From unknown Fri Jun 20 20:12:31 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#37627: Document how to bypass the Easy Customization interface Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?=E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC?= Dan Jacobson Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2019 04:32:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 37627 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 37627@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.157024990820330 (code B ref -1); Sat, 05 Oct 2019 04:32:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Oct 2019 04:31:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43605 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iGbjP-0005Hp-RG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 05 Oct 2019 00:31:48 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:39755) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iGbjM-0005Hg-KK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 05 Oct 2019 00:31:46 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42651) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iGbjL-0003kK-6p for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Oct 2019 00:31:44 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,DATE_IN_PAST_03_06, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iGbjJ-0001I0-LB for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Oct 2019 00:31:42 -0400 Received: from buffalo.birch.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.209.24]:16173) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iGbjJ-0001F9-1I for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Oct 2019 00:31:41 -0400 X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 370B82166C for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2019 04:31:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a33.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-171-201.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.171.201]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id C65EC20E84 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2019 04:31:38 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a33.g.dreamhost.com ([TEMPUNAVAIL]. [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.18.3); Sat, 05 Oct 2019 04:31:39 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Average-Rock: 1ea979eb066db532_1570249899024_113070464 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1570249899024:1893773603 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1570249899024 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a33.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a33.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48D428021D for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2019 21:31:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=jidanni.org; h=from:to :subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; s=jidanni.org; bh=eSPsxsKvi1rOgNP7bt C5jnKt3zA=; b=YVleN+kyPEaC6xTUzyp4fZu06RL28ZY8YRtDHlrs4mjmA59Dfy lp4t61V2mUyTXGpycqrDRmc0JlIIoLlFNLn1PZaIm1r4smPNTf6/ET2o+W6GEaZb zC8lLv+6+/ytrnMDfwJgzxY0Kp/ZjwSywzAqraP5n8O7e5y/NTj518SMo= Received: from jidanni.org (220-140-4-165.dynamic-ip.hinet.net [220.140.4.165]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jidanni@jidanni.org) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a33.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7CB9380207 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2019 21:31:32 -0700 (PDT) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a33 From: =?UTF-8?Q?=E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC?= Dan Jacobson Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2019 07:55:11 +0800 Message-ID: <87muegjcbk.5.fsf@jidanni.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: 0 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedufedrhedvgdekhecutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggvpdfftffgtefojffquffvnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhephffvufffkfggtgfgsehtkeertddttdejnecuhfhrohhmpejnnjjnucffrghnucflrggtohgsshhonhcuoehjihgurghnnhhisehjihgurghnnhhirdhorhhgqeenucfkphepvddvtddrudegtddrgedrudeiheenucfrrghrrghmpehmohguvgepshhmthhppdhhvghlohepjhhiuggrnhhnihdrohhrghdpihhnvghtpedvvddtrddugedtrdegrdduieehpdhrvghtuhhrnhdqphgrthhhpeeprehuthhfqdekreeureehiehmpfehnfhiheehsgevkeerpecuffgrnhculfgrtghosghsohhnuceojhhiuggrnhhnihesjhhiuggrnhhnihdrohhrgheqpdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepjhhiuggrnhhnihesjhhiuggrnhhnihdrohhrghdpnhhrtghpthhtohepsghughdqghhnuhdqvghmrggtshesghhnuhdrohhrghenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedu Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 23.83.209.24 X-Spam-Score: -0.3 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) On (info "(emacs) Easy Customization") we read ... To browse and alter settings (both variables and faces), type =E2=80= =98M-x customize=E2=80=99. This creates a =E2=80=9Ccustomization buffer=E2=80= =9D, which lets you navigate through a logically organized list of settings, edit and set their values, and save them permanently. Please add: However certain older users are bad at using interfaces to set variables and just want to set them the old fashioned way by hand with setq in their .emacs file. It gives them more feelings of control. For them, please see the final section below. And to * Menu: * Customization Groups:: How settings are classified. * Browsing Custom:: Browsing and searching for settings. * Changing a Variable:: How to edit an option=E2=80=99s value and se= t the option. * Saving Customizations:: Saving customizations for future Emacs sessi= ons. * Face Customization:: How to edit the attributes of a face. * Specific Customization:: Customizing specific settings or groups. * Custom Themes:: Collections of customization settings. * Creating Custom Themes:: How to create a new custom theme. Please add * Setting via .emacs:: Bypassing the Customization Interface And in that section say: Let's say you see in some .el file (defvar csv-comment-start nil "String that starts a comment line, or nil if no comment syntax. Such comment lines are ignored by CSV mode commands. This variable is buffer local\; its default value is that of `csv-comment-start-default'. It is set by the function `csv-set-comment-start' -- do not set it directly!") (make-variable-buffer-local 'csv-comment-start) (defcustom csv-comment-start-default "#" "String that starts a comment line, or nil if no comment syntax. Such comment lines are ignored by CSV mode commands. Default value of buffer-local variable `csv-comment-start'. Changing this variable does not affect any existing CSV mode buffer." :type '(choice (const :tag "None" nil) string) :set (lambda (variable value) (custom-set-default variable value) (setq-default csv-comment-start value))) And we simply want to set the comment start to nil in our .emacs. But we are scared by the warning about not setting it directly, and we *do not want to use the "customization interface" to set it, we just want to set it in our .emacs with a single setq or whatever line*. Well no reason for despair. In your .emacs simply do (setq csv-comment-start-default nil) So it turns out whenever you see a "defcustom", you can just use setq to set it in your .emacs, without needing help from the Customization Interface if you don't want it. From unknown Fri Jun 20 20:12:31 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#37627: Document how to bypass the Easy Customization interface Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2019 07:16:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 37627 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: =?UTF-8?Q?=E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC?= Dan Jacobson Cc: 37627@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 37627-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B37627.15702597323316 (code B ref 37627); Sat, 05 Oct 2019 07:16:01 +0000 Received: (at 37627) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Oct 2019 07:15:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43629 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iGeHs-0000rK-F0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 05 Oct 2019 03:15:32 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:43629) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iGeHq-0000r3-79; Sat, 05 Oct 2019 03:15:30 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:35060) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iGeHk-0006hI-QH; Sat, 05 Oct 2019 03:15:24 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2863 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1iGeHk-0001Tf-8f; Sat, 05 Oct 2019 03:15:24 -0400 Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2019 10:15:14 +0300 Message-Id: <834l0n64u5.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <87muegjcbk.5.fsf@jidanni.org> References: <87muegjcbk.5.fsf@jidanni.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) tags 37627 notabug wontfix close 37627 thanks > From: 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson > > Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2019 07:55:11 +0800 > > On (info "(emacs) Easy Customization") we read > > ... > > To browse and alter settings (both variables and faces), type ‘M-x > customize’. This creates a “customization buffer”, which lets you > navigate through a logically organized list of settings, edit and set > their values, and save them permanently. > > Please add: > > However certain older users are bad at using interfaces to set > variables and just want to set them the old fashioned way by hand > with setq in their .emacs file. It gives them more feelings of > control. For them, please see the final section below. Sorry, no. We do want users to use this interface, and those "old users" already know how to use setq. I'm therefore closing this bug report. From unknown Fri Jun 20 20:12:31 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#37627: Document how to bypass the Easy Customization interface Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2019 13:22:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 37627 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix notabug To: =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=A7=C2=A9=C2=8D=C3=A4=C2=B8=C2=B9=C3=A5=C2=B0=C2=BC?= Dan Jacobson Cc: 37627@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 37627-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B37627.157028172115283 (code B ref 37627); Sat, 05 Oct 2019 13:22:02 +0000 Received: (at 37627) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Oct 2019 13:22:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43924 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iGk0X-0003yR-AU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 05 Oct 2019 09:22:01 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:49225) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iGk0V-0003yD-4y for 37627@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 05 Oct 2019 09:21:59 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:39542) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iGk0P-0006hv-VY; Sat, 05 Oct 2019 09:21:54 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1iGk0N-0005DV-3G; Sat, 05 Oct 2019 09:21:51 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: <87muegjcbk.5.fsf@jidanni.org> References: <87muegjcbk.5.fsf@jidanni.org> Message-Id: Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2019 09:21:51 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > However certain older users are bad at using interfaces to set > variables and just want to set them the old fashioned way by hand > with setq in their .emacs file. It gives them more feelings of > control. For them, please see the final section below. The purpose is a good one, but (speaking as one of those users) I find it condescending. I suggest these words instead: Some users prefer to write code in @file{.emacs} to set these variables, perhaps because they are already accustomed to that method, or perhaps because they would rather get ``closer to the metal.'' For instructions, see the final section below. -- Dr Richard Stallman Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Fri Jun 20 20:12:31 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#37627: Document how to bypass the Easy Customization interface In-Reply-To: <87muegjcbk.5.fsf@jidanni.org> Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?=E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC?= Dan Jacobson Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2019 15:12:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 37627 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix notabug To: Richard Stallman Cc: 37627@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 37627-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B37627.15702882721687 (code B ref 37627); Sat, 05 Oct 2019 15:12:02 +0000 Received: (at 37627) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Oct 2019 15:11:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45020 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iGliC-0000R8-Gm for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 05 Oct 2019 11:11:12 -0400 Received: from cadetblue.birch.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.209.28]:45678) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iGli9-0000Qz-KV for 37627@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 05 Oct 2019 11:11:10 -0400 X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55B35580FD1; Sat, 5 Oct 2019 15:11:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a47.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-45-148.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.45.148]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id A6070580A1E; Sat, 5 Oct 2019 15:11:07 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a47.g.dreamhost.com ([TEMPUNAVAIL]. [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.18.3); Sat, 05 Oct 2019 15:11:08 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Exultant-Fumbling: 23ab64977836ff15_1570288268153_1088757661 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1570288268153:3830081424 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1570288268152 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a47.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a47.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61E9F81EE1; Sat, 5 Oct 2019 08:11:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=jidanni.org; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type; s=jidanni.org; bh=d3l/LqNV4TuLw9ZJMXJUCnlcg60=; b=BK4NMP4GWEvUT 2JV96hglk8Yo/j1nsnu71HTwKxif3IT0G6pHo38qrUfHSgnSqI5bRCDBsRKsibpP IDbt+qRc5vvC8TxFbUIk7a9U/Rqry3eKPvDSMzvAgsmhnJ9OR0YJOCZ3u8JD6FBk PSwgKgALYNJIsP+dCP4W3jGlUnGLag= Received: from jidanni.org (114-41-16-62.dynamic-ip.hinet.net [114.41.16.62]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jidanni@jidanni.org) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a47.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C03EA81866; Sat, 5 Oct 2019 08:11:01 -0700 (PDT) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a47 From: =?UTF-8?Q?=E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC?= Dan Jacobson References: <87muegjcbk.5.fsf@jidanni.org> Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2019 23:10:58 +0800 Message-ID: <87eezrut19.8.fsf@jidanni.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: 0 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedufedrheefgdekjecutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggvpdfftffgtefojffquffvnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhephffvufhffffkgggtsehttdertddttdejnecuhfhrohhmpejnnjjnucffrghnucflrggtohgsshhonhcuoehjihgurghnnhhisehjihgurghnnhhirdhorhhgqeenucfkphepuddugedrgedurdduiedriedvnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhhouggvpehsmhhtphdphhgvlhhopehjihgurghnnhhirdhorhhgpdhinhgvthepuddugedrgedurdduiedriedvpdhrvghtuhhrnhdqphgrthhhpeeprehuthhfqdekreeureehiehmpfehnfhiheehsgevkeerpecuffgrnhculfgrtghosghsohhnuceojhhiuggrnhhnihesjhhiuggrnhhnihdrohhrgheqpdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepjhhiuggrnhhnihesjhhiuggrnhhnihdrohhrghdpnhhrtghpthhtohepfeejiedvjeesuggvsggsuhhgshdrghhnuhdrohhrghenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedt X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> "RMS" == Richard Stallman writes: RMS> The purpose is a good one, but (speaking as one of those users) I find RMS> it condescending. I suggest these words instead: RMS> Some users prefer to write code in @file{.emacs} to set these RMS> variables, perhaps because they are already accustomed to that method, RMS> or perhaps because they would rather get ``closer to the metal.'' For RMS> instructions, see the final section below. Bingo! Also only .emacs is guaranteed to be thankfully not in a constant fight about who is editing it. (Won that battle.) Yup, one's changes will be still there not tampered with. Plus I am not a six-year old, so I don't want to be *forced* to use a "helpful interface" (which actually just adds a layer of confusion for me.) And I actually don't really know how to bypass it. I just guessed. So please document it. "For users who hate the helpful interface." Thanks. From unknown Fri Jun 20 20:12:31 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#37627: Document how to bypass the Easy Customization interface Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2019 16:02:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 37627 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix notabug To: =?UTF-8?Q?=E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC?= Dan Jacobson Cc: 37627@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 37627-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B37627.15702912936284 (code B ref 37627); Sat, 05 Oct 2019 16:02:03 +0000 Received: (at 37627) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Oct 2019 16:01:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45048 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iGmUv-0001dI-8f for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 05 Oct 2019 12:01:33 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:38630) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iGmUt-0001d0-ME for 37627@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 05 Oct 2019 12:01:32 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:42375) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iGmUo-00042R-Dc; Sat, 05 Oct 2019 12:01:26 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4071 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1iGmUg-0004RG-Vs; Sat, 05 Oct 2019 12:01:19 -0400 Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2019 19:01:09 +0300 Message-Id: <835zl341x6.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <87eezrut19.8.fsf@jidanni.org> References: <87muegjcbk.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <87eezrut19.8.fsf@jidanni.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=shift_jis Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: ϒO Dan Jacobson > > Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2019 23:10:58 +0800 > Cc: 37627@debbugs.gnu.org > > I don't want to be *forced* to use a "helpful interface" Nothing the manual says forces you to do anything. The manual is written to _help_ you get things done. If what it says doesn't help in your case, just ignore what it says. From unknown Fri Jun 20 20:12:31 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#37627: Document how to bypass the Easy Customization interface In-Reply-To: <87muegjcbk.5.fsf@jidanni.org> Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?=E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC?= Dan Jacobson Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2019 06:56:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 37627 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix notabug To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 37627@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 37627-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B37627.157043134414925 (code B ref 37627); Mon, 07 Oct 2019 06:56:01 +0000 Received: (at 37627) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Oct 2019 06:55:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47312 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iHMvo-0003sf-8T for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Oct 2019 02:55:44 -0400 Received: from antelope.elm.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.212.4]:24955) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iHMvm-0003sW-7Q for 37627@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Oct 2019 02:55:42 -0400 X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FACD5A0DAE; Mon, 7 Oct 2019 06:55:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a7.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-14-192.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.14.192]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 1D66A5A0BC4; Mon, 7 Oct 2019 06:55:40 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a7.g.dreamhost.com ([TEMPUNAVAIL]. [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.18.3); Mon, 07 Oct 2019 06:55:40 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Eyes-Snatch: 2e50e1b709d8a2e7_1570431340387_3631641181 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1570431340387:2065069099 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1570431340386 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a7.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a7.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5EE68158C; Sun, 6 Oct 2019 23:55:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=jidanni.org; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type; s=jidanni.org; bh=D68jnG6W/ifML59jB6yUXG6jhcI=; b=cotv8Xv5tm9Hf /mPPHxOZWkJTeisTcRVUm3sEbYeaVHwSOtQFGX1mPrfZGQe4lOkW6uURPYRHTAbo OumV5+BTuSbU0idjbScsGvAm/t+p+NxcJalVFX7SeZj3RKcoCgRRt0A+ikHXC+cR 1y/C+SWBx8nc9rmJKI+TTnDnjkzm3Y= Received: from jidanni.org (114-41-31-164.dynamic-ip.hinet.net [114.41.31.164]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jidanni@jidanni.org) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a7.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 31D0781586; Sun, 6 Oct 2019 23:55:38 -0700 (PDT) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a7 From: =?UTF-8?Q?=E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC?= Dan Jacobson References: <87muegjcbk.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <87eezrut19.8.fsf@jidanni.org> <835zl341x6.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2019 14:55:35 +0800 Message-ID: <87y2xxcae0.8.fsf@jidanni.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: -100 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedufedrheeigdduudeiucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuggftfghnshhusghstghrihgsvgdpffftgfetoffjqffuvfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmnecujfgurhephffvufhffffkgggtsehttdertddttdejnecuhfhrohhmpejnnjjnucffrghnucflrggtohgsshhonhcuoehjihgurghnnhhisehjihgurghnnhhirdhorhhgqeenucffohhmrghinhephihouhhtuhgsvgdrtghomhenucfkphepuddugedrgedurdefuddrudeigeenucfrrghrrghmpehmohguvgepshhmthhppdhhvghlohepjhhiuggrnhhnihdrohhrghdpihhnvghtpeduudegrdeguddrfedurdduieegpdhrvghtuhhrnhdqphgrthhhpeeprehuthhfqdekreeureehiehmpfehnfhiheehsgevkeerpecuffgrnhculfgrtghosghsohhnuceojhhiuggrnhhnihesjhhiuggrnhhnihdrohhrgheqpdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepjhhiuggrnhhnihesjhhiuggrnhhnihdrohhrghdpnhhrtghpthhtohepfeejiedvjeesuggvsggsuhhgshdrghhnuhdrohhrghenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedt X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Fine. "Proprietary interface with no documentation forthcoming on how to bypass." "My mistake" (PeeWee Herman) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVKsd8z6scw