinbuAPLvHK5+AebS zuyuhQSbdwnaA95yPb4kYo8VGhmrWofYg5ScGR2rbqzSjqS4aWszhYIThAylVAFR2G8hH66HP BMEBKiQ6eGCT0w0rpLY6H6icSRWjR2XMgbA9MCNz+qr/VQWkAyYf1cF9UVuTlVGJq0ZqFku9P AgNB7rmp3UZtwM96CkZ99XtxbPqBzzZF5x6JC5ehHiBlCd6iKfqFFP57QaoRQyHMYMAwZq0D8 h/nfiDE/LbqWtQu59A8UT4rq+ug/x53PeYWfl+We6y29jsXg1vuXAE0ZhatkJrYOR2qp8ROMx fq5IXBG7g+pNsh/dqhXdlLSx7Nb7lNB/vXODzTex9S+jgyDx9J+L/Oeg35q7QuycSrTCq8k6D M38nAbAbg2+3m56+A+UlG6UmCmNKgjCFJRGuylSwxGl0SQ1SEEaUUUIiKvux1Ia9gPTG4N3i1 3HP00Lm7B7jD1Sh/KfuM4ZqeYhn8x0OzjBpRPH3uWbZBhW+eTIKd+TzWgQq79MHwrkU2QSkSQ Yicini6GY9FwPJL2EOnF4nrMoLs8oZgE/jLtIgX06xjiPi40BJqLbRD/ANo1k+E0a8gTWfJuD LtQvZCMDAyT11u5TNfCq7Af4MpWFETfyIY7yRmui4wIdUBhrpGf47avDBb/pmmAN9AbpDlCLF mFy1Veb7dzwjUWa9NNtlsDlRiFf+HvFzf1MQlzlBceEGUY6TY2SJZpbDRR8cGFQ7yFGJUivg9 Y6j6jsNITQAKsXXDZhhnOQdn6ChJFYf0HmZFX8TPsi+WABwU2efbhZmnx3ZXZaHKfBSl7yb6b xFOoKlaAfQ6qUFVTKMyAf2/Rb3LkT39v2GyNz/A== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37926 Cc: Eric Abrahamsen , 37926@debbugs.gnu.org, dick.r.chiang@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Sat, Oct 26 2019, Andreas Schwab wrote: > On Okt 26 2019, Eric Abrahamsen wrote: > >> dick.r.chiang@gmail.com writes: >> >>> From d4654ad8f3412c79fa7d29427e66d2b964d5e191 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 >>> From: dickmao >>> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 09:13:38 -0400 >>> Subject: [PATCH] Unify gnus select methods into one defcustom >> >> This seems like a good idea in general. Gnus users are often unwilling >> to update their configs, but in this case I doubt anyone's really keen >> on retaining the primary/secondary distinction -- there's not much point >> to it. All the same, it's probably worth floating on gnus.general. > > The groups of the primary select method are not prefixed. That needs to > be preserved. > > Andreas. Preserving the one group of the primary selection makes it special and that defeats the purpose of unifying the select methods. So on the contrary, it should not be preserved and all the groups should be properly (fully) prefixed. Of course, on the downside, one would have to update all the gnus article links to the primary-select-method. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Nov 02 09:36:59 2019 Received: (at 37926) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Nov 2019 13:36:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58676 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iQtaN-0003RX-Iu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 09:36:59 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.9]:37386) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iQtaM-0003RP-2p for 37926@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 09:36:58 -0400 Received: from frontend01.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.182]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4750Th6klLz1qtqX; Sat, 2 Nov 2019 14:36:56 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.6.70]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4750Th50Svz1qqkL; Sat, 2 Nov 2019 14:36:56 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.182]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.6.70]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UTUj4CcluuBq; Sat, 2 Nov 2019 14:36:56 +0100 (CET) X-Auth-Info: pN2B6iYVmAtTt6SQck+Nn9zP1PoNLzgDVGmXX0Oc4C3rCRzkRRffyEq+r/SFq+Rw Received: from igel.home (ppp-46-244-177-194.dynamic.mnet-online.de [46.244.177.194]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Sat, 2 Nov 2019 14:36:56 +0100 (CET) Received: by igel.home (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 48A0C2C01BB; Sat, 2 Nov 2019 14:36:55 +0100 (CET) From: Andreas Schwab To: Deus Max Subject: Re: bug#37926: [PATCH] Unify Gnus select methods References: <87zhhoh9kn.fsf@dick> <877e4r5kc8.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87h83vkyt5.fsf@igel.home> <87zhhea0gq.fsf@dellcorei5dias.home> X-Yow: America!! I saw it all!! Vomiting! Waving! JERRY FALWELLING into your void tube of UHF oblivion!! SAFEWAY of the mind -- Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 14:36:55 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87zhhea0gq.fsf@dellcorei5dias.home> (Deus Max's message of "Sat, 02 Nov 2019 15:09:57 +0200") Message-ID: <87r22qo0w8.fsf@igel.home> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37926 Cc: Eric Abrahamsen , 37926@debbugs.gnu.org, dick.r.chiang@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) On Nov 02 2019, Deus Max wrote: > Preserving the one group of the primary selection makes it special That's the point of the primary select method. Andreas. -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510 2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1 "And now for something completely different." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Nov 02 09:42:13 2019 Received: (at 37926) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Nov 2019 13:42:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58688 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iQtfR-0003bB-Ct for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 09:42:13 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.21]:55407) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iQtfM-0003ap-Q5 for 37926@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 09:42:09 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1572702111; bh=JwjZnNbvs+ffruWV41JcKOYbJr4TqLWVS6/0oi9f79Y=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=WrxLPT+aWE5vpce8VHgIGSmDZrcDsp0pFYnND5RB5Smup4dhfzWjxHB+jhERlhPM+ 9UD0XDUaKYl2zFFiOYN+449syyzyLEJPGzoPc8nxT3euDX8rZVFd2ZsGSopWxTvczH JzE4a/uqb6l79Is4ECLPRZbCKi1hPTceWgMgkdGo= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from dellcorei5dias ([5.54.212.153]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx104 [212.227.17.174]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1M6DWi-1iKK503fIm-006iZ1; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 14:41:51 +0100 From: Deus Max To: Eric Abrahamsen Subject: Re: bug#37926: [PATCH] Unify Gnus select methods In-Reply-To: <87y2x62gnf.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> (Eric Abrahamsen's message of "Sun, 27 Oct 2019 11:21:40 -0700") References: <87zhhoh9kn.fsf@dick> <87a79mcmoi.fsf@gnus.org> <87y2x62gnf.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 15:41:41 +0200 Message-ID: <87ftj68kfe.fsf@dellcorei5dias.home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:+GlXn6ZOufUT4h19oJghjEyISmwTu7K+aCHZ+Xh4laHux/bO1pJ 1/IVfwbmHBm8izVCiRx1xZl9FEQQRl4eXnQv/Hr84zsPno6CRtJE/TRm0RCZ5f3JnI/xCcw Qptmml1DuA1ryd4vpR092H7xNKa9sezgSxjSDpABUyV9HRhmYXD/A7/OkCTrp6sMqQyt736 j1ZrbpA4FaspIeID6Q33g== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:KTlwe8k+eqs=:feSSztKmqIZZr2mFwM5XF5 pbKuCWO/cQcq/qJclLBuiO5Trpuibb9FGiL9URGHUuHblfFL+cJr3koDsm0B0pJOvOQI6JzWf fk7bpYHvfhB+M8XqsckpEftAAgcTutglMi8zQcTBmCKoXqi5fpxyfRLAlvL7B9pyMSCHr/Dmn Nu/QRAgmcEt7OxCY7jI6XICcskn3hdolf8KNz5zvR6AetoXk/wZJy3Ft7UnBzkAdtznmurr7V wPm3CWjnSiL3AYLStRnccB5iA9Yh3uv5bny52Q4LUxH7OC1RGvmnakWN8k5tb342ym7UVAAXi nzrHvo1OTsP3k1lkY9BakmgHLqehFYRx1m44qLTttoK5/tffTzr48kntW5RjBkzvJwNkill23 aAAB1+uOmeRq7s3fpJzoGjCrCe3gnk604wq3LfUG8fA8VTQjwXyxD5uplxZMTOB0eUBCu9rq8 Hja3zIUCvH84umDZ6ElGCQS0ir2brAWET7aolI8TMTJK0C+gTtxppS4z8v1LzybZ1gHt2OUWh g5xiYnQXjn2VH4AzfYn9YHqOVACT/HkQzpfqTj/4z5yzkhT7a8IYhLHV8fx3xbnRv1NNdbfkY 72fxpqP9gAYCMbgEWRjgjOshYKt12Wfimo7JTscQIu+4uOTLn7iNSa9x0cpys4squ4uknugdy M9qumaulv/gHxZWRI94EXC+KqXp6wMl5aEzMKxRzk47ZPK4S05Ah7HIUuLM9UgmbtLa5CXIGX KQ0k5RDcVGNHzCO1AHLjqV6uCF0sRfK71s4sDeeM8z5KCaAP8U81PEcJbafuUskS8ErAsPwvx QGUskbkj7hHSTua8BzRXK6qlrcX9Qh+f6Ifl8rbPwXScQZgn1R+IzobUbsyO+3Q3eFA9iNbzp fvbE5RM9vQRHWX8arfzIQPjJdJrrp80nxA2cj7vPpWKaLbzh/QCp0AfqkoilmJYv43u2kAkmy hrpJ5fn4ZCXXln0ssvEGwn2/+mDHKlUATVi7b8NFowBrGpnRtDcbBM9C+rVsPG3+UloP3k7B1 R6hurAf1Q1A3H+bochQBVS83iRB7o+ieFp6x/0UrZxbPC6CRMZG+6/kwSAS6S5S0rckBou8V8 JPOez+JRcgBfXRKtEwHuokfyVCNn6GO6fFMcQ+rM5LOsuI2ELQ+G52NALlwL6wqsKQ0mHm/Lc lNGwqycjSfNIeqp3qwUHggIoYlZlREInUI77ZVYR04cVcQCNmoGrfvJDwTM03whm3Vmdzkebi jWkCIeMUVRf7E7fW3Ka2+KvufNJpDXKL0JYMMO25jGCd3Erg4pwTj6BtZ3KA= X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37926 Cc: 37926@debbugs.gnu.org, Lars Ingebrigtsen , dick.r.chiang@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Sun, Oct 27 2019, Eric Abrahamsen wrote: > Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > >> dick.r.chiang@gmail.com writes: >> >>> Subject: [PATCH] Unify gnus select methods into one defcustom >> >> That was a long patch, and I'm not sure I understand what it's doing. >> Won't this basically break everybody's .newsrc.eld files? > > Basically it's introducing a new customization option, > `gnus-select-methods' to obsolete `gnus-select-method' and > `gnus-secondary-select-methods'. The latter two options are retained, > and obsoleted only for 'set, not 'get. Then the defcustoms are jimmied > so that customizing any of the options also sets the other two, so that: > > gnus-select-methods = (cons gnus-select-method gnus-secondary-select-methods) > > `gnus-select-method' is still used, `gnus-secondary-select-methods' not > anymore. > > It only works if you customize those options though, not setq, so I > don't see this being practically usable... > > Eric It seems to me that 'gnus-secondary-select-methods' is already set-up to use multiple groups, so it would be *a lot* easier to move all group definitions to 'gnus-secondary-select-methods' and deprecate 'gnus-select-method'. The .newsrc* files would need to be updated for all unprefixed groups. Maybe a command that asks the user for what prefix to use ? No matter the implementation method, unifying the select methods, is bound to create some backward compatibility issues, either with group reading, history files etc. Implementing it, maybe a chance to bump up the Gnus version ? ;-) DeusM From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Nov 02 10:10:19 2019 Received: (at 37926) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Nov 2019 14:10:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60988 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iQu6c-0004vy-TW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 10:10:19 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.20]:46289) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iQu6Z-0004vV-5l for 37926@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 10:10:15 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1572703797; bh=BtfgeOzRoOyqlkoH0oGdqjkbcv8HaPkOuYe8T9sFCOk=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=X8INmepjCwfHoL9ynNp/gvfT+3soRXUUd7wRf2+kEBXmeFD9gvvA4VK1iCTjkYvqJ jWOm2Pf49nlOPmosjd+Ngf7mtZzYJzGKVp0sfIxfzsClVELL4vjGixVj5bxYbIQrKB hQLBVdMsRksaSaOD7xTYehy2hjicA0+3SQyHSaXg= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from dellcorei5dias ([5.54.212.153]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.174]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1Mo6qp-1hcUFK2NEB-00paae; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 15:09:57 +0100 From: Deus Max To: Andreas Schwab Subject: Re: bug#37926: [PATCH] Unify Gnus select methods References: <87zhhoh9kn.fsf@dick> <877e4r5kc8.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87h83vkyt5.fsf@igel.home> <87zhhea0gq.fsf@dellcorei5dias.home> <87r22qo0w8.fsf@igel.home> Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 16:09:49 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87r22qo0w8.fsf@igel.home> (Andreas Schwab's message of "Sat, 02 Nov 2019 14:36:55 +0100") Message-ID: <87zhhe74k2.fsf@dellcorei5dias.home> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:B5Mf6d2Gm2o7N015WsL4bjgOdrLX7XbjJ5o6ZQrmT6Jlw/RnLJ6 ZtVhh5Jxubjr7BlR499/m/qsF9hkEUgtgG2VQxe2auf37UqG2Fl7KDZVfG3V7UZ0RoUb+QU 19uUj4dWOM/16bMGw8/q6YQlXY8Hw4wADl3Fhxozkwne7lcaW76qyM6K7WmG8398Mfy0/TG 4w0EGY8RHgcc8yckHSeTw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:KsH9K5PiJ4Y=:SAmsSNonRyN6MtCoCy7Ifs GseZ1JChryxpEx5FtV/zJD/IKQSVhmYUnL/GVyUsVPf3zIfHLkdzeMS2pxHgXSOR9bw3sp9tq G8By6eOL0QvGQfv1U2S7/If1X5UjkZQcQncnBSSjdBc4S2cT/rSlV/U6qHJjRo0SQoh/d0aLL 1PPpOoF4EdUYX9ZF/lkqkhUAHT5nXVXQDUn9Ta6yWORCe0eTGY/rDEqELefUlhvn2IDnNljsN U5MRM1mx0osGwvpYMOAMfKM6086VXueIBrG9/kSZ+wwl52sfJ7gUIpkqWMWOAdmejG/yVSFqc plW+fqglMCeL/GOjiH/ZHzz25yfuf9vciVD3cfb1Lt4KhVY+c0gT7u6y9XOlohLqsd4G2UM7e hg4LeJu5RrBXGfa0i1CcD8tZIXSoSUmwj7Hea/Esw95mNsAEUxnXI6f4pdj6VMwMCq5BU9f0h 30FjqV+7DSfmXekOZUIwBVeuECe3OfkBRLRBFiH0XZ7cs+2aD1XZwIlMXXiLKDtS1t3BSabfu /mQC/vk7Gxz09B8dscT1X1vePhSSVApYvWWA1FPgv+D+kJyfX6twR3QpmwxirO9+xoLR7BpVv 05ulMouqO301+hU1mTpcflsEr7Tub8brIdaXkjVcjXJDKxZhQWlJysV6hq1GEXwbP0AepVQHJ aK8q09SlW5IkrdtZxROgw4LC7Tmahdj0xcMAfkgWK4KKygUvGn4RTyerq+2kVrg7ScrKsQ9En sep7rqZT/s8rR281kxcGMJkatIDyK+MuW+hHZ95TSraS1Ytsh/tI9+q19RtV7Yi5EdEsBedYq SR+1u5ASdvyFMTZPoDgfgaCjYsl+gRlBL0Y774uQRdYBDVUXQ4ANzM52SqHXudXJcdsLL2qnz edfWlRT+yycwXQk5nKFSKp1flhOZNhOY43MCdnwZ04Yy1p14/tXNjqeyXQp3oaH30BeqbvHk7 5mTr2CRhlq24p9JXMY+SZMjhApt1cfmFP4AkQquYouOym62ipeKBleO213d8GCdHHZ4wXj2JH UW/oXljikucanlkRkNz3w7pj3Eng87b6iHoQbYUJhLwKhaN2u0se5P37+jUosmUER8KNeP+jR i26hJjYgxZeWi42AYiXQ231C3V2IZjXwnIZ/P2lW4AoUQow45WA9Jvjm/DBoU5v2CkG6X2b5R CQ02/DpYw0tr1U01HgQozf+aXMUIBQ1vrkkYHqmfdkamT01wttE71DgZLoMjwyP5+PD06P3b8 By76F+CwpG/G8lnF2eFanVBnpqAG4vtFb1JAeVApCzBR8RWTYSapgZI5Hoew= X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37926 Cc: Eric Abrahamsen , 37926@debbugs.gnu.org, dick.r.chiang@gmail.com, Deus Max X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Sat, Nov 02 2019, Andreas Schwab wrote: > On Nov 02 2019, Deus Max wrote: > >> Preserving the one group of the primary selection makes it special > > That's the point of the primary select method. > Not really. Gnus started as a news reader and that was its primary use. The other methods were added later and thus were "secondary". Anyway, besides history, the 'primary-select-method' is arbitrary and creates problems. Today, let's say, my primary provider is GMail, so it is set as the 'primary-select-method'. Next month, it could be another, perhaps switching to ProtonMail. Setting the new provider as the 'primary-select-method' creates all sorts of problems - not to mention breaking all the org-gnus links. Also, having different 'primary-select-method'(s) at home and office, *confuses* org-mode !! The purpose of unifying the select methods, is to treat them all the same and reap the benefits. Otherwise, why change ? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Nov 02 10:10:45 2019 Received: (at 37926) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Nov 2019 14:10:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60991 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iQu72-0004wm-70 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 10:10:44 -0400 Received: from mail-qt1-f169.google.com ([209.85.160.169]:38700) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iQu70-0004wW-2u for 37926@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 10:10:42 -0400 Received: by mail-qt1-f169.google.com with SMTP id t26so17043641qtr.5 for <37926@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 07:10:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=ebWF+W+Mq80OuXBedtWE8skeDGaaJwgCpFg4JPinzrg=; b=FHgF0hCyTUNqfUrWF2/Sf5spaopiAhtuHox5Sb1poMPE2q3x0Am8+B1YpldB8ugMC1 Ho1nsX+bigmnMZWZogbtxQ4NeTKnI3/t2E05x98XXHbwxHomA7Y/1jdQkbBE4c4pWHP/ gE9ZGgLXjwF5G7HZ5FoQx1eKQD6qI2+DWjluB8ATHTBu9vCdRi1n3LM/UM1RFCSpymkk 4f5Tg1C4WW/tnkXK8HxS2KVnNWkJEc3OlWG0r8jgedO6xSA0iO5tJBticV2ObssV1A+F PVp178V9+T7VcYEDh+LkEe5yreajBvf/uv2hrUjMpALofdFhX1eXwo31ecz2amfTA9nr gVQg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=ebWF+W+Mq80OuXBedtWE8skeDGaaJwgCpFg4JPinzrg=; b=As2uUBvpaubLYsX4dvvKIYfsAHU9Da/ScJb9MWYo0/OSZm1ra13yaBniEat4JfCAJG sXTPeU8w4wTjI/GvreIeF2/jMRy/u7jr0UhgQcmRlkk9pJVxVKpbVB6I5JlQx9ohv7wb RvPUp2mWnMpX/0fYDmIcLk4T8SWAGOAD4fs8UaNcfUURtZEGbJAPI58AzyQYhOQkQo62 jwCEpm6UBteuelmVcTrDTyDYCxjsJghht816VGHz08H1nF77hsdH6WrO4hktxvQUwfAa RrErgoYRWDpT8dQ3x4BMSek08TmF3KWihVCrWjsi57fEtPWXnoUp6YR0jleEhzuajzVi UI3g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVDXzpB/xMA56bKaqgLmJKWSE6nzMSSnPwFJ19zO6mhiaf2s61W DlZDW/+hWYtGeWCHlmeQea0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyEG9xVm3PhVy2cZbaVwVE1EN519dp4iUBn2JlVWgy51GiCkbFAPs7yr0nkRb39jxuVrhlhpQ== X-Received: by 2002:a0c:9956:: with SMTP id i22mr858346qvd.215.1572703836557; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 07:10:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (pool-100-33-98-8.nycmny.fios.verizon.net. [100.33.98.8]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p54sm8422074qta.39.2019.11.02.07.10.35 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 02 Nov 2019 07:10:35 -0700 (PDT) From: dick.r.chiang@gmail.com To: Deus Max Subject: Re: bug#37926: [PATCH] Unify Gnus select methods References: <87zhhoh9kn.fsf@dick> <87a79mcmoi.fsf@gnus.org> <87y2x62gnf.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87ftj68kfe.fsf@dellcorei5dias.home> Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 10:10:35 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87ftj68kfe.fsf@dellcorei5dias.home> (Deus Max's message of "Sat, 02 Nov 2019 15:41:41 +0200") Message-ID: <87zhhenzc4.fsf@dick> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37926 Cc: Eric Abrahamsen , 37926@debbugs.gnu.org, Lars Ingebrigtsen X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) One, to reiterate, the patch at hand is a useability improvement, protecting new users from the byzantine distinction of primary/secondary, and preserving the distinction internally for backwards compatibility. Some have argued keeping the internal distinction makes the patch unworthy of the risk, to which I am sympathetic. Two, with mild effort, I could fully eliminate the distinction without user guidance or manually rewriting newsrcs. Such a change exacerbates risk. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Nov 02 10:26:29 2019 Received: (at 37926) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Nov 2019 14:26:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32790 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iQuMH-0005Q2-HQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 10:26:29 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.9]:33031) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iQuMF-0005Ps-7h for 37926@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 10:26:28 -0400 Received: from frontend01.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.182]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4751Zn2xK2z1qvK0; Sat, 2 Nov 2019 15:26:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.6.70]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4751Zn2Xh2z1qqkL; Sat, 2 Nov 2019 15:26:25 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.182]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.6.70]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZASg7aOIfEeB; Sat, 2 Nov 2019 15:26:24 +0100 (CET) X-Auth-Info: Sy4Cai4DFzFj2rsdbhGUMu+ZDRJgQvv3HN97h4K0Q6nWzVXmW7NuptoOIPkggFPH Received: from igel.home (ppp-46-244-177-194.dynamic.mnet-online.de [46.244.177.194]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Sat, 2 Nov 2019 15:26:24 +0100 (CET) Received: by igel.home (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B29A32C01BB; Sat, 2 Nov 2019 15:26:23 +0100 (CET) From: Andreas Schwab To: Deus Max Subject: Re: bug#37926: [PATCH] Unify Gnus select methods References: <87zhhoh9kn.fsf@dick> <877e4r5kc8.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87h83vkyt5.fsf@igel.home> <87zhhea0gq.fsf@dellcorei5dias.home> <87r22qo0w8.fsf@igel.home> <87zhhe74k2.fsf@dellcorei5dias.home> X-Yow: - if it GLISTENS, gobble it!! Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 15:26:23 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87zhhe74k2.fsf@dellcorei5dias.home> (Deus Max's message of "Sat, 02 Nov 2019 16:09:49 +0200") Message-ID: <87mudenyls.fsf@igel.home> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37926 Cc: Eric Abrahamsen , 37926@debbugs.gnu.org, dick.r.chiang@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) On Nov 02 2019, Deus Max wrote: > The purpose of unifying the select methods, is to treat them all the > same and reap the benefits. Otherwise, why change ? Exactly, why change and break the world? You can get what want already now. Andreas. -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510 2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1 "And now for something completely different." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Nov 02 10:52:47 2019 Received: (at 37926) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Nov 2019 14:52:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32827 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iQulj-0008Bd-Gy for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 10:52:47 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.15]:46131) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iQulg-0008BL-NJ for 37926@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 10:52:45 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1572706347; bh=IgJ7T0x9qheakyk8BK3n0I6Kth21mC23zCVBfEU6WGI=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=GIdvyJvij3hVMvHrTtT+zbRO6532alyh0KvUw8panc0ZqfM5mwbR695h46DSzujIv i1fBgYIGlhAbqYE4urstd+Iqk51AXAI05/F4GY3IcJRnB9WpTz1BobDLQy9dl7hAir oWHQi0NUa1DuD06i2fLtfbPUeBZ6Kjn9zCJmvbTo= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from dellcorei5dias ([5.54.212.153]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.184]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MnJlW-1hhidr2c4a-00jIoX; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 15:52:27 +0100 From: Deus Max To: dick.r.chiang@gmail.com Subject: Re: bug#37926: [PATCH] Unify Gnus select methods References: <87zhhoh9kn.fsf@dick> <87a79mcmoi.fsf@gnus.org> <87y2x62gnf.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87ftj68kfe.fsf@dellcorei5dias.home> <87zhhenzc4.fsf@dick> Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 16:52:19 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87zhhenzc4.fsf@dick> (dick r. chiang's message of "Sat, 02 Nov 2019 10:10:35 -0400") Message-ID: <87ftj672l8.fsf@dellcorei5dias.home> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:fEmWrtRyY4ugy9gf7cAuiH6ZI4hDwlVYLVTgcaENcbP1b+aPNfS 6bPitHqfY/hohDuoWwRWZ6sibNcv5vrh+9gSShmM2mAeoZXBW7zVnHfRgJKpHG9FM1KQlWS 72zyCD4oF8bxgi8SCw3Fv3TddVDzpTkY+tyucPbh6fecrXGIJOsZx0LVX7FSdeAgtVmNW5E Ww3Q54cakWPM8w04Eqi4Q== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:CauIl9oy5qM=:Rj7qNllp/Hl4fuv7WQA6cD GCZwX85nSnBl3LRBsD7OXnqN+w705DoohmNpdx1V89vPeOs7cAVTuZ6B9JLlmMv/YrJjeay4S VnyqwsLTgKsRUSaux5RS/XILFSlq4lXZSLlC83gz7Dbn02X7M3NOtTgj08b7/1ebBHo5/sIwS QcHDMrYkWlMVNyHO3LM+bZvWdLEu8zij4q20iC04qozFR++Chc7X3oKvqbxt2asFOfo828ouR goEuPTJdO/vIcspWdVIGgpsdnLcvtJJte6M1BFuE/9ZEHf/6to0Ba/AujkxJjn6SEYuBoRaYN RWcGY7WYoXaUThVz5769zPWdBIM1EqPykuDgUCKH0QcTd0lHYe/oWx4x6s4R63j9QEmW5Nz5U stgkeomjz8Ud3H6UMVmhQz1ylwc0EkkykrOHHR65qcufBTzjqExhzDSQpBDZIokDyV7xsRJUu m9LacqnM5Ygsi8wnQHZxPE9GE9vKPJIMnUW580sFu/c3zV10gljPymCTRh5ei70Qg4xpdahu0 lz+cuNezC9NMaI3CpAZsRo4Mogrskx+AAgn2owf1+0YsKsdP/uyFXCnn8xz4y2Z9uU7mhXDEN TFP7D940c3o3OPBNz6l34bMYdgNvQNjho95Vjn60xKn8g87iqBrth/s6uKicMusvbg+jPfcFC tacd4Jiuubj1bo3kdJ2xLUexeicu5pvsEf0tB05GBg+rHhmzCpT4JpjsNolLp0poC2FRNDYZV npfxOQMRGy8ZKEk4jKCX7SWf/3P6713UxiROlZ4jU5xf47nIs4WcC/nXLY0yorAgZFsJs+yhZ +6nSeBcAMW3lrTPxPwRrlbi1YodA79UFfhcbLjL363MvNs9ar1AEx0XXXMZqy1jSR9Erkp4rc 03wNlt93tE1bjFJg4snN1jV4GMNNTmqziHfJbpsoU1YUeo4M43OUC3uhSGtB1iPlbeq2AIlkm J2yR7gJSubO8HGLMuuWNq9VEZg/HM4vZOCkCxNBdTOsl/7alkSKRmG9DTU/fUbKlBDHKkAQMy +a/WVc0nJo9HDjji+mJ5O4zD0x7CDgi+EbSReeE+zNT6YM/06nh3N+yNqMp6n8wcG1JhRORxD UGa9p0lEoR1sCb+Z2D8JQgODITsvvt0VT+1NcjhbNIIWpzZB5wtuyMmHxU1S1dZyXZ2o7bzIf g6SPhfqaBtxRflv52yusWqLEF2tnSWUdAu9RLayKqTGLriqC2JzlRukrtk2v0tEgztsO/o7ma vc28Yd/Ajgq4CW5TD7Rk4LEHU39GxPmTwJvKb9GMVLfKdCv686aZrP32cRYA= X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37926 Cc: Eric Abrahamsen , 37926@debbugs.gnu.org, Lars Ingebrigtsen , Deus Max X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Sat, Nov 02 2019, dick.r.chiang@gmail.com wrote: > One, to reiterate, the patch at hand is a useability improvement, protecting new users from > the byzantine distinction of primary/secondary, and preserving the distinction > internally for backwards compatibility. Some have argued keeping the internal > distinction makes the patch unworthy of the risk, to which I am sympathetic. > You agree it is a usability improvement and that the current behaviour is a byzantine distinction. Sometimes to move forward, you have to break continuity. Especially with byzantine practises, old OSes, etc., etc. > Two, with mild effort, I could fully eliminate the distinction without user > guidance or manually rewriting newsrcs. Such a change exacerbates risk. Which is probably not mild. As you will discover from the many-many bugs that follow. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Nov 02 17:10:51 2019 Received: (at 37926) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Nov 2019 21:10:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33147 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iR0fb-0007vg-2t for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 17:10:51 -0400 Received: from ericabrahamsen.net ([52.70.2.18]:59136 helo=mail.ericabrahamsen.net) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iR0fY-0007vR-C1 for 37926@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 17:10:48 -0400 Received: from localhost (c-73-254-86-141.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [73.254.86.141]) (Authenticated sender: eric@ericabrahamsen.net) by mail.ericabrahamsen.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3C17DFA089; Sat, 2 Nov 2019 21:10:42 +0000 (UTC) From: Eric Abrahamsen To: Deus Max Subject: Re: bug#37926: [PATCH] Unify Gnus select methods References: <87zhhoh9kn.fsf@dick> <87a79mcmoi.fsf@gnus.org> <87y2x62gnf.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87ftj68kfe.fsf@dellcorei5dias.home> <87zhhenzc4.fsf@dick> <87ftj672l8.fsf@dellcorei5dias.home> Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 14:10:40 -0700 In-Reply-To: <87ftj672l8.fsf@dellcorei5dias.home> (Deus Max's message of "Sat, 02 Nov 2019 16:52:19 +0200") Message-ID: <87ftj6j86n.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37926 Cc: 37926@debbugs.gnu.org, Lars Ingebrigtsen , dick.r.chiang@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) On 11/02/19 16:52 PM, Deus Max wrote: > On Sat, Nov 02 2019, dick.r.chiang@gmail.com wrote: > >> One, to reiterate, the patch at hand is a useability improvement, protecting new users from >> the byzantine distinction of primary/secondary, and preserving the distinction >> internally for backwards compatibility. Some have argued keeping the internal >> distinction makes the patch unworthy of the risk, to which I am sympathetic. >> > You agree it is a usability improvement and that the current behaviour is > a byzantine distinction. > Sometimes to move forward, you have to break continuity. > Especially with byzantine practises, old OSes, etc., etc. > >> Two, with mild effort, I could fully eliminate the distinction without user >> guidance or manually rewriting newsrcs. Such a change exacerbates risk. > > Which is probably not mild. As you will discover from the many-many bugs > that follow. A while ago I worked on a patch that removed the distinction altogether. I just assumed that the first method in `gnus-select-methods' should be treated specially, and all unprefixed groups were assigned to that method at load time. That part wasn't hard. Then each method had a "display prefix" parameter, which defaulted to the name of the method except for the first method, where it defaulted to the empty string. Group names stayed fully prefixed everywhere in the system, and were only displayed differently. I was actually happier with getting rid of the is-the-group-name-prefixed-or-not logic all over Gnus than I was with reducing user confusion with two select method options. But there's a lot of very fundamental code that wants `guns-select-method' to be set, and I eventually got bogged down with that. I still think it's worth doing, though. Eric From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Nov 17 04:56:11 2019 Received: (at 37926) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Nov 2019 09:56:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40345 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iWHHu-0001F6-Vq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2019 04:56:11 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:45712) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iWHHt-0001Es-CM for 37926@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2019 04:56:09 -0500 Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=marnie) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1iWHHl-0005X5-Ef; Sun, 17 Nov 2019 10:56:03 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: dick.r.chiang@gmail.com Subject: Re: bug#37926: [PATCH] Unify Gnus select methods References: <87zhhoh9kn.fsf@dick> <87a79mcmoi.fsf@gnus.org> <87h83tsew0.fsf@dick> <87imo9azh4.fsf@gnus.org> <87sgndht6t.fsf@dick> <878sp5arwy.fsf@gnus.org> <87r22w2ij7.fsf@dick> <87bltz21w4.fsf@gnus.org> <87h83r4iiq.fsf@dick> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2019 10:56:00 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87h83r4iiq.fsf@dick> (dick r. chiang's message of "Tue, 29 Oct 2019 12:35:09 -0400") Message-ID: <87eey6968f.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: dick.r.chiang@gmail.com writes: > The patch, rather opinionatedly, instructs new users to specify their backends > via a single defcustom `gnus-select-methods`. And I don't think that'll fly -- people has to be able to just setq stuff in their .gnus files. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: ingebrigtsen.no] -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 37926 Cc: 37926@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) dick.r.chiang@gmail.com writes: > The patch, rather opinionatedly, instructs new users to specify their backends > via a single defcustom `gnus-select-methods`. And I don't think that'll fly -- people has to be able to just setq stuff in their .gnus files. So while the patch is a valiant effort, I don't think it really solves any problems -- it just tries to wallpaper over the problems, but the wall is full of holes and I think the result is even more confusing that what we have today. So I'm not applying this and I'm closing this bug report. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Nov 17 04:56:19 2019 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Nov 2019 09:56:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40348 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iWHI3-0001FU-8I for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2019 04:56:19 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:45726) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iWHI1-0001FF-Ai for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2019 04:56:17 -0500 Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=marnie) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1iWHHt-0005XF-OD for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2019 10:56:11 +0100 Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2019 10:56:09 +0100 Message-Id: <87d0dq9686.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #37926 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 37926 wontfix close 37926 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 37926 wontfix close 37926 quit From unknown Fri Aug 15 15:33:57 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2019 12:24:06 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator